The Ramsey Show - App - Anyone in America Can Become a Millionaire (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 16, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Diversifying investments outside of a 401(k), Dealing with an inheritance scam, Avoiding borrowing money to start a business, How a postal worker became a millionaire, Deciding when it's time to sell a car.   Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. This is The Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Ben is going to start us off this hour in Winston Salem. Hi Ben. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey David. Ken, how are y'all? Better than we deserve, brother. What's up, man? Good to hear.

Hey, I just wanted to make it brief. Uh, just wanted to ask you my company. Well, my wife and I has, um, recently got to baby step four, five and six. And, uh, had a question about investing. My company matches 6% and then my wife's company matches 3% on our 401ks. I guess

my question is, the 9% from my company that they don't match and the 12% from my wife's company that they don't match. Should we take that remaining percentage and go with a SmartVest or Pro or just keep it within our company 401k?

Okay, the rule of thumb is this. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So you do all the matching you can do, then you do all the Roth you can do, and if you do all of that and you're still not to 15%, then you would do traditional. Does either your wife or your company offer a Roth 401k? Yes, sir, both companies. They're both currently in a Roth 401k. Good, very good.

Okay, so you're going to take the full match there, obviously, and the match portion the portion the company puts in is technically not roth it's uh technically traditional and you can't do anything about that but the portion you're putting in is roth now are do you feel like the mutual funds that you can select from in both 401ks are good strong selections that you can get good funds there well i'll be honest with you dave i don't know a whole lot about stocks mutual funds um but i guess that's why i was asking um okay i i'm really not sure okay i'm not sure what's a good mutual fund and what's a good stock all right

well if you can get in good mutual funds at the work then it will be as good as doing a roth ira with good mutual funds with a smart investor proor Pro. The beauty of doing the SmartVestor Pro might be, in your case, though, that you get a teacher in your corner. That SmartVestor Pro will have the heart of a teacher to teach you about your mutual funds, and that will help you select the ones that work as well as the ones for the Roth IRA. So I probably would do at least one Roth IRA with a SmartVestor Pro and then have them give you some advice on where to put the rest of it whether you can put it in the 401k but you

got to put enough in to get the match in both cases and then you don't have to but that's what i would do and then i would do roth from there and you can either do roth with a smart vestor pro or roth in that 401k and you'll definitely be able to get to the full thing at that point so great job great job man very very well done that's beautifully played you know uh ken this this money thing and this job hunting thing and this mental health thing the stuff we deal with on the show all the time um there's something about those three different subjects there that they have in common that they're uh they're intimidating you know it it feels like you know i'm not i'm not a mental health expert i'm not a career expert i'm not a money expert so i don't know

what to do with my own life and those things and the good news is is that while the subjects you know they always have experts around those three things, but they're common sense. The solutions are common sense. That's correct. Just common country wisdom. Yeah, they feel very complex. And what the key to complexity is is always simplicity.

I always think about it, you know, if I ever got out in the garage, which I shouldn't be doing much with machines. No, you shouldn't. You should not. And you see all that trimming wire all tangled up. Well, there's only one solution to that, right? You either throw it away or you slowly start to unravel that. Oh, you're talking about your weed eater?

Oh, yeah, yeah. All that stuff gets all tangled up. There's not complexity there anymore. It's simplicity to get it untangled and untangling your financial life untangling work untangling your mental health all of that has a simple solution and it starts with hey how much of me is involved in this and what can i do what can i control and that's what we teach here is a clear path in all of those areas to say all right I can fix this it is fixable and when you decide that then you look into and you go what's the best way to fix it and you realize it's usually much simpler than you think but the fear and the doubt associated with these heavy topics tend to keep us kind of just on the edge of moving forward

to actually make a change. You know what, too, that goes with that is it's a human tendency. You and I share it with all of our listeners, too, that when something like that feels overwhelming or complicated or like over my head, then what I want to do is I just want to hand it to somebody who says they're an expert. Yes. And walk away and let them handle it because I don't want to screw with it.

But that very seldom turns out well. Instead, what you need to do is the experts that are in your life, like the Bible says, in the multitude of counsel, there is safety. And that doesn't say in the multitude of experts. True. It says counsel. Yeah. Counsel is teaching.

Yeah. Counsel is speaking into. And then you're. say in the multitude of experts true it says counsel yeah counsel is teaching yeah counsel is speaking into and then you're so what we always want to do at ramsey with any of these subjects is we want to give you information and if we connect you with someone um a mental health professional a uh a smart investor pro uh churchill mortgage we always are requiring them to be ramsey trusted on the other end and have this uh heart of a teacher because we always want you guys to make your own decisions and so if you can't make the decision it's because you don't have enough knowledge yet and you need to get knowledge in those areas so that guy's question was fabulous yeah really was because now he says i don't know much about this but i need to go to a smart investor pro because i think i need to know more

about it that's exactly right instead of i you know but don't don't tell me i got somebody managing my money no no no no you're managing your money yeah they're teaching you about how that's done helping you with that yeah or you know you know, I turned over my job search to another guy. No, no, no. You're in charge of your job search. That's correct. Here's how that will play out with that caller. You know, he's going to now sit down with a smart investor pro,

and he's going to understand his investment portfolio. He's going to understand the strategy. He's going to understand the things that you've taught us over the years, that you've taught callers, the rate of return, how you stay in the long game. He's going to learn all that. And here's what's going to happen. He'll never be a financial expert like a Smart Investor Pro, but because of that counsel, that advising, here's what happens. He's not going to get freaked out and get scared when the market dips for three straight months. He's not going to make risky moves. Why? He has a knowledge base and now some wisdom.

If you know what's going on, you sleep at night. That's correct. If you don't know what's going on, you're wondering if your guy down there is screwing you. That's true. It's hard to sleep at night. But when you know what you know and you made the call, then you can put your head on the pillow. It's not a problem. This is the ramsey chef សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225

right now you're hearing a lot of the talking heads the news stirring up all the fear about the real estate market. The market's going to crash. The market's going to crash. The market's going to crash. Let me help you with this. It's not going to crash. Sorry, spoiler alert. We have way too many buyers chasing too few homes. It's a pretty simple supply-demand equation. I know the economy sucks right now. I'm aware of that. I tried to fill up my truck the other day, and it maxed it out. But the stupid thing stopped before it let me fill it up. Yeah, you're taking too much. Yeah, I know.

It's a big old truck. But yeah, it's a big tank. But gee, me. Yeah, you know, here's the deal. Huge supply of homes in 2008. Not enough buyer demand. This is not 2008. It's quite the opposite here.

So we've done the hard work of vetting agents. If you're in the real estate market, you're thinking about selling, it's actually a good time to sell. The market's not white hot like it was where you get 38 offers in three minutes, but you're going to be able to sell the house in a normal marketing period of time these days. Pretty cool. And great time to buy a house because the market slowed down a little bit. You're not having to compete with 7,000 other people trying to buy the same house on the weekend. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent. Get with one of our endorsed local providers.

They're Ramsey trusted. And you need a good real estate agent, a great real estate agent in your corner to buy right now and especially to sell right now if you're thinking about selling this is the perfect time kids went back to school everybody's starting to think again about this the vacations are over from the summer uh yeah great time so go to ramseysolutions.com, and you can find the real estate agent in your area that we recommend. Clement is with us. Clement is in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Clement. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, I just want to say it's an honor to talk to you guys both today. I was approached by a lawyer from Canada about a person with the same last name I have who deceased a while back, roughly nine years ago. And they approached me saying that there's some money left behind in the insurance policy after he died, roughly $13 million. And they approached me saying that, hey, we wanted to tap into that and you can be a beneficiary. One thing we ask is that we give 10% to either a local charity or a church of your choosing and then we would split the remainder 50-50. I want to know if this is a common thing or not or if I'm getting scammed.

You're getting scammed. Yeah? It's a scam. Oh. No. There's no such thing as an insurance policy where a lawyer gets 50% of it for finding you. Not even in Canada. I don't know why that got me so good.

I'm sorry. There's just no such thing, Clement. I mean, that's just complete bogus clement i mean that's just that's complete bogus crap the person of the same name you don't even know a relative you don't even never even heard of them you had no idea you knew anybody in canada you yeah you don't you know and so and the next thing is they're going to want some money from you up front to get this all settled and figured out because you've got to pay the up front fees to get the documentation done

or some crap, and that's where they scam you. But there's not a, you know, sorry, I hate to burst your bubble, but there's a Nigerian prince also that wants some help getting his money out. If you haven't heard that one, it's very similar. Yeah, there's just not there's no such product out there there's no uh process in the legal system on probate no lawyers of any kind that do probate law uh take half for distributing an inheritance that they had nothing to do with they just don't do it there's no such thing

nor do they nor they do they demand what you do with the money like give 10 of it that's what i was getting at the scammer with a heart oh we want you to give some well that's to give the thing credibility right yeah possibly yeah he didn't say he was going to get half of it he said i i would be liable to paying him half after i received a full amount yeah it's it's a straight up this is a standard scam procedure and um you're going to have to put the money up somewhere and at some point before you get money and that's when they're going to take you uh they're going to it's you know so no uh as a matter of fact if i were you i would report this to the fbi huh okay because i'm pretty sure this is going on quite a bit and you know this is this thing's coming waves but i'm sorry i wish you were getting half of 13 million dollars i wish that for you out of the blue from nowhere but i can there's nothing

about this that doesn't smell like a scam i would waste no time on it and for sure don't give them any of your banking information don't give them any card information don't give them any any further information on you that they can use to trap you into some kind of corner later because this is what they're after here and uh and they're use to trap you into some kind of corner later because this is what they're after here. And they're going to be persistent, and they're going to make fun of you and do all kinds of things. And what you need to do is just get away from them as fast as you can. This is a bad deal here. I just don't know what to say.

I mean, wow, that's pretty bold. Well, they do it all the time. There was one, I'm trying to remember how they did it. It was the Spanish lottery. And it came out of Canada, too. And it was a standard scam. And I don't remember the process on it. It was called the Spanish lottery.

And they would call you up and say, you won the Spanish lottery. And I'm like, I didn't know I was in it. Right. And so, yeah. Don't you have to buy a ticket? But then you had to post the money in order to prove that it was you and then they would switch it around and then by the time they switched it around your part never came but they took the part that you put in and it's it's a it was a

process i can't remember the details of how it rolls out but it's very very interesting so um yeah check it out open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. Calvin is with us in Canada, oddly enough. Hey, Calvin, you're not an attorney in Canada, are you? Nope, I'm a real estate agent. Okay. I'm an entrepreneur.

Got it. Cool. How can we help? I'm looking at starting a business. I'm wondering how I can do this without a credit score. I wouldn't. It's going to cost me about $500,000 to get off the ground, and it's an advertising company.

It's going to cost me that much. I wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it? Nope. I wouldn't go a half million dollars in debt to start a business. Okay, so how would you go about starting an advertising company where your building cost for each billboard poll is about $100,000, but you can get that paid off with a 20% margin in two years? Hypothetically, there's a rule in business.

Everything takes twice as long as you think it's going to. It costs twice as much, and you're not the exception and so you've run a pro forma out on some kind of best case scenario here that's got you dreaming and you're willing to take an unreasonable amount of risk to get into this this is a story that ends up in bankruptcy here brother i've been doing this for 30 years and i i started this business on a card table in my living room and we've grown it to 300 million dollars in volume in revenue this year with zero debt along the way. But it took a little while. So how would you go about building this?

Take a couple years to save up the money to pay for these polls in cash? Yep. Yeah. Yep. Buy fewer of them, and boy, when they start cash flowing without any debt against them, they're going to cash flow like bandits if they do what you think they're going to do. How do you think that interests you? Yeah, they rent out for about $ out for about 11 000 to pull that's not bad what do you make now

uh right now i'm making about 150 to 200 i've been in uh as a i've been a real estate agent for about a year cool so buy five poles a year 50 grand well the poles i'm looking at building they're a bit larger a bit more permanent and that's why you can charge more for them i thought you said you could earn for 11 000 a poll no no 100 000 a poll they they earn you 11 000 a month oh oh oh 100 000 oh really i just wonder calvin how did that industry do when your prime minister literally shut the entire country down? I mean, there was still, I'm not too sure. I haven't looked into those statistics.

I'd look into them. But I know that right now, all of the areas around Calgary, the companies that are in it are expanding currently. Okay. Yeah. It's a highly speculative business. Yeah. I'm not borrowing $500,000 to start buying advertising polls

I think you're missing some parts of this business that you haven't considered I can't tell what it is in a 3 minute radio call but that's the answer to the question I would save up and buy one then I'd save up and buy another then I'd save up and buy another

and if you're making as much money as you think you're going to make on them you're going to cash flow your way into a whole bunch of them within five years. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining usica we're glad you are here open phones at 888-825-5225 eileen is with us in connecticut hey eileen how are you hi dave how are you better than i deserve i am i'm a first-time caller but i listened to you for a long time well thank you how can we help i am going to turn 59 1⁄2, and I was thinking of paying off my mortgage with my TSP, something. Cool. How much is your mortgage? 82,000 left. How much in the TSP?

730,000. Great. Do it. Do it. Okay. Yep. So you've got to make it on 600,000. Great. Do it. Do it. Okay. Yep. So you've got to make it on $600,000 with no debt. Life's rough.

Right. And I have another Roth outside the PSP, too. You killed it, girl. You're a millionaire. What's the house worth? $320,000. I told you you're a millionaire. Wow. I'm so proud of you. I'm glad'm so proud of you you ever thought about it i mean you add up what you what you own minus what you owe and if it's one million or greater you're a

millionaire yeah you know i've thought about it yeah hard to believe it took a while but yeah well i mean this is what you've been doing what'd'd you do for a living? Right. Post office. What'd you do at the post office? Just a clerk inside, you know. Just a clerk millionaire. Right. I started at, what, $30,000? And this is a high point, $69,000.

But I've been there 35 years. You're single? Yes. Well, I'm divorced. Yes, there was a divorce in the middle there how long you've been divorced in one oh 15 years okay all right and one son he's 22 yeah yeah so you can do it hey uh i want you to go look in the mirror because you're pretty impressive woman oh okay your dad got a millionaire as a post office clerk shut up this is this amazing

it's freaking amazing yeah you did good you did good i'm kind of a kind of a nerd yeah well you've been the tortoise so long you forgot it was impressive yep you're steady you're predictable yes right and all those not all those nights you wondered if you were going to make it when you're going through this divorce right now they all paid off yeah you made it a little nerve-wracking you made it you made it you did it that's great to hear that for me i mean you're 69 years old you get six hundred seven hundred thousand dollars with a paid for house after this conversation nine well i say 60 years old 59 60 yeah i mean yeah yeah close enough i mean you're 59 and a half to do this but yeah ding ding

thank you yeah what do you tell people that their secret to being a millionaire is uh you just gotta be disciplined and just you know every week it just automatically goes in and that's it what kind of uh which funds did you use in the tsp the c uh cs and i mostly see you though yeah so you've been following our stuff for a long time? A long time, yeah. How long? In my, oh, 15 years or more. Yeah, wow. You're a Baby Steps millionaire.

Yeah, my son, listen, we used to go on rides to Vermont, and I'd have you on in the car. So now he's very money savvy. Good. Good to have a 22-year-old that's money savvy. They don't live in your basement that way oh no he left yeah he's out west yeah well very well done what are you going to do to kick up your heels and enjoy your life now i don't know i haven't decided yet three to five years i plan

to retire so we'll see you like to to travel? Yeah, yeah. What kind of car do you drive? Subaru. Five-year-old used Subaru. Okay. When you retire, I want you to get a good car. A better car, okay? A nice car.

You're driving a car like a post office clerk, not like a millionaire. You hear me? Okay. I want you to enjoy a little bit of this money. And I want you to be generous with some of this money. So I want to hear about some kind of like cool trip you did. Like you went to Switzerland or you rode a cruise ship down the Danube. I don't know what you want to do.

What is it you want to do you need to go do that and you need to get you a little better car and just drive around the big old millionaire smile on your face okay i'm so proud of you hang on i'm gonna send you a copy of baby steps millionaires since you are one now that's fun ken coleman it's really fun because you could literally hear the light bulbs going off multiple times. You turned the light bulbs on in multiple rooms of her head there. It was like, oh, okay, I am awesome. And I was disciplined. That was really sweet.

Really sweet to see that. And she's been through it, you know. And yet she stayed the course. Really exciting. I want to know what car she's going to buy. That's kind of fun. You'd have to literally convince her to do it. Oh, I'd have to take her to the dadgum lot, I'm afraid.

You'd have to drive her up there. Just drive her up and go, you're getting this one. But yeah, because it's one of the things that those of us that you grind and you grind and you hustle and you grind and you grind and you don't even look up. Yeah, that's right. And then when you look up, you go, oh, look at there. And then you have to build a new muscle. And that's the muscle of enjoying the money. It's right. And then when you look up, you go, oh, look at there. Right. And then you have to build a new muscle. Yeah. And that's the muscle of enjoying the money.

It's true. And being generous with the money at a different level than never before. Because your emotions are still functioning down at one level, but your money's up at another level. Right. Well, you told her, she said, I'm a nerd. You said, well, you've been a tortoise so long, you haven't noticed and she she's already crossed the finish line she didn't realize she won the race like she just kept her head down she crossed the finish line right and she just keeps on going and for the next three to five years she's going to stack more money yeah you

know because now she has a paid for house yeah or it's about to i was telling a group of business leaders the other day i'm there i'm a turtle on leaders the other day, I'm a turtle on a fence post. If you ever see a turtle on a fence post when you're walking down a country lane, you'll know two things. One is he didn't get there by himself. That's right. It's the truth. And two, he's a bit surprised.

What am I doing here? Yeah, that's the feeling you have when you cross over that apex on your wealth building. You've been pushing the rock up the hill for so long. When it finally goes over the hill, you're like, oh, God, what do I do now? I didn't even – this actually worked. Oh, my gosh. It's true. And that's a standard emotion of how do I stop and be generous? How do I stop and enjoy?

And you don't have to become irrational. I don't want to go buy a two hundred thousand dollar car but she sure doesn't need a twenty thousand dollar one um out of eight hundred thousand or a million dollar net worth now and that kind of thing so what a wonderful wonderful thing so here's what i want um um we need to somehow bottle that call and for the the group in america that's out there saying you can't make it in america today we need to remind you that a postal clerk just called here yeah making 35 to 69 000 through her working lifetime and became a millionaire by 59 we need to remind you people the little man

can't get ahead the rich just keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer wealth inequality is not fair let me tell you what the fair is the fair is where the tilt of world is and the cotton candy is that's what fair is what's fair is that woman put money into her TSP and didn't go out to eat while your butt was down there stuffing tacos. And then you want to go, well, it's not fair. Let me tell you what's not fair. It's not fair that you want some of her money and you just let this president raise taxes on her.

Tax bill just went through that raised taxes on her. That's not fair. Oh oh now you're getting me excited i mean really and so this is this crap man and this idea that you know this country is so broken that people can't get ahead that sweet little lady there it's true just worked steady worked hard worked disciplined worked. She had a life. She didn't live in a cave and collect lint and only come out on Drupal Coupon Thursday. But she was diligent, she was intentional,

and she became a millionaire by 59. And then you call me up and tell me it can't happen in America today. Kiss my butt. It can, too. It absolutely can. I talk to these people every day. Every day, everywhere I go. And I can't stand it when you hope stealers out there, in the name of your leftist agenda,

keep telling people that this place is so broken that you can't win. Hey, we got our problems, but we're still the best shot you got if you're the little man in the entire world. America's still the best shot for the little man in the entire world. That's still the best shot for the little man in the entire world. That's a statistical fact, you morons. This is The Ramsey Show. our scripture of the day first peter 4 10 each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. Tony Dungy says, it's all about the journey, mine and yours, and the lives we can touch, the legacy we can leave, and the world we can change for the better. Truly one of the nicest people on the dadgum planet. That guy is incredible.

All class. No question about it. Greg is with us. Greg's in Rhodeode island hi greg how are you good dave how are you better than we deserve what's up thank you guys for taking my call long time listener first time caller so appreciate it um i'm calling with a question regarding whether or not uh it would be a good idea for my wife and I to sell one of our cars. Okay. Why would you do that? Well, we are moving this fall to Tennessee, and we currently have two cars, and due to the fact that we sometimes commute to work, but we have jobs that have allowed us to go fully remote once we move,

so we're no longer going to need the two cars. Um, so to avoid the expense of shipping one of them, we didn't know if it was worth it given the market and knowing that, um, we're planning on having kids within the next three years. Um, we'd be wanting to get another one at that point. So, um, what are the cars worth? So I've gotten a few estimates on the one we're looking to sell. And if we went through a dealer and sold it to them, it would be anywhere from $9,000 to $11,000. But if we tried to do a private party, I think it would be a little bit more than $11,000.

Okay. Do you owe anything on these cars? No, they're both paid for. What do you owe anything on these cars no they're both paid for what do you guys make we make around uh 180 uh 185 000 household income okay um i would keep the car until you make the move and get settled in the new life and make sure you don't need it it's only eleven thousand dollars if you get to tennessee and you're doing the home life and make sure you don't need it. It's only $11,000. If you get to Tennessee and you're doing the work-from-home thing and you settle in on the rhythm of that for a few months and you go, really, one of these cars is kind of stupid sitting here, then you can dump it then.

But let's test your theory against real life first because there's not enough money to matter in your situation. Okay, yeah. The other side to it, I don't know if I mentioned, but we are in Baby Step 2, and we have about $58,000 left in debt to pay off. But we started at $120,000. What's the other car worth? Probably just a few thousand more than that, maybe like $15,000.

Your cars aren't your problem. You just had to get organized with your $180,000 income and start knocking the 58 out, right? Yeah, yeah. We started actually paying down the 120 in November of last year, and now it's down to 58. Way to go. Wow.

So by, what, six more months, you're done at that rate. Yeah, I think our estimated payoff is something like uh end of february or beginning of march yeah that's what i was thinking yeah very good very good and if the shipping in eleven thousand dollar car is a problem just drive it true yeah just drive it down here and you know then you're in tennessee and i i if it was you know a bigger percentage of your income or a bigger percentage of your debt, if it was a bunch of money as a ratio somehow, yeah, I'd probably dump it at that point.

I mean, tell me the car is worth 50 grand. Yeah. I might dump it, you know, but it's $11,000 in your situation with as much money as you make. I wouldn't, it just doesn't move the needle mathematically. And so I personally keep it, drive down to tennessee part you know get your life settled get yourself out of debt and then you go i don't need this car sitting around then you get rid of it but it's not really a math it's not really a a financial necessity that you

do that or a math-based need tom is in grand rapids michigan hey tom welcome to the ramsey show thanks dave how are you doing today better than i deserve what's up so um this is a question of integrity i've paid off about sixty thousand dollars in debt and i have just a few thousand left three thousand on a credit card that i'm ninety nine percent sure that i did not um that i did not take out this credit card, that it's like an identity theft type of thing. Have you paid on it before? No, I have not.

You've not paid a dime on it? No. It was on the very end of my debt snowball. When did you find out about it? About like nine months, 12 months ago. Why did you not report it as identity theft then? Because I'm not 100% sure about it. And when I contacted the bank, Huntington Bank, to get the transaction history, I spent about a year trying to get the transaction history, and they won't give it to me. So because they won't give it to me, I have no idea if I actually took it out or not.

So I'm not comfortable yet going to the police and filling out a criminal report for a crime that might not have happened. Okay, I'm a little bit confused about how your life operates where you don't know if you spent $3,000 or not. Yeah, yeah. It's from like five years ago is when it was taken out and it was taken out alongside of another, there were two credit cards taken out in my name. One was certainly me. The second one, I'm 99.9% sure it wasn't me. So this puts me in a place where my question is, is if I find out that it, well, I guess it doesn't matter if it was me or not. The integrity thing is, I should just pay it off. It's my name. I should be responsible for my name. You're not responsible for identity theft. Not morally, not under any definition of integrity.

Those people are bank robbers. You're not responsible for them robbing the bank. So then it sounds to me like you're leaning towards the option that my integrity is trying to tell me to lean away from, and that's let the banks... You have a wrong definition of integrity, sir. If someone else robs a bank, it is not your job to make the bank whole. That is not integrity. They robbed a bank someone robbed a bank of three thousand dollars just because they used your name to do it doesn't make you liable okay i think you're feeling guilty for being so disorganized five years ago that you're not even sure if this is yours no no it's not a feeling of guilt at all.

It's like a thing of, I think that our country lacks integrity. I don't disagree with that. If you told me you had taken this loan out, I would tell you to pay it as a matter of integrity. But you didn't take the loan out is what you're telling me. I mean, 99.9% is kind of like 100. Okay, well, let me give you just a real brief backstory. At the time that this happened, I was living in a really bad area of town

that was overrun by gangs because I was house-sitting a house for somebody for my church. I didn't realize that that's what I was getting into at the time, but that's what I ended up getting myself into. But I'm the one who made the decision to go and live in that bad area, and while I was in that bad area, I'm pretty sure this identity theft thing happened. I think that's where my guilt is. I made a bad decision because of the bad decision that I made. You lived in an area where people robbed banks.

One of them robbed a bank that does not make you responsible for robbing a bank because you lived in an area where people rob banks if you'll think of this as a bank robber it'll help you work through the ethics of it yeah i hear what you're saying but it's not okay dude go pay the bill if you want i'm not paying the bill if i don't know it i'm not i'm done arguing with you yeah okay but that that is it not a little fishy dave that he calls the holder the bank of the credit card and says this is me and i'm getting bills for this i want to see the transaction history and they won't share it with him that seems a little squishy weird to me well that's

yeah it is weird something's not adding up and then he feels like he's got to die on this hill here so i and how do you 99.9 the point one i i think he's 100 sure that he didn't take it out i think he is i think he's 100 sure that he didn't do this but he still feels like he has to do it for some reason i don't know where that's coming from it's it's it is not an integrity issue listen if you call the show and tell me you don't want to pay a bill that you owe i'm gonna i'm gonna be all over your butt for integrity okay i do it all the time and i have for 30 years but when someone steals your identity you are not responsible under any scenario for that just because you lived in an area where identity thieves live i mean if you live in canada and there's an attorney there in

canada that's trying to rip somebody off on a 13 million dollar scam are you liable because you live in canada no you're not this is just that's just absurd this this this was that hour for sure that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.