The Ramsey Show - App - Advice on Buying Fixer-Uppers or Move-In-Ready Homes (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 30, 2018

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones as we talk about you at 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Brittany's with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Brittany. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How are you? I'm doing okay. I have a question for you. So I graduated undergrad six years ago. I have always been someone that prioritizes saving.

And since I graduated, I've saved about $76,000 in my 401k. I saved $20,000 in cash and I just started a Roth IRA. Right now I only have about $5,000. Good for you. Well done. Thank you. But so I just, within the past couple months here, I've been listening to you pretty consistently. And the one thing that I haven't prioritized is actually paying off my student loans. So in listening to you and following your baby steps, I've, I decided to go ahead and take that $20,000 or $18,000 of it and put it towards my student loan. So right now I have about $18,000 left in student loans, which I'm trying to aggressively attack.

The one thing, though, is that... Oh, and then I also stopped. I was putting in 12% of my income into my 401K, and I cut that in half to 6%. The one thing, though, is that I've started talking to my friends about what I'm doing and they are just, they're like, are you crazy? You're a single woman. How could you only have $2,000 in savings? Why are you, you know, trying to attack your student loans?

They're only federal loans. They're not private. I've even heard some of my friends say that, you know, if worse comes to worse, you can move out of the country and not pay your debt. Are your friends multimillionaires? No. Then who gives a crap what they think about money? You're going to take financial advice from broke people?

It's not funny. It's dumb. I know. I know. It's crazy just some of the things that they've said, like moving out of the country. Who cares? They're broke. Yeah, but i'm wondering that's like saying that's like saying i'm overweight and i'm gonna lose weight and i'm actually doing it

and all my overweight friends are making fun of my plan that's kind of dumb yeah yeah yeah i mean who cares what they think why are think? I wouldn't even discuss it with them. I mean, like somebody's been married 16 times, and they're going to help you with your marriage problem. Right. They got the honeymoon down. They ain't got the marriage thing down. You know what I'm saying?

Right. So you've got to, you know, in business, I don't go to someone who has failed at their last three marketing plans and ask them how to do a marketing plan. I try to find people who are successful at marketing and emulate those things. It's called best practices in business. It's the same thing here. So, I mean, I don't really care what your broke friends think about money.

They're stupid. Okay. I mean, really. I don't. Yeah. So what you've got to decide is, do you have sufficient evidence that in your spirit, in your mind, and that the system that we're laying out makes sense, and you're really going to go do it? And if you don't have sufficient evidence, don't do it but but you know you shouldn't that would be unwise on your part i don't want you to blindly follow some voice on

the radio that would be weird too you know but but you know read through the total money makeover go to the financial peace university class do something like that and then sit there and use your own critical thinking skills but don't let peer pressure from broke people tell you how to handle money okay that's not logical at all i mean they mean well but they're stupid it's not that they're you know they just don't that their life doesn't have any fruit in it you know i mean do you have a friend that really, really bad at selecting the men that she dates? I have a couple of them. Then would you take their advice on whether or not you're dating a good guy?

No. Probably not. No. Their man meter's broken, right? And it's the same thing here. It's the same thing. It's just not logical. So I think you're asking the wrong questions of the wrong people

or the right questions of the wrong people. You're trying to get affirmation from a group of people that are not going to give you affirmation because they don't have the capacity to. They don't have the knowledge to do it. And their life proves that so far. It's not to say they couldn't turn it around after you do, but don't take

financial advice from broke people it's a bad plan so hold on i'm going to send you a copy of the book the financial or total money makeover and read through that and then you decide i mean we've helped millions of people get out of debt and to my knowledge we've never caused a bankruptcy, never caused somebody to be homeless. So, you know, it's not crazy. You know, I'm not telling you to cash out your 401K. I'm telling you, stop putting, including the 6% you haven't stopped yet, stop putting any money in to savings of any kind, and let's clear this dadgum debt up. You bought into it a little ways, but you didn't buy into it all the way.

And then let's go ahead and get it finished and get on a really tight budget, beans and rice, rice and beans. And if your broke friends don't understand, just smile and nod. Just smile and nod. But they're not going to understand. But don't look for affirmation in the wrong places. It'll get you in trouble in any area in your life. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jason's in New York. Hi, Jason. How are you? I'm good. What about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? I'm just trying to get an idea where to start.

I've been watching your show for quite a while now, listening to you on YouTube, and I'm not a bad saver, but I still, I'm in quite a rut, and I just kind of need some guidance to get out of the rut. What is the rut? All right, the rut is mainly what everybody calls you for, car debt. Okay. Lots of car debt. How much do you owe on your cars? Well, my wife leases a vehicle currently, and I finance a vehicle.

I owe $34,000. This is without interest. The payoff is $34,000. What's your household income? Together, we pull in about $145,000 a year. Okay. Is that your biggest debt a year. Okay. And is that your biggest debt? Yes.

Okay. Well, I mean, what I do is just sit down and lay out a game plan and say how deeply can we cut lifestyle so that we can quickly pay off both of these cars and own them free and clear. If we're unwilling to do that, then we need to sell them. But you need to be able to clear these car debts within two years. I think you can if that's your only debts with this income. You need to lay it out and say, am I going to pay a price with my lifestyle to get rid of these cars,

or am I going to get rid of the cars so I don't have to pay a price with my lifestyle? But something's going to give, dude. This is the Daveave ramsey show okay things are getting pretty weird out there i thought the equifax breach was bad enough it exposed the personal financial info of half of all Americans. Now we have breaches affecting almost every U.S. citizen, and the data stolen is more personal and equally dangerous. One company had over 230 million consumer files hacked, which included not only the home address, but info related to religion, pet lovers, smokers, you name it. And the businesses were not any luckier this time, with 110 million files hacked. It really is no longer a matter of if, it's when you'll become a victim.

That's exactly why the only plan I've ever recommended is through Zander Insurance. They cover all types of identity theft for families and businesses, and they take over all the work if you become a victim. I use it for my family and my entire team. Call 800-356-4282 or visit Zander.com. That's Zander.com. Thank you for joining us, America. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. You do not need a second mortgage to make your home over.

You get brand new custom blinds without paying custom prices at Blinds.com. Free samples, free shipping, and new promos every month if you use the promo code Ramsey. Blinds.com. Jacob is in Washington. I know you recommend putting 15% into retirement. I work for the local fire department and I have a pension plan. Do I need to save 15% over and above that or count that as part of it? Well, what I tell folks is you need to put 15% in.

Most of the time in a pension plan, you're not putting in anything. And you don't have any control over what happens with a pension plan. You don't choose the investments you don't get to um you know if the municipality in your case is poorly run they could break the pension plan it's happened before doesn't happen very much but uh no i think you need to be putting 15 percent of your income away in roth iras rothks, whatever you got to do along those lines. And that's the thing I would tell you to do. The reason is, is that way you've got, that's money you choose where it invested. And if somebody mishandles something at work, it doesn't mess up your 401k.

It doesn't mess up your Roth IRA. You are controlling your destiny. You're not waiting on someone else, the people you work for, to fix your life. That's a big deal. John's in Pittsburgh. Hey, John, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How are you today? Better than I deserve.

What's up? That's great. The reason I'm calling is, here's my question. My wife is 65. I'm 62. We're just now into getting on the snowball. We have our emergency fund saved up, but we're looking for a new place to live. The house we rent right now is just way too big for us. My wife and I both have bad knees, bad backs, and up and down the stairs is a pain in the butt all the time. My question is, the rentals around this area now are skyrocketing because there's a new cracker plant going in. So people are coming in from out of state, sucking all those up. But I found a couple of houses that I could purchase and the payment I rent right

now is $875 a month. My payment would drop to about $630 a month. The other part of it is when I retired from the post office, I rolled my first savings plan into an IRA that I can borrow enough from right now with no penalty just to be able to put 14% down on the house so I wouldn't have to pay the PMI as long. But you have to pay PMI if you don't put down 20%. No, you're too broke to buy a house. You're in debt.

You're in debt. You're borrowing against your retirement. I mean, you're straining at every corner to pull this off. And besides that, if you're moving from an 875 rental to a 600 payment you're moving down in-house substantially so if you're going to move down in-house substantially move down to a different rental and let me just tell you if the rental market is squeezed because of a plant that has come in the buying market is squeezed as well so what you're telling me is not logical You're using this as a rationalization to buy out of order.

If I were you and you call me and ask what you should do, I would rent something else, move out of that rental, move to a cheaper rental. That'd be fine for a short period of time that while you clean up your debt, you're debt free. You build your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Then you save a good down payment. And you can do all of that in a few years if you're careful and watch what you're doing, and then make your purchase. But when you buy a house and you're broke, you're asking for trouble. I mean, Murphy will move in your spare bedroom, bring his three cousins broke, desperate, and stupid.

Owning a home when you're broke can be a financial curse rather than a blessing. Steven is in Virginia Beach. Hi, Steven. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I just wanted to know what would be smarter to do. Right now, I have a Roth IRA in my name, and I know you can only put $5,500 into it a year. Yes, sir. So hypothetically, if me and my wife only had that amount of money, $5,500, to go towards investing, would it be smarter to put all of it into my Roth IRA as is, or should I open up a Roth in my wife's name and then split the $5,500 and put $2,750 in each of them and watch it grow that way. What's your household income?

Household income is $50,000. Okay. All right. So 15% of that going in at baby step four into retirement is more like $10,000. No, it would be more like $7,500. Okay. Okay. So you wouldn't fully fund two, but you could put some.

It doesn't matter which one you do mathematically. Let's say you chose the exact same mutual fund, and you put $3,000 in one and $3,000 in another. Okay. One Roth IRA in your name $3,000 in another. Okay? One Roth IRA in your name, one Roth IRA in her name. Or you put $6,000 in the same mutual fund. It's going to grow exactly the same. So it doesn't matter.

Okay. So if I even had like $1,000, I could open up one and have 500 in my name and 500 hers but it'd be the exact same exactly it doesn't it doesn't give you any mathematical advantage whatsoever the only advantage is just uh relational in that if she feels like that you know you're fully funding yours and she's not got anything for retirement which is not true because if you ever got divorced or died or anything else, she's going to get half that money even if it is in your name. Okay?

Okay. So it's not true, but sometimes people just, you know, like she just wants some in her name. That's okay. So you could do half and half if you want. You need to get to the point you're putting 15% of your income into retirement. That's baby step four, and that would be after you were out of debt and after you had your emergency fund in place, which may be why you don't have the money right now.

That's why we put baby step four after getting out of debt and after having the emergency fund. We tell folks temporarily not to save for retirement until you clear your debts. That way you have the money to put 15% away. And 15% is more than one Roth IRA for you guys. But conceptually, even if you did $7,500, $3,750 each, that'd be fine. Or if you did $5,500 and $2,000 in the other name, that's fine. If they're in the same mutual fund, you're going to get the exact same results whether you split it or not. It doesn't change a thing. James is with us

in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Hi, James. How are you? Good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? My wife and I are planning to buy a home next year, and we're having a little trouble deciding or agreeing on the type of house we want to get. Okay. I'm leaning towards getting a fixer-upper. That would be a cheaper house with lower mortgage payment,

and that gives me the opportunity to learn how to do those home repairs myself. And she wants to get a move-in ready house. Okay. And it would be your first home? This would be our second home. We had a house a while ago and then we moved and we've been renting for a little over a year now. Yeah. The other home that you had, was it a fixer-upper? It was not. It was move-in ready. Okay. All right. And so what is her fear? It's just more of we have two kids. Yeah.

And so it's just kind of a hassle to fix up a house. I didn't want anything major, just some minor cosmetic type stuff. Why couldn't you do it before you moved in then? Financially, I don't think we'd be able to afford rent and a mortgage. No, I'm saying, oh, yeah, okay, I see what you're saying. The fixer-upper would take a few months maybe, and you wouldn't have the time to do that, I got you. I'm a part-time real estate agent, so if I live in a house for two years and then turn around and sell it, I can sell it tax-free.

You sell it tax-free anyway. That's kind of my goal. You can sell it tax-free anyway. You don't have to be a real estate agent to sell a house tax-free. Your personal residence, if you live in it two years, tax-free growth on it anyway for anybody. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this. It's just a question of what you guys want to endure. It is your home.

When your home is topsy-turvy because it's being renovated all the time, I get her point. It's a valid point on hers. But you're not going to make as much money on it to your point. So it's a valid argument to have. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Richard is with us in Cincinnati. Hey, Richard, how are you? I'm good, and you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm 54 years old, and I'm about a year out from being qualified for a retirement pension. And I'm kind of wondering, if I leave in a year, I will not have health insurance. I will have to buy it.

I've been through your program. I've got just about everything paid off except for the house. And my value of that insurance per month at my current employer is like $1,100 a month. I will probably go from about $55,000 to about $40,000 when I do take the pension. Should I wait? I'd like to go in a year, but should I wait or should I go? You said you're 54 years old? Yes.

Okay. So what are you going to do if you retire? I have a farm and a small part-time business that I make about another $8,000 a year doing that I would continue to do and just farm, hunt, fish. You're pretty young to quit. Yes, well, I wouldn't say that. How much money do you have? Well, basically you are. How much money do you have in your nest egg?

Well, I have basically consisted of the two pensions, which I say will be about $40,000. I have about $120,000 in rental property. That's equity. I have about $50,000 in rental property. That's equity. I have about $50,000 in an IRA. How much do you owe on your mortgages? I owe about $60,000 on my primary residence, which is also the farm, which probably has a $200,000 plus value. Okay. And you owe mortgages on the rental too

right i do yes how much um let's say 280 000 okay so you need 260,000 to be debt-free. Yeah, I kind of plan on selling those was kind of my thinking. What are they worth? A little less than four, you know, depending on the market. There's four different properties. Are you married? Yes, I am. Does your wife work outside the home? No, she does not.

She has not worked for about three years. She had knee surgery, and then we took care of my father. And she is a little older. She is 61. We'll be eligible for Social Security next year to the tune of about $700 a month. So if you sell the rentals and pay off your house, you got about $150,000, $160,000 to your name is all with a paid-for farm. You're 55 years old, and you got a pension of $40,000. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. And when you die, what happens to the pension? It goes away, right? Probably no. It would go to my wife if she was still living would continue to receive a lesser amount. That's probably because I could take it as no survivor and probably get more. Are you healthy? Yes. I would take it as no survivor, get more and buy a 15

year level term insurance to cover your wife if something happened to you. It's a better deal. Go ahead and take all the money you can get. Okay. I currently have a $400,000 term policy. Okay. Yeah. Then she's probably all right without the survivor benefit because that's going to replace your $40,000 that you wouldn't have,

that she wouldn't have if you died. Okay? That invested at 10% would be $40,000. So that's pretty good. You're in good shape, and you can probably do it this way. I can't jump up and down and say you're in great shape. You're in a way above average shape. I mean, good shape is way above normal because normal just sucks, okay?

You got it way better than most people. But living on $40,000 a year for the rest of your life for the next 40 years is going to get old. And you don't really have any income coming other than that because your investments aren't big enough to create it. And so I would, you know, you can do it. You can do it. But I think you need to have in the back of your head you may be going back to work at some point.

I've considered that. I thought about it for the health insurance, and I've heard of these MediShare programs. Do you think those are worth it? Health insurance is not driving this for me. What's driving it for me is you don't have much money. Right. And you got the pension, but understand, think about what $40,000 is going to buy in 40 years when you are 90. Nothing.

Yeah. Nothing. That's the problem I've got here. So it doesn't have a good long-term prognosis of you guys just being able to live. If we can figure out how you could live, in other words, if you had a million dollars in mutual funds this becomes like a no-brainer instead you got like 150 200 000 maybe if we scrape everything together after the sale the rental properties and you know the farm's got value but it's not producing any money so what my what i'm thinking is and again you can do whatever you want i'm just talking it through with you okay i'm not saying you're you're wrong or you're bad or something

but that's my concern of what I'm hearing. And so I probably would think about what we always call an encore career and say, what could you do that would be really fun that you could make 50 grand or 100 grand doing for the next five or six, seven years? And you'd enjoy doing it. Start a business. You'd have fun doing it and make some bank and bank all of it and health insurance is part of the deal i don't care if you're working for somebody else you start

a business but just do something what you're doing now doesn't make you smile anymore so you need to get out of there you picked up on that huh yeah and so you service to humanity left inside of you that you could get paid for. Ideas, concepts, things you could do. I don't know what it is. But something that just, I mean, I'm just a little bit older than you. I'm 57, and, dude, I plan on working. And it's not because I need money. I don't need any money.

I got money coming out of my ears. But I'm working because And it's not because I need money. I don't need any money. I got money coming out of my ears. But I'm working because I have a blast. You ought to find something like that, and then you can work and hunt and fish and work and hunt and fish and farm and, you know. But, you know, I'd like to see you bank another $500 or $600 grand in the next eight years and have fun doing it. That's what I'm saying. That's the only challenge I've got is I think there's –

God's got something inside of you. There's something you could do more than hunting and fishing that – not that that's evil or bad. It's not. You've earned the right to do that. And you should get out of the place you're getting out of. But what's your encore career? You take a bow and you come back out to the stage for the encore.

That's what the encore career is. And a lot of people make a lot of money in that richard so and it's not that money's everything but i i just want you to have a little more pad between you and murphy than this scenario gives me here and i think there's some magic left inside of you that we all need still that's what i'm saying and it might be you take a year and you do nothing but hunt, fish and farm. And then you say at the end of that year, I'm going to go do X. And that's OK. But but 90 for the next 40 years, you're going to get tired of fishing.

You know, it's a lot of fishing. So find something makes you smile again, dude. That's all I'm saying. So I'm going to send you a copy of a book that I think you'll enjoy. It's called Start, because you're starting a fresh chapter. And I think you'll enjoy this. Thank you for calling in. It's an honor to talk to you, sir.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Our scripture of the day, 1 John 3.18 Little children, let us not love in word or talk, but in deed and in truth. Abigail Adams said, We have too many high-sounding words and too few actions that correspond with them. Wendy is with us in Seattle. Hi, Wendy. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm calling because I have an interesting situation. My husband and I are just starting Baby Step 2,

and our oldest son actually introduced us to you. He's 19 and pretty gung-ho. But our daughter, who's just a little bit older than him, just got married, and we are in the process of selling a car, one of our cars, to help with our snowball, and she wants to purchase our vehicle. We're selling it for $9,000, and she only has about half of that. Her and her husband only have about half of that saved. Then they should not buy a $9,000 car.

Right, exactly. My question, I guess, is do we refuse to sell it to her, or do we, because she's like, it's my life, I can buy it. I can buy it if I want to, but it it's our car so i don't know if we should just refuse to oh she's wanting to go get a loan from the bank and buy the car right okay um well i mean there's two there's two things that pull here. One is she's a grown person, and we don't tell our grown kids what to do. We merely try to influence them. But the other thing that's at pull is would I do something,

would I participate in an activity with one of my children that I thought was bringing them harm even if they're grown? And the answer to that would be no. And you are working to get out of debt. And you are working to get out of debt. Your son is working to get out of debt. You guys have made the decision that being in debt on cars and these other things is a bad idea. It's not good for your finances.

And to turn around and put her in debt or participate in an activity, it's not an act of love. And so I appreciate her sentiment that she's standing on her own and she can do whatever she wants she's right but as your mom if i'm 90 and you're 85 and you're and you're 70 or whatever i i'm still going to love you and i'm still not going to participate in an activity that's bringing you harm. I love you too much to do that. And if you don't understand that, you have the right to be mad or you have the right to think that I'm out of line,

but I just cannot in good conscience participate in an activity that's not good for you. I love you. No, I wouldn't sell it to her okay if i were in if i were in your shoes i'm just thinking through how i would i've got grown kids and if one of them came to me and said you know i want to do this thing and you're going to participate in this thing that that that i don't agree with and that i don't think is good with them good for them then i'm not going to do it they should should buy a $5,000 car and pay cash for it. Now, how much debt do you have, not counting your home? Us, we have $100,000.

And what is your household income? $180,000. Okay, so how quickly are you going to have the $100,000 paid, do you think? We're looking at two years. That's about as long as it should take, max. $50,000 a year making $180,000 is not exactly deeply sacrificing. Now, given all of those numbers, $4,000 doesn't matter much. You could just sell her the car for $4,000 or $5,000.

Okay. And not, you know, but no, I won't sell it to you where you go into debt. I'm not going to participate in that activity. Okay. But if you want to sell it to her cheap and just help her, because the $4,000 doesn't move the needle much out of $100. You follow me? What moves the needle out of $100 is you getting really emotional

about deeply sacrificing and using this huge income you have to clear this debt really, really fast. So given those numbers, I might give up some of my value in the car. You guys scrape together $500, and you pay me cash, $5,000, and you can have the car. I might do that. But, honey, I am not going to participate with you going into debt. If you're going to do that, you're going to have to do it somewhere else

because I love you too much to participate in something that brings harm to you. And that's even if my kids are grown. And that's not me interfering in their life, and that's not me being a control freak. It's I'm not going to participate in anything that I don't think is good for you that brings you harm, because I care about you. And if they can't get that statement, then they are obstinate little rebellious twits. Seriously.

I mean, that's just, I mean, if they can't hear love coming from you that way, then there's something wrong. But in your case, with the numbers, I might. If you all want to just sell it to that way, then there's something wrong. But in your case, with the numbers, I might. If you all want to just sell it to them cheap, that's okay, too. Either one's fine with me. But no, going into debt's not an option. Amy is with us in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Amy.

How are you? Good. Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I've been listening to you for a couple of weeks, and all of a sudden I started filling out college applications with my daughter. My son's already in college, and right now I'm, like I said, in the fall,

but he already has like $10,000 in school loans, and then we have $14,000 in a Parent PLUS loan. And so I'm just struggling to know how do I get through this and how do I get them through college. Where is he in school? Washington State University. Okay, and what is the tuition? About, well, the first year it's 27, oh, tuition.

It is around, I can't even think. Twelve. Eight, is it? Twelve thousand. Okay, twelve thousand. Probably pretty close. I might be a little off, but it should be about there. In-state tuition, in-state school, something like that.

The national average is about ten, but I think Washington's a little bit higher. Okay. And so that's the tuition only, and he's living away from home on campus. No, he's's living away from home on campus? No, he's not living on campus. He's living in a house where he's paying very minimal for rent. Okay, that's good news. Okay, is he working?

Yes. He works about 25 hours per week right now, but he does make about $14 an hour. Oh, that's decent. Okay, good. Yeah. Good. Okay, and we've got to get him on a really, really tight budget, and he needs to be applying for scholarships left and right.

Yeah. And you guys help him sit down and figure out what you can contribute to the equation. So between his hard work, between the scholarships, and your contribution, and the fact that he's in a reasonably inexpensive school, we just sit down and really iron the wrinkles out of this and figure out how we can pull it all together and make it happen with no more debt and don't add any more debt. Okay, so then my question is, we have a car loan for $13,500, and then he's got the Parent PLUS loan.

Now, do I start hammering on the Parent PLUS loan, or do I hammer on the car loan? The car loan. The car loan, and then the Parent PLUS loan? Yes. Okay, because I didn't know if that, because, you know, when you go down your steps, I didn't know if invest for kids was. It's number five, but we're not investing for kids. We're just trying to cash flow with him and help him get through with no more new debt. You're not, you're past the point of saving for college.

You're trying to get through college now. Yes, and then my daughter, who's starting in the fall, she is filling out scholarships. She does have, we do have some money, you know, not much, but a little bit of money saved. Good. She works. Good. She needs to work like an animal. And she needs to be filling out like 10 scholarship applications a day.

And again, she chooses an inexpensive school, the least expensive option possible, because you guys are broke and you're trying to pull this together as a family and get these two kids through school. And again, she chooses an inexpensive school, the least expensive option possible, because you guys are broke and you're trying to pull this together as a family and get these two kids through school. It can be done, but it's going to require a lot of work, a lot of scholarships, and choosing the inexpensive school option. And there's no shame in that game. Lots of people do it every day. And other people go $100,000 in debt. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, guys, Kelly Daniel, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, this hour of the show is over, but you can find our podcast on iTunes or Google Play. We're everywhere, for free, here to serve you.