The President's Daily Brief - PDB Situation Report | September 20th, 2025: Inside the Mind of Charlie Kirk’s Accused Killer & TikTok’s Future

Episode Date: September 20, 2025

In this episode of The President's Daily Brief: New details are emerging about the man accused of gunning down Charlie Kirk, as investigators piece together a clearer picture of his life and motives. Former FBI counterterrorism and counterintelligence operative Eric O'Neill joins us with his insight. Washington and Beijing strike a deal on TikTok—but does it really make Americans safer, or does the app remain a national security risk? Senior Research Fellow at The Heritage Foundation joins us to break it all down. To listen to the show ad-free, become a premium member of The President’s Daily Brief by visiting PDBPremium.com. Please remember to subscribe if you enjoyed this episode of The President's Daily Brief. YouTube: youtube.com/@presidentsdailybrief American Financing: NMLS 182334, https://nmlsconsumeraccess.org . APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-885-1881 for details about credit costs and terms. Visit http://www.AmericanFinancing.net/PDB.   Jacked Up Fitness: Get the all-new Shake Weight by Jacked Up Fitness at https://JackedUpShakeWeight.com   Stash Financial: Don't Let your money sit around. Go to https://get.stash.com/PDB to see how you can receive $25 towards your first stock purchase. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Olivia Rodriguez, the unraveled tour, live across North America with special guests. Get tickets Thursday, May 7th at Olivia Rodrigo.com. As the Krispy Chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect.

Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold, I'm juicy. throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me and baby I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet. No. Krispy, saucy and $4? Very.

Only at 711. Valley 36, 2326, participating stores only while supplies last to be out for full terms. Welcome to the PDB Situation Report. I'm Mike Baker, your eyes and ears on the world stage. And yes, coming to you from some nondescript, undisclosed hotel location somewhere in the world. All right, let's get briefed. First up, new details are emerging about the man accused of gunning down Charlie Kirk, and investigators are piecing together a clearer picture of his life and his motives.

For more insight, we'll be joined by former FBI counterterrorism and counterintelligence operative, Eric O'Neill. Later in the show, Washington and Beijing strike a deal on TikTok. Ooh, TikTok. But does it actually make Americans safer, or does the app remain a national security risk? Friend of the show, senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, Steve Yates, stops by for more on that. But first, today's situation report spotlight. It's been over a week since a single bullet cut down conservative commentator Charlie Kirk in

Utah, and investigators are still uncovering the story behind his accused killer 22-year-old Tyler Robinson. According to prosecutors, Robinson's actions were not random, and messages to his transgender partner point to a clear political motivation, steeped in hatred for Kirk, and the ideas he represented. Investigators are now examining whether Robinson's digital footprint reveals a larger network of influence, or if this was the act of a lone gunman driven by ideology. Joining me now is former FBI counterterrorism and counterintelligence operative Eric O'Neill.

He's also the founding partner of the Georgetown Group. Eric, thanks very much for joining us here on the Situation Report. Really appreciate it. It's good to be back with you. Tell our viewers, there's so much. here to unpack, right? But let's start with your perception of the transition from investigation to court case, right? What is that process like? And to what degree is an investigation still going on, particularly on the forensic side? Well, the investigation will continue because right now what law enforcement is looking at is whether there were co-conspirators or those who

gave aid and abetting to the shooter or those who helped plot the attack. So there will continue to be investigations to see if there need to be additional arrests. And as you said, now there's a transition of all of this forensic and very good detailed evidence that will go from law enforcement to the prosecutors so they can build their case. And based on that as evidence, we've already seen that the prosecutors have decided the charges that they're going to bring, although there could still be more in the future. Okay. Now, according to reports anyway, and what the public's being told, Tyler Robinson isn't cooperating. It's not cooperating with authorities,

but family, his roommate or his partner, however you want to describe the individual, and others appear to be cooperating. Talk to me about Robinson's decision. I know it's hard to get into somebody's head like that, but do you think that was advice from his lawyers? Is that an unusable thing because he must know that others are talking. And so it doesn't matter whether he's cooperating or not. Yeah. Unfortunately for Robinson, he is the only one who's not cooperating. It sounds like every single person that is around his circle of friends is cooperating because they must be afraid that the lens of law enforcement could be pointed at them. Now, the Utah governor or the prosecutor has made it very clear.

that they're going to seek the death penalty. So if I were advising Robinson, I would say, don't say anything. And that's not surprising. The reason to cooperate is to try to get a plea deal, but if they're going to go for the death penalty, then what plea deal could he get? True, but if they're going for the plea deal, and I assume this would go to trial, right? There would be a jury. Then couldn't you argue the jury would be influenced by perhaps his decision to cooperate or to be seen as remorseful? Quite possibly. You know, typically in these kind of cases, you see the defendant, the shooter, say,

okay, I will confess and resolve the whole trial problem. And in return, give me life in prison. You know, for example, that was the deal that the spy I caught, Robert Hanson made. You know, he was looking at the death penalty, I think, five or six different ways. he made a plea deal that said, let's take that off the table and I will fully cooperate. And that's typically what you see. And it's quite possible that the attorney, who I understand as a public defender, is trying to push for that right now. What do you make of, I mean, based on the evidence so far, and I don't want to get into a sort of a speculation game here,

but what do you make of the interactions that, at least we've seen so far in text exchanges and discussion in terms of motive? Well, it appears that the shooter, if this indeed is the shooter, of course, it's all alleged until tried and convicted by a jury of his peers. But it looks like he was radical. He grew up with a somewhat conservative family and then went into a lifestyle where he decided that Charlie Kirk was an. enemy and in his mind made himself to be the hero. And that's the real sad thing about this. Sometimes

evil thinks it is doing good. And this certainly seems what happened to this young man. Are you surprised that there's not an effort to, maybe it's a public defender or maybe it would be Robinson himself to kind of portray him as a mentally disturbed individual. Maybe use that as a, I don't want to call it an escape route, but a pathway towards something other than the death penalty. Oh, I am certain we will see that once we get to trial, that they will be filing to say that they need to have a analysis of him. And they'll bring in psychologists who will say that he is not fit to stand trial because he suffers from some mental disorder or another. But on the other hand, he certainly planned this very effectively. And what we do have is the writings of someone who seems to be particularly angry at Charlie Kirk.

and very carefully planned out in execution. And that doesn't suggest to me that this is someone who is unhinged and went off. This would have taken weeks of planning. Yeah, it does appear, I mean, at least, again, we're just going on what's been made to the public. But it does appear that things that he was writing or saying were lucid, right? It wasn't the rantings of an unhinged individual. It seems, right? again.

Right. Lucid, purposeful, and driven toward that single event. I want to switch gears a little bit, if I could, Eric, and get your impressions. And I go ahead, I don't want to play arm's your quarterback. That's not the job here. But there is a hot wash that happens after something like this, right? Where, you know, there has to be. You look at the security arrangements that existed and you look to ensure that the next time, you know, you're mitigating the risks. if you could talk to me about your perception of Charlie Kirk as an individual as someone in society with a very high profile, obviously some enemies, and then talk to me about the

events process and the environment that he was in. Right. Well, unfortunately, I think we've seen the end of these open-air events. I think that you will see speakers that are at Charlie Kirk's level that are controversial and that have death threats against them, being inside where security can better secure every single person who goes into, say, an auditorium. You know, if it's a speaker of that wide renowned, there could also be, you know, a keynote in a Coliseum where you have doors that can be manned by security and checking everyone who goes in. It was impossible to secure that area where Charlie was speaking. and they had too many out buildings. He does not have the security team to do that, even with law enforcement presence.

He would have had to have something like a presidential secret service protection unit in order to sweep the buildings, have counter-sniper. And you saw what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania. Even that wasn't adequate to protect Trump from someone taking a shot at him from a building that the shooter should never have been on top of. A civilian who's hiring his own security and relying on law enforcement that's provided by the state, he doesn't even have that close to that level of security. And you can see how a shooter could get on a roof and take that shot easily. Right. And again, you know, it was fairly well known. Charlie had talked about it himself.

He was receiving or had received death threats in the past, as of a variety of other sort of lightning rods in that arena, you know, pundits or speakers or how you want to activists, however you want to refer to them. And it's, again, speculation, I suppose, but it's not hard to imagine that this kid, Tyler Robinson, you know, obviously clearly must have seen video of Butler and probably was familiar with the campus. I assume looked around there at some point. He probably reckied the campus in the environment there for the speech or the event, looked up, saw a roof, thought about Butler and thought, well, there's a shot.

That's quite possible. And you're right, Mike. He would have had to be on that campus at some point before the shooting because he would have had to determine how far away that rooftop was from where Charlie was going to be. And he would have had to know where Charlie would be when he was speaking where those rooftops were because he would have had to dial in his scope. You can't just lay up with a weapon like that and fire it. You actually have to know the distance.

Yeah, no, exactly. I would assume he's, again, you do the reckey. then you go out and you practice. And look, if he was down in the state church area, that place is wide open space is down there, right? So going out and plinking at a few hundred yards is not uncommon. Eric, a lot more questions to throw your way. But if you could stay right where you are,

we have to take a very quick break. And then we'll be back with more from Eric O'Neill in the Situation Report. All right? Stick around. Hey, Mike Baker here. Let me take just a moment of your time to duck. about personal finances, right? That's an important topic. Look, you may have noticed the cost of everything is still somewhat out of control, right? Grocery bills, utility bills, gas bills, you get the

point. And for many folks, they're relying on credit cards to cover those essentials. Now, if that debt is filing up for you, well, you're not alone. Get this, Americans collectively owe over one trillion dollars in credit card debt. That's right. So by now, you may have considered reaching out to my friends over at American financing, but you hesitate it because you don't want to give up your low mortgage rate. Well, there is good news. They've created what they're calling the smart equity loan. It's a solution designed to help you take control of your finances without touching your current mortgage. That sounds pretty good. Unlike a HELOC, which can have varied interest rates, the smart equity loan offers a fixed rate. That means one predictable monthly payment,

giving you peace of mind. The loan allows you to leverage the equity in your home to pay off high interest debt, free up your cash flow, and keep your existing low mortgage rate intact. It only takes about 10 minutes to get started, and there's no upfront or hidden fees, and that is important. Call American Financing today and start saving now. The number 866-885-1881. Again, that's 866-885-1881. Or just visit Americanfinancing.net slash PDB. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business.

From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and all birds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial at Shopify.com slash special offer. Welcome back to the PDB Situation Report.

And joining me once again is former FBI counterintelligence operative and founding partner of the Georgetown group, Eric O'Neill. Eric, thank you very much for sticking around here on the Situation Report. This may seem like a strange question, but again, sticking with the Charlie Kirk assassination, is there any one thing that has stood out so far to surprise you? or, I mean, again, given your background, you've had a lot of experience, you've seen a lot of things, I'm just wondering whether any one thing stood out so far. Well, so far, you know, after the shooting, is kind of following a very unfortunate outline that we've seen before in these sort of shootings, this anger and this outrage that turns into violence.

You know, one thing that did stand out to me that we've learned the reason why is the fact that the shooter used a bolt action rifle, which would have allowed him to have one shot before Charlie's close protection, moved in to protect him, so he would have had one shot to hit. Well, now we've learned that it turns out that this was a gun that his grandfather gave him. It was a very special weapon, and it's the one he had. I always wondered why he chose that instead of like an AR-15, where he could have gotten off three or four shots in that time, but now we know. Well, I'd like to thank Eric O'Neill, former FBI counterintelligence operative and founding partner of the Georgetown Group for joining us here on the situation report. We had a couple of technical difficulties there during the second

segment. Those were on my side. It happens when you're traveling and you're overseas. But anyway, we'll get them back on soon because this experience and insight is terrific. And we'll have plenty to talk about at that point. But again, thank you to Eric O'Neill for joining us here on the sit rep. By the way, did you know that if you were a premium member of the President's Daily Brief, right now you could avail yourself of a second episode in our brand new series for premium members. It's called The Day the World Almost Ended, which is a very cheery title. I tell you what, it may not be a cheery title, but it's an excellent series. This second episode takes us all the way back to the Cuban Missile Crisis. When we look at the

situation where one man's courage, one man's decision, basically kept the world from blowing up. The whole series looks at days in history when we were on the brink of destruction and somehow managed to pull back. And usually it was because of one person's courage. So again, that's the day the world almost ended. Second episode is making its way to the launch pad, and you can access that by being a premium member, the president's daily brief, just by visiting pdbb premium.com. All right, coming up next, TikTok gets a new deal between Washington and Beijing, but questions remain about whether it actually reduces the risks tied to the Chinese-owned app. Under the agreement, TikTok's American assets will be trained.

transferred to U.S. owners from China's bike dance. The new owners are said to be a consortium, including Oracle, Silver Lake, and Andreessen Horowitz. Still, critics warn that the deal might not erase the app's roots in China or the potential access Beijing has to millions of Americans' personal data. Lawmakers from both parties continue to describe TikTok as a surveillance tool with a video feature, raising concerns that this latest compromise is more political than practical. Joining me now is Steve Yates. He's the Senior Research Fellow for China and National Security Policy at the Heritage Foundation, previously served in the White House for the Vice President as Deputy National Security Advisor. Good friend of the show, snappy dresser, quite witty as well. Steve, it's great to have you back on the Situation Report. Thank you, Mike. Pleasure to be back.

Now, let's, I'm going to start with a big, broad question here. Tell me what's going on with TikTok. Where are we at right now? Well, this has been a slow motion development. There was a very important law that Congress passed that said that the Chinese Communist Party has been using TikTok as a weapon. They've been harvesting our data, manipulating our children, and they have been censoring the truth by way of this tool. And that is all to serve Beijing, the interests, not Americas. And so the Congress, in its wisdom, passed a requirement that the ownership of TikTok's parent company, Biden, divest at least 80% ownership, and that the algorithm and data be in a friendly entity's complete control.

That would address the primary national security concerns out of the ownership and information control elements of TikTok. There's still the broader questions of social media, et cetera. but this was a pretty dramatic move. The President Trump famously and the latter part of his re-election campaign turned to TikTok, which he had not participated in, and his first term had advocated that the app be removed from government phones at the recommendation of his son Barron, saying to engage younger people in the campaign. And after meeting with success in that, they came into the White House and thought,

well, we don't have a deal yet on this, but we don't want to turn this platform completely off. And that's when the search for new buyers came in. There has been a delay in implementation of this law. Some would question the legality of the extensions. But here we are now with a proposed group to buy 80% and follow these requirements, and we're waiting for the deal to sign on the bottom line. Okay. When do you stand on this? Is TikTok in its current state and its current form under its current ownership? Is it a threat to national security? 100% it is, in my view. And I think there's been several use cases that would show some of the risks, but it really comes down to that ownership, data and algorithm, those three elements. And the data part, the data mining is something that goes on in commercial industry all the time. time, there's going to be risks on that. People might have a different line of where that is measurably more dangerous. The algorithm, though, you can manipulate what goes into people's

timelines. One of the acid tests for this is if you look at the algorithm for what content goes to the 18 to 35-year-old Chinese users of social media, you'll see content that is encouraging them to pursue their careers, heavy emphasis on hard sciences. and engineering and things that would make a good commitment to the people's republic. Come on. That's what the kids in America are watching too, right? And science beings. They sort of have people in odd outfits doing inappropriate things,

sitting atop of their timeline, plus the communication functions of it sometimes also are promoting advertisements for illegal substances. But basically it's dumbing down and distracting the same demographic for. for our kids. Is TikTok allowed in China? I mean, I know what you're saying about the algorithm is different, but inside of China, can they access TikTok or do they have some other system? They have their version of this.

So ByteDance is a Chinese company. They do run social media inside China, but these things are siloed. And, you know, under a normal multinational model, you might have silo. implementations of different apps and services. But if you take another use case of this where I think that there's some evidence of an issue, after October 7th happened in Israel, instantaneously feeds were filled with radicalized messages that seemed to provoke, if not organized, demonstrations, flash mob almost, and in universities and capitals around the world, but hitting a lot of American audiences. And it's almost impossible to imagine that having been spontaneously the case.

And so if you look at whether it was the Summer of Love in 2020 or the pro-Palestinian pro-Humas protests that broke out in America after October 7th, there is some evidence out there that someone was turning the dial up on this. It was unlikely to be the U.S. U.S. government and it wouldn't be a real commercial interest. Yeah, I'm old enough to remember that the Summer of Love, I believe, was actually 1969. I don't know what that happened. 2020. I wouldn't call that the Summer of Love, but whatever.

Here's the thing about it is interesting because if you imagine, right, and this is not hard to imagine, that the Russian regime or Xi Jinping's regime in China, you know, Even the Iranians to some extent, although they don't necessarily have all the same resources, if their goal is to, in a low-cost way, to influence arts and minds in the West, right, let's just narrow it down to the U.S., then, you know, in the old days, you had to do all sorts of things. You had to pay journalists to, you know, put newspaper articles in. Maybe you got a radio ad at some point, whatever it was. It was low-tech, and it took a long time, and you had a network of huge.

humans that you had to go through. And now the ability to split and divide, the ability to have very nuanced messages, right? Not that the average American is out there is, you know, is, you know, overly nuanced in the way that they review social media. But it is a remarkably effective tool at a relatively low cost, whether it's the Russians, the Chinese or anyone else, with resource and motivation to start using our freedoms against us, right? And they're very smart. They look and they say, okay, well, look, racial divide, right? Divisiveness. That's a very effective tool. Let's focus on that. Right. So the next thing, you know, they're just, they're, they're blanketing social media with messages that then other people who are unwitting, they don't mean to,

but they're looking and then they're forwarding that on. It's an amazing world that we live in. And I think most people don't understand just how aggressive other nations not, you know, necessarily aligned with ours, how aggressively they use social media. No, I think that this is definitely one of those things where the elephant was sneaking in under the tent. But before we knew it, it was completely inside the tent. In a past life, you knew me involved in some silly business of politics. And in that time, we were learning how some of these technologies could be used to engage voters, move campaigns. And, of course, others were figuring out how to spread nasty things about me. And, you know, there's nothing really nasty about me to spread, but somehow they made this stuff up. And that was a microcosm.

But if you imagine an unlimited supply of population, an almost unlimited budget because of very friendly investment in trade policies of the United States. transferring wealth technology and opportunity to you, and now this tool that can micro-target and profound ways, you can do very sophisticated things with it. But even worse, though, if you just want it as a blunt object, you're not looking to persuade, but you're looking to distract and demoralize. If you're just hypnotizing and basically getting people to sit on the couch with their bag of Cheetos and do nothing, or worse, damage them psychologically. by just giving them odd programming, you've done damage to what should be the productive, employable demographic in America, the recruitable military graphic in America, the generation on which old guys like me, at least, need to retire on top of. and that hits at fundamental national health in a way that never could have been done before.

Yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, I want to pick up on this after the break, but I think that the most damning statement you can make about TikTok and why it's important that, you know, the structure of the ownership of it change is what you referenced earlier, which is the West version of TikTok is not allowed in China. And there's a reason for that. And I think that's all people really should have to hear to say, okay, yeah, maybe there is something here that we need to be focused on. But it's tough because then you turn to TikTok and you got another damn raccoon video.

So anyway, listen, Steve, you'll stay right where you are, man. Don't go anywhere. We've got to take a quick break. and then we'll be back with more from Steve Yates and the Situation Report. Stick around. Hey, Mike Baker here. Now, this podcast is brought to you in part by Stash. Imagine investing without ever picking a single stock. Well, with Stash, the experts handle the hard part for you. Stash isn't just another investing app. It's a registered investment advisor that combines automated investing with expert guidance. So you don't have to worry about figuring it out on your own. Choose from personalized investments.

or let Stash's award-winning smart portfolio do the work for you. With Stash, investing doesn't feel like gambling. It's simple, it's smart, stress-free, so your money can finally start working as hard as you do. Get access to world-class financial advice with personalized guidance, just $3 monthly subscriptions. That's right, I said a $3 monthly subscription. Stash has already helped millions of Americans reach their financial goals.

So don't let your money sit around. Put it to work with Stash. Go to get.stash.com slash PDB. That's get dot stash.com slash pd to see how you can receive $25 towards your first stock purchase and a few important disclosures. That's get dot stash.com slash PDB. Paid non-client endorsement, not representative of all clients and not a guarantee. Investment advisory services offered by Stash Investments LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. Investing involves risk, offer is subject to terms and conditions. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Looking to see what's happening around your home?

Rings battery doorbell helps you track packages and see who's at your door in real time. The outdoor cam plus protects your yard at night with a wide field of view and clearer retinal 2K video. Or upgrade to 4K cam. Cameras and doorbells with retinal vision for ultra-clear zoom in detail. Your door, your yard, your home. With Ring, it's protected. Shop cameras, doorbells, and more at ring.com now. Welcome back to the PDB Situation Report.

Joining me once again is Senior Research Fellow for China and National Security Policy at the Heritage Foundation. That, of course, would be Mr. Steve Yates. Steve, thanks very much for staying put. What do you hear about the... Next iteration of TikTok. Who's buying it? Oracle is at the core of this conglomerate via partnership with a few others that have been current investors in the enterprise so far.

But they have come up with technological way that the data, U.S. data stays in the U.S. that there's some ambiguity about what happens with the algorithm. Legally, it has to be out of the control of the parent company, By dance and the Chinese Communist Party, therefore. But there's questions of, is it going to be partially licensed and then kind of adapted to a new version? There's talk of it being relaunched as a new app in this new ecosystem. All of those pieces sound like it's moving in the right direction. And Ambassador Greer, U.S. Trade Representative said that if there's any question before this is finalized,

that there's any issue about these compliance issues that President Trump is prepared to just pull TikTok down and wait until they're ready to meet negotiations on the right terms. That's the right thing to say. So that's kind of where we are. Okay. But do you think that the president's serious about that? And the reason I ask, and this is sort of disconnected to what we're talking about, but I've been fascinated by the reluctance on the White House part to slap secondary tariffs on China for their purchase of Russian energy. You know, they did it with India. India's number two. So then you think, well, why wouldn't you do it with number one? But of course, they've got the trade negotiations. So I'm just wondering whether

you know, at the end of the day, is the White House inclined to really take any significant measures? I mean, I know obviously that the start of the tariff wars, there was, you know, okay, we're going to hit you with a 10,000 percent tariff or whatever it was. But at this stage, with TikTok, do you think that the White House means what they say, that they would pull it? Well, if you asked me a couple weeks ago, on TikTok specifically, I did not feel like it was moving in the right direction. And I wasn't sure where the off ramp was going to be. And, of course, I would readily admit I didn't have perfect visibility into what the president was thinking or what the game plan was for the team involved in negotiations. But there was no public acknowledgement that negotiations were even happening on that. There was just the successive 90-day delays for this deadline.

But once Ambassador Greer came out of this last round of talks and was speaking very specifically about, this. It gives the impression that there was a bit more seriousness about this from the Chinese side. Maybe they got the impression themselves that the president would in fact do that. And the negotiating team sounded authorized to make the threat. And of course, the worst thing you can do in going in to negotiate with an adversary generally, but especially with China, is to say that you're prepared to pull something and then you prove unwilling to do so. So I have to believe at this point, he was ready to let it go dark. I don't think he would have thought of that as a permanent outcome. He would try to think of that as something that would stun them back to the

negotiations. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is a fascinating look at sort of a president who's far more, when it's a word, transactional than any previous president, right? So, which is partly why I think people have such a hard time predicting, you know, from one day the next where the White House may be going with their negotiations. So let's imagine that Oracle leads this charge. You know, they can scrape up enough fat stacks to buy the business. In today's world, and there sits the CCP over bite dance. But in today's world, do you think it is possible to build a great big, beautiful wall between bite dance and the new version of,

TikTok. I assume it's logically possible and technologically possible, and I'd be the last person to go in and tell someone how to code this to make it real. It's also not the model I would have chosen. I mean, I'm really kind of bothered by the idea that we have some of the wealthiest, most advanced tech entrepreneurs in the entire planet in the United States of America with lots of other impressive software platforms. We have a wild tech genius entrepreneur and Elon Musk who can do things like make cars drive themselves and have rockets land themselves. How is it possible we weren't able to come up with some kind of a video sharing social media platform that could have competed with this? And if the likes of the president and big stars and sports figures would go on and mesmerize themselves with their own silly American algorithm, how could that not work? So I'm still a little lost how the various tech industry players in the U.S. weren't able to even do something along these lines.

What is this magical secret sauce? And if there is something truly magical about that, then it does raise the question you're rightly pointing to. If there's something unique about that algorithm that made it more powerful and compelling, then whoever bought it isn't going to want to lose that. And if they don't lose that, how is that not going to be a back door? Yeah, exactly. And that's, again, look, I'm with you, right? You and me are in sort of the non-technical boat, right, rowing around and hoping, you know, somebody in IT will tell us how to do things.

But I'm skeptical. I'm cynical from my perspective because I know how operationally aggressive the Chinese regime is. And so I agree with you. I would have thought that we were to say, hey, screw it, we're shutting it down, and here's a brand new app. And it's a shiny object. Now, I think they probably, in part, didn't do it because, well, in sort of that 45-year-old to 70-year-old mindset, it's like, well, but look, there's already all these hundreds of millions of users, and how will we ever get those people? But what we've already learned from young people is that they're very quick to migrate or to adopt, you know, new sites or apps.

and, you know, the old people find one and say, well, I'm going to get on Facebook and see what my kid's doing and the kid's already off of Facebook and they've gone to Myspace or Nets up. Heaven forbid, they can't go back to that. Whatever this was the space to be. Yeah, so it is fascinating to me that they've chosen this route. And again, I'm skeptical about their ability to separate this. And also, look, if there was some incredible, you know, space age algorithm that they didn't want to lose by shutting it down. The Chinese regime has spent decades, reverse engineering, all Western technology. So you would think that we would have the ability to do the same, say, okay, well, let's take a

look at that algorithm and figure it out and make it ourselves. You know, give them a taste of their own medicine? But you know what I'm going to do right now, Steve? I'm going to climb off of my soapbox and ask you another question. Let me ask you, this is a very, very open-ended go-with-it where you want to. But it kind of touches on TikTok. It touches on a variety of social media sites. Give me your impressions of social media in the aftermath of the Charlie Kirk assassination.

Well, there's a lot of elements that really, I think, are quite concerning. And I think that probably a lot of the public is getting exposed to what they might have thought was dark web chat areas where there's conversations that are too wild to even go on what are, I think, adequately outrageous social media platforms already. And so the shooter in the Kirk assassination was in active conversations, the discord and some other areas. And there's this question of, are people getting radicalized by way of these apps? Is there something about the community guidelines in these apps that needs to be looked at about what actually incites violence or enables violence versus the boundary of free speech and association? and I think that there's just a lot of concern also take that awful video. I happen to be live on air on television when the shooting occurred and then they just showed the video. Frankly, I was shocked.

They actually showed him being shot on air. I mean, it was a recording that they were playing back. I'm just amazed. If it was live, you'd expect it to go by. I was kind of amazed that they showed that and then was reacting to it. But that was a microcosm in television. It was, then there's choices for social media platforms for what do you show? What kind of commentary around that do you show?

What's the next video after that that you put into someone's feed? and then do you use that to make them more radicalized one way or the other? There is deep, deep science that all of the social media platforms are informed by that they put in to try to make you angry because if you are angry, you will remain. And if you remain, you're open to more engagement, more advertising. they can monetize your addiction. And so you see this, then it has that effect. And then you take it back to where we're talking about Tech Top before.

This isn't just domestic actors that could be at play. What if foreign actors want to inflame this? What could they do to raise questions? We already see the discussion, sadly, before his funeral, God bless his family and everyone else, a terribly destructive line of debate about the role of Israel and anti-Semitism in social media and politics. And was that a part of this? Well, that is 100% tied into our algorithms pushing those conversations to what demographics

and dialing them up or down. So I think there's a lot of troubling things, but all the more reason why we, if we can't settle what's constitutionally protected clearly among our citizenry, we should at least be very, very clear beyond our sovereign shores we want to have safeguards. And that's not easy, but that I think has to be where a lot of the focus is. Yeah, I've been a little bit surprised at some of the conversations about, well, you know, was he radicalized online? Well, one thing we learned from the global war on terror, you know, or GWAT because, you know, I love a good acronym, is that, yeah, look, that was a prime location

for radicalization of, you know, impressionable young people in particular. Yeah. And so we know that. And it's really no different. You're playing off the same, you know, leverage points. You're pushing the same buttons in a sense. You're just your objective may be slightly different or the cause may be slightly different, but you're still looking to break someone down and then build them up in your own likeness and then get them to go out and do something that you want them to do. So I've got, you know, again, I'm not a Luddite, but I have a lot of concerns. And I think we won't know how much damage social media has done for quite some time yet. But I think down the road we're going to be shocked at a certain point when we find out

or when we realize with enough data points just how damaging it can be. I'm not suggesting we get rid of social media, God forbid, unless we just keep the raccoon videos. I love having you on the show, Steve. It's always a delight. I don't use that word loosely. But it's always great to have you on with your insight, your experience, and I hope you'll come back, man. Thanks very much, Mike. It's a pleasure.

Excellent. Thank you, Steve. Steve Yates, senior research fellow for China and National Security Policy at the Heritage Foundation. Excellent. Hey, Mike Baker here. Now, you've probably heard me talk about the great company Jacked Up Fitness and their amazing all-in-one home gym. Look, for home fitness, that thing's a game changer. Well, now I got something else to tell you. It's coming from Don and the terrific team over at Jacked Up Fitness. And they know that many people are short on time and also short on money, but still want to get fit. So here's the thing. You can now start your fitness journey for under $60 and in just six minutes each day. And for those of you of a certain age, here comes a blast from the past. Introducing the all-new shake weight by jacked-up fitness.

Uh-huh, that's right. Fifteen years ago, the original shake weight shook the world. And now the fitness legend returns, bigger, better, and built to perform. And why now? Well, I'm glad you asked, because science has finally caught up with the importance of explosive power and fast-twitch muscle training, something that the shake weight delivers in a compact, a powerful weight for beginners, for heavy lifters and serious athletes alike. The spring-loaded weights on each end send shock waves of energy throughout your whole upper body,

forcing your muscles to contract up to 240 times per minute. Beginners can tone and tighten their arms, shoulders and chest. Lifters can prime their upper bodies in between sets and get that final burn, while athletes can sharpen reaction times and build explosive power for that competitive edge. The shakeweight is no joke. Seriously. It's serious training made simple. If you're looking for a fun way to jumpstart or supercharge your fitness routine, get the all-new shakeweight by Jacked Up Fitness. Just go to jacked-up shakeweight.com. Again, that's jacked-up shakeweight.com.

Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's Superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th. The powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th. And the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamavatheater.com. Only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win? Must be 21 to enter. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right. So I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice.

Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Kayak, got that right. All right, well, that's all the time that we have for this week's PDB situation report. Look, if you have any questions or comments, or if you got a humorous anecdote or maybe a limerick, I don't think people do limericks anymore. Just reach out to me at PDB at thefirstTV.com. As you know, every every month or so, we take that big bag of mail and we sort through it. We take the best comments and questions and we stuff them into one episode that we call Ask Me Anything. And so we got another one getting ready to hit the launch pad.

So keep your large cards and letters coming. All right. Finally, to listen to the podcast of this show ad free, you can do it. You can do it very simply. Just become a premium member of the President's Daily Brief. visiting bdb premium.com. I'm Mike Baker, and until next time, stay informed. Stay safe. Stay cool.

Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill? Yeah, we've been hearing that a lot. Good news. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile Bill to Verizon and we'll give you a better deal. So get away from that unfortunate phone bill and get to Verizon. Run, ride, canoe. Whatever it takes, we'll be here. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal on the best network. A better deal. prizes. That's Verizon. Best network based on route metrics, best overall mobile network performance

US second half 2025. All rights reserved. It must provide a recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person who gave me the deal. Additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply.