The People, Process, & Progress Podcast - Keep Your Elbows Tight with Travis Motl of the Elbows Tight Podcast | KEV Talks #29

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

Travis Motl (Moat+L), is a Husband, Father, U.S. Navy Veteran, BJJ Blue Belt, and fellow podcaster. Travis hosts the Elbows Tight podcast where he talks "...to everyone from brand new white belts to well-established black belts to discuss their experiences, challenges, and successes.". In this episode, Travis and I talk about where he's from, and share our U.S. Navy lessons learned, and challenges with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ), provide tips for starting a podcast, and discuss the future of the Elbows Tight show.Key discussion points from this episode:Travis' path to the U.S. NavyFrom behind the Welder's mask to behind a deskWhat led Travis to the BJJ matsWhy and how Travis started Elbows Tight with his friend JonWhat's the future of Elbows Tight?Read more and buy some merch at https://www.elbowstight.com/ and follow Travis @elbowstight on Instagram and Twitter and follow the Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/ElbowsTightPodcast and the YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/c/ElbowsTight.Thank you all for listening and when training Jiu Jitsu remember...BreatheFrameSurviveMore on Jiu-Jitsu at https://kevtalkspod.com/?s=jiu+jitsu&orderby=relevance&order=DESC

This week, I'm lucky to have a conversation with Travis Modell, who is the host of the popular Elbows Tight podcast, where he walks brand new Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu white belts like he used to be through the process of getting started. And he's now a blue belt, and he continues to interview high-level Jiu-Jitsu practitioners. We have a great talk. Travis and I have a lot of commonalities. We're both U.S. Navy veterans, practice Jiu-Jitsu. We're both blue belts. I'm a bit older. I'm that older grappler he mentions on his podcast, but I think you'll find this conversation both entertaining and enlightening about Travis and his life and about

jiu-jitsu, how jiu-jitsu reflects what's going on in your life, and about podcasting, growing a show, and really the path for Elbow's Tight to become more than just a podcast, more than a YouTube show. So thanks so much for tuning in. Check out kevtalkspod.com for more information. Elbowstight.com to check out Travis and the movement he's creating over there in Elbows Tight. So thanks so much.

Thanks for coming to the KevTalks podcast. Here you'll lead industry-leading best practices and program project in all hazards and incident management with a dash of jujitsu and a smidge of health and wellness. So whether it's a solo episode with me, Kevin Pinnell, or one of my fantastic guests, the focus is on people, how we can share our processes so that you and I can make progress together. Thanks for listening. Now let's get back into this episode. There we go. Cool. In three, two, one. Hey, everybody. Thanks for coming back to the KevTalks

podcast. This is episode 29, Keeping Your Elbows Tight with Travis Modell, who is a fellow podcaster, Jiu-Jitsu Blue Belt, which means we talk about Jiu-Jitsu all the time to everybody that'll listen, father and U.S. Navy veteran. Travis, thanks so much for being here. It's good to connect, man. Hey, thank you, Kev, for bringing me on. I'm super excited about this. All day today, my family, because I've been traveling, like I told you, with my family all day today. They're like, Travis needs to be at somewhere. He has a podcast at 12. I'm like, it's okay. Do not cater around my interview. We can do whatever we want. I promise. It is funny. I i mean that is the great

thing about uh one i think podcasting is just cool obviously because i do it i assume you like it as well and then you know because it's like you can stop you can pause like we did a little bit ago it's not like a radio show where you're like crap we're live on air that just went out everywhere so yeah but yeah it's cool cool them to do and like we're talking about you know i used to be such a fanatic about like sound and don't make noise and now we're living life you know post covid we'll say post big part of covid or whatever and um i think from everybody being home being on calls and having life come into your calls it's like yeah podcast yeah yeah no i when uh we record i typically try to do it like when uh my kids are sleeping that way it's just a little less noise yeah but that doesn't always work out and so sometimes uh they're screaming in the

background my dog's barking someone rang my doorbell and same thing with you it's like like uh i was like oh man now i gotta edit all that out i gotta stop talking for a second but i've come to realize after talking to listeners they're like oh we don't care. They're like, you're in your house. It's not like you're in a podcast studio. So it's a success. And they go through the same stuff. Yeah. Where I'm now, we, in the past year or so, finished our, above our garage and we have

a garage gym, which is like right below me. So my oldest who's 16, which is great. He's active, you know, works out and all that stuff. And, but I've been in here sometimes in a certain area and then, but you know, the way it's hitting, I'm like, dude, I just talked to you about, but you know, to that stuff and but i've been here sometimes in a certain area and then but you know the way it's hitting i'm like dude i just talked to you about but you know to that point but yeah so cool to connect it's i mean this to me is one of the the positives about uh social media right when you follow each other stuff shows up in your feed and you're like oh that is actually similar to things i like yeah clickbait or whatever and so um i think we're talking about this i don't

remember if something from y'all show popped up or I posted something. We both post obviously about jujitsu a lot and talk about exercise. So one, I think that's cool because what I mean, it's a good subject between, you know, fitness and jujitsu is just great to get out in the world more. So it was cool to connect and reach out and have you come on. So yeah, absolutely. I'm excited. So you're traveling today. So you're not, uh, where you are from or are you, where you're from, where are you today? And I guess, where are you from originally? Uh, we're in Minneapolis right now. I'm flying out tomorrow morning, uh, back to the, no, you're good, man. Uh, to the Seattle area. Um, I'm not originally from Seattle either,

but I moved up there because of the Navy in 2014 and met a girl and stayed. Yeah, there you go. But I grew up in Vegas and joined the Navy out of Vegas. So once I moved up to Washington, I was like, I'm not going to stay here forever. I'm just going to get out of the Navy and dip out. But life has crazy plans. So I'm up there.

A sailor that fell in love with a girl and then stayed there what a crazy story right yeah it's interesting from uh vegas with all the oceans around there what what prompted you to join the navy being you know growing up from around there uh so when i was when i was in give you kind of like a not so long-winded answer um when i was growing up cool i don't want to hear that so growing up my my my uncle was a welder and my parents were like hey uh we won't be able to send you through college so you need to find some way to to pay for college if you want to go and uh they were also very blunt with me they're like you should probably pick up a trade too while you're at it and i was like okay so my uncle was a welder. Uh, so I picked up welding.

I went to a trade school in high school along with my normal high school. So half my day was in normal high school. And, uh, when I was in my trade school, my teacher, my welding teacher was like, Hey, look, if you guys want to make a welding career, you should do it too. There's two ways you should do it. You should either join the pipe fitters union, or you should join the Navy. And I graduated in 08. So that tells you how young I am, but I graduated in 08. And, uh, what happened in 08, the, the housing market crash, the great recession, all that stuff. Right. And so the pipe fitters union is like, well, we don't have work, so we're not hiring. And, uh, I was going through some hard stuff in life and uh i walked over to my dad's house who lived in the same apartment

complex at me as me at 18 years old and i was like hey dad i think i'm joining the navy and uh he's like all right get in the truck before you change your mind because he's an air force vet so he was like he was like all right let's join the navy and so i joined the navy as a welder did seven years and uh loved it had a blast uh successful at it. I picked up E6 in under six years. Wow. Yeah. I got out, uh, uh, after just under seven years and, uh, never looked back. So now I work for Uncle Sam again, though. That's cool. Yeah. So was it the, uh, the air force that took y'all to Vegas, uh, with your dad? No. So the air force, the air force took my you out of vegas uh with your dad no so the air force the air force took my dad to vegas and he met my mom there and then um my mom got pregnant with me and my dad was

about to get orders to korea but he decided to get out and uh raise a family in vegas so gotcha cool did the um were you pretty well prepared before your a school uh because you already knew how to weld a bit before you got in the navy yeah it was um it was uh pretty cool because i showed up and i had been welding already since i was like 16 and i was 19 at the time that i was in a school so you know that was like two and a half, three years of experience already. And then also I was in, uh, um, if you guys are listening at home, know anything about the Navy, I was in the ATF program, advanced technical field. So I signed a six year contract for automatic E4 and a guaranteed C school, uh, for six years, signing for six years. And so I didn't fully understand what that meant,

but I knew I wanted to be a welder and I thought I wanted to do 30 years. Excuse me. But while I was there, yeah, it was definitely much easier for me for the welding. What's funny is like as a whole tech, we do very little welding in school. Like because we're such a jack of all trades. We're welders, we're carpenters, we're we're such a jack of jack of all trades we're welders we're carpenters we're

plumbers firefighters um you you name it the trades um and we pretty much have our hand in it so uh so you know they can they have to and then also we're in engineering so we have to learn the engineering side of the navy and everything like that so uh there wasn't much welding but yeah there's like two weeks that we did a welding. I was like, okay, finally something that I'm good at. Yeah. And making E6 that fast is, is great. Like I made E5 right before I got out. I was in just under six years. I was definitely one of those folks that did not take the promotion process

serious the first few times. And I was like, Oh, and then not to me but when i made uh e4 uh and then my buddies didn't i really and they were like you know a little snarky because you know that it changes things depending on your on your pals and things and you're like oh okay yeah maybe i maybe i want to put a little more time and effort into this stuff i was a corpsman so it was like okay did i study all the different gases that can kill us all the random stuff which i get is important at some point but it's amazing what they put on the on the advancements these games the that contract too sounds great like uh a guaranteed c school and yeah for listeners so usually go in right boot camp at a schools your basic you know if you qualify for that some folks don't even qualify for that but um here's your basic trade

so like i went to core school and then the c school was like all right what's your advanced on top of that uh and get to get that guaranteed and guaranteed before is pretty amazing but uh you still got to put a ton of work in especially to make to make e6 it sets you up to be like a an lpo for a whole you know section that's awesome man leading yeah i was uh man i made e6 and I was like 24 years old. So I was like, so I was like, Holy crap. I can't believe I'm an LPO. I'm 24 years old. I'm telling these guys that are older than me what to do, you know, writing them up, writing evals and stuff like that. And I would have never experienced that level of leadership if it wasn't for the Navy. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah for sure how did you find uh

folks received that the mixed bag um no i never really no i never i never had any anyone that really had any animosity towards me i was a young cocky kid and it was when i probably made e6 that it finally started to be be be a little more level headed. Okay. But like as a third and second class, I knew my shit didn't stink. I knew I was good at what I did and I let it get to my head. And,

uh, I definitely didn't burn any bridges, but I probably could have had better relationships with the people I worked with if it wasn't for that kind of that attitude. But then once I made E6 and i like the whole dynamic of my career changed because it became way more political it wasn't necessarily fun for me anymore right and so i i kind of just approached it as well there's no reason for me to take a lot of this stuff too seriously because it's just not for me anymore so i just try to build a lot of

like personal relationships with people even when you know there was conflict within my office or i had to reprimand someone or something like that for messing up i try to do it as like humanly as possible because you know i'm sure you experienced it in the military uh a lot of guys they get that power trip of you know they're like i tell you what to do and you listen to me and you messed up and you're a piece of trash and you know, that like, I tell you what to do and you listen to me and you messed up and you're a piece of trash. And you know what I mean? I'd never really, I never approached it that way because I didn't like when people did that to me and it's very dehumanizing and we're already in away from our families in stressful environments, doing hard work. We don't need to

add that dynamic of shit. And now I can't even make a mistake because, well, you know, my LPO, my chief or whatever, my supervisor is just going to take it to the extreme. You know what I mean? So,

uh, once I picked up and was like an LPO, I was like, you know, like, look guys, we're all humans. We're adults.

We have lives outside playing stuff. And so I just try to approach it that way. And, uh I was a real young cat, it was, I think that's really what helped out a lot to build rapport with everyone that I was in charge of. That makes, that makes sense. Yeah. So I learned that lesson too, where I was in, I think it was in core school and, you know, they, they have kind of your temporary, you can be the lpo of the class or assistant i was one of the assistant petty officers for the class um and yeah i let it get get to my head a buddy of mine like was joking around we're supposed to be in formation etc and and i totally did like the what do you do raising voice and then down the line when i was lpo of like critical care and everything you're like dude it's not it's not about that at all

it makes no difference right but but great lesson i I got to write a nice five-page paper on leadership from my core school class proctor who was like, hey, we heard this thing happen. I was like, yeah, sorry, and knew it. So, yeah, good lessons learned. And to your point, I was just listening to Jocko Podcast, and he's got another military leader on there talking about the skills you take from the military, right, leadership being one of them, which is huge. And it's so true.

And so it seems like your transition from the Navy career wise is pretty directly applicable to what you do now. Were you able to make good connections with kind of the civilian side of the house before you were discharged? Yeah, I thought thought and that was another thing i thought i wanted to i worked at a um in banger washington i worked on the submarines and you know i worked side by side with civilians and so when i got there i was like oh man this is what i want to do when i get out so i'm going to try to be as you know nice as possible build a lot of relationships with these people. And after working there for like six months, I was like,

this is not what I want to do. These people get treated worse than we do. They get told that they're working the weekends. They have no, they don't have a choice. You know, they have to basically put in leave requests like the military does and they can get denied. And I was like, this is not for all the guys that all those civilian guys that i worked with they're all like in their late 40s early 50s still doing the same job that they did when they were hired at 20 years old you know what i mean yeah i was like i was like this is just what am i why would i want to do this like i'm take i should take the opportunity to pursue something else. And, uh, um, and I'm glad I did. Cause I didn't, I ended up not working. I ended up going

back to the government after a couple of years, but you know, it's, you guess, job instead of, I work at a behind the desk now. Uh, but I, I think it would have absolutely ruined me if I would have stayed in the shop like I was. So, was like, nah, this ain't for me, bro. Gotcha, yeah. What do you think is the best lesson you took from your time in the Navy? Best lesson, that's a great question. I know one is probably hard, but that's why I asked it.

Yeah. I don't know. I think the best lesson I learned is is it was probably after I left the Navy and I started to realize that the Navy does the same thing has been doing the same thing for years uh you know we work the same duty sections we do the same maintenance we do all this stuff and I feel like the a lot of people just accept the standard quo because that's how it's always been done. Right. And I left the military realizing that like, man, it's so efficient, inefficient the way that they do a lot of things. And it made me realize

that, you know, you should listen to junior people. You should come on, bring on new ideas. Um, don't, don't't don't gatekeep information. Like, you know, if there's a better, easier way to do it, you should 100 percent try it out. You know, and it doesn't work. It doesn't work because I felt like my time in the Navy, man, like you just I'd sit there. I'm like, why are we doing this? Like, yeah, you know what I mean?

I'm like, this doesn't make any sense. Absolutely. We work in 18 hours a day. Like, why are we not able to go home and see our family for two three days at a time because there's so much work that got to be done you know so i think that was my biggest lesson is like just because it's been done the same way for so long doesn't mean it has to continue to be done the same way you know what i mean so that was a big eye opener in the civilian world when i worked in the private sector if they saw any efficiencies it was like well don't do that like that's going to cost us money

you know what i mean adult rules came into play and you're like oh yeah yeah and so that's when i worked in a i worked for a private engineering firm after i i left the navy and dude they were like they're like no like figure out a good way to do it that's gonna increase profits but still get the job done you know because navy doesn't see it like that they're like how bad can we make it suck for everyone yeah for sure there's i mean you know having a company that needs to make money is a big driver and and that but you know money drives innovation it's not necessarily a bad thing right So I think that's a big deal. Yeah, that's a good point.

Plenty of stuff. And hopefully, you know, over the past, at least, you know, a couple of decades of combat time, things have changed and got more efficient, but I'm sure there's plenty of stuff that's still done the same way just because and all that. So that's cool. So yeah, Navy, definitely a lot of good lessons,

good opportunity for folks out there. Not even if you don't have other options, I'll say. It's just a good option, honestly, in any military branch. And I think that seems to be creeping in a little more these days of not like, okay, you have to go to school and you have to go to college. You have to go to college, like trade schools, the military, other services, maybe take time. I don't know. It seems, I feel like I've seen it unless it's just, I don't know, the pages I read or people I talk to

good because there's no guarantee that you're going to go to college, come out with debt and then get a great job anyway to pay off that debt. So yeah, that's like, I'd tell my son right now is, uh, my oldest son is like 14 and I'm like, dude, just do four years. Like you don't understand the amount of benefits you get for just four years of your time. Like you should 100% do it. And say you joined the 18, 19, you get out at 22, 23, like you can still go to college. You can still, you know, start a whole nother career. And now you have a lifetime of benefits from it i just i just think it's a uh i'm not for mandatory service but i do think the youth doesn't

appreciate what you do get for just four years it's high school literally an extension of high school yeah and hopefully you have the smarts to save your money which probably won't happen like i think back now i'm 49 now so one I'm one of the older folks you talk about on your podcast about older grapplers. Yeah. And yes, I'm on supplements for joints and all that good stuff. But yeah, thinking about like I could have knocked out 20 like 10 years ago, you know,

because I went in when I was 19 and things like that. So yeah, it's definitely, if you go in and do the time, I used the GI Bill and the college fund because they needed Corman when I went in. So it was like, oh, and I get this. Yep. And so it covers a ton of it and it's great. And honestly, I wasn't ready for school

when I was younger anyway. So when I went back to school, I was probably, I think it was 31 or something. I just had like a six month old. So I'm like writing papers with the baby of yours. You know, like that. And so sitting in class and and also perspective right when you hear some of the questions people ask and you're like he he or she just said that i'm just like i get it i'm older but like they literally just said that i don't use literally a lot because that's also

an overkilled but uh but yeah it's it's it's a benefit And yeah, to your point, you'll get to see places. You might have a sucky however many years. Because some people, it isn't for them. And it is eye-opening, right? They've never had challenge, maybe real challenge. They get there. I saw people freak out in boot camp and you're like, and we're not even really into it yet. And boot camp's really not that hard.

But I've been there, so it's different than maybe someone that's going going but but it's it's for sure worth it the benefits you get uh financially just overall professional benefits i think yeah absolutely when i was uh like to your point too uh college wasn't for me when i was younger and uh i'm glad i didn't go because i don't think i would have been nearly as successful as I was afterwards. Yeah. But yeah, during the pandemic, I decided to join college and got my bachelor's degree through the pandemic. 100% remote, two babies.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Full-time job and everything like that. I would have not been nearly able to do that if I would have joined or done it any sooner than I did. So that's great. Yeah. And shout out some, some crazy support from the spouse. I know shout out to my wife. Like that's how I could do it. Right. From them. So in addition to the Navy's money, also the household support is pretty big deal. So yeah. And having that extra money from the GI bill too. She was like,

can you go back to college? Is there any left on that? Yeah, seriously. It does go fast though. College is expensive. Very true. Very, very true. But good stuff. Let's jump into that jujitsu.

How did you get into jujitsu? Like what? So I wrestled a little bit in high school. So grappling has always been kind of like in my history. And then when I moved up to Washington, the guy that owns our academy and our gym, Cody Smith, he's a former undefeated MMA fighter and jujitsu blue belt at the time. And he was talking about opening up a jujitsu academy again

because he wanted to train oh cool and so when when he mentioned it to me i was like dude if you do that i'm like i'm in there like swimwear bro like nice you know i'm ready to do it so he opened the academy and uh day one i've been going to the same academy okay been training now for five years coming up so three stripe blue belt and then been a blue belt for three years maybe coming up on three four years so

it's scary dude it's scary the parallels we have almost the same almost the same track about four and a half years blue belt yeah about two and a half years or so uh or yeah maybe a little longer but um the yeah and what's the name of the academy you train at uh virtuous virtuous grappling virtuous grappling you guys are really nice to each other when you're strangling

each other yeah yeah yeah you uh you know you're very respectful you You say, yes, sir, no, sir. No, I'm sorry. Like, no, yeah. Yes, Virtuous Grappling. It was Pacific Northwest Jiu-Jitsu, but Cody rebranded the academy and the CrossFit side. And so it's just all under the Virtuous name. And because our black belt is a lifelong wrestler, he's a wrestling coach now for high school.

So we have a lot of wrestling influence. So Cody didn't want to limit it to jujitsu. So that's why he threw grappling in there because we do a lot of wrestling stuff too. Yeah, which I think you have to to balance it out, which I'm sure we'll touch on here in the whole gi versus no gi kind of thing. Not verse, but balance.

But it's interesting that you said that, that he was a blue blue belt at the time but then it sounds like was under a black belt because when you think about what do you think about like 20 years ago blue belts and starting schools or purple belts had their own school because there weren't many right or 2025 it's probably longer now but and then now you're like wow that's that's very unique and interesting but he with did mma was a belt, but then was under a black belt that was kind of over the school. Yeah, our first black belt, he was a third degree. He came out, and we were under him for maybe six months.

And Cody's values and his didn't really align once the Academy started. So we dropped him and was just, Cody was a purple belt now. He got promoted to purple belt once he opened the Academy. Oh, wow. And it was just us and Gracie combatives and Gracie online. We just came in and Cody would study the curriculum before class. We would sit there and we would do, you know, super basic Gracie fundamentals for probably about the first year, two years. Uh, yeah, probably about the first year. And then we had a brown belt show up, our old professor Al and, uh, he took over and he started training us and he got his black belt.

And so we were under him for a little bit of time. And then the pandemic hit and, uh, he took a hiatus because he had family members that were, uh, high risk. And so he kind of like stopped coming around and, and then one day, uh,

Sean, our current black belt came in and just mopped us up and down the mats funny how they do that we're like man i thought i was a pretty decent blue belt and he showed up and he's like man he's like who gave you guys your belts bro and i was like what yeah yeah uh and looking back at it now, like, yeah, dude, I would like, even with me training less, not being in as good a shape, I would absolutely smash my Travis, fresh blue belt, Travis. Like, you know what I mean?

It's just, my game is completely different. You know, he's a Carlson Gracie guy. So it's a whole lot of like pressure you know letting them cook uh kind of just like meanness that we didn't have before because it was kind of like a stoner surfer or jiu-jitsu you know what i mean like kind of like flowing it's like it's like three different things it's either like 10th planet gumby it's like stoner kind of nerd science people or wrestling athlete people like there there's maybe a few more outliers, but yeah, there's like big chunks for sure. You know, it's interesting you say that.

Cause so my professor now Tim Manning is directly from Henzo Gracie from the blue basement, which is crazy to see pictures of him with like John Danaher and Matt Sarah. And like, you're like, this is, this is what we read about on the internet and books and things like that. And it's exactly that, like the, you know, at our academy. And then, you know, from Henzo, it's like smash, pass, submit. So where I came from, it was still really high level jujitsu players,

but it was like, we did listen to reggae when we rolled and it was a little more chill. And I mean, they could still murder me, but different than like, I'm going to crush your soul until you move your leg out of the way. And I'm going to pass you. You're like, which teaches you.

Cause to your point again, same thing, new blue belt. Kev got tapped out by a super aggressive white belt. Not long after I got my blue belt and I'm like, God. And now, yeah,

I was like, I would just, I would ask, which is, which is the genius of jujitsu to me, because even, even a six month person could murder themselves brand new, right?

White belt. There's an immediate, you know, feedback and Andrew Smith, the guy revolution BJJ, where I started said this too. There's a pretty immediate, immediate feedback loop or immediacy to jujitsu.

Like I can, I can show someone the basics and, and we can practice that for like a month and you're going to school someone that just walks in. You're just gonna just, and it doesn't make sense sense like do you point about the black belts there's a guy one of our black belts that teaches me in the mornings i do morning jiu jitsu and um you know he's 160 pounds he actually just fought yesterday so now i know exactly how much he weighs which makes me feel worse but that's right because i'm 205 and i'm like i'm a grown man i'm decently

strong and i thought hey i know but i just know i'm gonna get the gentle the gentle murder that's yeah what i'm rolling on the mat but but i love it because you're like man and i think one great thing is you get to be a more mature blue belt at least is you can i can feel when i'm screwing up i'm like oh my arm's out there oh my neck you know and and yeah and try and go oh did i save myself or not like nope go crucifix you and you look yeah but um but it's yeah it's it's it's pretty cool so that's yeah that's neat man uh the timeline and um how have you have you experienced the uh the old blue belt blues um yeah i would uh i would say so i wouldn't necessarily say blue belt blues um probably just

more of lack of motivation and you know it's your blue belts are your longest belt right so like i mentioned like i've been been a blue belt for like three and a half years and uh i've gone through my ebbs and flows my ups and downs you you know, jujitsu is a roller coaster. Sometimes you're climbing to the tippy top and then you're like, man, this is great. And then, you know, you just hit it, you know, you just go for a downward spiral, whether it's like training, uh, motivation, injuries and stuff like that. So I've, I've gone through my own. And what really changed was when, um,

I was, I was in a rut. I was like, man, I'm sucking. I'm just not having fun training. I'm not enjoying what we're learning. It wasn't even necessarily what we were learning. I just wasn't mentally there. I kind of re-approached training to just being like, dude, what does it matter?

Like you're doing it for fun. I don't ever plan on being a world champ. Right. Like why am I being so hard on myself during training? Like, you know, it's like I have, uh, when I first started, um, my wife and I weren't even married. You know, we lived together. We were still dating.

Um, and my son was like, my oldest son was like, uh, maybe 10 years old when he started training with me. Yeah. And, uh, so it was, it was a completely different dynamic. Now, you know, I'm in my mid thirties, I have three kids, a full-time job. I'm busy. You know what I mean i mean so it's like i had this like whole perspective change of like i don't even care i just want to have fun i don't want to go to jiu-jitsu and be like like it's like a daunting task for me you know what i mean like um and so once i changed that that that view and i started going to class and i just i really just started like messing around in roles.

You know what I mean? And like, like I would try stuff or like get submitted and stuff, but, uh, it was never, it was never, it never got, it hasn't gotten to be since, you know, there was one, but there was one night where I was, uh, training with Cody, our school owner, who's a brown belt now. And, uh, I hadn't trained in like a week or two because of life and i would he was just like smashing me man i was like holy crap i have like no nothing for you tonight like no answers no attacks like my defense isn't there you know what i mean just one of those nights and uh and i you know i uh, and I, you know, I was like driving home, like, you know, reflecting on it. And I was like, why am I so upset with

myself? Like, is it because in my head it was like, there's, it's probably two reasons. One reason, uh, is am I, am I thinking I'm better than I am? You know what I mean? Like, am I, am I looking at myself? Like I should should be better like i've been doing this for so long and cody just smashed me i had nothing for him right and i was like no i was like i know my jujitsu i know that um you know sometimes you're gonna have your ups and downs i was like honestly what it was i felt like a bad training partner you know what i mean like i was like i just didn't have anything for like he's like i felt like i didn't give him anything to work on in that role like he was just like going through the motions with me and that kind of upset me i

was like man i gotta be better for my training partners i gotta i gotta try harder for them like i don't want another role where it's just like me getting smashed the whole time and afterwards they're like you know thanks restaurant randy you know what i mean like for sure that's a good that's a very uh selfless approach yeah i can see your point it's never fun to roll with like a grappling dummy you know i mean where no i get it i the closest i've seen it i've experienced that more as one me similar like if i'm just just a shit day or time or time period chunk of time whatever and it's just like yeah i'm mentally and physically exhausted and i'm just kind of here and do this verse like a brand new person where they're they're bug-eyed they're like oh my god what's happening and they don't know what to do and then i'm like

okay and that's where honestly for that whole kind of breathe frame survive the thing you know that i talk about of was literally like look take a breath because because it sucks i mean as you know when you're new you can't you're like're like, I should, I'm going to die. I've got like all these things, you know, and you're like, here, make some space to do this. Then, then I'll stop. But yeah, that's a great point as well. And it's weird. Isn't it? Sometimes you're like top of your game. What I've, one thing I've found would be interesting to it for you as well is it wasn't

just the jujitsu. It's what else is going on in my life that's affecting that. Cause it's not just these mats and these walls and these folks. Right. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and it's like,

we always talk about like how jujitsu is a very honest thing. You know, there's, there's no, there's no hiding behind anything when it comes to you getting on the mats. If you're having a bad day, it will come out on the mats. If you're having trouble at home, it's going to come out. If you're dishonest, if you're a cheater, whatever it is, the mats expose that.

And it really does because my life was a little bit hard at that point too. Because like I mentioned, I was so busy stressed that because I was gone for two weeks and like everything in my personal life. And so it's being on the mats and feeling like I was, you know, not, not relieving the stress, not, not helping other people. It was just like, it just escalated it. You know what I mean? I was like, man, what am I doing? You know? So, uh, but once again, like then I had a kind of like my shift um of like dude it's okay like don't be so hard on yourself like you're not like i try to tell

people like you're not doing if you're doing this to be a world champ that's something completely different but 99 of us are doing it just because we want to be around people that are like-minded train you know choke each other and have fun because like which is funny because only if you do some sort of grappling art you'd say yeah i just tried not to get choked or my arms broken today and people and it's normal i'll say that at work and you know some people got feedback i've gotten you know since i've been doing jiu-jitsu is how you're so like on when things happen and your voice and i wasn't always that way yeah same and i'm like yeah because literally i just defended people from choking me and from like and it seems a little awkward i'm

like no i'm not joking like okay which gives you a whole different perspective you know between my time as a corpsman in public safety and then particularly jiu-jitsu though because again literally and and you're right if you're if you're rolling and you let the outside world creep into your noggin you're not going to do well unless you know you're that black belt that's just great anyway and even them though you know i'm sure it affects them but um i know i found that i you know it's it's a good window into hey take a look at like your sleep and your hydration and your your stress management and your and your everything else because i know for me like last year i took time off a big chunk,

had like family illnesses and I wouldn't manage my stress, staying up, like all this stuff you're not supposed to do, I was doing. And then I'd wonder why on the mats I would turn away and then freak out and get caught. I'm like, and then you look at those other things and you're like, okay, it gets better. And you do what you're supposed to kind of outside the world and deal with your real world issues. So that then on the mat, it makes a huge difference in what you're able to do. And it's amazing. You can still be in the worst place, you know, mounted.

Like they're, you know, hooked your legs and you're just sitting there like this. Yeah. And then your mind is right there and you're like, okay'm gonna breathe real small which is awful and then try and at least do something or make it around without tapping yeah um yeah and make that space and and there there's i mean we've you and i've probably read them talked about upset them there's so many metaphors for like making space on in in jiu-jitsu but same thing for life i think stress management and and dealing with whatever you're dealing with or just or letting that pain come in because i think that's the value of jiu-jitsu, but same thing for life. I think stress management and dealing with whatever you're dealing with or just, or letting that pain come in. Cause I think that's the value of jujitsu too,

is you're going to get hurt from your, or you're sore. You're not necessarily injured, but you're, you're going to be sore as shit. You're going to like get bumps, black eyes, you know, bruises all over. That's, but that's, that's life. Like life's going to do that to you too. Yeah. Jason Kalipa has a book called the am rep mindset and it's a great book because you know he's a crossfit games champion multiple times crossfit podium and stuff and uh i talked to him on our podcast and uh i was like you know asking him about like the am rep mindset for jiu jitsu he's like he's like bro that is like

the ultimate being his enamored mindset is like being present in the moment right like what are you doing in the moment right like an am rep in uh crossfit is uh as many reps as possible right like you can't think of anything else besides exactly what you're doing at that moment right yeah right and so um and so you know that's that's true because like in jiu-jitsu like you like, you can't think about anything else because you can make one mistake and then, like, you're like, oh, crap, now I got submitted or I messed up or something like that. And jiu-jitsu has really helped my stress and, like, how I handle confrontation and stuff like that, too. Because, like, at work, you know, people are very high strung, you know like in traffic uh people you know speeding and cut you off and i'm like i don't care it doesn't matter you know what i mean and um like even this weekend you know i was like

i was like telling my dad i'm like man like relax dude it's okay like we're just we're hanging out with family you know what i mean like don't like we get there. It's not, it's not none of it. It matters to a point, but it's like, we don't need to be so, um, caught up in the moment of like, ah, you know, so, um, it's, it's helped out a lot in that sense for me too, because I, I, it's hard, it's hard to, to appreciate things when you're always like, like on the edge of the cliff of like stress or anger or, you know what I mean? And being humbled so much like we do in jujitsu, it really just knocks you down a peg constantly. You know i mean like so that's that's a beautiful thing and i always tell people too um i'm like you know at work uh this sounds this might sound kind of bad but

you know i'm sure we all have those confrontational people at work and you know it's like through jujitsu i've learned like you know everyone can be a big, tough guy until there's a threat of violence. You know what I mean? Act all big and bad as you want. It doesn't bother me at all. I'm not even going to give you the time of day. To Jocko's point, too, the second someone touches you, that's different.

Right. Yeah. It is a whole different thing. It is interesting hearing folks, whether it's at parties, we're talking sports stats, I not like a sports set guide or just or they get into those well we're just gonna do this and i'm like awesome and you can tell they've like not walked a mile in years and you're like come on man you're gonna be gassed out like 20 seconds bro i see red and knowing like i'm not anecdotally saying you'll probably gas out. Like, I see it happen all the time, you know. Absolutely.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, we were watching fights, and they were, like, regional fights here in Virginia. You know, even folks that train, you start not just grappling, but grappling and throwing punches. And I trained with our black belt that fought yesterday in one of the rounds at Boxing Club. It was, like, my third or fourth round Fridayiday so i'm already you know feeling it and um and with boxing like you can't grab anything and it felt like so much more claustrophobic like i'm like oh i can't but he wanted to kind of simulate you know people people punching and stuff and it's like man that's it's just a whole nother level when you add one little element to something you actually used to that is

already hard um let alone the perception that people think they're going to John wick everybody just by like, you know, just because they've seen the movie and they have zero training whatsoever. But yeah, that, that humbling piece of jujitsu, it happens every day to everybody that comes in off the street.

And also I think is inspiring. Like we have a guy that started a few months ago. He's 65. He's lost 30 pounds. We have, you you know and then the other spectrum super young real thin guy um so you know and we have that smashy kind of thing and um which is always funny you know being 205 and he's you know probably like 140 150 i'm like and we're the only ones left to partner up alike but that's also i think it's kind of like, to me, akin to maturing in, well, I wasn't an a-hole anyway when I started jiu-jitsu, but I guess I'm less of one now is my point. But like in the Navy, you get a little bit of power and you're a young and immature leader

and you abuse it. And then as you age in the Navy and in leadership, you're like, okay, here's how I should really do this and be a better leader and help people seeming jujitsu to just be like, Hey, you know, let's talk through some things. And, and you know, I'm, I'm not really putting all my weight on you. Cause I know that sucks. Yeah. Seeing me on belly to arm bar and I'm like, you know, 200 pounds.

You're like, or something like that. But I think that it's cool to me to see the maturity, also the maturity of people that you start with. And then to your point, you know, or what we talked about before, the lows of jujitsu, some of that can be just like in the Navy and in life. Well, they got promoted before me. Well, what did they do to get there? And like for me, you know, I missed a chunk of time last year too

and don't go as much as some of these other folks. And they're getting better than me or have. And it's like, why am I going to be hurt by that? They put extra time in. They've been consistent. And just like anything else in life, that pays off to not just rank up, but just be better. When you're like, holy crap, I can see that happening now. Yeah, I just interviewed Gustavo Dantes, who's a sixth-degree black belt.

Thank you. And I always finish my interviews with people, you know, what's your one tip for a brand-new white belt? Yeah. And he gave a perfect one. I thought it was fantastic. It was my drone business. Don't worry about what other people are doing don't

worry about people's dreams uh it's it's you on the mat like it's you that has to put in the work like it doesn't matter if someone started at the same time as you got promoted faster than you or got a stripe and you didn't you know what i mean like what does it matter that's that has nothing to do with you if you didn't get it promoted you have to do some self-reflection on like, why, you know, it makes you have that like accountability issues. Like, okay, well, was I training hard enough? Like, did I actually deserve a promotion? You know? And I feel like even like in business, um, that's hard for people to do, right? They see someone else get a position and they're like, they're like, Oh, why did they get it? I applied for the job. How come I didn't get it?

It's like, well, maybe because you weren't good. Reality check. There's usually a reason. Yeah. You know, and you know, when you, when you can't run away from, if you're good or not, it's really hard to stop ignoring it. You know what I mean? It's like, well, I can make excuses because X, Y, and Z. There's all the jokes like, oh, it's because he was 10 pounds heavier than me.

Oh, it's because he was 10 pounds. Oh, it's because he has a belt or two higher than me. You know what I mean? It's like, well, yes and no. What are you going to do about it? like well yes and no yeah you know what are you going to do about it how are you going to improve to not have that happen and having that that mindset because jujitsu is is a game changer man because you can literally carry it over into every aspect of your life which you know made me think of when you're talking about you know

a competitor versus what a lot of folks call a hobbyist, which I don't know why being called a hobbyist is offensive a little bit, even though it is kind of a hobby. Is it a lifestyle? You can call it a journey. We can use all the buzzwords that people say about jiu-jitsu, but I feel like if I'm willing to, which I am, regularly pay to go pit myself against other folks

and learn hard things and grow. That is way more than a hobby to me right now. I'm not seeking medals. I've competed a few times and I kind of get the analogy, but I don't know. It's kind of a weird thing that popped in my head, you know, cause you hear it. You're like, well, I'm not just a hobbyist. And you're like, yeah, but also like to, and to the point, like, well, you have fathers and mothers that are going there in their time while they're also working, while they're this and that. So, you know, it's different than building models. Right. Which is challenging in its own right, but but very different.

So it was just kind of a funky one of my one of my funky things. What what do you think? I think we've touched on some of them. If you could kind of pick one benefit with jujitsu, what would be your the biggest thing you would say? Someone was like, well, hey, why do you do jujitsu? What would be your, the biggest thing you would say if someone was like, well, Hey, why do you do jujitsu? What's the thing it does for you? I always say that the biggest thing that I get out of jujitsu is the community, the camaraderie. I think a lot of the vets I talked to also, the reason they like martial arts is because the going through adversity with someone, you know what I mean? Like, um, like in the military, we, we, we go through hardships with a lot of people, you know, and that's why we build that, that brotherhood, that sisterhood between people so

strongly because we have, we go through a lot of hard things, you know, and, uh, we're away from our families together and whatnot. And it's not, it's not a perfect parallel with jujitsu, but you know if you're constantly challenging yourself with the same people over and over again you build a strong relationship and that's my biggest my biggest benefit to jiu-jitsu is the community that is built around it the friendships um it's it's the closest thing that i've had to the military. Um, and it's, that's, that is the best part. If I feel that's what keeps people around training, because if you have a terrible community in your academy, it doesn't matter how many medals your black belt has. It doesn't matter how many competitions you

go enter when, uh, how many times a week you train, if you don't enjoy the people you're going to be around, you're not going to stay so i feel the community is the the biggest benefit that comes from jiu-jitsu also if you are in a good community say you have a lot of knowledge and stuff like that that's a huge benefit if you're around people that want to grow want to learn yeah like that's such a huge benefit you know um but yeah there's definitely that that's a good point yeah i mean it you you become a better leader and follower at the same time, right? You know, because even to your point, like, you know, newer folks can have some trick and they're like, how did you do that?

Or something to your point. So I think like you mentioned earlier, like listening to newer folks and things like that, you know, it makes a big difference. What would you say is the most frustrating aspect of jujitsu? Man, where do i begin right yeah no i uh i don't it's hard to say like i would probably say those those times when um you do have your lows and you're say you're crushing it you know and it's just those those one those one days like in a every couple months where you're say you're crushing it you know and it's just those those one those one days like in a every couple months where you're just like nothing's clicking right like you're like you're looking at your belt like should i put a different color like should i derank myself should i take a

stripe off those are that's the most frustrating part right um the imposter syndrome that you everyone goes through it. Everyone's going to go through it when, when they're doing jujitsu. Um, and it's, it's completely normal, but it's definitely those days of, uh, like, what am I doing with myself? Like, why am I still doing this? You know, those, those are hard, but everyone goes through it. You just gotta just face it head on and, and just keep showing up because it's not going to be like that forever. So. Yeah.

Show up and go home and cry in the cold shower when you get there. That's right. Or in the car, just sit in the car and put on like, like Sarah McLachlan and just sit there and cry in the arms. Yeah, for sure. Instead of a, instead of a pad, it's you and your gait spaghi or rash guard. The most frustrating part,

one of the most frustrating parts is also taking a wet rash guard off. That is terrible. I hate that. It's like a wetsuit, but grosser. It's not just the seawater. Speaking of that which which do you prefer uh gi or no gi or do you have a preference um i'm mostly training you right now that's just because once again i'm only able to train two times a week maybe three times a week as it is

and yeah um our black belt doesn't do nogi necessarily which is funny because he's a predominantly a wrestler but um yeah he's he's big into gi he only comes to gig classes he doesn't teach i think we've done maybe one or two nogi classes with him okay our one of our blue belts teaches the nogi stuff so uh i typically train gi right now but i do enjoy no-gi i enjoy the athleticism i enjoy the the explosiveness of it and you know it's a whole lot of fun um but i would say gi right now is is what i'm more into similar yeah yeah for more primarily do gi i think it's good for for the older grappler i can hold on to things and slow those youngsters down and then i'll throw usually my problem is when i do no gi it's it's

our open mat so all the big dogs are there that compete and fight and it hurts a lot more but i'm like but yeah to your point and there is the cool thing is it does translate i mean like i'll i'll be like man my nogi sucks and like oh i can actually kind of be wrassly if i need to instead of you know grabbing whatever uh but it is you know that's one thing uh my professor tim man and said you know balance it right try and do a bit of both um but you know it's a life balance it's good time like can you go you're going in the morning the evening one of the classes you know do you have time to go to the open mat um i would say that's one thing that i would recommend for everybody is if you have open mat

to go and roll with folks who's your role with um because you one you you'll learn each other's game which is cool i mean you can still outsmart each other and get each other whatever you know and quote win the role or whatever but but really to to have somebody and sometimes it seems like there's like two different academies right like the am and the pm group or the folks that show up you're like wait you you go here i haven't seen you for a while so it's cool to get you know a different a different flavor of of roles in and and and to your point help kind of level set and maybe reset yourself if you're like oh i'm like dominating my class and then you go there like oh shit yeah purple belt is or that's what a high level blue belt is you're like oh damn there's

a whole different you know it's a different spectrum so that's cool yeah but um yeah so so jujitsu you talk about jujitsu quite a bit uh outside of jujitsu which every jujitsu person does but you do it on a microphone and yeah so that's pretty cool so how'd you what was the kind of catalyst that said you know what we should we should, we should talk about this. And you started with your buddy, John, uh, elbows tight podcast. What was the catalyst to get y'all out there? So when, when John and I first started, we just felt like there were, we listened to podcasts and it felt like all the jujitsu podcasts were guys that have been doing it for 10, 15 years, high level guys, uh,

or higher level of belt and i was like man no offense to these guys but uh they're not going through what i'm going through right now they they i'm sure they remember it but they don't they're not in the trenches of the white belt days and so john and i started our podcast at um as white belts because we wanted to capture our journey through jujitsu and capture what we were going through and talk to other white belts about um what they're going through and you know kind of like build that that community around like hey we're there with you like if you had like listen to this guy he's here with you too you know what i mean so um we didn't feel like there

was any real resources that uh white belts or you know maybe brand new blue belts were putting out there you know good information talking to other like-minded people and so we felt there was a a good reason to start one and just kind of like document ourselves and and talk to uh you know when we first started it was all white belts we we talked to maybe one or two blue belts okay so the first um the first 12 episodes are all white belts we we talked to maybe one or two blue belts okay so the first um the first 12 episodes are all white belts one blue belt two blue belts and then we had a brown belt who's now a black belt and then it was more white belts until basically the pandemic uh so i think episode 30 was when we really like kind of stepped out of like the typical white belt and we started

interviewing people outside of our community and uh started talking to you know higher level black belts because they do have a good insight on how you can get through it obviously um so the the it kind of shifted from documenting our journey and other white belt journeys to more of being a resource that newer practitioners can come to, to hear how to get through these things or, uh, what they should be doing to rank up, get better, uh, you know, roll better and stuff like that. So I've been doing it for like four years now. That is a great idea of, um, you know, white belts on white belts right because to your point plus then you're in and i imagine it was a challenge like hey we're white

belts and we're going to talk about jujitsu when everybody else is colored high level belts right talking about jujitsu and there's some you know there's some shade that's thrown about well you shouldn't talk about it because you're just like on youtube the other things are oh yeah you read right um so that's a bold thing and awesome, right? Like, hey, we're all walking this together. What was more of a challenge, being a new podcaster or being a white belt? At the same time.

It was definitely being a white belt. Podcasts came to me pretty easily because I mean, as you can tell, I don't stop talking most of the time. It's not a shy fella. Yeah, I enjoy talking to people. Uh, I made online content since like 2017,

2016. And so it wasn't like making content. Was it new to me? Um, and so the, and I was like very, I've been passionate about it since day one. So like when you have that passion and that excitement to do it,

it's much easier to do it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, for sure. So, but wrapping that white belt around my waist was definitely is way way harder for me you know some people might say podcasting because you know they don't know how to have a conversation in the sense of like interviewing people or providing value to people but it even just like jiu-jitsu with time you you learn you know you get you get one percent better every time but you know a year later you're going

to be miles ahead of where you were so that's a good point that's kind of like the you'll find out even if you're if you're good at something can you teach that thing right which is not one in the same necessarily but you can certainly learn to um yeah you know that's that's an interesting point like you know talking to other people even talking by yourself um i feel like makes you be able to talk to people in the real world better yeah you know what i mean because you're like oh either i sounded like crap right here i did this or ums and pops and all that all the stuff right when you're listening you're like oh what are they doing you know and you're judgy listen to people's sound quality or whatever. And I go, oh,

I just did all those things. So then you're in a Zoom meeting going, you know, oh, smooth or, you know, this or that talking about different things. If there's other folks out there, and again, everybody, Elbow's Type Podcast, check it out. Start listening from the beginning. What is an early lesson on the podcast side that you would share with somebody else interested in podcasting about whatever? When it comes to actually podcasting. You know what? I want to do a podcast because those guys made it sound easy.

Spend a little bit more money than you think you need to on gear. John and I, when we first started, I kind of was like trying to go as cheap as possible and i ended up buying i have like three of everything now because i've just slowly upgraded over time which which has been nice because you know i didn't make that up for a cost but if i would go back i would i would now I know what a good median is to where you're going to get, you know, much higher quality than what we were having. Uh, even like your mic, the audio technical AT 2020, that thing is amazing. You know what I mean? So, um,

which is a very reasonable price microphones. They went like a hundred bucks, 120 bucks. Yeah. And so, um, I would spend a little bit more money than you think you need to. And, and also, uh, just press record. Don't overthink it. Like, you know, we, I was doing so much research before we released our first episode. They're like, Oh, if you're going to do in a podcast, you got to have three episodes in the bank. You got to have a, you got to have a trailer, have cover you got to have a you got to have a trailer have cover art blah blah blah all that can come later none of us like if you're starting it and you're not a big name none of that matters just get started like you can always update your

cover art i'm going john left the podcast he left the company uh he left the business so uh now i'm going through a complete rebranding but i have all that back catalog of content that, you know, is still going to have the new branding on it. You know, it doesn't matter that if my logos changed over the years, uh, it doesn't matter if I have my cover arts, not the same. Uh, you just, once again, you just get 1% better. And the only way to get 1% better is by just doing it. So don't overthink it. You just, once again, you just get 1% better. And the only way to get 1% better is by just doing it. So don't overthink it. Just go, just have fun. It's a blast. That's a great point. Yeah. And it's nice because you know, that stuff's pretty evergreen, right?

Cause Jiu Jitsu is going to be around for a while. You know, your conversations with folks have, you know, beyond Jiu Jitsu value of just how to talk to people. And then that the podcast aspect is, is a great point of, you know, the paralysis by analysis thing is, is real. And, and some of the, I know some of them, either I've got most feedback on or most, you know, downloads, um, is one is like me in a car, like, Hey, I had this great idea when I was like on a trip. So I hit record. I was like, you know, I'm just going to put that out. And it's, it doesn't sound like this. It doesn't sound like

the audio technica. Um, but people reacted to it because it's it's at the end of the day it's the content right in the yeah audio quality yeah if someone tunes in there's clicks and pops and it's like just hard to listen to because it hurts your ears that's wrong but but that's great like just just put it out there and you see that you know both from you and to your point other folks that uh i mean look at even you know, both from you and to your point, other folks that, uh, I mean, look at even, you know, I guess the big dog, Joe Rogan, like if you look at his early stuff, like it was awful looking. And of course now it's a, it's a little nicer than it used to be.

Yeah. It's a $200 million podcast. Yeah. He's probably got some nice equipment. Um, but I mean, you can, like we're to your point, the equipment we're recording now, you know, is MacBook Air, this this your your headphones and the mic you have. It's it doesn't take much. And and just putting stuff in the world has value. Right. So it's going to hit somebody amazingly across the world somewhere. It's going to hit play. And that's a cool thing. When you get into podcasting, whatever platform, it's pretty much the same. Right. It hosts a file and then you can see where people listen to it to see oh someone didn't move by someone in spain someone like you're like it's

just it's pretty cool that that anyone cares to listen to it or do that so yeah absolutely listen to this yeah but uh my phone's about to die kevin i can't charge it because we're outside the hotel so i just don't want i don't want it to die on you and we were having a big conversation. That's cool. Well, you know what? That's a good segue then. So what's the new path for Elbow's Tide?

I know you got some merch, right? You got shirts and mugs and stickers and things. Where do you get that? You can go to Elbow's Tide.com if you want to buy any of our merch. Check our stuff out. Elbow's Tide everywhere. Right now, like I said, I'm in the rebranding.

I want to go more of the apparel side. I want Elbow's Tight to kind of like cross all medians or media. I don't want it to be just a podcast. I want it to be somewhere where new practitioners can go and they can get, you know, relatable gear. They can get, you know, cool shirts and listen to good content and watch good YouTube videos or whatever it is. I want it to be bigger than just a podcast. So that's what I'm doing right now. But Elbowstight.com

is where you can go to get merch. Elbowstight on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, everywhere. So I want to be... When people say Elbowstight and Jiu-Jitsu, I want them to think of me. Awesome. That's what I'm trying to build right now. Spotify, listen up. Even, even in class, people will, will be doing technique and like, and then you're going to keep your elbows tight and everyone looks at me and I'm like, yeah, that's legit. Nice. Right on, man. That's cool.

Thanks so much, man. Thanks for talking when you're on the road. And thanks for, thanks for all the great content, man. I've listened. I'll keep listening. I appreciate it. For being on, I'm sure we'll be in touch and like each other's posts on the line. We're friends.

Yeah, it's official. So, hey, thank you so much for letting me come on and talk to your listeners and be on your platform, man. You're doing great things. Your Breathe, Frame, Survive is the reason I came up with with my three and i forgot what they were because i don't say enough but we'll have it looks like i think we'll have uh i was on the adobe express looking at some t-shirt things too i was like you know what that would make a cool shirt so and a different belt color so there may be some release we'll see and i'll link to this uh cool philip leeds who did

that uh jujitsu artwork he's got a whole bunch of stuff and I'll put all the links to your, your website contacts, all that good stuff on kept up by.com.