The Ramsey Show - App - Are Student Loans Worth It if I Get a Better Job? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your money, your work, and your relationships. Phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me, and we're excited to have you with us.

One phone call away. We'd love to help you out today. Let's start it off this hour with Michelle in Cincinnati, Ohio. Michelle, how can we help? Hi. I just have a question about career paths for the most part. Okay. A little bit of background.

I have a master's degree in aviation and transportation, and I was actually originally going to college to become a pilot. I was almost to the end of my first certification to becoming a pilot, and both of my parents actually got cancer within two years of each other and then ultimately passed. But that was me dropping the flight program for my degree. So I went ahead and finished the administration side of aviation and then continuing and getting my master's degree. Okay. Now I help manage flights during day-to-day operation with an airline.

And my income and my career is not going where I want it to be. My concern is we have, for a breakdown, our mortgage is $280. It's down to $270,000 now. And then our total debt other than the mortgage is about, I've got $70,000 in student loans still, a $40,000 personal loan that me and my husband took out. And then we also have the rest is credit card debt, which I've got my husband's credit cards halfway paid off because we're in baby step number two, we're snowballing. What's your income?

My husband just got his new management position this year. So going forward, our income is his 82 minus 60. And then with overtime, I bring home almost 86 last year, and then I also just got a second job as well so that we can try to pay off the debt faster. Okay. All right. So what's your... My question is, I'm concerned with moving the kids around, but should I go and take additional loans and go back to school and finish my pilot certification and obviously go and be a pilot and make a lot more money, pay off the debt faster, or I would have to get into more debt to do that?

No. No. I think because right now, think about what you're doing. I think you stay where you are as it relates to paying off the debt. Stay where you are is only referring to let's not take out any additional loan for becoming a pilot. But I would love to work out a plan that says, okay, how much longer if we stay where we are financially and we get serious about paying the debt off, how long before we're in a position where we've paid the debt off, we have an emergency fund, three to six months, and we're beginning to invest 15% of our income.

That's baby steps one, two, three, and four there. And now we start to go, okay, how much time will it take me to save up money, become a pilot? Because right now there's a huge need in the industry. So while you're going to have to be patient, there's going to be a number of years attached to that. You can actually get there. But this time when you get there, there's no debt. You just get to go fly the friendly skies and really realize all of that increased income. So what I'm describing isn't fun,

and it certainly requires a lot of patience, but in the end, it's going to be so much better for you. Got it. So how much is going to cost? Sorry, George. One other thing. You've got to figure out how you can increase your income with that master's degree now. You know, you're making, you're making, let's call it $83,086, I thought you said. You know, you're making, let's call it $83,086, I thought you said. You know, what must be true for you to be making six figures with that education you have? And instead of working a second job, I'm wondering, and I love that you're working a second job, but I'm wondering what does it take to get you on a path to six figures pretty quickly with that current education? Sorry, George. That was kind of my last thought on that.

So what is the schooling going to cost? For the rest of the certification, it would be $70,000 to $100,000. Yeah, it's insanely expensive. So I want to paint the picture of what happens if you go down this path because you're like, well, I'll make more money it'll be great well now you're 250 000 in debt with no savings for the foreseeable future hoping that we can then clean up this mess and so what we're saying to do is let's go slow so we can go fast later let's clean up the mess let's get some savings in place let's cash flow this schooling and it it might delay the dream, but it's also going to help your future and wealth move at a faster pace down the line.

Yeah, that makes sense. And so I know that's not the exciting news you wanted to hear, and I believe you'll be a pilot. How old are you? 35. Okay. So we're talking about how long is the schooling going to take from when you start to when you're actually flying? What does that look like? How many years? I already have all of the education basis. It would just be the flight time and certification.

Okay, so we're talking a few years? Probably about a year, year and a half of certification for flight time purposes. Michelle, I'm wondering, have you heard of any airline or maybe private aviation company essentially paying for someone like you because they need pilots? And so they're willing to, if you're going to sign on with them, they would either reimburse you or they would pay for your education. Does that happen in that industry? I just simply don't know. Yes, they do that. The minimum qualification, you have to obtain your private pilot certification first. So what's that cost?

That would cost anywhere from $4,000 to $10,000 for me to get that. So you're telling me you spend $10,000 and you will get the rest covered for free from a company? Correct. Let's pursue that path when the time comes. That's what I'd be doing. George, let me ask this. I'm okay with her trying to cash flow that while paying off debt. I guess my point is I'd put that in the budget. I would still work the snowball, but I'd cut- Have a separate fund. I would cash flow that because that's about increasing the income and she could

save the $4,000 relatively quickly. Yes, Michelle? Yes. Yeah, it would take a few months. My husband's looking for a second job as well. What's keeping you from pursuing that? Right now, all of the debt that we have, every penny that we're making right now is just allotted into that. Okay. And again, that's the way we teach. But you made 26 grand, you said in overtime, right? Correct. And so I would make a plan to go, hey, we're going to attack our debt within this time period, and the extra money I'm going to put away into this separate fund to cover this certification. That's what I do. George, are you okay with that?

I like this plan. Taking maybe the second job? Are you going to be able to continue working while doing this pilot certification? Yes. Yes, I can. Okay. If it doesn't give you a gap in income, I think this is the plan to help you get ahead faster while still paying off the debt. And I do believe your husband working extra as well for a season, you guys can be out of this debt within a few short years if you get focused.

And it's going to go faster while we're paying off debt and we get a big, big shovel in the form of a massive promotion. She buried the lead there. We're getting this covered, Ken. I like this plan. That's right, man. Leave us. Dude, you and I, we're like little detectives.

Tiny detectives. Tiny little detectives. I'm like Wishbone, man. With our little magnifying glasses, walking around, looking for clues. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me.

The phone number is 888-825-5225. Thomas is going to start us off this segment in Cincinnati, Ohio. Thomas, how can we help? Hey, George, how you guys doing?

Doing well. What's going on? Not a whole lot. Um, my wife and I are currently on baby step two, just turning through that debt. We last month just paid 15, just about $15,000 off, and I still have about $7,000 in my stocks that I have

from my stock purchase program at work. And we're just not sure what to do with the remaining seven grand. We have about $22,000 left in our debt snowball. Cool. So this would definitely speed up the process to liquidate these stocks. What's holding you back from just selling the stocks and being debt free faster? Yeah. So, you know, it took me about a year, maybe 18 months to get my wife on board with, you know, the debt snowball and just kind of following the baby steps each part of the way. But, um, you know, it's just that safety net of just having that extra money. Like we have the thousand dollar emergency fund, of course, baby step one,

but, um, just having that seven grand in case something were to happen unexpectedly. We do drive order cars to not have car payments. Um, we own our home, not outright, but we're not renting, I guess. And so just having that extra 7,000 just kind of gives her peace of mind and happy wife, happy life kind of situation. Well, let's play this out. And I'll tell you, this is a guy who did the exact thing you're doing. I had some employee stocks when I worked at the Apple store. And to finish off my debt payoff, I sold those stocks.

And my nerd friends are like, I can't believe you know what those stocks would be today. And I go, you know, it really doesn't matter. Because where I'm at now and the level of wealth I've built because I got debt-free faster and I got that pep in my step, I don't look back at the what-ifs. And so as far as safety, you're invested in a single stock. And this isn't even money sitting in savings, right? That's correct. So I wouldn't exactly call this a safety net. And you were just mentioning. Oh, it was Apple. Okay. There you go. Which historically, you know,

Apple's got enough cash. They're not going to go bankrupt anytime soon, but I don't think you're going to have the, there's either two things happening here. Either you want to hang on to them because it's going to appreciate and you don't want to lose that, or it truly is a safety net where you go, well, there's technically seven-ish thousand here in case something happens. But you just told me you paid off 15 grand in a month, right? Yeah, that was all from the same bucket. I had 22,000 and I sold 15 of it to really just speed this up. We paid all my wife's credit cards off and now we just have our student loans. And you freed up payments there. And so if you liquidate the stocks, you pay down your debt, you're down to $15,000 left, right?

Yeah. Okay. How quickly will you pay off the remainder of the 15 at that point? Well, my baby steps is on my phone, so I'm not going to go on speakerphone. But are we talking three months, six months? I would say it'd probably be more of like maybe a 12-month situation. What's your household income? We make $115,000 combined. That's before tax. And you can only put $1,000 toward the debt if that's your only debts left? I believe so. I think we can do better than that. Let me rephrase. No, I'm so sorry. It would be, sorry, we could do a thousand or more,

actually. We could do about 1200. Okay. And I think you can do even better than that once you free up some more of these payments and knock out some more of these individual student loans. Because if we're talking, you know, let's say seven months at 2000 a month, this thing's about knocked out. And so that becomes the goal. How do we find $2,000 in margin every single month? And that might mean cutting the subscriptions, making more side hustles over time, you name it. But I think that's the path for you guys to then get to long-term safety, real safety, which is building the emergency fund up

to three to six months of expenses. Okay. I agree with you guys 100%. I think having this conversation and, you know, kind of hearing it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, would, you know, take a little more weight. I'm the horse. Yes. Well, I don't know. She's not going to be convinced by a guy on the radio or on YouTube. You can be the camel.

Thank you. Out of the camel's mouth. Yes. But if I may, if I could ask you one additional question that I wanted to ask. We will allow it today. We will allow it because you're such a good guest. I really appreciate that, guys. So we iron all this debt out. We get our three to six months of emergency funds. I currently work full time, same with my wife. I'm in school right now, part-time, and was wondering, would you say it would be okay if I were to drop to part-time work and full-time school to expedite my career path? Okay. How

quickly would it make this expedition happen? And then what would be the financial benefit of this? Sure. So I'm currently doing three classes, going three semesters a year. It would take me about four years, four and a half years to get my associate's degree. And if I go full time, it would take me about 18 to 24 months to get this done. And I would be going for my mechanical engineering technology degree. So what do you estimate? I know you can't give me an exact number, but what do you estimate the bump in salary would be after the 24 months? If I assume I make about 50 right now, well,. Well, I can't assume. I know I make $50,000 right now. I would assume I would make at least $60,000. I would be surprised if I didn't.

Yeah, I would be thinking $75,000 to $100,000 with that mechanical engineering degree. Well, it's an associate's degree, so I would still be working for that four-year. I see. Are you cash-flowing all the school? How are you paying for this? So I have an Ohio 529 account that my family was nice enough to start for me. It's enough to get me started, and then my work pays me back about $52.50 a year.

And so right now it's been covering it just fine. So if you drop down into part-time work it's not going to really affect your budget that much if we're debt-free i would assume it wouldn't at all because we if we have so much margin to get ourselves then i would do that you know so once you're debt-free with the emergency fund then you can drop down to accelerate the schooling yeah and cash flow the rest. That's the key. Yeah.

That's when I would do it. If that's how you're going to do it, I'd say do that. Because I think you've proven to us that it's a real fast forward button. And now selling the stocks becomes a part of that plan to accelerate the schooling. Because the faster we're debt free, the faster we can go to part time, the faster we get through school. There's the domino effect there. I like it. I think that's the story that you talked to your wife about, not, hey, Ken and George

said. It's, hey, think about it this way. I can get through school this much faster, so let's get out of debt as fast as we can, which means we're going to liquidate the stocks. I have to take responsibility for all this? No, I'm kidding. Yes. But the good news is it's on YouTube. You can have her watch it back. You know, that

way she's not just hearing you say, well, I found out from the camel's mouth or whatever it is. Ken's face does all the selling. It's the moneymaker right there. Is that right? I hope that helps you, Thomas. Yeah, I think it's a good plan. And I think the key here, just a little marital or maybe some relationship communication advice, when doing something like this, if there's a little bit of pushback, then you always have to assume there's something fear-based there. So instead of just trying to

convince and persuade, step back a little bit and go, what would be the concern or fear with this idea? Let me ask. And my wife tells me, and then I go, oh. So all of a sudden now I see her position and I can understand her position, and therefore now I have to address that concern with this plan and show her how this plan doesn't make that concern a reality or whatever. But you've got to really think through that piece. It's like the opposite of a politician. Instead of just dodging it, you're actually trying to get to the root of the problem there.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And that'll help with this. And it's a little bit of vision casting to say, hey, this may feel risky, but let's look at all sides. Yeah, because when he asked us the question, should I do it? What is the first thing we do? We ask questions back. Well, okay, what's that look like? And all we're doing is pulling out the information. You have to do the same thing. Present all the information. Let them ask questions. Address all the concerns. That's right.

And then I think you're going to be much more effective. Good stuff. By the way, have you ever looked into a camel's mouth, George? I haven't too closely. You don't want to get too close. Because you rode a camel, didn't you? They're pretty gross. They don't brush their teeth.

I floss twice a day. Do you really? Yeah. Your neuroticism has no bounds. I got my dental cleaning tomorrow. Can't wait to tell them. It's going to be a good report. This is the Ramsey Show. This is the Ramsey Show, America, and we are thrilled that you have decided to join us.

I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Paul joins us now in Springfield, Missouri. Paul, how can we help? Hey, guys. Yeah, I'm calling in because I am currently trying to figure out a career path.

So I was in medical school and did not pass. So I now have $50,000 currently in debt, but I have the option to go back to medical school in August. My problem here is I'm thinking if it's worth it financially to go back to medical school and try to complete it, or if I should try to go into a different career path, such as healthcare administration, because I could do my master's online in like two years as I continue to work full-time. Well, I've got to dig. What was the cause of you failing out? I mean, it was close. I just didn't quite pass. Well, hold on a second. Hold on. I'm not trying to be unkind, but there's not such a thing as I didn't quite pass. You failed. So I want to get to what you believe is the reason. Is it just it's really, really hard for you or something else happened? Because it leads to what my answer might be.

I feel like it was more had to do with just not having the right study plan in effect because I was doing really well in the beginning, but I think I did bad balancing studying and actual balance with making sure I'm still taking time with my wife and doing other things in life. I think I was just so focused on the school that I burnt out because I started off top 10% of my class. Oh, okay. That's what I'm getting at. Here's my point. I could never pass medical school and it would have nothing to do with burnout. That part of my brain's dead. I can't do math and science. You're sitting here today with full confidence that you've got the intellect

to be able to finish med school and crush it. Yes. That's very different. But the challenge is the debt. It's just absurd to me. So you're already 50 grand in. If you were to go back in, I mean, you don't have the cash for this, correct? Correct. So forgive my ignorance, but what is the process to retake the exam?

Do you have to go all the way back through, or what's the cost and time? I have the ability to come back. I don't have to retake any exams. So I was in medical school, didn't pass the first year, but you're able to go back to repeat as a quote-unquote remediating student. So I can go back and start in August at half tuition for that year, but then every year after that will be the same price. So what's the bill?

For the four-year education, it's $50,000 tuition per year, so $200,000 plus the 50 I have, so it would be $250,000. Yeah, I just, ugh. Okay, let's look at the alternative path. So the health administration, what's required for that? So I could get a two-year online degree and then work full-time um so just be work it would just be doing the online degree in two years because i have a bachelor's what does that cost it would be uh 14 000 for the whole degree oh

that's fantastic i like that plan and then what would you be making in that field? Obviously less than if you were an MD. Right. I'd be making, once I'm out, estimated like $60,000 to $70,000 a year to start. See, and I always answer this question, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with what I teach here at Ramsey Solutions, but I mean, I want you doing something that you were designed to do. It's what you're wired for is a phrase that I like to use, right? We all know you've got the talent. We know you love it. That's the passion. And there's a sense of mission behind it. You go, this work is meaningful to me. And I just wonder, do you feel that sense towards being a doctor? Did you feel that? You go, man, I really, really want to be a doctor. Yeah, I feel more that push towards being a doctor, but I definitely have an overall passion just for healthcare, which is why healthcare administration I wouldn't rule out. I think I feel that passion, though, more for just being a physician. I guess my question was, because, I mean, I'm married, so we're trying

to make this decision together. I'm just trying to figure out if it's financially even smart, because for the four years of medical school, I mean, I come out with $250,000 to $300,000 in debt. Then you're three years in residency making $60,000 a year. Yeah, you're buried. I have to start paying back for that. And then after that three years of residency, now I'd be out making $300,000 a year. So with that salary, I'm just trying to say, is that salary, if I know I can go through and get it done, is it not worth it still? I don't think so.

You're never going to hear us on the show say, yeah, go 200 grand into debt. It'll be fine. Well, it's going to be 250, first of all. And then several years later, you're finally making 300,000. You start running the numbers. And how much of that income are you going to actually be able to keep? The answer is just bare bones. And so you've gone through all this work, all this time to be, you know, barely making it. Here's what I'd rather you do. I'd like to see you chart a path, whether it's healthcare administration or maybe it's a physician's assistant or a nurse or something else, watch where you can get qualified cheaper and faster without the debt. Okay. Or if it's healthcare administration, I get in, can I work

my way to a six figure job and with my wife working maybe part-time, full-time, whatever. And then could we over a five to seven year period, save up the money for med school? Gotcha. Is your wife working full-time right now? Yeah, she's currently working full-time. How old are you? 24. Yeah.

Oh, man. So I got to tell you, I was sitting there going, I don't know how he's feeling about that plan, but now at 24, I want you to go with me here for a second, Paul. If you do what we just said how old do you think you are where you saved up the money to cash flow med school um how many years i mean it would take forever would it i mean george help me and the thing is like it's competitive well first off it's

competitive to get into it but then then all my schooling and stuff, I would have to repeat a bunch of stuff to even reapply to get back in in the future. And I think that would be especially with wanting to have kids. Well, you got in once, Paul. Right. And Paul, we're talking about doing the thing that, but listen, there's no other way except for the debt. And I don't think that's worth it.

But I do think it's worth you saving up the money. George, based on his income, their income. Yeah, what's your household income? We're $66,000 together right now. And then we have no other debt other than the loans. We have a mortgage on our house that we have, and we own both our vehicles. Okay, so you have $50,000 in debt. You're making $66,000

household. But we need to get his income up. Yeah. Is that with you just in school and not working? No, that's with me working full-time now because I just went back into basically an entry-level medical job. Yeah, but again, entry-level. So if we get that income up, combined income up to, let's say, $90,000 to $100,000, George, I just want to map it out for him. It changes the numbers to where you could put away $30,000 a year, and that's right now. Over the course of time, you're going to start making more, you and your wife combined, and so that allows you to put $40,000 the next year, maybe $50,000. And all of a sudden, you're like, five years, we can cash flow the rest of med school.

That's not forever. The point is you're 29, 30 years of age, going to med school. And by the way, you you got no debt right and so you and you taking a sixty thousand dollar job for three years because you have to and but then coming out of that making three hundred thousand uh my quick math has got you at 33 34 years of age making 300 grand being a doctor and oh by the way zero debt if i were to talk to the average 24-year-old on the street with a camera crew in George, and I said, are you willing to wait 10 years to do what it takes for 10 years from now

to be making $300,000, what do you think they'd say? Absolutely. Well, what's your answer? Absolutely. I think it ought to say abso-freaking-lutely. I think I'd put a freaking in there. And, Paul, we talk to those people who come out of med school with 200 grand i've got family members who have 370 grand in medical school debt it's not a fun life yeah but 34 an md no debt 34 md debt free

that's your new t-shirt oh i like that. I mean, 34. Now, listen, I know that what we're saying takes incredible patience. And I just want to point out to you, Paul, that it took me nine years to get to this role at Ramsey Solutions. And he's not even a doctor. I'm not a doctor. Right. It's going to take time, but it's going to be worth it. Nine years. And I did it because I stayed the course. And it was absolutely worth every second of the wait in the sense of I was doing something and waiting for the arrival.

And I just really want you to take that path. I think you're going to be so happy, so fulfilled, and so wealthy. Yikes. They're not telling you this anywhere else. This is The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show rolls on from our World Headquarters. George always likes when I point out

this is our Worldwide Headquarters. International. It is. We do have a lot of international fans, which is really fun. We have people travel in from all around the world to come see us in the lobby. And so here we are. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. 888-825-5225.

Let's go to New Orleans, or as they like to say, Nolans. Thank you. Have you heard that before? I've heard it. Not quite like that. Not that bad. That's what we like to do. All right, Chris, how can we help?

Hey, guys. I appreciate you taking my call. I need some advice. All right. We, how can we help? Hey, guys. I appreciate you taking my call. I need some advice. All right. We have plenty of that. I don't know how good it is, but, boy, we have plenty of it. I'll give you a short back story. A couple of years ago, my wife and I started listening to you guys

and getting angry at our debt, and student loan payments were coming around, and we buckled down, paid off $119,000 of student loans, and super excited about that. Had our eyes on the truck and the boat, and there, an unexpected passing of a, of a very close family member who we were lucky enough to, um, to be left, um, a hundred and $50,000 in cash along with $250,000 of mortgage. So that happened a few months ago and, um, the dust is kind of settling there. And right now we have $250,000 in cash with $240,000 mortgage and $19,000 in a truck and a boat, and then $130,000 mortgage on the house that we're currently in. Our vision is to definitely to be in the house that we inherited. The question is, everything inside of us wants to pay off the house, move in the house,

but, you know, I don't know if that's the right way to do it. We still have the vehicles. We still have the other house we'd like to keep. I'd like to hear your opinion on that. So you want to keep both houses, move into the inherited one, and keep the one you're in right now as a rental? Correct. Okay.

Well, there's a method to the madness here So the person that passed away Gifted you the house And along with that the mortgage Correct Okay and there was also $150,000 in cash What happened to the $150,000 in cash? We still have it

You added to it To get to the $250,000 That's part of the $250,000, correct. Okay, got it. So what would be the problem with taking the $250,000 cash, paying off the truck and the boat today, and paying off your own personal mortgage today, and still having a pile of money left over to throw at the inherited mortgage and move into that one? Well, the mortgage is $240,000.

Okay, it wouldn't knock it out completely right i'm all i'm all ears so you're paying two mortgages right now anyways right that's right so you're going to free up if you do it my way you're going to free up a truck payment a boat payment and your primary mortgage payment okay so you're saying pay off the one that we would use as a rental? Yes. And then apply whatever's left over towards the 240 in the house that we use as our primary residence? That's going to free up the most payments the fastest. That would leave you with one mortgage to pay, no debt, with an emergency fund. So now you have no payments in the world except for that inherited mortgage, and you're going to attack that one to pay it off early.

That doesn't make a difference. The inherited mortgage is significantly higher than the current one. I mean, you could pay off the inherited mortgage, but you still have a truck payment, a boat payment, and right now those truck and boat payments would fall into Baby Step 2, and the mortgages would fall into Baby Step 6. And so the order would be pay off the truck and boat first and then have the emergency fund, then whatever money is left over, you can attack the mortgages with. Perfect. Okay.

So you can do it either way. There's not a huge difference here, but I don't love the idea of having two mortgages. And so I want to knock one out as soon as possible, but I think you need to focus on consumer debt and have the emergency fund before you make any other moves. That's what I needed. We were kind of aiming towards one of the mortgages. Well, not only will you, you won't have your current mortgage payment on the primary, but you're also going to rent it out, right? Correct. So you're going to go from losing $1,500 to hopefully making $2,000. So you're going to have a whole lot more money to throw at this mortgage. Your cash flow is so much better, and you've gotten rid of those payments on these depreciating assets.

The boat and the truck. There's a lot going on, and it's easy for us to lose that clarity, but that makes sense and I appreciate it. I appreciate it a lot. Either way, you're going to be okay. The key is I want to get out of debt as fast as possible and stay out of debt. And if that payment on that inherited house is too much for you guys, you can knock that out first if that mortgage is too much of a burden. But it worries me that you're right now paying both anyways. You're somehow making that work. Yeah, yeah. We're blessed with a good income. We're able to use for good so far. And yeah, we're looking to get rid of both of them as fast as we possibly can. Awesome. I think you guys will do that in no time. What a cool gift.

Yeah, yeah. And then the paid-for boat, that boat probably is a little bit more enjoyable now. It just drives a little different, a little less shaky on the waters. A little less shaky. Is our boat shaky on the water? I think so. What do you call it? I don't know. That's why I asked you. I don't know. Let's go to John in Chicago. John, how can we help? Hey, I'm just going to get to the point. I'm able to fund either an HSA fully or a Roth IRA fully. I didn't know if it's best to do one or the other or which one to fund first. Well, both are great. Are you talking about your baby step four, 15%?

Yes. Okay. So when you're investing 15%, what is your current order? Do you have a 401k or is it just a Roth IRA? Well, my work is a pension, so they automatically take out like four and a half percent and it's very minute. Is that out of your money? That's not money they're giving you. No, my money. Okay. So we would count that at half because of how poorly the pension performs. So let's call that 2%. And so you still need to go invest 13% elsewhere. Right. And so I would fully fund a Roth IRA and then move on to any traditional accounts, and then the HSA would be outside of the 15%.

Okay. That's kind of above and beyond. Yeah, I'm probably going a little overkill with my math figures here in front of me, but I just didn't know if it'd be best to do an HSA first or a Roth. Well, it's great to fund the HSA if you're going to use it, and it's a great investment tool later on down the road to max out. But right now, the Roth should be your focus because the Roth in retirement, you can use tax-free for anything. The HSA, you're only going to be able to use that

tax-free if it's for medical expenses until you're 65 to when it kind of turns into a traditional 401k in a sense to where you'll be taxed on that income if you use it for other things. So I think the Roth IRA is a better bet, but I love the HSA, underutilized investment tool. And so outside of the 15%, I'm maxing that out. Okay. I hope that helps. Yeah, thanks, John. Appreciate the call.

Got to love that. Straightforward. Yeah, we've got an HSA here at Ramsey. If you have a high deductible health plan, there's an HSA. You've got to love that. Straightforward. Yeah. We've got an HSA here at Ramsey. If you have a high deductible health plan, there's an HSA attached to that, a health savings account. Do you use yours now with baby? Oh, yeah. More than I ever thought.

Yeah. So we're in a situation where it's not the best idea to invest in that. It is the best idea to use it. Exactly. And what Dave does- Because we got, what, two surgeries last year with the boys? Oh, yeah. That's right.

With football stuff. it's crazy. Yeah, it adds up, folks. Man, football, who knew? I know, right? Because I think, well, these are young, healthy boys. And then I didn't think about, oh, that broken leg. I got to get you out to a game and let you just stand on the sidelines. I was part of the chain gang once.

You know what that is? I have no idea what that is. It's the guys who hold the first down markers, you know, and they move up and side the sideline. The orange things that stick out. You might as well be speaking Yiddish to me right now. You really don't know. I've never been to a high school football game. So anyway, here's the point. The point is I'm standing on the sideline volunteering.

They ask for the dads to volunteer and you're standing there and you realize these are young men. You forget that they're big and they're slamming their bodies into each other. It's violent, George. For our entertainment. Yeah. Let me remind you.

Oh, boy. It's like Spartacus. Don't go woke on me. It's like Gladiator. It's football. It's America. All right? Yes, it is a form of being a gladiator.

Is it safe? No. It's not. Do we watch it? Yes. Absolutely. Well, take me to a game. I'd love to see Friday Night Lights, Coleman edition.

I'll tell you what. I'll get you a pretzel. I can't eat that. This is the Randy Show. Take care.