The People, Process, & Progress Podcast - Remember Project Managers, It's Not REALLY Your Project | PPP #95

Episode Date: November 21, 2021

This episode was inspired by re-listening Jocko Podcast 98 with Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. In the episode, Jocko, Echo (good evening), and Dr. Peterson discuss the importance of self-evaluation before looking out and judging the world and the differences between tyrannical leadership and leaders who inspire others to want to do work for them. In this episode, I share what I believe Project Managers can do to stay on the opposite side of tyranny and instead build a bonded, collaborative and productive team.

Welcome to People Process Progress, episode 95. When you're leading a project, remember, it's not your project. This episode was inspired by me re-listening to Jocko Podcast 98 that had Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on it. Of course, Jocko and Echo, good evening to them. And the underlying theme of this episode was about sorting out the things for ourselves before we look at the world or others or members of a project team that we, you know, point fingers at or something and getting ourselves squared away. Sometimes squaring ourselves away is hard, right? Getting a tough, you know, truly conducting a self-obsessed and objective after action on ourselves is hard

because one, it's hard for folks to get feedback from outside forces, outside people, outside organizations, but to stop and really look at what you're doing well and what you're not, whether it's early project, mid project, the end of a project, between projects. And in part of the episode, and I'll reference this in the post, of course, but Jocko Echo and Dr. Peterson talk about, you know, this positional leadership, which can potentially be tyrannical leadership, where you can make people do things based on your position for a while, but it's not going to work forever. Versus leaders who build relationships and whose teams want to do work for them. That's a very different thing. And building these relationships is hard. And you know, it can't be accomplished by marking one's territory, so to speak,

right, coming into a meeting and just constantly reminding folks, you're the lead, you're in charge, you're this or that. It's like a dog peeing everywhere all the time, mine, mine, mine, it's no good. And there's telltale signs of that, some sayings, right? Things that people say that imply control from their perspective, right? Because we're confident. We know no one's controlling everybody else. But there's some statements to that, right? Like I've heard other project managers I've worked with, you know, different wherevers or leaders or somebody and, you know, someone's I'm in charge of this project or this is my project.

Right. Really taking not an extreme ownership, like for when things go bad or let me make sure I get that done. But like a protection or tyrannical ownership. And that's no good. Or when you ask questions about something as a PM at risk and issue, how do we do this? And you get the answer, well, these decisions will happen with leadership or that's above your pay grade, right? That's just, who wants to hear that? Certainly, tyrannical, not owning our problems, not being a good leader with good relationships when we use, well, they didn't tell me. Well, no one told me.

Will the team miss this or that? Well, if you're the leader of the team, it's on you. And one thing I really don't like that I've heard a bit recently is I'm going to stop you right there, which implies you need to stop talking so I can say something now. And you know, as PMs, why would we do that to another adult, as leaders, as anybody else? So there are many other examples in these that you all know, that you've heard, right? Scream ego, that scream control. And honestly, if you're kind of in the know, like I'm sure you are listening, it actually screams weakness. It screams, I want to be in charge. I may officially

be in charge, but I'm not confident, right? If we have to make statements like those, then how competent and how confident are we? So how can we avoid these mindsets and realize that we as project managers, we don't own the project, right? We're not going to be there forever. That it doesn't mean we aren't accountable or that we don't care, it means we aren't control freaks and that we need to be comfortable building relationships and enabling the team members, the members of our team, the people that are actually going to do the work. And we're going to be the front people, front men or women, for the good that happens on the project, for the bad that happens on the project.

So how are we going to get into that? Well, I'll share my five tips. But first. Please silence your cell phones. Hold all side we going to get into that? Well, I'll share my five tips. But first, please silence your cell phones, hold all sidebar conversations to a minimum, and we will get started with People Process Progress in three, two, one. Hey, everyone. Thanks for coming back to the show, for going to peopleprocessprogress.com, reading the posts for the episodes, checking out the templates. Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn, Kevin Pinnell, People Process Progress on Facebook, on Instagram. We post about episodes

there and some other interesting things about project management and other areas. So how can we help remind ourselves and just be more efficient project managers that we don't own this project, that we're going to get stuff done, we're going to facilitate, we're going to work hard, but there's no need to mark our territory and act like it's ours, right? The first thing to me is to be confident in what you know and more confident in what we don't know. And so what does that mean to me? So to me, that means I know I can bring teams together. I know and get them to talk to each other. I know I can ask the people that are smart, they can solve the problems. All of that, right? I know I can do that. So when I go into a situation, I'm, I'm totally confident that I can make that happen somehow. And that's not bad. There's a

difference right between confidence and cockiness and arrogance. But I think if you don't go in as a PM confident, or you're showing that whether it's your body language on the Zoom call, their eyes, or the way you talk, or the words or something, then it's also not going to give confidence to your team that you were asked to either lead or have a big part in leading, facilitating the whole process. And so if that's a challenge, just think about, and you know, we're, we're again, talking about Jordan Peterson a little bit here,

the head up shoulders back. So even if your head up shoulders back in your mind, you know, it kind of gives you, you sit up in your seat. It kind of gives you that feeling of more confidence. Even if you're nervous as heck on the inside, nothing wrong with being open and honest with your team, but sometimes a team needs a confident project manager to help them not be so nervous. The other part of that is I need to be more confident in what I don't know,

meaning I am 100% comfortable not knowing everything because sure, I have a technical background and healthcare background and public safety and some of these other things, but if I'm working with people that are currently in that situation while I am a technical background and healthcare background and public safety and some of these other things. But if I'm working with people that are currently in that situation, while I am a project manager, will I draw on that to kind of help maybe frame some things? Sure. But will I rely on the other folks that are currently in that position and know more of it? What's going on there now? Absolutely. And that's totally fine. In fact, not knowing can get you the resources

that you absolutely need instead of kind of guessing and hoping that you get the right thing. So for me, the first thing is be confident in yourself, right? And what you know how to do and build on that. And then be know that you don't know everything and be totally comfortable with that, right? Not nervous about it or upset about it or apologetic about it. It just is. Because after this project, the stuff that you didn't know, you'll know next time. Good stuff. So the second one should be kind of obvious. But I've seen folks treat other adults, not like adults, right. And the second thing for me is, is that these are adults, these aren't our kids. So we don't need to treat them like kids, we don't need to hover over their shoulders like kids. In fact, I don't hover over my kids' shoulders unless they haven't been listening

or something. We need to enable people with the information, give them the tools and the supplies and the time they need, and let them do their work. Now, as project managers, if it's too much time and it's affecting something else, we certainly need to jump in. And there's the trust but verify statement that I've used before. And that's pretty legit, right? So you trust them. You have them do it. But you check in.

You watch it. Because sometimes, right, let's say the team is having big challenges with getting some things done. There's technical things not happening. There's mistakes being made. Maybe you need to step in or get someone else that's a little better at that to help them or if it's something you're familiar with. But at the end of the day, your team is full of adults if you're in the adult workplace. And that's how we need to treat each

other. It's a big deal. And it should be self-explanatory, but you all have probably seen it too, right? You've heard helicopter parents. Well, there are helicopter managers. And it's not helpful. In fact, it makes it more nerve-wracking and it decreases, I would say, the efficiency of people. The third thing for me, and I touched on it just now is include the subject matter experts in developing the solution. Right? I have I've before taken on too much because I thought, Oh, I can do that. But then if you're leading a whole program or a big

project, or, you know, there's just a lot of moving parts in your smaller project, you may not have time to do everything else. So let some of that go. Let your subject matter experts tell you what you should do. Have them drive the schedule. Let them know the stuff that you need and when you need it and throw it back on them, right? So we are accountable as project managers for the overall, you know, scope and cost and time and money and touch on costs, right? The quality, all those kinds of things, but the meat of the project that's going to get done and how it gets done as a subject matter experts, our resources, our people that are going to help us get it done. And we need to really rely on them. And I think

that will help remind us early on before we start the project during the project, when we start getting requirements and tasks and schedules lined up that it's not ours, it is collectively ours, right? It's everyone's. So there's a reason we're going to ask for the engineer. There's a reason we're going to ask for the construction worker. There's a reason we're going to ask for all these other things. It's because they know how to solve the problem, improve the process, whatever it is for this project. And we need to make sure that we include them in getting a solution. The next thing, number four, is something I think is vitally important. And it's harder to do probably actually, well, two things. One to me, it's harder to do in a zoom call with other people. But it's easier to do because you can set up a separate zoom or whatever you're using teams,

etc, call with this person, it's to praise in public and to redirect because I'm not going to say punish in private, right? And so when we praise in public, if you're on a call with leadership and your team has just done a great job on something, you met a milestone, remind the leaders who those people are. John and Jane did a great job setting up this process to get these this new software in and it's going really well. And without them, this project would be failing. Right? When you see suite, here's that when their manager hears that when the other people hear that, one, they appreciate the feedback. And two, they hear those people's names, and it's helpful for them, right? And people people appreciate appreciation. So the the in private, right, is something, is there a time, say we're on a call and something's

not going well. As a PM, certainly I'm going to question if something doesn't seem right on a call. But you can question someone like, oh, yeah, that's going to take three days instead of one when let's say, you know, there's a critical path there and those three days are going to push the entire project back weeks because of the domino effect even more, right? So then I am going to speak up, but it's not like, well, how could you let this happen? Why didn't you tell me? It's what opportunities do we have to still meet the one day versus the three days or the push of weeks or whatever it is? And okay, let's make note of that lets you and I talk about that after this

call. Let's work that out. Or do we lets you and I talk about that after this call. Let's work that out. Or do we need help escalating from other people on this call? Is there someone on this call that can help us answer that question? So facilitate a solution. Don't just berate the person because the news they have isn't good. Now that also is related to the work and the planning and the discussions and the relationships we're building shouldn't be happening during your weekly scheduled project meetings or right, they should be happening between them right daily so if the only time you hear about or know about the tempo of your project is in your weekly project call and you're the project manager that's not good right because we as project managers should

know pretty much everything generally what's happening on the project. We should be in contact with our team regularly and we should not let that gap of the week or however often you have them be a hindrance to us because we're not in contact with folks. So again, that praising in public and redirect in private, right? Don't berate people that are on your team in front of everybody else. The fifth of the things on the list for me to help PMs remember and realize it's not our project, but also just to just be a better PM is don't be an asshole, right? That's a pretty blunt statement. But if we can remind ourselves when we are tired, when we are frustrated, when we are not having a great day, when people did make mistakes on our team, when whatever, all the stuff that happens in project

management in the workplace, the imperfections of all of us as humans, sometimes that frustration bubbles up. And if we can just pop into our heads, don't be an asshole. Take a breath. Listen to the person. Try and get them help. Don't auto-escalate. Play the email game of I'm going to copy you and then your boss and your boss's boss and I'm going to put exclamation points. You know what? Talk to the person. Work with the person. And I haven't been perfect with this either. This is learned behavior over years. But not being an asshole to people pays big dividends. It helps you build better relationships. It helps keep your reputation good. It keeps the morale of your team up when they are going to be tired from, you know, early to mid project stuff through a deadline through go live through afterwards, right,

which is an issue in and of itself that I'll do an episode on in the future. But just try and be a good person to the other people on your team. And I think combined with being confident in what you know, confident in what you don't know, treating people like adults, not kids, including your subject matter experts and developing the solution. Because again, it's not yours, the team's praising your teammates in public and redirecting and getting them help in private and just not being an asshole. I think is an excellent recipe or good steps. And to me, PMs and other leaders have a lot of

challenges, right? We facilitate planning, task completion. You know, we just need to keep in mind the mental alignment of our teams. People are tired these days from all the outside influences from whatever people believe or don't believe, whatever policies their organizations have, the influx, the delays and supplies that are affecting everyone. It's a lot. It's a lot on our minds, on all of us. And that's why this is kind of a short, pretty straightforward thing because it's real to me. I'm sure it's real to you if you're listening to your project manager, even somebody leading some kind of effort in public safety. We should not seek total control when we're on projects whether we have official or delegated authority we're not tyrants we're project managers and our

job is to enable our teams to accomplish the mission to meet the objectives to do the best that we can for the best outcome for the customers that are going to use the new process the new product and you know for me in healthcare it's particularly important because it directly affects patients. For someone in public safety, it could affect the people in the office and the call center that are taking calls for emergencies and on and on, right? The end result is people. We can facilitate that process so that all of us together in the best way possible can make progress. Thank you all. Stay safe out there.

Wash those hands. And Godspeed.