The Ramsey Show - App - Advice on Saving for a Car While Paying Down Debt (Hour 1)

Episode Date: January 31, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home market has taken the place of BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show, America. Thank you for joining us. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Stacey starts off this hour in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Stacey. How are you?

Hi, Dave. Nice speaking to you. You too. What's up in your world? Okay. So I listen to you every single day for almost a year. Now, I'm on baby step two, and my student loan is the highest. So it's on the bottom. It's on the debt snowball. Good. However, I'm on a income something, you know, repayment for the student loan,

where everything I pay to the student loan goes only to the interest. So I was wondering if I should just go ahead and tackle everything else first through the monthly payments and do the debt snowball for all my other debts. And then when I'm finished with those, then tackle the student loan. You're paying payments on the student loan, right? But they're just, they're the income-based repayments. So they're small payments, right student loan, right? But they're the income-based repayments, so they're small payments, right? Yes, they're small, but when I looked at the website, everything is going only to the interest, everything that I pay. Yeah, that's fine.

Just continue to do that. Yeah, the debt snowball says pay minimum payments to everything except your smallest debt. List your smallest to largest debts as the the debt snowball attack, the smallest one. Work your way down. So here's the thing. Let's say that you raise the payments to your student loan. So that you would cover the interest plus some on principle. That would decrease mathematically what you're putting on your smallest debt by that same exact amount, right?

Yes. And therefore, slow down that one. So one of these is going to be slowed down. And I'm going to choose the larger one to run slowly. You're going to get to it when you get to it. How much is the student loan debt? $18,000. Okay, good.

So it's not huge, huge. It's just your largest debt. And what's your income? $64,000. Good, good. Okay, all right. So this is all very doable. Yeah, just keep the payments where they are on the income-based repayment.

Work your debt snowball. When you get down to your last debt, which is your student loan, you're going to put big chunks on it, and it's going to go away very fast. Okay. Awesome. I'm trying to think what else okay hey thank you for the call i appreciate you joining us open phones at 888-825-5225 amy is in little rock hi amy how are you hi dave i'm doing great good i have um i just recently got married and my husband and i are

um starting on the baby steps and we start we start our first budget today. Wow look at you. We have a question about whether or not we should be saving up basically an insurance truck fund knowing that his vehicle has 200,000 miles on it and he drives at least 500 miles a week. Just knowing that there's a potential that that could blow up on us at any time moving forward. We currently have $46,000 in consumer debt. We just paid off $16,000 a couple weeks ago. Good. And our take-home pay is at a minimum $100,000 a year,

and we feel confident that we can knock out this consumer debt in a year. Good. I think you can. So my question, I guess, is should we, instead of paying it off in a year, should we set aside a fund for... No, no. Don't set it aside. Just go ahead and pay it off. Work your baby steps.

$1,000 in savings, and you're driving a $1,000, he's driving a $1,000 or $2,000 truck. You know, it's on its last leg. We know that. And we're going to work like crazy now if something happens and this truck just falls over okay and you need a thousand or two you need more than a thousand dollars to fix it to keep it running until you finish this year then you got to stop and buy a truck is what we're saying at that point and what you're going to need to do

then is you're just going to stop everything, all things, and just concentrate on building you a really quick truck fund and get you a $3,000 truck or something to get through. Right. But you make enough money to buy a $3,000 truck in one month. Sure. Sure, yeah. Right now, his truck is a 2006 Toyota Tacoma, and Kelley Blue Book lists it for private sale for $9,700. Oh, my goodness.

So it's still worth a little. I got to tell you, listen, we call them tacos. We got a couple of them in our family, these Tacomas. Those things, man, they go forever. They are wonderful vehicles. Right. We're counting on that, but we just didn't know. My son has one that's probably almost 10 years old.

It has never seen the inside of a repair shop, ever. I mean, it's amazing. They're great cars. So, yeah, that makes me feel even better about the advice, the quality of the vehicle you're driving. And so, yeah, Tacos are just awesome, man. Those Tacomas are, I'm a fan. So, yeah, here's the other thing. When you do get ready to buy a truck uh this time next year

because you're debt free and you're saving up for a truck above your emergency fund okay right when you do get ready keep in mind that whatever he buys he is destroying its value by the miles he's putting on it right i mean when you put 30 000 miles a year on a car you're a road warrior and road warriors whatever he drives so if he drives a ten thousand dollar car he destroys its value if he drives a fifty thousand dollar car he destroys its value so you want him driving the minimum car forever that will get the job done now get the job done is it has to be reliable and comfortable he spends a lot of time in the car so it needs to be reasonably comfortable we're not putting him in a 96 dodge neon you know he would be in the

chiropractor's office right so he needs something reasonably comfortable and it has to be reasonably comfortable. We're not putting him in a 96 Dodge Neon. You know, he would be in the chiropractor's office, right? So he needs something reasonably comfortable, and it has to be reliable. So he does need to move up in truck, but he doesn't need to move up to a brand-new $30,000 one. Right. That would be a mistake because you're going to destroy its value, even if you don't destroy the truck, with the amount of miles he's putting on it. Now, if he wants a car that's not his daily driver in the driveway later on in addition to his one he's destroying that his car that he enjoys a little bit more his truck he enjoys a little bit more that's fine pay cash for

it it's part of your overall financial plan as you get further along you guys are really doing good very very well done i mean you're focused're intense, you're coming back from the honeymoon, starting everything. Hey, game on. Way to go. Way to go, kiddo. Proud of you. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. Saul is on Facebook.

Dave, is there a certain company you recommend for term life insurance? No. recommend for term life insurance no i recommend a insurance broker on any kind of insurance that shops among several different companies to get you the best possible buy not what we call a captive agent that only sells one brand and usually the captive agents are not do not have the almost always they don't have the cheapest rates. So we have recommended for well over almost 20 years now Zander Insurance because they're a fabulous insurance broker for life insurance. If you go to ZanderInsurance.com, enter your information, boom,

it will pop up and give you a term quote from a bunch of different companies. It'll show you the comparison right there, and then you can pick which one you want, and I'd pick it based on price if I were you. It's pretty simple stuff. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet, but they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that

one family has the right amount of term life insurance and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen. Their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to ZanderInsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible.

It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Common sense for your dollars and cents. Erica is in Chicago. Hi, Erica. How are you? Hi, I'm great.

Thanks, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up um i have a question so my grandma bought a whole life insurance policy for me when i was just two years old and i know i know i know you prefer term insurance so um the reason why i'm calling is because i'm looking at the statement now and it says the paid up insurance is about $4,500 and the cash surrender value is a little over $4,000. So if I cancel this account and go towards the term, how much, so would I be getting that cash surrender value?

Yes. Okay. So even though the death benefit is $30,000 right now, I'd be only getting $4,000, correct? Correct. Okay. And so when I cancel, what happens to the death benefit? That just immediately goes away? Yes.

Okay. So then when I cancel and I take that $4,000, do you recommend just putting that into good growth stock mutual funds? Yes. Or wherever you are in your baby steps. Okay. Yeah. I'm on baby step four, five, and six. So when I do the term insurance, so I'm 27 years old. I don't have any kids. And my income, I expect it to change over the next few years. Are you married? So I am not, no. Do you have any money saved at all?

I do. I have a fully funded emergency fund, and I'm just beginning to invest right now. Okay. Do you need life insurance? I don't know. That's kind of why I'm asking. Is anyone going to be harmed financially if you were to pass away this year? No. Okay.

Then I don't think you need life insurance. Okay. You have enough to bury you in the emergency fund, so mom and dad don't have to bear that cost, right? Correct. You're a single 27-year-, so mom and dad don't have to bear that cost, right? Correct. You're a single 27-year-old lady, and you don't need life insurance. Okay, so then once my life kind of changes and I either get a husband or children, then that's the time that I do the term? Yes, because then he would be left to raise those kids without your income,

and the household would have come to count on your income. Right, okay. And then you would get about 10 times your income, 10 to 12 times your income in 15 to 20-year level term. Okay, not 30? No. Okay, interesting. Because you're not going to need insurance for 30 years.

Let's say you're 32 and you have a 2-year-old and a 4-year-old. Okay, we'll just pretend like this happened fast or something. Okay, but anyway, all right. And 20 years later, you would have a 22 and a 24-year-old. 20 years later, your house would be paid for if you listen to us because you're never on more than a 15 year mortgage 20 years later the kids are grown and gone the house is paid for and you would have been investing in your 401k and you'd have 500 000 to a million dollars in your 401k so at that point you're 52 years old the kids are grown and gone there's a 700 000 in a 401k and the house is paid for if you die i think your husband could struggle through so your need for life

insurance only is dependent upon whether someone is left behind struggling because your income's not there and if you're debt-free millionaires and the kids aren't at home you don't have any issue with somebody being left behind struggling that's why you only need a 15 to a 20-year level term. Okay, and in the event that income changes, that amount... You just bump it up and around. I see. Yeah. I mean, I've changed mine 10 times as my kids were growing up,

and then I let it lapse as we didn't need it, and then Sharon just decided she wanted some. I have some life insurance that's absolutely stupid financially because i like my wife is going to struggle i mean we've got tens of millions of dollars she's not going to struggle okay but she would rather have some more millions of dollars than she would another ring upon my death and so instead of a diamond she gets a life insurance policy because it's what she wants. It's SWI. It makes no sense, though.

It's just because it's what she wanted. Okay. And so should I skip baby step five then since I don't have children? Okay. So then as soon as that's in the plans, then I should start a 529. And let's stop for a second and go back to the early part of our conversation. You have paid up insurance, which means they're not charging you monthly for this $30,000 policy with a $4,000 cash value, correct? Correct. Okay. Let's understand that that is an industry term

that is a lie. Okay. There's no such thing as... Can you explain that? Yeah, I'm going to. I can't resist. Okay. There's no such thing as paid i'm going to i can't resist okay there's no such thing as paid up insurance because here's what happens as long as you're breathing there's a statistical probability of your death and as long as there's a statistical probability of your death there is a cost to cover you it's only a matter of where that cost is being covered your life insurance didn't become free it's the fact that they are paying you almost nothing on your four thousand dollars and had that four thousand dollars been invested well it would have bought you a bazillion times more than thirty thousand dollars worth of term so the fact that if you took four thousand dollars and you

made four hundred bucks on it instead of four4 on it, then you easily buy $30,000, $300,000 worth of term at your age. Okay? And so it's just coming out of the fact that your $4,000 is invested with them so poorly, and they're making bank off your $4,000 and tossing you some crumbs called a $30,000 life insurance policy and acting like they did you a favor. It's not paid up. It's just coming out of a very poor return on investment, and they're making the spread on your money. That's where it comes from. There's no such thing as insurance having no cost.

As long as there's a probability of the event, the insurance statistically has a cost. It's just a matter of where it's being paid for so paid up is bs is what it amounts to for you people around the life insurance world that's just absolutely a misnomer it's a lie it's a branding lie and it's you're taking the money out of your savings you know and so it's like your bank if you put a hundred thousand dollars in your bank and they pay you one percent on it but they give you a a free toaster you think a toaster was free no you missed out on all the returns of the hundred thousand dollars while you're getting one percent over at the bank but you got a toaster you know that's about how stupid this is and not not you erica but i

mean this the industry and and they run around acting like they're doing something for you but you just have to remember where your money is parked and what they're making on you while you're parking your money somewhere a very very important part of this conversation so good question thank you for joining us. Matt's in Orange County. Hi, Matt. How are you? I'm doing great, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

Certainly. How can I help? So my wife and I are on Baby Step 2, and my question really doesn't revolve around Baby Step 2. It involves us paying our mortgage. So right now we are on a 30-year note, but we are paying the mortgage as if are on a 30-year note, but we are paying the mortgage as if it were a 15-year note. Since we have about $50,000 in our baby step two to pay off, should

I go back to paying the house on a 30-year note? How long is it going to take you if you stop? If you pay it like a 30, how long is it going to take you to pay it off uh the debt yeah uh right now we're about two years if i go back to paying it if i'm i'm sorry yeah if right now i'm paying it at 15 i'm at about a year and a half if i go to if i go back to the 30 i'm about two years now that would be the other way around i'm'm sorry, I said that the wrong way. Yeah, you're correct. Okay, gotcha. Okay, so we're only discussing six months.

Correct. Doesn't matter. Okay. Not that big a deal, whichever one you want to do. I mean, you figured out the problem is, it's a math problem, is that, you know, you're basically by not paying down your mortgage, you're using some of that to get out of debt a little faster. But then you'll catch up on the other side when you don't have any debts and you start working your baby steps four, five, six. You're going to knock out the mortgage that much faster. So because you're getting there six months sooner.

So the math will work out at the end of 10 years. Exactly the same either way. Plus or minus a little bit of interest rate during this six-month period of time we're discussing. So it's just whichever one you prefer to do. I'm good either way. I'm probably going to go back to a 30 and knock it out and then go back to a 15 minimum at Baby Step 6, 456. Thanks for calling. New Testament Principles Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major healthcare costs.

Christian Healthcare Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry, a Better Business Bureau-accredited organization CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org.

Thank you for joining us, America. Nick is on the line in Detroit. Hi, Nick. How are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I wanted to get your advice on something my wife and I are considering. We are $140,000 in student loan debt, and we have a house that we ought not have bought when we did based on your system.

And we were just approached by a realtor telling us that we could get, you know, $50,000 to $60,000 out of our house if we sell it now. Equity. We're mulling that over. And, you know, we've got three little kids, a decent emergency fund, and just kind of wondering what the right step is. It would really sort of kick our debt in the teeth. How much do you have in your emergency fund?

$17,000. Okay. And what is your household income? Just under $120,000. Good. What do you all do for a living? I'm an attorney, and my wife is a stay-at-home mom. So this is law school debt? Yes, it is, sir. How much other debt do you have? None. Good. Okay. What is the home worth? About $260,000. Okay. And so you owe about $200,000? Yeah. Okay.

Well, yeah, we owe about $188,000, but net of expenses and everything, I'm thinking we'd get $40,000 to $50,000 out of the transaction. Yeah, probably $50,000. Yeah. Okay. Do you like your home in general? Yeah, we do. Can I throw another detail in there? You can. So my wife and I have decided, and we've talked with my law firm about this,

and we're likely to relocate to Florida in the next couple of years. And so that's sort of in the background. So it's like, do we make this jump now? Do we wait? When you relocate to Florida, will you stay with the same law firm? Yes. Okay, so they have branches there. Yep. Okay, and so your income would remain similar.

Yeah. Okay, good. No, I would not sell your house today. If you're going to leave in the next three years, you're going to move twice in three years rather than once in three years. Moving with little kids especially and a wife at home is emotionally very expensive. It's financially expensive. It shuts down everything for a period of time.

It's a dadgum adventure, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's just not fun so i would rather you um use the energy you would have used and the money you would have used moving reducing the debt when you move to florida rent yeah and finish the debt off so if it's not gone by then uh but i mean if you do 120 000 a year and you do 30 000 a year it could almost be gone by the time you leave in three years. If you do it faster than that, it could be gone when you leave. And then you would take your equity and buy your next home in Florida.

Gotcha. If the debt is gone. And so let's have an idea that let's play a game that we're going to use the energy and money we would have used to move, and let's use that to get this debt paid off during this three years so that when we move to Florida, we don't use the home equity to pay off the remaining debt. We use it to buy our next home, and let's just make that our game and our goal. And I think you can do it. Because also what's going to happen is you're probably going to get some raises in the next three years.

Hoping so. Yeah. I mean, it's likely your income is going to get some raises in the next three years. Hoping so. Yeah. I mean, it's likely your income is going to go up, not down, you know. Right, yeah. And so all of that, and of course... I'll be a partner in a couple years. Yeah, and of course you know we tell you baby step one is $1,000, not $17,000. I know, I know.

And that was the second question if I had time to get to it. My wife wanted me to ask you, you know. Are we overdoing it on the emergency fund? You are. We've got three little kids, and our house payment is $1,500. You're also an attorney that makes $120,000 a year, so you're okay. Yeah. You're okay. I mean, we're not talking about that long a period of time.

Again, you guys do what you want to do. I have found this amazing thing happens. You know how intense law school was? Yeah. You remember? You know how they tell you in law school not to work an extra job, not to work an outside job because you're just probably not going to make it? You can only do one thing and get through law school, and that's law school?

Mm-hmm. When you completely focus anything in your life, like when you were dating your wife, you didn't focus on anything else but her? When you completely focus anything in your life for a period of time, you can move that thing. When you try to do five things at once, very seldom do you do any of them well. And getting out of debt is just like going to law school. It's just like dating your future wife.

If you're going to be good at it, you've got to focus on that and almost to the exclusion of everything else. That's what all of our data shows, and that's why we've been able to get so many people out of debt. We inspire them to go out on a limb with only $1,000 in the bank and clip coupons and not go in restaurants and live on consignment sale clothes, even though my husband's an attorney, and not go on vacation because we want this debt paid off we want this debt paid off before we sell our house and move to florida so we can use the house equity which by then will not be 260 it'll be 360 and now we're not going to have 50 000 put down we have

150 000 to put down in florida of course florida houses will be more expensive by then too but you're on your way see that and that you know, this one thing at a time, the beauty of the baby steps, the beauty of the debt snowball is the one thing at a time, that power of focus. And that's what I'm going to inspire you towards if I can. Ty is with us in Springfield, Illinois. Hey, Ty. Hello. What's up?

So my question is, I'm considering consolidating student loans, and we're also thinking about buying a home soon, so I want to know if that's the best move to make right now. No. No. Okay. You shouldn't buy a home while you've got student loan debt. I should not. Okay. No, you should not.

Because you're going to have to buy an extra bedroom for Sally Mae. That's true. When you're broke and you buy a house extra bedroom for Sally Mae. That's true. When you're broke and you buy a house, that house will be a curse rather than a blessing. And so I want you to get a house almost as badly as you want to get a house. I think home ownership is a big part of wealth building long term. But when you're broke and you buy a house, you're asking for trouble. So I want you to clean up the mess before you buy. And then when you buy, you have this strange peace come over you instead of this wave of stress.

Okay. You see what I'm saying? So let's have the same goal, but let's do it in a way. Let's build the brick house. If you've ever read The Three Little Pigs, let's build the brick house instead of the house of straw. Takes longer, but then when the world huffs and puffs and life huffs and puffs it doesn't blow you over and because you got money and you don't have debt so how much student loan debt you got about 80k okay household incomes what about 40 who's not working okay i'm working

yeah you're it was not working you're, my husband, he makes about 80. Oh, I said household income. Yes, that's true. That would be 120. Yes, sir. Okay, all right, good. That's much better on 80. So $80,000 in student loan debt, how much do you owe on your cars?

Oh, gosh. My car is paid for, but he is, well, about $40,000 on the car. Good Lord. All right. And what's your car worth? Maybe $5,000. Okay, good. All right.

So now we're at $120,000 in debt, counting the car and the student loan. How much other debt have we got? Well, you don't have a house. How much other debt have you got? We have maybe another additional $7 additional seven in his student loan. Okay, cool. All right. So now we're married.

Now we're French. It's we. Our debt. Our debt. He drives the car, but it's our debt. He had a student loan. You had a student loan. But now we have $87,000 in student loans.

Yes. Eighty of them happen to be yours. That's where they came from. But now, I mean, he married you, so he's got this, and you married him, and he's got this ridiculous love for cars. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm selling this car.

It's between you and your house. It's keeping you from getting a house. Because you have a stinking $800 a month car payment. Yeah. That's insanity. Mm-hmm. It's not winning. You're looking good, and you're broke.

That's true. Texans say, big and you're broke. That's true. Texans say, big hat, no cattle. That's true. You know? And I want you to actually, I don't care how you look, I want you to be wealthy. Right. And have a house that you like and you love and it's got nice furniture in it that you pay cash for and two nice cars in the driveway that you pay cash for.

But the best way to get there is not have all these payments coming out your ears. So you've got about two years of work, including selling the car to clean up all this debt and then save up for your house if you're smart. If you go to it the other way, you're just going to be one of those normal people. And they look good, those normal people, but they're broke. I mean, they got nice stuff, but they're broke like you. I mean, you look good from the outside, but you're just broke. I've been just like you, Ty.

That's why I'm picking on you. Love you. Get it done. I'll help you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Matt is in Fort Lauderdale.

Hey, Matt, how are you? Good, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. I enjoyed meeting you this weekend. Thank you, sir. How can I help? I've got a question about my son. I've got two boys.

One's doing great. One's doing terrible. He's turning 18 on Friday. Just graduated high school this week. He was living with me for about four months. I relocated to a different home so that I would have room for him and he could go to college down here. He is in rebellion, multiple arrest, drug use. If I repeated what he called my wife just before he left and went to his mother's, I'd get you thrown off the air.

He's now living with his mom and incredibly angry at me, calling my wife all kinds of words. And I'm trying to struggle with the balance between do I help him with, at this stage in this state of mind, with tech school? Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Okay, and how do I – I'm struggling with feeling selfish about not doing that. Dude, anybody calls my wife that doesn't get any of my money, ever.

Okay. If it's that simple, I appreciate you doing that. Yeah, I mean, I had a 15- a 15 year old daughter one time i won't say which one was saying stuff to her mama as i walked in and i said you may be willing to talk to your mother that way but no one talks to my wife that way and lives okay you know i mean really that that's this little guy i mean he's crossed the line he's crossed the line so listen you want my help then you play by my rules. And my rules are good for not selfish.

It's not selfish. You're protecting your wife. Okay. And, you know, and for that matter, if you endorse this behavior by giving him money, that doesn't turn him into a 30-year-old man. He's a little twit. Now, I hope he turns into a 30-year-old man, but right now he's a twit. You and I have to agree to that, you know? Yeah.

He could turn around. I mean, I was a twit when I was 18, so I kind of recognize it. Right, right, right. You know, but I mean, he's not on a path that's going to lead him anywhere positive. Okay. No, I appreciate it. And I guess the corollary, part of the question then is, let's say he does have a come-to-Jesus moment, and I pray for that every day. Amen.

And that does happen. I put him through private school to finish his high school because he couldn't survive in a regular environment. But it was a battle, a battle. Every time something gets hard, it's a major ordeal to get him to continue. Right. well. Every time something gets hard, it's a major ordeal to get him to continue. I don't want to get on the hook for tuition or anything like that. So my thought process is, hey, buddy, go out, pay for the first semester. I don't even want to hear how you do it. I will reimburse you up to X number of dollars upon completion of the semester with a grade point of a 3.0 or better. Yeah, let's stop a second. The thing we want to do here, once we have a come-to-Jesus meeting, a repentance, okay?

Right. Until there's a repentance, a turning from this behavior, you cannot endorse it financially because it's not good for him. You're giving a drunk a drink. You're rewarding his misbehavior. And no one else in this world is going to reward this kind of behavior he won't be able to hold a job he won't be able to hold a marriage he won't be able to hold anything with the way he's acting and so what's good for him is for life to get hard and push him to his knees now once he's there then you you say, all right, the way you ask yourself the question is, how can I help him in a way that causes him to be the 30-year-old man that he needs to be?

Okay. What are the steps? And if the step is the one you suggested there, then that's an okay. If that's the way you answer the question, okay, I think the best way to help you is let you gut it out for one semester, and then I'll get involved. Or, you know, the best way to help you is I'll match you. You know, whatever you come up with, I'll put some with it. But the instant that you stop behaving in a way that represents good moral character and politeness to family members as part of that, then you're going to get no more money that instant.

And I'm not going to beg you to go to school or do your studies. You're freaking 18 years old. So if you go and you study and you get good grades and you live a life consistent with moral character and politeness and manners and decisions that are going to lead you to being a good 30-year-old man, I'm going to support that track financially because it's good for him. See, there's nothing selfish in this discussion at all.

It's all in how are we going to help him. But, you know, if he's doing heroin and we give him money because we feel selfish, have we got we're going to kill our kid they're going to die of a heroin overdose right true and all that is is one kind of misbehavior this is another kind of misbehavior you cannot finance this behavior it's because it's not good for him true okay he's not going to turn out unless he changes. Exactly. He's going to end up in a ditch all of his life due to his selfish, immature, rebellious ways. And, hey, a lot of us went through stuff like that. A lot of us were stupid, man.

I mean, I was a half a notch better, you know. And so I'm just saying that, you know, the only way you can reward this kid with anything, even your presence and your politeness and so forth, is you're rewarding a positive direction. But I wouldn't tolerate any person on the planet treating my wife that way. Okay. Okay. No, that definitely helps, Dave. I do appreciate it.

Sure. I got to tell you, it's really hard what you're going through. I'm sorry you're facing this. I appreciate all your wisdom, and I am looking forward to my first Waffle House Thanksgiving this fall. Well, it doesn't have to be Waffle House. That was a metaphor. No, that's what I'm talking about. Hey, pick up the book Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud, and it will help you clarify some of the stuff that you and I were just discussing.

It will give you some verbiage around it and some constructs around it. Henry's a wonderful Christian guy and is a brilliant, brilliant psychologist, psychiatrist. And so really this book is a life's work of his, and you've got to read it. It's perfect for this situation, and it'll give you good guidelines. But, yeah, you can't allow someone that's being that way around your family. That's awful, though. It's sad that young man's acting that way. But we're not going to tolerate that stuff.

So, open phones at 888-825-5225. You know, let's extend that a little bit. We've got a large number of you listening that have a young male under 30 that's living in your basement and is, in some cases, is behaving in a way that you wouldn't tolerate off of anyone else. So you're enabling not only their lack of productivity and their lack of emotional growth to become a standalone adult in the real world but you're also enabling their misbehavior and so the rule of thumb is if you're going to have a grown person in your house they need to abide by your rules and your values in other words

if you're going to live under my roof you're not going to do drugs you're going to live under my roof you're not going to come home drunk every night you'll live under my roof you're not going to do drugs you're going to live under my roof you're not going to come home drunk every night you're going to live under my roof you're going to get a job or six of them and keep it if you're going to live under my roof you're going to be in church on sunday morning and if you don't want to do that it's okay but the people that live under my roof that's what they do if you're not under my roof it's okay you can decide whatever you want to some of you don't like that that's fine you don't have to live under my roof it's okay but i'm the king of that dadgum castle and i make the rules there and even the dogs go along with that they're going to behave in a way that is good for them and good for our household. Even the pets behave.

And that's not mean. It's not nasty. It's not disciplinarian. It's not any of those things. It's a simple thing of we've got a set of values that we've ascribed to our family that cause us to win long term? What are you going to be when you're 30 if you're 26 right now? If you're 23 right now and you're living in your mother's basement, what are you going to be when you're 30?

And what's the best set of circumstances to get you there? To manhood? To womanhood? You've got to think about this. Turkey, you know, any eagle that stays in the nest too long is known as a turkey. you gotta think about this turkey you know any eagle that stays in the nest too long

is known as a turkey that puts us out of the Dave Ramsey show in the books hey it's Kelly associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey show

if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.