The Ramsey Show - App - 5 Biblical Financial Principals (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 22, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Broad broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 you jump in

we'll talk about your life and your money dallas starts off this hour in arizona hi dallas how are you hey dave how you doing better than i deserve's up? Good. So I'm calling for a little bit of advice, kind of tell you my game plan and my situation. So I'm 29. I've been a police officer in Arizona. I'm a police officer in Phoenix for about four years now. I have money in my 401A and my pension. Anyways, my wife and I, I were having another baby in March. We do have debt.

I just got out of my ridiculous payments on my vehicles. I had to pay money to get out of them. But I bought a clunker, like a Chevy Impala, and I got my wife a van. Overall, we have about $43,000 in debt. That's about $19,000 of her school. I married into it. About $11,000 in credit card debt and then the remainder in the minivan that we have. My question is, so I'm thinking about going to the reserve side for the city of Phoenix as a police officer. Reserve side as a volunteer you're not paid um the only reason why i would do that is because the only reason why i do that is because i would still um keep my certification as an officer in arizona but i can

work um 1099 gigs doing off duty as an off-duty officer, making anywhere between $40 to $75 an hour, and it's unlimited. This work is nonstop. So my question to you is, we're in Baby Step 2, and I'm attacking my debt right now, and I'm trying to get out of it. What do you make as a police officer? Yearly right now, like $28 an hour, so I think like $62 a year. About $62 a year, is that what you said? Yeah. Okay, all right.

Now, if you're on reserve, later can you come back off of reserve and go back to full-time, if that's your goal? I can. Okay. And if you're working as a policeman full-time, how many hours a week do you work now? With the City of Phoenix, 40, and then I try to do off-duty as much as I can. But my wife's a nurse part-time, so it takes away from me making more money. Mm-hmm. Your wife is a nurse part-time, and that takes – well, you have to watch the kids?

Yeah, we have a baby and then another one in March coming. Yeah, I heard the March. Okay. All right. So if you go to reserves, you'll make more in the hours you would have been working as a policeman. I get that. You're also losing all your benefits, and you're going to have to pay another 8% in taxes, 7.65% in taxes on that 1099 income because you get self-employed both sides of FICA.

Here's the thing. If you're working 40 now, how much can you add to that with side work? How many hours can you work with the baby and with your wife working and all that? An extra 20 hours with my wife. Okay, and so the only difference is you'd still be working 60 on reserve, but you'd be doing it all on 1099 and you'd make more per hour. Well, I can work probably a lot more. Why? If you can work a lot more,

you can work more now. Yeah. I mean, you've only got a certain number of hours. If you can work 60 now, and that's all you can work because of the baby and the pregnant wife, why can you work more than 60 if you go on reserve?

I can work more when I go on reserve. More than 60? I will. I've done some suicide things. I've done. What I'm saying, sir, is that if you can work more than 60 when you're on reserve, you can work more than 60 now. It's the same number of hours. If you can work 70 on reserve, you can work 60 now. It's the same number of hours.

If you can work 70 on reserve, you can work 70 now, 30 plus your 40 as a regular policeman, right? Yeah. That's the only way to compare this mathematically. Reserve does not give you more hours other than the 40 you're working now. Does that make sense? Yes, it does okay so what you need to you and your wife need to determine is how many hours you guys can work you can work uh because you make really good money on this side gig and i no i would not pull back because i think what's

going to happen is you're going to turn around as soon as you get this mess cleaned up you're going to turn around and come right back into the police force, and your gain on this is not going to be that substantial. I would rather you stay on the police force and keep your position there, keep everything solid and going, and then let's just add as much side gig at as much per hour as you can figure out and still keep your family together for a short period of time. You do have a pregnant wife and you have a baby. These are two things you need to pay attention to at home as well. But if you can stay at the 60 or 70 hour mark and those other 20 or 30 hours be at $50 to $75 an hour,

you're going to clean this up really, really fast. The good news is you're on point, you're paying attention, you're being very intentional, and you're not afraid of hard work and not afraid of a lot of work. And so you can do a lot of stuff if you've got those two things. If you have a set of goals with very intentional movement with the goals and you're not afraid of busting it to make it happen, you're going to be fine. The number of – you might get out of debt one month to make it happen you're going to be fine the the the number of you might

get out of debt one month sooner doing it your way might get out of debt two months sooner but not three not with forty three thousand dollars in debt not with what you make and she's a nurse so you're going to be just fine take as much extra at the highest possible hourly as you can get your hands on and not be completely abandoning your family for a short period of time and you're going to knock 43 000 out and you're going to be just fine you're gonna be just fine and and thank you for what you do for that community all right john is with us in north carolina hey john how are you? I'm doing fine. Good. How can I help? I'm a little nervous. I'm good, man. I think I just need some encouragement.

Okay. I was listening to one of your old podcasts, and a man called in, and his wife and him, I guess they were more on board than I feel like my wife is. I don't know if she's on the fence with it, but he sold his truck and his whole gun and knife collection and everything, and I started feeling bad because I got a truck that's about $30,000 truck. I owe on it. That's about a $550 payment, and she has an old Subaru car that's about a $200 payment for it.

Okay, so I didn't know. I mean, I didn't know if I should just sell both cars and just get one vehicle for her, like a family vehicle, temporarily to get it going. What's your household income, sir? Right now, I make about $120 a year. Well, that's good news. Okay. How much other debt have you guys got?

I got $09 on her car. I'll tell you what. Hold on. We'll come back from this commercial. We'll get a good, solid answer. We'll lay all this out, and I'll make sure I give you on her car. I'll tell you what. Hold on. We come back from this commercial. We'll get a good, solid answer. We'll lay all this out, and I'll make sure I give you a proper answer. Hang with me for a second. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down?

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It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years. And our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. All right, back to John in North Carolina. He owes $30,000 on his truck, $9,000 on his wife's Subaru, makes $150,000.

His wife and him aren't exactly on the same page, but he's thinking how can he best serve his family considering maybe selling the truck. And that's about how far we got in the discussion. Right, John? Yeah. Okay. I was just looking at all my notes here. My buddy's yelling at me.

I'm supposed to be in the truck. But I got time. I got $11,500 in credit cards, two different credit cards. When I started you back in May, I think we had like 12 credit cards. So you have $11,500 in credit card debt. What other debt have you got? I got a house I just refinanced. Other than the house and the two cars and the credit cards, what have you got? That's it.

Okay. All right. And so what would be wrong with you and your wife sitting down and saying, we're going to live on a written plan with our great income of $150,000, and we're going to plow through $50,000 worth of debt in the next year to 18 months? That is the plan, but she's just kind of discouraged she just started a job she what i don't know all we argue about is uh finances she just started a job next week she's going to be starting the job yeah but why are you what are you arguing about

well i don't know she wants a better vehicle the one she has is damaged. It's got some mechanical issues. Okay. And she's kind of tired of it now. I mean, we've also been doing this six months. We went from eating out every weekend and buying stuff to nothing. Why don't you give her your truck and you drive the Subaru? I have thought about that, too. Just until we keep this going.

But she's scared to drive it. Do what? She says she's scared to drive it. She wrecked my whole trip. Uh-huh. I think, man, I don't see nothing wrong with that. How old are you two? 30 years old.

Okay. All right. Well, I think the thing you've got to do is address this. And it sounds like that she's tired of fighting through this. She's been working on it for six months, and she's using the Subaru as something to whine about. And that's what I do when I get tired. I whine. And so, you know, you could give her your truck.

Why don't you just sit down and say, okay, what's it take to get you going? Because we're not going to go further in that while we're getting out of that. Do I need to sell my truck so I can get you a better car? Or do you want to drive my truck for a little while so you feel good again while we work this out because we can pay all of this off in under two years if we just stay on it and show her the math i also started a second job myself i make about 200 a week and doing flooring and i have a military retirement that i get about a thousand bucks a month doing that yeah so but you've got all of that focused on your every dollar budget and both of you are looking at the budget but she's just tired right yes i believe so and i love her to death i want her to be happy and it's a two-way road i want her to be happy but i don't want to

have to give her stuff for her to be happy that's not the point she just needs to she needs to say out loud what it's going to take for her to take a deep breath and plow through the next 18 months because you'll be free in 18 months if you keep plowing. Now, does she need to drive your truck, or do you need to sell your truck and get her a better car and get you a lesser truck? What do we got to do, honey? Let's talk it through because we got to play through. We got to finish the game.

The game's getting tough right now, and we've got to finish the game. Especially Christmas and wintertime, I'm getting less hours too, so it's getting tight, that's all. Yeah, but you should be able to cover all of that in the budget. You make plenty of money. It shouldn't be tight. It shouldn't be. I agree, man.

If you're doing a written plan with the kind of money you tell me you're making annually, you should not be tight even when things slow down a little bit. It just means you're putting less on the debt is all. But you're still going to have Christmas, and you're still going to have food, and you're still going to have lights and water. Your house payment is still going to be paid. All right, Dan. I guess that's what we'll do.

What about, I got one more quick question. You guys are not sitting down and doing the written budget together every month before the month begins, are you? Well, me and my son do it. She doesn't really want to do it. That's what I mean. My son will do it. He's 10. Your son is not the problem okay the two of you

have to sit down and lay out a game plan that you're both in agreement to no one wants to sacrifice randomly out in space the only reason someone sacrifices is to win and they have to be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel that's not an oncoming train so the fact that she's not plugged into the budget is where her lack of energy is coming from on this and so the two of you have got to sit down together you're never going to win at money until you do that let's try this i'm going to put you both through financial peace university i'm going to pay for it if i give you you the class, you and her both have to go to the class. It's nine weeks long, one night a week. You're both going, and I'll pay for it.

It doesn't cost you a thing. The only thing I have to have from you is a commitment that both of you will attend the class. I'll put you on hold. Kelly will pick up. If you give her that commitment, I will pay for the two of you to go through the class and that'll help get you aligned on this you're going to struggle until you get aligned all right up next is going to be mike in idaho hey mike how are you oh i'm so blessed i should be triplets how about you sir just the same sir what's up uh i got a quick question for you um i help co-lead a small group in our church and we have a topic of finance coming up, and I'm the guy that drinks the Dave Ramsey Kool-Aid, so I've been nominated to talk on it. My question to you is, we only have a week to do the finance part, and I'd like to try and

implement, you know, what you guys teach at FPU, But how would I go about doing that? Obviously, I can't get into all of it in an hour and a half. But what would you suggest on doing? I would not attempt to do Financial Peace University in an hour and a half. That's why it's nine weeks, because I haven't been able to figure out a way to get it done in an hour and a half. So the thing I would do is this um there are principles and from scripture and then there is a process to implement the principles i hope you

got something to write on or just go back later and listen to the podcast all right but there's basically biblical principles of finance okay the first one is get on a budget jesus said don't build a tower without first counting the cost, lest you get halfway up and you're unable to finish, and all who see you begin to mock you and say, this man began to build and was unable to finish. Jesus said, do a plan. The second thing is get out of debt.

The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender, Proverbs 22.7. The third thing is save money. In the house of the wise, Proverbs says, is stores of choice food and oil. The fourth thing is live on less than you make. A foolish man devours all he has, Proverbs says. This is a Bible study I'm giving you, okay? And then number five, be outrageously generous god loves a cheerful giver second corinthians all right that's your five principles now then how do you apply those download the pdf off our website which is the baby

steps and the baby steps are not from the bible they're from dave ramsey there's a lot of difference okay but the baby steps are how okay great i want to get out of debt great i want to get on a budget great i want to save money which one do i do first and then the seven baby steps are how to apply it so you're in a church group that believes in the bible as truth then you can use that as your compass and that that group should be able to use that as their compass those five principles and then the best way we found to apply those five principles is through the seven baby steps. And that's all it is, is the method for applying those things. And, of course, everybody knows those that listens to this show for more than 20 minutes.

So just go to those and download the seven baby steps off our website. It's a little PDF thing. You can get that. And if you didn't get those scriptures, just go back and listen to this on the podcast. They're there. But Proverbs is full of it. The Bible is full of instruction on money. Borrowing money is not a sin, but there's not a single time in Scripture that it's mentioned in a positive light.

100% of the mentions of debt in the Bible are negative. It's not a sin. It's certainly not a salvation issue. But biblically speaking, borrowing money it's in the bible this is the d of Ramsey Solutions, Jason from Minnesota stopped by with a question. Hey, Jason, how are you? Very good, sir. Thank you. Good, good. How can I help, sir? Well, my father-in-law and I actually co-own eight fast casual restaurants together.

And just created for tough family dynamics. And I actually called you back in 2008 prior to getting into all this and you told me not to do it, but here we are. Okay. So eight restaurants deep, intermingled. My question is, do I sell some of the stores to create room from him or do i look at maybe just a refinance we've paid down quite a bit of the debt uh majority is sba loans but um step one is just to get separation uh from him on the business side okay does he want out completely no he would still own four and i would have four so that's been quite a conversation just to get to who owns what as far as where's middle ground okay

and um how much is owed on the package um some real estate involved also but for the four stores i'd be looking at would be around $800. Okay, and does that include real estate? No real estate on my end, but each store would be worth around $500 to $800 apiece. Okay. All right, so you could sell one and have three free and clear? Pretty close. And you wouldn't do that?

Why? Two of them are in the same city, so I would sell them together. One is in our hometown, which I would probably hold on to, and one of them I have actually offered, and it's kind of in some conversation with a manager that's been with me 10 years to possibly buy that one. Well, if he buys that one, why would you not have $800,000 from him? Well, I could. I could.

I just didn't know from kind of a paid for real estate piece. Once I refinance, I feel like I could really reduce the debt load fast. If you guys can split it off and you end up with $800,000 in debt in your name, not his name, is that possible? Yes. Why haven't you already done that? I was trying to come to an agreement as to who owns what stores and with real estate and family that way so you've got the four picked out that you want he doesn't want you to have those four no we've agreed at that now so okay so it's settled then so as far as the refinance separation not done nothing's been separated yet is the concept of the separation all the decisions have been made right yes you've

got four stores he's got four stores. So you're asking me how to separate from him, and yet you've already done it. Well, legally, I'm still on for all eight. I'm still on the hook for all eight. So I didn't know, is my step one to sell a store or is my step one to refinance? If you separated them, why are you on the hook for the other four? We've only separated by checkbooks. I mean, I'm controlling the four checkbooks, but legally, SBA loans,

leases, everything's intermingled. Okay, so you haven't separated then. You still are... Just with checkbooks. Just operationally is all, but not an ownership standpoint. Correct. Okay. And so, how are you going to separate... I mean,

I get how you could pay off $800 by selling one or getting close, right, of your four. You'd be clear, except you're still intermingled on all this other crap. How are you going to get out of that, the stuff that's on his four? That's where once a refinance is step one or selling is step one, then we can start to change business names and start to move forward with step two. How are you going to get your name off of the leases and the loans that are on his floor? It's a verbal agreement at this point. Like I say, it's my father-in-law.

No, no, no. Are the banks going to release you? Yes. Okay. When? Once the SBAs are paid off. Then he would take them on just himself, and I'm taking them on as myself with four and four opposed to the eight. What are the SBAs?

The 800? Well, 800 is just on the four that I would have. It's closer to two million. So how are you going to get the other SBA loans paid off on the four he has? He would refinance under himself himself so he'd be responsible for that debt i'd just be assuming half of it okay and why is that not underway it took it took a while to get to the point to agree on four and four but now we've agreed when was that agreement established um probably within the month okay all right so he needs to

go refinance and get your name off the sbas he can get your name off the leases as well you personally guaranteed the leases i have contacts with all the landlords so i would definitely start there it's just a matter of get the financing right then take step two yeah well he's it's on him to refinance the portion of sba that's on those other four stores you You're waiting on him to do that. You can't make his decision for him on that. I would need to make it on my four. So I'm asking, should I? Yes, you should sell one of them.

That's what I just said. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Yeah. I'd be out of debt and I'd be clear on my father-in-law. Yeah. And, you know, what will the manager buy that one store for that you promised the manager?

$750. Okay. And you owe $800. So you need $50,000. You could probably borrow $50,000 on those three stores as a temporary thing and then turn around and get it paid off. And you're 100% debt-free. Did I understand that right? Other than my home, but business, yes.

But you own three stores free and clear. Yes. And you're free and clear of your father-in-law. Yes. I hear peace and tranquility in your life, thanksgiving dinner would taste different yeah well i mean you know you don't have any debt a year from today after you run through all this crap and you're but you have three paid four stores that you know how to run and you don't have a partner anymore that's your father-in-law i love this yeah that's where you need to go

yeah but you're already yeah but no i would not refinance it and then try to pay off 800 grand. That's what got you into this dadgum mess, is violating all these principles of debt and partnerships. So go back to a clean life with no debt and no partners, and you're going to love your life. And guess what? In 18 to 24 months, those three stores are going to generate enough for you to buy another one probably. Because you don't have any stinking payments anymore, and you don't have anybody riding your butt all the time. You can just run the things properly and don't have anybody to bother you. No bankers, no father-in-laws.

If you got all that off of you, if you know how to operate these restaurants, you should be able to make some serious bank on them. These are franchises, aren't they? Correct. Yeah. Okay. friends you should be able to make some serious bank on them these are franchises aren't they correct yeah okay so it's a cookie cutter machine is what it should be if you're not all weighed down with relational and debt problems agreed yeah it's worth it man cut the one loose let the manager have his store let him go get his money give you 750 you owe 50 you clear that up real quick get off the sba loan with the father-in-law get off theBA loan with the father-in-law. Get off the leases with the father-in-law.

And you're clear. I think I got this straight. Did I understand everything? You got the majority of it. That's what I wanted to hear. Yeah. Thank you. Head to peace and tranquility and simplicity.

You will then operate much more efficiently and more profitably. And that will cause your long-term prosperity. You are taking a small step back to be able to take a whole bunch forward. Good question. Thanks for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money.

If you have a question like that about business and about running business, I don't do partnerships. Partnerships are the only ship that won't sail. And so, you know, seriously, especially with family, you don't do it with your father-in-law. I can tell you story after story after story of father-in-law deals that didn't work. They don't work. Occasionally they do, but, you know, it's tough. My son-in-law works here.

We get along, but it's highly unusual. And you have to be very very careful with it so um anyway if you want to talk about business we're going to do an entree leadership theme hour uh in a few weeks or a few months few days whatever it is next week i guess it is right thursday this thursday okay anyway email email kelly at dave onAir at DaveRamsey.com. DaveOnAir at DaveRamsey.com. Put business or leadership or entree leadership in the subject line, and she'll get you on the air to ask your question,

and we'll walk through these together. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. our scripture of the day lamentations 324 the lord is my portion, says my soul. Therefore, I hope in him. Robert Shuler said, You let your hopes, not your hurts, shape your future. Ooh, that's strong. Very cool stuff. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee.

That means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your window blinds for free. Free samples, free shipping, new promos all the time. Check out the promo code RAMSY to get the best deal. Chris is in Tennessee. I'm 29 years old, wanting to use my retirement funds to pay off my student loans. I'm concerned about how this decision would affect me tax-wise. I've been told my retirement will be taxed at a rate of 20%. At the time of submission of my taxes, I'll be taxed an additional 10%.

Is this still an effective way to become debt-free? My income is $64,000 a year. You are not taxed 20% when you withdraw a 401k early. They withhold 20% when you withdraw retirement early mandatory but that is not the taxes the taxes are more than 20 because in most cases anyway they are because you have a 10 penalty plus your tax rate in your case you're in about a 20% tax bracket, so your taxes on the money would be 20%, plus you'd get hit with a 10% penalty.

So that's 30% of your money is going to go to the government if you pull this out early. So no, Chris, I would not do that, because it's much like saying, hey, Dave, I want to borrow money at 30% interest to pay off my student loan debt. No, we don't want to to do that it's not a good way to get out of student loan debt you don't give up 30 of your money to do that so instead we're going to get on a written budget roll up our sleeves and attack attack attack get fired up and get after this debt you can knock it

out making 64 it'll take you a little while you probably do it in about two years maybe even less well our smart conference is approaching a sellout wow we're going to have almost 10 000 people in sacramento pretty crazy we're going to be there november the 16th for the first time ever and we're really looking forward to this. It's going to be an incredible event. If you've never been to one of our smart conferences, it's all day long, and it's full of experts in every area of your life. And these are my friends. They're the people I read, the people I believe in. So Les Parrott is going to be there.

Dr. Les Parrott on marriage and money. And on marriage, I'm sorry, marriage and relationship expert. He does the money and marriage events with Rachel Cruz. Dr. Meg Meeker will be there, the leading authority on parenting and children's health. One of my favorite speakers and writers on parenting ever. Chris Hogan will be there, national best-selling author, number one best-selling author twice, including the Everyday Millionaire's book. He'll be talking about that.

Ken Coleman, national radio host and Ramsey personality, career expert, number one best-selling author of the book The Proximity Principle. We'll be talking about careers. So we've got careers, millionaires, parenting, Les Perret on marriage. Anthony O'Neill will be there. Guess what he'll be talking about teenagers he spends more time with teenagers than anybody in america john o'leary will be there leadership expert one of my favorite speakers ever is patsy claremont national best

selling author and one of the founding speakers from the original Women of Faith Conference. And Patsy is, oh, she is a jewel. You're going to love this day. You would pay this for one of these speakers to learn $59. That covers the whole day. Just go to DaveRamsey.com or call our Ramsey concierge team at 888-22-PIECE, 888-227-3223. Austin is with us in California. Hey, Austin, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, what's up? I had a question about term life insurance. I am getting a new term policy, and I'm curious if you, I know you recommend 20-year, but I really like the idea of getting a 30-year policy just because it's not that much more than the 20-year policy, and I really like the idea. Just curious your thoughts on a 20-year policy versus a 30-year policy. How old are you? 34.

Okay. And why do you feel like you're going to need insurance until 64 i don't think i will i just like the idea of if something happens to me for you know because for my family getting the extra money on top of whatever else we have so it's really not a necessity i would hope hope, at that point. Yeah, okay. All right. Well, I would never recommend someone buy life insurance to increase their wealth upon their death. It doesn't work out to be a good plan. You're better off to use your money to create wealth to be used upon your death. However, you know, full disclosure,

I have absolutely zero need for life insurance in my situation. I'm a multimillionaire. My wife will be just fine if something happens. And yet we still have life insurance on me for no real financial planning reason. It is just SWI. Sharon wants it. So it kind of relates to what you're saying there. So full disclosure, I don't recommend that, but I have to admit that I do it.

But it's a complete waste because there's no need for it. It's just Sharon wants it, and she'd rather have that policy than another diamond, so she can have it. Okay, so anyway, but there's no mathematical reason for it. So the thing I have discovered, and you can do a 30 if you want to, Austin, but the thing I've discovered is as long as you stay healthy, your needs for life insurance are going to shift more than three or four more times during the next 30 years.

So, like, for instance, what's happened with us was we first bought term insurance when our children were little. And later on, I bought some to make sure that a building I started I could complete or Sharon could complete it if I died. And then later on, I wanted a little more insurance because our incomes had gone up and our children were still at home. So I added another policy. Meantime, one of the 15 years I'd originally bought ran out. And the strange thing is, is that term insurance in the last 30 years has been so competitive that they've continued to use newer and newer statistical tables, actuarial tables, to do the analysis. And the newer tables show people dying later rather than earlier because people are living longer. And

the newer tables then indicate a cheaper premium. So in other words, I bought a million-dollar policy at 40 years old cheaper than I paid for a million dollars at 35. Yet I was five years older because the market pressures were driving the cost down. I don't know that it will necessarily do that in the next 30 years, but I suspect it might because there's a lot of, I mean, term insurance is a commodity. It's a free-for-all out there to get the best price. It's very price-driven now.

And that's why Zander Insurance has been so successful as an independent broker searching a bazillion companies on their website and giving you the best price. Because it drives the price down. The market pressures of competition drive the price down and so anyway all of that to say if you bought a 15 or a 20 you're probably going to buy another one before that one runs out unless you lost your health and were completely became uninsurable due to heart attack or cancer or diabetes or something like that during the time knock on wood i haven't had that happen and so I've been able to continue to buy a policy if I wanted one, and now I'm almost 60, and so I can still buy a policy if I want one. And the strange thing is it's cheaper at 60 than it was when I was 55,

and so it's just as long as you haven't lost your health, the prices have continued to drop. So for that reason, I don't get that concerned about it. My personal experience has been that people own more than one policy through their lifetime. They end up adding and dropping and adding and dropping and changing, getting better prices, restructuring their stuff. And so the 15 to 20- year tends to be very realistic.

The one exception would be if you lost your health. So it's up to you. If you want to pay a little more for the 30, that's fine. I will give you a high probability that you will not own that policy 30 years from now. Just because of life change. That's what I'm talking about here. Hey, good question. Thank you for joining us.

Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer, and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.