The Ramsey Show - App - A Budget That You Don't Live by Is Useless! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 2, 2020

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5 from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about career, talks about getting a job, talks about being in a workplace that's not toxic. He is my co-host today here on the air. So we'll be taking your questions about careers and about money and about meaning and about whatever else you want to talk about.

The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jamie's going to start off this hour in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Jamie. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Yes, my husband and I are finishing up baby step number three, and in planning our three to six month emergency fund, I'm wondering if we should lower that amount due to the fact that my husband is medically retired from the military and receives a monthly disability payment. Well, you could put it on the three month side, but I wouldn't take it below that because your emergency fund is for more than just loss of income. Okay.

Your emergency fund could be your Aunt Sally in Seattle passes away, and you have to chip in $3,000 into the funeral, or your transmission goes out, and you have to chip in $3,000 to the auto repair guy. So there's other things that can be an emergency that are not loss of income. But because your income is very, very stable, the three-month side will work fine. So what do you do? Okay. I'm a full-time mom. We have a two-year-old and then another one on the way. You guys live off of his military disability? No, sir, we do not. He is in finance as well and works full-time in that industry.

Oh, okay. All right. Well, good for him. How much money does he make? Our gross income from his corporate job is $100,000 a year, and then from his military disability, it's about $2,000 a month for disability. Okay. Well, I mean, if he's got a really stable position

and you've got this additional income, which is obviously stable, then you can have a lesser on the three to six month side. The six month side would be if you had a straight commission household or self-employed income or something where it's less predictable. And you've just got a lot of predictability on the income side of the equation. So you can go that way and tell him thanks for his service. We appreciate you guys. Dave, I got a question though, before we go further, because I understand why you told her the three months, but with kids, she's a stay-at-home mom. We didn't ask how old the kids are. I've got three. I remember one time that Stacey accidentally flooded the whole downstairs because she was

upstairs taking care of one kid and rinsing out a little toddler outfit that had gotten dirty or something. And that was a massive hit for us because of such a high deductible. And it was our mistake. It wasn't some act of nature. Why wouldn't, given that he makes $100, he's got the extra $2,000, why wouldn't they just go ahead and do the full six months just to have that, given the amount of income?

There's no problem with doing that. No, I know. The range is three to six months. And so anywhere in there, you're going to be okay. You're going to cover all the emergencies that you need to cover with three months. That's true. That is true. Or with six months.

You're going to be, I mean, there's a percentage of them that are going to be way smaller than that. And probably you just budget out of them. And then there's a percentage of them that are way larger. And that blows the emergency fund and some other stuff up. I mean, you have a $20,000 emergency. I just personally, when I started learning your baby steps, I always felt like the higher end of that always made me feel better. I would get a little anxious for no reason, but when I would get in that lower range of it, it was always, you know, this, oh, I want to get it back up there because life does happen.

But in this case, if she goes three months, they can get into baby step four much quicker and begin that 15%. And again, it's just are you comfortable with that? And what does three months of expenses represent? I mean, the number of people who are debt-free and have $20,000 set aside for emergencies, whether that's three months or six months, is less than 5% in America. I mean, it's nobody. For sure. And so you're already in the super weird category just by having this discussion.

So, you know, you're already on the smart train. You know, here we go, right? That's true. Eric is with us in Seattle. Hey, Eric, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, excited to talk to you. the smart train you know here we go right so that's true eric is with us in seattle hey eric welcome to the dave ramsey show i'm excited to talk to you thanks for taking the call sure man what's up so my question is my wife and i are on baby step four and my employer offers a 457b the pre-tax retirement plan and i have that. I also have a Roth IRA on the side.

My question was, because of the higher contribution limits on the 457, I was wondering if I should keep that, even though the investment options within it are only target date funds or index funds. So I was thinking I might be able to find better investment options elsewhere. But because the contribution limit is so high, I have kept it so far. I was wondering what your thoughts were on that. Well, when we're at baby step four, meaning you're out of debt and you have an emergency

fund in place, is that you? Yes, correct. You don't have any debt except your home? Just the house. I'm sorry? Yeah, just the house. Just the house. Just the mortgage.

Okay. Okay. So, yeah, then we're at baby step four, and we're putting 15% of your income away for retirement. No more. What's your income? Our combined income is about $130 gross. Okay. All right.

So we're talking about about $20,000 you're setting aside a year, give or take. And the first thing you want to do is get get a match do you have a match anywhere no i don't get a match anywhere no do either and your wife doesn't work outside the home um she does work yes um she essentially also has the same 457 option gotcha through her employer okay the next best thing, better than after a match, is a Roth, because the Roth grows tax-free. The 457 does not. It's deferred comp. It's deferred compensation. You're putting off your compensation so you don't pay taxes on it today. Thus, they don't tax it today, but they will tax it and the growth tomorrow. So it falls in the category of more like a traditional IRA or a traditional 401k. Even if you're putting after-tax dollars in or

before-tax dollars in, either one, you're still getting growth that's taxed in either case in a 457, A or B. And so, you know, the higher contribution limits just means you can get up to where you need to get to. So I'd do a couple of Roth IRAs at $7,000 apiece, $6, the higher contribution limits just means you can get up to where you need to get to. So I'd do a couple of Roth IRAs. That's $7,000 apiece, $6,000 apiece. And then, depending on your age, and then beyond that, I would use the 457 sparingly, whether it was A or B. It doesn't really matter. I probably would just do A and just keep the government's hands off of all the money.

But there is no tax-free growth. There is no Roth 457. And so you want to do Roth before you do deferred comp or before you do a traditional of any kind. Jerry's in Houston. Hey, Jerry, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, big fan. Ken, good seeing you online also. I have two questions.

First one, I had initially when I started listening to you in July, I had actually $29,000 in debt, $4,000 which I paid, and I have $25,000 left. Hey, I'll tell you what, dude. Commercial snuck up on me when I brought you up. It's my fault. I'm going to put you on hold. We'll bring you back from this break, and we'll get your question and get it answered. Sorry about that. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Has your family grown larger over the years?

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own. How about you? Would you like to be a part of our family as you grow your own? To learn more, visit us online at chministries.org slash budget and explore which options are right for you and your family. chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. He is host of the Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today he is host of the Ken Coleman show where we talk about careers if you want to talk about that or your money or both the phone number is 888-825-5225 we were talking with Jerry going into the break he's beginning to tell us his story so you get to start over Jerry tell us what's up yes sir so as I said, I had $29,000 in debt, and I paid $4,000 within the first two months watching you through YouTube. And I have $25,000.

$2,500 is credit card, and $10,000 is a personal loan that I actually took from Discover, which I have 21% interest charge on it. I took it because I was going to get married, and I actually married in India. And I took $15,000 from my parents, asked them for a loan also. My wife lives in India right now, and her paperwork is getting ready for her to come to the United States. And she's never been on a plane. And I wanted to be there to help her out with the procedures and stuff, and it would take me about $6,000 to go to India and do everything that needs to be done. So all my debt, I've been paying $200, $300 extra to try to get everything paid off. I made an arrangement with my parents where once I take care of my debt,

I'll pay theirs completely. Also, another question that I have is also for Ken. So what is your question? Okay, so I'm paying a little extra to my debt, so should I actually stop or pay a bare minimum and start saving for going to India? Yeah, you should stop everything, take six jobs, and go get your wife. Yes, sir. I have a question, though, Jerry. Jerry, you said you want to be there.

She's never been on a plane before, so you want to go to India and be there to help her through the whole process and that's going to cost six grand i just think it's worth asking what would it cost if you didn't go there and you just had somebody on the ground there in india that you trust that helps her get on the plane how much money would you save if you were just here when she got here it would be thirty five hundred dollars i'd go that option what do you make a year forty thousand sure,000, sir. Yeah. So the difference is a lot of money. I just started a job where I got promoted to this job. When they asked for how much they want to give me for a salary, i took the bare minimum also but i actually helped with the current job that i have i help out with two other departments um to run their projects

and stuff like that can so um is it a good time for me to ask the race because i've been there a year and a half and they love me and they give me already three four bonuses rather than a race so is it a good time for me to ask them a raise? Because I was concerned because of COVID and, you know, things like that. Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, I don't think you should ask for a raise. I tell people don't ask for a raise. Here's what happens. When you go in and you ask for a raise, whether you do it really nicely,

very professionally or not, it inevitably puts your leader in a defensive posture, even if they're healthy and a good leader. What you need to do, we have two separate questions here. So I want to address the raise thing in just a second. But never ask, just don't go in and ask for a raise because you've been there for a year and a half and all these good things. First thing is, let's go back to what Dave said. You've been paying an extra $300 a month towards your debt. Take that money plus two other jobs. Your wife's not here, so you've got lots of time on your hands.

Two or three jobs to come up with $3,500. That's my recommendation. Don't spend six when you can spend 35. There's somebody in India who can get your wife on the plane and get her here safely. You're there when she gets off the plane. And a lot faster. So $3,500 is your goal. How many jobs?

How quickly can you get to $3,500? That's your singular goal. Now, the second issue on the raise, here's what I teach on the Ken Coleman Show. You don't ask for a raise, you ask for a growth plan. Now, at Ramsey Solutions, we have a wonderful process by which every person on their anniversary of their start date, they have an annual review. And we also have a one sheet that we call, what is it? Geez, I just blanked out. Key results are KRA. Sorry, I've got my letters jumbled.

KRA. And it says, this is what a win looks like for Ken Coleman. This is what I'm responsible for. A win for Ken Coleman would be able to remember the year. Yes, to actually remember the KRA. I was so excited and so quick I got so fired up. So here's the deal. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to sit down with your leader and say, hey, if you do not have a KRA and if you do not have an annual review, I want you to go to your leader and ask for those things. Hey, can we sit

down and work together? You give your leader some skin in the game. And you're not asking for a raise. You're saying, hey, I want to grow. I want to grow in my abilities here. I want to grow the value and responsibilities that I can bring to this company. What can I do that makes me worth more money? That's it. And then say, how do we measure those results on that growth, which will then lead to greater responsibility, greater influence, and greater income. When you package it that way, it's not, what do I need to do to get a raise, or can we talk about a raise? The raise comes with the increase, the measurement. That's what I think

you should do. Yeah. If you just switch shoes for a second with your employer, it tells you exactly how to do what Ken's talking about. Because if you're, if you have somebody working for you and you're paying them your money out of your pocket, when would you give them a raise when they are adding more value? And so if you're making me a bunch of money or saving me a bunch of money more than your income indicates, then that means you are worth more to us. And so, um, you know, we pay you more and it's, it's that thing that, you know, are you causing the revenue to us. And so, you know, we pay you more. And it's that thing that, you know, are you causing the revenue to happen or are you causing the expenses to go down, either one of which gives me the money to give and share some of it with you.

So you've added actual value, and then it raises a no-brainer. But you've got to work through that with a game plan and lay it out the way Ken's talking about. Hey, man, thanks for the call. Kenny's with us in Jefferson City. Hi, Kenny. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave Ramsey.

Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my main question is do I finish, do we finish the baby step two step now that I have no job? I recently was let go from my employer the day before Thanksgiving. I made $90,000 roughly as a physician assistant. We made a household income of roughly $120,000. My wife currently still works as a registered nurse, and with the status of the pandemic, she's able to pick up quite a bit of hours. She makes $48 to $54 an hour.

In the past two years, we've paid off $70,000 roughly. And we had plans to finish Baby Step 2 right before the new year, paying that last $16,000. However, we feel like we just were racing towards the finish line and we got tripped up right before and we're really eager to pay it off. The interesting thing is that we have $10,000 in our emergency fund right now, $11,000 if you count the starter emergency fund. We don't have health insurance currently because my wife works as a needed basis, and we have a little one who's 11 months old, and we're waiting to hear back from the fellowship that I applied to earlier in the year. What is the fellowship?

What's that going to get you set up for? The fellowship would give me some more confidence and would be nice on the resume to be able to give me future employment. I'm a new grad PA, and one of the reasons that they let me go at my current job is that I felt like I did not have the experience I needed and was not meeting expectations. Sounds like the meeting expectations was the bigger issue, right? Yeah, I think those expectations had to do with the experience portion. So you get 10,000... How long were you employed? Since January. So eight or ten months? Yeah, ten months.

I think you go get another job as a PA. I do too. I think you're just, I think you got knocked on your butt and you got the wind knocked out of you and I think you go get a you'll get re-employed i think the fellowship is an escape mechanism for you fellowship's fine but it's a later we need a now plan yeah and no i wouldn't pay off the debt until you re-employed but i'd be re-employed before christmas if i were you a pa can land a job right now dude even if you were fired for um a level of competence issues there's other other ways you can apply your PA in situations and still be competent enough to justify your role. So I'd go get another job if I were you. What do you think?

Absolutely. Two jobs. Yeah, or three. And then I would pay off my debt. 2020 probably wasn't the year you hoped for. You're kidding, really? You might have just needed to pause some of your money goals. You might have paused your paying off debt just to keep the house running. But a new year's here. Some of this garbage is in our rearview mirror.

And time to clean up your debt. Time to get your goals hit, get in a position of generosity so you can help others, and be the third pig that builds the brick house, meaning you've got your emergency fund, you're out of debt, you're on a plan. That's exactly what happens when you get into Ramsey Plus. It's our step-by-step money plan that will help you pay off your debt as fast as possible, and here's how.

Practical ways to pay off debt, save for emergencies. We're going to teach them to you. You're going to plan your spending with a budget called EveryDollar. You're going to track your progress so you can see just how fast you get this done. You're going to go through Financial Peace University. All of this is in Ramsey Plus. No matter how this year's gone, you can make 2021 the year you get rid of your debt for good. Try Ramsey Plus for free. A free trial. Text the word trial to 33789-TRIAL to 33-789. Claudia is with us in Las Vegas.

Hi, Claudia. How are you? I'm well. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Hi. So I just found you about a few months ago, and I don't know where to start with this

conversation because we're a family of five. We were an income of $30,000. My husband was the sole provider. I was a stay-at-home mom living in Orange County, California with our parents. And we had to get out of there. We were on welfare. We were struggling. It was just bad.

So we moved to Nevada for a fresh start. My husband got transferred out here for work. So once my kids started school, I started working. So I've been working now full time for a year and a half. So together we are now bringing $100,000 take-home pay. Wow, look at you. Yeah, so it's just been very stressful though like when i found you i felt i felt like i finally found someone who i can listen to and look up to

and follow your baby steps um we finally got out of baby step zero but we can't figure out how to move forward. We only have $20 in our bank account, and I don't know what to do. Okay. You're making $100,000. Where did it all go? Just getting current with bills and just trying to keep our household running without government assistance. With $100,000, you can do that. Yeah, but we haven't finished.

This is going to be the first time we hit the $1,000 this year. That you hit $100,000. So you're making $8,000 a month. How many months ago did that start? That started in June. Okay, where has that gone? Where'd it go? Just seeing bills getting current on our four walls. Okay, $50,000 worth.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's going on. Ah, there we go. I started learning how to budget. No, you didn't. Since June,'t know. I don't know what's going on. Ah, there we go. Okay. I started learning how to budget. No, you didn't. And since June, I've been trying to budget. I've been listening to Rachel Cruz on her YouTube. I'm trying to figure out how to, you know, get this budgeting thing figured out.

Okay, let's just stop a second. Let's look at some basic stuff, okay? You got $8,000 at the beginning of the month. Yes. Now, let's just pretend this month is December, and we're going to figure out where that money's going. How much is your rent? $1,268.

Okay. That leaves us $6,800, okay? And how much is your lights and water? We're on a payment plan, so we're doing like $300 for lights and water. Okay, that leaves us $6,500. How much are your car payments? $910. Okay, that leaves us $5,500.

Okay, and what other big bills have you got? We have internet because we're working from home and kids are home from school. That's not a big bill. I said big bills. Yep. What have you got that's over $300 a month? Oh, nothing. Okay.

Where did $5,500 go then? I guess food. $5,500 go then? I guess food. $5,000 on food? No, $400 on food for the month. Okay, but do you see what I just did? I took $8,000 and I put it at the top of the page. And I took care of food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities, and we're still at $5,000 left over, give or take.

Right. After your four walls are current. Yeah, I'm just not budgeting correctly. Your budgeting is giving every dollar a name. That's what Rachel told you, right? Right. You're also doing this by yourself. Your husband's not helping you.

He says he's on board. No, he's not helping you do the budget. He's not helping you do the budget he's not no the two of you need to sit down together and give every one of your dollars a name for december before december begins and since it just began you go do it right now yeah look at what you've got coming in and give it a name every one of those dollars that's a zero-based budget and jump on every dollar and start using the app to do that it's free you can do that or start you a free trial on remsy plus one of the two but um there's something happening in your emotions

where you feel like this stuff is controlling you and some reason you can't go control it and all i'm telling you is you got to get up on top of it and put your foot on its neck and don't let this money leave without having a game plan claudia i want you to answer that i think you're about ready to blurt it out i want you to be really really gut level honest why are you not doing this what's keeping you from sitting down with your husband and doing this? Honestly, just, I think I'm, at this point, it's intense. My husband's just more like, you know, I'll let you deal with it. Here's my check and figure it out. Okay, so let's stay there. We're not on the same page. That's absolutely clear, but hold on a second. If he's saying that, and I don't like that, but this is all new, let's give him a little bit of grace here. What's keeping you from sitting down since he's supposedly giving you the green light to do it

and he's essentially transferring his responsibilities to you? What's keeping you from sitting down and doing this? I do. You should see my desk. I have planners. I have calendars that I print out. I budget. Okay, so hold on. Okay, all right. So what's happening is that you're either showing that to him or not showing that to him. If you are showing that to him, he's not living up to it, and he's just spending, and you're spending. Is that right?

That's correct. So a budget that you don't live by is useless. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The two of you need to agree on where these dollars are going to go in advance and then stick to your agreement. Yeah. You're doing theoretical budgets in the clouds that you've never actually applied to your life.

There's no behavior change. See, the budget is to guide your behavior. It literally says you can't spend more than X amount of dollars. Let's just look at your budget. You said $400 on groceries. That's not enough. That's not enough. But let's say that it's $600, $700.

That's your guideline. So you write down $400 on a piece of paper and then go spend $900 at the grocery store because you just ignored the budget because the budget was a theory, or he is too. And so this is your boss. It's like when you were a little kid and you said, you're not the boss me well you're the the budget's not the boss of you until you get it done and then once you get it done it's the boss of you it's telling both you and your husband every dollar where it's going and you're both going to spinky pinky swear and spit shake and stick to that and that's where this overwhelming thing comes from and it's like you're spiraling out there and somehow this stuff is whipping your butt you need to get up on it and

punch it in the nose and he listen you need to sit down with him tonight turn off television put the kids to bed take his hands in your hands and say i need you to be my man yeah i need you to man up bubba by the way claudia this is also live on youtube you need to take him to today's show right here in this moment about the 40th minute or so the first hour and you need to take him to today's show right here in this moment, about the 40th minute or so, the first hour, and you need to make him watch this because Dave and I just told him, hey, dude, you need to step up and help your wife. She's hurting. You need to man up. Well, the two of you working together.

I mean, this thing, I'm going to make the money and you take care of it. She's not your mother. That's right. You need to work together on this stuff. There's a high, all the data data tells us everything for 30 years of doing this tells us you can't get on top of it when you're not working together it's not a matter of gazelle intensity it's a matter of coming into agreement on a budget and then freaking sticking to it Thank you for joining us, America.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today here on The Dave Ramsey Show. All right, let's stop a second and talk about two different things that were overlapping. Because this happens to me, it happens to you, it happens to a lot of people. When you have a new thing that you have never done that is large and that is affecting your life, the first thing that happens is we're overwhelmed. That's the first thing that happens. And that's what was happening with our last caller on budgeting. So number one, you're overwhelmed.

Then the second thing that happens is as you dig into it and try to work on it, the next emotion you feel is frustration and anger. And that's where her tears were coming from you get frustrated you get angry but and that's right before you learn something because about that frustration is where learning occurs actually it actually fires the brain up and he overheats the brain and allows you to suddenly have that light bulb moment, chink, chink, over the top of your head that says, oh, yeah. And normally when you're learning to do something brand new, the first time you do it, you're not good at it. No.

And you have to do a little bit of it. That's how you eat an elephant a little bit of it. That's how you eat an elephant a bite at a time. Yeah. Yeah. So, A, you've got to make it a habit. A habit doesn't happen overnight. So there's no skill.

There's no aptitude when you start something new like this. But then you've got to stick with it long enough. So basically you've got to suck at it long enough to get to the point where you realize why you suck at it. And then you can begin to get better at it. And budgeting is the same way. We could also use the example of dieting. This point that you make, Dave, about this moment of frustration being kind of the, I think it's the crucible moment for all of us, is here's what happens. The human psyche, I think, when we get to that moment of frustration

where we're not very good at it, here's what happens. I think doubt creeps in. And doubt creeps in and begins to say this in our head you're never going to be able to get this you're never going to be able to figure this out and then the emotion comes a golf swing or it's a uh a miss hit ball or it's a striking out at the plate yeah or it's i tried to budge it once and it didn't work yeah well of course it didn't work you tried it once right but this key moment of sticking with it, Dave, as you said, this is where we really learn and we get over the hump. Here's what happens.

You've got to stay with it because doubt's telling you you're never going to be able to get this. You're never going to be able to do this. And then it collides with this disappointment. So you've got the frustration, and then there's this want to colliding with can I do it? I don't know if i can do it that's why you got to stay with it long enough because here's what happens when you figure out and you prove to yourself that you can do it then but she was in a situation with that emotion she was going i want to get out of debt i want to budget properly but i don't know if i can and

that's that emotion six months of being paralyzed making a hundred thousand dollars and not making any progress um there's a lot more going on there than that a lot but something happens there that the hope switch goes on when you strike the ball properly right with the golf club with the bat when you feel it. And as you talk about, hit it in the sweet spot, and you go, oh, wait a minute, I just did that. That was one out of 100 times, but I finally did it. I finally connected with it. I finally wrote this out, and then I didn't stick to it perfectly.

We always tell you it takes three months of budgeting before your budget actually works, because you've got to adjust the numbers and let them reflect reality. So $400 with a family of five for food in Nevada, Las Vegas, Nevada, is not reality. No. That's ridiculous. Yep. It's double that.

And so you need $750 or $800, $400 each paycheck, something like that, in your budget. And so if you get to your budget in this month and it's the first month you've done it you find five different failure points that also means you had 25 success points out of a 30 different out of a 30 item budget and so 30 things we did five of them were bad oh by the way one of them was food because most people by the way, one of them was food. Because most people, by the way, if you're new to this stuff right now, this is the first time you've ever watched us or heard of us, most people, when you do your first month of budget, whatever you write down for food is wrong. You probably need to double it or more. And it's okay to over budget for food the first three months of budgeting and you don't need three thousand dollars that's absurd but whatever you think it is you're wrong and you're going to find

that out by coming up short of enough money for food you don't want to miss on that one that's right that's right that's exactly right it's one that you want to have money left over in you know i wanted to say one other thing, Dave. I know you've experienced this. Claudia, there was a lot going on there. I wish the husband was a little bit more involved. There's a lot there. She's got some stuff to own, too.

One of the things, if you're new to this conversation and this sacrifice of living like no one else, as Dave says, so that later you can live like no one else. You need to get what he's saying here. I've also heard you say it, I don't know, 500 times at live events where I've been in the room watching you say, you get to a point where you're sick and tired of being sick and tired. That's the mindset to make it over the hump. Whether it's dieting, you're sick and tired of feeling the way you feel or looking the way you look in your swimsuit or in the mirror, whatever the situation is, here's the thing you've got to understand. You've got to reset your mind in those moments of discomfort where you go, I don't want to

do this. This is so hard. You've got to sit there and go, that's the weak voice. You've got to summon that strong voice and go, I'm doing this. I'm suffering. I'm sacrificing because of that desired future on the other side of this. You've got to remind yourself how miserable you are doing things the way you've been doing them. Yeah.

You have to kind of grab that. Only when the pain of same, the pain of where you are, exceeds the pain of change. That's it. Will you change? And so that's what that frustration, that buildup is, and that overwhelming sense. And you go, okay, I'm done. I've had it. Yes.

I've had it. I'm not doing this anymore. Because it sucks over here so bad that I'm willing to do whatever this is that sucks, but it doesn't suck as much. That's it. You know? That's exactly. That's all it is. This sacrifice can't possibly suck as much as my life does.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've lived 15 years this way. I just came off of welfare. We got $100,000 jobs, and I'm still out life does. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've lived 15 years this way. I just came off of welfare. We got $100,000 jobs and I'm still out of control. Which is phenomenal. This sucks so much. Right.

You know, I suck so much I still feel out of control with those numbers. Yeah. And it does. Summon that feeling. Yeah. Yeah. If you're like Claudia, of what it feels like to see 20 bucks in your account. Yeah.

You want to get out of that? Summon that feeling. Yeah. Never again. No. Never again. No. You know? get out of that summon that feeling yeah never again never again no you know and you know whether it's a collector calling you whether it's the shame the regret whatever the negative emotion

is the condemnation you feel the eye roll from your mother-in-law i don't know what it is but whatever it is you go that that's it that's it that's the rallying cry never again never again never again never gonna do this again. Could be COVID wiped your jobs out and put you on your butt, and you've got pandemic out of us right now financially, and you're going, I was one of the first two pigs. I wasn't the third pig in the brick house. The pandemic big bad wolf blew my butt down, and I'm not going to ever be here again.

I'm on fire, man. I'm on fire. I'm never doing this again. I'm never going to be here again.. I'm on fire, man. I'm on fire. I'm never doing this again. I'm never going to be here again. American Express called my wife when we were going broke and asked her why she would stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills. I got so pissed off. It was 30 years ago. I'm still pissed off.

Right. I mean, never again. If American Express calls my house, it's what's known as a freaking wrong number. I'll never do business with those morons. They're absolute crooks. I hate those people. They are unbelievable. I'm still mad 30 years later.

And never again will I let them have an entree into my life to say something like that to my wife. Yeah. Because she was kind of thinking the same thing. Of course. Yeah. I want to ask you to speak to something, too, though, because we're talking about that visceral emotion that you need to get to kind of sustain this journey because it's tough. I mean, I've never heard you, and you're never going to hear another Ramsey personality or anybody at this company tell you that this is going to be an easy journey. No.

Now, the process is simple. To understand. Simple to understand. Very difficult to do. Exactly. All right. Now, when you did in the early days, when you were doing that one-on-one coaching in your church this is the early dave ramsey days how much of the shame when you and then we're not picking on claudia but how much of that when she feels like i for six months i've been listening to the show and i've been listening to rachel cruz show

and i'm still not getting it how much of that shame has to be shaken off too yeah it does is that a big part of it as well or you turn it and use it to say i don't want to feel this way anymore yeah which is what we were talking about yeah Yeah, exactly. I use the negative emotion as a motivator to run from my present circumstance into my future better self. And that's what it amounts to. And guys, the whole point is you guys can do this, but 90% of the barriers are emotional. They're not intellectual. This is not rocket surgery. It's just not rocket surgery.

It's not that hard. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.