The Ramsey Show - App - 4 Ways Money Can Make You Happier

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour With my good friend and best-selling author Dr. John Deloney And we'll be answering your calls And it's a free call anywhere in the country At 888-825-5225 So give us a call

We'll be talking about your life, your money, your relationships Your career, anything and everything So up first in Dallas, Texas We have Beth and Margie on the line. Hey, ladies, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having us on. We're really excited to talk to you. For sure. Is this Beth that I'm

speaking to? Yes, this is Beth. Perfect. Hold on, before we get to it, I like how you did that, Rachel. There's a comedian who says, you can just add the word ladies on the end of any sentence to make it weird. You can just be like... I always say, it's the ladies. You can just say the word ladies on the end of any sentence to make it weird you can just be like i always say it's the ladies i know you can just say like hey uh can i can you can i run to the to the store real quick ladies so rachel's like all right let's go out to the to the ladies well i saw two of we never get two callers i know oh my god all right so what's up

beth yeah so i'm calling cause I'm the avid listener. Um, and I instantly, as soon as my sister told me about her situation, I was like, well, what would Dave do? So, um, my, my sister Margie is getting married in October and, um, she's paying for it herself. And so she's been planning a lot of it by herself. And, um, she eventually hired a wedding planner, but, um, she first off of like secured the venue and the room block on her own in the spring before the wedding planner came into the picture. And, um, Margie's never gotten married before. So she kind of doesn't

really know how room blocks work. And so, um, she requested, um, to put 30 rooms for five nights into the room block. And when she talked to the catering manager, the catering manager told her, oh, you can just release the rooms at a certain date. You don't have to worry. And so she was not worried. And so the sales manager, a different person, sent her a contract. And it said that they were guaranteed rooms and she signed it. And so now they're saying that she's responsible for like thirty five thousand dollars because there was an attrition fee clause in it. So only like a small percentage of the guests booked that potential 150 rooms. And so she's

getting stuck with the bill. And like the wedding's already pretty tight for her. She really just can't even afford that. So I'm just wondering, what would y'all do if you were in her shoes? Has she called the hotel and asked to void the contract completely? Margie, do you want to answer? Yeah. So I basically spoke with my wedding planner. Not the wedding planner. No. Have you contacted the hotel? Because you were the one that signed the contract. Right. I did immediately send the catering manager of sales an email saying that, you know, this was way above my means. And I was told that I was going to essentially be able to let the rooms go as the date got closer. And they said that they would they've kind of just been giving me the runaround.

So they've said that they'll speak with their supervisor, but at this time, they're not allowed to, you know, make any decisions. So what I did get them to do was, you know, I was saying, you know, if I'm going to be tied to these rooms, then why wouldn't I be allowed to have this room block until the day of the wedding if I'm going to be responsible for it anyway? So I did get them to extend to September 27th um so I got like a whole another month to be able to book but that's pretty much all that they're doing at this point are you are are you in the local area here in Dallas you mean yeah do you live around the hotel no it's a destination wedding okay yeah um since you're on the hook contractually for 35 000 just my experience has been um there's so many like i stayed in this beautiful teeny tiny boutique hotel um this past like two days ago

two nights ago in a tiny little town in Pennsylvania. And as I walked in, there was a plaque outside and it said by Hilton. So what I've come to find is all these hotels are owned by bigger chains that are owned by bigger chains and some of these are publicly traded. All I have to say is nobody cares. And

if I was on the hook contractually for $35,000, I would get on a Southwest flight and I would fly to Dallas and meet with somebody face to face because they don't care. And they're holding a piece of paper that has you contractually bound to this. And I think until you look at somebody in the eye and say, I don't think you get it. I don't have this money. This person right here told me something different. You sue me.

Take my money. I don't have it. And we have to come to an agreement here. Y'all can still rent these rooms. You got two months. But I think they're going to prey on, A, your ignorance in signing a contract. You didn't know what it meant. And they're also going to prey on the fact that this is just all hearsay, all phone calls, all emails back and forth.

Like getting a human being in a room is a totally different proposition. Where is it? Is it in a different country? No, it's in the U.S. Okay. Yes, it's in the U.S. It's the southeast. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, I would do that because I think the longer you extend this into September, I mean, which is next month, they're losing out on revenue they're gonna have a claim against you yeah I mean well they're gonna lose out on revenue of rooms that they could have booked and made like right that that will be their argument and so it gets really it gets really hard um from a legal standpoint when you sign a contract though that that that's the part that's like oh gosh because I mean you signed it right it wasn't that um you know they forged your signature or identity theft or you know some situation um and even though you didn't know what it meant or that someone verbally said something else like none of that really matters in the legal world what what is

on paper is what is true so I almost would find the contact that did say that to you verbally um and see if you can get something in writing from them just to help the argument that this is what you were told under those assumptions but the hard thing is is that if the contract doesn't say that doesn't matter it doesn't matter and you know no no lower level employee unless the those of the highest character would would say, yeah, I said that. Right. And they may have said that, and it may have been true. And whoever sent you the contract sent you the one that was going to be best for them, most advantageous for them.

And that's the one with your name on it. So where I see people go wrong, and I've been guilty of this too, is coming at this angrily. It's not fair. You did this. I think your best play here is to plead mercy all right it's my I signed my name on something I didn't understand I'm begging you guys for mercy I don't have this money and um you'll have two months to to redo these to put these rooms back on the market. Yeah. How many rooms have you sold or has it has been used in the block? So, um,

basically, um, I'm on the hook for, um, like 150 rooms and I've sold, I believe like 30. Okay. I'll leave it so much. Yeah.

So it's like, and then they, I have to make up. Where are the other guests staying? Well, so even though it's a destination, like it's a destination for a lot of my relatives, but I've lived here. So it's like.

Here's the other thing you could do. You could just go downtown and say party at your hotel. And you could tell the hotel people that, hey, if you're going to hold me to these rooms, you are not going to like the characters I'm going to come parading through. Oh my gosh. It's like a threat. You can go down and do like a punk rock show and just be like free hotels. I mean, honestly, I would do John to go in person and get the highest level you can and

plead mercy. Because if your signature is on a contract, it's really hard to avoid that unless an actual human will do that for you. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. One of the events that we do here at Ramsey that's been so fun and very popular, sold out, is the Money in Marriage Getaway. It's my favorite thing.

John and I, we host this event. We teach at it. It's a full weekend, long event, full experience as well for you and your spouse. Because, yeah, life's hectic and getting time away to actually work on, talk about, be in your marriage actually and working on it is huge. So we launched this event one in October and it sold out very quickly. And so we decided to open up another weekend. So this Valentine's weekend, you guys, in 2025,

we are hosting the Money and Marriage Getaway here at Ramsey Solutions. So we're gonna talk about how to communicate better, strengthen your emotional connection, get on the same page with money. We do live Q&As. We hang out with you guys. There's a few date night experiences. Like we just, we pack the weekend out.

And so we are so excited about it. So make sure to check it out at RamseySolutions.com slash events. Tickets start at $799 a couple. And there's even a few vip tickets left as well so go to ramsey solutions dot com slash events for the money and marriage getaway at valentine's day 2025 and i think this is a double dip uh ticket you can buy this ticket for your spouse for christmas and then it's on valent's weekend. So you get two for one. You don't have to.

You don't have to get a Valentine's gift. Yes. So if you're sitting there going, man, I hate having to buy this, you can solve all your problems with one purchase. Do it all there. So good. All right. Up next, we have Jeremy in Los Angeles.

Hey, Jeremy. Welcome to the show. Jeremy Spoken. What's up, dude? Jeremy, are you there? Jeremy. He didn't like my Pearl Jam song. Oh there he is. Hey Jeremy sorry that John was singing. Sorry that I was singing.

It's all good. Thank you man. Thanks for taking my call. I just had a I wanted your guys' opinion. I didn't really know who to ask but I'm a big fan of the show. I'm an over the road truck driver and I listen to you guys all the time so I just wanted your guys' opinion about my situation. Awesome.

Yeah. What's up? So basically, yeah, a couple years ago, I took out $100,000 personal loan to start a trucking business, you know, my own truck. So I've been rolling, and I had a cool little plan, but it's just real hard to pay everything off with the maintenance and then being on the road, stuff like that. So I pay about $8,000 a month right now

to just break even, and I'm about $80,000 in the hole. So I try to do the remaining balance and chop off. I have five loans out right now, and I've been trying to pay extra, but just with mechanics and trucking and all that maintenance and stuff,

I've just been ready to just throw in the towel. Yeah, it's sinking you. So you bought your own truck. Correct. I've been running California and Texas back and I kind of just go off the market. I don't know if you're familiar with the trucking market,

but it's terrible for owner operators right now. It's real bad. Are you doing side, side jobs too? Are you stuck running the same route? That's the problem. So like I, it takes,

so it's the make more money. I have to just live on the road, which I didn't really know because I was a company guy for 13 years. Yeah. So I kind of go, I do, I have a little dedicated lane. I go do it and get home on the weekends, which is brings me about three grand to 3,500 a week.

So I try to do that four times and then, you know, chop, chop the debt down. But I'm here almost three years in and I just, it's going really, really slow and I'm just like, I guess maintenance is killing me right now. And then the market it's just terrible man i hate that for you brother yeah have you i'm just trying to think about because you were you were working for someone is what you're saying for three years and how long have you been on your own yeah i've been on my own for three years i've been working for a big company uh yeah a big company for about 13 years, and I just got tired of corporate America, so I wanted to try it on my own.

The problem is if I go back to company now, I can't pay my bills. Well, let me ask you this. How much is your truck worth if you sold it? Yeah, right. So right now I owe $40,000 on my truck. It's worth about $15,000 or $ 15 or 20 because I already hit my million miles. Oh, you did? Right.

Okay, so you're making 12 grand a month is what you said, right? You're bringing in three a week. 10 to 12, yeah. 10 to 12. Your expenses are 8,000. Is that just for the truck? So 4,000 is my regular personal stuff, family stuff, and then $4,000 for the business.

What's your family situation? Are they back in L.A. while you're traveling? Is that like a wife and kids and all that? Okay. Yeah, my wife stays home, takes care of my kids and my daughter, and then I get home on the weekend. It's just stressful, man. It's a lot. I keep going little by little or my wife tells me to go hit the road and just stay out

there but i know personally no that's not that's not a good solution what like you said you got four or five outstanding debts rip them off for me what are they all right number one is going to be uh my truck which is 40 number two is another $30,000 loan because my transmission went out so that's 70 and i have a couple small credit cards 70 is that what you said correct 40 and 30 and then i have a couple small credit cards okay so my plan was to make my 3,000 a week and then just pay my, you know, three, three weeks,

pay my monthly stuff. And then the extra one, just try to chop it away. But man, the extra one has been going to maintenance. Yeah. And the 30,000 was to do a train. What was the 30,000?

Did you say a transmission? The 30, I took another, another little loan because my transmission went out okay this was way upside down with some debt so that's why i got another 30 so my truck i'm doing okay because i bought it for 75 i got it down to 40 but like i said i bought it in 22 and the market was great so as soon as i bought it like a year later everything crashed yeah but my fear is you're gonna get all this you're gonna take

this 70 grand you owe 30 and 40 on this truck in the in the transmission i'm due to pay it off i'm due to pay off that portion like probably the end of next year if i keep going in hard i know but then you'll be up to 1.4 million miles on this truck yeah 1.2 1.3 you're gonna be just in the same situation after Toronto take out another hundred thousand dollar loan man well if it's paid yeah I mean honestly Jeremy if it's if it's paid off at that point then I I would look to jump ship you gotta get out yeah I mean so how much are you making a year Jeremy how much are you bringing in a year so yeah so I'm gonna be making like almost? Yeah, so I'm going to be making like almost $300,000 this year. Yeah.

And I'm only going to take home like probably my net will probably be $80,000 to $100,000. That's crazy. Why is that? Just maintenance and there's a lot of expenses. The gross for trucking is really high, but your net is just really low. Yeah. Like, for example, this week I make $8,000, and I take all about $3,800. And you have to pay your own gas and insurance, all that, out of that money?

Yeah, I spend $2,000 a week just on fuel. Yeah. I lease onto a company. Is there no different routes to take? There is other routes, but then I live on the road, and in my head, I go crazy. So what I would do, Jeremy, honestly, because you said by the end of next year, you've got a year and four months to be able to get this paid off. And I would say, when we talk to people on this show, and we're like,

you've got to do everything. You've got to get side jobs. You're going to be working nights. You you're gonna be working weekends i mean there is an all-in approach and the pro is your all-in approach to make great money is something you know and you have a vested interest in uh because of this asset um so i mean i would map out with your wife and say okay i can't survive a year and four months with this schedule. I can't. I'm going to implode. So what is a realistic schedule? And that may push the debt out another maybe four or five months for your sanity purposes. But I would sit down and I would do a really detailed schedule to say,

okay, this is the week. Here's the month I'm traveling. I'm going to take this week off here. I'm going to travel these three. Map out what seems realistic because you're able to bring in good money. I get that it's being sucked down because of the truck, but I think you can pay this off. When you look at what you're actually bringing in, and I would tell your wife, we've got to be on a tight budget

at home. Is she working? She does not. I had her quit to stay home with my daughter. Bro, you've got to stop. It's going to cost your marriage and your relationship with your kid. She does not I had her quit To stay home with my daughter I think you gotta Bro you gotta stop It's gonna cost you Your marriage And your relationship With your kid

She's gotta get a job too In this season That would accelerate All of this so fast And then once all this Has paid off Then you guys reevaluate What you wanna do

With your life That's right And you may just Get rid of the truck And make five grand on it And go start something else That gives you your life back Dude you got in the ring

And you went for it And you got knocked down That's alright But you can't keep throwing the same punches right now. Thanks, Jeremy. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right. So I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets,

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and taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Up next, we have Terry in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hey, Terry, Welcome to the show. Hey, how you guys doing today? We're doing great. How can we help? I'm doing pretty well. First of all, I'd like to say I'm a huge fan of the show. You guys have

motivated me. I got onto you guys maybe about three or four years ago. Awesome. Well, thanks. Thanks for listening. Yeah, I've been following the baby steps and everything. So I paid. So my question is, I owe $10,000 on my car, and I have two credit cards left, one balance of $7,000 and one of $6,000.

And I have a tax bill I've got to pay that's like $7,000 and one is $6,000. And I have a tax bill I got to pay that's like $5,000. Okay. And I have $14,000 in savings. So I'm trying to decide on... I think I want to wipe my savings out, but I'm trying to see which direction I should go.

Should I pay my car first just to get that out of the way because that'll free up like about $550 a month? Or should I just go ahead and wipe the way because that'll free up like about 550 bucks a month or should i just go ahead and let the two remaining credit cards out yeah um well what we teach is paying off the smallest debt first regardless of payments or interest and what we have found it is the most effective way but first and foremost let me just say before we get into that that if you owe the irs that's the very first tax even if it's not the lowest in your case it is the most effective way. But first and foremost, let me just say before we get into that, that if you owe the IRS,

that's the very first tax, even if it's not the lowest. In your case, it is. But for people listening, if it's not the lowest, it's still the number one priority is you do not want to owe the IRS. So I would be, yeah,

I would be paying that off first and foremost, for sure. Okay. Yep. And that leaves you, yeah, with nine, you want a thousand dollar Emergency fund So you'll have eight left

So I would knock out That first credit card The six thousand Dollar credit card Bring your seven thousand Dollar credit card Down to six And then start

Chipping that away And then your car Okay Okay That's what I was Trying to decide And I knew I wanted I was like

I got Because I Was so strange I got to looking over My My credit report And I got to see An I was like, because I was so strange, I got to looking over my credit report and I got to see a lot of you. Because, I mean, I've been well intense on paying. I paid out five cars with some of you guys. Oh, my gosh. Five cars?

What makes you have five cars? No, no, cars. Cars. Oh, I think you said cars. I was like, Terry, let's sell some of these cars we have to pay them off no no i don't want the i don't like the one that i have oh man that's so great can i just tell you can we celebrate you for a second sure that's incredible it is amazing what's the dollar amount on those five cards one of them was a six thousand uh one of them was two thousand

uh one was five hundred uh one was four thousand and one was three thousand man one was twelve hundred i believe amazing gosh so terry you just, for just those of you, everyone listening and watching, I'm just curious, context of your life. Was it kind of just like, yeah, I'm going to just swipe cards here or there, and I'm just living my life, and you did that for years and years,

and then you looked up one day and thought, I don't want to keep doing this. I got, well, what happened was I got hooked on the balance transfer hamster wheel. Ah, okay. You know, once the 18 months runs out. Well, I just opened up another one, you know, which was totally foolish. You were going to be the one guy that beat the system, huh?

Yeah, yeah. And I found out the hard way, especially when the pandemic hit and things had kind of slowed up. And then when you look at those payments and, you know, once that zero balance wears off, you get one card that says $187 for the payment. And then you make that payment and $150 goes towards the interest and $20 goes towards the principal. That's right. So I just, you know, listening to you guys, I was like, you know, this has got to see. And, you know, what's funny is since I paid those amounts, I'm starting to see a little bit more money in my pocket. Yes.

Yeah, that's so true. And, hey, you're a perfect example, Terryry of why we teach it the way we teach it because we get a lot of grief on the internets because somebody has a 2.9 or 3.0 percent mortgage and they can put it in a high yield savings account and make five percent so they make two percent and they call us stupid because we tell you to pay your house off right and right you are getting the psychology part which i believe in many cases is more important than math which is you've had five wins and you're starting to come alive like now it's starting to be like i'm done with all this you see what i'm saying like if you had started with a car you may have got halfway through it and said, forget it, man.

I've been paying on this thing for five months and whatever. Lots of progress. But you got the little one and then another little one and then another little one. And now you're fully in it, man. How much do you make a year? Well, I got a couple of side hustles. So total about $107,000. That's including my main job

and my side hustles I got going on. So when you knock this out, you're going to, like by today, you're going to be done with the government. We don't ever want to owe the government money because they don't act right. And then you're going to be done with the $6,000 credit card.

You're going to have $1,000 and that's going to make you nervous, but that nervous is good. And then you're going to owe $7,000 plus $10,000. So you got $17,000. How silly do you want to get? How silly do I want to get? I mean, I want this stuff gone.

Like January 1, silly? Yeah, I would love to be gone by January. Okay, I want you to do this. I want you to pay those things off today, and then I want you to sit down with the calculator and ask yourself what must be true between now, the end of August, and January 1. What would I have to do for these last few months to knock out 17 grand?

Definitely. Can I give you guys kudos on something else, too? For sure. You guys actually talked me out of doing a cash-out refi. No! I'm so glad. We talked him out of it. Good.

No, I'm saying don't even think about it. Good. Good. Yeah, until I found out the stipulations on it, I was like, because, I mean, I got my mortgage. My interest rate is at pretty much 4.2 right now. So, and I got to thinking about it. I was like, well, I contacted my mortgage company, and they got to talk to me about this cash out, refi cash. So you can do that to pay out debt.

And I found out exactly what it was. And I think I listened to you guys talk about HELOC. And I was like, I'm not going to do that because that will change my interest rate. My payment will go up higher. Well, what's interesting, Terry, it's the same philosophy of what you were doing, card hopping, basically, right? You run out. Well, I'm just going to move that balance. It's basically the same.

You're taking equity out of something else just to move the debt around. And you're realizing it's not working. Well, Terry, you're amazing. So awesome. Pr terry you're amazing so awesome i mean for real and and i think that this goes to show which i appreciate you sharing more of your story and where you were at because i mean that that's normal i mean this is this is what we talk about all the time on this show and this is what we see and until you make the decision i'm gonna try something different like terry did you're not you're not going to get a different result and he's i mean he paid off five

cards not cars i'm glad glad they weren't cars uh and he'll have two more done today yeah he'll have yeah one more card in the government for sure yeah um and and part of the that that last credit card so absolutely incredible incredible. Okay, I want to get to another call, but I just need to say this. Everybody think through this. These credit card companies would not all work together to allow you to go 18 months,

quote unquote, interest-free or whatever, and just open another one. They wouldn't allow that merry-go-round like he was talking about if they didn't all know they win in the end. That's right. Very. There is a mother-in-law out there who's got a spreadsheet

who plays this game kind of like Bunko, and she's doing it. She's winning. Fine. It's not you. The same as the guys who like to day trade. They love you guys because they'll take your money. And it's just knowing like, I can't beat these multi, multi, multi-billion dollar companies. They've got better computers than me. They've got better psychologists working for them.

At the end of the day, they're going to win. So I'm just going to play this thing straight up. And I'm not going to play their game at all. I'm going to opt out. Right? Yes, absolutely. Just look in the mirror like Terry did and saying, all right, you got me. You got me. I'm going to do something different now. Yeah. I can Yes, absolutely. It's just look in the mirror like Terry did and saying, you got me. You got me.

I'm going to do something different now. It's kind of that play with things. You're going to get bit. Philosophy to a degree. You can pay your credit card off every month. They will win. They're smarter, you guys. They're richer. It's like me and Instagram. They're better than me.

I have to have it on a different phone because they're better than me. They just are. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. The question of the day comes from Y Refi. The Ramsey Show. The question of the day comes from WhyRefi. The Ramsey Show. This is one of our new sponsors, which we love because if you are in default with private student loans, you need to contact WhyRefi. And obviously, we don't encourage letting your loans go into default. We teach responsibility. But these amounts have some of you struggling and there is a way forward. So Y Refi was created for people in your situation. So go to Y Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y R E F Y.com slash Ramsey may not be available in all States. All right. Today's question comes from Justin in Virginia. Justin writes, how can I stop being jealous of how much my siblings and in-laws earn? My wife and I have no debt

and a really good household income. We're happy in our careers. We're not missing out on anything due to how much we earn. I just can't figure out how to not be so triggered and frustrated by other people's income. Wow.

That's a very self-aware question. Very interesting. Yes. What do you think rachel um gosh and i'm curious how he i wonder if he knows the actual number of the income or if he is making up a story in his head that they're making a ton because of how they're living gotcha because lifestyle and income are obviously two different things um so i'd be curious on that what's causing you to think that they're earning more is it because of how they live their life and kind of sucky part is when you live your life responsibly for a season it's not going to look flashy eventually you'll start to build wealth and you can enjoy it but there is kind of that season of

of grounding which is where you guys are um but if you know the number and you're like, oh no, they make half a million or whatever crazy a year. I mean, I have learned, John, when moments like that come up for me and it's not income necessarily, it could be, but I don't hear people's income a lot, but a situation that they're experiencing something that I want to experience. As much as I can muster up just celebrating them,

it's amazing how that fades quickly where the eyes are off of me. My eyes are off of me. And you can just be excited for somebody, right? Genuinely. And it doesn't always come easy, I don't think. But when you can just be happy for them, and hopefully maybe they're in a great career that's helping other people or something. I don't know that you can find like the silver lining in what they're doing and being excited.'s helping other people or something. I don't know that you can find like the silver lining and what they're doing and being excited. But the fact that you're being triggered constantly, I'm wondering,

you know, your level of contentment is, is obviously not fully baked, right? Yeah. I've, I have found that I always want to pull the string that's attached to that story.

And somewhere in Justin's heart and mind, the dollar amount that you earn every year is attached to value, to how much you're worth. Yep, yep. And somebody told you that somewhere and I found it helpful to get to the, like, where did that story come from?

Oh. Dad used to tell older brother how great he was because he made $6 an hour, I only made $5. Like, whatever that story is. Yep. But the other thing thing is i think you're right i think justin would be pretty cool to out of the blue write your siblings a letter and just say i see you know i'm so proud of you i see how hard you're working and i see what an amazing and instead of when you feel that

jealousy our tendency is to pull away instead of go towards that person to celebrate them and our bodies have a way of of adjusting for that proximity like we're we're in support and it just over time realizes i don't have we're not in competition i don't have to fight you i have a great life one other quick thing often when you are creating a life, I'll say it like this, that is less alive. When you are in a, we go to work, we make this much money,

we have this couch, we have this house, we have this car, we were supposed to be happy here. It's easy to put your eyes up and start looking for what other people have that you don't. And it often,

over the course of my life, when I found myself jealous in certain places, it often over the course of my life when i found myself jealous in certain places it has often brought me and my wife back to the table to say what life are we creating for ourselves and where do we find excitement and aliveness and adventure and um joy in our home because it's not it i'm starting to look for other places yeah right yeah and it almost always comes back to we've become co-managers of our house such a great that's a good point and so the stagnant like being stagnant yeah in life and i think we've gone through season of that of that yeah you look up and you're like oh my gosh we've just been doing the same thing and

there's not as much laughter or joy or levity right that's right that's right but when you say no we're putting the phones away we're doing family game night and we're gonna do this stupid game that's so silly but everyone ends up laughing right you say, no, we're putting the phones away, we're doing family game night and we're going to do this stupid game. That's so silly. But everyone ends up laughing, right? You just do these things and they don't have to be expensive. I mean, gosh, it was last break before the summer, though. I think it was spring. And we took all the kids and we went to a local high school, like parking lot, ran with

bikes and they still talk about it. Like, do you remember we were bikes in a parking lot? And I was like, you ride bikes all the time. But it was like this, like, I don't know. It was so like, it was so small and insignificant,

but to them, right. It brought this like other magic of like this new place or whatever it was for them. But it's those things. And again, it doesn't have to cost money. You don't have to go travel to Europe to do that. Like find,

find it in your home. Cause gosh, we need it. All of us, right. Especially this time of year, election season and everything. We're just like, oh Because gosh, we need it. All of us, right? Especially this time of year. With election season and everything,

we're just like, oh my gosh, give me some levity and enjoyment with the people that you love. But it's recognizing levity and joy for 99% of us is a choice. There are people in abusive situations, yes. There are people who are deep poverty, yes. There are people who are abjectly on the margins, yes. But for most of us, we go home and we look at our spouse and we choose what happens next we choose

how we respond we choose our frustration we choose to not pick up the trash not put our clothes away we choose to just watch tv just sit there on our phones all of those are choices and that means we can choose something different yep and so justin i i challenge you to sit down with your wife and y'all reimagine your life and you might end up in the exact same space but the exercise of reimagining it what adventures do we want to create inside of our own home even for no money what does that look like totally it can rearrange everything and write your siblings a letter a handwritten letter tell them how freaking proud of them you are. It's so cool. It's going to swallow some pride to do that, right? When you're in a state of... Or it opens your heart up and you realize...

It does, but that takes a... Okay. I'm going to celebrate something that is not always fun for me, but you start to learn it. So good. All right. Up next, we have Dan in Eugene, Oregon. Hey, Dan, welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hi, we have Dan in Eugene, Oregon. Hey, Dan, welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hi, John. How are you? We're doing great. How are you? I'm, I'm, uh, oh, not great number of years, I guess. Um, my, my question, my question for you is how do I calculate when I can feasibly retire and or when I can start to plan a second career? And the rough years is I'm about three years into being a widow, widower. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you.

I have three kids. Two of them will go to college. I owe $380 on my house. And I sort of, as I was sort of looking at as, I don't know, I guess getting our lives back in order over the last number of years, one of the Ramsey quotes of why don't they teach this stuff in school is of like, you know, how do you even calculate what is the right trajectory? And now that I'm doing it for alone, one, and two is for myself. It's a alone, I guess I should say, or as a single person. Yep. How old are you, I guess I should say, as a single person.

How old are you, Dan? I'm 48. 48, okay. Hey, Dan, before Rachel's going to walk you through the numbers of it, can I challenge you on something? Yeah. And this might be a harder exercise than the math problem. Sure. But I would love for you to spend some time. And unfortunately,

I don't know that you can do this with anybody other than just taking Dan out on a retreat. But I would love for you to figure out or ask yourself, what do you want it to feel like when you walk in your front door at the age of 55? Yeah, that's good. Because I want you to ask yourself, what kind of life do you want to have at 55? Because that's going to determine the math problem. Yeah. Because I think when you get to the numbers really quick, Dan, we only have about 40 seconds. So I'm sorry for the short call. It's going to be looking at what do you have in retirement now? And then averaging out, you know, average returns 10 to 12%, whatever that looks like, and knowing your lifestyle to John's point, how much is it going

to take to run your household at retirement retirement And what is it going to look like To be able to You know You have to Calculate inflation And all of that Now if you have not Set down with a SmartVestor Pro

I would do that You can go to RamseySolutions.com And find one in your area Because I want to be able To see all of your numbers Everything that you have In retirement

Including this house And what's going to be The best bet To get you in a place But again It's lifestyle It's return on the market, and inflation that goes up every year is kind of the determining factor.

So thanks for the call. Thanks to everyone in the booth. John, thanks for a great hour. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, excuse me, Dr. John Deloney. Hey, puberty gets us all eventually, Rachel. I need some water. Hey, can we talk about what we were just talking about? Are we allowed to? Well, let's just say that you can call us

at 888-825-5225 and we'll take your calls on life money and all of it go what were we talking about that we're all gonna be okay that's what we're talking about james i don't want to get you canceled no we're not gonna cancel anybody here's the thing there's just a lot of drama in our world today and we just want everyone to take a deep breath and say we're all gonna be okay we are all gonna be okay i yeah um yeah we were just talking off air like there's this this um no matter where you go i know james has got his hand on the dump button um there's this idea that if either one of these can it's the end of the world either way and i guess

i call me crazy. I just, I, we were talking, you and I travel a lot. We're all over the place. I was just in rural Pennsylvania and then I spent the evening in Pittsburgh. I just have more faith in the American people. Yes.

I just have faith in people showing up for each other because I keep seeing it over and over and over and over again. And I see it. I have the, not the fortune, the good fortune, but the honor of sitting with people when loved ones die, when the wildest things happen, and the number of people who show up,

and they show up from work, and they show up from church, and they show up from neighborhoods, and they show up all over the place. And I, again, maybe I'm crazy. I just don't believe that a single person is going to take the whole thing down. I believe in the American people. I just do. And if you're a person of faith, you know how this whole thing ends.

And so you should be the least worried about the drama. And it just, it's just, I came back with a totally, it was, it was, I'm glad I went away. I got on an airplane at 4 a.m. this morning. I got up at 4 a.m. and I caught an early flight to get back. I'm glad I was out because it was just one of those reminders that people are good and they show up for each other. And there's idiots everywhere and there's bad people. I know that. I'm not naive.

It's the small percentages on anything in life that get the loudest voice. And we just want all of you to know there's just good people in America. And we're all going to be okay. Take care of your household. We're all going to be okay. We are. Take care of your household. Okay.

Up next, we're going to Ontario, Canada with, oh gosh, I don't want to mispronounce. Shaquib. What's up? Shaquib. I don't want to mispronounce your name. Rachel's not good at reading either, brother. What's up, dude? Hey, how are you guys doing?

We're doing great. Welcome to the show. How can we help? So what happened is me and my wife got involved in investing online into crypto. Oh, no. How much did you lose? We lost a lot of money. Personally, we lost around 80K.

Like, we lost about 50 some odd dollars in debt thousand like 50 my wife did numbers about 58 000 in debt my dad helped me my father-in-law helped me to sell my car what happened is when it came time to withdraw the ethereum these people started saying, oh, you know, you have to pay these fees. It's a first time withdrawal. I was like, okay, I'll pay fees. Paid it. And then it was another story.

Paid that. And then what ended up happening is that when I was close to getting my withdrawal, they sent me some email from the IRS. And I was like, okay. And I looked at the email and it came from an irs gmail account and i was like all right that's obviously messed up so i contacted the real irs irs said that you know this is a scam the whole thing was a scam yeah i'm so sorry i'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Oh, man. So when you're 80K in the hole,

if you put 80K, did you borrow $80,000 from various places to put towards crypto and now you have to pay that back? Where's this 80,000 lost? So my dad gave me about 20. My father-in-law gave me about 10. My wife took out 25K on her line of credit.

She took out five on her credit card. She got a 6K loan. I took 14 from a money mart loan, which ended up being a payday thing, but I didn't care because when I was thinking about my crypto, I was like, okay, when I get my crypto, I'll pay that back. And then I took a 5K loan on my credit card. So you've got a lot of, you've got some credit cards and some personal loans to pay back, but you also have a lot of shame, right? Like you got to look your father and your father on the eye and say, I lost your money and I'm sorry. Yeah. I mean, my dad was honestly awesome. He, like, when I told him about it, like, I told him, like, you know,

that this is what happened. And he told me, he's like, honestly, don't worry. These things happen in life. He's like, I'm still here. He's like, I'm still gonna help you. That's a good man. It's kind. How much do you and your wife make a year?

I'm about 60 and my wife is about the same. Okay. Is that before tax? That's before tax. Okay. And Ontario takes about 85% of that tax. Yeah, what do you bring home a year, like a month? What hits your account a month? A month, I bring a little under four.

My wife right now, she's on maternity leave, but she's going back to work now because of the situation. Yeah. And she'll probably be bringing in around, if it's like a good month, maybe around like 36, 37. Okay. Okay. So it'll be, yeah, around 7,000. Okay. Okay. So it'll be, yeah, around $7,000. Yeah. I mean, I wish I could wave a wand in this. You can go back in time and do things differently. And, you know, what we call around here when we make mistakes that cost us money, you know, a lot of money, a small amount of money, but just when we do stupid things, we call it stupid tax i hate to say it but i'm like you got a big you got a big stupid tax bill and i think you

kind of just you you have to you know understand like oh my gosh you know you obviously do that what we did was was stupid but then you want to start cleaning up this mess and so um do you guys have any other debt or is it just the crypto so we have my wife has a car loan so i think there's about like 22k left on that okay and then i have my student loans it's a little over 8 000 okay okay how much could she could she sell the car for have you kelly blue booked it how much did i sell my car for? No, how much is hers worth? Oh, hers might be worth maybe $20,000. Oh, no, that's not. If I did.

Oh, shoot, you're breaking up. No, you're cutting up on us. Okay, well, let me say this, if we get you back or not, but I would be selling the car today. I think $22,000 in the middle of all this mess, I mean, that puts you over a hundred grand in debt completely. So that car, it's done. And if you have to take a small loan for the difference, I couldn't tell.

I thought he said it was 28. Was it 28? That means he clears six. Yeah, so then go buy a used car. And then I would start working this snowball effect, the smallest debt first. And I would throw your 8,000 in your student loans in there as well.

I mean, I would make a full list. And think you know I don't know there's kind of a silver lining the fact that some of these are just kind of ankle biters 5,000 here 5,000 6,000 we talked to a guy last hour who had a bunch of credit card debt same kind of idea not because of crypto but he was able to knock it out and I think that in that motivation is going to help you guys knock off these small ones and keep you keep that ball rolling. And then I would have a conversation with your father, which you did and father-in-law and just give them a timeline of,

Hey, here's where I think I'm going to pay it back. But out of dignity, even if your dad forgives it, there's a part of me that I would pay him back. And I would say, I took this money and messed up and, you know,

and I think that was, was dad or father-in-law investors or did you borrow money from them? And I think that might be two different answers there. That's true. That's true. Okay, this is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers.

Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of

millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am here with Dr. John Deloney and we have a special guest in the studio

with us this segment. Hey, it's one of my heroes. One of my heroes. Do you hear that? This is making my year, John. It is. Dr. Arthur Brooks, professor of practice of public and non-profit leadership at the

Harvard Kennedy School. I used to think I was smart. And then you spend 30 seconds with Dr. Brooks and you're like, nah. You're playing smart, John. Hey, but listen, you wrote what I think is, if I was to take 10 books of the last 25 years, you wrote this masterpiece from strength to strength. And you recently wrote a new book with Oprah Winfrey, which is not a bad co-author. Not bad.

Called Build the Life You Want. Just an amazing voice out in the world. You do something very unique. You teach happiness. Yeah, science of happiness. The science of happiness, which is God help us, we need it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The world, I mean, it's, you look at the data on the, you know, what's been going on in the United States and around the world, we've been taken down in happiness since about 1990, as a matter of fact. Just free falling. It's, you know, I dedicated my, the in the United States and around the world, we've been taken down in happiness since about 1990, as a matter of fact. It's free falling. It's, you know, I dedicated the rest of my life to lifting people up.

I'm bringing them together in bonds of happiness and love using science as a scientist, because that's what the world needs most. Okay. So I want to know from that scientific perspective, because you can have the motivational quotes, you can have the gratitude journal, like write all this stuff. But for real, in science, what have you found yeah because everything you've written about but like what are some of the things that you're you see that's just mind blowing because it has to be where you actually see science and emotion all come together yeah

no it's it's an incredible field my mind is getting blown continuously i read a column every thursday in the atlantic about the science of happiness and i've done 204 columns and i'm just getting started. Still learning. There is so much about it. There's so much to write about it. But when I have, you know, if I get an elevator ride with somebody, they're like, what's the secret?

I better have something to say. Here it is. The habits of the happiest people come down to four things. Faith, family, friends, and work serving others. And this is not influencer mumbo jumbo. No, no, no. You're a harvard scientist this is based on this is this is this is my behavioral science background the last 30

years since i got my phd say it again faith family friendship and meaningful work which means that you're serving others okay that's what it is walk through some of those real quick so faith what does that mean people of faith is it because there is something higher than them? There's something bigger than them. It's not just about them on this earth, right? Yeah, and I'm not saying my faith. I'm a Christian. It's literally the most important thing in my life.

But I will say as a scientist, I won't say who's right, but I will say as a scientist, what you need from faith is something transcended to you. What that means is Mother Nature will put you in the psychodrama of your life where you're the star and it's awful

because Mother Nature doesn't care if you're happy. She wants you to focus on me, me, me, me, me all day long. You need to get little and make the universe big. Now, faith is the single best way to do it. And the more you focus on it and practice it every day, it doesn't feel natural at first, but I'm telling you, it's the game changer. It's there. It's so good. That's number one. The higher power. Yeah. Number one. Number two is family. And people define it differently in different ways. And John and I know the neurobiology of how oxytocin lifts you with your kin because we're a bunch of nerds.

But it really comes down to this. If you're walking away from your family or you're letting anything besides abuse put a schism in your family, you're ruining your happiness and theirs too. People, one in six Americans is not talking to a family member today because of politics. It's insanity. So we're letting all these things completely drive a wedge into one of the four pillars of our happiness. For sure. Politicians want us to do that. The media wants us to do that. Wow. Look, when you're walking away from your family, somebody's profiting and it's not you. That's the bottom line. And no matter how much you think you're winning,

it's coming at a cost. You're losing. You're losing because it's a bad proposition. You're basically, it's the stuff that you guys talk about, but in the ledger of happiness, what it comes down to, bad investment. Third is friendship. Now, we're at the lowest point in friendship

that we've seen since we've been keeping records. Loneliness is higher than it's ever been in the United States, but we're around people all the time. What's the deal? And the answer is that we're mediating our relationships with electronics. This is a problem. Social media relationships are not real relationships. Now, a lot of people, I deal with a lot of people who are really,

really successful, and they say, I'm so lonely even though I'm with people all day long. And I say, well, that's a problem. You don't have any real friends. You just have deal friends. And everybody knows the difference between real and deal. But with young people, it's real and virtual. So social media won't get it done.

It just won't. If it's going through a screen, you're not going to get the brain chemistry that you need. And if you want to know whether or not you've got enough of this going on, if you're finding that you're feeling lonely despite having a lot of conversations with people, then you're doing the conversations wrong. I was going to say, because the content of the friendship is what's key there, right? The vulnerability, the honesty, being known at a deep level.

And also the contact, the method of contact, eye contact. Of that too. So the in-person. Okay so tell me this i'm gonna yeah i'm gonna tell on myself i'm gonna tell on myself real quick because i'm curious what you think about this but so marco polo is an app it's a video app and so there's me and three girlfriends and we keep up i mean almost every day like when i come home from work i'll they'll kind of chime in because we're all over right uh we're not all in the same city can we have that same connection if our conversations are are good and we're knowing what's going on and we're checking all in the same city. Can we have that same connection if our conversations are good and we're knowing what's going on

and we're checking in and asking questions and all of it? I mean, I know it's not as fruitful as like a back-to-back in person. Yeah, so, yeah, go ahead. Tell me about that. Yeah, I'll say, so here's kind of, here's what's going on in your brain. Okay.

So you have a neuropeptide, a hormone in your brain that's intensely pleasurable called oxytocin. The biggest amount that you get is when you lay eyes on your newborn infant. And it's like the 4th of July inside your head. Totally, yeah. We have this because we're supposed to be linked to our people, and they're supposed to be linked to us. So when you're lonely, you won't be able to sleep.

Things are messed up. You feel out of sorts. You're feeling restless all the time. The reason is because you have a deficit of oxytocin. And the monkey's on your back. It's like you're an addict and can't get what you want is the way that that works. OK, so all of these mediated ways to deal with people.

Look, we have a Pleistocene brain. We have caveman brain. I mean, we have not evolved our brains over 250,000 years. We're made to be connected to our kin. Because we're a kin-based hierarchical tropical species. That's what homo sapiens is right now. There are all sorts of ways that we can change that, like invent coats so we don't have to live in tropical places. We're still kin-based. And we link to each other neurobiologically through this hormone. So in person, eye contact, that's best. Below that is anything that gets you closer to that particular

experience. Zoom is terrible. Zoom is terrible. Zoom is the Twinkies, right? Zoom is like getting, well, actually the worst is social media because they're not even there. So Zoom is like getting all of your meals through fast food. It's the junk food of social life yes you'll become obese and malnourished simultaneously okay so can i ask one question yeah this has been haunting me and you and i were talking about this earlier there is data on the psychology of debt yes wait dave has been talking about this for 30 years the borrow slave bill lender that's from scripture but there is now it's like like there's data that suggests we got it we we know how money and happiness are related okay we got we got like a minute talk to us grandma says that money doesn't bring happiness she's right but money at low levels can eliminate sources of

unhappiness unless you spend the money wrong there's five ways to spend your money. Buy stuff, buy experiences with the people you love, buy time and spend it with the people that you love, give it away and save it. It turns out the one thing that your neurobiology wants you to do, which is go buy stuff, is the one thing that doesn't buy happiness. The other four will. Now, it depends on where you are. If you're actually at the bottom and you're trying to make your way, the best way that you can actually bring happiness to your life is save your money because you're making progress. There's a ton of psychology behind this.

And by the way, going into debt, especially for consumer things, will reliably make you miserable. That's not just Dave having fun and being angry. This is happiness science, my friends. Oh, yeah, it's changed my life and it's helped me to give better advice to people at all different stations in life and different economic circumstances.

Because I can say this to people. I can say, look, I got the data on this. And by the way, if you're really, really rich, God bless you. That's wonderful. I'm so happy for you under the circumstances. But that means you have to still spend your money the right way.

Getting a fifth Ferrari is not the right thing to do. Experiences with people that you love. Philanthropy. These are the ways for you to buy your happiness. Don't buy like crap. You're not going to be on your deathbed saying, I wish I'd bought more crap. That's right. But you're going to say, I wish I'd taken a fishing trip with my buddies. I wish I had actually spent more time with the people that I love. And I wish I'd supported the causes trip with my buddies. I wish I had actually spent more time with the people that I love. And I wish I'd supported the causes about which I'm passionate. So good. Oh, my gosh.

One of my absolute heroes, Dr. Arthur Brooks. Yeah. So you guys check out his book, Build the Life You Want. Thank you so much. I wish we had like the whole hour with you. We'll do it again. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thanks. This is The Ramsey Show. We do the Ramsey Show live every day from one to four central time right outside of Nashville, Tennessee and Franklin, Tennessee at our headquarters. And we have a studio on the glass and a area for people to come and watch. So we have some audience that comes and hangs out with us and gets coffee and tea and cookies and all the things for free. And also in the lobby, we have our debt-free stage. And right now, Francisco and Brasheeth are standing on it for good reason. Welcome, you guys. Thank you.

All right. So you're debt-free. Yes, we are. Incredible. Okay. Where are you guys from? North of Austin at Fort Hood. Okay. Yeah, I got family there in Temple. Oh, nice. Yeah, right there. It's a beautiful part of the country man yes it is amazing okay how much have you guys paid off uh 105 000 and how long did that take you uh 13 months 13 months making what

kind of money uh so we started out with 84 000 and then by the end of it we were at uh 96 000 oh my gosh incredible incredible y'all sell some stuff oh yeah she sold almost like half the house the kids were definitely next she's like they're all it's all going it's all going it's all going okay you guys so what was the 105 000 so it was 19 credit cards, two car loans, and then two personal loans. Oh, man. Yeah. 19. 19.

If there was a credit card for Starbucks, I would have it. Yeah. So were you the spender or are you the spender? I am the spender. Yes. Yes. Well, she can't take most of the credit. I would also go to the little shop atase and like buy an energy drink or a slice

of pizza just about every day. Swipe, swipe, swipe. Just go and enjoy it. Okay. Okay. So what happened 13 months ago that created this shift, this change to get out of $105,000 in debt? So I'd like to start off by saying that I'm um i did 12 years in the service so i was

i'm medically retired 100 disabled and he's still serving um and with two paychecks we were still not having any money at all um and then with four kids the we we would have like seventeen dollars left each paycheck. Yeah. And it was kind of like it was kind of getting out of hand. You know, we couldn't buy our cat food. We couldn't we could buy stuff. But with credit cards or after pay. Yeah. So we kind of kind of got upset. You know, like, what are we doing? Well well the the the straw that broke the camel's back was i wanted a little japanese k truck and uh she was like how are we gonna pay for it i was like we could just take out another loan like we're good with our payments like what's what's another

hundred dollars right yeah um and then that's what broke the camel's back and then uh my sister-in-law actually did dave ramsey in 2016 and uh she was supposed to come over to our house and like have a relaxing weekend but we were like uh we need help with this yeah yeah and you know she's always like talked about it and we always talked about money you know we were we're very open but we were just not ready because everything was fine we were making our payments you know 17 at the end of the day is fine because we have credit cards so um she came over she sat down and like boot camp everything you know like was she so excited was like i've been waiting for this day for you guys to be able to come come and see the light i don't know if she was excited um but she was so helpful and like everything we just, every step, like she set us down

and she created like our budget. She created everything like in questions. And when we were hesitant, she was there for us. Yeah. So that definitely like helped us out a lot. Incredible. You guys. Okay.

So you upped your income. You sold half the house. You said, did you guys do anything else? Any extra side hustles or did you cut expenses like what was some of the things that you did that really helped so um we with the help of my sister we set a very realistic budget where you know i had money for my nails i'm like i don't need money for my nails she's like okay you need to be realistic like hobbies i'm like i don't need hobbies eating out we don't need mcdonald's you know she's like you're gonna fail if you don't keep it real it's good so the budget helped um francisco

made a sacrifice to deploy so he can get that tax-free income so i was left at home with our beautiful children um but it was a sacrifice we made for our family wow how long were you deployed for just three months it wasn't too long yeah that's long i mean that's a lot yeah yeah it's three months man i was like i felt the three months yeah um and well he was gone um i was going i was i'm a full-time college student well he was gone i was like what can i do to you know know, make more money? So I was selling the entire house. Even if it's a dollar, it was a dollar towards debt. Like every dollar counts. And then I kind of started picking up pet waste and cutting people's grass.

Gosh. So I would like drop off the kids at school and then put the baby on my back and just kind of like. And you would go and mow lawns. Mow lawns and pick up pet waste and dude you are ruining 70 to 100 million people's lives right now because they're sitting home going i don't have time to do that i can't do that so i actually have a pretty really cool picture of her she has our daughter uh baby wearing her in front while breastfeeding her while weed eating while i'm mowing there was no excuses yeah

there was no excuse for us not to get out of there you're the most gangster person i've ever met in my life and she has two sleeves of tattoos but for those of you that can't see like she really is she really is like francisco you just gotta know like if you ever cross her they're not gonna find your body yeah she listens to crime junkies too. I know she does. I'm sure. I know. I can feel it through the glass. So we were very, I'm very passionate when I get going into things and I like to go all the way in. Oh, really? I can tell. I was like, honey, when you come home, you have like a day and a half to get used to

the new time zone and then I need you to go mow lawns, you know? So I will say that we never had any, any well we're shortly going to celebrate our 11 years of being married um and we never argued about money until we were arguing about the speed that we wanted to go and i was like everything's on fire we need to pay this off now like we can't eat he's like honey we were eating before like what are you worried about so um you know we we would fight a lot in the beginning because i argue we'll argue because of like you know i wanted to be so intense and he's like just sit down dude like it's fine you know and i'm like it's not fine yeah yeah yeah so um you know we prayed and we just kept our communication.

And the beautiful thing is, you know, it's 13 months, right? Yeah. Yeah. And this isn't 13 years of your life living like this. It was 13 months and you did it and you got out, right? You got out of debt. So I want to know, how does it feel today being right here with us, completely debt-free versus where you were 13, 14, 15 months ago? What's the difference?

It's unreal, honestly. There's, like, really no stress at all whatsoever because, I mean, now what do we have, just a phone bill, internet? Like, that's it. Like, what do we do with all this money? Yeah, we have so much. Like, we don't know what to do with it now. So we're actually going to go talk to a Ramsey investor uh next tuesday so yeah like we're gonna start putting our money

to work for us so good are y'all gonna do anything fun with all the kids and everything so unfortunately um he's leaving for japan for three years in um thursday so we're just trying to stack money up so in case we get denied to go as a family, I can just pack our stuff, pack the kids and get on a plane. Oh my gosh, y'all may be going. Yeah, y'all may be. Y'all have a big transition coming up. Yeah, so we're saving for that. This is the least of your, I feel like of your life.

You're going to Japan for three years. Is that for job? Military? Yeah. Yes, ma'am. But can we say this? Y'all put in the work for 13 months and now you can literally pack up and move across the world to stay together as a family if you want.

You can do whatever you want because nobody owns your family anymore. Yes. So they can medically, they can say, no, we don't have the needs for your family. And I could be like, okay, well, I'm just going to go to Japan and all that. Oh my gosh. Like I'm not worried about money. Yes. That's right.

So you guys, y'all, y'all are incredible. I don't want to, I want to make sure we get your, your debt-free screen because you have all your kids. So bring them up. What are the ages and names? So we have Leah, who's nine. We have Ethan, who's eight. Sebastian, who's five.

Victoria's two. And this is my mentor, my sensei, my sister, Helen. Oh, you guys, you're incredible. All right, we have Francisco and Brasheeth from Fort Hood, Texas. There you go. That paid off $105,000 in 13 months, making $84,000 to $96,000. You guys, count it down. Let's hear your debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Amazing. Paul, that is how it's done. No more excuses, America. Sorry, they ruined it for you. No more excuses. If you want to, you can. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative

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slash budgets. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Some incredible, incredible people. I feel like, this hour. From Dr. Arthur Brooks. I mean, Dr. Brooks, one of my heroes. To the most amazing debt-free scream of a lady mowing lawns with a baby carrier in front of her. I mean, y'all, I mean, just amazing. This is the hope that we have in America, right? I'm telling you, I think we're going to be all right.

It is so great. All right, let's go to the calls. We got Jay in Nashville. Hey, let's go to the calls. We got Jay in Nashville. Hey, Jay, welcome to the show. Hey, how you guys doing? We are doing great. How can we help? Yes, I want to tell you all, first off, thank you.

I listen to you all. First thing in the morning, I get up early, try to get my workout in, and listen to you all while I'm working out. So glad. That's awesome. Thank you. It's helped me to kind of get started. Hey, Jay, do me a favor. Can you talk directly into the phone?

I'm kind of deaf. Yes, I'll speak up a little bit louder. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. There you go. Yes. So I will give you all kind of a quick rundown, and I'll try to make this fast.

I got married about seven years ago, and when my wife moved to where I was, we kind of had a little bit of misfortune. I knew she'd make some more money than me, but when she moved, she didn't get a job that maintained that income, and she took a couple offices. And during that time, I was covering everything. And also, I went from a bachelor with my son to a married man with a father. I got a family of six. And so when she lost her job and, you know,

maybe switched to a job that wasn't making as much, I still was trying to cover everything, make sure my family didn't have to be. So I kind of made some bad choices, some desperate choices, and it put me in a bad position to where we got to arguing over money. My family members have done Dave Ramsey, and I was trying to get into that as well. But when you're doing Dave Ramsey and your significant others not doing it, it still makes it for a battle.

And I was just going, while I'm trying to, I'm already a cheap and frivolous guy, like I'm cheap, cheap, cheap. But when I'm trying to be cheap, cheap, cheap and do this, and then I have. Right, and she's not doing it with you. Yeah. So how can we help today, Jay? What's the big problem? I mean, besides obviously if you guys aren't working out together, but you trying to do this plan

to get out of debt? Well, I'm doing the plan myself because that's where I'm going through the separation. Oh, sorry. Oh, it's no problem. So I'm trying to handle all my bad choices that I made in by myself.

And I'm okay with that. But the thing is, I only make, before taxes, I think it's like four or five. By the time all my deductions come out, I'm barely seeing 18. I got $1,150 in deals just renting electric water phone, having to add in groceries. What do you do for a living, Jay? I'm in the education. I teach.

Okay. And how much are you making a year, did you say? Before taxes, before all my deductions and insurance stuff comes out, I make, like, my checkbook today says $4,592. By the time it hits my account, it's $1,700. What are they deducting out? Yeah, what's going on? Did you get a big tax refund back in April?

No, no, no, I do not. Let me tell you, I'm looking at the checks up right now, and I have, I have, um, oh man, I have insurance coming out. I have Medicare coming out. I have social security coming out. I have retirement coming out. I have a business plan coming out and on somebody's business on the insurance, it's for me and my daughter. Um, it's for me and my daughter. And then I also have a disability,

a life insurance policy, and a life insurance policy on my, you know, nothing major on my baby. We're just going to get some happiness. I can still bear it. And of course, I'm not wishing that on anything. But hold on. It feels like it's... Okay, okay.

So what I want you to do, add for the insurance, is this a whole life? $266, $256, $167, $284, $207, $256, $41, $45, $90. Okay, so what I want you to do, add for the insurance, is this a whole life policy or a term life? The life insurance. Yeah, I'm going to go back and read. Okay, because if it's whole life, it's going to be pretty expensive. So how much are you paying in life insurance a month? Let me see.

One is a month. One for the baby girl, it is $27. For mine, I want to say it is, let me see here, retirement is, I want to, I can't No it's okay Because they're all Through American Fidelity Yeah okay So what I want you to do Jay So a couple of things Number one

She does not need life insurance So you got sold Some grubber Whole life Kid whole life The reason you need Life insurance Is if someone

Is dependent upon Your income And as To a T Dollar wise Of you needing Every single penny We need to cut out

Things that are going out that are that you just don't need necessarily right so that 27 for her i would drop that policy today uh if you have a whole life policy i want you to look into that because it can be very expensive month to month and see if you can switch to a term life which is going to be a probably a fourth of the price so that's a possibly some savings there. Stop retirement. I want you to pause retirement, Jay. That'll be money back in. Even things like vision insurance,

like even our company, we don't cover it. And you could pay out of pocket if you needed to, unless you guys have some kind of situation that you absolutely needed it. But that's money being saved for right now. So those are a couple of places paycheck-wise that I want you to look at. And then I also do wanna make sure that you're not getting more taken out,

that if you're getting a big refund, that there's some withholdings there that possibly you could adjust. So again, it's digging into some of those numbers and looking, because going from $4,500 a month to $1,700 a month, something's off there. And they may not let you not do retirement. Sometimes teacher programs don't let you opt out. They won't let me.

If it's like a pension kind of thing. Yeah, if you're in Tennessee pension. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, if you're in some sort of teacher retirement program, they may not let you opt out. What's your all-in total for how much you owe?

Student loans, all-in total, $10,000 for, see, around about, I'm getting right under $100,000. So here's the... Student loans, credit card, and some loans. This is me talking to you as a former educator. I was a high school teacher. I've taught elementary school. I taught college. I love teachers, and I'm in your world, okay?

Yes, sir. And you're in my neighborhood. Like we live in the same town, okay? What you have is not a passion problem. You don't have a heart problem. You have a math problem. And you don't make enough money doing the thing that you love that I probably believe you were put on earth to do,

which is to serve your local community and love those students and teach them. And I think you're either going to have to do one of two things. Do that job and immediately get off of work and go get a second job and say, for the next 18 months, I'm going to not see my daughter very much, which breaks my heart for you, but it might be where you're at or you're gonna have to really start looking at getting another job where you can double or triple your income and luckily you're in nashville where there's a lot of people needing work um but that means you have to walk

away from the job that you hold dear but you got a math problem and you you can't get ahead making you couldn't get ahead making four4,000 much less only bringing home 1,700 bucks a month. Because at that point you can't even eat. That's right. He's like after my bill, after my rent and everything. So yeah, you do have to make a drastic change, which again, changing jobs and changing housing, I think are the two biggest changes people make. Massive.

That it's hard, right? So we're asking you to do one of those. So we don't say that lightly and John doesn't say that lightly. But to his point, you have to be able to support your daughter and you want to be able to get out of this. So whether that is changing your full-time career possibly

or just adding on. Getting a second job. Yep. And Jay, hang on the line here. I'm going to give you a free coaching session with one of our Ramsey financial coaches. And they're here in Nashville, here in Franklin, right down the street from Nashville. But they can go through some of these budget numbers because somewhere down the line, you're getting taken to the cleaners. You're taking way too much out of your check. Yeah, have somebody look at that. But I want someone to sit

down with you on your budget personal and we'll pay for it. So hang on the line here. Absolutely. All right. But we believe in you, brother. Absolutely. If you guys are listening on radio, stick around. The next hour is coming up. But if you are on podcast or YouTube,

go over to the Ramsey Network app. You can download it for free to get the last hour there. So just go to the Apple Store, Google Play, wherever you have your apps, and search the Ramsey Network app. Thanks, everyone in the booth. Thanks, John, for a great hour, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we are taking your calls anywhere in the country. Give us a call at 825-5225. We'll be talking about your money, your life, your relationships, your career, anything and everything. So give us a call. First up, we have Moses in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Moses, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you?

How are you? We're doing great. How can we help? Yeah, straight to the point. I have quite a bit of debt. I'm trying to figure out how to navigate. Got the whole auto loan. That's like $27,000, $30,000 of student loans,

close to $20,000 in collections, credit cards. There's different categories, and I'm trying to figure out. I'm just coming off of a layoff as well. Oh, no. Do you have another job now, or are you still looking for work? I have a temporary thing. I'm not entirely sure if they're going to extend it at the moment, but it means bringing in about $3,000 a month.

What's your total debt? Yeah. So I would say about close to 70,000. Okay. Yeah. I know this isn't long-term, but you're going to have to just for a season. And by the way, did you get laid off or did you quit? What happened?

No, I got laid off. So I work in IT. Okay. It's not for everybody, but the data tells us that getting laid off, losing a job in your body can feel like the loss of a loved one. It's pretty heavy. Yep. There's going to be an important season for you to grieve, to figure out what happened, what do we need to do moving forward, all those questions. But right now, you've got to go get second and third and fourth jobs yeah um you got uh work

to do yeah this car um moses what could you sell it for have you looked up on kelly blue book what it's worth um i could probably do about 20 about 20 000 for sure 20 000 so you're underwater seven yeah um yeah i mean i'm trying i'm trying to think where you can relieve a little bit of this with some big decisions right the car is usually a great one to look at but uh in that case at the moment oh yeah no no i'm not saying, I'm just saying just stuff around because, you know, with the credit card debt, everything, right? So where you can get your hands on selling something. And usually a car is a big asset that you can make some headway with.

But at this point, if you're only going to get $24, it may not be worth it. So, yeah, I mean, I i think moses this is a situation where it is you know money flows two ways it flows in and it flows out and the income is is a big part of it for you right now to up that income and that's going to be um the job finding extra work finding some side hustles and then looking to see what you can cut have you done a really detailed monthly budget um i'm working on it now okay yeah yeah because even within that i think i think you'll be surprised of how much money you're realizing oh my gosh going out to eat or this or that or just seeing money leave your account

through subscriptions i mean there are things that go on that you think oh my gosh and you start cutting some of that you know i've walked through people's budgets recently and stuff that you can find that are and you start Cutting some of that you know I've walked through People's budgets recently and stuff That you can find that are truly not Just food shelter utilities and transportation I mean it is the extras of life And people finding five Six hundred dollars a month just from that

Stuff so that's I hope that's encouraging For you to go and make some of those big cuts but yeah I mean Moses it'll be it'll be Sitting down and calling those Calling the collections have you been in touch with the cards that went into collections? Yes, I have. Okay. Will they negotiate at all?

Have you asked? Yeah, I saw one that sent me something. Yeah. I'm going to look at that as well. Do you have any money saved, any cash? No, not really, no. Okay. So I would split up? Not really, no. Okay. So I would split up.

I got laid off. Yeah. I got laid off like January. So I just found the new gig that I have now. Moses, what have you been doing, brother? Well, I mean, I've been doing like small jobs all summer long and whatnot since I got laid off. I'm telling you this because I love you. That has to stop.

Yeah. Okay. And again, besides the money, I want you to get your agency back. I want you to get some swagger back. Right. And right now it's just been spiraling. You're like a record player, right? It spirals and spirals and spirals and spirals.

Yeah. And so you have to like hope is is um as nick cave recently wrote hope is not neutral it's something you scratch and claw and go get and so like when we get off this phone call i want you literally to call walmart and see if they have any like stocking jobs for 18 bucks an hour from 5 p.m. until 11 p.m. or from 7 p.m. until 2 a.m. And I want you to find another job, work in the morning, breakfast shift at a local coffee shop. I just want you to go get yourself real, real busy and go make a bunch of money. Yeah. And with that, when you're doing all of that, Moses, and you're putting some of that

money aside, I mean, I would split up these cards that are in collections because it's probably multiple accounts and contact them and say, you know, if it's a $3,000 bill, say, hey, I have 1100 right here. I can pay you today and we can clear this, right? And you can get it in writing and keep going. So, I mean, I would work this stuff down.

And again, I mentioned the car at the beginning of this, but I mean, look and see, golly, could I get a $5,000 car and, you know, take out a small loan? It's better than 20,000, right? With 12 or whatever it is. But making some moves like that, it's going to be a different pace of life for you. But I really believe that you can do this. I mean, yeah, the 70K, we've seen people with a lot worse debt on this show.

But the reason that they get out is that they decide that I'm going to have to do this. My life is not going to be a life for probably two to three years. I mean, everything I have in me is going to be going towards this. And that's going to change you most. I think it's going to give you the confidence, like what John is saying. There's something about winning in an area that you haven't won in that's actually going to probably help motivate you more in this when you start getting those quick wins. Does the world feel heavy on you?

It does. It's been quite a year. So I'm going to tell you something that if you scroll Instagram, they're going to tell you it's crazy, but I'm going to tell you this because it works and it's right. Okay. Like the world's beat you up this year. And I'm guessing if you and I sat down over a plate of nachos,

it's been a pretty rough year. You started the year getting laid off and it's just kind of been one thing after the other, after the other. You and I can both agree that the path that you've taken this year hasn't worked. Is that fair? That's fair. All right. So here's what I want you to do.

I want you to fake it. I don't want you to pretend for the next 60 days that you're a guy with three jobs. And you're not going to feel like it, and you're not going to want to, and you're not going to think you can, but you're going to pretend that you're a guy that has three jobs,

and that just goes to three jobs every day. And I can almost guarantee you that after 60 days, you're going to have dropped down to two jobs because three is too many to do for too long, but you're going to walk taller and you'll start talking to people about it jobs because that's your skillset. And that's where you are. And you'll make way more money doing that than throwing boxes and you're get your whole psychology and physiology will change because you'll start believing in you again just like me and rachel believe in yeah absolutely moses hold on the line and christian's going to pick up and we'll give you financial peace university which is our nine lesson course to kind of get you started a baseline of just that education and then the every dollar app the premium version to really start this monthly budget and get you going.

So we're rooting for you, Moses. Thanks for the call. Well, if you have dreams and you have goals, you have to keep them organized to actually see them come to fruition. So we're excited to announce that we have the new 2025 Ramsey Goal Planner, and it's officially on presale. And this will be the best price that we have for $35.97. And that presale will end September 2nd.

So and the price will go up about $12. So this is the best price for the planner. And I have some content in there. So does John and jade jade warshaw and so yeah this is a planner that has a lot in it you all there's there's a lot there you will get your money's worth for sure so go to ramsey solutions.com store or click the link in the description if you're listening on youtube or podcasts because it sells out every year. So make sure you get it and the best price again is now. All right, up next we have John in Los

Angeles. Hey, John, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? Yeah, I've just started a new job and am looking to sign up for their benefits and health insurance. And I'm wondering what plan is best for me and my wife. She's currently on her parents' plan. And I'm trying to figure out if the PPO or the high deductible plan makes the most sense for us. And so I just want some help figuring that out. Okay. Yeah.

What's your health history? Are you guys pretty healthy people in general? Yeah, pretty healthy. I mean, she's definitely had some bumps and bruises, um, but most of them healthy. I mean, it's pretty easy to stay out of the doctor's office, but I mean, the main concern would be, um, you know, if something comes up or if she is pregnant, um, how the high deductible plan would, would play out. If it'd be better for us to be on the PPO, um, or if the high deductible plan makes the most sense yeah because you guys are looking to possibly start a family

yeah yeah yeah within the next couple years yeah with the ppo you'll usually have lower monthly premiums higher deductible so i think it's kind of where you guys are at from a financial aspect if you're able to cash flow um out of pockets, it's going to probably be better for you. That's what we have personally at our house. But if you guys are more strapped financially, then a high deductible plan might be the better route. So where are you guys financially, just debt-wise, savings, all that? Yeah, no debt. And then including our emergency fund, we have about $90,000. Oh, wow. Okay.

Nine zero? Nine zero. Oh, yeah. Good for you guys. That's great. Thank you. Yeah. So I'm just doing the math on it. The PPO is $325 a month and the high deductible is $75.

The deductible and the out-of-pocket max are only $1,000 different. And my employer matches on the high deductible HSA. So it seems like pretty straightforward that the high deductible would make sense. Here's one phone call I would make. I would call, because you can call the high deductible and say, what is the cash out-of-pocket for childbirth? And most of them have a number. like like absent complications or emergency surgeries things like that they'll tell you on this plan it costs $3,500 or $7,500 they'll just they'll just it's just a math problem and then you can make that call for yourself yeah and with the high deductible plan through your work there is access to an HSA because some

don't provide access. You can get that too. Because the HSA is a great benefit too, to look into that. Yeah. And max that out. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, if you're running the numbers. After 1800. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. In your scenario, in the high deductible plan is what's coming out. That's a no brainer. You get $90,000 in the bank.

I would take the high deductible because you're going to be able to walk in and write the check for $7,500 if there's something really awful that happens. And I would sit down and get that cash number on a childbirth. Yeah, because that's going to be your next large expense medically. Yep, that's great. Thanks, John. Up next, we have Josephine in Anchorage, Alaska. Hey, Josephine, welcome to the

show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? I'm calling for some advice on whether or not I should take a job that is 50, it would be a $50,000 pay cut. Okay, so what's going on? Tell me the job you're in now and what's what's making you want to change? Yeah so I currently in a um I'm an operations technician sorry I work I work one week on one week off and they require us to swap from day shift to night shift every week. And I've been in the position for 11 years. I don't mind the job, but I feel over the past year or so, I've just kind of, I don't know, ready for a different opportunity, I guess. And I was offered a different opportunity, but I just wasn't expecting it to be such quite a big pay cut.

Yeah, for sure. Is the new opportunity as exciting to you? Is it, and besides just the change, I can hear you're kind of in a rut, but are you going to be doing something specific in that job that's more fulfilling to you? I think it's more just learning a different area because I've been working on the pipeline.

So I've been in one specific area for quite a while and I would like to go and venture off. You know, so that's that part is definitely exciting. Yeah. And then just of did this job find you or did you find it? So I applied for a different position and they did not pick me and then they they basically offered me this one so and what are you going from what what are you getting paid now to what would that be um so I make 200 and it would be they offered me 150 okay and is the schedule better Like, is it a better lifestyle? It's definitely better.

It is? It's day shift only, so I never have to work nights again. That's a big one. Yeah. And it doesn't require any manual labor, which I do a lot of in the winter. Okay. Josephine, I would do this today. Oh, really?

Yeah. Okay. And here's I would do this today. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. And here's where I'm coming from. There's two things. Whenever somebody calls me or they call my show and they're asking, like, should I break up with somebody or not? Sometimes I'll just hit one side of the teeter-totter to see their response. And I just did that. Just quit and take this job you want

and get the life that you want. And your response was, really? What? Okay. You know what I mean? And so there's more to your life than just a dollar amount. Do you owe any money? No, my husband and I, we have a mortgage.

Okay, besides that be will this affect your ability to live the life that you want or will it give you your life back i think it would give me a little more honestly i'm telling you um my wife if she came to me and said hey um i make two hundred thousand dollars i I make $200,000 so this whole conversation is different if you make $75,000 and you want to drop down to $25,000 and you can't pay your bills right you want to go from making a jillion dollars

to a whole bunch of dollars right so at $150,000 nobody's starving in fact y'all are doing quite well not including your husband's salary so if my wife came to me and said, hey, you're going to get your wife back, I would say you put all the money on the table because I miss you. You know what I'm saying? Right.

Does that sound right? Yes. My husband's very supportive of that as well. Listen to him, man. Listen to him. Yeah. Yeah, your quality of life changes. And is there an upward trajectory in the position you're in? Like, could you still have the daytime hours and all of that three years from now, but possibly getting paid more? Because usually in those kind of jobs,

it's not that you're going to be stuck at this forever and ever. It may take you a few years to get back to where you were, but is there a way to do that financially? For, from my understanding, they do have, um, if you perform well,

they'll give you raises. And then the company does do annual raises as well. Usually. Yeah. So yeah, you won't be cut 50, you know, 50,000 at the end of the day.

It may look like, you know, yeah. But was the job won't be cut 50,000 at the end of the day. It may look like, you know. Yeah, but was the job you applied for, what was it paying out at? It didn't state. It was in a band. So it's all up in, they don't really, I think it just depends on, HR has a structure.

Okay. Here's my guess. Here's my guess. You weren't the right fit for that particular job, but they saw something in you and they wanted you on their team. And I love to go somewhere where they want me. And if another position opens up in another band, you're going to be their go-to. So I say jump with both feet. Do it, Josephine. Do it.

Thanks for the call. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Home ownership is something that we believe should be part of your financial plan, but it's really hard these days. The price of houses and the housing market is absolutely insane. But when you do it the right way, when you buy a home the right way, it brings you peace. It's not a burden. It is a blessing. And so if you are looking to sell your home or purchase a home the right way, the way we teach, you want to make sure to check out some top agents in your area that we trust.

These are Ramsey trusted agents. They have years of experience that will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer for your home. So to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free, go to ramseysolutions.com agent and check them out. All right, up next, we have Scott in Pittsburgh. Hey, Scott, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my call. Absolutely, how can we help?

Yeah, I've loaned $80,000 to my cousin for his house flipping business through multiple notarized promissory notes over the last four years. I've received that $80,000 back, but none of the $45,000 in interest. My cousin recently informed me that his business is in trouble. He lives four hours away, has four kids, a rocky marriage, and other debt. So he's not rich, to say the least. He now won't return any of my calls or texts. And I sought some legal counsel. And all of the notes have a confession of judgment clause,

so legally we're good even to not go to court to get a judgment, so that's in my favor. That side of the family has a lot of crazy in it to the extent that one individual is a little crazy, a little dangerous to be around. Personally, my wife and I are in baby step seven. We have four kids, two high-stress jobs, and extremely active social life in our church. So part of me says, just let this go and go focus on your life. But another part of me says, go get the money that you've earned in interest,

especially since he won't call you back. I feel like I've let my wife down on this decision, even though we haven't really lost any money. So I'm just wondering, what path should I go go down and how do I emotionally accept that path? One time, well, I won't tell that story. That's a personal story. Scott, walk away. Walk away. walk away um and i think the the making peace is making peace with yourself because you knew

this was a real possibility before you did this yep and you tried to cover yourself with a bunch of legal paperwork and you had a family member that you probably kind of deep down knew was going to do this looked at you and said i'm not doing that and i don't think you let anybody down and then gets a story you're telling yourself to kind of cover over the fact that you kind of feel like you got what you knew was probably going to happen. And so I'd make peace with it. Don't ever loan family members money again. And let's go on about our life. All right. Thank you. I mean, does that, does that feel right? It does. It's kind of where I thought I was, but the whole, like, just not calling and texting back after like a four year relationship where we had a great back and forth and, you know, money was exchanged both ways and things felt very comfortable. And then, you know, all of a sudden it was just like, okay, it's, it's gone.

But that means you're going to try to go get your interest because you're mad. Don't do that. Yeah. Don't do that. Yeah. Don't do that. Yeah. And it's one of those things, not to say told you so, but we always tell people, even if you got it and even if you're close, don't borrow money because it changes the relationship. And now there's something wedged between you and it's shame. And it's really hard to overcome. And so even if you send them a handwritten letter that just say your debt's forgiven, I wish you the best and go on about your life. Yeah. I know. And the story I'm playing in my head,

Scott, it could be wrong is he's probably panicking, right? I mean, he, he has four kids. Yeah. I mean,

he's, he's, he's fearful. I mean, he, his fear, you know, radar is up all the way and he probably can't even emotionally.

And the fact, you know, go go there the fact that your family too that adds a whole other dynamic or the one guy he went to for help he can't even do that anymore because he's there's 45 000 bucks between the two of you yeah and i and i know there's probably some justice in you scott even the way you laid out the question you're mad yeah i can tell that you're, yeah, you're pissed. You're like, man, this isn't fair, right? Fair would be, I'm owed this money and why am I not getting it, right? But I think John's right. I think there is a kind of a humble pill to swallow to say, okay, I want to move along with my life because you can, right? Financially speaking, you guys aren't on Baby Step 7, you're fine. Is this the quote-unquote justice play? It's not. The justice play would be to take him to court and continue to wring out the money that he doesn't have and take his

family through. I mean, and you could, but you would definitely for sure lose that relationship. And in the end, I don't know if that's worth $45,000 of your time and your energy and your mental capacity. Yeah, agreed. I would say we didn't have a whole lot of relationship even, you know, even before that. Considering, like, we were just four hours away. Not, you know, a strong relationship. But it's just a strange situation because of how great things were going for four years and even talking together about projects that he was working on. And then it's just like all gone.

Do you know what happened to his business? I'm just curious if he just did bad deals or what. Same story that Dave always talks to, right? He had a partner. The partner skipped town. The whole business was on him and he couldn't keep the whole business afloat. So, um, you know, went from being very profitable, um, over four years to, you know, taking a step back over the last like 18 months or so. Yeah. Yeah. Send him, send him a letter that just says, Hey brother,

you're freed. I'm tearing up the promissory notes and i wish you the best all right and i think i think you'll feel a weight off your shoulders and by the way next time you'll you'll feel you'll feel that sense of injustice and it's right um so you're not crazy there's nothing wrong with you whatever like you'll get that little angry moments every now and then but you got your money back count your your blessings. Yeah. And yeah, let's walk away. So sorry. All right, John, I'm going to take a question from the Ramsey Network app. Those of you that are listening and this question is one, again, when you do this, you don't have to call in.

You just click the link in the show notes and download the app for free, which you guys have done because you're listening there. But this question is, I determined my why statement is to help people heal so that they can be free. And this has become a motivation for a career change to become a mental health counselor. That would mean adding $40,000 to my current undergrad debt of $40,000. So the original was $110,000. What is your recommendation for funding a master's in mental health counseling? Oh, man.

Mental health professionals sitting to my right. Yeah. I guess they'll teach you in counseling. One of the core tenets is you can't give what you don't have. So if your heart is to help people heal so that they may be free, and in order to do that, you chain yourself to a student loan company for another 5 or 10 or 15 years, you're going to end up robbing Peter to pay Paul.

And so I'm going to tell you, you can help people heal in your job as a school teacher. You can help people heal in your job as a, I'll tell you this. I got to my hotel last night. I was in Pittsburgh. I got to my hotel really, really late. And the woman checking us in was a saint, just one of those people that you're around and your heart rate just goes down and she was so kind and i was a she was a gift she was a cup of cold water in the desert is after just a long long day yeah and so you can help people heal on the job site when y'all are pouring concrete so this idea that you have to be a licensed mental health professional and you have to go into forty thousand dollars of student loan debt on top of the 40 you already have out there. That's just unwise.

And I had a graduate advisor that says, if you are sitting in a clinical chair and you don't know how you're going to pay your bills, you cannot sit across from somebody and say, I can help you because you're not whole. So what does that mean? That means get this 40 grand paid off as soon as possible. See if you can find some side work working in or around counseling offices or social work offices or in children's homes or in boys ranches or things like that, where you can work with people, make sure this is what you want to do and then get a job at a

local university as a housing director or something, and they will pay for your graduate degree. But don't add, don't double your debt load in order to do this one particular job when you can help people heal in a number of different capacities. Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 65, 24. Before they call, I will answer. While they are still speaking, I will hear. Bill Murray said, people are like music. Some people, sorry, some speak the truth and others are just noise. National treasure, Bill Murray.

Music. I'd say most is noise in my ears, I'll be honest. It is. Except for Morgan Wallen. You can see Rachel dancing to Morgan Wallen out in the parking lot. Genuinely, I don't even know if I know any of his songs. Yeah, right. I saw a text she sent to Winston the other day that said, please, girl, mullet.

Love, Rachel. What? Is that one of his songs? No, that's just how Morgan... You know how he grows his hair rachel loves i'm being honest i i'm not in the in with music and the music y'all listen to here on this show all the guys in the back it's like screaming music and you're like you don't know what they're saying anyways let's go to the calls this is why she drinks america let's go to roanoke virginia and

talk to cameron we got cameron on the line hi cameron welcome to the show hey nice to meet you guys absolutely how can we help so i own two homes um one of which is actually paid off. I was able to pay it off fully because my dad had passed away, so I got some inheritance money, and then I own another home in which I took out a mortgage on that. But that home, about six months ago, I moved in a guy, and he was going to help me pay rent, and I was nice enough to only charge him like 400 grand. And he convinced me to quit my job.

He said we could go and get another job at like a temp service. So I said, OK. And, you know, since then, I just convinced you to quit your job. Yeah, it was a stupid thing on my part. You know, I completely agree. But since then, you know, he kind of used me. I mean, the entire time, you know, he was almost acting like it was his home. You know, he knew I was struggling.

He wasn't wanting to pay me any more, help out any more, you know. And I ended up, I was struggling so badly that i ended up having to move back in my mom i just moved back in wait i'm so i'm confused don't you have a paid for house cameron yeah but i got a guy living in that house too and he's not paying me any money at all either so why are you letting the whole world run over you yeah what's going on well i i didn't have a lease for either two of them why they were friends of mine and i met them at work and you know i was trying to help them out okay give them 30 day eviction notices yeah they have to be out see i did with uh the the first guy and now he's moving out but the problem is is that uh the guy that's

living in my house that i have a mortgage on he's telling me that he ain't gonna move out at all until he sees it's not his house his house his name is not on the deed yeah and that's and that's what everyone's telling me but the thing is is that my grandmother and my aunt she's supposed to move in both of them are supposed to move in and he's trying to tell them that they can't move it that was the whole ordeal of that cameron cameron give him in writing 30 day notice to vacate and the sheriff will show up and evict him yeah and i called the the sheriffs of charlotte michigan because that's where my house is located and they And they said the exact same thing,

but they said it could take up to like three months. Then give them the notice today. But the thing is, I'm already like six months behind on my mortgage. So I'm afraid that I could lose... Okay, you need to sell this house. Sell the house today. Call a realtor. You got to sell the house.

You can't afford the house. Yeah. How much did you buy it for 140 000 okay and what could you sell it for today what's it worth my realtor thinks that i couldn't sell it anything over 140 000 and he thinks it would be kind of hard to sell it for even just $140,000. Why? He thinks I'll probably have to do a short sale if I were to sell the house. Because you're behind on your mortgages. Yeah. And then it also makes it harder to sell the house when I'm in Virginia right now. What caused you to buy a house in Michigan?

Well, I was originally living in Michigan, but once all this happened, I couldn't afford anything. I mean, I was paying $1,000, not only in, or $1,400, not only in my house, but I was paying like $1,000 in bills alone. So I was paying almost $2,400 a month, not even including food. So I just couldn't afford it anymore. I had to move back in. Okay. Where's the house that's paid for? Michigan also.

And you're not in Michigan. You need to sell both houses. Sell both of your homes. Yeah. You got to get out of this stuff, Cameron. And a good realtor can sell the house without you being there. But you have to give the tenant a notice to vacate because he's going to trash the house so it can't be sold. And like, like here's the deal. You've been waiting for like six months for something to happen. If you'd given him a notice to vacate six months ago, he'd already

be gone three months ago. Well, around that time he was still, he was paying me. It was just the other guy that wasn't paying me, but he was only paying me $400 a month. Let's simplify your life. Tell everybody I'm putting the house up for sale. You have 30 days to vacate. The houses go up for sale. Put it in writing and send a registered letter to each of them. And send an email to them too. Do you think it would be better just to sell one of the homes?

No, sell them both because you're not in Michigan. You don't live there. You don't live there. you don't want to be a long a long distance landlord because this is what's going to happen because of this and then in and then in roanoke how much can you sell your first house for um around maybe 113 000 okay so then i would use that for a down payment on a house in roanoke if you're going to be in Roanoke for you know the next four five six seven years and if you have aunts and uncles and grandparents whatever that thought they're moving to this other house tell them I'm not I'm gonna have to sell the house you can't afford it and if they want to buy it great but you can't afford this home you have you have to traffic in reality Cameron

about to be 22 okay yeah so this is a it's this is a hard lesson. I'm glad you're learning it at 22, honestly, because there's a lot of lessons in here. Number one is, and for people listening and watching, this is true. The idea that, well, you can just make passive income with having a house that I have multiple, you know, I rent out and get a mortgage out to do the whole real estate game. When the renter doesn't pay, the mortgage is in your name, which is exactly what Cameron's experiencing. So this whole idea of like passive income, go get a bunch of houses with mortgages and have renters in them, it's great.

It turns into a nightmare like this. So that's lesson number one. Number two, if you ever do a deal with somebody where they're living in your house, you have to have a written lease. So it's your mom, friend, brother, everybody. How good of a friend, a relative, I don't care who it is. There is a written lease that is very, very specific to the terms you all sign and you charge market rent too. When you're in the real estate game, I mean, if you want to be kind, if there's a situation and you choose then to say it's going to be lower,

but you're not a bad person. You're charging this guy $400 a month for rent. And you see the kind of character he is he is laughing at you so you know like this is this is stuff that you're you're gonna have to um really take away from the situation camera because i think there are a lot of good lessons and and you know you want to you know i think honor your dad's legacy really well in all of this and i think you can I think you're gonna lose some money in the process possibly because there may have to be a short sale I mean six months back of mortgage payments I mean yeah you're not in a good spot and you quit your job right do you have an income coming in at all right now well I just got to Virginia not too long ago

and I started a new job okay good I haven't got a paycheck yet. Okay, okay. But you're working, so that's good. And you're just renting right now? No, I'm, well, I guess technically I'm living with my mom. I'm going to be paying her 400. Okay, okay. Well, I would clean up the stuff in Michigan and I would be, yep, getting a realtor. If you go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate, there you can get connected with a Ramsey Trusted Agents. And we have ones all over the country. And you can pick the one that you feel comfortable with, but get somebody a high caliber,

not some realtor that's like, well, I don't know, maybe 40,000. You might be, I mean, find somebody that's going to say, yeah, let's get this going and let's sell this house. And so you want somebody that's going to be aggressive in this situation because you need these houses out of your life, Cameron. You need these renters out of your life. That too.

Tenants out of your life too. Yep. Thanks for the call, Cameron. I hope we were helpful. I hope we were helpful, but you got a lot to learn. I'm glad you're 22. You learned a lot of lessons, a lot of lessons in that. Thanks, John, for a great hour.

Thanks to everyone in the booth. And thank you, America. And remember to take control of your money and create a life you love. Thank you.