The Ramsey Show - App - A $60,000 Mistake Turned Into a Wake-Up Call

Starting point is 00:00:00 Normal is broken. We're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. This is the Ramsey show alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. Ken Coleman, Coleman, the phone number is Triple-8-8-2-25-3-2-5-2-5-2-25-3-2-2-5. All right, we're going to get to your calls.

Starting point is 00:00:39 We're coming up very soon. Really fun story for my colleague here. You may know her journey. She and Sam, her hubs, paid off half a million dollars in debt. She gets you, folks. You're in debt. She gets you. She really does.

Starting point is 00:00:53 Fun story I asked her to share. I've gotten to know her and Sam very well. And so that's coming up. You don't want to miss that. those of you who are kind of on that edge today, you're going, can I do this? Can I make it? You can make it. She's going to tell you how. It's going to be fun. But first, Jack is up in Indianapolis, Indiana. Jack, how can we help today?

Starting point is 00:01:13 Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I bought a RV for 60,000 on a 15-year loan at 18% interest. Wow. Why did you do that? that? I'm realizing how bad of a decision it was. It was to live in, to save up eventually for a house. And I'm realizing, like, how the interest is $800 a month on just interest. My goodness.

Starting point is 00:01:54 Only $50 goes to the principal, and I'm realizing it'll be like $16 months. months before I even scratched the surface under what I borrowed. So I was wondering, because obviously I want to get out of it now, I started the baby steps. All I had was like a thousand personal loan, 2,000 personal loan. I had some student loans. I had some credit cards. But I only made $2,000 a month when I bought it, so I don't even know how. I got approved for it.

Starting point is 00:02:30 Right. But I went one by one, and I got rid of everything except for the camper. My income's about $4,000 a month now. Okay. Where are you living? I got a job as a truck driver, so in the truck. Okay. Are you okay?

Starting point is 00:02:55 You don't sound okay. You don't sound very okay to me. it's just your voice, but I'm just sensing. I'm really nervous. I'm really nervous. I just, okay. Yeah, no, I'm good. Okay, great. Okay. So you've got, did I understand correctly when you said you got rid of all the other debt except this RV? Yeah, everything. Okay, good. I did make a little mistake. I know you're supposed to save a thousand first with the first thousand. I put it towards the debt. Okay. But yes, I have my $1,000. Everything else is gone. Good. Except for this camper. And you still owe 60. What's it worth if you were to sell it?

Starting point is 00:03:33 The dealership offered 31. Oh, Lordy. But what if you were to sell at private sale? Have you looked into that? I have it listed for 38. And I've been trying to call the show for a couple months now. So I owe 48 on it now. You owe 48 on it now, and you could sell it for 31? 38? So it's got a list of that. I have a list to $30. So it's a $10,000 deficit there. What keeps you from going down to a credit union or going down to a bank or getting any kind of loan to clear this out? Why don't we do that?

Starting point is 00:04:16 I canceled my credit cards when I removed them and it brought my credit score down pretty low. Uh-huh. What about a credit union? Have you gone into a bank to see? Because at this point, here's my thinking on this. My rationale is there's not a worse loan than the one you have. And this is going, you're going down. You're going from $48,000 of debt to $10,000 of debt.

Starting point is 00:04:38 I'm going to take that deal every time, even if the terms aren't great. Well, yeah, because you're going to knock it out. You make $4,000 a month. You knocked out the other debt. Why can't you knock out this $10,000 of debt very quickly? That's true. I was because I was trying to rent it as well

Starting point is 00:04:58 to see if I could try to get money out of it but every moment you wait it's dropping in value because because you're in such a bad loan right the interest alone is $800 a month so you got time is not on your side my friend listen we're coming to you from the Fairwinds credit union studio I'd call our friends at Fairwinds and say hey I was just on the show

Starting point is 00:05:18 with Jade and you can and here's my situation and I've made progress Well, you guys help me out. And if they can help you out, they will. And to your, into Jade's point, then if we can sell this thing and then they take over the loan for the, the minimal amount you're going to have left, you can knock that out. So you want to get rid of this because this is a depreciating asset. That's why she's telling you that. You've got to get rid of it.

Starting point is 00:05:44 I would only, and for anybody listening who's like, oh, Jay told him to get a loan. She told him to take it out on a credit card. She told him to take a bad loan. We're going down, people. We're going from 48 down to 10. We're not going up. He's not taking a loan to go into debt. He's taking a lesser loan to get out of debt.

Starting point is 00:05:59 So that's the difference there for anybody who's trying to clock something that's not there. Yeah. And now, is this truck job? What's your opportunity to make more money than the $4,000 a month? Well, in the beginning, it was like, that's what I was getting because I was in training. I also do all the services on his trucks. because he owns a trucking company, so I do all the mechanic work on them for side money on cash when I am at Indianapolis, because it is long haul.

Starting point is 00:06:33 So as we look forward, how much more additional money can you make then than the $4,000? Four to $6,000 a month, I'd say take home. All right. And long term, is this a great opportunity for you to get to the six-figure range? It seems like it, yeah. Okay. All right. Well, what's the lesson here that you've learned? You know, because a lot of times we'll teach out of this. I want people here from you today because you're sitting in this calling us with a pit in your stomach. So what's the lesson for everybody else? Don't get the dealership, markups. Don't get the warranty stuff. Don't buy new. Like ask someone older than you. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:16 You know, I haven't, yeah. I'm definitely not doing debt anymore. Yeah. How old are you, Jack? I just turned 20. 20 years of age. You learned a great lesson at a young age, my friend. That's awesome. I wish you did it cost $60,000. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:33 That's all right, but it's a good lesson to learn. Hey, no one gets out. Let me, not no one, few people get out unscathed. When you walk into the real world, right? You get out of college, you start your life as an adult. Few, Jack, get out of this without making major mistakes. That's how we learn.

Starting point is 00:07:52 and for you I want you to look at this don't look at it as oh my gosh my mistake I ruined my life just look at it as some research you did you did a little bit of research and you found out that buying an RV to live in or buying anything that goes down in value is not a good idea now you can stick that in your pocket

Starting point is 00:08:08 and keep it as a knowledge base for later yeah I love it makes me think of the old song what by Ray Charles hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more no more no more hit the road Jack that's what he's saying to death That's good. Yeah, come on.

Starting point is 00:08:24 You know, sometimes I think of these old school things. Now, if Rachel were next to me, she'd have no idea what I'm talking about. I thought you were going to say something totally different. No, hit the road, Jack. I like it. He got on the road and the 18-wheeler. He's getting after it. He's 20 years of age.

Starting point is 00:08:36 He learned his lesson. I love his lessons. He did a great job, America. You heard Jack. And he's going to be okay. He's going to do great. He's only 20 years of age. He learned a big lesson.

Starting point is 00:08:47 Now he's on the road to being debt-free. Ken Coleman at Jade Warshaw, hanging out with you today. And I, Jade, Stacy and I, we've gotten to be really good friends with you and Sam. And as we get to know you guys, your story is so powerful. And it occurred to me today that there are a lot of people, people come in in all the time. We have some people that are, you know, baby step one. They're just trying to get. $1,000.

Starting point is 00:09:23 That's a scramble. It's tough. There are some people that are in Baby Step 2, and they're looking at that mountain, and they're just trying to get some momentum. And it just occurred to me that you've got some incredible stories, not the least of which is from the mountain that you climbed. $500,000. You two went through.

Starting point is 00:09:41 We were at dinner recently, and we were talking about some of the crazy things and crazy stories. Yeah. So I want just to bring it in, because story is what connects to people. Right. Take us to one of maybe the more memorable moments from your journey of paying off that kind of money. What comes to mind? I mean, if I really think about it, the story that stands out probably most to me is probably that I've had it moment, Ken, because I think we've all been there where you've

Starting point is 00:10:10 kind of understood, hey, I need to make some changes with my money. I probably need to get on this plan that Ramsey's talking about. And you start it and you feel like you're doing the thing, but you're still so frustrated. Right? How many people, have started the Ramsey plan and they kind of feel like they're taking two steps forward, one step back. Because life hits, right? Life hits, the emotions hit. And sometimes you just kind of want to throw up your hands and go, is this going to be worth the trouble? And I remember that, at least for me, I woke up in the morning. And the first thing that woke me up in the morning was my phone buzzing. And when I looked at the number, it was $1,800 pay me, which is what I call the debt

Starting point is 00:10:47 collectors. It was a credit card. And, you know, back then, I was kind of in avoidance mode, so I just hit the button so that it would go to voicemail. And then five minutes later, it buzzed again. And then 10 minutes later, it buzzed again. Not how you want to start a day. Well, that was the way I started my days. Every day. That was just the way it was because what I didn't realize, I wasn't doing what the plan taught.

Starting point is 00:11:09 I wasn't paying minimum payments on everything and then putting the extra money to the smallest. I was just trying to put all the money on the smallest debt. So I had these bill collectors blowing me up. and it went on throughout the day and that day Sam and I had to run an errand back then we were doing a bunch of side hustles and a lot of times we'd get paid in cash

Starting point is 00:11:28 and then we'd have to take the cash to the bank to deposit it so that we could actually pay our bills and so that day we were going to deposit like 300 bucks in cash to the bank so that we could pay our rent and on the way to the bank the phone buzzed

Starting point is 00:11:43 and it buzzed again and it buzzed again and when I tell you Ken I lost it I lost it. I was like, pull the car over. That's what I told Sam. I said, pull the car over. And he's like, okay. Like, is it me? What did I do? But, you know, Sam, he's like, when Jade gets like this, I just need to listen. Right, right. So he pulled the car over and I proceeded to just go off. I was like, we've been working this plan. We've been doing everything right. What do we have to show for it? You know, and I was so angry. And the worst part of it was, here we are. I'm going off. We're sitting in our Jeep, which has pay. on it. The AC barely works, right? And it's South Florida, so it's hot. And, you know, the moment you slow down, the AC stops working even more. So we're just sitting in this hot butt car, just, you know, and I'm crying. And Sam is like, oh my gosh, like, what do I do? And I remember I picked up

Starting point is 00:12:39 the money that we are supposed to be depositing. And I said, let's just give this to the credit card company so they can stop calling me. It's $300. They want it like $298. And back then, that felt like the world. I would have done anything to get that money in that moment. But I feel like I had already, I was already doing the side hustles. I was already working full. I was already doing everything. And I was ready to give them my rent money.

Starting point is 00:13:04 And Sam was like, we can't do that. He was like, we can't do that. We have to stay the course. We have to do what we know to do. And I remember for like the next two hours, we just sat. And it was kind of like we went after all the emotions subsided. We sat and went through it all with a fine tooth comb. was like, what are we missing? What are we missing here? What are we doing wrong? Because it

Starting point is 00:13:25 shouldn't feel like this. And that's when we figured out, hey, we're not doing it correct. We're putting all of our money to the smallest debt. We're not paying the minimums first. We don't have a thousand dollars saved. That's why it feels so tight. That's why we're trying to give them rent money. That's what, and sometimes that's what we have to do when we feel those moments of frustration, like our emotions are taking over. We have to stop and go, what am I missing? And it's almost like you need to do an audit and go back over your behavior because when you're in this plan, there's so much that we're throwing at you. Save $1,000. Do it like this. Stop eating out. Stop your withholding. Stop your, you know, change your W-4, all that kind of stuff. And it can be hard to remember it all. And before you

Starting point is 00:14:04 do it, before you know it, you're missing something. Something's a little bit off. And it's all with the best of intentions. But that's just one of the many ways that our emotions can make us want to give up. They can kind of throw a wrench in the whole thing and everything just grinds to a halt and I really care about that because I hear it all the time in calls. Yeah, I'm going to ask you from your journey plus the calls that you've now, you've sat in thousands of calls. Man. All right. What is one of the most prevalent, one of the most obvious emotions that you see in this debt-free journey getting control of your money? What's an emotion that you see pretty commonly? I mean, what I just gave an example of would be frustration, but what we hear

Starting point is 00:14:45 a lot here on the calls, it's anger. It's that anger of way to say. second, I did everything right. The culture said I'm supposed to go to college. If I go to college and get a good degree, I'll be successful. So I get a student loan for that because that's what they said to do. And I did it. And then when I graduated, I was told that I could celebrate and get a car loan because that's what you do when you graduate. So I got my car loan. And then I got married and I bought a house. I did everything right. Why am I up to my eyeballs in debt and stress? Or maybe you're a person who it's kind of like what Dr. Johnny, Dr. John Deloney would say. Let's please start calling him Johnny DeLone. Dr. Johnny. That's funny. You know, he would say not by my hand,

Starting point is 00:15:23 but in my lap. And a lot of us are dealing with that. It's like we didn't cause the financial struggle, but here we are left to deal with it. And it makes us mad. You know, I thought the government was going to pay off my student loans. I waited. I did the public service student loan thing. They didn't come in, they didn't hold up their end of the bargain. So there's a lot of things that have caused us to be disenchanted with the whole thing. And that anger is real. So So in my hearing, I think I'm hearing this, correct if I'm wrong, what you really believe based on your own experience, and then coaching a lot of people, is that winning with money isn't just about our process, it's also winning with the emotions that come with this process.

Starting point is 00:16:07 Is that what I'm hearing? What's the key to winning, though, with those emotions? How do you deal with those emotions and stay on track? You know what I learned? It's endurance. You have to embrace endurance. because endurance produces maturity. That's truly what the Bible says.

Starting point is 00:16:23 That's exactly what it says. But I learned that running a marathon. When I ran, and I'm talking about an actual marathon, on a financial marathon. I can vouch for this. It's true. She's a warrior princess. When I started, when I said, I want to run this marathon.

Starting point is 00:16:37 The first thing that came was, oh my gosh, it's going to be hard. Oh my gosh, it's going to last for three months. There's a long time period that you have to embrace. There's a discomfort that you have to embrace. I remember midway through training, my Achilles was hurting, my quads were hurting, but you have to run anyway, right? Then you go out there in some days it's raining and the weather's not good and you have to run anyway because you know if you just follow the process, if you just do the training,

Starting point is 00:17:04 you will cross the finish line. That is a given. And millions of people have done it before me. So if I just accept the process, if I can get to a point of acceptance, that I have to just endure this thing, a hard thing for a long period of time, I can win. and money is exactly the same way. The conditions are not always going to be favorable. There's going to be pain.

Starting point is 00:17:23 There's going to be discomfort. You're going to have to do it day after day after day. And sometimes it gets harder before it gets easier. But if you keep going, you will cross your finish line. So that's a fun example right there of just a smidge of something I know you're very excited about. I'm holding in my hands something really, really cool. Look at that, Ken Coleman. It's, first of all, it's a fabulous picture of you.

Starting point is 00:17:48 Thank you. Good grief. Well, for those listening, it's a book. Did you do a couple push-ups before they took that picture? That was after the marathon. So for those listening, I'm holding to my hands, your brand new book. It's called What No One Tell You About Money, the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. And that's just one of the amazing stories.

Starting point is 00:18:07 Just real quick, tell folks how they can get this. This is exciting. Yeah, go to ramsysolutions.com slash store. You can pick one up. It's on pre-sale, guys, today. please if you've ever been stuck if you've ever wanted to throw up your hands if you're sick of taking two steps forward one step back if you just need something you're like jade how what can I do this is the book for you I'm not just an expert yapping at you I am your buddy walking with you

Starting point is 00:18:31 getting knee deep in the emotions with you get it right now ramsysolutions dot com slash store pre-order and you get a hundred dollars plus and free bonus items All right, let's go to Elijah, who's joining us in Oregon. Elijah, how can we help today? Strong name. I like it. Hey, man. How's going?

Starting point is 00:18:53 Good, good, good. Good, good. Good, good. That's what everyone always tells me. I'm happy to have it. That's right. What's going on? So, basically, I'm going to try and tell this story as concisely as possible, but it is kind of a tricky one.

Starting point is 00:19:06 So basically, I was engaged to a girl, and we were together for a few months, I mean, engaged for a few months. We were together for over a year, but she started expressing doubts, and ultimately she told me she wanted to end the engagement. And around that time, we found out that we were pregnant together. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I, um, I was adamant about, hey, I think we should really try and stay together for the kids' sake. I think we should fall through with staying together. And so she was open to it for a little while. I moved her into my place. She has two kids. So we moved the whole family. And, uh, but ultimately, I think she just kind of felt trapped me in my place, and she ended up leaving and going back to her place.

Starting point is 00:19:49 She got her ex-boyfriend, one of her other kids' fathers to help her move, and he was kind of helping her out for a week. And, yeah, and so she left, and I was working on a wildfire at the time, and when I got off, I guess she, you know, her ex-boyfriend kind of went out of state to go work a job, and so she kind of started reaching out back out to me for help. and she doesn't really want to be together, but she's been asking for a lot of financial support, and she hasn't really guaranteed me that I'm going to even get to have like a relationship with my, you know, with our baby on the way. She's pretty adamant about just wanting to raise, raise her on her own and then just kind of receive child support. And so she's not open to any kind of 50-50 custody or anything like that. And, you know, so I wanted to be helpful to her.

Starting point is 00:20:37 Obviously, she's the mother of this child, you know, that we created. but it's really hard to not kind of feel like I'm just sort of being taken advantage of. We had kind of agreed on that I would give her a little bit of money out of each paycheck to kind of help her out. She was getting a little bit of child support from her other fathers. But even that, she hasn't really been getting lately because they, like, lost their job. The other one's working under the table. Do her other two kids have two separate dads?

Starting point is 00:21:02 Are there three dads total? Yeah, two separate fathers. I would be the third father to have a kid with her. I hate this. that this is happening to you because this is tough really tough emotionally but man you've dodged a bullet this i'm listen i'm not okay no i mean i'm saying like just you have dodged this is not a a woman that i think you want to settle down with we've got two other dudes two other kids she is taking advantage of you you she doesn't want you in a picture she doesn't value you

Starting point is 00:21:39 assuming that everything you're telling us is true. Let me ask you straight up, Elijah. What did you do? Did you do anything or are you completely innocent holding a bag? Like, did you do anything to cause us to come to an end? I mean, I want to try and be as honest as I can. The reason I'm calling you guys is because I feel like what she and I have been doing is like, I'll talk to my people and they'll be like, well, she's taking advantage of you.

Starting point is 00:22:05 And then she'll talk to her people and they'll say, well, he's not stepping up as a man or whatever. Okay. And so I would say the main problems, I can tell you what she's expressed with her problems with me were. Tell me. A lot of them were just kind of like household issues. Like it would be stuff like I would put on an audio Bible and I didn't accidentally wake her up and she thought that was inconsiderate. Not you listening to the Bible. Come on. Wait a minute. I mean, I think it was more than that much of my angel. All right. Hold on a second. I think everybody knows that I took you at face value. But now I'm starting to doubt you when you drop the Bible. That's the first thing that she brought to. Are you shooting me straight? Nothing. I'm telling you this because that was the night before she left.

Starting point is 00:22:45 How late at night was, okay, I got to do a follow-up. America needs it to know this. How late at night was it? I don't know. It might have been 10 or 11 or something. Well, she in bed? It might have been in the middle of the night. It might have been like I woke up to get a glass of water and I was having

Starting point is 00:23:01 trouble sleeping or something. And so you're right next to her? So you're right next to her, listening to the Old Testament? I'd be pissed too. I don't care what if it's the Bible or not I'm trying to sleep, go to the living room But that doesn't sound like But that doesn't sound like worthy of this

Starting point is 00:23:16 Yeah, I was trying to get at Did you do anything? Like did you cheat? Did you, were you being a jerk In some kind of way? Okay Do you just listen to your Bible too much? All right, do you not understand? So it was like, yeah, I'm sorry Well, I just want to ask you, you laughed

Starting point is 00:23:32 When I said it and I don't mind being laughed at You know, it happens all the time I'm sitting right here. It really does. Do you not understand what I mean when I say you dodged a relationship bullet here? As hard as this is, and I hate that the custody thing is the thing, I got a lady in the front row. This is a wise woman I can just see. And she's giving me a thumbs up.

Starting point is 00:23:52 So that means I'm right, which is rare, too. You know, you've dodged a bullet, and I share that to say, this is painful, this is tough. But I think you need to understand that what you have a responsibility to, is child support. That's right. So I would, let me tie this up in my opinion. And then I got an outlier towards the end here. And I want to get out of the way, let Jade weigh in. But I'll say that I think part of your healing needs to be, I really dodged a bullet here. This is a very complex relationship I was in. It's messy. She does not seem like long-term material to me. I'm not judging folks. I call balls and strikes. Okay. And so we

Starting point is 00:24:35 He dodged a bullet. That should help you recover a little bit quicker. Two, I'm okay with you continuing to give her the money that you agreed to because you said it was a small amount and I would keep your word unless she does something that would then morally disqualify. And you go, well, you didn't keep your word. I'm going to keep your mind. And then I would wait for the judge to decide.

Starting point is 00:24:54 The problem is that she continues to ask for more and she's been spending on things that aren't a sense. That's not your problem. Oh, hold on a second. Tell me. Hold on. It's not your problem. I don't care how many times she asked.

Starting point is 00:25:04 you give her what you agreed to unless she violates the agreement then you don't have to give her anything and then I'd wait for the judge to tell you because the judge is going to tell you and I want to know what that amount is what are you giving her now I basically went off of what she got child support

Starting point is 00:25:18 from her other people and it was something like it was something like 250 to 300 out of every like couple weeks and so it was only like 500 a month but I went back and ultimately I was giving her because she would continue asking for more and ultimately it was like

Starting point is 00:25:34 two to three times as much as what I ended up giving her. And so I went and I talked to her and I was just kind of like, hey, I feel like you're asking for a lot more than what we originally agreed on. And so I kind of tried to switch to just like, can you just like let me know when you need groceries or something? No, stop. She doesn't have this control over you, man. I want to jump in here because there is part of this.

Starting point is 00:25:55 I want to know more because the truth is if you were taking care of, because the child support obviously needs to start while she's pregnant because she's carrying the baby. So usually it's based off of a percentage of what you're earning. So likening it to the other guys, I get why you're doing it, but it might not necessarily be fair if you were making more than them and if you were in a situation where you were previously providing more.

Starting point is 00:26:20 So there's part of that that I want to be fair to the baby and fair to what it actually takes to carry a baby. Well, we need to get a judge involved in this. And you need to do that sooner than later. But not give her any more money. Don't give her anymore. until we get a judge involved. You give her what you said you're going to hear.

Starting point is 00:26:36 I'm going to take a hard line on that one. She's asking for more and she's manipulating you and she's holding that baby over you. I don't like it. One of the concerns is like obviously just kind of like there's, you know, enough kind of why I wanted to talk to you guys because obviously there's a lot of emotional parts involved for me. But her two fathers, her only income source is child support.

Starting point is 00:26:57 She lives for free on her grandmother's property. Another problem. But her only income is child support. and so her two fathers basically stop paying child support her. So it's kind of like if I'm not supporting her like nobody is. Not your problem. It's not your... But I mean, she's the mother of my child.

Starting point is 00:27:12 Like I obviously don't want her to go hungry while she's growing our baby. I understand that. Your only commitment is whatever the fair and equitable child support number is, if you want to give more than that, you can. But she's manipulating you right now. The very nature of that question is a guy who's been manipulated emotionally. And I get it. You got a good heart.

Starting point is 00:27:31 but she will take advantage of this. Her two deadbeat dudes that she got pregnant with the first time, that's her problem and their problem. It's not your problem. This is a country music song is what this is. This entire call is a number one hit. And I know, because we're in Music City. I mean, if you got any musical talent, you might want to write this one.

Starting point is 00:27:51 It could really take off. In the meantime, Elijah, go online and look at just kind of some standards to get an idea. I'm looking here. Standard is usually 17% for one child. 25% for 2, 29% for 3, I will disagree with my colleague and say, her home situation does affect how she's carrying your baby today. So you need to weigh, you need to weigh that in. I'm not saying be taking advantage of, but I'm just saying, she's a mess, no matter how much money this guy gets. But it all, but it's all together. It's all together is all I'm saying. I get it. I'm thinking

Starting point is 00:28:22 of the baby. It's a country music song. Somebody write that. All right, let's go to Taylor. He's joining us now in Cleveland, Ohio. Taylor, how can we help today? Hi there. So my question is, my husband started a side hustle last year doing home inspection. So this is not his full-time career gig. This is just something that he thought would be lucrative,

Starting point is 00:28:56 and I think he just really wants to be a business owner, and I appreciate that about him. my question is so we we have no debt on the business praise jesus um but up front we spent about $13,000 like for him to go to school to get his permits all the equipment he you know he needed um and then every month we're paying like 300-ish dollars for the program that like the software he uses um our insurance and all of that like business insurance okay so and obviously home inspections are not super consistent, like they can, you know, vary every month. Sure.

Starting point is 00:29:36 So I guess my question is, at what point do we say this business is costing us money every month? It's not making us anything. It's not profitable at all? Well, okay, so like I said, it varies. So like this month, he's had no home inspections at all. So we have been paying the $300 on all these things that we need to sustain the business. but haven't made any money. Last month, he had two home inspections.

Starting point is 00:30:04 You got to look at it over the life of the business. When did he start it? He started, so he was off the ground in March. Okay. And since March, how much has, you got to look at it as it is. Since March, how much he's brought in, it's just, you know, a balance sheet. How much he's brought in minus how many expenses. And what's the number?

Starting point is 00:30:26 So with the debt of about, well, not debt. but what we paid out about $13,000 plus the $300 a month. He's done, yes, he's done about eight home inspections at roughly like $400 a piece. Okay. So $32? Right. And that's, that is all at this point. Okay. And do you guys have you decided at what point the break even should be and at what point he should be profitable? Because here's the thing. If you guys didn't set out what the plan is, then we don't know. at what point to pull the trigger because it's fair it's fair to say it's going to take some time to earn a profit but once he starts turning it everything after that is profit so once he

Starting point is 00:31:09 makes 13,000 or 14,000 with the $300 a month then you're profitable so you guys have to decide that yeah that's true I could absolutely see where you're coming from on that are you calling or are you calling on behalf of him in other words no he's wondering I thought so So if I run into him today, and we don't know about this call, and I say to him, what do you do? And he says, I'm in Cleveland, and I've got this job, but then I've got a little home inspection business that I've got going. And I say, well, how do you feel about that? What's he going to say to me in response to that question? Oh, he's going to say, it's great.

Starting point is 00:31:48 Okay. And he's going to say, like I said, he's more of the dreamer. So he is like, you know, we just have to wait another month. I just need to be doing this or that or I need to get, you know, in with a realtor, which in theory, absolutely he does, and I support that. Yeah. The problem is, like I mentioned, this is his sidekick. So he can't put as much effort into this as he does his full-time career

Starting point is 00:32:13 because we also have two small children and I work part-time, you know, so we have all these better factors. Got a lot going on. All right. Let me ask another question. Right. Do you manage the budget? Are you the nerd that's more in the numbers?

Starting point is 00:32:25 Yeah By the way And so then The 300 a month How tight Is that from a number standpoint Not from an emotional standpoint We know the answer

Starting point is 00:32:40 The idea that we're spending 300 a month And it's not ROI and it's driving you nuts You're breaking out in hives I get it But I'm talking real numbers How much does the $300 a month affect you guys I mean, it's not like we are trying to rub nickels together here.

Starting point is 00:33:00 What I will say, the other factor that's kind of, it plays in for me is that his full-time job, he recently left the position that he was in and went somewhere else, and we did take a pay cut there. So, and that was his choice, and I was hesitant about, you know, how much? So he is making about $10,000 less. a year than he was. And what baby step are you guys on? So we are completely paid off aside from our house. Okay, that's great. Can I ask you a question? And we're 32 and 34. Okay, so you have time. My question for you, if I were your husband, what's your husband's name? You don't have to say.

Starting point is 00:33:42 It's Eric. Okay. It's okay. If I was Eric, my question would be okay, honey. How do you think that we, because the truth is we've we've sunk 15,000 into this. My plan was that over time, we'd recoup that from the business and then we'd be profitable. Yeah. If we stop the business now, honey, how do you think that we're going to recoup the 15,000? Okay, so I can tell you the answer to that. Hit me. So he's like, well, I can start a mowing company or like a lawn care business.

Starting point is 00:34:16 So it's business after business after business because he'd have to create a new. No, no. Let me tell you what I'd tell Eric, okay. Well, wait, wait, wait, she didn't answer the question. That was how Eric would answer. That's how Eric would answer. I want to know how would you answer. I want to know, in your mind, how do you recoup the $15,000 if it's not through the business

Starting point is 00:34:34 that was supposed to recoup it? So I honestly, if it were up to me, I would just say, call it a loss, time to be done, and I would take the money that we were putting towards the business every month, and I would be putting it on our house payment. that's just the way we actually just got our PMI taken off which saves us about $200 a month for that which I then in turn have been putting on our principal so I I would like to put even more on that if we could because it's not you know like I mentioned it's not like we're rubbing the nickels together to get this 300 a month got I feel like we would be better suited putting it somewhere

Starting point is 00:35:13 on a scale of 1 to 10 what's your risk tolerance on a scale of 1 to 10 I'm raising my hand It's my turn. Probably like a two-ish. I am not. I'm not. And I know I need to work on that. Can I go now? Okay.

Starting point is 00:35:28 Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I'm trying to set you free. Okay. He wants to do something entrepreneurial. Yeah. You guys have already invested the $13,000. Yes, he's slow going, but he's got a lot going on.

Starting point is 00:35:42 This is a good man. There's no marital tension here. I'm talking to two responsible people that are on base. on Baby Step 6, here's what I think your encouragement would be to him. Hey, babe, how many realtors do we know? And if we don't know any realtors, who do we know that know any realtors? And this does not take a lot of time. He can carry a full-time job, help you at home with all of his husband and dad duties,

Starting point is 00:36:09 and still connect to realtors and go, hey, I've launched a business. If you're looking for somebody reputable, or if you get in a pinch, even though you may have a guy, I can be your guy, and he does this, and this is phone calls on the way to work, phone calls on the way home, phone calls during lunch. This is a simple solution. There's no need for him to stop this business and go to something else. He hasn't given enough time, nor can I say, and it's not a critique, he's just not given enough energy.

Starting point is 00:36:36 And so you could say to him, hey, babe, I have a little bit of right here because we're putting 300 a month in, and I'd like this to start to ROI, but I believe in you. and so I think this is what we need to do and you can say I call the Ramsey show blame it on me I don't care it's easy because I'm not going to be in the dining room blame it on me too because I agree with you okay that's why I was chomping at the bit to go

Starting point is 00:36:57 I think you're focused on the wrong thing and I love your I love that you want it to ROI and it should but instead of shutting it down you got to give it time you got to give it time and don't forget what this is for him this is a bigger deal to him than what it is to you and I think I'd let this thing play

Starting point is 00:37:15 but it's okay for you as one half of this marriage to have a voice. And to say, I think it should R.O.I. And babe, here's what I think we do. And by the way, you could go reach out to some realtors. And it's okay for you who's a two on the risk meter to say, I do want to put some sort of timeline on this that if we get to a certain point and we're still nowhere close to ROIing on this, that we need to consider what comes next. That's fair. That is 100% fair. And I think that becomes obvious. It's not for us to decide. But I hope that helps. your sweet, sweet lady and a great wife, let this thing play out. Let's start recruiting. Let's go find more realtors you in front of that he gets some type of a deal with. The more inspections he's going to get, the more inspections he gets, the more money he makes, the happier you are when you see that budget every year. And that is what it's all about. Happy wife. Happy life.

Starting point is 00:38:15 Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Dayton is joining us now from Vancouver. Dayton, how can we help today? Hey there, guys. Yeah, calling in just, I'll make it as brief as I can. It's a bit of a mindset kind of thing. My wife and I, quite a few years ago, we had quite a bit of debt about $22,000, and we had worked hard to pay that off.

Starting point is 00:38:39 And then since then we've had three kids, bought a house, and a lot of things have happened, and racked up quite a bit more debt. my mind my mindset question to you is what are some ways that we can kind of protect ourselves from doing this again we're just starting the baby steps and we don't want to get out of debt and then get back into it a lot of shame around like sticking to our budget like looking at our finances and stuff so I'm just wondering if you guys can kind of help us with the mindset of getting out and staying out so my first question would be when you back in the day when you paid off the 22,000 what did

Starting point is 00:39:15 it what did it look like to pay that off did it was it painful or was it kind of like we're going to do this and once it was done it was done um initially it was kind of painful like i can't believe i did this credit card company saw me coming from a mile away at 18 and then um i just worked i was at a job where i could work tons overtime so i pretty much worked seven days a week 60 70 hours a week kind of thing and we just we worked through it and it felt really good when we got out of debt it was it was a grind getting through it. How long did that take?

Starting point is 00:39:50 I was able to pay that off in about 11 months, I think it was. So without giving us too long of a story, what happened? Because you said, and then things happened and we accumulated debt again. What type of things? Well, in that window, pretty much right after that, we got married, and then we had our first child, and then we had our second child. and then I did a career change that cost me quite a bit of money to go to school down in Texas, and then we bought a house, and then we had a third child.

Starting point is 00:40:27 And, you know, when you buy a house to make it what you want it, you end up spending money thinking that it's going to be okay. So what kind of career change was this? What are you doing now? I'm a firefighter now. And what did that cost you? It cost me about $20,000 to get into that. Do you still have a loan on that?

Starting point is 00:40:46 I know, so, well, yeah, I guess it's part of my, one of my line of credits I used to get into that. And so I'm hearing one of your line of credits, and that's what we did to make the house great for three kids? Yes. Interesting. Yeah, I'm just thinking about what you're saying, and first off, you haven't paid off the 103 yet, right? So you haven't allowed yourself to go through that process. I'm one, I'm a person that I think everything is in the process. The first time it took you about 11 months. The truth is that debt wasn't that drastic. It probably was uncomfortable to pay it off, but you were able to do it. I think now because more is on the line and you're going to feel this one a lot more because it's you, it's your wife, it's your kids, and you're going to have to change your lifestyle, which you're going to feel that. I have a feeling that this one is going to stick a little bit more. However, you asked what's the mind? mindset that you need. And I think I hear the mindset that got you into it. And I'll try to give you

Starting point is 00:41:49 an idea of the mindset that got you out that's going to keep you out, which is, I think, Dayton, a lot of times when we're in our life and we've got our money, we start to develop kind of an I deserve mentality. And it's not, it doesn't have to be ugly. It's just kind of like, I work hard. I deserve to spend, right? I deserve to spend money on the things that I want. I deserve to have the lifestyle I want. I deserve to have the car in the house I want. After all, I've worked hard. And if we're not careful, that can really, really, really do us in. Because that's what's happened to you. You listed it. You're like, well, we had kids. And then I wanted this career. And then I wanted this house. And it's kind of like, what other thing would cause you to go into debt

Starting point is 00:42:32 other than the fact that you think you simply deserve to have those things, right? I mean, is that fair enough? Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. And then the other side of that, I deserve. is you're also seeing what other people have. And it's like, well, how do they deserve that? I deserve what they have because the people around me have the house. The people around me have the car. And so you're making that comparison and you're trying to keep up with the things you see.

Starting point is 00:42:54 Is that fair enough? Yeah, yeah, to a degree. I mean, like, I never, we don't buy any nice cars. We don't have any car payments or anything like that. It's been, but yeah, totally lifestyle, like wanting to do things with the kids, wanting to make sure they got a nice space, pretty place, you know, that kind of stuff.

Starting point is 00:43:10 And so I think the mentality going, out of it. And don't get me wrong, I think coming out of $103,000 of debt is going to change you in a different way than coming out of $22,000 of debt is. But I want you to adapt the mentality of what you truly deserve, which is you truly deserve to have a good night's sleep without debt over your shoulder, right? Ding, ding, ding. You deserve to feel good about the money that you earn and that it's enough for your family and not feel like it's not, you know, because the opposite is what makes you go out to get debt. The opposite is what I'm contributing is not enough. What I'm bringing and earning is not enough. Therefore, I must. And then you go to all these

Starting point is 00:43:49 debt sources. But you deserve to feel good about the life you're providing for your family. Yeah. Dayton, I want to flip that. She's right. But let's just for a second, let's be real gut level honest with each other, the three of us. What are the emotions you're feeling? The negative emotions attach to this debt and those debt payments and that interest and all the things that you now obviously regret, which is why you called today. And you said, how do I keep from doing this again what is the most negative emotion describe it uh well i would say like mass amounts of shame because i was in a good position and i've made good money for a lot of years um and i'm back to making good money now and it was a lot of shame to like look at the

Starting point is 00:44:29 finances i knew they were getting out of hand but i literally like every time i think to open up the banking app or do my budget my immediate thing is like oh don't do that man like you're You're just looking, look in your failure in the face, right? So that would have been, that's how it got out of hand for sure. How much stress? How much pressure do you feel? Oh, lots. Like, especially now looking at my new two-month-old baby and, like, thinking, like,

Starting point is 00:44:55 because I'm the sole income earner in our family. My, thankfully, my job allows for that. But what if I told you, I would get hurt? What if I told you I could snap my fingers and take away the shame and take away the stress? Well, how would you react to that? I know it's a fantastical question. But how would you feel? How would you feel?

Starting point is 00:45:12 I know it would make me feel a lot better, that's for sure, if I'm not carrying that baggage around, right? Okay. So my two cents on this is the way that you keep from ever doing this again is to, in these moments on a daily basis, remind yourself how awful this feels. And I don't ever want to feel that again. Like that, to me, if you talk to somebody who's lost a ton of weight,

Starting point is 00:45:37 somebody who beats some type of an addiction, and I've been able to interview people like this. I know people my personal life. If you trace their story of when they recovery, you know, we've heard Dave say this for years on this show and on stages. It's the I had it moment. You know, you've talked about that. You talked about it earlier in the show today.

Starting point is 00:45:54 I think you have to bottle this emotion not to stay with it. And I really want you to focus on getting out of that shame because we all carry shame and it's powerful. But I do think you need to sit with it long enough to go, I don't ever want to feel this again. and it's actually really simple to never get back in this again. You can get out of it, you've done it before you're going to do it this time.

Starting point is 00:46:16 But to never get back in it, he goes, I don't ever want to feel that again. And I have total control as to whether or not I ever feel this way again. And I think that will be really helpful. So get your chin up, walk the baby steps, you can do this, throw off that coat of shame. You're not a deadbeat. You're not a jerk. You're not a loser. You're not a bad man.

Starting point is 00:46:36 You made a bad financial decision. Welcome to the club pal. You're going to be okay. All right, all right. Can you know, when we hear calls like that one where people are dealing with guilt and shame, it kind of, it is important to know the difference, right? When we feel guilt with our money, it's generally kind of like that second stage of buyer's remorse or remorse where

Starting point is 00:47:10 like man I wish I hadn't had done that you know and it feels guilty especially if it's affecting our loved ones it's not just us now our kids are affected now our spouse is affected that's really where we feel a large amount of guilt but when it crosses that barrier Ken of it's not just

Starting point is 00:47:26 this thing I did but now I am the mistake and I'm wearing that mistake as an identity that's when we get into shame and that's why that call is tough because if you're wearing that identity, I am the mistake. I'm the reason we're not getting ahead. I'm the reason that our finances are bad. Then yeah, going forward, how could you trust yourself? Because in your

Starting point is 00:47:48 mind, you've personified yourself as a failure. It would be very hard to trust your decisions going forward. And so these are the types of things I talk about in my new book that's out now. It's story, story, story, story, story, story, what no one tells you about money is just a sort of thing. no one tells you that there is such an emotional struggle going through. Because with that last caller, he understands the baby steps. He's done it before. He knows that, yeah, you got a list of that smallest to largest. But what's blocking him is his emotion.

Starting point is 00:48:17 What's blocking him is the shame and the guilt that he's feeling over past mistakes. And he's just the sort of person who needs what no one tells you about money, because I actually walk people through how to get past that. That was something that Sam and I dealt with during our money battle. I know for Sam, there was a lot of shame because most of the stories, student loans came from his end of the equation. And so for him, it was, I'm the reason we can't get ahead. And, you know, that aggression can't stand. You have to learn how to forgive yourself and walk through that because until you forgive yourself, you really cannot go forward.

Starting point is 00:48:50 And I'm glad you mentioned it. We're so excited, Jade's new book, what no one tells you about money is now available for pre-sale. And I love this. We were talking about this earlier. This is not, you know, just some, another money book. This is real story. from her journey. She and her husband Sam paid off over a $500,000 worth of debt and she focuses on the emotional side of money. That's the idea.

Starting point is 00:49:13 What no one tells you about money is what? That it's really, really tough emotionally. Even though we give you a tried and true process of the baby steps, that does not mean that you aren't going to have those rough days where you want to quit, where you feel frustrated, like you can't ever get there. It works for everybody else.

Starting point is 00:49:34 else, Dave, but it ain't working for me, Jade. The plan's only 50% of the equation. I mean, the logic, we can all look at the baby something to go, yeah, that's logical. That makes sense. Feels practical. But when you start doing it, Ken, is a whole different story. You get waylaid by a whole slew of things that you might be feeling, whether it's frustration, whether you're angry at the system or your mom and dad, or whether you're like the last call or you're feeling a lot of guilt and shame, or maybe you're just caught up in like self-pity. Well, Well, I'm going to tell you, if that was me and I wanted to be coached up by somebody who'd actually walk to walk and doesn't just talk to talk, it'd be Jay. Could you imagine Jay training

Starting point is 00:50:12 you? Could you imagine? She runs marathons. I mean, look at the guns on the book cover. If you're not watching the show today, you've got to go to ramsysolutions.com slash store you can see. She's got the guns out, folks. Did you do push-ups before that photo shoot? I ran a marathon before that photo shoot. I was in tip-top shape, Ken. I got to tell you. Still am. My next book cover, I might go. sleeveless. We'll see how that goes. I don't know. I'll let you borrow the tank top, Ken. That would look good. Your belly button's going to be showing. That's not a good look for middle age guys. Not a good look. Nobody wants to see that. But hey, if you want to get the book,

Starting point is 00:50:48 Ramsey Solutions.com slash store. Pre-order now. Yes. Pre-order and you get $100 plus in free bonus items. And you want to get it now. It's the best deal in the book. 24-99. You're doing a book club. If you pre-order, you get a free slot in my book club. It's three weeks, and we're going through it chapter by chapter. Can I get a friend connection on this? Or do I have to buy your book, or can I get a friend spot in the book club? No, can you got to buy the book? Come on, that's just you being a good friend.

Starting point is 00:51:22 That's a good point. You know? I just exposed myself as being cheap. You know what's going on? I'm starting to act like George. That's a question George would ask because he doesn't want to spend any money. What am I doing? I'm better than that.

Starting point is 00:51:33 Let me tell you what I'm going to do. I'll get it. I'll get it. I'm pre-ording. I'm buying a copy of my own book today. You are? Yes. That's part of it. If I don't buy a copy of my own book,

Starting point is 00:51:44 why can I expect anybody else to buy one can? All right. Well, I'm very excited for you. You're going to get some free bonus items. I wanted to tell you that. That's right. Ramsey Solutions. Ramsey Solutions.com slash store.

Starting point is 00:51:55 Great book, by the way. There's no money book like this on the planet. It doesn't exist. I looked. So go get. Yes, you did. Brett is up in Charlotte, North Carolina. Brett, how can we help?

Starting point is 00:52:06 Hey, I got a pretty difficult decision to make here in the next 24 hours or so. So I was hoping to get some advice on what I should do. All right. So Wednesday, our team, everybody on our team was told that our team was being eliminated, and everybody was being laid off. Oh, my. Effective today. But they've come back with two seventh options,

Starting point is 00:52:29 and I'm having a tough time picking between. the two. Okay, give us number one. The number one is I remain on the company payroll for 60 days. I get my normal check. I have health insurance. All the deductions are normal. Everything stays the same. I just don't have any work responsibilities. The catch to that is that if I become employed any time during that 60 days, it stops. Okay. So I have to let them know and any further benefits, you know, or pay will cease. So the other option is they'll give me 45 days of salary,

Starting point is 00:53:09 and the separation is effective immediately. Like when the money is deposited, but they want some at the end of the relationship, and so there's no health insurance or no further benefits whatsoever. So one is all at once, and the other one is over the course of the 60 days? Correct. How does the, for the 45 days, how does that work with insurance?

Starting point is 00:53:31 Because that has to play out over time. Like with the benefits? Yeah, I asked about that. The insurance stops, you know, pretty much the day the lump sum of the positive. Oh. So no insurance. I think that's a no-brainer for me. Okay.

Starting point is 00:53:48 Which way are you leaning? I'm leaning towards the 60 days because my thought is for, if you wanted to, if you, let's pretend you got a, you know, you start looking for a job immediately and let's pretend in the next two to three weeks you land something, you could easily say, here's my start date that I'd like to start. If you felt like your previous job was paying more or there was something beneficial that you were getting from having that additional 60 days play out, or let's say you land a job in the next three weeks, you get paid more, the benefits are better, who cares if this has to turn off? You're in a new job now. Yeah, I, that's the question.

Starting point is 00:54:26 I have, and this may be an unfair question, and if it is, just say, Ken, I don't know, and I get it. Do you have any sense of your ability to land somewhere else fairly quickly? Yeah, I don't know. What do you do? I'm an IP project manager. Okay. Given that, you've got to make a decision pretty quick.

Starting point is 00:54:48 I'm with Jade. I'm leaning towards option one because that gives you 60 days as normal. It gives you two months where life is normal. It's already awful enough what you've experienced. And I want to point this out so that you sit with this. We know from psychology studies that losing a job, even being laid off where you didn't do anything wrong, you're part of a massive deal, it is the same emotional equivalent as losing a loved one. So you need to grieve this and know that this is hard. And for that reason, I think I'm going to take the 60 days.

Starting point is 00:55:22 I know I got two months more of normalcy in the midst of a lot of grief and confusion and fear and all the stress, right? And if I get another job and it stops, that's fine because we're talking about a Band-Aid situation at most. So I'm with Jade on that. I think I'd take stability, but I would act as though you got nothing coming in.

Starting point is 00:55:42 That's right. Starting tomorrow. Actually, starting today. You know what I mean? Like, I tell the whole world, I just got laid off. There's no shame in that game, by the way. That happens all the time.

Starting point is 00:55:52 And what's to say you don't get something better, you know? Yeah, so I'd act as though nothing's coming in, starting now, and I think that's what I would do. But so sorry, but you're going to be okay. But I'm going to tell you something. And I'm not saying this is you, but I've coached thousands of people in my time here at Ramsey on this particular issue. And there is this temptation to feel so bad for yourself that you just get stuck in this rut of, well, nothing's really working. No, I mean, you act as if you are starving and you're thrown out on the street. That's the response.

Starting point is 00:56:40 Our question of the day is sponsored by YREFI. You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default, but life does happen and YREFI isn't going to shame you over this. They're actually going to help you explore real plain. to get back on track. All you got to do is go to yrefi.com slash Ramsey to find out more. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. It's not available in all states. That's right. Today's question comes from Kelly in Colorado. She says, my debt, my only debt is $16,000 on a car loan. And then I have about $16,000 in savings. So I have my emergency fund built up. The only thing is I'm scared to death to pay off

Starting point is 00:57:21 this car loan because my husband and I would like to potentially look into buying a home. I'm truly scared that if we were to do something like that, something else would pop up. I don't know if I should build up a little bit more money and then tackle it or do it now. Okay. So first, Kelly, let's just, I'll give you both sides of it. Let's talk about the baby step side of it and then we'll talk about the emotional side. So Kelly, the baby steps would tell you that if you have debt, you're in baby step two, all right? You've got, you know, baby step one, obviously you put $1,000 aside. You got that.

Starting point is 00:57:55 You got $16,000. But the baby steps say you're supposed to take everything else aside from the $1,000 and put it on the car and paid off. So essentially, you'd be paying $15,000 on the car if you were really following the steps to a T. And then after that, yeah, you would save up three to six months. And then, and only then, Kelly, would you then start to save up for your down payment for this house? Now, that's a timeline. That's, this is not going to happen overnight, right? this is going to be something that's going to take an extended period of time.

Starting point is 00:58:25 So that's when we start getting into the emotional side of this. Whereas Ken and I, we could just tell you, Kelly, here's the steps. Do it. But the truth is you're going to feel some emotion around that. Number one, you're going to feel the fear of getting rid of your savings because that is a security blanket to you. You feel that. At night, you probably check your bank account balance just to make sure it's still there, right?

Starting point is 00:58:47 It feels good to have $16,000 off to the side. then there's the part of oh my gosh jade you're telling me that i have to do all of those other things before i buy this house i want to do it much sooner than that and so there's a little bit of an emotional pill to swallow there when you realize wait a second the thing i thought i was going to maybe be able to do in the next 12 months is actually maybe going to take me closer to 48 months or possibly even longer so i just want to take a moment and validate that that is absolutely real and there's part of this where we're asking you, Kelly, to do something that you've never done before and possibly never even seen done before. And there's a lot of fear in that unknown, Ken.

Starting point is 00:59:29 Yeah, yeah. Speaking of things that never been seen before, earlier in the show, I was talking about how in a future book, I might like to, let me see your book. And by the way, if you're watching, and by the way, if you're in the lobby and you want to see something special, move back to that screen back there, you're about ready to see something really special. This is Jade's new book. Of course, we've been talking about it, what no one tells you about money. And I was talking to her earlier about, look at her guns. And, you know, she's been working out, training for a marathon, all the things. And then I said, maybe my next book, when has it become socially acceptable for a guy to wear a sleeveless shirt on something, you know, formal? And so James

Starting point is 01:00:09 Childs, being the genius that he is and the crack team back there behind the glass, went to chat GPT, and put me in your tank top on your new book cover. Let's show the audience. Oh, Ken. There it is, folks. I mean, look at those guns. Listen, the guns are out. Face is a little warped, but the left arm looks a little stronger.

Starting point is 01:00:34 You have a strange way of showing your excitement for my book, Ken. The teeth looked fantastic. Your teeth looked great. So it's just fascinating how socially acceptable. it is for women to be sleeveless. And you all look lovely. We see it all the time. Yeah. TV, out in the town. But a guy, a guy goes sleeveless and you either look like a wannabe or a try too hard. Yeah. That's true. Or white trash. Listen. So there you go. It's, you know. I don't know why that is. Well. So anyway, I'm sending that to Dave to see what he thinks about a future

Starting point is 01:01:11 book cover. See what he thinks about that. I'm pretty sure the answer is. It's going to you know. Hard pass. Hard pass. You sent that picture to Sam, your husband, and his reply was hilarious. What did he say? He was like, this is deeply disturbing. So good stuff. You need to keep those weapons concealed. They're going to stay concealed, folks. These babies are dangerous at all 50 states. Listen, I don't want to say. I think that picture might have done you a few favors, Ken Coleman. I'm happily married, happily married. Elliot is up in Idaho. Elliot, how can we help? Um, so me and my life just found out we were pregnant like three weeks ago. Congratulations.

Starting point is 01:01:54 Thanks. And I'm trying to figure out how much we need to save up in the nine months to be able to pay for it all outright. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me where you are in the baby steps. Is there debt? Is there not debt? Tell me where you're out. Yeah, we have a car payment of 5,100. And that is. about it. Wow, $5,100 for the car payment? Yeah. No, no. You mean the total. Is that the total amount? Yeah, total. That was the total amount of what we have left. Got you, got you. Yeah, the way you said that, America just all did a collective gas. I know, that's right. And that's it? Just the car? Yeah, just the car. Okay. What do you guys earn? Combined a little less than $60,000. Okay, good. So yeah, during this time,

Starting point is 01:02:40 we kind of call this stork mode, which is basically you're pausing. any real financial traction that you're making to save up every dime that you have you're saving that up so that when this baby comes just in case if you need the money it's there now obviously I hope that everything goes off without a hitch but it is nice to have that money there because many times you do hit the deductible and it's nice to at least at the very least have that insurance deductible there so that you know you're not having to come out of pocket last minute for that do you know what yours is um i believe that deductible is 2 500 okay and is that the same as your out-of-pocket max for the year um out-of-pocket is 6500 6500 so if i were you that probably

Starting point is 01:03:27 be somewhere in between those two numbers would be my goal over the next nine months to save up um and then the good news is let's say you save up the whole 6500 the good news is once the baby's born everything's good. Mom's home, baby's home. You can take that whole amount, throw it towards the car, pay it off just like that, and you got a little something, something to start your three to six months off on the right track. Okay. Make sense? Yeah. Good, good. Let that sink in. All right, there you go. All right, let's talk about the emotions. Okay. Nice segue, Ken. Just slap it right in there. Let's go. Let's talk about the emotions of bringing a child into the world you're in the baby steps right and this was a very specific question

Starting point is 01:04:14 but just in general it's been a while right but i'm thinking back i know you've done it you know there's something happens and how do we manage that natural fear of oh my gosh i now have to take care of somebody more than just me and my wife because i remember stacey and i it's like i never felt like okay i've got to take care of stacey because she was working and i was working now i know know, you know, obviously we're married. But it's like we were both working, double income, no kids. And the moment when a child comes in, I know as a dude, I feel like the provider muscle starts to flare a little bit more.

Starting point is 01:04:50 So A, what you think the common emotion is and B, how do we make sure we don't overreact and stay calm? I think, obviously, depending on the person, it's going to be different, I know for me, I can speak from my personal opinion and just personal experience. for me it was kind of twofold the idea of bringing a child into the world and then we had this half a million dollars of debt for me it was a wake-up call of i am in a i am in a current state of struggle and financial trauma i was like i can't bring a child into this i have to get my act together sam we have to get our act together we've got to create stability so for us it was like a

Starting point is 01:05:27 lighting a fire under our butt and then there's also kind of the historical framework so you think about what was money like when you were a child? How did you feel? Did you feel like it was a scarcity mentality? Did you feel like it was abundant? Did you feel? And all of that plays into the moment when you find out we're pregnant. And if you're not careful, it can freeze you dead in your tracks or you can take that and it can be just the catalyst that you need to get you moving and in the right direction, possibly for the first time ever. And so that's exactly the type of thing I'm talking about and what no one tells you about money, how to convert those emotions into fuel to actually help you win. all the things. But I think what's really cool is is the real-time help. That's right.

Starting point is 01:06:35 Talk about that. You're in the weeds. Oh, real time. I think the best thing is, yeah, the coaching, the coaching aspect. Not only does it create a plan that's customized for you, but we also have coaching. There's free one-on-one coaching that you can get involved in. There's group coaching that you can get involved in. We do webinars once a month so you can get help from real people. Yes, there's the digital component, but there's also the human component. And I think that's the best of both world's baby. Get every dollar for free today in the app store or Google Play and it really is fantastic. I mean, the way I like to describe it is if you've ever been familiar or been a part of or led Financial Peace University, imagine that digital on steroids to the nines. It's like having

Starting point is 01:07:16 one of the personalities in your pocket, like having Ken or I, Ken in your right side pocket, Jade in your left side pocket. I don't know. That's scary. I was getting ready to say I thought everything was good until that. I think now everybody ran for the hills when you told them I might be in their pocket. We'll let that one go. Trevor's up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. I've been there before. Have you ever been in the Sioux Falls? I have not. It's gorgeous. Falls run right through the town. Trevor is there. Trevor, how can we help? Hey guys. My father-in-law wants to gift me his portion of a family business, and I don't know that I want to be partners with the rest of his family without him involved. I don't want to be unappreciative. Yeah. Sure.

Starting point is 01:07:59 So don't do it. Do you already work in the family business? So I manage it. Okay. And how long have you been part of it? This is my fourth year. Oh, boy. And what's his stake? What percentage is he offering you?

Starting point is 01:08:18 He has 25% of it. Who are the other family members once he's out? His parents and his brother. And you work with these folks for four years? you've been behind the curtain and you don't want it I mean ideally at some point I don't know the whole thing but I don't know that I want to be involved right and you know your reasons

Starting point is 01:08:46 yeah and because it's family I'm not going to ask you to list them because you're calling into the show but I guess my point is that's everything I need to know because you it'd be one thing if if you called and you didn't work in the business and maybe you were just adjacent and you just knew very little, I think I'd be the one that would go, you know what I would do? I would at least go kick the tires, ask a lot of questions. But the fact that you've been running the business for four years tells me you have enough evidence and I don't even need to know your reasons why. And I think in this case you've got to honor your gut. Does that? You got any head checks on that?

Starting point is 01:09:24 It does. I do have more questions just based on two things you said. Go. Number one is you said, I wouldn't want to be in there in it without him. So I wondered, what is it about your father-in-law that you feel like that brings kind of like stability to the chaos? Well, I know he's got my best interests in mind. And he's able to kind of push things. Like, if we need to make a change of something, he's kind of able to kind of get it pushed past his family, I guess. So he's kind of an ally? He's an ally, and he kind of knows how to navigate the BS.

Starting point is 01:10:00 What position is he in right now, or has he been in? He's recently retired, so he's gotten more involved, but he just kind of helps with the day-to-day stuff as far as just... Okay, but I guess my point is, so your position is what? What's your title? So I'm the manager. so I'm kind of in charge of everything I guess. Okay, who's above you? Who do you report to?

Starting point is 01:10:35 Basically, I report to my father-in-law. Got it. But father-in-law's out. Once he's gone, who do you refer to? Who does he report to? If he helps get things pushed through, it implies that there's somebody above him. Who is that? Well, his parents own 50% of it, so I guess they would be the...

Starting point is 01:10:51 Okay, that's 50. He's offering you 25. Where's the other 25? The brother. Is he involved in the business? Yeah, he used to be the manager before I got involved. So two other questions then. First question is the parents, they've got to be aging, right?

Starting point is 01:11:10 Yeah. So what happens to their cut when they leave and when are they leaving? It's supposed to be split between my father-in-law and his brother. So you would get another 25%. So essentially at the end, end of the day, be you owning 50% and the brother owning 50%? Is that right? Yeah. Okay. Then my next question is, what's the business worth? Um, it's probably over a million dollars. Huh, I was hoping for more. Okay. Are you, do you have a, um, okay, I have two quick questions. One, is it part of

Starting point is 01:11:49 your plan to, if I say no now, and I just keep doing a good job running the, business that once grandparents are gone and uncle and father-in-law are in charge and once they age out that you just inherit it all at that point you go sure I want it then but only then is that where your head is at or do you have another play outside of this um yeah I mean that's yeah what his parents it says parents weren't involved and you're the uncle and the uncle yeah I guess that would be

Starting point is 01:12:29 right but that's a long time from now at best I mean his parents are in their 80s no I know but we got to go through another lawyer did you mention this to your father-in-law

Starting point is 01:12:42 that you would do it if he were involved but have you told him this is my question I've kind of it's been I mean we've been talking about this a little bit so I've kind of brought it up that I don't really want to be involved without him and is there pressure from him for you to stay involved or is he go totally get it young man i appreciate that um yeah a little bit i i gave you too i need you tell me

Starting point is 01:13:08 this continue but he doesn't he's he doesn't want to have to i think he's getting kind of sick of dealing with his family yeah but i mean is he pressuring you to stay in it or is he saying if you don't want it that's totally fine that's what i'm asking a or b he's not really pressure in me but I mean he knows that I want to be in this long term I guess so you do want to stay in the business long term I do yeah I just is there a world where is there okay so parents they're getting older you got to I got to believe they're going to age out of this in the next five to ten years is there a world you said they're 80 in their 80s now yeah maybe even sooner I mean only you know that but is there a world where once the parents come out

Starting point is 01:13:53 and you're 50-50 with the brother-in-law, is there a world where you could then buy the brother-in-law out financially? Are you in the position to be able to do that so you can get to a position of ownership faster? I'm not really a financial position to do that. Got it. And are you okay working with the uncle? No.

Starting point is 01:14:15 I prefer not to know. Okay, so I got to tell you something. I don't think this is worth the weight for you because it feels like the uncle's going to be in charge for a good while. Yes? Yeah. Okay, then. How old are you? 30. Okay. You know what? I think,

Starting point is 01:14:31 I'm not telling you to do this, but this is under the, this is what Ken would do. I'm not saying this is what you should do, okay? What I would do is I would tell everybody. You've already told father-in-law, I'd tell uncle-in-law, I'd tell grandma, granddaddy, whatever you call them. I love you guys. I'm going to go out. I'm going to go a different path. I'm out. And here's why. Once you go do your own thing, and the reason I'm telling you to do your own thing, whatever that is, you go work for somebody else, you go, whatever. You just leave

Starting point is 01:15:02 the business because you don't want to work with these people. You've already determined that. And you certainly don't want to wait as long as it's going to take for you to get the chance to run it. So go do your own thing, and here's what's going to happen. At some point, when uncle's ready, he's got to figure out what he's going to do. And you're probably the best candidate anyway. and so you're a young man, you're 30, I believe you said, I would go another direction and let it come back to me. I know Jade's got something here. I'm with that.

Starting point is 01:15:29 I agree with Ken. I would not stick in it. I have nothing more to add to this. Yeah, I mean, go west, young man. I think it'll come back to you. But waiting for this is not a good option and stepping into something you know you don't want to do isn't a good option. So that means there's a far better one somewhere else and I'd take it.

Starting point is 01:15:50 Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw, is alongside Colleen. Colleen is up in Calgary, Alberta. And let's go to Colleen. Colleen, how are you doing today? Hi, thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up?

Starting point is 01:16:13 So my question is I've been listening for a couple months, and it must be a basic question, but I can't wrap my head around it. So my husband and I, we use our credit cards basically for everything, but we do pay it off every month. We've never carried a balance. I'm really interested in switching to cash only. And my question is, how do you do that so that you'd actually have money left over that you could last the rest of the month to then switch to cash?

Starting point is 01:16:42 Yeah. So you're kind of, you're a month behind, essentially, because... Just the sole way that they work, you're always like, kind of... of a month paying a month late yeah so the best way to do this is to to do the budget first like let's do a budget first and let's get in our mind what we honestly need for a month not going over not depending on a you know a line of credit just what does it take for our household to run realistically have you done that yet uh no we haven't i've been on my husband to get started with that though yeah so okay before we get off the call we'll make sure that christian gives you

Starting point is 01:17:20 the all new every dollar so that you guys tonight can make that first budget because then you're going to have a starting place of knowing, okay, we need $5,000 a month or we need $6,000, whatever that is. And then from there, I want to ask, do you happen to have any money saved? Yeah, we do. Like, we could pay it off with our savings. Like, we have a savings. We could pay it off. Okay. So what's on the credit card now? I'm wondering in general. Yeah, we could do that for sure so what's tell me real numbers what's on the credit card now and how much do you have saved oh we have probably at least like 30,000 in a savings account that we could just pay it off and how much is on the card oh probably our cards right now are only maybe like five grand okay great we could we could

Starting point is 01:18:10 pay it I was just not maybe wanting to take it from there and pay it off and instead just make that switch. Well, I'm going to repeat back what you wanted to do, which is you told me that you wanted to stop using the credit cards for monthly payments and just use your money. And then you agreed with me that you're essentially a month behind because that's the way credit cards work. So the only way to get in front of it is to pay off the existing debt. Well, the first step I told you is to make a budget so you know how much money you even need for the next month to month budget. Then the second step is now we have to get even. We have to get to zero because we have to pay off the debt. So that's the next thing. You're going to reach over from that 30,000, pay off the debt, and then you're going to be at ground zero. And then now you have the budget going into the month of November and you say, okay, here's our budget. Now we just use our money that we're going to get paid. That's how this works. Now we can get into the gears of how to set a budget if you want to do that. But that's the first three steps to accomplish what you said you wanted to do. yeah no I have no doubt that we could live off of like our income and what we make so I guess it is just a matter of getting it paid off so that we're at kind of starting point with no like no debt with credit card and then just go from there with the budget now if you have I don't know what your income is what's your income because if you can cash flow both I'm fine with that if you're like hey jade I actually make enough this month that I could pay off the credit card and have enough to float November's budget

Starting point is 01:19:45 that'd be pretty awesome too. What do you make? So yearly combined with my husband, we're probably around 190. Okay. What does that break down every month? What is, what do you actually bring home? This is why we need the budget. Yeah, I'm trying to think. Probably like 10 to 12,000. Okay. So there could, there could be a world where you can cash flow. most of this and dip into savings very little. I'm just not sure because I haven't seen your budget. There could be things that are stopping you from it. Yeah, for sure. That makes sense.

Starting point is 01:20:27 The answer is super easy, right? I mean, she, listen, Jade gave you the tactical stuff, but again, I'm going to tell you something, you're going to have to realize that you're making a major change from being responsible. I think you're responsible. You're obviously responsible, okay but there's a difference jay between being responsible and being strategic that's right and strategy is what we teach and and so the idea here is is that when you know what's in your budget and you know where the money's going and you're telling the money what to do and it's doing something for you now you're so much further ahead so it's just a simple do exactly what she said but then to get to the next level of we're not just using credit cards as some loosey-goosey

Starting point is 01:21:10 backup and we get these benefits we're actually being strategic to win with our money. That's a big difference. I agree. So are you going to do it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm 100% on board and I do think it'll make us a lot more conscious of what we're spending our money on instead of just like swipe the card and pay for whatever. That's right. Yeah. And I was going to say, let me give you just a little nuts and bolts thing on the budget. I don't know when you get paid, but most people get paid twice a month. Usually like on the the 15th and the 30th, right? It's kind of normal?

Starting point is 01:21:45 Yeah, that's his and I'm bi-weekly. Okay. So just a little nuts and bolts thing. Generally, when you're getting on a budget for the first time, the check from the 30th is going to go towards the next month. So for instance, if you got paid yesterday, that check technically should go towards November. So your paychecks that you're budgeting for for the current month

Starting point is 01:22:08 are from the 30th of the previous month. So the 30th of October will go for your October budget or for your November budget and your November 15th paycheck will be on your November budget. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, it does. So instead we're just kind of paying for things before instead of after. Yes, that way you always have the money to pay for what you need all 30 days of the month because if you let that October 30th check go for October, well, the month's already over,

Starting point is 01:22:37 everything's going to be late. So that's just a little tip. A lot of people get hung up on that. okay awesome no that sounds really good all right thank you for the call kaleen yeah there's a lot of people we get this question a lot and it's always fun for people if i'll meet somebody and then they find out i work at ramsie solutions and they'll be like okay hey so okay by the way is it got to question it always drops down yeah do you know what's like it's not a cigarette okay so let me let me just let me just ask like what's what's the problem with just you know we pay everything

Starting point is 01:23:06 and we pay it off you know and it's it's really fun how that happens and it's it's really fun how that But again, it's less about, I think sometimes we get painted with this brush here at Ramsey's that we're just anti-everything. And we're not. Right. You know what I mean? It's we're for your money winning. Yes. And we want you to feel good about it. We want you to feel like you're the one in control. We don't want you to do the things that we teach because Jaden Kins said so. Yeah, right. We want you to do it because it makes sense to you. You like the idea of peace. You like the idea of freedom and being in control of your money and with your emotions as well. Yeah, it's, it is always funny to me when somebody goes, okay, I think I get it.

Starting point is 01:23:47 And by the way, this call is a great example, by the way, of realizing, oh, this isn't just anti-credit card. There's a bigger strategy at play. Oh, yeah. And she's beginning to see it. And the light bulb goes off there as she says, I can see how this is going to help us when we know where our money is and we're going to be even more strategic, more responsible. Yes.

Starting point is 01:24:08 Cash does that. And I liked her call because I actually talk about that in the book What No One Tells You About Money, I go through each baby step and I say what it is and then I say what it actually feels like and what it actually means. And it's juicy. It's juicy. Let me tell you. I'm telling you the raw and the real.

Starting point is 01:24:26 I don't hold back. All right. All right. real quick. Everybody needs it. But you may not need as much as you think or you may have too much. And you need to find somebody who's a pro. Not somebody who's looking to make a buck off of you, but people who know their stuff want to take care of you. And you can do that with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro. You're not going to have to deal with all the sleazy, slimy, slimy sales crap and know that we've vetted these folks to make sure that they're market experts who are

Starting point is 01:25:02 going to take care of you. Ramsey Solutions.com slash coverage is where you go. Ramsey Solutions.com slash coverage. Let's go to Matt in Charleston, South Carolina. Matt, how can we help today? Hey, how are you doing today? We're doing great. What's going on? So, I recently came into some lottery money. Whoa. That's juicy. Let's not just, let's not roll right by that. How much did we win, sir? So we won right at 200 after taxes. It was 350 and they took $200.200 is what you take home. Yeah Okay

Starting point is 01:25:38 Wow Was that state lottery Yeah it was a state Kind of a second chance thing They do Wow That's something Okay

Starting point is 01:25:47 You know what I've never had anybody on the show Can I ask one quick follow up I've never taken a lottery call on this show Was this a random I'm in the grocery store Or I'm at the gas station And I see the ticker

Starting point is 01:25:59 And I go I'm gonna shoot my shot Or is this Are you like a guy who played it all the time Well I was was a guy that played it all the time when this when this kind of happened um i sent stopped playing but like i said it was a second chance so you can't a ticket and they put your name in a hat for a second chance and they luckily drew my name wow that's so funny okay all right so to the reason you called

Starting point is 01:26:24 what what's your question all right so um prior to this i was very uh not financially savvy like I was credit card debt, student debt, personal loans, essentially I was working week to week and going down to zero or sometimes negative in my account. So with this, my plan is to go ahead and pay off all of my debt, which is about $30,000 and potentially put a down payment on a house. My wife's car just broke down to potentially get her a new car, but what I don't want to do is mess it up and get back to where I was a month ago week to week to week. week, being down to zero in my account.

Starting point is 01:27:06 Well, let's talk about that first. Let's talk about that, because you got Jade here to walk you through this. Describe for her what you think was the cause of you being week to week, never having enough there, because that wasn't that long ago. So presumably, we haven't solved what was going on. So describe what you think is the source of that? I think I got credit cards. in the mail, and I was like, okay, I can use those, and I just started overspending and not paying

Starting point is 01:27:36 attention to my spending. Okay. And then, you know, I had other deaths that I just kind of just kept piling on. I just was not being responsible. Understood. What's your income? I make about 105 a year. Woo. Okay. So it's not like you're scrapping. And is it just you, or is there a wife, kids, anything? I just married my wife two weeks ago, and then we have three kids. kids. Okay. And does she work outside the house? Yeah, she does work. What she make? Um, roughly 40. Okay. So you guys have been separate, but. Okay, but they're coming together. Um, I think the key here is you've got to look at what you're bringing home every single month. You've got to look at what you have to spend. What's your margin? And you've got to just give

Starting point is 01:28:27 every dollar an assignment. And then that's the practical part. But then the emotional part of actually sticking to it, Ken, is what's going to be your struggle. Because if you set out and say, hey, we're only spending $150 on restaurants and you write that on paper, now it's your chance to say, am I going to be the person that keeps the promises to myself? Or am I going to be a person that flakes out every single time? Am I going to be a person that I can depend on? That I, I can depend on me to say what I say I'm going to do, I'm actually going to do. Or are you going to let your emotions lead you and go, well, I work hard. I deserve to go to Applebee's one more time, right? That's where the real battle starts. So I love that. He asked the question because you know

Starting point is 01:29:13 as much as Ken and I do know that the $200,000, that is a wonderful thing. You had some good luck, but that is not the solve of the problem. The solve of the problem is Matt deciding that he's going to be a guy who can look in the mirror and trust himself to do what he says he's going to do. And have a process for doing it. Yeah. In other words, if you say, hey, I want to get in shape, put on muscle, cut up, or I want to put on 15 pounds of muscle, or I want to lose 50 pounds of weight, you've got to have a process. You can't just say, I want it to happen, expect it to happen. Right.

Starting point is 01:29:47 You've got to have a process that is attached to a willingness to change. And so I'm going to start with the budget for you. You didn't know what was going on with any of your money. So let's take care of the man. Let's get him in every dollar. Let's get him in every dollar. And I think you need a give him, give me me, what does he do tonight with every dollar to change us around? Yep, tonight you sit down with your wife and you put all the numbers and you're going to put in what you guys earn.

Starting point is 01:30:13 You're going to pull up the HR website. You're going to look at your checkstubs after taxes. That's the number that you're going to put into the budget. Then you're going to go back and you're going to look at all your bank statements and you're going to put accurate numbers for, okay, we already know, yes, this is our cell phone payment, utilities. We know our mortgage or our rent payment. but what do we really spend on groceries? What do we really spend going out to eat? What do we really spend on gas? And you're going to plug those numbers in so you have an accurate picture of, okay, this is what it takes to run my lifestyle. And then you're going to say, okay, honey, we've got this money that's enough to break us free. It's going to give us a get out of jail free card on this debt, on the car, and it's even going to help us get a down payment.

Starting point is 01:30:53 But today, we look ourselves in the eye and say, but this is our real income, $150,000, and this is what we're going to be. we get to live on. And we have to be okay with that. We don't have to keep up with anybody else. It's just us. And you guys, you have to kind of, you know, decide that you're both going to do that and that you're both going to hold each other accountable because trust and believe there's going to be temptations, obviously. There's always another trip to take. There's always a better car to buy, right? There's always a nicer restaurant to eat at. But you have to be okay with what your lifestyle is. So don't squander this. And I don't think you will if you internalize what we're saying. Hang on the line. We're going to get you started in every dollar. Stay tuned into the show,

Starting point is 01:31:36 create some accountability to where you go. Okay, I'm now living this. I'm putting in new financial data into my head as opposed to living like everybody else. And let's talk about that for a minute, Ken. You talked about getting cut, working out, trying to get muscles, whatever the goal is. I'm trying to keep up with your book cover. Let's be. honest. You are likening it to getting on a plan with your money. And a lot of people forget that they've got to set themselves up for success. Because if you're trying to get ripped, do you want to know what you don't keep on the counter? Chips. Oreos. Halloween candy. Oh, boy. All right. Listen, I said that and there is a bowl of Halloween candy on my counter right now at home. Wait till I get the tax when I get

Starting point is 01:32:20 home. Let me tell you something. I take a tax on whatever Mrs. Coleman has bought for the little ones that are coming by tonight, Mr. Coleman takes a tax. Chef snack. That's a chef snack. I go through it all. I go, I'll have one of these. Thank you very much. But you know, if I cheat tonight on some candy, as I will, guess what? You got to pay for it later. I'll pay for it tomorrow. Oh, don't you pay for it. So you, A, you got to have a process. You know what you do? So the first thing you do is, I'm playing along with you. I'm going to go, all right,

Starting point is 01:32:48 I'm going to eat better. So I got to remove the junk, but I also got to put good stuff in my body. You got to put it there. And you got to have protein. You want to add muscle, you've got to have X amount of grams of protein. So it's not just what I eliminate frivolous spending. Yes. It is. Watch this. Instead of listening to everybody else who's broke, maybe I buy Jade Warshaw's book. Maybe I listen to The Ramsey Show two or three times a week or every day. I'm going to put good money practices, good money philosophy in as well. That's right. Make it accessible. In my body, in order that the workout, I get the maximum maximum out of it. I'm with you, Ken. That's what I'm saying. And make it easy. If I put

Starting point is 01:33:28 healthy food in the refrigerator, I put it at eye level so I can just grab it. It's the first thing I see. And it's the same thing with this. You need to be setting reminders in your phone to check your every dollar budget. You need to be doing the things that are right there at eye level. Put the podcast, let that be the first podcast that pops up. Stop, unfollow all of the ads and the things that are unsubscribe to all the things that are trying to sell you in your email and on social media and start following people like Ken Coleman. myself, set yourself up to succeed with money so that when the time comes, it's an easy choice. It's right there in front of you. You keep preaching like that. I might do an altar

Starting point is 01:34:04 call, have a baptismal service right in the studio. By the way, I have gone out to eat with this one and her husband, and she orders the cleanest stuff. Ain't no fun, folks. I try. All right, let's go to Megan in Spokane, Washington. Megan, how can we help today? Hi, thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up? I'm calling because I'm a single mom, and I'm in Baby Step 3B, and so I'm currently only saving up to my match in my retirement,

Starting point is 01:34:45 but I live in a really expensive area, and, you know, like don't want to move, really, because, like, It helps to have a lot of community when you're trying to raise a kid on your own. So, like, I'm trying to figure out if I were, like, if I were to really realistically try to buy a house under, like, the Ramsey guidelines, I would probably need, like, a $200,000 down payment with my current income. And that would take me, like, I'm saving very aggressively. I have a really good living situation right now, but it would take me still probably over five

Starting point is 01:35:21 years to do that. So I'm kind of wondering, like, it seems too long to pause my retirement, but then I'm going to be even saving longer if I wait, if I don't pause retirement. So, yeah, just kind of wondering what your guys have thought far about that. Like, if it would be smarter to pause my retirement and maybe just save what I can and give up having a house, or, like, it feels like it would provide a lot of security to have a house. You're correct. It does provide security to have a house. You do, I mean, that's the largest line item on your budget and to have that stabilized is a very, very, very important part of security and wealth building. So you're exactly right. You're also right on how tough it is

Starting point is 01:36:06 to save up a down payment because gone are the days where you can just say, oh, put 20% down and, you know, now you're right at 25% of your take home. That math is different now. So in order to make the payment, 25% of your take home, in many cases you're putting down well above 20%. In some cases, you're putting like 50 and 60% down in order to make that happen. That's just the reality. So for you, probably what I would do is I would go, when you're in Baby Step 3B, you do have the opportunity, you have the choice to say, I'm either going to kind of split and I'm going to do some investing and some saving for the down payment, or you can say, I'm just going to go ham on the down payment and get that done.

Starting point is 01:36:50 If I were in your shoes, I'd start there. I'd start on not investing. I'd start on everything going to the down payment. And then probably at the three-year mark is when I would say, okay, I have to start putting something into retirement. And I realize that's going to make me go slower. But hopefully by then, there's some change that's happened. Your income has gone up.

Starting point is 01:37:08 Maybe your life has changed in a way to where there's more income coming in. but I want to if you are here right now I'd be looking you dead in your eye and validating the fact that it is tough it's it's a longer timeline than what people are used to and it is a lot more money that must be put down on the front end than what people are used to but I would also tell you if it makes you feel any better for my husband and I we had a 10 year we had to wait 10 years to do our house mostly for wow yeah for us because we started out broke and we had to clean up debt. But time is time, right? And the biggest thing I can leave you with is when the day comes and you have the money and you put it down and you move in that house, it's all

Starting point is 01:37:56 going to have been worth it. I'd like to ask. Yeah, I love having a timeline on that. Like, that feels good to be like, okay. And I love that, I love that Jade acknowledge how tough this is in the current situation. But I'm going to push a little bit because I think sometimes there's there's more than one way and certainly waiting longer is fine it stinks to tell people that but just because it takes longer doesn't mean that it's still not the best decision and you've already got a good good living situation how much of a house are we talking about how much how much are we looking at how big is this house and what price point i mean i live in a tiny house right now so i'm definitely not looking for a big house like i'm living in a tiny house that i built and so i'm

Starting point is 01:38:41 Oh, an actual tiny house? Yeah, I built a tiny house when I was like five years ago. So I'm living in that house now, and I would be very happy with just even putting my tiny house on a piece of property. But I'm just having a hard time finding a property that I could even put it there. Well, tell us, though, but you've got a huge house. Right, but I just want to have some fun with the numbers for a minute. All right. So based on what you've told us, you've got a number in mind, correct?

Starting point is 01:39:08 A price point. Yeah, well, I'm thinking, like, the average houses in our area are between, like, like, around $400,000. Okay. And that's for, like, a pretty, like, a small, you know, house. Yeah, like how much, okay. So, so there's nothing in the $300,000 or $250,000 range? Not that I have seen recently, but that, you know, it could fluctuate a little bit. Like, I think it could be possible, like $350 could come up eventually, but that, you know,

Starting point is 01:39:39 that that's not like a very common. How close do you have to be to where you work? What's that situation? Well, my daughter is in a school. So it's more, I work remotely, which is wonderful. So I, but my daughter goes to school every day. So I'm driving her, I'm driving it down twice a day to get her. Where is your tiny house?

Starting point is 01:40:00 Are you renting the land or the space? Yeah, I am. I'm renting the land, basically, yeah. So it's in Coca-Cola. I don't know if you can go. No, I don't know where it is. I guess what I'm saying is is that if all I'm doing is encouraging you, not in any way, you know, tis-tis, you should be doing something different than you're doing. But I certainly will be looking at every opportunity to go, okay, if I could find something that's a little bit cheaper, that shortens my timeline, right? Because it's less I have to save. And I'm now going to incrementally work my way up. And you're actually a prime candidate for that, given the fact that you're in a tiny home. And I also think if I were you, and you love the tiny, home, and you go, hey, if I could find land, I'd get really aggressive in looking for something like that because it might be a lot cheaper than a house. Yeah, and I could always build a house on it later.

Starting point is 01:40:49 Down the line, that's right. And so let's say you get a... Go ahead. So there's also an opportunity to buy a house that's cheaper because it's with a group that has a deed restriction. And I'm a little bit hesitant to do a deed restriction. It's like you basically don't own the land, you own the house, and then you have to sell it, like, you can't sell it at market value. You have to sell it at, like, less than, don't do that.

Starting point is 01:41:17 No. Don't do that. No. No, that never want to buy something that comes with all these restrictions. Like, I didn't buy anything. I signed up for some deal that has all these problems with it. And you're not desperate. That's right.

Starting point is 01:41:29 That's the thing you got to remember. You're not desperate, but you are a person who had a timeline and you have a timeline that you want to make. and the hardest part of all of this is readjusting expectations. You know, that's the emotional aspect of this. You know the numbers. I don't think we have to go over that. You understand the benefit of the numbers. But the hardest part is the part of you that's got to go, man, this is, I'm disappointed.

Starting point is 01:41:56 This is not going to happen as quickly as I wanted it to. Yeah. And I am, you're right. I am disappointed. And I'm a little scared. Yeah. Well, yeah, the fear says, what? if I wait too long? What if I'm priced out of the market? What if I, you know, a lot can happen

Starting point is 01:42:12 in the next five to six years. So there's a fear of the unknown that's there. And you built your tiny home? Yeah. Yourself? Yes. Like with help, obviously. Yeah, but that's amazing. So I'm, I'm not trying to turn you into Joanna Gaines, but I would also, if you can find something that's not a death trap that doesn't end up costing you more money, but like with a little bit of love and tenderness, you know, and it's structurally sound. In other words, it's got good bones. You know, that might be a steal for you too, especially being a single mom with one kid. You're used to live in, you know, in some little thing. I'm sure it looks amazing, by the way. But I just, I guess my thing is, is that when I'm in a situation like you're in, and I know that there's a good long-term

Starting point is 01:42:59 play and it's going to require patience, then I know, okay, that will. That will. win. The tortoise beats the hair every time, all right? However, it never hurts to go, have I looked at everything? Have I turned over every stone? You know what I mean? And I guess that's my only encouragement. Doesn't hurt. You're not going to do anything stupid. You've been very smart to this point. So I'm not saying turn over every crazy stone. Like, I'm glad you brought up the one situation because that could be tempting. No, don't do that where they're going to force you to sell and you don't own the dirt underneath their house like that's not a stone we want to turn over or if we turn it over we see a bug we go ooh and we turn the stone back over and we run so that's one that

Starting point is 01:43:40 you do there but I would look at everything that you possibly can to see can I progressively step into something because I'm making good financial decisions along the way yes Our scripture of the day is Psalm 37, verses 3 through 4. Trust in the Lord and do good. Dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture. Take delight in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. Our quote from Maya Angelou today, I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both hands.

Starting point is 01:44:21 You need to be able to throw something back. I love that. I love that. So fun. You know, we've had, it's interesting. We were just talking with James, our fearless producer. I've been a lot of calls today where we've seen the emotional side of money. Yes.

Starting point is 01:44:36 Talked about. And you and I were talking about this earlier today. There's so much fear that is involved in money decisions. And you write about the emotional side of money in your new book. Yeah. What no one tells you about money. And that is the emotional side, how very difficult it is to win with money and also process all of the range of emotions that.

Starting point is 01:45:00 come with money and its rhythm in life. That's right. We saw it in a couple of calls today. We saw the young lady who had, she wanted to stop using credit cards and she had the money in savings to pay off the credit cards and start fresh, but there was fear there. We saw it with the previous caller who was like, I'm afraid I'm never going to be able to buy a house. If I keep saving at this rate with the market the way it is. And we've seen it throughout, we've woven throughout other calls as well. And I want to take a moment. Can I want to read this section out of the book specifically about fear. It says fear is a negative expectation of the future based on a rational or irrational belief. So if you think about that, some of our fears are totally, they're like totally

Starting point is 01:45:41 valid. It's like this is rational. I could see where that's coming from. Some of them are irrational. But I go on to say, I added the element about the future because if you think about it, fear is rarely about what's happening in the moment. It's really about our perception. It's really about our perceived outcome or what we think is going to happen in the future. If I do this, then some negative thing will happen later. That's what we think. And it's never about what's happening in the moment. We're projecting ahead and going, oh, gosh, if I do this, that thing's going to happen out there and that things. And we really don't know. And so in the book, I walk through understanding that and taking a moment and just writing out, what is it that you're afraid of? What is it? Write it down.

Starting point is 01:46:23 Because when you can look at it, staring back at you at the page, it has a whole different life. Right. It's great point. And then you can ask yourself, is this actually true? Is it rational or is it irrational? And I have found that the irrational ones can, they tend to be kind of vague. It's kind of like, oh, I'm afraid I'm going to mess everything up if I do that. Well, that's kind of vague. What do you mean by that? What are you going to mess up? How are you going to pay? But the more rational ones tend to be a little bit dialed down. Well, Jade, I'm afraid if I take a side hustle, it's going to be when I come home from work in the evenings, which means I won't be able to pick up my kids, which means I'll miss their softball practice, which me, right? And you've really dialed it down.

Starting point is 01:47:01 That's probably a little bit more rational and we can talk about that. But once you've written the fear down, once you've asked yourself, is it true or is it not true? Is it rational or is it irrational? Then we can get about the business of landing on, well, what is a more truthful statement that I want to replace that fear with. Yeah. It's absolutely right. I love it. Just one of the many times

Starting point is 01:47:22 that you talk about emotions. By the way, we've told you about it because it goes on pre-sale today. So exciting. What no one tells you about money. You can pre-order it right now. You get it for the best prize, 2499, Ramsey Solutions.com slash store.

Starting point is 01:47:35 You get to see Jade's phenomenal arms on the cover as well. That's bonus. It's all about the arms. Forget about the content inside. Yeah, that comes with the book. It's just bonus content. for those of you men and women alike that would like to have better arms it will motivate you better arms better money starts today there it is that's the that's the subtitle of the book

Starting point is 01:47:56 but no you can get it right now a fabulous book of by the way we don't have a book like this no we don't and there's not a book about the emotional side of money so this is a great book that I'll tell you just personally is hand and glove with anything else we've ever written on money because if you don't understand the emotional side of it you can and will many times get up because you are a human you're right it is human and you know we think about human doing but we forget sometimes that we're actual human beings and the human being part makes the human doing part harder and jades come alongside of us and uh giving us a real life uh a real life story full of stories oh it's all story on how to win with it so you're really going to enjoy it

Starting point is 01:48:41 go get it now Ryan is up in Virginia Ryan how can we help today Well, good afternoon, Ken and Jay. How are you doing today? We're doing well. What's happening with you? Well, I seem to have some decision paralysis, and I was wondering if you could just give me some help. I'm a natural saver, and at the moment, I have about $180,000 in cash savings, and I'm just trying to figure out how to best deploy it for retirement, eventually purchasing a home, and just the future. Okay, so do you have any debt?

Starting point is 01:49:20 No, debt-free. All right, so you're familiar with the baby steps? Yes. What baby step are you on? My understanding, I believe, four, five, and six. Okay, so you are actively investing, and this 180 is above and beyond your normal 15% that you're putting into retirement.

Starting point is 01:49:39 Yes, yeah. Currently, I have, if I did my math, right, about 20% going into retirement through a mandatory retirement with my state, and then a supplementary 403B. Okay. Wow. And what is your emergency fund? Is it three months, four months, five months, six months.

Starting point is 01:49:58 How much is it? It's just the 180. Oh, so what would be three months of your expenses? Three months of my expenses would be $4,500. Okay. And is it just you? so it's just me I'm single okay three hold on a second three months expenses is $4,500 yeah I live pretty frugly what's it what's your I mean for what's your you live

Starting point is 01:50:27 under a rock what's your rent what you pay for rent that's about right um at the moment I pay um I I rent a room from family members so in addition to monetary uh blood and sweat so okay uh current rent's about 400 $100. Okay. And how much blood and sweat are we giving? Sounds pretty gross. Just enough to keep things, the household moving. All right. Who are you living with? Who are you living with? Okay. How old are you? 34. How much do you make again? What's your take home? Take home monthly is a little over $4,000. Hey, bro, you're 34. It's time to flee the nest. Yeah, what's up with that? I know.

Starting point is 01:51:16 I know. We've talked about it. Who's weird? Who's we? I have. Me and my brother. So, we're pretty open financially. How old's your brother?

Starting point is 01:51:27 And now he's 32. So your brother is like, hey, man, it's time. Right? Oh, no. He's also on the property. Oh, no. That's what I'm getting that. You have two brothers who are still living home.

Starting point is 01:51:43 I assume there's no women on the radar for either one of you, right? No, they're no women on the radar. Huh? Not at the moment. Didn't think so. Do you think there might be a correlation between the fact that you're mid to low 30s living with your brother at your mom and dad's house? Probably some of it. The other is I don't, I'm a homebody.

Starting point is 01:52:05 Yes, but be a home body in your own home. Yeah, okay. Well, it's not a dating show. So regardless of no women being on the screen, you know, you. You need to be out on your own. So you got $180,000. I'll give it to Jade. We got about a minute and a half with me.

Starting point is 01:52:20 He's got 180 in cash, no debt. He's investing about 20%, Jade. I know. So here's what I want you to do. And he's washing the dishes every night. I forgot to mention that. Thing number one is I want tonight. Your homework tonight is go look and see where you can rent an apartment.

Starting point is 01:52:37 Start doing research on places that areas of town you want to live in and find out how much an apartment is. okay and then what I want you to do with that information of the apartment tell your brother well yeah listen there's your roommate at least let's get them both out of the same time for the first time ever I want you to live on your own yeah I agree I agree I have lived on my own before good and you're going to do it again and what I want you to do once you figured out how much rent is now I want you to save up a real three to six months of expenses based off of that number because the $400 the $45 That's not going to serve you once you move out.

Starting point is 01:53:15 So do it based off the rent numbers of a real place. And then after that, when's move-in date? Because that's really all you need. You've got the money. And then I would turn around. And with the money that you have, I would keep it in a high-yield savings account because you're going to keep adding to it

Starting point is 01:53:31 because eventually you're going to go from renting a place to buying your own place. So don't invest it. Keep it liquid because you're going to do that in less than five years. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the principal. of peace, Christ Jesus. Got it?

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