The Ramsey Show - App - Annuities Explained (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 6, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Ann starts us off this hour in New Hampshire. Hi, Ann. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. I have a question. My husband and I, we were thinking of giving money to a charity, about $10,000. So we decided to go with a smaller charity that $10,000 would make more of a difference to. And I was just wondering, we have a couple in mind, what would you look at to make sure they would make good use of your money? Well, we formed a few years ago the Ramsey Family Foundation that my oldest daughter Denise is the director of.

And she vets the ministries that we're going to give to each year, and then the board, which is our family, sits down and decides who we want to give to. And some of the things that we look for when we're vetting that is, number one, we look at what they do and the actual thing that they do there's a lot of really good things that charities and ministries do but that are not things that uh any of us in our particular family have an interest in so vetting number one is it's something that we're interested in and it's it's something we are concerned about we have a burden, one of us or some of us in the family on that board. And obviously, is this something you care about helping with?

That's number one. Then number two, we look at it through a business lens because as Christians, we feel like we're investing God's money when we give it. And so just like I would analyze a business I would invest in, we're going to analyze that charity. So if they're doing good work, then we want to look at their books. And their books need to be public. If they're not public, I have no interest in putting money in them. And so if they're public and they don't mind sharing with us, you know,

what their expenses are and so forth, and we're looking for what percentage of the dollars actually goes to the need and how much is eaten up in administration and other costs, right? And so there are charities that only 10% of every dollar goes through to actually feed the orphan or whatever it is, right? Okay. And so I'm looking at that ratio, and I really want it to be way north of 50% that is actually going to the need, that they're not burning over 50 cents of every dollar on, you know, office space and secretaries and computers and whatever else, because they've gotten admin heavy then.

And that's the efficiency of the charity does that make sense yeah yeah so i'm looking at that the third thing we look at is do they operate internally and the business practices that they use uh consistent with what we believe now in your case you might believe differently but you would in our case we're you know this is ramsey and so do they borrow money well we don't borrow money and we don't give money to banks in interest at home or at work so why would we do that through a charity so we don't we don't give money to charities that are in debt or that use debt regularly or ministries and so it'd be pretty inconsistent for a ramsey to do that you know what i'm saying it's almost laughable now you might not be as concerned about that as i

am or we are in our family but that and you know the other thing we're thinking about is do they have a a reputation of the team being treated well the the ministry team. In other words, is it an abusive work environment? I don't want to support that. I wouldn't invest in that company, and I wouldn't invest in that ministry either. So we're looking at stuff like that. In other words, are they following kind of our financial principles and the leadership principles that we believe made our company great? Are they doing somewhat of that? Now, the smaller the ministry, the less tough we're going to be on them, right?

But because they're probably not large enough to have gotten some sophistication yet. So I'm not going to expect huge levels of sophistication from a $200,000 a year operation, right? Which is what you might be looking at with a $200,000 a year operation, right? Which is what you might be looking at with a $10,000 donation that you would give. I guess, and the last thing I do is we don't, the amount of money we, or the amount of time we spend vetting them or doing our due diligence is in relation to the size of the gift. So if you're giving $10,000, you're giving $100,000. Where I come from, that's a lot of money. And so I'm going to spend a lot more time digging into that.

If I'm giving somebody $500, I'm not even hardly looking at it. Right, right. I'm not going to spend $2,000 worth of time analyzing a $500 gift. Right. But we just make it commensurate to that. But we still try to stay true to those principles. Is it something we care about? Is it operated efficiently, consistent with the values that our family and the giver believes?

And then I spend time commensurate with the size. That's kind of the principles we operate from in general. And based on that, we have a budget that we operate from each year um and and you know almost no outside charities or ministries that apply do we give money to almost all of them are something one of us has contact with already because it's not it's not millions and millions of dollars given a year through that uh there's quite a bit of money given but not not it's not millions and millions of dollars given a year through that. There's quite a bit of money given, but it's not tens of millions of dollars. We're not at that level. But that's, I don't know if that makes sense.

Is that helpful to you? Yeah, yeah. No, that was very helpful. Thank you very much. Thank you for the call. We appreciate you joining us. All right. Teresa is with us in Ohio.

Hi, Teresa. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Nice to speak to you. You too. What's up? So I'm calling about a question for college savings for my kids. I'm 34 years old. I have four gorgeous daughters. I was divorced about two years ago from their dad. We had a 15-year marriage, and I remarried in

June of this past year, and our joint income is $86,400 a year. I'm currently a full-time student, and all of the income that I'm currently bringing in is from my divorce settlement. So I'm striving to get my undergrad degree during this rare opportunity that I can so that once that money dries up, I have a good job that can financially sustain us. I don't have any retirement savings. I am on baby step number two right now. We have about $5,000 in debt. We paid off about 15. And I'm just trying to figure out how to approach college for my four kids. How old are they? My oldest is 14.

Oh, 14. Okay. When will you be finishing your bachelor's? Well, I'm accelerating now, and so I'm hoping to be finishing toward the end of 2021. Okay. What are you studying? Business. Okay, good.

All right. Well, I would work the baby steps straight up. I'm not worried about your retirement today. I want you out of debt. Get your emergency fund in place. I want you to cash flow this school. And then once you've got your emergency fund in place, you start putting 15% away for income or for your retirement.

And above that, we start working on these kids' college. I don't think you are personally going to fund these kids' college by yourself 100%. So they're going to be working on scholarships. They're going to be working when they're in school. And they're going to choose an in-state school. And let's start talking to them about that now. Hold on. I'll send you Anthony's book debt-free degree. Are high healthcare costs getting you down?

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supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. The question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds for free.

You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. The promo code is RAMSEY. Be sure and use it. Shana's in Minnesota. My son is college senior, will spend his last semester studying abroad. My question pertains to using a debit card in another country. His professor recently told the class maybe a good idea to apply for a credit card before the trip. He suggested that sometimes places do not accept a U.S. debit card but would

accept a credit card. This is true. My son does not want to debit card but would accept a credit card. Is this true? My son does not want to take on the burden of a credit card but worry his professor's advice may be true. What do you recommend? I recommend you don't listen to college professors' advice on personal finance ever for anything. I don't know. I've traveled all over Europe, all over Africa, all over, all over,

and I have never had any trouble with a debit card that was substantial. Now, I always carry some currency for the country that I'm in. I like to have cash. I'm a redneck. I want to have a couple thousand dollars, a couple hundred dollars cash, whatever it is in my pocket at all times, whatever, wherever I am. And so if I do run into something, I can do that. But I would say that 99% of his transactions will be just fine with a debit card anywhere they take a credit card.

I've never had a problem. And I've stayed in some of the finest uh places and wherever paris and london and scotland and yeah russia wherever we've been all over the dadgum place um israel wherever and i just have not had any trouble with my debit card so um that's a personal experience so i don't know where this professor gets his insights but um you know know, it's just like the U.S. There's a few places you run into things. You know, a lot of the rent-a-car companies in the U.S. don't take a debit card, right? So why?

So what do you do? You work with Dollar Rent-A-Car because they love Dave Ramsey listeners, and they've redesigned their whole system to make sure that they love Dave Ramsey listeners, and they take a debit card. And consequently, they're getting a bunch of business, too, by the way, a ton of business. And you can go to dollarrentacarrental.com and sign up for their express and just walk straight out to the curb. And you can do all that with a debit card with them.

So you just have to kind of use your noodle, kind of like you do in the U.S. You're going to run into places that aren't as debit card friendly, but I'm just not credit card friendly, so I can't do it. We were eating, Sharon and I were eating this wonderful, oh, so nice. Oh, we had breakfast in this tiny little town just outside of Aspen, and I got ready to pay, and the lady just smiled and she said, you know, we don't take plastic. And I thought, oh, that's so awesome. That is amazing.

Thank God I got a little cash in the pocket because we just had this wonderful breakfast at this place. And it was just so refreshing. So refreshing. Cash-only place. Won't take your check. won't take a debit card won't take american distress but they will take green president's faces i just love those people i just i'll go back to eat there can you tell the food was great but that just made me grin that just made me happy so you're going to find that's true when he's traveling abroad as well so unbelievable tanya's in illinois hey tanya how are you

hi thanks for taking my call dave i'm so pleased to speak with you you too what's up well um i'm hoping you can guide me. I think I've made a big mistake. My husband and I just started doing your plan in August, and it's been amazing. But we're on baby step two. But this has to do with an old 403B that I've had. Nothing's being contributed to it. But earlier in the year, back in April, we went to the financial planning services that my company sponsors and pays for. And they did a full workup and I had been kind of having sleepless

nights because my value would go from, I'd lose like $20,000, you know, and then I'd get, anyway, there was a lot of risk. So they suggested that I move some money, $166,000, into a traditional annuity within my 403B retirement account, guaranteed. So right now, 30% of my $577,000 that's in there is now in this annuity. And now that I've started listening to you, we're following your steps, I'm starting to realize that probably was a huge mistake yeah um and i don't know what to do um i'll contact them and see if they can reverse that and put it back into mutual funds okay because um they said it would be like a 10-year process of taking you know a tenth out each year and so then that also they put you in something inside of a retirement account with a surrender charge oh i don't know oh these guys are absolute

screwballs so i need to if yeah it's in my my 403b and it's some kind of retirement so i mean find out what your penalties are what your surrender charges are and and you may be stuck there but the other thing you got to weigh it against is you're probably making two percent on this thing instead of 10 or 12 exactly and so if you're if you're if your surrender charge is 10 take it and move it really put it in something that makes 10 more the first year you recoup okay gotcha that makes sense you know the first year, you recoup. Okay, gotcha. That makes sense. You know, I don't know what your surrender charge is, though. The stupid thing might be 40%. I don't know.

So call them and ask them about surrender charge. No, tell them that you are really upset now that you learned what it is they actually sold you, that they put you in a surrender charge product inside of a retirement account, which is absolutely screwed up. That's ridiculous i mean you got two sets of penalties on this money now if you get if you need to get to it right the government and these idiots yeah so now i don't know i don't know what they're going to do but see what they can do to get you out of tell them you're not happy with them and we want to get you moved and see if you can lean on them a out of it. Tell them you're not happy with them, and we want to get you moved,

and see if you can lean on them a little bit and get it moved, and then get some advice from somebody else before you make any more moves. And like a smart investor pro that has a clue what they're doing. So, wow. All right, let's stop a second. What is an annuity? An annuity is a life insurance company product. It's a savings account with a life insurance company.

There are two types of savings accounts with life insurance companies, fixed and variable. Fixed pays you basically a CD rate, 1% or 2% right now, which is what she's in. And it grows inside of an annuity tax deferred like a 401k or an IRA does. And you pay extra fees for the annuity. So here's what's happened. You have a tax-deferred 403b, and they moved her into a substandard horrible rate of return that she's paying extra fees for and is also tax-deferred. That's redundant.

There's tax deferral on the tax deferral you can't double dip on this you get one shot at this and she already had all that for free because it's inside the 403b it didn't need to be in an annuity but she got scared with her risk tolerance with the stuff moving back and forth and so these goobs dropped her into this thing. Why is that bad? Because then they put you on a surrender charge, and then it takes seven years to be able to get your money moved out of there without getting hit with some kind of a charge and gut punched. And so there is zero times, never, not a case anywhere that a fixed annuity is the answer.

Never. There's always something better. Because a fruit jar at least doesn't penalize you when you take the money out early. And you're not making much more money on it than a fruit jar anyway you can also do a variable annuity which is a fine product but not inside of a retirement account the variable annuities are mutual funds inside of an annuity and they have some actual benefits after you've maxed out all of your retirement accounts not against variable annuities once you've maxed out everything and you've paid off your house.

But you don't need to use a variable annuity inside of there because you're paying extra fees for the tax deferral and the benefits of the annuity. And you don't need to pay for that because it's already inside of a retirement account. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Leo and Paige are with us. Hey,

guys, how are you? Hi, Dave. Leo and Paige are with us. Hey, guys. How are you? Hi, Dave. Great. How are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you guys live? Cincinnati, Ohio.

Fun. And how much have you paid off? $62,000. Awesomeness. How long did this take you? Three years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Well, we started when I was single.

I wanted to get out of debt before I got married. So I started at $45,000 and now married we're over $100,000. Okay, very cool. How long have you been married? Six months. All right. So you did most of this before marriage? Yes. On your own? Correct. And Paige, were you working on any debt during that time? I was not. I got a full tuition scholarship for university, so it was great. Nice. How did you do that? Great ACT score. Ah, you're one of those people. I love you. That's awesome. Good for you. What's your degree in? Data science. Cool. And so, Leo, what was your debt from? University student loan debt.

Oh, okay. Yes. Same thing then. Correct. What were you studying? Accounting. Oh, good. Yes. So we got a computer science degree, accounting degree. Yes.

Life is good. Yes. Well done, you guys. Congratulations. So how long have you guys been dating? Yeah, we were dating for about three years. Okay. So about the time you started this, you started dating.

Yes. When I met her in college, I met her when I was in grad school, and I was like, you know, this girl's pretty cool. So I got to know her a little bit more, and I found out. We started talking money, and I realized, ooh, she didn't have any debt. And I'm thinking, ooh, goodness gracious. So I better clean my act up before I get married, because this girl might turn into something great.

I love it. Yes. Very cool. And it turned out that I wanted to get out right before marriage and knocked out the debt the day before we got married. Oh, you did? Yes. Exactly right before.

Oh, my gosh. Good. Okay. Good for you. Yes. That's quite a goal. So you did all this on your own and she's just your cheerleader? That's right.

Yep. Okay. All right. Very cool. So what got you started on doing our stuff? Yeah. I actually grew up on a farm in Williamstown, Kentucky. And I used to watch, or I used to listen to

Dave Ramsey with my dad over at Campfire. So, we would pull up in his pickup truck and we'd have a good listen of Dave Ramsey at night. So, it was pretty cool. Went to college and met Paige and I got her hooked on Dave Ramsey. So we've had a few Dave Ramsey dates.

Love it. To keep things simple. So, Paige, you're watching him do all this stuff through dating and then through engagement and right up to marriage. Yeah. What were you thinking of this crazy man? I mean, all great things, of course. He had a great clunker at that time, of course, and just thinking about the long term and thinking about what we can have in the future with what he's doing right now. Love it.

Paying a price to win makes him worthy, huh? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. All right. So, Leo, what's the secret to paying off $62,000 worth of debt as a single guy headed towards the altar. Absolutely.

Yeah, I would say digging deep within yourself and coming to terms with the fact that you can't win something without knowing there's a price to be paid. And on top of that, that's if you're single. But if you're married, it's nice to have somebody who's a good cheerleader. So having someone who has the same uh same values in terms of uh responsibility yeah outside the two of you who was your biggest cheerleader yeah i would say my dad he's actually here with us today all right well you know dad yeah so brought him along for

the ride very cool so he sees how this campfire thing turns out now oh yeah pays dividends worked out good good dad yes well done i'm sure he's very proud of you. We're very proud of you. Very cool. Congratulations. Good stuff, guys. Yes. So now you're set.

How old are you two? 28. 24. 28 and 24 years old. 100% debt free. And just been married a few months. Yes. And knocked the debt out in advance of that.

Wow. That's a great story, man. Absolutely. Well done. Congratulations. Yes. And knocked the debt out in advance of that. Wow. That's a great story, man. Absolutely. Well done. Congratulations. Yes. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. You're going to be one because you're rock star millennials.

Thank you. You know, I get to meet rock star millennials all the time on this stage right here. They come in here and they're 20-something and they've done amazing things and knocked out their debt. Very focused and absolutely incredible. Very, very proud of you guys. And I know your families are, too. So Hogan's book, Everyday Millionaires, is the next chapter in your story. We got one for you, as I said.

And that's very fun. All right, Leo and Paige, Cincinnati, Ohio, $62,000 paid off in three years, making $45,000, now making $100,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! This is how it's done. Boom!

I love it. I love it. Now, I've got to tell you, i don't know where her dad is but if that young type of young man comes knocking and your daughter is involved you're proud you're going good job that might be a good husband right there some guy who's willing to do that kind of stuff right to win good job and uh obviously uh she's extremely bright i I didn't ask her ACT score, but I'm guessing 36. And so, you know, this is what a match. This is great.

This is what you pray for, right? And this is what you, when your kids are born, you start praying for their spouse. And then you end up with something like this, and you get a touchdown. So very, very well done. And I got to tell you guys out there, too. Some of you people watch the news too much or you read these stupid clickbait articles and ridiculous things that are lies that are put all in the media. You see this stuff all the time. And a lot of it's trashing millennials. And I'm sick of it because I get to meet millennials just like these two all the time.

I meet them almost every day in this room right here doing this. And it's pretty stinking incredible what they're doing. And I know there's deadbeat millennials, but there's deadbeat baby boomers too. I mean, some of them are still hippies. And they're 64-year-old hippies. That's just stupid. That's just dumber than a rock right there. Weed Willie is 64 years old.

I mean, my God, at what point do you grow up? I mean, every generation has some deadbeats, right? Every generation does. And the millennials are no exception. But this millennial group, they are rock stars, man. This is a great generation. And the more I interact with them, I've got a whole ton of them on our team here. The more I interact with them, the more excited I am about the future of this nation.

Because they don't take any prisoners once they learn what the principles are. Once they learn what the truth is, there's no discussion about the fuzziness of it. They go for it. So very well done, Leo and Paige. Very proud of you guys great great job open phones at 888-825-5225 bucky is on facebook i live in las vegas and house prices and rent here are raising fast with the raiders stadium being built oh come on uh i can afford a house payment in the size we're looking at right now

but i'm still working our debt snowball should i purchase now to avoid the crazy prices in a year or rent longer anytime you are making a decision in finance that is that large based on fear you're making the wrong one and so dude there is always something that's causing house prices to go up. There's always something that's pushing the market around, and if you'll just dial back about six years, seven years, you'll see a bubble that burst in Vegas. It was the fastest-growing city in America. It was completely overpriced and it took

the hardest hit of almost any city in america when the 2008 bubble burst so uh don't be jumping in on the raiders stadium bubble oh my gosh for goodness sakes uh you don't want to go with that too is a probably a large property tax increase because you people are all paying for the stadium that's how this stuff works in every city and so um no you do not buy a house when you're in baby step two even if the raiders are building a stadium i hope that's helpful. Oh, that's silly. Well, it's frustrating when you're saving all you can to get out of debt and then you discover your insurance has bumped up your rate on your car

and your homeowners again. Hey, go to DaveRamsey.com slash ELP. Click on insurance. They will shop among a bazillion different companies and get you the best deal. Most people who work with one of our endorsed local providers on homeowners and car insurance save around $700 a year. They're independent insurance agents, and they have the freedom to shop hundreds of different companies to find what's right for you.

DaveRamsey.com slash ELP and click on insurance. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Daniel is with us in Missouri. Hey, Daniel, how are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, within the past year, I recently started my own business, and it's a vending machine business.

I place machines at locations, auto shops, stuff like that. And one thing I kind of ran into is that i'm expanding too quickly and i've been financing my machines it hasn't been to the point where it's like killing me in payments but it's getting to the point that it's more than more most people's mortgages so is it okay for me to finance these machines as long as they're making money no i wouldn't i mean you're asking me what i would do basically is it okay it's it's legal and you're a grown adult you're asking me what I would do, basically. Is it okay? It's legal, and you're a grown adult. You're allowed to do whatever you want to do.

I mean, that's a thing. But you're increasing the risk of your business failure substantially, and you've run it up to the point that you're feeling a pinch already. And if you continue, you're going to cross over the line from pinch and distress and then one little bump in the economy, and some of these machines go sideways on you or a technology shift and some of them become irrelevant and unusable. You're going to end up with a real problem. So we do all of our expansion here and have for 30 years at the speed of cash. I will be very open with you and tell you that as someone who's very aggressive and likes to grow business and I'm very entrepreneurial, I see opportunities and go after them.

There are times that I'm really frustrated because I have to grow slower than I like to grow. But one of the things that happens is, and I've been doing business a long time. You said you just started a few years ago or recently. And if you're entrepreneurial, you have an idea every morning in the shower or on the running trail or whatever you're doing. You know, sitting on the back porch of the cup of coffee. Every day you have two ideas or three ideas. And what you start to realize after you've been doing this a while is most of your ideas suck.

Most of mine have i got it we've got a huge business but we've made almost all of our brand penetration our success our money the help we give people on probably 10 percent of our endeavors the other 90 percent almost killed us you know and if we are and what happens is when you when you borrow into a bad decision you magnify it and the and you never know completely what a good decision or a bad decision is and so uh the borrowing only works out if everything works out and we're all sure that have been walking the planet for a while, everything doesn't work out. So how much do you owe on these machines? Overall, I've got $30,000 in debt on machines. Okay.

And what is your gross revenues on the thing right now? Before cost of goods sold, before anything, there's total top line take a year. $65,000. Okay. And then you've got cost to get sold out of that because the products that are coming out of the machines you're paying for right so about 30 is my net so you're netting 20 grand right is this your full-time job nope i also make a 50 000 a year i'm at the full-time job good as your side hustle okay what i would do if i woke

up in your shoes is i would um i do a different thing with business than i do with personal finance in terms of how to get out of this um i want to get you in a position that you have the money to continue to expand when you have a really sweet location. And I want to get you out of debt. So what we teach at Entree Leadership, as a matter of fact, I will teach this lesson tomorrow when I'm down there to you talking to these 650 Entree Leaders, is of your net profit, and in your case around $20,000, and you could just say of a net dollars in a month, you don't need any of

them to live on right you can live on your day job right okay and so um you can of your net dollars take a percentage for retained earnings meaning savings account to buy future machines and put the other percentage towards debt. Now, I would put the larger percentage towards debt. So it might sound something like I'm going to set aside 20% or 30% of my profits for growth and buy the new machines with cash out of that account. Okay. And then I'm going to put the other 70% or 80% towards this debt until this $30,000 is cleaned up.

Now, when the $30,000 is gone, then you can say, I might increase the amount I'm putting towards retained earnings so that I can expand more. As a matter of fact, in your situation, as long as this is a side hustle, you could put 100% of your profits towards new machines. I'm actually putting 100% of profits currently into, well, besides product costs and stuff, but that's already factored in. But I'm actually putting 50% of my own personal income into paying off machines at the same time.

Okay, okay. So you're already ahead of me, but that's the kind of formula I'm talking about. So what we do is you reverse this, you get rid of the debt, and then you have a mathematical system that plans for continual expansion. That make sense? Gotcha, yeah, absolutely. But now let's see, how many machines have you got now? Right now I'm sitting at 16.

16, and you did this over how many years? This is only over the past six months. Six months. Okay. So let's say that instead of doing a rate of 20 to 30 machines a year, that cash means you're only going to do a rate of 5 to 10 machines a year until you get more money, right? Because you're going to move at the speed of cash.

What that's going to force you to do, and I've experienced this multiple times in 30 years of doing this, what it's going to force you to do is you're going to do a more careful job of placing those machines because they're more scarce, and then your profit per machine is going to go up. True, yeah. Because you can't just throw them out everywhere you got to make the few that you got count and your brain starts thinking differently and the weird thing is when we get to the end of this story and you got a hundred machines out

there paid for they're all well placed machines versus you just threw them out there because you bought them with monopoly money. Right. It changes the way you do business, man, up and down the scale, all the way around the spirit of the thing, everything. It's not just the risk. But a very good job, man, very good job. And thanks for asking the question and letting me talk you through it. And I think you're going to do well.

By the way, vending machine business, great business. It's a wonderful business. I'm proud you're doing that. Anna is with us. Anna is in Minnesota. Hi, Anna. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I have a question. It's kind of about wills. So my husband and I are both on our second marriage, and we each have two biological kids from our previous marriages. He's got two. You've got two.

Yes, exactly. How old are they? His two boys are 19 and almost 18, and then I have a daughter and a son who are 14 and 11. Gotcha. Okay. Your question's what? Well, we were going over some questions that our attorney asked us to go through before we had an appointment to finalize our will. And one of them was, what do you want to happen to your retirement and life insurance if you were to die?

And I asked him what he wanted, and he said that he'd like it to go to his kids, and we might do a trust because one of them has special needs so that I thought was great um then I said that I would like my retirement and life insurance to go to my kids too um and set up a trust while they're minors, and I thought it was all fine, but he emailed me this morning and said that that actually wasn't okay, and I'm trying to figure out if it's the double standard that it seems like to me or if I'm just being totally ridiculous. No, I mean, it's illogical. Okay.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. That's kind of where I was going with it. But the thing is, too, you guys do whatever you want to do. It's your life and your money. And the beautiful part about doing a will is it makes you really work through these values. But if I were on a second marriage and my kids were grown i'd want to take care of my wife before i worried about them it's their job to take care of themselves now special needs accepted but um so i'm gonna try to do both but there you go i hope that's you know you just got to work

this through no what you experienced was illogical thanks for call. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Hey, it's Blake Thompson, Senior Executive Producer for the show. You know you can listen or watch anywhere with the Dave Ramsey Show app on your smartphone. Catch the full show or watch the highlights and check out Dave's upcoming guests. Head to the App Store and download it today.