The Ramsey Show - App - Am I Morally Responsible for Paying Back a Parent PLUS Loan? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

Home Selling, Debt, Education, Home Buying As heard on this episode: Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/3rZTUAx Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2Q64HME Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/3sXwUn5 Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/3utmVXi Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3fHhbVE

I'm Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I am Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz. On with me today, Ramsey personality. Rachel Cruz on with me today. Ramsey Personality, George Camel. Welcome, George. It's great to be here, Rachel. I know.

This is going to be a good show. We had a great time last time, so we'll see what shenanigans we get into. I may have rapped last time, so we'll see what happens on this day. We're going to be taking your calls again about your life and your money at 888-825-5225. So we'll start off with Lon in St. Louis. Hey, Lon, welcome to the show. Thank you. Glad to be here.

Well, thanks so much. How can we help? I had a question on whether to sell. I'm 71. I'm retired. And my wife and I own five rentals. And I'm just debating whether I'll... We're totally out of debt. Our main home is paid for.

All our rentals, everything. RV and everything. Just wanted to be wise to sell, liquidate the rental property, live off that, or keep it renting. I'm kind of confused about what to do. So all of the rentals are paid for? Yes. Way to go, Lon. I know, it's amazing. Have you even taken a moment to celebrate the fact that you guys have all these properties paid for in cash and no debt? Oh yeah, every day. That's awesome. So what's your retirement look like outside of the rental properties?

Okay, we have about $650,000 in investments. And then, like I say, everything is paid for, and I have that in annuities and other investments. But I guess our gross income per year is about $115,000. And you guys are still working? No, no, we're both retired. That's all from the investments. Does that include from the rental properties, the rental income as well as pulling from investing? Yes, and Social Security. Both of us have Social Security.

Okay, awesome. And pensions. We both have small pensions. So Lon, what's making you ask to sell? What has caused that? Because you guys, I mean, you're doing great. You guys are living on $115,000, which is awesome. Is it a headache keeping the tenants in and keeping up with everything and it's exhausting?

Or what would be the main motivation for you? Because it's not necessarily money. It's mainly about retiring totally because when you have rental property even though i have it with a property manager now i still the renters still call me because i've been with them for years yeah i don't know if i want to do it anymore i guess my rental property you're probably worth like 300 000 altogether or small rental units yep yep and that but But I'm just kind of confused. I've been renting for like 15 years, different units.

I just acquired these other properties about 10 years ago, and they're all in the same community, same neighborhood. Well, let's walk this out, Lon. Let's say you sold all of these rental properties, and you made $300,000. How would that affect your income? Well, it probably wouldn't affect that much, because I kind of figured just pulling out X amount of dollars per unit and until it liquidates totally, and that would be like,

I'm looking at 10 to 12 years. And being 71, you know, I just don't know if I want to keep renting. I just don't want to keep renting. Yeah, I get that a lot. I mean, I think the single-family home rental, it is a part-time job. I mean, like, you know, I come from a real estate family. My husband loves real estate. My dad obviously has a ton of it and Winston works with that.

So I just So I know the headache that it can bring, even though it's an awesome investment, it's fun. But when you're 71 and you want to retire, you don't want a part-time job. So I would be very comfortable considering where you guys are, the fact that they're paid off everything. It's a great market right now in general. Just to liquidate it and then reinvest some of that $300,000. I think that would give you some more security and less headache right now. And you can stair-step it. You don't have to sell all four or five at once. You could sell one and see where you guys are at and see at what point does the headache go away. And you may not miss the income and you go, oh, we're doing fine.

We can still live off $100,000 and we've got a great retirement and keep investing and you guys should be fine. That's right. I feel good about this either way, but thanks for the call. Awesome. I know. Thanks, Lon. And great job. Way to go. I just wanted to celebrate him. I know. It's incredible. You're like, do you know, Lon, what you've done? I thought he was going to say, well, I've got debt on all the rental properties. We're in all this debt and we're trying to retire. That's a different situation. A hundred percent. So congratulations. That's awesome. Awesome, Lon. All right. Up next is Donna from Charlotte. Hey, Donna, welcome to the show. Hey, how are y'all? Doing great. How can

we help? Question. A year ago, I lost both my parents, not because of COVID, within about a two-month period, but my mom was very savvy with her money, so they left me very well off. I have half a million dollars in classic cars, and I've got probably over a million or more in stocks and IRAs. And my house, everything I own is paid for. But my question is, my financial advisor told me just to go online and do like a mama bear will, or should I go to like a lawyer and do something um because it's it is to me it's a lot of money sure I mean I just don't want to do something

Mickey Mouse and then somebody doesn't follow it through because I've had it on just a piece of paper yeah absolutely well anytime there's somewhat of a complicated estate, I do think bringing in counsel is wise. I mean, you're going to pay for it, but almost, I mean, so even things like $500,000 in classic cars, I'm like, oh gosh, I wouldn't know exactly how to, like you may want someone to kind of speak into that, not just an online.

Now, Mama Bear Legal Forms is an amazing company. They do incredible things. And for anyone that just needs a good will in place, a state-specific will, this is something that they definitely can still use. But, Donna, yeah, I would say because of this money that's inherited and because of the uniqueness of a part of the inheritance, it wouldn't hurt just to get outside counsel. Like go to a lawyer, basically, because I mean, I don't have any siblings. It's just me. So, and your point for this is, yeah, to, for the will. Yeah.

I have nobody to leave it to. And I just don't, I'm just not one just to give it to whoever. Yeah. So, and I don't want my cousins. I know how that all works, too. No. So, I mean, I don't like nobody. I don't like anyone.

Donna's got her cards and her money, and she's good. But, I mean, my mom was a chiefie. I think she must have grew up with Dave because she used to save the money in the envelopes and stuff. I remember it like yesterday. That's awesome. She wouldn't spend her money, so I have. Yeah, well, it's great. And I think, too, I think there's a level of honoring who have killed it and done great and have some

money and assets to pass down, I think part of honoring that and stewarding that well is making sure that you're honoring them. Yeah. And I think your financial advisor's got a good head on their shoulders. So I'd lean on them to kind of assemble that team that can make sure that you protect what your mom left you and make sure that legacy is is well used way to go absolutely this is the ramsey show When we talk about giving like no one else, I'm always impressed with Zander Insurance and their commitment to helping others during the holidays. Zander has donated over $350,000 by pledging 25% of all sales of their ID theft protection plan to a worthy organization. Once again, this year, it's Team Rubicon, which is an amazing veteran-led disaster relief organization helping affected communities all across the country. Listen, ID theft is out of control, and the best way to protect yourself is with Zander's plan.

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and yeah, I'm doing this. It's great. We're dipping our toes in the water. We're just going down the road. I know. That's right. Just down the road. But you, Dave, and I, we're going to toes in the water. We're just going down the road. I know, that's right,

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I know. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash wealth to register, and we'll be live January 13th. All right. Up next, we have Kelly in Spokane. Hey, Kelly. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you guys so much for taking my call today.

I'm super excited to talk to you. I'll try not to talk too fast because I'm a little nervous. No, you're great. You're great. We're fast talkers. You're in good company. Thank you, guys. Oh, good. I've been a long-time listener, and this is the first time I've actually called, and I'm just excited I got through today. So I have a question about mortgage payoff and which direction you would advise I go. I'm on baby steps four through six, and I have two mortgages. The first mortgage is my former primary residence, and I have had a solid rental history in that house for about 10 years. And I'm towards the end of that 15 year mortgage and I owe about 72,000 on it.

The second mortgage is on my primary residence where I live and I owe about $168,000 on that mortgage. I know that, you know, you usually recommend that you pay off your primary residence first, but I just wasn't sure because it's not the larger mortgage as far as what I owe. And I've been tinkering around with your mortgage calculator and I was looking at the interest I save if I put more on, you know, the one that I owe more on, and I'd save more interest. And so I just thought I would call and clarify and talk to you guys today about that. So hoping to get your advice. Awesome. Well, it sounds like you're on the plan other than, you know, having the multiple mortgages. And, you know, we're not mad at you there, but you're right. I would pay off the

primary first, and it's for a simple reason. If the bank's going to come after someone, I'd rather it not be the place I live. And so worst case, if you had to sell that investment property, you'd get rid of the mortgage. You've got the equity. You'd be fine. I would focus on this primary mortgage. I don't treat it like a debt snowball when there's a multiple mortgage situation. You've got a primary and an investment property. It's not the kind of consumer debt, debt snowball, I want to feel the progress. Now, yeah, you would pay off the investment property first, but I'm still going to focus on the place I live first, and then focus on paying cash for any future investment properties. So I pay off the primary, then the investment property,

and then any future property I'm going to be paying cash for. That's my take. Rachel? Yeah, I absolutely agree. And then I would be curious, Kelly, like what if you sold it? What if you sold that rental house? I know that it brings in rental income and all of that, but is there any part of you that's like, oh, just get it out so that you free up $72,000 plus, you know, from what you owe on it and you can fully concentrate on your primary mortgage and then go back and invest in real estate down the road. Yeah, I, I thought about

that and it's, um, it's in a pretty darn good area of town and, um, it's, it's worth the one that I owe 72, it's worth about 550, maybe more. So, So, but I also, I don't know, I guess I'm just so close to the finish line there that I thought, gosh, if I had it paid for and I've had a solid rental history, I guess I was just thinking I'm older. I'm almost 44. Older? 44? I thought you were going to say like 70. I'm 44 with a four-year-old. So I guess I was just looking at like long-term investment. How much do you make a year, Kelly?

I make about $165 a year. Does that include the rental income? No. Okay. What does the rental bring in per year? Let's see. I'm just now bumping up the rent. I'll clear roughly about $800 a month. Okay.

So, I'm totally having a... Yeah, a little over $10. Yeah, yeah. I guess I'm just wondering, wondering, is it like massive money? Because it feels like to clear $800 on a property that's worth over half a million is not incredible. It's not changing your life to get the extra $10,000 a year. But to have, like Rachel said, if you sold this thing, you would have hundreds of thousands of dollars even after paying off your own mortgage. Right. And so I'm just wondering, like, how would that feel?

And so weigh those options. There's not a right or wrong here, but I think based on what your goals are, you're telling me you're getting older, even though you're not even halfway there. But you've got to think about your goals. And if you say, man, it would be awesome to be debt-free and to get to keep $165,000 a year, how fast could I save up and pay cash for a rental property down the road and do it a different way? So just think through those. Just a couple options

to think through. And again, that's why I like walking through people's scenarios in this, because there's not always this. We have a ton of formulas around Ramsey, and we have a lot of steps and progress that you can see step by step, which is great because that helps people walk the plan. But things like that with her, I'm like, you know what, is it going to, is she going to be tanked? But if she keeps it, no, Kelly's going to be fine. She makes great money. She's going to pay this off after her primary, like she, we'll talk to her in four years. She's going to be fine. But I don't know what's option B. There's always option A, B, C, D. And I think doing the math and figuring out,

especially something like with a rental property, if it's worth $500,000, she's out of Spokane. I'm like, what other places could you get $1,000 for rent? And would that even be cheaper? You know what I mean? Like, I think that puzzle of money is always interesting to me to kind of finagle the numbers and not just to stay in this kind of,

this one track mindset all the time when it comes to these other options that you could do with your money. Yeah. And when you have a paid for rental, you make more money off the rental because you don't have a mortgage payment. And so there's something to think about. A lot of people just go, well, I'm going to get into real estate investing and I'm going to get no down. But at the end of the day, I've got some friends who are losing money right now on the rental property because they're paying more than it's making them. But they still feel like, well, this is a good investment for us long term. And I'm just like, you're literally draining money.

Yes. And so you've got to really think about that piece. Obviously, that's not the situation with Kelly. She's doing great. But rental property is not always, you know, it looks sexy on the outside. And as you know, as Dave knows, it can be a nightmare, especially if you can't get a tenant or they're a bad tenant or they destroy something. There can be some serious repercussions, consequences, things you have to deal with down the road. Yes. And the money you're

putting back into it. I mean, yeah, it's a whole puzzle piece. It sounds fun. I'm like, oh, yeah, we have some rental properties. That sounds good. But when you're actually looking at the nuts and bolts of it, it's a lot of work. And you want to make sure financially that you're in a spot to do that and winston and i our very first one we got in a short sale um and kind of a sketchy part of nashville and it was a small condo but we put a few hundred bucks in it got new carpet new paint rented it i mean you can start small and build yes on it you guys so doing it with cash takes out the stress that's right absolutely this is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with very own George Camel.

George. Fun times. Good to be here with you. We don't get to host much together but when we do america goes wild they love it the feedback is pouring in actually you know the number one fan of this combo situation who sharon ramsey that is high praise mom if you're watching sharon if you're out there hello big fan of sh of Sharon Ramsey myself. She loves Rachel Cruz and George Campbell together. That's awesome.

Hosting the show. But we are taking your calls about life and money. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. And we're going to go to Anna in Virginia Beach. Hey, Anna, welcome to the show. Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely.

How can we help? I am in a situation with my father who took out a Parent PLUS loan for not only me, but both my other siblings as well. And there's a total of about $200,000 in debt. Yeah. And just his name. It doesn't seem to be a worry for him, but this has been something that is constantly on my mind since I worked hard to get myself out of my own debt and my name. And now with the government starting to start loan payments again at the end of January, it's really been a stressful factor for me. And what's making it stressful for you? The fact that he's going to be burdened with this? Well, I never knew that there was no discussion between me and him when I went to college

that he was going to do this Parent PLUS loan and that I would owe him this money. So after I graduated college, he was like, by the way, you owe me $65,000. Wow. Wow. Right. And so past couple of years, I've been sending him, you know, Venmo payments towards it. And, you know, ever since the shutdown and they stopped taking payments, we haven't tried to do anything with it. But I don't think it's right that I owe him that money when we never had that discussion. But I'm torn because thankfully I am able to actually pay that off tomorrow if I, you know, I prayed about it and that's what God tells me to do, but I'm not having that mindset. I feel like this is like I was taken advantage of, you know,

I was only 17 or 18 years old and, you know, my father put me in this very difficult position. Very much so. And sadly, Anna, you know, your story is, is common. I hear this a lot. Even, I even had a friend and they went to go apply for a mortgage and she had no clue and it came up and she was like, wait, what? So it is sadly something that, that does happen. Have you talked to him about this? What's y'all's relationship like? It's, it's strained.

He, he left my family when I was 12 years old but you know we tried to we tried to mend that relationship but there's definitely some um you know anger still and resentment toward like with us mostly on my end but even more so because I have this financial uh burden with him even though it's not legally tied to me. I feel, you know, morally like I need to help him out with this since he's in, you know, with my siblings, $200,000 debt. I, he, he can't pay that off and I don't want my father to go bankrupt. So the conversation really always ends up in a screaming match because I care more about it than he does. He's on the public loan forgiveness program.

So in his mind, after, you know, the 120 payments, the rest will be forgiven, even if the interest is capitalized. But that means seven more years of me being financially tied to my father. And I don't know if I can do that or not. Yeah, this sounds like an emotional and relational decision more than a financial one for you. You have the money to pay it off? I do, but it would be all of me and my husband's savings. Including your emergency fund, or is this outside of that?

Outside of that. Okay. To me, I know you can put a price on it and say, yeah, that's $65,000 in savings. But to have that weight off of your shoulders, out of your life, and to at least resolve your end of this relationship and to be able to let go of that, I'm weighing those options going. I may just pay this and be done with it. Because right now it feels like it's weighing on you maybe even more than him. Well, the thing is, Tuyana, you're not going to be able to control him, right?

So he could sit on this, like you're saying, for seven more years or even if something happens with the loan forgiveness and it's not forgiven. And so there is a level of accountability he has to have that you can't have for him, that he was an adult when he signed this up. And as harsh as that sounds, it's true. He signed this, so he knew what he was getting himself into, whether he truly could, like, you know, pace out the entire future of his life, no, but he's the one that signed it,

so that responsibility is not on you, but your name and education, not name, but your education and your experience is still tied in a relational aspect back to this alone so i and i hate it because i'm like man i know you worked hard you're you have savings in the bank and all of it but but there is this level of just as john zelany would say just mental health of just not having the stress not having the relational strain and the fact that it was your education even though i know you were 17 and there was a lot of manipulation in it

and you didn't know about it, all of that. But there is something that you could say, okay, I am going to pay this because it's worth me having peace at night. It's worth me not stressing about my dad. It's worth cutting the ties is basically what it feels like. And this, you're still tied to him, is the feeling I'm getting from you on this call. Is that correct? Yeah, it's correct.

And I guess my other concern is, how do I actually give my father that amount and trust that he's actually going to use that large sum of money and pay off my portion of the loan since they're all consolidated? So I don't really know how that works. Well, it would be, yeah, obviously in good faith that he would, but you're not legally tied to this loan.

And so for you, this is a moral type decision. It's not a legal financial decision. It is, hey, I'm giving you this money to pay off my loan and I'm done. You can't come back to me anymore for anything. I've paid my end of the deal, which sucks because I didn't even know I had the end of the deal until after college. But I'm going to do this so that I can have breathing room and the stress be off me. And then at that point, it is his responsibility and up to him. But I think from your end of the deal of you making this decision, again, it's not from a legal standpoint.

It really is from an emotional standpoint. Do you think if you had the conversation with him and you sat down with him and said, hey, I want to pay this off, would he be open to that? What would that turn into? I think he would be – he's totally fine with living in this debt. And I believe based off his expenses that I see that he's totally fine with living in this debt. And I believe based off his, you know, expenses that I see that he's okay with putting himself more in debt. And I,

you know, that's basically more than half of America being okay with that kind of mindset. But, um, I think he'd be okay with it. I think he wouldn't understand it. And he would try to convince me just to do the payments,

to do the public loan forgiveness thing. Um, but like you guys said, I mean, we have no idea what would happen in seven years. You know, he tries to also convince me that maybe the Biden administration will fall through and they will give money towards, you know, student debt and stuff like that. But I don't plan on holding my breath for that to happen. Well, and I and as we're talking about this, Anna, there is a part of me that would be a little bit like, gosh,

I don't want 65, I don't want to enable him with $65,000 through like a Venmo, right? Like, there would have to be, I would want to see

on a computer transferring the money, you know what I mean? Because I'm like, I don't want to hand him $65,000 of cash because. I think if you can get

on the same page and he's willing to allow this $65,000 to be paid, you sit with him and you guys do this thing together. And that way you can see it happen. You're on the same page and there's this nice clean break in a sense if this relationship isn't going to be sorted out. But who knows?

There could be redemption at the end of this story. Absolutely. So it's your job to just do what you can and control what you can control. But you need to let go of this. Thank you, Anna. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Blinds.com 100% satisfaction guaranteed means that even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promo codes they run every month,

you'll save even more. Use promo code Ramsey to get the best deal. Today's question comes from Justin in Michigan. I was able to graduate from college debt-free because my wife and I worked our butts off and lived on a delicious diet of ramen, rice, and beans. I have a new job that I love, and we just discovered we're expecting our first baby. I want to sell my current car for $9,000 and buy a Mustang convertible for $9,000. I would drive my wife's car during the winter and keep the Mustang under a tarp. We have $42,000 in the

bank, so I could pay cash and have a super fun car, but we are looking to get a house in the next year. Can we afford this car? What an interesting question from Justin, Michigan. A lot going on in their life. The old Stang. Expecting our first baby. Okay. And wanting a Mustang. Take me back, Rachel, to when you guys had your first baby.

Yes. Let's say you had $42,000 in the bank and Winston said, hey, I really want this Mustang convertible. What's the conversation like at the Cruz household? Well, I don't know. I don't know how that conversation would go george i think i mean especially if you have a goal of wanting a new house i mean it's nine thousand dollars and it's even selling the current one for nine buying one for nine that's what i'm confused

about isn't it just a switch then it is but they're kind of down to one car he's saying i would drive my wife's car during the winter and keep the Mustang under a tarp. Oh, so the wife would have to get in a car. That's where I get a little hairy there because the new baby. Are the numbers right, James? Yeah, this is an interesting situation. If the numbers are right and it's an even trade, I'm just saying I wouldn't do it right now. I would wait until the baby's here and everything's good.

Yeah. Take a beat. Figure out if you can handle a one-car situation. You know, if the wife's at home. We just, there's a lot of unknowns here. Yeah. Down to the one-car thing. I mean, no.

I mean, Justin, I would just, I'd pump the brakes, literally, and not. Can you afford the car? Yes. It's not a question of can we afford the car. No. The question is, is it a wise financial decision for your stage of life? And to me, this thing's under a tarp. It's just going to be sitting there for most of the winter in Michigan.

You're not going to be driving it as much as you think you are. Yeah. So I'm waiting. I'm going to give it a... A Mustang will be there. There's a lot of Mustangs to go around. Keep the two cars. Figure out what life is like with the new baby and go

from there. What's the car you want? What would be the car you would buy under a tarp? Literally, I would never buy a car that I would have to keep under a tarp. Can I ask such a whatever question about cars? Sure. You're asking the wrong guy, first of all. This is going to be dangerous. Don't convertibles have...

You can get a hard top. you can get a soft top. Why does it have to be under a tarp? Is it because the snow in Michigan is just so much that it could damage it? That could be part of it. I'm looking at the manly men in the booth. There's a lot of manly men in the booth. So many. They just give us anything.

They're giving us nothing. They don't even know. I got my. That's just, I don't know. Anyways, Justin. I'm not doing it. I'm not saying it's a not. It's just a not now.

It's not, hey, this is a dumb idea. I'm just just saying just wait till the baby's here see what life is like and then six months after that if you still want the mustang get yourself the mustang get yourself the stang hope that helps justin baby life can just be unpredictable and you don't know what it's going to be like in the pregnancy and money and definitely not in a convertible. In Michigan. In Michigan. But hey, you do you. Thanks for the question. Thanks for the question, Justin. All right, up next we have Heidi in Boston. Hey, Heidi, welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel and George. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So listen, my husband and I, we want the American dream to buy a house, but we don't want to be upside down on the house years from now. My husband and I have saved 28% of a down payment on the house and we have no debt. However, we're very frustrated with the way the market is, the bidding wars, the rat race of it all, having to bid like $120,000 for a house that has issues. And we're just not willing to do that.

We're not willing to do this huge investment, the biggest investment of our lives, and come out potentially upside down later down the road. I think that we really need help and advice on what to do. Should we settle? I mean, a lot of people have been telling us, oh, why are you having all that money for your down payment? Nobody cares about that. The PMI isn't that much. And we're holding to our guns here, but... They have those in Boston?

We're very frustrated. I'm from the Boston area. So I feel you on that the real estate debacle there, and it's happening all over the country, but especially in a big city like Boston, East Coast, West Coast. And so what kind of house are you looking at? What's the price point? My husband and I, we bring in, we'll bring in $369,000 this year before taxes. We're looking, we were pre-approved for about $850,000, but we're looking for more of a $650,000 area. We don't want to be on the very top of our budget. We want to be comfortable. I think that we have the right idea.

It's just we kind of feel like we're forced into a really bad situation. And I don't want to use the term unfair because I know life isn't there, but my husband and I work hard and we don't, we want to be able to not be stuck in our lives. We want to have kids someday. We just don't know what to do, frankly. Yes. And I would say, Heidi, anytime you feel forced in a financial situation, you could make a really bad decision. So anytime there's options, that would be my thing. Options, options, options. Now, are you going to pay more than you did 24 months ago? Yeah, you are because of the housing market. We all know it's just, it's insane right now.

But could you guys get to a number that you feel comfortable with and to say, you know, regardless of market, this is the amount of money we want to spend. And because of that in this market, this is the house we're going to get do we feel good about that and if the answer is no to any of those then just you can pause Heidi you got there's no one forcing you guys to buy a home right now you really I know you're frustrated and you want a home and all that I get that but even if you just have the breaks for just say I mean another nine months like I wonder what fall of 2022 is going to be like you guys will have more money saved up you can see if the market at all corrects itself. But give yourself some time and do not feel forced into a situation. Because what is the urgency for you guys of buying a home? Is

it just that you're just, you don't want to rent anymore? And you're like, oh, we just want a home? Well, we've been married three years and we live in an apartment right now in Malden and the rent, it keeps on increasing every year. We've been in the same apartment for six years now and the rent's going to increase again. The amount that we're paying now would be is higher than what our expected mortgage per month, including like property taxes and stuff like that would be. And plus, we want to start a family and the area that we live in right now isn't really ideal for that. Well, Heidi, here's what I would do. Like Rachel's saying, I'm going to use this time to buy me some patients and save up even more. And that's what we did when we were building our home. And every time there was a delay, I just went, sweet, one more month to save up for that down payment. And we got a huge down

payment on that house because of that. And so that may also help you upgrade in-house. And over time, if you're working with a great real estate agent, and let me tell you, if you don't have one, you can jump onto ramseysolutions.com and find a Ramsey-trusted ELP, Doris Local Provider, in the Boston area who's rockstar and they can help you navigate this weird time so that you don't get screwed, so that you're not paying a hundred thousand over asking to get into a house. So I'm going to do it when the time is right, but that doesn't mean you can't be searching and trying. And I know it's frustrating and it can be disheartening, but this is just the market we're in. And if you want a house right now,

you got to play the game, but use this time to keep saving up. Maybe you guys could put 40, 50% down on this house. That could be incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's what's hard is when you feel forced again in a situation, that can be dangerous. And people do that. I know this isn't your case specifically, but even people, they find the perfect house. This is the only house. This is the only house where they find the car. This is the only car. This is the only house. They find the car. This is the only car. This is the only car. I'm going to overpay. You make bad decisions when it's this

very, very tunnel vision. And so to be able to say that, yes, we want a house. We want a house here in the next 18 months. So now in 18 months, we're going to be saving and we're going to be looking for a home and give yourself that patient's hide. But you guys are doing awesome. You make great money. You got a great down payment. You're going to be great money. You got a great down payment.

You're going to be great. And you have a great Boston accent. I love that. She does. Living in an apartment. My apartment. George, thanks for co-hosting with me today. I want to thank our producer, James Childs, and phone screener, Jenna Sears. This is The Ramsey Show. show hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsey show did you know over 18 million

people listen to the ramsey show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 across the country. To find a station near you, head to theramzshow.com.