The Ramsey Show - App - Am I Bankrupt? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

What up, what up? This is the Ramsey Show live from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw and we are taking your calls on your relationships, your emotional and mental health, your money, building wealth, retirement, all of it. We're talking about work you love, anything and everything

going on in your life. 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. Give us a call. We're taking live calls. Let's go out to Green Bay, Wisconsin, formerly home of Aaron Rodgers, and talk to Adam. Hey, Adam, what's up?

How we're doing? How about you guys? We're doing fantastic, man. What's up? Well, let's start with the good. I don't have any personal debt between me and my wife. We run a business, and I'm drowning. Business is drowning. Tell me about it. Well, we're the last of a dying breed, I'd say. We're still here trying to, you got to live in

milk and cows and I just can't make it scale. I can not make, I mean, I've worn out several pencils and I just can't, I can't make it work. Can I ask a question? You made the point of saying you don't have any personal debt. Do you have what you're considering business debt? Yep. Okay. How much? That's all in an LLC.

Okay. It's an LLC. Okay. But how much? Mortgage is 1.2 and there's 300 in open accounts. Oh, man. Okay. You can't breathe, can you?

Nope. How long have you been farming? Forever. Okay. So for those listening, normally this is where someone calls and says they took out $1.2 million loan for their business and they're running a $300,000 revolving account and we get all fired up and holler at them. And I want everyone listening to hear me slow down because my heart's broken for you, Adam. Because as a farmer who's been a farmer forever, you generational farmer?

I'm fourth. 139 years. This is you standing back and looking at a family legacy that's going to be different after today. And that's a death. and I'm sorry. I'm heartbroken for you. Tell me about the challenges you're having. When you say you can't scale it, is it the size of the debt? Is it the fluctuating prices?

What is it? I mean, price doesn't help anything for sure. In 2015, I took over from my dad, and I looked at the spreadsheet, and it wasn't going to work how he was doing it. So I borrowed, you know, I signed the paper and borrowed a half a million bucks, and some stuff happened, and it didn't cash flow. The first two, three years of it, cash flowed excellent. I was doing $700,000, $750,000 a year. I didn't have schools.

And the price fell, and as soon as I couldn't cover my payment completely, my bank was not willing to work with me at all and in the last year now going back and forth they sold me to an investment company in new york and i have till the end of this year to either figure out how to make a full payment or they're going to foreclose on me take your farm family land uh, 520 acres. Golly, dude. What's the payment?

16K a month. Right now I'm paying the interest just to 10. Okay. What are you going to owe them at the end of this year? What check do you have to write? It would be 1.2. You have to write them for the full amount they're calling the note? They would be calling the note, yeah.

Either they call the note or it would get re-signed for seven years at $16,000 a month. And you can't make that? Not with the current amount of cows I have right now. What would it take? 100 cows. And what do you got? I'm milking 100 currently. I'd have to be 200 plus.

Jeez, man. So what's the worth of this land? Pardon So what's the worth of this land? Pardon? What's the worth of the land? It's over $1.2 million. So can you... I mean, I don't want to be the one to say this, but I think selling it is worse than foreclosing on it. You're in a hard mess, brother.

Yeah, I mean, I can, if I had. Are you breaking up or are you thinking through this? I'm sorry, I was getting away from my phone. Okay. You know, if I could get into $100. Adam, Adam, Adam, Adam. Basically, it's better overnight. But that causes you going into debt, right? You've been doing this dance for a long time.

I have. Yeah. Hear us sitting with you, man. We're not running from it, but we're not going to lie to you either. Right. You've been waiting for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing over the hill, and now you owe a million dollars. And you've become, and you've read about these farmers you probably know a few farmers like this they get looped up in the debt cycle and what the big investment firms want is your dirt and they find farmers like you who are generational farmers who are trying to keep up

with technology and the cratering prices and they see 500 acres that's about to be theirs. Can you sell your way out of it the back way and keep the land at least? Do you have equipment and cows you could sell? Yeah. My total assets is like 2.3 million with everything. Okay. What happens if you would go that route and you at least get to keep the land and keep your home? Turn your land into a grazing property or get with these guys who I just love,

the carbon cowboys, and just run cattle for a while. It's better than losing 500 acres of generational property. Yeah, it'd be better than losing it i mean that's my biggest fear i've toured old dairy farms man it's it's staggering but it's here's what i know i've toured old dairy farms i've got one in my family and it's it's so hard to part with it so that's why i'm so i'm just heartbroken for you but you're about to lose all of it and if you've got enough equipment and cows and tractors

to walk it out the back door and keep a small amount of cows and get with the carbon guys cowboy guys and learn how to farm without all the fertilizer and slowly rebuild this thing from scratch you at least are hanging on to 500 acres of generational property. And they quit making that dirt a long time ago. That's what's most important in this whole equation. Otherwise, your pride's going to end up losing all of it, and you and your wife are going to be in a two-bedroom apartment here this time next year.

Yeah. I just, I don't, I don't know how to deal with the shame. I know. I got't, I don't know how to deal with the shame. I know. I gotcha. I gotcha. Hey, we're coming up on a commercial brother. I'm going to hold you over cause I want to keep talking to you for a minute. Okay. So hang on. Um, we're going to run to commercial and we'll be right back in your, uh,

your bravery and vulnerabilities is, is a gift. And, um, I'm grateful for you. Stay on the line. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets, our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself, we all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when

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We are talking to our friend Adam in Green Bay, Wisconsin. And Adam is a fourth generation dairy farmer who, like countless other farmers across this country, is, to quote Adam, burned up several pencils trying to make the math work on keeping this farm alive. And as in many businesses, there's always another opportunity if we can just get to this next level and get to this next level. And Adam has found himself over a million dollars in the hole. staring at a foreclosure at the end of this year that would take over 500 acres of generational property away and hand it to an investment crew out of New York City. And right there at the end of the calls, we're navigating what do we do next. And Adam, you're here. Does that sound about right? Yep.

Yeah. At the end of the call, you asked a really powerful question that i think every single one of us wrestles with and we as a culture do a terrible job of talking about out loud which is how do i deal with the shame i don't deal with the shame of being the bottom of the fourth generation saying i'm the guy that had to call it tell me about the shame you're feeling right now, man. It's terrifying. It's all-encompassing. It's all I think about. You can't wash that off. It's not like I'm an electrician and I can go pick up another job. This isn't what I do. It's who I am. I don't know how else to explain it. Are you a husband? Yeah, father to two little girls.

You're a father, yeah. So I know this is a little bit countercultural to a fourth-generation farmer, but I'd like to challenge you that you're a husband and you're a dad. And then down the road, and if you're a person of faith you're a child of God and then down the road is what you do and I think what you do now creates what happens for the next four generations and those little girls get to see dad faced with a reality, not by his hand, but in his lap. And they get to see dad choose his heart, right? Is he going to choose the path of we lost it all?

And I'm saying this because I love you because I had some ego. I didn't want to sell all my equipment and net out of this thing. Or they get to see dad weep as people come by the tractor and they buy the pumping equipment and they buy the tanks and they buy all the stuff but they got to see dad go for a walk with the few cows that he had left through the field that will still be our family field and unless i'm i'm crazy i don't know another path in front of you and you decide okay i'm thinking about my the family i have that was on my wife's side that was dairy farmers and now they've got some kind of

grasses growing where it makes a i don't understand what were they pivoted to but they're still farmers they still got they still got fields out there um they're just not doing the thing they were doing for a long time and that seems like the choice ahead of you. And man, I just, I could start crying here thinking about some guys in suits showing up from New York to take your 500 plus acres from you and your little girls. That can choke me up way more

than get rid of a tractor. You know what I mean? Right. And I know I'm being dismissive, but I'm trying to say you don't have an easy path ahead of you. You got two hard paths. And if you've ever heard me talk about shame, guilt is I did something dumb when I took out that extra $600,000. I was dumb. I did that.

Shame is I am dumb. I i'm stupid i crashed this farm and i don't think you crashed the farm i think you're about and clean up on a lineup that kept handed you a tough situation to try to win that game and that we'll say both columns okay so fair enough so what's your next right move? The good news is you have an opportunity. You have an opportunity to do what John said. And although it's going to be painful for you, you have the opportunity to start something brand new and do it the right way. And I think that that's what your daughters are going to take away from this is plenty of us make mistakes. We do it the wrong way, but what, what differentiates it as a win is you get back up, you start again, and this time you learn from your mistakes and do

it the right way. Yeah. Adam, this is a big one and we're not gonna be able to solve this one here. Hang on the line. I'm going to hook you up with both of my books here for free. I want you to have something that you can read while you're sitting there on the back porch looking out over the field and distract yourself a little bit. So you're not just spinning out and spinning out. But you've done the math. You've sat with the bankers. You've sat with the debt repayment note right in front of you. You know that the math doesn't work.

And the next step is going to be pivotal to what comes next for, again, the next few generations. And given what you've told me in this short conversation, I'd tell you to sell the equipment and unload as many cows as you can and clear that 1.2 and get the banks paid off, and you're sitting on family property, and then when the dust settles, you figure out what you're going to do next. But, man, I would encourage you,

don't, because of ego and pride and shame, don't let them come take everything, because God knows they will. Thanks for the call, man, and thanks for your bravery. Thanks for being vulnerable in front of all these people. There's countless men and women sitting right where you are at their homes trying to figure out what to do next,

and it's pride and ego and fear getting in the way of choosing the next hard right move so i'm proud of you man call anytime and we'll be with you so that's a denver colorado and talk to andrew hey andrew what's up man how are you thanks for taking my call we're's up? Hey, a little backstory. About six months ago, I took a new job. Went from about $150,000, $160,000 a year down to $120,000. The job I took didn't quite work out, unfortunately. And so I've been looking for the next move. And my wife and I have explored moving to a state away and going to work for an old customer, my old employer. And I'm talking to them this morning, actually. And we talked a little about what it would take to move out there.

And then about an hour after I hung up the phone, I got a call from a competitor here locally for a pretty generous offer, about $200,000 a year to stay. And so my wife and I have kind of gotten jazzed about the idea of moving a year to stay. And so I made a, my wife and I have kind of gotten jazzed about the idea of moving to Steadoway, going on a little family adventure. And then I got a call saying, hey, we'll pay you a bunch of money to stay. So my question is, is it okay to go back to the company

I'm talking to to Steadoway and say, hey, I just got another offer to stay here. Can you match it? Or is this just a decision we've got to make as a family saying, hey, are we going or are we staying? I would definitely go back. I mean, you're seeing what your value is in the marketplace. And so I think that it's fair.

I mean, this happened and it's great that your current position offered you more. So yeah, go back to who you were talking to and say, listen, I just got this offer and I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to play you, but it's enough to make me stay. And I'd really want to come work for you if you can match it and just start talking. Because there might be other ways that he can match it in value, maybe not so much in salary, right? There might be creative ways you can make this work. That's a great point okay and just

frame it just like that call him right back and say hey you know i know it sounds uncanny but i just got a call 10 minutes after we hung up i would honestly i'd call him laughing like you're not going to believe this man i just got one dropped out of the moon and they're often bananas money and so me and my wife have to work through it. Tell me where your final final is. Okay. And listen, if he talks to you on the phone and says, how dare you? You're playing me, punk.

Then you just dodged a bullet like the Matrix. That's true. And if he laughs with you and goes, guy, business, let me go back and see what I can do, man, because we really want you here. That's a guy I might take less money for to go have a family adventure with. Rock on. I love it. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome.

And Andrew, I'll tell Andrew, Jade, what we tell everybody. If you're good at what you do, there's always going to be somebody calling. There's always going to be opportunities. And so at some point you have to settle into what kind of life do we and our family want to live? And the dollar amount is a part of it, but it can't be the end all be all. Yeah. It's a goalpost. The goalpost is always going to move and you have to make the decision at some point to go, I'm content and I'm good with this. Or what field do we want to put that goalpost on? But man, we got to make a life that we want to have. Yeah. And an extra 20, 30,000 bucks when you have enough, it's not worth it. This is The Ramsey Show.

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you must have paid it all off. How much did you pay off? Oh yeah, we paid off about $220,000. Whoa! How long did that take you? So a little bit over seven years. Good. I know about that. Gosh, y'all kept going and going, huh? It was a while. Alright, so what kind of debt was

this $220,000? It was our house and... Whoa. So what kind of debt was this $220,000? It was our house. Whoa! Touchdown! Dude, congratulations. And student loan. Student loans. And was the mortgage bigger than the student loans or the other way around?

The mortgage was bigger, yes. Okay. All right. Wow. Very, very cool. What's the house worth? So the house now is probably worth a little bit under $400,000. Let's go.

I love it. I love it i love it all right what in the world was going on in your life seven years ago that you said let's just suck it up and get this thing done yeah so we're recently married probably seven a little bit over seven years ago bought a house had some student loans um i'm an engineer a little bit of a numbers person, and just saw what we would pay in interest over time and really just wanted to attack the loan to give us a little bit of financial freedom eventually. That's a lot of financial freedom eventually. So when you said, I'm a little bit of a numbers person, your wife smiled a bit as though your bedroom is wallpapered in spreadsheets. Big Excel guy. You said that in a, it's not great.

Lots of Excel. Lots of Excel. All right. So you sat down and like a good engineering nerd, you said, honey, look how much interest we're gonna save and how did you receive that um not so well at first I agreed with everything he was saying but it was more difficult putting it into practice for me I think just not spending money and saving and putting it towards the house versus maybe going shopping sometimes. Sure, because that's not normal, right? Like it's not a normal practice. Most Americans aren't

saying, you know what, I'm going to actively pay off my mortgage today. So in that way, you're kind of going against culture. What were you earning when you were doing this? So we started out probably around $80,000, kind of first out of school and Meredith graduated graduated a couple years after I did and now we're around 230. 230 wow wow you guys kicked it into the highest gear oh yeah I mean just one thing with that during this period of time Meredith's had multiple jobs at one point I think she had three jobs. Currently, she has a full-time job and then also a side gig. So she's really just attacked this and, I mean, done a lot with two kids as well.

Yeah. I was going to say, there's also two little ones over there also. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. I was going to say, how did you guys play this? Because part of it, part of it was a student loan, which, by the way, how much was this student loan? I think it was around forty thousand total. So you guys went into high gear for the student loan and then usually people would kind of take their foot off the gas and kind of be like, OK, we've done this. We're going to save up our emergency fund and then we're going to kind of lay back a little bit and kind of be more intentional about paying off the mortgage.

Something tells me you guys were like, no, we're going, we're going even harder. Yes. We, I think we definitely took our foot off the gas a little bit. Yeah. When we had them, we, we kind of halted a little bit on the extra payments. So it took us maybe a little bit longer than it would have to save for them as well for college and things like that. We bought a minivan during that time. So Meredith now has a minivan and just lived a little bit, a lot of trips, a lot of things with the kids. So I've been very fortunate to do a lot of that. We live in a culture that wants everything right now you have this big motivational speech night where

you turn all the lights off and you light the candles and like the like the get the essential oil diffuser going and you show her these these spreadsheets and you'll have this big kumbaya moment and then our culture tells us then everything's be fixed for the next day what would you tell somebody we'll get to the keys to getting out of debt here in a minute but i'm more fascinated by y'all hammered away at this thing for seven years and we have a culture just doesn't do that anymore when it comes to weight loss when it comes to nutrition when it comes to any sort of any goals um we have people coming out of of school with their first year of their bachelor's degree wondering why they're not making six figures.

What would you tell somebody is the key to just simply sticking with something over time that long? I definitely had to learn that lesson right when I came out of college. I bought a truck with a loan and then eventually paid that off years before we started this. but delayed gratification is something that I've definitely learned over time. In the back of my mind, the main thing is how can we help our kids down the road? You have this why down the street that just keeps pulling you along. What about you? I'd say I still struggle with delayed gratification a little bit but um yeah i agree just knowing like the reasoning behind it and looking forward to what's to come um is the motivation so how'd you celebrate i don't know that we really have yet what

i need a cruise i need a i need you listen to live like no one else cruise is still available but anyway that's exactly right I need you guys to have a milestone so if you could do anything what would like

a big trip or a big celebratory moment look like so we're going to San Diego in October to kind of for a little getaway

so that's somewhat of a celebration well y'all make it a big getaway you make a quarter million dollars. You don't owe anybody anything. You need to go to Europe.

You need to go to Tahiti. You need to go somewhere. We want a lake house eventually, so that's where we're saving it. All right. Okay, okay. So there's a guy who just got married or a young bride who's still fit.

She's got two years left in school. She just got married, and they're both realizing how much they're going to owe, and they all get out. or a young bride who's still fit. She's got two years left in school. She just got married. And they're both realizing how much they're going to owe when they all get out. What do you tell them is the key to getting out of debt? I'd say being on the same page. Communication, working through the budget, looking at that constantly

and having a good discussion on where we're going to spend our money and both being in agreement there. Yeah, I think knowing it's going to be hard during the process, but that you'll be able to breathe on the other side of it is motivational too. So I want to hear that story. Paint us a picture of y'all hit send on that last payment. And there's like the, ah, it's kind of cool. But then there's been days and weeks since then. Paint me a picture of what your life has been

now that you don't owe anybody anything. No one can take your house. It's yours. No one can take your truck or your van. Paint the listener a picture of what that feels like. It's definitely freeing. You feel more lightweight, like nothing's weighing you down. Yeah, and I'm in the world of contracts and things like that.

So those come and go. And it's good to know that if something was to happen to my work, that I don't have to go find something right away oh gotcha you've you've bought yourself the luxury of time right and peace and that's amazing good for you guys all right so we ready to rip this thing off you're bringing the the girls up mm-hmm we have abigail and emma how old are they? Abigail is four today. And Emma is... She'll be two in September.

Happy birthday, Abigail. All right, all right. So we have Taylor and Meredith and Abigail and Emma from Huntsville, Alabama. Paid off $220,000, including your house because you're weirdos, in seven years. Count it down.

Let's let your debt-free scream rip. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! All right! So we're going to hook you guys up with two every dollar gift cards that you can give away. It's a year of every dollar subscription.

You can give it away to somebody in need or you can use it for yourself. And, Jade, this is how it's done. This is how it's done. Picture perfect. I love it. Picture perfect. Seven years slowly chipping away. Now forever no house payment.

And those little girls are never going to know money stress in that house. Changing the family tree. That's what it's all about. Amazing. If you're listening, yes, you can too. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Today's scripture of the day is 2 Corinthians 8, 11.

Now finish the work so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it according to your means. Justin Timberlake says if you put out 150% then you can always expect 100% back. That's what I was always told as a kid

and it worked for me so far. That's some different math, JT. Yeah. He definitely brought sexy back, but he did not bring math back. He did not bring math back. I brought mathematics back. Yeah.

That's a quote that Michael Scott would have on his office wall. I mean, I think I'm going to get this thing printed up and put in our suite back there. Oh, boy. I can just see Dave walking down the hall and pausing to read it and compute it, and his inner calculator just starts smoking.

Let's go out to New York City and talk to Daniel. Hey, brother. What's up, Daniel? How you doing, guys? Nice to talk to you guys. We're doing great, man. How can we help, man? So, I don't know, I sent in an email. So, basically, I'm 25. I have my own house, my second house. I'm

financially successful. I got everything going on. And within my financial success, I would say about 95% of all my friends dropped me, left me and i feel i just have a girlfriend now and i just you know just very alone like depressed like don't know what to do so what happened where'd your friends go i don't know i don't know they just i was just focusing on my business and doing my thing and then after a while they i guess maybe they just felt envious or whatnot but were they jealous or envious or whatnot. Were they jealous or did you? Or maybe you stopped calling them back? Yeah, like you didn't pour into the relationship?

No, not even. I mean, no, one of my friends I donated a car to, and then a year later stopped hearing from him. So, you know. So what's one of the businesses you run? You say you're a 25-year-old entrepreneur, you're very successful. What kind of business do you work in? Well, I own a power washing and a shrink wrapping business. Okay.

So let's say you were working on a power washing job and one of your nozzles broke. What would you do right in the middle of the job? Fix it. How? Replace it. How? Replace it. How? Well, if I had it in the truck, in the back of the truck, had some extras.

You don't have any in the truck. What are you going to go do? Go to the store and buy some. Okay. The store down the street's out. What are you going to do? You've got to finish this job. I'm going to have to replace it

or reschedule the job. Excuse me. So, here's what I'm saying. I can't get it right there and then. You're a very smart young man and you're very driven and you're successful.

And when it comes to your business, when it comes to honoring your word and your commitment to a customer, you will keep finding solutions and finding solutions. And so, my question for you is, commitment to a customer, you will keep finding solutions and finding solutions.

And so my question for you is, why don't you love Daniel at least as much as your customer? Maybe I'm just so focused on everybody else, helping everybody else around me that I'm not, you know? I think it's deeper than that, man. I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs across the country, and a lot of entrepreneurs become successful because they charge so hard, and they can charge so hard because they've been running from something their whole life. Either I'll prove it to you, I'll show you,

or this illusion, this false illusion that when I get this much money, or I get the next car, the next house, when I donate this thing, even giving can become that sometimes, then finally I'm going to have peace. And every time they get there, Jade said it earlier, the goalpost just moves. I'm going to buy another house. I'm going to get another car. I'm going to give this car to my bro.

I'll hook him up. He doesn't even talk to me anymore. Exactly. I'm telling you right now, in a weird way, you're lucky. You're finding this out at 25 most people finding out after make chasing this stuff for 25 or 30 years and they wake up at 50 and their kids don't like them and they're surrounded by nobody and you're right and so my question for you is how are you going to solve a friendship crisis you're going to go find some

friends you're going to put yourself in a position You might take one less job or two less jobs or hire somebody to get some of the work done now that you've got some financial margin, but you're going to make a commitment to having people in your life. And unfortunately for you, it's going to be different people than you ran with when you were younger, right?

100%. There's also part of this that I think is kind of normal. You know, you're 25 years old. The people that you're friends with at 25 won't necessarily be there at 30 and won't necessarily be there at 40. And so I wouldn't necessarily look at this as,

oh my gosh, I can't believe this is happening to me. It's also part of life. Like there's people that I invited to my wedding that I have never seen since. You know what I mean? There's people that I thought that were going to be my ride or dies for life. And we don't talk, we don't talk anymore. We never talk like it's over. And I don't necessarily know what happened. It just, you drift apart. And so there's people who are in your life. Some of them are there for a reason. Some of them are there for a season. Some of them are there long-term. Some of them are there to get you to the next spot. Some of them, you help them get to the next spot and you never see them again. But in many ways, there is a revolving door to this.

And I don't want you to think that it must be because of you or it's because they were jacked up or it's because I think there is part of this that you're 25 and life is changing very rapidly probably for everybody in your friend group I agree that makes sense and no men don't tell this to other men so here you go you have permission to be sad you have permission to miss your old buddies dude that's right it's it's good because those have been your friends since you were 12 right since you were 16 since you were 17 y'all did some stupid stuff together y'all got each other out of trouble y'all had each other's back you you're the kind of guy that will give you a car for sure 100 so it's all right to take a walk and to exhale and say, man, I miss those guys. And like Jade said, I got to go be about making new friends and new community.

I'm going to ride with people who are entrepreneurs, who are interested in doing the next right thing, who are good people, who have good character, who will hold me accountable to the man I want to become. Will you do me a favor? Yeah. Actually, it's not me a favor, dude. I'm just going to go about my day. It's doing you a favor. You get off this call sometime tonight, maybe this weekend.

I want you to get out a piece of paper and I don't want you to type, but I want you to use a pen. And if you're younger than 25, yeah, you're 25. So a pen is an ancient technological device that you can write with, right? I used pen in school. No, I'm playing.

So I want you to write a letter to 35-year-old Daniel. And I want you to write him about the time you had X number of dollars in the bank and you felt lonely. And the things you started doing when you were 25 so that in 10 years he could have the life that he's going to be having. And that's the way I'm living. There you go. Live like no one today so you can live like no one tomorrow, right? That's right.

But that 35-year-old life is not going to be about square footage. It's going to be about friends who love you. Exactly. Is that fair? That's fair. All right. I'm proud of you, good man.

All right. Thank you for having the courage to say, man, I'm lonely. I'm 25 and I've got it all and I don't got anything. Jay, we see this all the time, right? Absolutely. I mean, I think there's honor. We talk all the time about changing your family tree. And so there's this piece of honor in putting your head down and doing what you have to do to make things right financially for yourself and for your family and for your kids. But at the same time, the peace that you're looking for is not found in the money and the things and the stuff. Like Dave says all the time, there's only one way to true financial peace and it's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. So there's, and that's talking about relationship is what

that's talking about. And so even at, on this level, you know, talking about person to person relationship, you need that. You can have all the stuff. You can have the best paycheck. You can have your business is on point. But if you don't have relationships that matter, you can feel very empty very quickly. It's an old trope by this point. But I think it was Jim Carrey that said, I wish everyone could just get a million dollars just so you could know.

It doesn't do it. Yeah. It doesn't solve that question that we all ask. Do you see me? And do you know me? And do you still love me? Right. And I'm talking to you dudes out there in steel-toed boots and car hearts and you're surgeons just as much as I'm talking to anybody else. Everybody wants to know, do you see me? And now that you really know me, do you still love me? And so, man, you can have all the money in the world, but you got to have that gang. You got to have a group of people that you really know me, you still love me. And so, man, you can have all the money in the world, but you got to have that gang.

You got to have a group of people that you can call in the middle of the night and say, hey, I need some help. Come see me. So that's awesome. Thank you so much for your calls. Hey, America, thank you so much for joining us right here on The Ramsey Show.

We're here all the time, always putting shows in your feed to help you live a better, more peaceful life. We'll see you soon. This is The Ramsey Show. I'll see you next time.