The Ramsey Show - App - 21 Years Old and $350K in Debt! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

This is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. Excited to have you aboard. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me today.

And we are here for you. So George is our resident money expert. I'll chime in with an opinion or two, if he allows. I will allow. Will you? All right. And I'm the work expert. So think income. All right? I'm the guy to help you? All right. And I'm the work expert. So think income.

All right? I'm the guy to help you make more income, and George is the guy to help you spend it and budget it properly. Oh, I like that. That's a good combo. You see that? So you're feeling stuck. You feel like you need the promotion.

You can't get the promotion. Anything related to that. And a lot of people are like, should I move for this job? Should I take the pay cut? Should I take the raise? Is it worth it? Those are all conundrums that you can help with. That's right. So happy to take any of those calls. Let's get to it. Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City, George, is what it's famously known for. Makes

sense. I'll explain that to you on the commercial break. But Colin is up. Colin, how can we help? Hey, man. So in a bit of a situation, I'm 21 21 years old, three kids, five, two and 34 days. Started young, right? I own a rental property, a duplex here in town and own the home that I'm living in. So two different mortgages, two different car payments. Trying to figure out what best suits me. Should I, I'm finding myself payment poor, which is probably 90% of the phone calls you guys receive. And I'm trying to see if it's smart for me to keep saving for one thing, but falling behind on the other.

What are you saving for? Or should I, well, I'm just, like I said, I just went through a career switch. So I've, I was in the car business for the past four years, making 130 grand a year. Um, now I am a nurse making about 80 grand a year. And I, um, you know, it's what I went to school for. It's more consistent money, but definitely less now. There will be more in the future, but less now. And for these next couple of years, it's going to be the income that can't afford what I have. So I'm trying to figure out, does it make sense for me to give, you know,

does it make sense for me to take a minor hit on my credit and give car payments back to receive more money in my pocket so I can keep the lifestyle for me and my wife? Or does it make sense for me to sell everything so I can get more ahead of the game? Okay, I'll tell you what, Colin, George is going to tell you what to do, but can I guide you so we can get to it faster? Yeah. All right, let's go through your debts. All right. So we've got two homes, right? And so give us the, not the primary home, not the mortgage, but just give us the rental property. What do you owe on that? About 96.8. All right. 96.8. And then now list the rest of your debts out for us. You said besides the home that I live in that's right you said you had two car loans

okay what are those so two car loans that's about 45 and 48 okay and what are those cars worth are you upside down on those or you got some equity upside down on them hard upside down on them hard how much on the 48 give me that one first. Eight grand. Okay. So you have 90,000 plus worth of car loans and you make 80,000. Correct. How? Because when I accumulated those car loans, I was making 130.

That's right. Not that that's an income. That still hurts my brain. Correct. It hurts my brain. How much are you upside down? I'm young and dumb. That's okay. How much are you upside down on the $45,000 car?

Probably closer to $12,000. So it's only worth like $33,000? Correct. Give him a $48,000 one. He's $8,000 upside down. That one's worth about $40,000? Yeah. Okay.

Give George the rest of your debts we got to see your whole picture here then he'll tell you what to do yeah for sure so i know you guys said besides the mortgage i live in but that mortgage is about uh 250 what's it worth um it's a manufactured home so probably less than that Way less than that. Okay, what else? Let's keep moving. Let's keep moving on the other debts. What's the rental worth, by the way? Say that again? What's the rental worth? The rental is worth

about $130,000. Okay. We're definitely going to sell that one, aren't we, George? Yeah, you'd clear $30,000 worth of debt just by selling that. It is not a blessing in your life. Correct. I'm in the process of selling it now. Okay. or at least talking to investment plan or, you know, property owners. Other debt is about eight grand in student loans. Okay. Is that it? And about 18 grand in credit card debt. Okay. Here's the deal. I would sell this rental. You'll clear hopefully

about 30K? Yep. That's the 20K you're upside down in on the cars plus another 10 to get you a different vehicle. Right. So that's going to clear the car debt. What are your total car payments? Probably about $2,800 a month. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's going to free up $2,800 that you can now use to tackle the other debts. So you'll tackle the smallest debt first. So if you have a bunch of credit cards, I'm guessing those are split amongst a few. Yep. Yep. Okay. So whatever the smallest balance is, you're going to free up the $2,800, all the margin you can muster up from your normal income. Is your wife working outside the home? No.

Okay. I imagine she's got her hands full with a one-month-old, a two- and a five-year-old. Correct. When you go home, can she do something part-time and you take over? No. I work nights. Or i work afternoon so three to eleven so when i'm home it's uh i mean i guess she could but my problem is this is another kind of room i found myself in i mean you know because my income is reported for the past two years in

the sense of what you know daycares and all that stuff take because I made so much then but make so little now or less now. I still don't qualify for any help. Can you pick up more hours doing nursing? Yeah, I'm mandated three nights a week already. Okay. If you can do even more of that, we've got to get this income up. But if you at least do what we say, sell the rental,

you'll clear the amount you're upside down on the cars. That will allow you to sell them. Then you're going to take the $10K and get you a beater car to get around in for now. Now, with that freed up $2,800, you attack the rest of your $26,000 in debt, student loans and credit cards. And at that amount, what are we talking about, George? How many months are we looking at there? Let's get $26,000.

We'll make an $80,000 and freeing up 2,800. That should help you get out of debt in a year. That's right. Do you see that path? Yeah, in one year. If you take the money that you just freed up in those car payments, you can get out of this in a year. Okay.

Do you have any savings? Yeah, but it's very little, probably about $4,800. That's something. So if you're following the baby steps, which we're going to send you to Financial Peace University to walk you through this, baby step one is $1,000. Anything beyond that needs to go toward your consumer debt.

So that's $3,800. You would attack. You would knock out a few credit cards just like that, which frees up a payment. Do you see how the snowball starts rolling? I put him on hold because we're running into a break. Yeah. We did what we could. So that's the plan.

Hang on the line. We'll send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It'll walk you through this. It'll make you never want to touch debt again. At Financial Peace University, that's going to give you the proven plan to get out of debt, to build wealth. Man, you got three babies. You got a wife. You got to start taking life seriously. And that means getting out of debt as fast as possible. Colin, I mean, George laid it out as plain as it could be. There is no margin for you to come up with your own version of that plan. That's the plan that will get you out of debt in a year and allow you to start to begin to build wealth,

take care of all those kiddos. Try to find some sleep somewhere in there. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie.

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And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash ramsayradio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me this hour, 888-825-5225 is the phone number. We'll get back to the phone shortly. But first, George, I'd like to, you and I were talking on Friday, we were on the show. And during the breaks, we were talking about how we just peruse the old real estate listings just for fun. It's one of my only hobbies.

Yeah. By the way, this is not an endorsement. It's just, I like the usability of it. I use realtor.com. I'm a fan as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's a nice interface. And again, this is no endorsement. Sure. But it is listings by realtors. And so I find it to be fun. But. Yeah, it's a nice interface. And again, this is no endorsement. Sure. But it is listings by realtors. And so I find it to be fun. But the app, it's kind of fun to see what's going on. And I'll be honest with you, I'm always kind of looking at my neighbor to go, okay. What's going on in the hood?

I want to know what's happening. A lot of people do that, by the way. It's their hobby as well. Well, sure. You want to see where you stand. How's the old equity situation? Some of it's doom scrolling. How's the market?

Going, what if? A little bit of dreaming. And some people are going, should I sell my house? All right, Mr. Money Guy, what's your take on the current real estate market? I think it's not going to change drastically anytime soon. So what does that mean? I think rates will slowly come down. But as they come down, home values will pipe up. So you're telling me people ought to be on, no, excuse me, they should be in the game,

not on the sideline. Is that what you're telling me? If you're financially ready to buy, do it. Don't worry about the rates. And if you're thinking about selling, it's not going to be like, well, if I wait six months, what? Just go ahead and sell if you're ready to sell. All right, there you go.

From the expert himself, from the old horse's mouth right there, folks. And so we've got a great program for you. Our Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent that you can actually trust, keep you on track with your goals. They understand the way we teach buying and selling real estate. And so we want to make sure that you know that there are top agents in your area that we trust. And you can find these Ramsey Trusted Agents with years of experience by going to ramseysolutions.com slash agent. That's ramseysolutions.com slash agent. That's

ramseysolutions.com slash agent. All right, to Atlanta, Georgia, we go next. And C is on the line. C, how can we help? Hi, Ken and George. How are y'all? We're having a blast. What's going on? All right. I am in baby step number two, and in an effort to increase my income and just do something that I see myself doing long-term, I'm thinking about going to get a master's degree, but I don't know if I should do it now or later after I pay off all my debt. Okay. Give me a quick snapshot of your debt. I have $22,000 in student loans. That's it?

Yes. Okay. What did you get your undergrad in? Sociology. Okay. And what are you, what masters are you looking at pursuing? It's something different, so it wouldn't take the standard two years. It would be three years. It's speech-language pathology. So three-year program to have a master's in speech pathology? Yes. Okay that kind of at the top range

yes this is uh less than a year of experiment okay experience and that's like the 25 percent and what's that look like as it goes up What do you think the ceiling is on that income? I did not research that, but that's like the low end, and that's like very beginner. Okay, good. All right. And do you see yourself potentially owning your own firm? I'm not sure what you'd call it, or agency? Practice?

Thank you. That's the word. Maybe, but I haven't thought that far yet. All right, good. Well, I guess that's why you called me. I'm going to walk you through all these things. Okay, so how much is the master's program going to cost? Hello, C. We stumped C on that question. Did we lose her? All right, we'll see. Hello, C. We stumped C on that question. Did we lose her? All right, we'll see. Hello, C. Can you hear me? Now we can.

You just disappeared for a moment. We're glad to get you back. All right, how much is the three-year program that you're looking into, or have you looked into multiple, and what is the range of cost? Well, it'll be about $25,000 at the school that i've looked at 25 000 total yes okay well not including books and things like that just tuition okay and and do you have that set aside in cash i don't have that in cash right now that's right because you're trying to pay off the 22 000 how much do you have in savings right now?

Just my $1,000 for Baby Step 1. She's working the Baby Steps, Jordan. Okay, good. All right. So are you single income, double income? Is it just you? And what are you making right now? Yes, I'm single, no children. I'm making $31,000 as a teacher.

Okay. All right, so this is here's the- And I'm working part-time. So here's where we are. So you're part-time, only making $31,000 as a teacher. Okay. All right, so this is here's... And I'm working part-time. So here's where we are. So you're part-time, only making $31,000. So regardless of my answer on the master's degree, can we agree that you need to be full-time doing something, making more than $31,000? I said that I'm working full-time and part-time making $31,000.

Oh, I misunderstood. Oh, my gosh. So you're making as a teacher. They're only paying like 20 grand? No, I guess. Are you a full-time sociologist? No, I'm a teacher. So I work at a small Christian school. So yeah, my income is not like the average. Can you go work at a different school and make, you know, $35,000, $40,000, $45,000? Well, I did get a raise this upcoming year. This is just, I just gave you my numbers for what I'm making right now. Well, but this is

all informing my decision. Here's the challenge, see. There are times where I give people the advice of cash flowing a master's degree, okay, while they're doing the baby steps. And in your situation, you've only got the student loans, $22,000, but you've got to get your income up before I would ever say to try to do both, okay? The challenge is you've got a three-year program, okay? And that's a good chunk of time, and you're going to have to be working, I'm guessing, full time during that process, correct? Right. were making more money. If you're working two jobs, I'd like to see that number be around 60, 65, not two jobs at 31. And I understand you were giving us your current numbers, but going forward, you're going to have to play this out. And George, I'm going to throw it to you because

this is a budgeting issue. If the income gets up higher to the tune of, see, listen to me, my qualifications on me saying, yes, you should go get this graduate degree. I like that it's a path to a lot more money. And in this case, I want to be clear with the audience and see, I'll let you answer the question. A master's degree is the only way to be a speech pathologist, true or false? True. Okay. So I want the audience to know that I've got a two-part framework that I always run by people, and then they ask about a furthering education degree. Is it the only way, or is it the best way? And if the answer is yes, then I say pursue it, but we still got to be smart with our money. In this case, I'm bringing you in here, George, C needs to have this. So there's no question that the master's degree is eventually required.

I would be more comfortable if she doubled her salary, but I'm going to leave an asterisk there. If she could double her salary and get more, let's say she gets in the 60-65 range. From a budget standpoint, I want you to walk her through what she'd have to be able to figure out to pull the trigger on this. Yeah. Well, when you think about even paying off your 22 grand in student loans, let's say you could do a thousand bucks a month toward your loans, right? That's 22 months. That's almost two years. 32? Yes, I'm sorry. Okay. So at a grand a month, if you were able to throw that, it would take you almost three years to pay off the debt. Then you still need to get your emergency fund, save up and cash flow to college, then do three

years. So you're talking about like a seven-year plan. Do you agree that kind of sucks? Don't you want to get there faster? I do. So now the question is, what if we could do two grand a month? Well, that changes the equation. 2,500 a month. When you create that kind of margin, it's going to get you out of debt faster, allow you to cash flow this faster and get you through school. So that's the goal you need to be thinking through is how can I create more margin? The only way to do that is by spending less and making more. And right now I'm going to heavily index it toward the making more side. So see, based on how George walked you through those numbers, I want you to press pause on the master's degree. Let's get the income up, get some more headway on

that debt and get to a point where you know you can budget and you can live and you can cash flow your way through while continuing to pay off baby step two. Other than that, but I'd say you're going to have to press pause and get out of debt first before we even think about the master's degree. This is the Ramsey Show. If you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981.

And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me, and we are here for you this hour taking your money questions, your professional and work questions

related to your income. How do you make more income? Is it a side hustle? Is it a pivot? Why are you not getting promoted? I'll take any of those questions. We want to help you get some more money in. By the way, that helps us get through the baby steps faster.

George here to be the primary here on your money questions. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Tallahassee, Florida is where we go next. And Ryan is joining us there. Ryan, how can we help? Yes, sir. Ken, George, great to hear from you. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's happening today? Yes, sir. So my wife and I, we're in a baby step two. Uh, we've been going at it because that one tense, like you guys say, for the, about the last year and a half. Um,

and we're doing really good with it. Uh, my big question and my main question is how do you keep the intensity on your debt payoff? Like as far as making sure that you're just, you keep going at it and you don't lose any steam on it and you don't get disgruntled. Cause we have like our two loans that we have left, the big ones, and that's all we have left. We've paid off all the small fiddly doing stuff like credit cards and a firm and stuff like that. So how much debt do you have total left? Left over, I have about $40,000. And we started with about, I want to say it was $89,000. My wife, before we started, we had bought her a brand new

Honda Accord. And then I found you guys on YouTube and I was like, we got to get rid of the car. So, Ryan, here's my question. You called us, and I love this question. How do we keep the intensity up, or how do we stay the course? I'm just curious, where are the temptations or where are the frustrations? Give us what you guys are actually dealing with in this journey right now. So, we're just, you know, we're working so much. I work, I'm a commercial truck driver locally. I work anywhere between 65 to 75

hours a week. And my wife works about probably 55 to 60 hours a week. And that's just on our regular jobs. And then I'll do like Uber Eats and stuff on the side. So you're exhausted. You're just exhausted. Yeah. Okay. So, George, this is an interesting question. This is kind of fun to tackle.

I may have a different position than George, but I think that this is a marathon, not a sprint. Would you agree with that, Ryan? Totally agree. And like I said, that's why I was asking, how do you just make sure that you keep that intensity and the fire does not die out in your – Well, I'm going to tell you.

What you're doing. I'm going to tell you. Because I think there's a difference between when Dave for decades has said be gazelle intense. There's a difference between that, I think. I could be wrong. I don't mind if george disagrees with me here and maybe some of our audience i think there's a difference between that and and literally the

physical sprint the entire time and i think there might be times and i i ran a half marathon i only did it once i'll never do it again by the way i was one and done george you know this famous first and last half but here's one thing I learned and I took away from my half marathon. You have to pace yourself. And that means you can't always keep the same pace. As I mapped out the course with a good friend of mine, you share the friend, he's intense. And we mapped out, all right, so this part of the course is a little bit more hilly. So you're not going to be able to naturally keep your pace up there. It's just physically harder, so let's drop our pace back here. But then we pick up our pace coming down the hill.

And so I think the journey at this moment is similar to that, George. And I don't mind if you disagree with me, but I'm going to lead off. This may be controversial, but I think I would back off. If you're working, did you say you were working about 75 hours a week right now roughly or is it 80 uh no like well on my full-time job no i mean everything i took into account everything you're doing yeah okay yeah everything's probably about 80 to 85 hours a week yeah i i i you've you've paid off so much money uh you're on the downhill of this deal you've paid off 80 uh you got less than on the downhill of this deal. You've paid off $80.

I have less than half to go. I would pull back, and I'm just making this up, but I would pull back to maybe 60 hours, see what 50 looks like for two weeks. That's obviously commensurate to you're not bringing in as much money, but again, you guys have learned how to budget. I'd like to see some gazelle intensity on keeping rice and beans and all that kind of stuff. But maybe give yourself a little bit of a physical break.

Maybe budget in a steak dinner instead of rice and beans every night. I think you've got to pace yourself. George, do you disagree with that advice? Not necessarily. I think the way I would pace it is just breaking it down into smaller goals. It's not necessarily we want to have less income, but I think there's ways to not make it a giant slog, which right now you've got the big dogs. So you've got the mountain staring you. You've knocked out the little ones.

You've got those wins, and now you're like, oh, crap. You can't keep doing 80 hours a week. It's going to take forever. Now, 80 hours, that's a lot. Like with the Uber Eats, are you guys just not making enough with your full-time jobs? What's the current household income with the side jobs? Current household income with the side jobs, the net is like just shy of $11,000 a month. Amazing. And how much of that are you able to throw at the debt?

We throw about $2,757 at the debt every month, and that's according to the budget. So it's going hard in the main. My question is, why do you guys have $8,000 in expenses? Well, I have my truck loan, which is one of the, that's the biggest one we have left. I owe $26,000 on that. Okay. that's the biggest one we have left. I owe $26,000 on that. And then we have a $13,800 personal loan that we had took out after we sold the car to buy my wife her little hooptie truck that she has now. Okay. It still seems like you have a lot of expenses. So if we can figure

out a way to spend less, because what we're talking about is making more, the other option to get margin is to spend less. So I'm wondering if there's lifestyle choices we can figure out a way to spend less, because what we're talking about is making more, the other option to get margin is to spend less. So I'm wondering if there's lifestyle choices we can make. We're shopping at a different grocery store, less stops at the, no pun intended, at the gas station. Are there other things we can do on that arena to bring our expenses down to $6,000 so you're not having to work as much, but you also don't lose progress? That's where I'm trying to get to. Okay. I know my big thing is we own a home and our mortgage is $3,564 a month. Goodness gracious. That's a lot of

mortgage. Yes, sir. That explains why things are so tight. What was that, Ken? How big is the house? How many square feet are you got on that? Just shy of 2,300 square feet. Man. And it's a four-bedroom, three-bath. Okay. Well, I think this mortgage is a...

That's another thing to look at down the road, because that may not be a sustainable mortgage for you guys. That's a big mortgage on a house that small. Because once you go back to your normal full-time jobs, what's going to be your take-home pay? It would be like $9,400 a month. Okay. So this mortgage is taking up a big old chunk of that.

We're talking upwards of 40% of your take-home pay going toward the mortgage. Yeah, you guys on the water? No, we're not. We're just, I live in Florida. Yeah. And when we had originally bought the house, right before, ironically, we bought the house right before we discovered you guys.

And I told my wife, I was like, if we had only found the Ramsey show maybe like a couple of months before. Well, usually you make a bad decision, then you find the show. So you guys did it in the right order. How much is the house worth? The house is worth $400,000.

What did you pay for it? $400,000. With very little down, I imagine? Yeah, we actually had the down payment assistance plan when we bought the home. So they put in like a... It's all included in the mortgage, I guess, but it's. What's the truck worth? My truck is worth $18,000. Okay.

I'm just wondering if push came to shove and you were just done going this hard, you could sell the truck. You need to cover the amount you're underwater on, plus enough to get you something different. But that's his main income, the truck. Well, the truck is not the one you're driving for work, right? That's your personal vehicle? It is. Oh. Yeah, yeah.

I'd sell the house. I really would. I think it's time for them to get out of this deal and rent, George. That's a lot of house. I would consider that. You probably can get out of debt first. It's going to take you another year. I'd keep up the intensity and look at your lifestyle choices.

But if you can't sustain it, you've got to slow down a little bit. Don't burn out. If you can't keep up those hours, at least take a week off and then get back at it. But my goodness. I think those are other fixes. I think I'd try to get out of that house. I wouldn't normally say that, George, but I think that would be a big, big fix. That's a lot of

house. You've got to go from disgruntled to gruntled. That's what I've learned in life, Ken. Ooh, I like that. I'm going to quote that. George Campbell, folks. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.

George Campbell joins me this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. You've got a question about your money? Come on. You got a question about not making enough money? You want to make more? I'm here to help on that. George is going to coach you up on your budget, how to keep it.

So let's get to it. Is it Joan? I think we're going to go with Joan or Joanne. What do you think? I'm going to go Joanne. You're going to go Joanne? I'll go with Joanne. Let's see.

Toronto, Ontario. Is it Joan or Joanne? It's Joanne. Joanne! All right. Way to go, George. Way to help me out. I won a prize. Thank you. How can we help? Okay. So we have a 15-year-old son who

we have been Dave Ramsey followers for years. So he has done the 60-30-10 principle. Now he is working 50-60 hours a week. And we are starting to see an unhealthy money habit where everything is about money and savings. Be more specific.

What's showing up in his actions and his comments that's got you concerned about a 15-year-old working 50 to 60 hours a week? I'm having a hard time being concerned yet, but I want to hear more. Okay. Well, and maybe this is where we don't need to be concerned. But he is an avid soccer fan, and he would rather work than go to his soccer games. You mean playing in his... Correct. Okay.

Correct. And what's his job? What kind of work is he doing? He's now into landscaping. And what's he making per hour? $19 an hour. And what kind of goals does this kid have with this money? Have you heard him talk about some of his goals? Oh, yes. What's he got? He wants to buy a house. And why does he want to buy a house? He wants to buy a house when he's 20. And yes, in Canada, in our area, you don't get much of a house for 400 000 right and what is he what is he saying about his future besides buying a house is he saying

anything about a professional future things that he may want to do one day um he got like he's leaning towards running his own landscaping company. Okay, there's your answer. But when it comes to college, it is off the table. He doesn't even want to think about it because he can make money instead. Fantastic. Well, he's making $4,500 a month at 15 years old. What does he need college for? I couldn't be happier, Joanne. You have nothing to be concerned about at all.

You have a 15-year-old who has discovered the value of working his butt off and stacking cash, and he's thinking five years ahead on a house. He's thinking probably seven to ten years ahead on owning his own landscaping company, and he's going, I'm never going to play in the MLS, and I'm probably not going to make the Canadian World Cup team. So maybe I'll just skip my soccer game and take care of my future. I wouldn't be concerned if I were you, Joanne. I'd be throwing a party.

Okay. That's good. George, am I wrong? Here's my take. Now, the only concern is that he has skipped childhood and went straight into adulthood. We want him to grow into an adult who is excited about work. I like that.

He hasn't skipped childhood. That's a dramatic. Well, I just don't want him to look back one day and go, what did I do this for? I just worked my whole life. My concern, Ken, and here's where I've seen this play out, there's not a why behind it. He's got a why.

Well, he wants a house. No. He wants to run his own landscaping company one day. Yes. He likes landscaping work. The Wyatt House at 20. Who cares about that? That's just a 15-year-old.

That'll work itself out. She's wondering, is he working too much? Is he too concerned about money? And I don't think he is. Does he have to be in school? We homeschool. Okay. And he's doing his high schooling instead of four years.

He's doing it in three. And he's getting it all done he's doing his work, he's studying Oh absolutely. Okay great. He can work and make money He hates the homeschooling but he's so bound and bent he can make money But he's very disciplined. Instead of sitting behind a desk

Yes but that's what schooling does to a lot of entrepreneurs in fact I could tell this story over and over and over and over and over against all about all the great entrepreneurs. They hate being on a behind a desk. They hate the process. They're about doing. And my guess is he really enjoys the outdoors. Is this something he's always been a bit of an outdoorsy handy kind of guy? Oh, absolutely. A hundred percent. Again, this is this is he's listen i wrote a book called find the work you're wired to do george this kid is why you figured it out very early yes i'm telling you i'm so excited i can barely stand it this is by the way this is rare very but but to say this

kid's not had any fun he's's had a fun childhood, yes? Yeah, well, and trauma, lots of trauma. Okay, tell us about that, whatever you're comfortable with. We don't need to know the details, but what kind of trauma? He lost his brother when he was seven, so that's really tough on him. Well, that'll make you grow up quick. That's exactly what I was so sorry. Yeah. Yeah, and a year later, his dad and me split.

Okay. So would you say it's possible that this is a big distraction for him and it also is a potential win for him? He sees a big life win. He sees something that he can control. He couldn't control losing his brother. He couldn't control you all divorcing, but he can control how much money he makes.

I think so, and potentially it makes him focused on something other than his pain. That's exactly what I'm getting at. That's why I said it's a distraction and something that he can control. It can be both. Listen, I think getting him therapy on a consistent basis and encouraging him to do that is okay. I understand your concern.

I was having some fun. I am in no way minimizing the trauma that he's had. But this is actually, he's not some weird situation. He's rare, but he's not weird. Okay. George, I keep thinking about my friend Graham Stephan, who's a big financial YouTuber. He had a very similar experience to your son, Joanne,

where he was in school going, wait, I can go make money doing this aquarium photography stuff why am i sitting here in school making zero dollars so there's a bent to him that he's going to be very wealth-minded and that's okay i'm just in the boat of i think a little bit of balance is good as long as he has some hobbies i just i don't know that i i don't want to be working 60 hours a week let alone a 15 year old so that was my only thing was I love where he's headed. His mindset's right. His discipline is there.

I just want him doing it for the right reasons and have some real depth to it instead of just going, I got to build wealth. I got to have a million by 21 or else, or else, or else. And as I dig into it, people, there's no why behind it. I just want him to have that deeper why. And I appreciate that. But, Joanne, I would just be aware. I think George makes a very good point there i just keep your eye on it but but really encourage him and really just speak positive life over him that he's working so hard he's put money away and just remind him hey

have a little bit of fun with some of that money you know and force him to give some too yeah you said you're in the 60 30 10 i assume that's? Yeah, but he, as long as we've done that, which is all he ever actually remembers, he's never spent 30%. I think we get him to enjoy some of it more, because the only concern is that he has a flat tire, where he goes, I'm great at saving and investing, I have a harder time giving and having that open hand. I have a harder time enjoying the fruits of my labor. So I think we can work on those things with him, but I don't think this is a crisis. No, not at all. Just make sure he doesn't get too unhealthy. And that's the only issue. And the unhealthy would be that he's just working, working, working, not enjoying,

not giving. So be that positive focus. Hey, I think you should go do this, or I think you should have some friends over and do that. Community, I think, is huge at 15. Here's the interesting thing. It may be very hard to find other 15-year-olds who get him. He'll be hiring his buddies to work for his business at this point. Right. So they come over to play poker or something. He goes, hey, let's get outside and knock some boxwoods out here. Let's plant these suckers. But I think you've got a great young man who's been through a lot

and I think he's been forced to probably mature a little bit too early on certain things. So lean in, mom, and love him. Don't be concerned because he'll pick up on that. And I just don't think you need to be concerned right now.

On the spectrum of 60 hours a week doing video games or working, I'd rather him be toward the work side. That's better. I love that. Good stuff. All right, good hour, George Camel. Good stuff. Praying for your voice will get you medicated.

More honey during the break. Thanks to Kelly Daniel keeping us on the air and the fearless crew. This is The Ramsey Show. you