The People, Process, & Progress Podcast - From the GWOT to Giving Back: How Clay Surratt Builds Others Through Martial Arts

Episode Date: February 14, 2026

In this episode of People, Process, Progress, From the GWOT to Giving Back: How Clay Surratt Builds Others Through Martial Arts, host Kevin Pannell sits down with Clay Surratt, the founder of Guerrilla ATX. Together, they explore the transition from military service to civilian life and how the "mission" doesn't end when the uniform comes off—it just changes shape.Clay opens up about his journey from joining the Army in the wake of 9/11 to finding a new calling in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ). He shares how he uses martial arts as a restorative practice to build men up physically, mentally, and spiritually, creating a community where veterans and civilians alike can sharpen one another.Resources mentioned:Connect with Clay Surratt:Website: Guerrilla ATXInstagram: @conscious.claySupport the Mission:Curtis Bartlett Fitness: Learn MoreVeteran Bushido Brotherhood: Support Veterans

Hey everybody, it's Kevin Pennell, who with Clay Surat. We are People Process Progress of the New River Valley. We're in Gailax, Virginia at the Curtis Bartlett Fitness Center. Today we're going to talk to Clay, who is a veteran, Jiu-Jitsu Blackbought, MMA fighter, trainer, a lot more veteran, which we'll get into and learn more about Clay. So he's the second person that I met through Team Man in Brazilian Jitsu that we're going to talk about, learn a lot more about him. So thank you very much for coming, for watching, listening, sharing this.

Thank you, Clay, for your. time. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for coming all the way down here. You bet. You bet. Yeah, we were talking earlier. So we're in Gailax, Virginia. I'm in Blacksburg, Virginia. So a little over an hour to here. And as you said, you've been making that track up to Team Manning for quite a few years now. Yeah, I mean, it's worth it. You know, Tim, and that whole environment, it's just a, it's a good environment to be in. So when I first started and you looked in the area, there's really nowhere to go that is as good or has the quality that Team Manon does. So. Right. Yeah, worth the drive. Worth the drive. Right on. Well, cool. Yeah, let's let folks know where you're from. Take us up to when you join the Army and then I'm sure that'll spark a whole bunch of conversations as well. But let us know, did you grow up in Galax or where'd you grow up?

Yeah, so, you know, a little history. My father was a Marine. He met my mother in California. And so they slowly made their way from California to North Carolina. And then with me, the, the, the, the, last child we moved here this is where my my father's family's from okay um so yep i've born and raised in gay lax um you know played basketball was you know probably the a latchkey kid yeah i was a i was a little i was a little handful uh sam though they're only here probably tell you he's he's known me since i was a young kid him and his son curtis were in my life for a a long period of time. But yeah, grew up here. My brother joined the military. My brother Kyle and then my brother Frankie joined and then my brother Clinton joined the Air Force. Wow. And then I was like, well, 9-11, let's go get some. Let's go see what's going on out there and serve the country.

And that's, I did that about 2007. Okay. Yeah. Join the Army. And how long were you in for? seven and a half I did some reserve time when I got back from Afghanistan I decided that I'd seen everything I wanted to yeah in the in the military so I got out did a little reserve time because you know there's that eight year period where they can call you back right so I wanted to serve that that out so I did you know sometime in the reserves I wasn't really present for that you know I got back from Afghanistan I was just like I'm not I'm not doing motor pole duty in the reserves So probably not the right answer. But so overall finished out that time and then just tried to find my my way in the civilian world transitioning out of that time period from the military to to civilian life. Yeah, it's interesting that conversation you have on your way out where they're like, well, you know, you still owe this and we can call it. And you're like, cool. I don't think I'll show up every weekend or one weekend a month or whatever, you know, whatever. But yeah, that's a tough one.

Tough one when you get out. Yeah, yeah. You know, you definitely, you know, the GWAT time period, there's a lot of veterans that can probably understand where I'm coming from is you felt like a little bit like something was off during that time period. What you were there for wasn't really what you were there for. Right. But at the end of the day, despite it all, no matter, you know, the politics and all that, you do something that is greater than. in yourself, which is what you hear all the time. Sure. But you also have some of the best memories with the people that you serve with. So whatever the greater scheme was, it's really kind of a small part of the experience of the brothers and the people and the experiences that you have when you serve.

More about that left and right of your person and who you're putting in work with. Yeah, that cliche. you know the black hop down yeah yeah it's about the guy of my left and my right right but you know it really truth to it yeah yeah it really is and you know that's why i guess that that cliche is famous in a sense right is because there is some value to it but you know i wouldn't take any of it back you know no matter you know i'm sure some people would say oh you just you just did whatever the government wanted you to this and that but you know i wouldn't take it back and i think all young men in some way or another want to know what it would be like to serve in combat.

Right. And that's, you know, I think that's natural. And that's, you know, honestly, what's, you know, kind of took me towards the MMA coaching and Jitsu and Mori Thai is that same kind of mentality and brotherhood can only be replicated in the civilian world, in my opinion, in that kind of environment. the MMA and the combat sports world. So I hope that some of my experience, you know, translates over to coaching in that way. Yeah, that's a great point. And that's actually something I was thinking about on the way down here. So I was a pre-GWAT, like peacetime guy. Like, what do we do? I was a corpsman working critical care. Saw dead people was not shot at, which I'm not heartbroken over. But to your point, you think about, okay, what would I have done,

could have done, should have done this, like change it, add more time. But to your point, folks that have put in no service or wonder or or not wonder but are like I would just do this and have no idea what you would actually do you know whether it's uh someone that's injured someone that's shooting out is your buddy that's got shot you know or something like that that's a huge perspective and for me I think I like I'm on the fence of like mandatory service versus you know something for the for the benefits of it probably a much different perspective on you know a couple decades of combat and then your time of combat as well of whether you think that our young men or women should know like hey everyone's going to do a year or not do you have any any thoughts on

that on kind of like a mandatory service type thing for american youth oh yeah i mean i think i think that having the option is good um of being able to choose whether or not because it's it's not for everyone right um and you know that's and that's fine right like it's it's good But at the same time, you know, especially now where the currency is attention and, you know, I have teenage boys and it's really hard to fight against the attention, right? Getting their attention and having them want to do something bigger than the small town of Gaelax. So, you know, some kind of mandatory service would would help a lot of people, I believe, but simultaneously. You know, you don't want someone there in the barracks or on your side that like forced to be there.

Doesn't really want to be there all. So, you know, maybe for non-combat roles, but I just think it's just such a tricky issue that it would be hard to say that like, yes, I would, you know, prefer mandatory service. But I think that as a young person, if you don't know exactly what it is or, or you or have an idea of where you want to go in life. Right. It's definitely a good option because it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily mean like go to combat, go be an infantryman like I was.

It could be just to get a technical career, see the world, get the GI Bill, and then decide like, okay, where do I want to go? Because as you and I know, you're older than I am, but I'm almost 40, four years. Yeah. At 18 after school. that's that's a blink of an eye yeah for sure that's a blink of an eye go do something that's uncomfortable you know and and take some chances so that's kind of my thoughts on that whole mandatory service aspect of it's good point yeah I was uh I think when I went in I was uh volunteer firefighting delivering

car parts and working out of that and I was like then I saw the movie Navy Seals and I was like oh man I'm gonna go swim and realize I don't like the water as much as I thought it was like all right but but to your point what you get out of it and then realize oh because I used the GI Bill and college fund and all that and get your degree and it helps and and you're doing something hard you either love it or you don't i really like to be in a corpsman working critical care that kind of stuff and i don't do that any more directly but now i'm in health care IT and the perspective and to your point like my college was that it wasn't like going to college and you know frat parties and all that kind of stuff and the bonds i have with those folks uh some folks are like why do you like go to

reunions and stuff i was like my my friends i served with more so in college a different perspective but yeah, you know, and the bond you talk about, you know, I do morning jiu-sit-tuce-class mostly, and you're like struggling with people and your ups and downs, and it was awesome, it was a horrible day and this kind of stuff like that. How did you bridge that then? Did you start training when you were deployed, when you were overseas in like jihitsu or stand-up or had you had any of that training before you joined the Army? Yeah.

So my, the way I got into is actually kind of a funny story. So I was in Missoule and I was just walking around the Fob, the forward operating base, so large base, you know, not the outposts that we had in Afghanistan. And we were trying to get a good picture of Missoules. If you've ever been there, it's like, you know, this old, collat-looking city that just goes and goes and goes and goes. So we're like, me and my buddy, we're trying to get a good picture. And we end up walking onto the Special Forces area of the base. And a guy came out with his four-wheeler and they come over there like, what are you doing? They take our camera.

And we're like, oh, we're just dumb privates. You know, we have no idea what we just did. We walked onto the SF base. But those guys then later, we actually seen them in the, what's called the MWR, the wellness and recreation center there and they were on the side doing jih Tijitsu and so they recognized me and they were like hey come over here and let us let us let us let us like wrestle with you let us roll with you and I was just like okay you know I'm a young man let's go yeah let's figure this out and you just they just wrecked us right they just owned us good guys though I mean they didn't like

hurt us or anything but that's when I was like what is this like what are you guys doing And, you know, the guy was really kind, and he kind of explained what Jiu-Jitsu was and all that. And then so from then on, from that deployment on, I had continued into Jiu-Jitsu. I fought at Fort Hood and at Fort Bliss in the like post-combatives tournament. Oh, wow. And that was like the bulk of my experience. Okay. I never stopped training.

And you can look online now they have these these combative tournaments, which when I was in, it was really interesting. and you would do a day, so it was like a three-day endeavor. And day one was just jujitsu. And so if you win, you go on. Day two was kind of like the Valley Tudow where you can open palm hit on the ground. And then if you won that and you were top three, that Friday, the following Friday, you would have a full like cage MMA fight. Wow.

Yeah, and that was just, you know, during that time, it wasn't. like it is now. It wasn't about being this prize fighter or Connor McGregor or being, you know, this, this figure that everyone knows. It was just kind of, I think it was a brilliant way for these units to prepare us for combat. Right. You know, even if you're not fighting the camaraderie of the Friday night, like, fights was just a really, really intelligent way to, I think, build that that closeness with the units and with the soldiers. So that's when I started. And I've never,

I've never stopped. I've never looked back. So I did it all. MMA, kickboxing, boxing, all of it. That was kind of my...

It is interesting. Escalation of CFOs can handle, quote, just grappling, which is hard enough. And then to your point, now we've got some strikes in there. And then,

okay, if you make it through that, now it's, it's go time, right? Yeah. For everything. The whole shabang, lights, smoke coming out, everybody's.

You know, I think I have one YouTube video where one of my guys in the unit took a video of one of one of the many fights. But again, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't doing it thinking like I'm going to, I'm going to go to the U.S. Like a career. It was just like, it was honestly, it got me out of PT in the morning. Yeah, because I could go train with the combatives team. Oh, cool.

Like arguably twice as hard. Right. But for some reason, it just felt like I was winning because I wasn't doing, you know, the litter runs. Oh, yeah. First sergeant. So, yeah. That's cool. That's really cool.

And then so you carried it on when you got out. You came back here. And then that's when you started your track of training. You mentioned going south, go north. How did you keep up your grappling and striking skills? In addition to, I imagine you've put tons of time in on your own, right? Yeah. Just trying to find good people.

to train with. There was still a good friend of mine, Stephen Ford. He's in this area. He was one of the, he's probably, him and Tommy Sharp. They're older guys now,

probably around your age, but they were the traditional sense of what martial artists were. They were really big on the conditioning, had really good knowledge on stand-up and some of the ground work and just trained. Right.

Just trained. And I learned how martial arts could be a way to subordinate the ego, some jaco terms. Sure. As much as it was less about me being better than you, me being this, me being that, and more about learning how to understand yourself through martial arts. Right. So it's like some people maybe could sit and meditate. You do sometimes.

but some people they need the movement, the motion to get that kind of that meditation and to self-reflect and understand yourself. And with those two guys, they really did a good job of, you know, training hard, training me well, and teaching me that martial arts was more than just beating the crap out of each other. Right. And yeah, so I trained with them for years and years and years and occasionally still do. They're still both really good mentors in my life.

And if anybody in this area knows them, they'll nothing but good things to say about them. Nice. But then, you know, I took it further. You know, I contemplated fighting, you know, professionally while using the GI Bill. Right. And that's one beautiful thing.

Again, if you do four years, is like the GI Bill gives you some time to transition out of the military. I will say some people use that time to fall into bad habits when they get out. And I think that's a large contributor to the, to PDSC and all the suicide that we see. No. But during that time, I went to eight points more time and went to San Juan. Okay.

And I trained out of there for a while. Great guys. Everyone was, I mean, high level more Thai. Right. It's the best I could find in the area as far as striking goes. Um, but, you know, obviously in Afghanistan, I, you know, we, we were in combat pretty heavily, uh, took some losses in our company. Um,

So what comes along with combat is traumatic brain injury and those kinds of things. So, you know, you start to see at a young age the signs and they're like, okay, maybe getting punched in the head on a regular basis might not be the way to go after, you know, having had been explosions. And so when I was in Afghanistan, I was the Carl Gustav Gunner. So Carl Gustav is an 84, it's a bazooka for lack of better terms. Well, so if you look it up, if you research it online, there's two things that will cause TBI. Number one is being the breach guy, the number one guy that breaches the door. I did that. I was that guy, me and my friend Dan McNaughton.

Wow. And I was also the Carl Gustav Gunner. Those two things are the top two things to cause traumatic brain injury. So because of that, I started to decide that like, hey, man, this, you know, kickboxing more tie in particular right probably not

the best career path I still love it I still turn but in that decision I looked around for the best grappling in the area

right turns out took me the other direction team manning right Brazilian jihitsu and you know the first

my first day there Tim put put miles on me in the standup I laugh If everybody knows Miles, they know what that means. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, it turns out me and him had a good scrap. Nice. Earned their respect. And me and Miles are still friends of this day. What was Miles then? Was he a blue belt even then? Or no. Maybe purple. Purple then? A lot of people don't know. He was fighting MMA for a while.

Before that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He had quite a few fights and was pretty good. And, you know, he's a, he's a dog. For sure. That was kind of my introduction to open Matt at P. Manning. But again, it checked the box for me of that camaraderie and brotherhood. Right.

Right. It wasn't, it wasn't, it was exactly what I was looking for. Like, that's what I wanted. And so I've never left since, you know, I needed that kind of relationship and bond post-service. and you know that was was where I found it and I've stayed there ever since that's awesome yeah did you think about you know the bond because the bond like like life I guess goes like this maybe not with the people but with the art and the day and that how it turns out in this and that just made me think of sometimes you know if I'm not in a great mood I got smashed whatever

and my wife's like you pay together and I'm like you're right because because what it you know it is you know someone else got smashed you know somebody else to suffer and some else has a great day. They look good. They were smooth. They were, you know, all this kind of stuff. And yeah, that, that to your point is like, you know, who I used to work calls with in public safety or like a patient. You're like, nobody understands it either. And I talk to like Adam about this and I've talked to other folks about it more in dealing with things, so it's PCC or counseling or something like that. When you talk to somebody that has no exposure, they don't, you're like, you know, not that they can't be helpful, but it's different when you share tough stuff

with people that also put themselves in those situations. And I think makes such a difference. And yeah, to your point, the bond, like, I'm a morning class guy and there's like morning class group, night class group, you know, all these people that you keep training with all the time, even though we're one team. But yeah, that bond is no joke and something to maintain for sure, I think. Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's something I thought about a lot because, you know, I'm on the board of directors with veteran Boshito Brotherhood, right?

Shameless Club. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, what I like about Jitju and combat sports in particular is you know, there's always these memes of like you got a doctor and a stoner in a jih Tzu room. But the common denominator is everyone routinely seeks willful adversity. You're coming in there to do something hard all the time. And there's no guarantee, like you're saying, that it's going to be a good day.

You could literally get choked and, you know, beat in a one-on-one hand-to-hand scenario. To do that regularly takes a real sense of humility, of, you know, fortitude. know all those words that you hear but you know when you enter into a room of people every single person is doing something that's uncomfortable and hard on a regular basis and those are the kinds of people you want to be right you know some people go their whole lives and never know what that would what that is like right and you know when you when you find people no matter how different they are for sure that do that on a regular basis it's that's that's the community yeah right that's for sure

That's the brotherhood or sisterhood, wherever you want to call it. It's surrounding yourself with people who want to do hard stuff on a regular basis. It's just there's nothing better than that. I agree. And you know, to that, the folks you, like us, Miles, smile with you, joke with you, smash the shit out of you. Yeah. But then also if anybody else came in that's not in that, right? And had a problem, it'd be like, everyone goes, you know, look at them.

Like, what are you doing? These are our people, you know, kind of thing that, you know, visiting. folks you see that too someone visits and they want to you know prove themselves and mat and for sure that kind of stuff so it's yeah it's it's great point of the bond you make and it is impressive to your point of yeah so many memes are true you know like especially the the variety of people that you see in there which is which i think makes it great and to your point two of like arma super tough also welcoming like someone's in oh it's your first day okay let's just kind of do this or watch that.

You know, it's, it's, we're not, and, you know, Tim will say this and, and you know it, too. Probably when you started and certainly when he started, it was like survival of the fittest, right? And it's, and it's evolved. And, you know, folks are still going to get some weight put on them and, you know, crushed a bit. But I think it's, it's super hard and it's welcoming, especially for people that are like, all right, I'm going to stick with it and check it out. Yeah. You know, we, we talk about community a lot, but, you know, they're also.

is the downside of the community in some ways. You know, you're hearing all this stuff with Andre Gaveo and all the essay, you know, some stuff I know you can't put on YouTube. They'll block you out. But you got to be careful, right? You really, you really need to. It's like a good therapist. You don't just go to the first therapist and you're like, I'm going to stay there.

Right. Go to a couple. Go see numerous therapists to see where you feel the most comfortable because not, Not every gym is a good gym out there. You know, we're lucky. We're lucky. Yeah. We got a decent place to go with good people.

But, you know, I try to think about people out there in the world. And, you know, it can be, you need to pay attention. You know, you need to be careful of what just because it's jujitsu doesn't mean it's a good community. Right. Right. You got to do your due diligence out there. So, yeah. That's another one of things I've seen is just because you're a black button jihits.

It doesn't mean you're a black button life. you know, which is super true. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's like that with anything. Right. That's probably one of my biggest lessons I learned in the military is rank doesn't mean that you have authority and power over people, right? Like if you are a black belt, if you are a sergeant or if you're on the top of the hierarchy, that means you need to earn the respect of the people underneath it.

You don't just have it because of that title. Just because you're a black belt doesn't mean that you can, you know, be disrespectful to people underneath you because of your title and your rank. It comes with the responsibility of being more of a good person, right? Having more integrity because it is inherent that if someone looks at you and in your black belt, expect, right? Like people expect you to have all of the values and the character traits that come with it. So it really is unfortunate to me that in some ways the traditional sense of what it means to be, you know, a higher rank is kind of lost. You know, I don't know, maybe we could associate that with like no ghee being

more popular. So you're not wearing the ghee. Right. That's tradition. The belt even matter. And Yeah, that's a whole genre of conversation. You're not kidding. You know, but to me, I like, you know, that there is an implicit thought process to the general population when they see a black belt that you're a good person, you have integrity, you're disciplined, you, you know, you can hold an environment and a space. And I think we should earn that. I think we should earn that every belt, every blue, purple, brown, all of those things should be built into you if you're in a good environment. That makes 100% sense.

I get it, yeah. And yeah, to the leadership aspect of it. As you move up, you owe the people that you, you know, military is a thing, but it happens in the corporate world, never or else where you might promote and they don't. And they might be salty about it. And you're like, all right, but this is where we're at. but let me help you, you know, get there or do whatever, help that next person kind of get to where you are and those kind of things. And, and, and, uh, jihitsu at least not as familiar with Mutai.

I imagine it carries over in combat. Like the same thing, right? It's going to be hard. I'm going to help you. Um, but you're going to earn it also, you know, by putting in the work and, and, you know, there's no free, no free promotions, no free like, you know, whether it's at work or on the mats or anywhere else, which is good because, you know, obviously then you'd be watered down on that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, it turns into. that like a lot of people talk about being like the karate right where you know you can go online and you can buy your belt right you can

you can buy all that but you know there's no substitute for for showing up right and you say a lot showing up and just putting in the time on the mat again the jaco of subordinate your ego right like that's if it's you if you get nothing else out of it, humility and being humble should should be the primary thing. It's actually, it actually baffles me that there can be people at that higher level that are not humble. Right. And having gone through all that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Having, yeah, having done all that time on the mat. Yeah. How do you end up at, but I think, and you know, there's this, I'm sure there's a term for it. Right. know but you know I felt that I just recently got my black belt right you you know this is transparency is you just don't know if not that you don't know I think people get their

black belts and then they want to roll less they don't want to roll as much they don't got because now I'm a black belt if I lose then I can never lose because never lose gotcha right but and then also if if you because of blue belt and me and you're rolling and you like get close to tap in me or whatever. Now, now it's like, oh, I'm a black belt. That shouldn't happen. Or I'm a black belt. Why? And then there's a mystique, right? Everyone thinks that, oh, because you're a black belt that I have this dimot. Like I touch you and you're like, ah, you know, and that's the end of it.

But it's not that at all. You know, Tim gave me a book. And in that book, it says something along the lines of if you're going to do jujitsu your whole life. you will spend the majority of your time as a black belt. Enjoy the colored belts. That's a crazy thought, right? That kind of changed the way I thought about it because I don't want to do that. I don't want to turn into this person that won't roll with my students because I'm a black belt and I don't want to, you know, get caught or whatever.

Or somehow if I do, it, like, I guess the fears that diminishes my students, my, again, authority or my power. But at the same time, I think I lose any respect, you know, if I'm just standing on the side. And I think that's what happens. I think people sit on the side more than they roll. And so you, you lose sight of the very thing that is the most beautiful about it, which is losing learning

and being a white belt yeah being a white belt all over again so that's that's that's something I'm trying you know to to not falling to myself is man I just

I gotta keep staying on the mats I got to keep rolling I got to keep putting myself out there if a if a purple belt or a blue belt gets me you know Cody he's got six years

of D1 wrestling right right he's gonna I wrote with him the other day I was gonna get me yeah There's another guy that's Frank at our gym. I mean, he's just good.

Yeah. Well, you do. I'm a black goat, but like, hey, he's going to get me sometimes. Right. You know, if we roll 100 times, 10 of those times, maybe he gets me. But guess what? I think maybe they'll respect me more that I stay on the mat. You know, I don't sit to the side and sit out for five rounds and then come in one round and choose my person.

Yeah. I'm just, I just roll. I just go. keep going. Roll. It's just what it is. It's funny. You mention that because

roll with them first time in the morning the day. And yeah, I was like, oh, this is a whole other thing. I mean, you know, wrestlers come in there.

We have wrestlers a good bit that come in and they're hard to deal with, right, even if they've never done Jitsu because they just know how to control people. Yeah. And the athleticism is a whole different thing. But to your point, oh,

I learned because, you know, when someone likes, they're on bottom and they like to, like, to throw their legs up and over to take the back. And it's, you know,

they're young and agile. and you're like, oh, now I've got to think about defending that now, but now it's another thing to think about. So, and, you know, analogies, which I think we equate to the hard stuff we do, plus work and all that of, you know, as a boss, as a leader, like, if you're like, oh, cool, and the manager now and now I don't have to do all the other stuff. I was listening to, you know, where a lot of folks, I would imagine that trainer, jaco fans, veterans, all that kind of stuff, no surprise, right?

But listen on the way down. And I think it was the soldiers handbook from Korea in his latest episode and talking about, you know, they don't help, they don't help carry things that the leaders, you know, poor, poor leaders. It was good, good leadership stuff, bad leadership stuff. Some of it's pretty obvious what you expect, what not. Right. But thinking about, you know, I have folks on my teams that have great ideas and they've done things in a different way than I have and, you know, they're helping to change the way we do things.

It's like, cool, let me again, it's a plant the ego and get it out of the way and go, cool, let's, let's mix that stuff in, which is very, it is hard to do sometimes. And it is very helpful as well, to your point. And yeah, as someone that is older, I'll be 52 soon. And it's like, all right, these young dudes come in and I want to prove them still kind of that old tiger, whatever. You know, at this point, I'm like a old Labrador retriever or whatever. But, you know, coming in, but you're like, but you know, this guy's to your point. He's wrestled forever.

He's young, he's strong. And, you know, he's into, so it's like, you know, what are you going to do? Not that you don't try, right? Not that you're not pushing yourself and gassed out and feeling like, ah. But, yeah, it definitely, that makes one of those days where you're like, man, And that was a tough one. I'm going to go make myself cold and the, you know, to freeze my worries away or whatever, something like that.

But yeah, I mean, he teaches me stuff. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not going to sit here and be like, I know everything in the world because I'm a black, though. Like, like Cody teaches me stuff. Yeah. You know, his, you know, not to go too technical for the people that are watching that may not do jihitsu, but it's like if someone could know where you're going before you know where to go it, that's, that's, that's, that's kind of what. what a wrestler's weight distribution is. That makes sense.

You know, rolling with someone like that, you learn. You know, I learn a lot. You really can. There's so many different minds and bodies and thought processes that you can learn something from every single person you roll with. And again, a cliche, you can learn something from everybody in life. But it's real. It's more real.

when it's physical combat. And so that lesson could be, you know, taken in. And then like you're saying, in the professional world, apply that. Right. You may be the manager, but the new person coming in may have something that they're telling you that could be useful, that could help. And as the black belt or as the manager or as the boss, our true job is to facilitate that environment, is to facilitate the ability to communicate with everyone no matter where they're at and get something out of it that that makes everyone better. It's not that I beat everyone. It's that I listen to everyone and

then try to take something from that. And, you know, a good example. There's a young guy here, Edwin, he wrestles. He's just been doing jiu-jitsu for six months, but we went to Cody's class the other day. I take what they teach and I teach it here because he's a D1 wrestler. Like, why would I not show? Right. But, you know, we were escaping the single, single leg and I forgot like a detail. And it was just, you know, keeping your head closer.

And Edwin pointed it out. And on retrospect, I felt the most proud of that moment because he could say it. It's comfortable doing it. me during the class and I I was like that's that's a small win for me not that I beat everyone right I won my rounds right but he was comfortable enough to be like hey coach you know remember that one thing he said about keeping the head up and I was like oh stop the class and I was like Edwin made a really good point I completely forgot about it again I know it's it's you know cliche but I

as I go into this and the older I get I feel like that that's the most important part of the whole thing is just being able to create, you know, not hold space, you know, like, but, but facilitating an environment of learning. I mean, that's, that's what the true art of martial arts is. Right. That's why they call them academies. That's why they're, you know, that's, that's why they are what they are is, is it should be a place of learning. Right. Both life and martial arts. That's a great point. It, it, a couple of, thoughts one, one again, how you facilitated that as well, and mentioned, you mentioned veteran Boshito and a couple of other organizations as well, but also maybe think of when you talked

about when you started training martial arts and martial arts now and what I grew up and probably some of what you saw as martial arts, right, kung fu theater and those kind of things and beautiful arts and all those, but it is interesting how over the past, you know, a long time now, I guess, but particularly the past at least a couple decades, folks have realized, oh, you know, the the real hands-on stuff, you know, is what works. The other stuff looks awesome. But, you know, it's a very different landscape of what, when we use the term martial arts, where essentially it used to mean people on wires flying through the air, you know, that kind of stuff.

And now it's essentially, you know, combat sports. But that there is benefit. You know, you put your kids in Taekwondo. They're going to get, like, they're going to do all those kinds of things. Thinking of no shade on Taekwondo, but just a, it is a big, usually big schools. a lot of kids there do this and promote that kind of stuff. But the Discipline Act versus like kind of the combat sports martial arts is just a different animal, right, so to speak. And I imagine how you apply it and what you take from it is, is to me the most important thing.

But it just made me think of what I used to think martial arts was and what I think it is now. But I think also, as I say this to my, you know, out loud of, you know, it's still martial arts, but what's effective and what's not, what's going to really push you and what's not, you know. Yeah, I like to think of it. as the way I like to talk about it is I believe that there's restorative martial arts. And then there's actual like combat martial arts. So Tai Chi, some of these other, it's not, I never want to be dismissive and be like, oh, that's, you know, that's, you can't do that. It's not going to work in the real world or whatever.

It has its place. It's restorative. You can, you can learn a lot about your body. Like I said, some people need to move. move to meditate. Right. Some people can sit and meditate, which is harder, in my opinion. But then there, the restorative martial arts should not be confused.

Right. Combat martial arts. Right. I mean, you see it all the time on YouTube and stuff. I know there's a famous. I got to, I actually talk to Rob from McDojo who shows a lot of those. And you're like, but people pay and they're like convinced, you know, stuff. I think it's because they've done.

don't distinguish themselves. Right. You know, I think if people like could put a category to it and be like, yes, this is restorative. This is for you to learn more about your body. They wouldn't get confused and think that you're going to go into the gym against an MMA fighter and do Tai Chi and beat them. You know, I just, there's two different applications, both very useful, but the goal is. is very different. And so, you know, we got to stay true to what the goal is. And to me, Tai Chi is, they're, they're, what they call it, the morning salutations that they have in Tai Chi. Right. I think, you know, here at CBF, they do, like, um, older people have classes and some of their bigger classes. So, you know, if you were a martial artist and you could come teach the sun salutations, right? I think that would be great. Yeah. For older people and for young people. For young.

people for young kids right attention you know the the the sun rises and goes down and that's what the sun salutation is and that's how you move your body and it you know teach young kids older people move it's beautiful and it's it's a great art but it's not going to win you a jihitsu competition right you know that's that's just the reality of it yeah the um so we're talking about the enablement so you trained you get out you're still training picking that up when did you kind of think hey i want I want to keep training more folks, probably less captive. I'm sure you trained folks right. When you were fighting to, showing them things.

And now you're back here, you're training. You're going north and south on your own. And then you head toward, you know, and this is probably more recent years like mindful gorillas, grillas, ATX, veteran Bishito, Curtis Bartlett. But when did you start thinking in your training time? Like, hey, I'd like to share this. Because you're also very active. We'll share all your contacts and stuff too.

as well on, you know, sharing fitness and wellness and mindset and those kind of things. When did you start thinking, hey, I want to now be the enabler, like folks enabled me to grow in all these different ways? That's a good question. I don't know if there was a specific moment. Professor Manon, Tim, he kind of seen something in me, I guess, and allowed me to start coaching the kickboxing classes. Oh, yeah.

And, you know, whether it was conscious or subconscious or it was just a relationship, and then elsewhere in life, you know, in different areas, it seems like taking complicated things and seeing the foundation of it, and then conveying it in words was something that I'm now. inclined towards and it actually had I realized that I could do it decently when I was a substance abuse counselor oh wow right and so what I found is so you know down here in Galax they have I don't know if I'd say the name but Life Center of Galax and you know a lot of the times it's Medicaid Medicare it's it's court court appointed so you're

not getting people who are in rehabilitation because they necessarily want to be. Now, some people are there for that reason. You just can't afford care, so that's where they end up. But if you get in a room full of 120 of those people, they're not going to sugarcoat your delivery of information. So I definitely was put in a scenario where I had to speak in front of the group on a regular basis. And it turned out that I did decent at it. And I didn't get a lot of negative feedback from people who will tell you almost immediately about anything that you're BSing them on. They don't

want any BS. So I started to learn that maybe I'm a decent like educator that I can I can make things understandable to people in a way that doesn't belittle or overcomplicate. or just meet them where they're at. And so I started to see and other people gave me that feedback like my my supervisors and, you know, people in my life that, you know, which seems like something that you're capable of doing. So I just continued to do that. I enjoy educating people and I, most importantly, I enjoy learning from people. right um i learned in in substance abuse the there's a term called empathy fatigue and something i didn't

know about you know up until then where you know when you deal with these these difficult populations for a long period of time you can actually like get fatigued and helping right like it kind of wears you down and so i started to learn about these these concepts and and how if you do you do you do you don't develop strategies very much like, you know, a manager right of how to stay engaged with the people around you that you're serving, then you become fatigue and you become, you know, tired. So my biggest lesson from substance abuse was remain curious. I just try to be curious about them every day day in, day out, curious about their problems, curious about who they were, curious about what was going on. And in that curiosity, I learned that the best way to educate

people is to want to learn from them. Right. And so that's just, it's just something that stuck with me. Right. From, from then until, until now. And I've, I've sensed, uh, saw out the education and the classical education in college, both undergrad and graduate and continued my learning process on the max. Right, yeah. And then there were some fighters at Team Manon that didn't have a coach to go with them.

So I went with them, Dustin. Dustin's a wild man. He would just go to MMA fights with no coach. Wow. You know, if he got hurt, you guess he was driving himself to the hospital. Wow. Learned Ranger. Yeah, so I, you know, I wanted to facilitate the brotherhood that we've experienced for those guys.

That's awesome. And remain curious and learn from them and maybe help them along the way. Right. How did you get into substance abuse? Was that not long after the military? Was it kind of a transition period? So I actually worked over here at the hospital at Twin County. And during that period of time, I was.

working as a security guard, not many jobs out there for infantrymen other than like law enforcement or security. So I took the security job and did my bachelor's degree at the same time. Oh, wow. Hybrid at Old Dominion. Okay. So once I completed it, you know, I'm looking around for jobs that are related to psychology. So I became a behavioral health technician at the like. Center that's that's like a that's like a what do they call nurses that like a nurses like a LPN person RN or a nurse assistant CPN CPN CNA CNA very much like a CNA but at a

behavioral health clinic okay so I did that for a little while and worked my way with my bachelor's degree into the substance abuse counseling role gotcha and stayed there for for quite a while until you know my I wanted to help veterans sure into the veterans um they call it disabled veterans outreach specialist with the virginia employment commission okay so i left there to kind of do to find my way to see like what i wanted to do uh with the veteran community and and all of that right so yeah my psychology degree kind of led me there and then uh I learned a lot of lessons and then take those lessons and see where I could take it. Right.

Yeah, you mentioned, you know, being transparent, right, which you have to be for folks that are in not great places that don't want to hear nonsense. What's another big lesson that you took from substance abuse counseling to becoming, like, you're the go-to fighters coach that are jam right in the area in a lot of places, I would say. you're there for a lot of folks like what's another thing in addition to being straightforward which i imagine in the fighting business you also have to be like whether someone's doing something not doing something uh that you apply now still that kind of sticks out uh i'd say the another principle that i live by is it's the weirdest thing and i would get people at the substance abuse clinic where they would come in and i swear they could tell you They could read you scripture.

They had the education. They had everything you needed to change. Right. But the number one thing that you need with your wisdom and your knowledge and your education is application. You have to apply to your life what you know. If you don't apply it, then you just know it, which is very different than being able to actually do something. So that is something that I try to give to, you know, the fighters or to people that it's not, you know, I always tell them to, it's not that I have some knowledge that they can't get somewhere else. I just make sure we take the time to throw in combat sports a two,

so a rear hand, whatever your rear hand, whether it's left or right, it's the rear hand. We're going to take the time to apply that as efficiently as possible. I don't care if you're a pro fighter, I don't care if it's your first day in class. We have to apply proper technique to this movement over and over. over and over and over. Building that muscle memory. Yeah, if you don't apply it, you just know it. Right.

Right. And they probably, you know, some, we've been doing a two, three for like a month and a half now. You know, it's not all we do. Right. But the warm up and all that once we get there is we apply that because it translates into every other aspect of every combination, every kick, every movement is built off of the two. and three. If you can't do those two things, then everything else is just going to be off balance. If you can't apply your wisdom or your knowledge to your management, then the business is going to be off balance.

That makes sense. Yeah. That's kind of the, I think the lesson and to answer your question that I took from it is to apply the fundamentals without apologizing because it's better it's the it's better for everyone even though in the moment they may not feel like it without apologizing because some folks just want like more and something that's flashy or something like that versus like over and over and over again kind of things yeah I mean I felt for a long time I felt like as a coach I had to entertain people like I had they come into the class and I had to get them entertainment and to make them this will be fun Yeah, yeah.

And then over time, you know, especially when you meet someone, again, we talk about Cody a lot, but he has a solid mindset. Nice. It's an irrefutable desire to do those fundamental things over and over and over and over again. And so once again, you see people like you who are also very disciplined on application. and foundations, then you know like, okay, we're on the right track here, right? We're on the right track because it's not just me that thinks this. Right, right. It's everyone that thinks this.

And so you start to see it. You know, it's like, okay, now I can judge how the skill level of the room is based off of how well they can throw a tube. Right. And now it's not just me entertaining you with this long combination or this fun thing over here. Let's just spar. It's just far. Right. It's, I can, I can genuinely see progress in people.

Nice. And that's like the most important thing. Right. People process. Oh, there you go. Look how that. He knows what's up. Right on.

I mean, well, yeah, perfect transition then. And plug. So to that, is that what led you to, which is super cool, mindful guerrillas to Gorillitex, to kind of your own brand, which. is more than just fight training like its mindset it's it's a whole bunch of things and i've you know followed where back and forth likes you know it's just cool of you know you're training as well getting certified and and here but but really leading into your own kind of mind and body space i'll call it um for lack of better terms but is that what kind of helped you go you know what i want to

i want to brand this now and and where did that come from so it came from the university of health of performance. There's a guy, Matt Hesse, he's a brilliant man and he was an Air Force veteran and you know, entrepreneur doesn't even begin to describe them. But he has built this, you know, back when I went, it was literally just a beaver dome, which is if you could imagine in your mind like this long sheltered tent like thing that has like racks like bees. Right. And there. That's all it was. Huh. But his vision was to pull in veterans post service.

Oh, nice. And then get them personal training certifications for, you know, possible employment. Right. But the funny thing was, is that when you get there, you're like, oh, I'm just going to train at this cool facility. But it turns into this, I won't say mental health. program. Right. It is now.

Now they have like integrative health coaches, which is very much focused on mental health. But they snuck in, you know, having these, they call holding space. Okay. And so in the evening there was this fire, and you had the opportunity to come share

about your trauma or about your life or And it was just such a pivotal thing for a lot of people. Right. Like it just, it really was. And it was for me, too, even though I never shared because I'm too shy. But they actually had me do the closing ceremony speech. And I like cried and stuff.

Yeah. What is this? Where is these tears coming? They're like, it's working. Yeah. I was embarrassed. I still am. If y'all are out there, I'm still embarrassed.

But, uh, good job. Yeah. Yeah. So UHP and there's a gentleman Johnny Martin, hopefully one day you could get them on here. Sure, yeah. They just really emphasized how holding space and talking and building more than just physical fitness, but also like being a part, not just being a part of a group, but sharing with that group, being vulnerable, talking, all of those things. So that experience made me think, okay, how can I do this for the people in this area?

Like, how can I bring this back to the people around me? And so that's what started. It's still mindful guerrillas. And, you know, I had an idea of doing something with that in the mental health realm. But it's transitioned and turned into it like guerrilla athletics, guerrilla, asymmetric warfare on a larger entity. Nice. So, you know, a small group of people in Galax, Virginia supporting a larger or and going against bigger entities.

G-U-E not G-O-R. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I've actually had that name for about six years as a registered business. And so, yeah, I'm still working on how I'm going to fully integrate that into the community.

but right now I'm using what I've been doing the most, which is combat sports, and jit-to and all of those things. I also help here a lot with Curtis Bartlett Fitness Center, just with some of their organizational leadership stuff. They're really great and really receptive towards me. Sam, awesome. Sam really, Sam Bartlett, he really allows me to grow. right as a leader nice and and Caleb his son uh he's younger than I am but he's he's

you know an impressive young man he also is very receptive to like my ideas and kind of sharing that community and that uh that idea of making each other better through sharing ideas you know holding space right and trying to to to Their mission statement is transform communities through purpose driven fitness. So that's aligned with what I want to do. I'm just more on the veteran first responder LEO side, but also the community. So right, you know, kind of aligns, you know. I mean, and that's, you know, to that, so we're in the Curtis Bartlett Fitness Center,

which is awesome. And that's a big deal. you have big connections to that. So let's touch on that. And yeah, like we talked about like you shared, definitely one in the future, come back and focus on this more and Curtis's story and stuff. But can you give us a window into who he is, but who he was when he was here, what this center is all about and how you got connected to touch on because now you'll be more so and

we'll show and we'll do a tour video and stuff, but like show your space and all that kind of stuff. But give us a picture of Curtis and the fitness center here. Curtis, man, he has been, had been my friend since I was probably 13 years old. He taught me how to drive a straight shift in his white Mustang. I was probably a thorn and Sam's side for a lot of my youth. Curtis was like, you know, I was talking about curiosity being like this, this intrinsic motivational fuel. Right.

He just was curious about everything and he would do anything. I mean, it was hard to keep up with it, honestly. You know, when I was a kid, I thought fun was, you know, partying. and drugs and all of the, you know, small town stuff. You think where I'm at, it's such a small area. There's nothing cool to do. But Curtis somehow, and I, you know, I got to give credit to Sam and Linda, his parents,

just made everything about life seem fun. Wow. I mean, we would have, you know, zip lines. Oh, wow. I mean, you name it. I mean, he had, like, like, mopads that looked like motorcycles. We would go jump off, like, rocks and do flips. I mean, it was, you know, anything that, that I thought would be this mundane, like, boring thing.

He just made it fun. That's cool. And he did that until, up until he passed. He was a veteran. He was in law enforcement. And he just. brought he brought I hate saying this because you you watch these videos on like lifetime they're like just lit the room up yeah I hate that but he he really was

like this ball of motivation that yeah just wanted to be around you just wanted to take some yeah you just wanted some of that energy and that motivation that he had and he just that's cool made people feel like that around them right did it effortlessly It wasn't even before CBF, he had law enforcement in the basement of his house. Wow. He was training people. He would be training his little brother, Caleb now, all his friends. And he wasn't even like trying to be.

That's just how he was. Wow. And so he got pretty popular on Instagram or YouTube with the RSP nutrition stuff, had some viral videos. Nice. And, you know, that's a small part of who he was. Right. But that's how a lot of people know. Okay.

And then, you know, when he passed, the community here rallied around, you know, Sam and everyone. Sam and Caleb have, and the rest of the family have done a really good job of carrying on that, like, legacy. Yeah. Of who he was and how he inspired people, the terms live inspired. So I, you know, I feel like it's a big part of who I want to be is to be here and support them. And they've stuck by me to, you know, I was at another place and then they welcomed me back. And, you know, it just seems like the right place to be, you know, for everyone. That's awesome.

Yeah. So if you go on YouTube, look at Curtis Bartlett, Fitness Center, that's the name, right? And look out, there's a video, great tribute video also. You might cry. Some of us may have got some dust. But to your point, his transition too, right? He served. And then they talk about, you're like, you're not in great shape.

And then he went like, he was jacked. I mean, the fitness stuff, you know, he's doing the, figure what that is the flag or whatever on bars and stuff. Yeah. But Wad, when he was in, were you all in at the same time? You're both in the Army, right? I think I was sooner than him. Okay. But he, he was in for like the Iraq, Afghanistan period as well. And then became an officer after that, right? Law enforcement officer. Yes. Yeah. Well, he, so he actually did, like, private security contracting. You know, there was that period of time where that was, like, a really popular thing to do. And he did that quite a while and then transition. over into law enforcement. Cool.

Yeah, check out Curtis Bartlett. Fitness at Fitness Center. Amazing and physically amazing. We'll do a tour for sure. So yeah, that that's amazing and that community bond is huge. It stinks that, you know, he's not here, but his legs, he's certainly living on. And you're, you know, certainly do emulate that in helping folks. And with Grillin'X and then you mentioned earlier, veteran Bishito Brotherhood and other

obviously veteran focused largely on jiu-jitsu, but is there other other aspects? but is there other aspects of combat sports in general? It's pretty much a jujitsu-focused organization, right, that empowers veterans as well. Yeah, so Jerich was smart. You know, I think initially we wanted to focus on jiu-jitsu, but at the end of the day, it's more about just getting veterans in the door of the gym.

Nice. Doesn't have to be jiu-jitsu. Okay. It's not for everybody. Sure. So the whole premise behind it is to pay three months of any, veterans gym membership. Wow.

And it doesn't have to be Jiu-Jitsu. Now, on the Jiu-Tit-Side, he has a connection to the Jocco-energy. Oh, yeah. Group. J-co-Fuel. J-co-Fuel. Yeah. So there's a ghee and a care package of some of that stuff for the J-Jitsu practitioners.

So, you know, we're still kind of mainly on that angle. Sure. But it's really just to get veterans in, which, you know, I believe in. I think it's a good idea. You know, I have a lady I train. She's a firefighter, but, you know, her family member, a significant family members going through some health issues. And, you know, I just want a reminder during the hard time or I did remind her that, you know, it is about fitness. Sure.

You know, you want to be healthy. Right. But something that people often don't think about is finding roots in routine. And that's something I took from Jay Shetty. He has a book called Think Like a Monk. But when you are having a hard time or you're struggling with a loss, sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself is continue in a routine. And showing up at the gym in front of people, no matter what,

happening in your life can really it can save your life now it really can because you just you just keep following the routine and you keep pushing through and you keep finding that life can go on and it can get better and it gets better if you you share your time with people and a community so yeah getting in the door right getting people to continue to train is is more than jiu-titsu right can help people in all areas of their life so veterans you know we we all know the statistic of how many are lost a day and so find you know finding community and showing up and right that's that's it's just such a pivotal aspect and a lot of us veterans are just hard-headed and we don't want to do it you know right yeah totally yeah I mean the another

is black cliche his work but movement is medicine is is 100% when my dad was sick before that. And like, all these things, you're like, all right, get up and go to the gym, get, you know, do something that. And even now when you're, quote, stable, which no one's perfectly stable all the time, I'll say. But even when you're like, I'll take the day off, like, you feel it in your head. I do for sure.

I'm like, man, I didn't get that, you know, burn it out this morning or whatever it is. It makes a huge difference. And yet, to your point, you know, the movement and science-wise is as good or better, than some of the meds that also folks will be pushing. I'm not going anywhere with that, although I've said that before. I found much more benefit from diving into taking action on the stuff that helps, keeping moving,

and then balancing, you know, what, you know, what skills over pills versus, you know, oh, I need a little help with this or whatever. But by far the movement, the exercise of some sort. And I think that's another thing, too, is some folks are overwhelmed, right? So say they did get in bad habits. They're super out of shape. they don't want to go to a gym where everybody's like Jack or they think they're going to do this or going to jitsu how can folks or how can we help them break down their mental barrier of one you got to get started

because it's going to help but then finding a place we talked about finding you know a gym and and I'm big on and shared like call and see if you can do a trial see what the environment's like how do folks talk but to get to that veteran to say like you really need to start moving your body to help your mind and then do that. How do you help break that down for folks that you've helped? Yeah, that's a tough one. You know, to start kind of hitting on your initial point of, I think a lot of the time, especially, you know, in our current environment, it's one side or the other.

It just seems to be like what it's like. And, you know, now that we have the ability to focus on that 24-7 with a phone, We forget that, you know, life is nuanced and people can change their mind. And you can feel one way today and change that way tomorrow. And that's perfectly fine. Right. So it's not to say that, you know, medication isn't good for you. But so is fitness.

Right. And so is community. And one of the two is going to be. always there no matter what the status of the country you live in is you know you're not always going to be able to get your your your appeal but you will always be able to have your health right and you will always be able to look to to a certain extent and you will always be able to have a community if you choose right to engage in that you know I think with veterans it's tough because you know you know you know, you know, especially in the G-Y era, we were kind of fed a narrative of who we were supposed to be when we got back.

Right. We were supposed to be the broken, troubled, shell-shocked, veteran, and, you know, I'll probably take some heat for this, but I sometimes wonder if the disability pay keeps us inside and not outwe. working and that may be a bit of a crutch and and if you are getting that disability pay you then need to substitute working and not necessarily like you know something that you don't want to do but that waking up right place right time right uniform is also medicine right right and so showing up somewhere on a regular basis where people expect you to be there. If you get the disability pay, you can choose where that is. Right. But go somewhere, whether it's the gym and share, share your knowledge, share your experience. If you were in the military, you know something about leadership, good or bad. Right. And so we, you know, should share those experiences with, with other

people. I fear that a lot of people get this money and they get back and they fed this narrative of you should be the drug pill poppins broken veteran that, you know, can't function in society and needs to know where the doors are at all times. And it may be true for some people, but it's also true that you did something that 1% of the population could do. You have experiences that not hard anyone you know could even understand you understand leadership in a way that other people won't right they don't have the applied and practical application and you you are part of a community that is rare and it's going to be even more rare as time goes on I don't know that we'll see like a boots on the ground type of war in the same way that we have in the past I don't know if that'll ever

exist again. So like you guys out there that are veterans, share your experience, share your knowledge, get out and be a part of the community because now more than ever, we need leaders. We need real leaders. And, you know, I hate to say, you know, going back to what I was talking about, but UHP has really nailed it on that. Not, you know, they don't give me anything. I don't even know if they like me there or not, but not that they have a reason not to, but I don't get anything from saying this. But the idea of, you know, a personal training certification or just getting back out and being vulnerable with your community and with the people around you is, is it has to happen. Right. Or you're going to self-medicate.

you're going to isolate and your world's going to start being as big as your shoe lises and we all know what happens. Not good outcomes. And that's a good point too, as much as the stereotype of like you mentioned, right, you can't do it with it's horrible. You just got to do this. You can't do a bottle pills, et cetera. There's also a bunch of other people that haven't done that.

So like look that way. Look up at the folks that dealt with the same. stuff, right? Differently because different humans. And there's so much to take from that, I think, to your point. Because yeah, which, you know, if you get in a spiral, let yourself keep going down. I know it feels like you're not letting yourself. I think that's the free will and the choice and the action you mentioned earlier too of really

having to. And I think the straightforwardness you'll get from your veteran Sue to tell you like, you're fucking it up. Yeah. Let's go. Right? your real friends, brothers and sisters, family will tell you that. The folks that are nervous to say something will let you keep going.

They're like, well, I don't want to get in their business. And you're like, well, if someone's crashing, that's when you should get in their business. You know what I mean? Probably before then, which is hard. It's a hard thing to do for sure. But, and you'll find out like everybody's got like you talked about counseling sitting around the circle, whether it's with other veterans at the fitness area or substance abuse. Like one of the greatest things I found out the first time I read.

realize, hey, I'll go talk to somebody and see how it goes or call people and talk to them because I was in a horrible spot. It's like everybody's got some shit and it's helpful to hear their shit compared to you. You know what I mean? Like it's a helpful thing. The, what did you call it making, not making space, but like sitting around the farm. Holding space. It's great.

Love the term. Great concept. It is a game changing thing to do that. And I mean, you know, everybody could use counsel. Oh, for sure. Right. And that's like, that's the big stereotype in the veteran community is like we don't want to go see someone who doesn't understand our experiences of combat, you know. So it's, and that's true.

You know, I was in direct combat. I was an infantryman in Afghanistan. Like, I've seen combat. I know what I know what that's all about. And I can say that it doesn't matter who the person was previously in their life as long as they're, you know, a therapist. that's credential that you get along with that that understands you speaking and talking to someone right is just helpful right we all could use counsel it just because you're seeing a therapist doesn't make you weak in any kind of way it it actually makes you you truly a good

counselor you know something I learned in my my higher education is Our job isn't to tell you anything or like manipulate your thought process in any way or change your mind. It's to help you hear your own thoughts and lead you to your own conclusions that you already have. I'm not, we don't, they tell us all the time, do not give advice. We're not giving advice. Right. We're echoing and letting you say out loud your narrative. and then we help you understand it.

Work through our own thoughts and things. Yeah. And like what is meditation? Yeah. You with yourself. It's that. For sure. Yeah.

You sit with yourself quietly for so long that you start to hear the reoccurring internal dialogue. And you start to realize that doesn't serve me. Right. Like what is that? What is that reoccurring thought doing for me? Right. Nothing. you got you got to let it go and so you know i would you know i hope i don't i don't want it to

sound as though we're saying community replaces counseling right or vice versa it's you know if you're going on a combat mission you're going to need all your tools right so these are just tools you're got to use them you know don't don't leave one over here and one over there use your tools you know and if if you have an experiment if you ever feel bad go open the door for an old lady you'll feel better now just amplify that right go talk to someone go help someone go be a leader right in your community you'll feel better right yeah yeah that the helping others helps you not in a selfish way, but it's also not bad to be selfish when you're trying to make yourself better. But yeah, to your point, is such a great thing. And I love, you mentioned earlier

about asking questions, gets people to help solve their own problems. There's a, you know, Maxwell's had a book, good leaders ask great questions. And a lot of that, like what you were saying, is sound like that of like, I'm going to ask questions and then you're going to answer it. But I'm not going to ask you a question that gives you the answer. It's, you know, It's, well, what did you think about this? Do you think you have all the things? You know, I think that's such a powerful tool. And like you mentioned earlier about listening to folks, they can tell you're listening, right?

Because I'm going to ask the question based off what I know you said, not just like going on the list and asking you questions. And you're like, I don't know what you're talking about or, you know, whatever. It's a connected back and forth. And that's, I think, such a powerful thing in your advice to reach out to others, help others, pays dividends for yourself so much. I mean, you know, doing a podcast, doing interviews like you've done, you know, but I remember you should do and stuff like talking about those things helps that group than the people that listen. There's always or often, I would imagine response, feedback, comments, whatever form it takes of, man, that hit right when I was thinking or, oh, I hadn't

thought about that, right? And that one thing where you're like, oh, another human got a benefit is, of course, it's dopamine hit, but a good way of like, wow, that's, That's why you show up and do that thing again, you know, put that time in. I mean, that's leadership, right? Yeah. Like, that's leading from the front. We hear that in the military, you know, every first day of basically saying lead from the front, you know. And in the civilian world, leading from the front can be, you know, in two words, servant leadership, which is you're serving those around you.

So serve those around you as a leader. and you're going to find more about, you're going to find out more about yourself and you're going to see that you have a lot to offer the world. And that's, I think, a key element to reducing this number that we see on a regular basis. In my company alone, I mean, I know there's been over five, you know who have lost their lives to that that internal struggle so thing yeah so helping others as we do asking good questions uh in the galax series so in this series asked some newer

valley questions right uh and so but now we're in galax so let's focus on here uh what is the go-to place you would send somebody to get a meal in galax in galax yeah that's a good question i So there's a place downtown called Briar Patch. I don't know if it's open on Sundays, but it's a good little cafe. Nice. I get the turkey bacon rat. That's like a local, like a local spot, you know.

I don't want to tell you Starbucks. Yeah, right. Yeah. You can go anywhere. Yeah. It's the same. So there's that place and then there's Creek Bottom. Creek Bottom.

It's like a local, but it's, you know, it's more of like a sports bar. kind of place, but their food is pretty good too. Nice. Well, so yeah, those will probably be the two main spots. And then, so actually, Sam's daughter, Faith, she opened what's called boosted bowls. Boosted bowls. And so it's on the way out, but it's like a healthy fast food alternative. So it's not fast food.

Right. It's very much like the, you know how Chipotle has, you know, the food. Right. But it's healthy versions of that. Oh, nice. Like chicken and, you know, it's. K.O. Yeah.

Yeah. So she recently opened that up. Oh, nice. It's on the way out. So boosted bowls. Boosted bowls. It used to be downstairs here. Oh, wow.

But they've, you know, grown. Good. Which is good. That is good. where would you send somebody to see the great outdoors here in Gailax? So that's a good one because we have the New River Trail and the New River Trail is It looks awesome. It's it's as beautiful of a trail as you're going to find in the United States That's cool. It follows along the new river the new river is one of the oldest rivers in the country

If not the oldest I'm not sure It's it's beautiful it's It's flat. Nice. Yeah. So it's, I oftentimes wish that when I was a kid, I would have realized like what I had. Don there more. Yeah.

Because, so it's 60 miles. It starts and freeze. It's like a Y. Okay. So, you know, it starts and freeze goes to freeze junction. And then it goes to Gaelax. But if you keep going, it goes all the way to Pulaski. Wow.

And through Claytor Lake. So there are parts of Claytor Lake. The trails by the trail. Oh, wow. That's cool. So it's a beautiful trail. Yeah. Yeah, if you want to do anything outdoor, you know, it's at the newer trail.

Is that the one that has the bridge? I think I've seen your video's photos on you. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I was like, a picture was your bridge photo or video. I was like, it's got to be, we're there. And I didn't realize that was part of the trail. So that's awesome.

Yeah. It used to be an old railroad for the Civil War. Wow. Yeah, a lot of. I talked to someone who, who was a mentor, leadership mentor, we did a Gettysburg staff ride. And now the company that did that works with Jocko's

coming to echelon front, and he's one of their guys, and he was talking about the Civil War. We were talking about Gettysburg and leadership and things, but then I looked into this whole region, and I mean, it's Virginia, so of course there's Civil War stuff, but I was like, holy smokes, man, and all the rails and that kind of stuff. Pretty cool, you know, in this area.

So what keeps you, we talked about you coming back here after the Army, traveling, all around but what keeps you here instead of saying you know what i want i'll get closer to this closer to that so if someone was like you know why why would why would i come to galax why would i live there why would i stay there how would you share with them yeah you know it's it's it's all the things there's there's good and good and bad that comes along with like small town right but you know i have i have kids here and they're integrated into the community and into the school system right You know, it's, it's a small, small town.

Everybody, you know, knows everybody, which can be dramatic, but it can also, you know, I think we forget there's also comfort in that, to some degree. Yeah. Neighbors actually look out for neighbors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, it's the small town aspect keeps you coming back.

And home is home, you know, it's good when I've traveled, you know, I've traveled, you know, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the places in between to get there and this and that. And, you know, I would always tell kids when they're young and they don't have any true obligations like children or whatever to go see the world. But, you know, Virginia, there's very few earthquakes. No large predatory animals. Right. No large reptiles. Yeah.

Right. Clean air. Right. Good water. Yeah. Not a bad place in the world to be. you know uh mountains oceans everything in between yeah so you know i i like being in virginia i think we will eventually start leaning towards uh the stanton area oh yeah the schenadova

valley area yes i see the near future but uh right now you know just you know i don't know why i just want to you know i have my young teenage boys just like you you have you have a great place to live right don't get stuck in because there's There's not, you know, like these party areas or these, you know, giant, you know, teams to go, you know, that it's a bad area because Charlotte's just up the road. Oh, yeah. All that kind of stuff. That's true. It's not a bad place to live, you know, if you wanted to.

But just like anywhere, the employment's tough. Yeah. You know, it's a former furniture area that lost it. The industry is industry. Pulaski got hit way worse than we did. If you ever go to Pulaski, it's really bad. But, you know, all in all, not a bad area to live in. Nice.

It's kind of what keeps me here. Cool. Well, folks don't physically come here to train with you or if they want to. One, how do folks get signed up here? Where do they go? How do they learn about the classes that you do here at Curtis Bartlett as part of Real ATX? Yeah, so we're on the website, Curtis Bartlett Fitness.com, I believe, and there's all of the Instagram and the socials, the Facebook.

They have, you can look up Curtis Bartlett Fitness. Come on. You know, we have our website, Gorilla, G-U-E-R-I-L-A, so two R's, two L's online, you know, ATX.com to check it out. But come see us. Yeah. Come out. Come check out the place because I think, if I'm not mistaken,

and Kevin can probably tell you this is you will be surprised at the facility here. It's not what you expect. It is not. Yeah, I mean, if you're in a bigger town, it feels like a, for lack of the better words, a big town gym, right? Like it's, you know, we did a tour and again, we'll do videos that in your future of, it's just amazing. It's got all the equipment you could want and then some stuff you don't even know what it does and then think you might want, which is amazing. and the color skin, just everything. It's a very, very nice building.

Yeah, I agree. How do folks follow you on your various platforms? Instagram is conscious.clay. And then I have guerrilla athletics on Instagram. I don't hardly do Snapchat. I try to keep up with my kids, but I don't understand it very well. Same. Right.

So, you know, I probably don't use it the way it's supposed to be. And then Facebook, you know, Clay Cicrat. Nice. And then, you know, follow Curtis Bartlett Fitness and all the, there's a lot of good trainers here. You know, we're Caleb, Caleb is really doing a good job of, like, building local, local trainers. And, you know, so, so is, if anything, there's a gentleman that works here, Jake. He's, he's making some fun videos. Oh, cool.

Even if you don't live in the area, check out. take out of business because there's some there's some guys that are working here and making some videos so check out Curtis Bartlett Fitness cool and we'll do the link in the comments thing we'll have linked to everybody's socials and thanks so much clay man it was good to I think it's the most we've talked and I started training in 2019 probably see each other every now and then classes but good to dive into it more good to connect I'm sure we'll see each other online and maybe an open mat every now and then but thanks so much man for your insight for what you're doing for veterans again we'll shout Shout out to Curtis Barlett, Veteran Machino Brotherhood, Guerrilla ATX, everywhere.

But really appreciate your time, man. Thanks a lot. Appreciate you. Thank you. Cool.