The Ramsey Show - App - A Degree Is Not a Golden Ticket to Success (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 23, 2019

Debt, Home Buying   Tools to get you started: Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE   Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. It is a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Starting us off this hour is Karen in Montana. Hi, Karen.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Oh, nothing. So you're kind of the deciding factor in this. So far this year, we've paid off about $35,000 in debt. My husband makes about $50,000, and so far this year, I've made $25,000. I'm a child care provider, and with child care, it can go back and forth because I don't do regular programs.

So where I'm going with this is in November, we bought a car to start my business so I could transport children. I started reading about you in January, and we took our tax return, which was way too much. We put it down on our debt, and we've been kind of snowballing ever since. Now, we've gotten to the last debt, which is my car, which is the most expensive thing. It is stupid, I know, $40,000 car. We just started to pay on it, but as I'm seeing it, I want to sell it. I'm just at that point, I don't want to pay. I don't want to keep working my butt off.

All we have to do is sell the car, get a cheap, drinky-dink car, but my husband doesn't want to pay. I don't want to keep working my butt off. All we have to do is sell the car, get a cheap, cranky, dink car, but my husband doesn't want to do it. I don't know how to get him on board with that. Okay. Why does he want to keep it? I think because he sees it as our last bump. And once we've got it, that's a business tool for me. And he doesn't want me to turn around and buy another car and use it as a business tool when I can just keep the one that I've got, work my butt off, and just have, you know. Yeah.

Well, as a business tool, it's not logical. You're not making enough to justify a $40,000 piece of equipment. If you told me, if I was sitting down with a business person and they said, the business is bringing in $35,000 a year, we'd like to invest $40,000 in a piece of equipment, I would say, uh, no. That doesn't make sense. You see what I'm saying? Yes, sir.

And so you've got a good business that's making 35 000 but you need to be doing that with a ten thousand dollar car not a forty thousand dollar car even if you were in great shape financially let's just say you were let's say you're millionaires and you had no debt okay you would not invest forty thousand dollars in a piece of equipment in order to make 35 000 i agree that does it's just not like it's not good business and you're and the thing is you're $40,000 in a piece of equipment in order to make $35,000. I agree. It's just not good business. And the thing is, you're not going to be able to double your revenue with this car. Does that make sense?

It's not, you know, because there's only so many kids you can haul in a car and only so many hours in a day to haul kids and so forth, right? Yes, sir. hours in a day to haul kids and so forth right yes sir and so you the chances of you going from 35 to 90 on your business of kid hauling is is not predicted it's not it's not predicated on the ownership of this car so you know uh uh yeah the good news is that gets you out of debt a little faster um and but but you know yeah but then so you move down to about a ten thousand dollar vehicle you can probably get a ten thousand dollar vehicle do the job can't you it's a van right that's what that's what i think yeah i think you can it's an suv yeah but that's

why that's why i've said you know like i mean we're upside down probably about um eight grand in it. And then, I mean, I'm not sure what I would do as far as that goes. I've been listening to you for a while, and from what I understand, I could just get a personal loan. But then I would turn around and get another loan for an extra $10,000. Yeah, you just get you an $18,000 loan from the credit union to buy a $10,000 car, cover your upside down.

And so, basically, the van is not worth $40,000. You're saying you owe $40,000 on it, and it's probably worth $32,000. Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. We just got it down because we were in negative equity, and I made a payment, and I just saw how much was going towards this one thing, and it's such a big thing.

Well, it's not just that. The point is, again, if you were paying cash, I mean, I've got the ability to write a check today here. I would not invest something inside of our company. I would not invest $40,000 to make $35,000. It's just out of balance. You know, I would invest $10,000 to make $35,000, especially if I could do it for $10,000. You know, I would invest $10 to make $35, especially if I could do it for $10. You know, that's the thing.

And so it's a business decision on that. Then the sidebar is, oh, by the way, it helps us get out of debt. You know, but there's two reasons to do this. And so, yeah, it's just not a good business call. It's not a business tool. Ratios on a call with a business tool doesn't make sense. Hey, thank you for the call. Lauren is next.

Lauren is in California. Hi, Lauren. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm good. Thanks for having me on. Sure. How can I help?

So I'm 25, and I've been married for a year now my husband and i have 140 000 in student loan debt but we don't have any personal debt who's the doctor or lawyer this is a private school oh you do have personal debt kiddo it is student loan is personal debt yes but i mean more like we don't have any credit card debt. So, yeah, we just have the student loan debt, but it feels like it's crippling. And living in Southern California, just the cost of living is so high. My husband, he's a computer programmer, so he got his degree in computer science. But he's getting underpaid, and I feel like a lot of it has to do with being in Southern California.

It's really competitive, and being just out of college, he kind of had to just take a job, you know, the job that he was offered. And so I've been feeling like we should move out of Southern California to a more affordable state, but I just kind of wanted to get your take on living in a high-tax, a high-costing state and trying to sell all the houses. So what does he make? So he makes take-home after taxes and everything, he makes just about $60,000. And what do you make? So I'm in between jobs right now. What's your degree in?

So my degree is in theology. Theology? Theology, yeah. Okay, all right. Okay, and so do you guys have family ties to California? We have our family here, but I feel more detached because we both want to get the debt, but he, I feel like, is a little more attached to California. Okay.

Well, I mean, you guys have just got to sit down and look at, okay, when you land your job, you're all's income versus this $145,000 hole that you have dug. You know, can we do better somewhere else? And it's not just about money. It's personal finance. So it's about family and about other things, too. But if you can't make traction where you are, then you do have to look at moving, even if it's just for a few years. And then maybe you moved back.

But I'm not aware that computer programmers are underpaid in California. I don't think that's a California thing. I think it's your husband took that job thing. He made a little experience as a programmer now that he's got his four-year degree. So, you know, you can look at another city and make a move, but I don't know that that's your answer. You getting a job and you guys living on beans and rice, well, that's probably your answer. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options?

Do you wish you could find an affordable biblical solution to your healthcare costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major healthcare costs. Christian Healthcare Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry. A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, Thank you. Rashad is in Florida. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Rashad.

Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve, man. How can I help? I'm doing good, man. So I was hoping that you could help me with the decision I'm trying to make. So I have $30,000 in debt, $15,000 for a car loan and $15,000 for a student loan. But I also want to go back to graduate school and pay my way through so I don't attain any more debt.

So I was just trying to see which one should I do first. Should I just pay the minimum on my debt and put my way through graduate school first? Or should I pay my way through graduate school later after taking care of the debt? What do you make? I make $35,000, and I live at home, so I'm able to keep most of that. Okay. So you could be debt-free in like a year? Yeah, I could be debt-free in like a year or two and then go to grad school.

No, like a year, not two. Okay. If you have $30,000 in debt, you make $35,000, and you live at home. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's your work extra. You take an extra job, and you're debt-free in a year. So what are you wanting to study in grad school?

I'm wanting to study organizational leadership. So like, you know, to be like a manager at Boulevard Management or like an executive or something like that. Okay. So you get your MBA? Yeah. Okay. All right. What do you do now?

As of right now, I'm an aircraft worker at an airplane company in my hometown. I graduated my bachelor's from journalism. I did that for like two years and kind of decided I didn't want to take that route anymore, which is why I'm looking to go back to school. Okay. All right. How old are you again? 25.

Okay. um how old are you again 25 okay yeah i i just said the way i answer questions is if i woke up in your shoes knowing what i know now if i was 25 years old an mba is an excellent track what are you talking about paying for your mba i'm looking at 20 to 22 000 yeah that22,000. That's probably fair. Okay. And it's probably worth that. It does not guarantee, it does not punch your ticket that you get into management. You understand that. It might get you a job that someday leads to management. Okay. But an MBA with a 25-year-old does not put you in management at my company.

You're going to have to be able to exhibit some leadership skills. I've got lots of 25-year-olds on our team, and none of them are in leadership, in major leadership roles. Now, some of them are in minor leadership roles on their way up. And none of it has, or very little of it it has to do with the MBA. It has to do with they have exhibited the ability to lead and play well with others and motivate people and so on. And so the MBA is not your golden ticket. It's not your Willy Wonka deal, okay? But it is a great degree, and it will facilitate and help you. The knowledge that it gives you will help you with your career more than the actual degree itself

because the knowledge is just really valuable.'s a great it's a great field of study so um i i'm with you on your goal i i just want to adjust your why on the goal i don't want you to come out with your mba and go be disillusioned and go wow i still can't find anything well you're you're going to hit entry level is what you're going to do. You're in your 20s, and you're going to get started somewhere. So with all of that in mind, knowing all of that from my seat, I'm going to take a year and clean this mess up, and I'm going to work like a crazy person three jobs or whatever I've got to do and be completely debt-free.

And then the next year, I'm going to cash flow and start this MBA. But, you know, and it's probably, what, an 18-month program? Yes, 18 months. Yeah, that's pretty typical. And so, yeah, I think it's a valid thing. It's a good field of study. I would do it. I would clean up my mess first.

You're in a perfect situation to do that at this stage of your life. You can just work your tail end off, man. Just work, like, six jobs and clean this mess up really, really fast and then start on that MBA. And that'll be fine. But please do not make the mistake of thinking a degree is your Willy Wonka golden ticket. A degree might open a door or two. The knowledge you have that you get from getting a degree, if you study something that's valuable it can be very valuable in helping you you know do things so hey thanks for the call open phones at 888-825-5225 you know

with the student loan crisis everybody's just bitching and whining and moaning about college and no college is worth it and yeah that's just not true we're not going to throw the baby out with the bath water bad college is not worth it bad college is paying too much for a degree when you don't have the money especially and going into debt to do it bad college is studying something that's useless and getting your degree in left-handed puppetry or something and then you can't figure out why the society won't give you won't pay you big money. Well, it's because you've earned a set of skills that are useless to society. But, you know, getting an MBA, getting a business degree, getting a degree in communications, journalism degrees are fine degrees.

There's nothing wrong with any of that. These knowledge bases do help you uh the fact that i have a degree um 35 40 years ago uh from the university of tennessee did not make me successful no one has ever i've never sat down to do a book deal i've never sat down to negotiate a deal i've never sat down to talk to someone about doing business with us and they went oh you went to university tennessee you got a four-year degree it's a done deal that has never happened one time that i got somebody just handed me something because i got a degree that's just dumb butt thinking right there and so but what does happen is this i had several quarters of accounting i had several quarters of statistics i had several quarters of statistics i had several quarters

of marketing i use all of those things every freaking day running this business the knowledge base is very valuable but i think we've gotten confused you need to get a college degree you need to get a college degree you need to get a college degree you need to get a college degree and so people go get college degrees and stupid stuff and they pay too much for the college degree and it's it's so disillusioning it's heartbreaking for the people that do it and so it's part of what's caused the student loan crisis and then people you know pick on the millennial of being the entitled brat well they're not entitled they were lied to and you know they were told this thing by stupid people that says all education

is a good idea and all education is worth whatever you pay for it well those are two dumb statements that's like saying home ownership is always a good idea no it's not when you're broke and you buy a house it makes you broker that's why they call them mortgage brokers it makes you broker and broker the same thing's true all education is not valuable in terms of what it creates you in an income in the marketplace now if you wanted to get a degree in some eclectic sidebar nuanced thing that's fine but pay cash for it and don't have an expectation that you're going to get a return on investment except in your increased joy of life because you wanted a degree in left-handed puppetry and so now you've got you know you're the world's best professor in

german polka history well nobody gives a rip out here in the real world that you're that but if that makes you feel good that's fine fine. You can go do that. It has a value in that regard. But I'm talking about the idea that you make more because you have a college degree. You don't. You don't unless you work and unless you use the stuff that you learned when you were getting the college degree. And unless you got a college degree in something that's valuable. Now, Rashad's doing all of the smart things on that.

He's paying a reasonable amount to get that MBA. He's studying organizational management specialization in that MBA. That's a good field of study. He's already got his degree in journalism and communication. Those are good fields of study. All of that is usable. All of that is stuff that he can use to make more money. It's tools in his belt.

If you come to work and there's no tools in your belt, you just look stupid. And so you've got to have tools in your belt to be able to get your job done. And that's what education does. You can get education reading a book. You can get education taking a class. You can get education while pursuing a degree that says that you got an education. But the education, the knowledge, is what's valuable. So knowledge in useless stuff has less value.

So don't get a degree in German poker history and then think that society owes you a raise, folks. That's not what Rashad's doing. I'm fussing at him, just reminding all of you. And don't, hey, people, don't let your kids do this stupid stuff. You got an 18-year-old who wants to study something, the weird. No. No. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. It's common sense for your dollars and cents, teaching you to live on less than you make.

A concept Congress can't grasp. Okay. Mike is with us in New Jersey. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, how you doing, Dave? Thanks for taking my call. Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help?

I got a question. I'm 30 years old. I'm in a very unique situation. I have about $100,000 saved. Wow. I have no student debt. I have no credit card debt. I have no car payment.

You have no debt of any kind? I have no debt of any kind. Way to go. How did you pull this off? Luckily, through some inheritance. I have great parents. However, I take home after taxes less than two thousand dollars a month i live in northern new jersey it's incredibly expensive i don't know

if i should rent or buy um the the prices are exorbitant even for like a 750 square foot apartment it's still going to be fifteen hundred dollars which i can't why do you make twenty four thousand dollars a year when you're 30 years old? What are we going to work on in your career? I'm in the social services field. So it's pretty bleak. It's a rewarding job. It's just not a very high-paying job.

I would like to ideally go back for my master's in something and pay cash for that. But then that brings in the problem, if I have a mortgage, I wouldn't be able to pay cash for a graduate degree. I would have to then take that one. So get a graduate degree in what? Hopefully not social services, because this isn't working for you. No, no, not social services. I don't know.

There's the problem. I don't know exactly where I would like to go. I would maybe go into counseling uh therapy um where you get licensed and you know you can you can make decent money and a good marriage counselor make a hundred grand in your area exactly okay but the problem right now is when i'm about to move i don't know exactly what i should do oh you rent you rent and you use some of your hundred thousand and go get your masters you don't know exactly what I should do. Oh, you rent and you use some of your $100,000 and go get your master's. You don't think I should get a mortgage?

No, you're broke. You make $2,000 a year and you live in New Jersey. When you move out, you're starving to death. Yeah, and then I would just use up all my savings. Exactly. You're going to just burn through it and then be sitting there looking at a career path that obviously hit the wall.

You know? It's just, you know, the bottom line is it's not saying you're doing something bad. You're not doing something immoral. You're just not making any money. Yeah. And you just... In terms of the... Sorry.

In terms of the money I have right now, right now it's a good amount of money in a very low-yield savings account, like 1%. Right now I'm also allocating $110 every paycheck into my 401k, which so my monthly income could go up, but I would rather it just go into my 401k and not even see it. However, I don't know if I should diversify my money more than just having it all in one. All of that starts to work when your career gets on track and you start making some money. Yeah.

None of these answers are going to fix anything while you're trying to do it on $2,000 a month in New Jersey. Yeah. These numbers just don't work. You've got to have a different plan. And I don't care what you do, and I'm not mad about what you're doing now. It's just mathematically, bless your heart, you're working your butt off and you're starving to death. Yeah, not feasible. Yeah, you've got to have a different angle.

And so, you know, it's time to make a change of some kind. It may take you a little while to make that change, and you need to decide exactly what that is. I mean, we're talking about, you know, getting licensed as a therapist in your area, a counselor in your area, and, again, a family therapist, a marriage and family therapist can make six figures in your area over time. I mean, it takes a while to build a book of business and so forth, build a reputation of being able to know, you know, that you know what you're doing and that you're actually helping people

heal their lives. But once you do that, you can make some money doing that. But no, I do not want you expanding your 401k and buying a house and then trying to figure out why you used up all your hundred grand because you didn't make enough to live. So bottom line, you wouldn't consider renting as burning money. Not temporarily. Yeah. No, of course, it would definitely be. I would like that to be a max of three years.

Yeah. So now let's go get your master's in two years and spend $20,000 of your money doing that and spend a little money on rent during that time. And if you put nothing in your 401k for a short period of time that's okay because we're working a plan to get our income up the answer to call what causes you to prosper and build wealth and retire with dignity is not going to be this hundred grand and it's not going to be buying a house you can't afford it's going to be getting your income squared away so that you can do a 401k and a house that you can't afford it's going to be getting your income squared away so that you can do a 401k and a house that you can afford yeah no thank you dave how old are you i'm 30 years old okay

so when you're 35 is when all this is going to kick in if you start today and i know i know people are i hear everyone call and i know there's people are in 140 000 debt and all this other thing so i know i'm in a good spot it's just tough looking at my you know check all the time i don't know how other people do it yeah they don't i don't know i don't know how they could do it you don't get a pass on math just because you live in new jersey i mean everybody math works everywhere and so you know it's not that you're doing something wrong it's not that you're don't have dignity in your work or that you're not doing good work it's that you're starving to death and so you've got to adjust your career path and

that probably if you stay in that field generally like we're talking about then you probably do need to go get your master's you could just adjust your career path and go be a welder. I don't care. And, you know, you can probably make 80 or 100 doing that in your area. So if you want to get in the apprenticeship program to that, it doesn't matter to me, but you cannot just keep doing what you're doing and just think this is all going to work because it's not. So, hey, man, thanks for the call.

We appreciate you joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. This is all going to work because it's not. So, hey, man, thanks for the call. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. John is with us in Phoenix. Hey, John, how are you? Hey, Dave.

Thank you for taking my call. Also, I want to thank you for having Mike Glenn on recently. It was Coffee with Mom book. My mom has dementia, so that book's been really encouraging. My wife, Sharon, finished reading it this last weekend and is going on and on and on about it. We've been great friends with Mike for a long time personally, and she said this book, her mom had Alzheimer's, and she said this book just lights out.

So Coffee with Mom is a big deal. Thanks for saying that. How can I help? Yeah. So I am about to turn 40, and I have been finally getting on board, and I'm about a month away from being in Baby Step 3. I've been doing Uber Eats and Postmates and like crazy, second job. I'm a youth minister full-time, And I love my job, love this place.

I gross $48 a year. But I keep thinking about the 3B question. I listen to the podcast and reading online. And I'm just curious if where I'm at, and I'm single, as I get to this 3B step, I'm thinking to get through 3 and 3B for a decent down payment here in Phoenix. I could be wrong, but I'm thinking four or five years. That's true.

That's too long. I don't want to be in 3B for five years. I don't want to be in 3B five years. Okay. I need to get you started in retirement within three years something like that and so you know it depends what you may have to do is settle for not a full 20 down payment and get started on your first home purchase and so you probably pull that off in three years great yeah because you know i have that same question a lot of people do i have a four percent match here thankfully at the church yeah um but and so some people do a

modified 3b it's not a hard it's not a hard rule you know on that as far as i'm concerned the point is is that you get out of debt you have your emergency fund before we start talking about a house and some people say i'm just going to put retirement completely on hold but some people say i've got a four percent match i'm not going to do the full 15% baby step 4. I'm going to do 4% until I get my house payments saved up, house down payments saved up, and then I'm going to kick back in and do full-on baby step 4. You could do that. That's a modified version, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's kind of a middle ground.

Some people don't do baby step 3B at all. They don't save for a house at all. They just plow right into retirement, 15% of their income going into retirement. I'm going to come back around later and do this. So that's how it works. Hey, good question, man. Appreciate you joining us. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com.

They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds for free. Free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos every month, you'll save even more. Always use the magic word, the promo code Ramsey. That'll get you in there, baby. Angel is in California. Dave, I'm currently in a Chapter 13 bankruptcy.

I want to know how to incorporate the baby steps. Thank you. I wish I would have heard of you sooner. I do too, darling. Sorry you're facing that. Well, Chapter 13 bankruptcy is what's called the wage earner's plan. You pay payments towards your creditors, towards your debts for 60 months, five years, unless you pay it out early. And so you could view your overall Chapter 13 as your largest debt and put it at the

bottom of your debt snowball. That's what people do sometimes. If you have any debts that are not in the Chapter 13, other than your home, you would pay those first using a traditional debt snowball and then once you've gotten those paid then we'll go over and just start paying extra on the chapter 13 or saving up the money to pay it off in one fell swoop either one uh the good news is the chapter 13 trustees are the bright spot in the bankruptcy world. Most of them, I know a bunch of them personally, and most of them are very smart,

and they care about the people that are in bankruptcy, and they will assist you even if your attorney is a deadbeat. And so that's the good news. The bad news is you're in bankruptcy, and there's a whole lot of laws that have to be followed regardless of who wants to help you and so they're going to guide you they can guide you through the process so when you get to the point that you can or want to pay extra on your 13 or get rid of the debt around the 13 then contact your chapter 13 trustee's office and ask them how to do that most efficiently and legally so that you don't mess something up in your bankruptcy filing.

But that's how you handle it, so good news. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Hey, did you know you can find the Ramsey Network anywhere you watch or listen to your favorite shows. You can check all of us out on YouTube. You can listen to us where you listen to podcasts. You can tune in to us on Sirius XM on the Ramsey Network there. You can download the Dave Ramsey Show app.

The Chris Hogan Show talks about everyday millionaires. Chris has got a wonderful podcast. The Ken Coleman Show on mainstream radio, 30, close to 40 radio stations now carrying that show broadcast from the studio right next to mine here on the glass in the new Ramsey headquarters and on SiriusXM. And he takes your calls live every day like I do. The Business Boutique Podcast, Christy Wright, equips women to turn their passions into profits. The Rachel Cruz Show is a YouTube show that we also reproduce as a podcast.

It does extremely well on YouTube. Man, it's a go-zoom-zoom. Entree Leadership, the top show in all of leadership podcasts out there, helps business owners grow their teams. And, of course, this show, The Dave Ramsey Show. So don't forget, we're on your smart speaker. All you have to do is say, play the Dave Ramsey Show, and Alexa or Google Home will do that for you. Matter of fact, I probably just did that for some of you.

I just activated your – that's funny. I ought to just walk around saying that. Play the Dave Ramsey Show. We ought to just put out loudspeakers in the community that say that. It'll activate everybody's Alexa and everybody's Google Home. Hey, you can stay motivated by staying right here. So just go to DaveRamsey.com slash show. You can find out all the ways to do this.

All of it's free, by the way. Some say the advice is worth what you pay for it, but it's all free. Justin is with us. Justin's in Texas. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Justin. How can I help? Hey, Dave, I caught your bug. I got motivated and really, really intense and started hammering down on what I wanted to get done.

And I skipped a step and didn't really have a real in-depth conversation with the wife. Uh-oh. And so I'm getting a little bit of pushback. Yeah, I think. Yeah, yeah, I'm a genius on that one. And I'm trying to figure out how do I get her on board? I think one of her biggest concerns is that she runs a small, I don't want to say resale cause it's not, she buys stuff at wholesale, sells it at her markup and she does it all online and she's still really small. She's a one-person thing, and she's trying her best, but she's kind of not really, I don't know. She's kind of discouraged about it, but she's doing great in my eyes.

But I keep telling her, hey, I'm cutting up the credit cards, and that kind of scared her a little bit. And I'm just trying to figure out how I can get her out of it. It scared her because she uses the credit card in her business? She thinks that she needs one for her business. Okay. All right. Cool. All right.

Well, yeah, let's stop for a second, and I think you need to go back, and I think you need to turn off the television. If you've got kids, put the kids to bed tonight, and I think you need to take your wife's hands in your hands and say, Honey, I screwed up. I'm sorry. Yeah. I went running off down the road with my hair on fire,

and I left you standing back there thinking your husband's a moron and i'm i'm not a moron i just made a mistake here and i am so sorry let me start again on all of this and then you don't talk about the what what happens when we get excited as we run around talking about what we're going to do we're going to do this we're going to cut up your credit card we're going to sell your car we're going to work extra we're going to do that you start talking about all the things you have to do to be able to get out of debt so that you can build wealth right and and you start talking about what instead of why and then you need to stop with her and say here's what happened inside my heart honey here's why i went crazy okay is i caught the bug on this and what this is is the idea that we can live our dreams

the idea that we could be millionaires the idea that we don't have to live under the thumb of the man the idea that we don't have to live our whole lives working for some stupid bank and paying payments and i i actually believe that we can do this and that we could build serious wealth and our and we could travel and we could do all the stuff we want to do and that's why i got so excited so just dream with me for a minute here and you shut up and ask her this question if we had a big pile of money and no debt, what would be your dream? What would you want to do? Boom. Just like that, right?

And let her talk. And that's the why. And if you get your teeth sunk into the why, then you can get excited about sacrificing to win. But if you just get excited about sacrificing to win just on the very purpose of that that's a very unusual person it's kind of a weird person so most people don't do that most people go the reason i'm doing this is for my kids the reason i'm doing this is because i always wanted to dot dot dot okay fill in the blank and get that why out there and just work on that why chris hogan says to dream in high def a high definition put great detail to

your dream of what it's going to look like when you arrive at the gleaming city when we get to oz what's it going to be like you know and then we're off to see the wizard right we're off to see the wizard then we follow the yellow brick road we follow the clear path and then we can do that because and then you go okay now how can we do all of that and avoid debt and while you run your business because i'm so proud of your business your business will run just fine on a debit card which it will it'll run just like a credit card as long as you have money in the stinking account and so you got to keep you have to commit to keeping enough money in her account with her debit card for her business to run or she's not going to be on board

yeah and i i slowly got her on board i downloaded the everyday dollar yeah the every dollar app yeah and and got her to fill that out and she's like wow look at all this money that we're wasting over here there you go and you can reference when you apologize to her for goofing up you can reference back and go that's one of the know, when you got excited about every dollar, multiply that by 10 because that's what I started seeing. That's why I got so weird and crazy on you, okay? So let's back up and let's join arms and let's, you know, Dorothy and the Cowardly Lion and the Tin Man, they didn't go down the yellow brick road by themselves. They did a little move together, right? Arms are joined together.

And so now let's follow this path and these yellow bricks are gold baby i mean this is where we're going we're going to go we're going to the gleaming city we're going to do this we're going to be an everyday millionaire like chris hogan talks about and um you know we're going to call in and scream we're debtfree so that we can live our dreams, so that we can have a destiny, so that we can change our family tree, so that we can be outrageously generous. And these are all, you know, it's the so that that matters in all this stuff. Hey, great question, man. You're a good man.

You're going to work this out. You call me anytime. I'd love to help you. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, and we'll be back. Hey, guys, this is Blake Thompson, senior executive producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know over 15 million people listen to The Dave Ramsey Show every week?

And a lot of those people listen to one of over 600 radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.