The Ramsey Show - App - Are You Finally Ready To Get Your Crap Together?

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We want to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Alongside the peculiar but professional George Campbell, I am Ken Coleman. Going to be taking you through the show today. You ready to go, pal? That was an accurate description. I appreciate that.

You know me well. Well, I got to say, I do love the shacket today. You got your fall shacket on. Thank you. I was just up at the Money in Marriage getaway event, and I see a lot of people in the lobby are playing hooky right now just to see the Ken Coleman on the Ramsey show. So we appreciate them being here. Whatever you say, George.

But you are looking sharp, and you're ready to take the lead on our budget and debt calls. I'll take the lead on our budget and debt calls. I'll take the lead on income calls. So we want you to make that money work for you. Let's get to Liz who starts us off at Charlotte, North Carolina. Liz, how can we help today? Hey, thanks for taking my call. So my husband and I were having a conversation about our finances, and he thinks that we have too much house, basically, and thinks that even though we don't have any debt, we should sell our house, use the profit, and buy something really cheap. And he was thinking really cheap, like a $3,000 trailer he saw on Facebook Marketplace so that we can just live mortgage-free. I don't really want to do that and wanted to get some input. Is your husband nearby?

No, he's not right now. Oh, I was going to put him on the phone for a moment and, as a man who's been married 26 years and counting, tell him that he's lost his ever-loving mind. What happened that made him go, we live in extravagance, do we need to go camping for a while to fix this? That's a big jump. Yeah, I mean, so right now we're at a pretty good place where we're bringing, I think, bringing in $7,000 a month to take home together. And what's your mortgage payment?

Our mortgage is $1,500 a month. We have $220,000 left on the unpaid principal. So you don't have too much house. Are you saying square footage-wise you just have too much room? Because the payment is not the issue. No. It's a 1,400-square-foot house. It's not extravagant in any way. Is he scared of something? I think it's hard for him to kind of keep just going with the plan

and those fast things that get us to pay stuff off quickly. What is the plan? Are you guys trying to pay off other debt? No, we don't have any debt. So where's all of your money going that he feels so stressed? I don't know. Well, it's a good question. We have about $2,000 a month in bills, $2,000 a month in spending, and then we could be saving about $1,500 probably. I'm going to come back to the question that george and i've both asked we've asked it different ways because i think it's something you need to get the answer to as i don't know we can help you i think you need to get the answer to what is driving this

act of desperation this feels desperate to me george am i wrong he's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist but like there's a lot of angst in this decision. Yes. Yes. And that's what Mike, I was waiting for you to go, well, our mortgage is $4,000 a month. And I go, okay, I get the stress behind it, or we're in crippling debt and it's going to help us get out. There's no reason if you move into the trailer, what's it going to do for you? Just have mortgage free. So we both work a good amount. And I think the hope would be that I could stay home, that we would have more time at home as a family, and it's just been really busy. So maybe there's stress coming from that. Yeah, but you understand what I'm saying, that I really think you need to have some walk time.

Let's hold hands and walk somewhere. Let's go to a dinner and just say, hey, it's okay, whatever the answer is, but can you tell me what's really behind this? I think you got to get an, you don't know, and I'm not guilting you on that. I'm just saying, I think you need to know. Because to that point, once you get to the bottom of what's really going on behind this, now we can begin to address what our viable options are. I just don't think it's viable. Do you think it's viable to move to the trailer? I can usually go with the flow, but it's viable. Do you think it's viable to move to the trailer? I can usually go with the flow, but it's not something I want to do.

That's not your picture of, I want to stay at home and live in a $3,000 trailer and raise this child. Yeah, that's not go with the flow. You're going to resent him. Inside of two years, you'll resent him for that, won't you? Tell the truth. Yeah, that's probably true. It's not probably true. It's completely true. You're a very nice woman. My gosh, you're nice. So if the goal is, I want to stay at home, let's then figure out, okay, how do we make this happen sustainably? Does he need to get his income up in order to still cover all the bills if you lose your income? Let's figure that part out before we go napalm and go, we got to live in a trailer to make this all happen. Okay. How much do you bring home a month?

I'm about $2,900 a month. He's about $4,000 or more, depending on overtime. I think George makes a really good point there. I think it'd be worth a conversation to see what overtime, let's not rush this, because he sounds like a guy who's just he wants to solve everything tomorrow and by the way i i i get that i got a little bit of that in me like i always want to solve everything super fast and that ends up stressing my wife out instead of being helpful she's like you're stressing me out you know i get that so i feel him a little bit there but i just wonder george uh if the conversation i want to know what you think about this i i think they need to have a conversation about okay over time what would need to be true for us to get twenty nine hundred dollars more take home on his side of the

aisle and you just referenced that that to me is a more healthy conversation than selling this out and moving to a trailer do you agree with that that? Yes. And do the tactical piece, do a sample budget just off of his income and go, okay, we can cover the bills. We can invest. We might slow down the house payoff process. Are we willing to make that compromise? Because the truth is you probably don't need to spend two grand. We're probably living pretty comfortably. And so he doesn't want to change his lifestyle, but he wants to uproot the entire family and move into a trailer. And so I'd rather see different sacrifices to make this dream come true. And you might find doing the budget, we can do this today.

Or you might find he needs to make $1,000 more a month for us to hit our goals. Great. Now we have a very clear career goal that Ken can help with. You see the difference there? Yeah. Yeah. That is a big difference. But again, I don't think, Liz, that any of this conversation will register until you both have an honest conversation and he feels safe and he finally burps out, if you will, why he's really scared. Do you know what I mean? He's got to get that out of his system.

And you've got to hear it, not belittle it. You've got to be a supportive spouse on that and make him feel seen and heard. And I think that'll calm him down a little bit. And then we begin to talk about, as George just said, other options to alleviate the same issue. Okay. And by the way, this also includes you being honest with him to say, this isn't an option, babe babe i don't want this quality of life i'm i will resent you this is not viable like he needs to hear that yeah you know not yeah i mean if i have to i'll go with the flow let me tell you what most dudes hear when we hear that oh she's in i mean we're idiots on behalf of all men we don't hear what we need to hear sometimes and i'm just being clear i

mean i'll be honest. Maybe George is more in tune with his feminine side. It's not you being a jerk. It's just saying, here's my side. Here's how I'm feeling about this. And he needs to, you know, you both get a vote in this marriage. Yeah. So, you know, just a good conversation.

Let's talk through some options. Help me think through those options. He saw a cheap trailer on Facebook and went, this is the ticket. This is it. It's guy 101. It's a male classically thing. Oh, super quick solve. How about this? He can buy the trailer. He can live in it. You stay in the house. There we go. I don't think that's the kind of relationship advice we want to give. We'll talk about it during the break. We'll be back with more of your calls. This is the Ramsey Slusher.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. George, man, it's getting closer and closer to Christmas. Feels like it's time to be doing a budget if you haven't done one. This is the time we tend to spend the most. We've got to get control of that money. Yeah. So you and the EveryDollar team, Jade, you guys have been doing these free live trainings where you're walking through the EveryDollar app.

Tell us about this. So this is a practical time where we show you, hey, here's what people are feeling about money. Here's the plan to get control of it. Here's how every dollar works. We're going to show you how to create a budget from scratch and give you some encouragement along the way to make it actually stick. Next one is Tuesday, October 29th at 1 Eastern, 12 Central. So think of this as a lunch and learn, if you will, and bring your Tupperware or your Hot Pocket right there to the computer and get trained up. So there you go. You've got nothing to lose.

It's free. Nothing to lose. RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. Again, Tuesday, October 29th at 1 Eastern, 12 Central Time. All right, Jay is going to join us now in Tampa, Florida. Jay, how can we help? Can you guys hear me?

Loud and clear. All right, yeah, so after one, yeah, thanks for taking my call. I'm 24. I'm a social media creator with probably five, five plus million followers. And I'm for one, I'm incredibly blessed and grateful for just even the opportunity to say that. And I'm probably grossing around three hundred four hundred thousand dollars a year right now. But despite this, I'm I still struggle with feeling financially secure. And I know that sounds maybe a little bit silly.

And again, I'm grateful, but it's more about the feeling of not having this fixed income. You know, I don't have the consistency of like a employment job, just a traditional job. And so my biggest question is, how can I create a more stable financial foundation for myself so I can feel just more secure about the future down the line? Because right now I never really know what my next, like, ad revenue paycheck is going to be like with YouTube. Well, what's been your worst month in the last 12 months? Worst month? Worst month? Well, I would say the worst was probably maybe a couple months ago, 10K in a single month. Can you cover all your bills with 10K? Yeah, absolutely. I don't have a lot of

nothing going on, no debt, fortunately. Great. But that just tells you on my worst month, I still have a surplus. So there's a reality to this and fact to this that you don't have to live in this scarcity mindset. But I do think it's wise to diversify. And even at Ramsey Solutions as a business, we talk about how we don't want to be so on one platform that we're so reliant on it that if something were to happen, YouTube changes the algorithm, all of a sudden you're out. And that's why it's good to have brand partnerships, your own product offering. So do you have money coming in outside of just YouTube ad revenue? Do you have sponsors or products? Yeah, I would say probably 60% of my annual income comes from sponsorships. But again, and I'm sorry, it's probably just more the nerves of just running this new operation I've developed

the last couple of years. but it's the concern of not having that next sponsorship come. Cause you know, it's like, I don't have control over that. I do have an agency that represents me, but even a few months ago, I think I went three or four months without a sponsorship. And though the ad revenue was coming in, I have my family also working with me. And so I'm kind of the, you know, the face of the brand and all that online. And so I feel the pressure at times. I get that. I'm going to tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes.

And this has nothing to do with whether or not you're an online content creator or you were a, you owned your own wallpaper business. Okay. So if I'm the sole kind of breadwinner, I would be putting a year's worth of your needs away. So we talked about your worst month, but what's your actual, what are all your bills, everything? I mean, soup to nuts, how much money do you have to have to have some comfortable margin to cover every expense in your life? How much? What's that number? Round figure. I mean, gosh, it's so, because I'm so, I'm so new to, you know, I'm naive and that's probably the biggest thing that I don't understand. Naive people don't know they're naive. So you're a step beyond that at least. No, I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm talking about, I'm talking about your rent or your mortgage your bills that's everything like groceries

gas I'm talking cost of living what is the number that you need every month to be comfortable I would say like probably five thousand okay five thousand I would feel safe okay great and you can adjust this number later but here's my point if I were you what I would be doing is I would put $60,000 into a separate savings account above and beyond the emergency fund and things that we talk about. That's what I would do. And I would put it in the company's account, however you pay yourself. I would put it, we call it retained earnings. I would put it in a savings account and not touch it. And that represents an absolute ground zero. If something crazy happens and YouTube goes out of business or something happens and all of a sudden you start

deteriorating, you lose your sponsorships, you lose your views. Because I'm saying it this way because I want you to mentally walk through like what would have to happen for this thing to just all of a sudden start to go down pretty quickly or tank? But if it did, if you had $60,000 in the bank to pay you the just bare minimums, you would be able to sleep a lot better at night, true or false? Yeah, definitely. And I would do that. I mean, I definitely have somewhere around there put away.

I think, you know, and I guess that's because it's this new industry being a content creator. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, it's just this self-employed job. And so, and I've been looking into different outlets of, you know. But if you had 12 months, Jay, if you had 12 months to pivot to anything else, you would feel a lot better, correct? Yeah, I would say so, yeah. And that's what I would do. George, I don't know if you want to add to your takeaway. Yeah, you already told me you're diversifying, and so I think part

of this is also figuring out how do I own more of the audience? How do I create an email list? How do I develop products to where I'm diversified? We recommend that with mutual funds across four types. We're not doing a single stock, and I recommend you do the same in your business as a content creator. And so find different streams of revenue to where if one goes down, you still have the others to keep you afloat. On top of this kind of peaks and valleys fund that Ken talked about, where if you have a lean month, you have a savings account. You have some retained earnings to fall back on.

And I think it's wise to know that this pony train may not last forever. We may not make 400 grand on YouTube forever. Maybe you make more. Who knows? But I think the more you're putting away in savings and investing investing while also having some balance where you're spending and giving wisely, you're going to then learn, okay, I'm on the bike, I'm pedaling, I'm not about to fall off. And that takes a little bit of time. Yeah. And I think I probably wanted to just more specific technical as I would have to ask is like, I have an LLC. I started that. I've been managing my

finances. I got a CPA who helps me on a quarterly basis and all that. So I've set the basic foundation when it comes to maintaining my finances. What would be like truly, literally the next thing I should do? I don't have a 401k. Should I start initiating, going down that path or- Yeah. I would look into a solo 401k if that's an option for you, depending on how big your team is. If it's just you and a spouse or something like that, you could do a solo 401k.

You can look into a SEP IRA as well. So there's some great options for self-employed folks. And you can get connected to a SmartVestor Pro at RamseySolutions.com. Click on Trusted Services over there and get connected with an investment pro who can go, hey, here's your options as a small business owner of ways you can invest. And that's going to make you feel a lot better when you're putting away 60, 70% of your income and then going, all right, I'm going to learn how to live on the 30. Sure. Yeah. You're doing great, man. Congratulations. Yeah. Absolutely.

That young making that kind of money and asking these questions and uh i i i also agree with you george uh and jay i would make sure you heard what george said you're i think he said about 60 of his revenue is sponsors did i hear that right yes i'd like to see that number i'd like to see that number eventually get more even 50 50 64 the other way products start to split that out yeah so that you know he's got a product in the marketplace that hopefully is self-perpetuating. You lose sponsors, you lose 25% of your income instead of 60%. Yeah, so whatever. He's solving a problem.

To have these kind of results, he's definitely solving some type of problem. So good for you. That's impressive. All right, folks, quick break. We'll be right back with more of The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Always fun when we have some folks standing on the debt-free stage just across the studio from George and I. And it's Vicente and Joanna are joining us. Welcome.

That's right. Thanks for having us. You bet. Where are you guys hailing from? We're from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Grand Rapids, Michigan. All right. Fantastic.

All right. Tell us, how much have you paid off and how long did it take? We paid off $173,500 and that's our house. And we did that in 10 years. All right. Wow. Amazing. That includes the house. You know, if Dave were here, he'd call you weird. Ken's not going to do that. I'm not going to do that because I think I'm looking at you all. You look pretty fantastic. So, but nonetheless, you are definitely unique. Tell us the range of income during the 10-year period. Well, we started at about $85,000, and we're at about $160,000 now.

Oh, wow. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a music teacher and a worship leader at my church. So doubling up. Yep. All right. And what about you, Joanna? I work in health care as an RN. Oh, very nice. Okay, good. Have you seen a nice rise in your pay over the 10 years?

Yes. Good for you. Good for you. It's really her income that explains that doubling up there. Oh, no. Trust me. As much as this saddens me, you're pretty limited in a teacher pay. But thank you for what you do and love that you're also serving as a worship leader, too.

So that keeps you pretty busy. Yeah. Middle school teachers, fifth and eighth grade choir. I've taught band over the years. You do realize you're getting special rewards in heaven for being a middle school teacher, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Wow. Showed us the most awkward phase to serve these kids. That's amazing. What's the house worth? Right now? Yeah. Yeah. 450 450 almost 450 now all right and what's in the nest egg in retirement investment accounts savings all that about 250 amazing so you guys are edging toward that baby steps millionaire status yeah way to go not far knocking on the door a couple years we've followed the steps how old are you guys we're both 34 oh boy george gets

his investment calculator out. Don't make me crunch the numbers. Those are going to be big numbers. Don't make me turn this car around. That's amazing. Yeah. All right. So, my goodness.

So, take us 10 years ago. You guys are in your early 20s. And what makes you decide to follow these steps, as Joanna said? Well, yeah, we got married about 12 years ago and right away after we got married, we took financial peace together. We thought it was really important to do that. Actually, my parents made me and my brothers and sisters take financial peace when we were, I don't know, 17 all the way back to 2007, 2008. And that's kind of how I heard about you guys. Did any of it stick then, or were you just largely irritated by it?

No, I, um, I can't say the same for others, but, uh, uh, it definitely stuck with me. Yeah. I was really excited about it. Yeah. And what was the why behind all of this? That's a long time to go. We're going to make some sacrifices and compromises to hit this goal. Just, uh, I don't know, just a life of freedom, not bogged down by debt and just like paycheck to paycheck living and just the stress of that.

We just didn't want that for us. We didn't want that for our kids. Additionally, like her parents and my parents just taught us well. There's been kind of a legacy handed down. Again, like I said, my parents just taught us well there's been kind of a legacy handed down again again like i said my parents made me take a financial piece when i was probably 17 or 18 i think and um yeah really just that's what we wanted was to have a life that was uh in freedom now of the 173 000 was it just the house or did you have other debt when you guys got married?

The $173,000 is all the house. So you guys come into marriage and the only debt you have is the house. Right. Oh, that's kind of unique as well. It gives you a leg up. You don't have to spend years trying to kind of pay for the past. You're building for the future from day one. Yeah.

So what were some of the things that you guys did? Because you took, I mean, again, no shame, no shade. But over 10 years, what did that look like? What were just a few years is long. And so it's kind of about avoiding all debt. I mean, we could have gotten into credit cards. It was tempting sometimes to want to buy a much nicer car. We've probably had, I don't know, five or six cars over 10 years and all of them have been well under 10 grand. And so it's really just about those disciplines. We budget every month. We talk about it every month. Do you have any regrets from the sacrifices you made or do you go, no, we would do it all over again? No regrets. No, we do it all over again. It's worth

it. The baby steps that we have followed and the principles that you teach, first of all, we've followed them step by step in order. So we've done them, and we've done them in order, and they've never failed us. So we've known that's the plan that we wanted to, even though people out there do different things, this is what we wanted to do. And from the very beginning, we were together and dreaming about our future. Yeah. Well, avoiding lifestyle creep is a superpower in today's world. And you guys

did that for a decade. That's incredible. Joanna, what would you say is the key to this journey to get out of debt? No matter what the debt is or how long it takes, what do you think is the key? Patience, perseverance, and not getting distracted. Not looking around at how other people are living or what they're doing. Just keeping the focus. That's so interesting. There's unity there. And it sounds like you guys have a better marriage because of it.

Yeah. Are there things you learned just communicating along the way about money that made your marriage better overall? Yeah. I mean, we've had to do that just since the very beginning and, and, and it wasn't all always just easy, but, um, we were able to come to, you know, make some, I don't know about compromises, but you know, we were just able to talk and dream together about what we wanted our life to look like. Yeah. My favorite is dreaming together. And now that the debt's paid off, it's like this opportunity. Yeah, real quick, is there an exciting dream you guys are knocking around,

talking about now that you're completely debt-free? I don't know. Just for years, we've just always asked, you know, what can we do? How can we give back? My parents paid for my college education, so I kind of see that as, you know, how can I pay for my kids? They're here. We'll see them in a little bit. How can we

save for our own kids' education and give to grandkids and maybe even great-grandkids kind of keep that legacy going that our families and our parents have started? It didn't start with us, but we want to be the people who continue that toward the other generations.

Feels like they're keeping the family tree in this case, not changing it, but keeping the family tree going. Leading with that generosity. It's a great legacy. What about a spending goal? You're going to upgrade the car? Come on, Vicente, do something nice for the wife. More traveling, like this trip that we're taking right now and being able to stop on places on our way

down here. There we go. And we're stopping on some more places on our way up. That's fun. We're planning on some more big vacations. That's fun. We drove here in 2013, I think, Honda Odyssey. So let's upgrade her car.

Be careful. That thing will last 30 years. You're not kidding. You got to upgrade eventually. We're going to upgrade on the Odyssey. All right. You talked about your kids and what you want to do for them. Let's bring them up.

Let's meet them real quick. Tell us their names and how old. Come on. Aria. She's nine years old. Uh-huh. And Peter, who is seven years old. Okay.

All right. Come over here by me. Now, have they been practicing? Have you heard them in the house screaming? Yeah. We have been practicing. I did a free scream on the way here and everything. Yes.

All right. Well, here we go. We've got Vicente and Joanna, Aria and Peter from Grand Rapids, Michigan. They paid off $173,000 over 10 years. That includes the house, making $85,000 to $160,000. What an awesome family. They've been practicing. I give it to you now.

Take it away. Let's hear your debt-free scream. Here go guys ready three two one we're dead free well done kids got big smiles on their faces i love to see the branches continue on this amazing family tree that's inspiring don't you have a sense that actually young Aria and Peter really do know what has just happened? I got a sense that they do. That they get it. They had a front row seat. What a legacy. They were on the journey the whole time with them.

I love that. So fun. That's why we do it right there, folks. That is a family that is on their way to being Baby Steps Millionaires in not too long from here. And we've got a teacher and a nurse and they're doing this thing a teacher and a nurse going to be multi-millionaires when it's all said and done wow the american dream folks in case you're wondering i don't care what the networks tell

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Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch. Give them a call at 800-356-4282. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in today is 888-825-5225. Chattanooga, Tennessee is where Mark joins us. Mark, how can we help?

Yes, thank you for taking my call. We are currently in debt about $16,500. Half of that is on credit cards. The other half is medical, and then we borrowed some money from family to fix the used vehicle after we drained our savings to also put that money into our vehicle. I'm 40. I've got a four, a two, and a three-year-old girls. Married six years, and I am tired of

existing, and I want to thrive financially. I want to teach them how to do that as well. Love it. You've had enough. You're sick and tired of being sick and tired. Yeah, I'm sick and tired. I was raised this way of this is life, and this is how it is, but I don't believe that anymore, and just trying to get out of that has been a struggle. Well, I got to tell you, I admire you and you've come to the right place. Dr. Campbell is in today. We are in. Is your wife on board with this? Does she feel the same way? Have you shared this with her? Yes. Yes. Yes, she does feel the same way. I'm calling away from her because I don't have to be around the kids right now, all screaming and playing. Yes, we are both on the same page. Okay. to own a home. We're renting. We want to get out of this lifestyle and change. What's the game plan? How much do you make and how long is

it going to take to pay off the debt at your current rate? So net pay with both of us combined is roughly around $64,000. Let's see. With our debt being $16,500, we had a plan on being debt-free by the end of this year, but then our vehicle, which was paid off, broke down, and we ended up spending about $10,000 on that. $10,000 to fix a car? Well, transmissions are incredibly expensive,

and just while we were in there, we had to fix those things up. What's the car worth now? Probably about $7,500, but it's paid for, so... $7,500? Now they can drive the wheels off. Well, I was going to say, I feel like you should have just spent $10,000 and bought a different car at that point. Yeah, but again, I feel like we're just in a position where I can't afford

that monthly payment and also mechanical issues if they were to pop up. But you borrowed the money from family, and that's woven into the $16,500? So we used about $7,500 out of our savings, and we used the $3,000 from in-laws to pay for everything because it was a very quick, this happened, we've got to get it fixed right away. Okay. So we've, yeah. So that's- You're bringing home $5,300 a month. How much of that are you able to throw at the debt? Well, on a good month, we can throw about $500 to $700. But here lately, it feels like that money's been going towards sick kids and clothes and everything else that we're needing. And just

trying to get a better hold on it. I just can't seem to get a foothold on what to do and how to do. Feels like we need a little more money right now, maybe just to get stabilized. We need some more income, correct? We do. And I have the opportunity to where I can work a lot of overtime. And I do struggle with that because I have small kids. I want to be there for them. I don't want to raise them the way I was raised where I feel like I didn't have a relationship, but I also have a responsibility. You have a responsibility.

And I would take all the overtime in the world right now because they're really young. So they have no concept of time and you're not going to be in anywhere, anywhere near this deadbeat dad that you're scared of being or this detached dad. In fact, the best thing you can do as a dad right now is work all those overtime hours, knock all this debt out, get some margin, and then you can downshift. You've got to set yourself free of that right now. In fact, that's the best thing you can do.

I'm thrilled right now, to be honest with you, that I'm talking to a guy who can get overtime. That's actually great news for you. You don't have to go out and find a second job. You just go bust it right now, and George can tell you how to use that money. He'll get you out of this thing actually pretty quick. Yeah, Ken's talking about margin here, and there's two ways to get it. You got to spend less or make more, and I think both are in order. Because right now, you're telling me that your expenses are about $4,500 a month just to cover the main bills. So I would be on an every dollar budget with your wife going through every single line item going, can we do better here? Let's reshop the insurance. Let's cut the eating out. Let's cut the subscription. Let's sacrifice over

here. That's going to free up $700. Now we can go make an extra $700. Well, that's $1,400 alone on top of the $500. That's two grand a month. You hear that, Mark? I do. That means seven or eight months, you're completely debt-free. And so that's where the math should inspire you going, what is the margin we need to do this in seven months? I'd rather you be gone for seven months and the kids go, oh, where's dad? He's working overtime for seven months. They won't even know what happened, like Ken mentioned. Yeah. This is the time to do it. You wouldn't want to do this if they were in the middle of sports and all kinds of extracurriculars. So just trying to drive that point home that your kids aren't going

to resent you for this, not even going to remember it. What would the overtime do for your take-home pay every month? I mean, gosh, I could probably, I mean, depending on the call-outs, I could make an extra $800 a month, maybe more. Bingo. There we go. Woo, now we're talking, Mark. On top of the $700 you can already throw, and then think about if you were doing an every-dollar budget,

how much more could we find in our budget? Because right now you're talking $1,500 extra bucks. He said on a good month, George, that they had about $500 to $700. Is that right? Yeah, that's about right. Okay. Let's go with a low number. Yeah. Even conservatively, we're talking $1,300. Then we find an extra few hundred bucks in the budget. I think you can do this in less than a year. I agree. And I think it's going to happen faster as you get some momentum.

How would that feel, Mark? No, that feels great. I think it was just that lagging, that gnawing guilt feeling, needing to hear from somebody else that it's okay to do what needs to be done. Yeah, because you know what you're sick of? You started the phone call telling us you're sick of being stuck in neutral. Yeah. the phone call telling us you're sick of being stuck in neutral yeah and it's hard to be a joyful present dad and husband when you know these bills are looming you know that you're in this situation

yeah so i'd rather a short-term sacrifice so that the next 20 years of their life with you as the dad and you as the husband are going to be vastly different than the last six yeah by the way what would overtime look like is that all mond Monday through Friday, just longer hours? No, I could do Monday through Friday weekends. Sundays are double time. Yeah, you know what I'm doing? If it's not already taken, yeah. I'm getting as many hours as possible,

explaining to the kiddos what they can't understand. If they can't understand it, you don't have to explain it. They don't have a clue. And then carving out little special moments once a week, twice a week, where you're doing something really fun with the kids. And what that will do is that will just kind of re-inject into your heart that relationship juice that you need for this season where you're getting after it. Do you know what I mean? It'll just give you that little extra, little extra, okay, my heart's full. You know what I'm saying? And, and, and that's huge,

you know, doing something special with them. Uh, you know, that, that to me, I had to do that for a season when I was doing my own radio show, running my own company, trying to get this thing off the ground. I was doing it on Saturdays and I was away from the kids and it hurt and it wasn't fun. Um, but I found ways, little pockets during the week, to get that special time with them, and it just kept me going. They were little. They had no clue, you know? Right.

So give yourself a break. That's what I need to do. And I'm going to gift you one year of every dollar premium, Mark, so you and your wife can sit down, make that every dollar budget, income minus expenses, go through and do a little budget audit and go okay here's what's actually happening in our finances where can we do better where can we cut right now just for a season and we'll upgrade our lifestyle later and get all the goodies back in but right now i'm looking at you know seven eight nine ten months of some sacrifice for the next seven eight nine ten years of freedom

i think it's worth it. Ooh, that's well said. Did you catch that, Mark? That right there, that's what you called to hear. That exchange right there, the way George laid that out, that's your mindset. That's a really easy trade-off, isn't it? It is, and that's what I need to do here.

All right. That's the only way. I wish there was a shortcut. This is the only way I found that actually works. But most people prefer to live in mediocrity for their whole life, be in debt their whole life, manage the payments until they retire broke one day. And their kids don't see a great marriage. They don't see a great dad.

All they feel is distress coming off a mom and dad trying to cover the bills. Yeah, I agree. I agree. An old man once said, don't sacrifice the future on the altar of the immediate. And in this case, you can guilt yourself into going, I'm not going to go work overtime and get out of debt because I want to be around my kids. Well, that's going to affect the future as George just laid out. So really good call, Mark. Thanks for being vulnerable and sharing with us. You're a good man. I think you helped a lot of other people out there. I think so. And you're a good dad, Mark. You're a good dad. Bad dads don't ask these questions.

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1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money win in your relationships win in your work i'm ken coleman george camel is joining me it's 888-825-5225 that's the number to jump in we're here to coach you up today you got some some professional work related questions you want to move up so you can make more money? We'll take those calls. I'd love to help. And then if you just got your standard money questions,

George is always equipped to take you through what you need to do. Brandon is going to start us off in Kansas City. Brandon, how can we help? Hey, good afternoon. Hey, I've got a question. I've spent most of my life really, really poor, largely due to I graduated with a software engineering degree at the time that WorldCom crashed. And I paid my debt off and have lived with little to no debt most of my life. And finally, in just the last few years, I've started making some pretty good money, real good money.

And no other real debt, but I went and bought some fancy cars. And now I've been listening to you all for a couple of years, and I decided to sell my 2024 Corvette off. And I'm not going to lie. I'm missing the payment. I'm missing the car. I'm missing the payment. And at what point does building wealth really start to take over that I'm going to enjoy this versus feeling rich? At what point can I maybe enjoy both? I mean,

it's just kind of a shell shock to me to go from nothing to having something. And now I'm driving a $6,000 car because I sold my $90,000 Corvette. And it's just kind of a shocker. Well, let me go back for a second because I'm just curious. Do you really miss your payments? I get you. I'm missing the 2024. But do you really miss that payment? Like, that's real. That's a real statement in your mind. Well, it's more like, you know, I made that payment and I was saving money and I had no trouble saving money with it. So it wasn't like I minded it so much.

You don't miss shelling out that much money every month, though. Oh, no. shelling out that much money every month though oh no and and the real what listening to listening to y'all and i'll be honest with you what what ended up being the nail in the coffin is when they jacked my my insurance over six hundred dollars a month and i went whoa yeah wait a minute i mean it's the cost to replace that car and so that's an expensive car to replace sure so my question is why the slingshot giant pendulum swing to either I drive a $100,000 car worth of payment or I drive a beater $6,000 car? Why no middle ground where you go, all right, if I save two grand a month, in a year I'll have 24 grand to spend on a used Corvette? And we're going to do that, and that's what I'm working on right now.

So, I mean, I'm sitting back and building. So I own a company. So what my, I'm in the baby steps, if you want to call it, as to I need a very large emergency fund, and I'm working on funding it. For the business or for your personal life? Let's separate the two. Both. Okay.

Well, personal, I don't need much at all. I don't need much there. What kind of business? I need a very large. I own a heating, air, electrical need much at all. I don't need much there. What kind of business? I need a very large. I own a heating, air, electrical, and plumbing company. We have about $600,000 a year in overhead, so I'm trying to build a safety net up in that $300,000 range. How long have you had that company?

About five years. What's your growth rate right now? I've stalled it for the last couple years because i've not been hiring because i keep investing in the company um so what are you investing in when you say investing the company i've kept this debt free so i mean i've got eight vehicles i need to grow three more um you know and i've kept it all on the debt free side good for But each van takes $30,000 to $50,000 to set them each up. So that's kind of where I'm at. I love this, Brandon. Here's why I'm asking. You're only five years into this. You're being super smart right now by cash flow in this. My guess is in the not-too-distant future, and I want to go down this line here for george uh as well in the not too distant future

you are going to now be able to hire and my guess is your profit margin is going to take a really nice bump at some point correct yes very nice my friend the reason i'm going through this is because i'm the wall street journal george and brandon out. I want to say last week or within the last 10 days and in the front of the cover of the wall street journal, uh, and I'm going to get the headline wrong, but I'll paraphrase. It was like the new millionaire class. And it was talking about guys like you, Brandon, that are trades that are owning electrician firms or plumbing. And you got HVAC plumbing.

You got the whole nine yards there. I'm just telling you, you hold the line, you're going to be paying cash for a $100,000 Corvette in the not-too-distant future by just giving yourself dividend payments. You know that's true, don't you? Oh, I do. I do. Hang on. I'm just kind of going through that withdrawal, and I'm like,

how long does it take to get that withdrawal? I mean, I'm not going to lie, when you've been poor your whole life, and all of a sudden you get to play like you're rich for a little while, it's fun. I mean, it's fun. Of course. Nobody disputes that. George wrote a whole book about that. Absolutely. But, you know, driving the brand new car with the new leather smell and then going to your $6,000 beater, you're like, oh, of course you're going to miss that. And you'll get back there soon, and the parameter is simple. Make sure that you pay cash for your cars and that the total value of all the vehicles in your personal world add up to no more than half of your annual income. So what is your annual household income today? Oh, about, it varies

a little bit. It's somewhere around 20% of my business. So 180 to 240,000. That's amazing. So let's call it 200K. So the total value of all your vehicles need to add up to no more than 100K. Got it? So you said you have a wife? No, no, I'm single. Okay, you said we earlier, so I wasn't sure. You're single? Yeah, I've got my son.

So whenever we, I was probably thinking about taking care of him. So if you had a $90,000 car, we got no problem with that with your world, but we got to pay cash for it. And I think the discipline of going, all right, how do I save up $90,000? If that's what you want to do, and by the way, we don't recommend buying a brand new car until you're a Baby Steps millionaire. You may be. Have you done the numbers on this? My net worth is all in the business. Basically, I got a few other small investments, but I'm around six to seven hundred thousand. Amazing. So you're what we call a Henry, high earner, not rich yet. And you're going to be

if you keep this going, you don't inflate your lifestyle too much. I see no reason why you couldn't save five grand a month out of your personal take-home pay and have 60 grand to buy a great car a year from now. Very good. I just started saving eight grand. There we go. I'm just two months into it. Yeah. You've got that itch to go, man, I missed that car, and I don't want to wait another eight or 10 or 12 months to save up for it. But building anything takes time.

Anything meaningful takes time. The trivial is how you shortcut it. And that's what you did with the payments. You're going to get back to it in a way that doesn't hurt your financial life. I got a question for George. Hang on the line here, Brandon. I got a question for George. I'm going to put it to him here.

I think he needs to get rid of the $6,000 car. I'd like to see him jump up a little bit. It sounds like he's got savings. Do you have some savings outside of the business to upgrade car? Well, I'm going to very quickly. I mean, I blew everything getting rid of it. So I didn't get rid of one car, so you guys know. I got rid of three.

I had two big trucks that had loans, and then I got rid of them. So I blew about $40,000 paying all these off. That's part of the reason why I'm kind of having this withdrawal. I took $40,000 that I'd saved up cash and took losses on all these vehicles when I'm going to be debt-free. And, you know, so I'm kind of going through that withdrawal. My nice trucks are gone, and my savings account went to squelch, you know. Now I'm going to build it back really quick. Oh, you will.

George, I just think maybe, I don't know, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, if you've got, you said you could save eight grand a month. I mean, if you're talking a 20 grand car in the meantime. Get something that he likes for 20 to hold him over. I like this plan. And just upgrade incrementally as you have the cash and keep living on less than you make. Keep this business crushing.

You'll be there, man. But I'm not missing the debt payments. We'll get you that nice car smell in no time. And until then, you can get those new car smell trees. A good $200 detail will change your life on any car. It'll make you feel like it's brand new. So you kind of fake yourself out. Exactly. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you,

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman, 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. Today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. Private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally Mae, but they can hurt you just the same. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. So if you're in that situation, stop feeling the pain of the defaulted private student loan debt

and go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. This program may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Steve in Louisiana. I'm a flight nurse and work five hours away from home. Love my job and the schedule of five days on and 10 days off. It allows me more time with my family than a regular nursing job. I'm the sole provider for our family, and while my job provides excellent pay and experience, recent corporate changes have made this job much less enjoyable, so I've been exploring my options. If I stay at my current job for two years, I could pay off my remaining $50,000 in student loan debt. The other option involves taking a job closer to home at $20,000 less per year.

This option aligns better with my career goals because of better growth opportunities. I'm torn between the financial benefits of sticking with my current position for a quicker debt payoff and the potential career advancement offered by a job closer to home. What should I do? This has got Ken Coleman written all over it. Well, I'm going to answer it with what I would do. If it were me, I would take the option that gives me the better future. Because the $20,000 broken up over 12 months, it's just not that much. And some of you may be going, Ken, are you nuts? I think Dave would even probably disagree with me on this one. But I am a guy that when it comes to professional future, I'm always going to take the opportunity that gets me on the right ladder to go where I want to go. And I think that he can still buckle down and pay this debt off. I also think that because he's a nurse, that he could probably get more hours.

And I don't think it's necessarily, he's looking at just a $20,000 hit. Now, that's what I would do. But if he feels like he can get back into this second option two years from now, then maybe you hustle it and you knock it out. But I just am going to choose the long-term. What's the best long-term play? So if I'm going to take a $20,000 hit and I'm still trying to pay off $50,000, what I'm going to do, I'm going to first thing I'm going to go is, how can I make extra money as a nurse outside of this new opportunity to equal the $20,000? If I can't do that, I'm going to do everything to adjust my lifestyle by $20,000 and make up the difference in my expenses. Does that

make sense? Oh, absolutely. I was going to say the same thing. I actually like the idea of him getting his life back by being closer to home, not five hours away. Well, that's another option. He didn't seem to be bothered by that, but I'm with you. Well, he said more time with my family, all this, but I do think finding the gap is important. Like you mentioned, how do we find that $1,600 extra a month that we're losing by taking this gig? And if that means a second job, overtime, cutting our lifestyle down so that we stay on track with our debt payoff goal,

that to me is the Goldilocks sweet spot. I agree. And I think that's doable. I think the advice we're giving there is feasible. Yeah, because we're also not assuming, he said there's growth opportunities. What if the next year he makes an extra $10,000 or $20,000? Which is why I'm always going to choose to make sacrifices in my living in order to get on the right ladder for the future. So in this situation, if you have to take a $20,000 hit, you better adjust

your lifestyle to where it's not a hit. Yes. Make it as temporary as possible. Very temporary. And notice that neither one of us said it was okay to press pause on paying off the debt. We didn't say that. So that's the direction I'm going to choose on that one. I love it. Solid. Let's go to Manhattan. The Big Apple, George. You love to frequent it. Rose is on the line. Rose, how can we help? Hi guys. Thank you for taking my call. I am engaged and we have been planning a wedding, which would be about $50,000. We're about $11,000 into paying it. we've been watching your videos and we are ninety five thousand dollars in debt not including the wedding and we're wondering if we should just call the whole thing off um do a small ceremony and really tackle the the 95 yes yes small ceremony so we're

not putting off getting married we're just putting off a very expensive party. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Is it just you two that are paying for the wedding? No family help? They would be helping. I don't know to what degree. I think somewhere between 15 and 20,000. Okay. So you guys are on the hook for the other 35 between the two of you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Rose, I don't know what George thinks about this. I've been married 26 years. We're heading to 27. And the other day, Stacey and I were looking at our wedding album because she's thinking about getting it digital and all that kind of stuff. And what's interesting is, is that the photos that we had the most, you know, emotional connection to as we kind of went back down memory lane it was just the us the wedding

party but mostly it was family and yeah and i i remember sort of kind of you don't remember the flower arrangements no um i i kind of remember some of the friends that were there um that day tends to be a big blur anyway um and and so i guess my point is, is that I just want to appeal to your emotions here to say that if you do a small family wedding and you get great pictures of it, that's what you're going to cherish more than, than everybody else there and the shrimp and the, you know, the, all that stuff. Yeah. That's of like, do that later. You guys could do a really cool, maybe fifth anniversary party or something when you're debt free.

I just really believe that the small family wedding, as long as you mark the moment and you do it right within a realistic budget, George, I just, I like that play. And I think that's all that's going to matter to you 26 years from now. And if they're covering 20 grand, that's my wedding budget. I'm going, all right, we're not going to spend a dime on this.

We're going to figure out. I'm so glad you said that because that was like, Rose, we ain't spending anything on it. We're taking the family money, and we're going to make the most of it. Hey. George will come play at the wedding. He's really good. He's got an acoustic guitar set that is very romantic. I just saw John Mayer played at a wedding.

I assume he was a lot of money, but you could afford me, Rose. Yeah. It's no problem. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's great. Congratulations. I love, here's the thing, getting your marriage off to the right start financially, to me, is way more important than we had an amazing wedding and everyone was so impressed, because you're really throwing a party for other people. Yeah. And on behalf of all dudes, I would like to say that we really don't care. Have a ceremony. Let's get that thing done. And let's go to the honeymoon.

I remember moments after the ceremony, I was like, we could have saved a lot of time and money on this. And you're people out after that wedding. Yeah. You've shaken the hands and kissed the babies and, you know. A lot of stress. A lot of things. And it's like you have that moment where you get to the back of the church. It's just you. The wedding planner hasn't even caught up yet. And you're just standing there going, huh, this could have been a lot simpler. As a guy. This could have been an email. Let me be very clear that Stacey does not feel that way. But I'm just

saying like the guys are kind of like really you know 100 so you don't you remember how much you spent on the wedding i don't who knows it's a long time ago yeah but i think it would shock our audience it wasn't a lot i was a wee lad when you guys got married yes you were but i think that i think oh boy i'm gonna step in it right here okay I think as a whole, Americans spend ridiculously too much on weddings. I don't think that's even controversial now. We're seeing, you know, six-figure weddings become the norm. And by the way, I think they're getting price gouged. I'm going to catch it for that.

The wedding industry is gouging people. No, it costs, I get it. It costs money to do all the things, but there's a lot of, you just have to do it because this is what weddings cost. White folded chairs should only cost so much. There ought to be a law to cap the price of renting white lawn chairs. That's essentially what they are. Just go to Trader Joe's, pick some flowers, call it a day. Spend $150.

Yeah. I think there should be like a community fund for weddings. The church donates their place. the chair people donate their chair you know what i mean it's like people aren't they gotta make a living too they got a lot of chairs they make their living on corporate stuff i i i've gotten over my skis clearly but it's just too much you're right i think we can do more with less and the people that really remember it they love anyways, regardless of what the food was like or the donut wall. I don't want to touch the donut. How long?

Who touched those donuts before me? I don't even know what a donut wall is. Is this a thing at weddings? It's a wall of donuts on hooks and you grab donuts off. At weddings? Yeah. It's a thing. Feels like a church thing.

It's a lot of gluten for me. Yeah, that's true. You swell up when you get too much gluten. That's true. It's not a pretty sight, folks. You should see it. I've seen it. I had to give him his reaction shot one time right in the heart.

He came back quickly, though. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So thrilled that you are with us. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you. And I got to tell you, George. Oh, boy.

One of my favorite long-running segments from you is the I got to tell you. I got to tell you. I don't know what's coming. I gotta tell ya. I think we're spending too much on our dogs. This one's personal. America's out of control. No, I've got two doodles, full disclosure.

Got a big guy doodle, Ellis. He's amazing. And then we got a little mini golden doodle, Honey. And she's amazing. Yeah, love our doodles. And I've been watching a lot of football, as I do. And the commercials now are starting to get ridiculous on premium dog food. Oh, I've seen these.

But before I get to that, let me just make my case about how we've lost our minds about our pets okay give me some numbers the average annual cost of owning a dog is 376 dollars a month george and quick math tells you that's 4512 a year this according to a recent survey of dog owners gen z spends the most of any current generation at an average of 590 dollars a month george that's 7 080 dollars a year 66 percent of these respondents have made cutbacks on the thing they need or want 65 percent have sought financial assistance from friends and family so this is dealing with the stress of owning the dog the month the the amount of money george they're spending on dogs is requiring them to cut back on other things oh boy and seek financial assistance from friends and

family so you're telling me two-thirds of people out there going hey mom dad brother sister i need some money to fund Fido's life. More than 60% have cut back on home improvements, experiences, basic necessities to cover the cost of their dog ownership. And more than 50% of Americans have cut back on dog food, pet insurance, and vet care. And so Kelly, the amazing associate producer, gave me this information. And so, George, I got to tell you, I'm getting a little irritated specifically with now what I think is an attempt to rip off Americans and their love of their doggies. And it's the premium dog food. The premium dog food. The kibble, I guess, is killing them or what?

No, no. This is like, why feed your dog dog food? They deserve real food. I've seen this trend. Have you seen these commercials and the trend? I mean, you own two dogs. Yeah, and I have French Bulldogs, which are very allergic to life. And so they say, Ken, well, you got to make their own chicken,

and you got to make their own meals for them with real vegetables and real meats. I understand that's probably the healthiest option for them. But if my dog is eating better than me, my priorities are out of order. If I'm eating a frozen pizza and my dog's got the organic free-range chicken, it's a problem. We're doing it wrong. So I'm with you on this. And this is coming from a guy who spends a lot on his pets every month.

Do you care to be honest with America? Do you see these numbers? Yeah, I actually did this. Okay, so we did a YouTube video where I walked through the camel's personal budget. I go, hey, here's a general list of our expenses, and we spend about $500 on our dogs. A month? A month. Now, this is between not just food.

This is, you know, you're going to hate this, Ken. I feel like there's another i gotta tell you we've got a doggy daycare situation twice a week to get their energy out because they're out of shape and we can't run them around the neighborhood so they go to a friend's house time out why can't you last time i checked you have a very healthy gait you can walk how come you can't we do take them on walks but they get to socialize with the other dogs. So now this is... It's like socializing with children.

So you're wasting money, George. You can take your dogs on a walk seven days a week. As you know, I have no hobbies. Yeah, but you said that they have to get their energy out. Yeah. No, that's not what this is. You feel somehow that they're not getting enough dog relationships, and you're paying money for them to go to doggy daycare.

Oh, boy, you're right. You just admitted. Now, here's why I'm shocked at this, America. I'm not picking on George, but you are the most frugal person I know. Yes, and the dogs are one of the only places I'm fine to splurge on. How much are you paying for doggy daycare? I think it's like, I don't know, 50, 60 bucks a week. I got it.

You might as well light that money on fire. You might as well put it in your fire pit and burn it. It's ridiculous. In our stage of life, we've worked really hard and we love our dogs so much that we're fine to spend a few hundred bucks on the dogs. It's in the every dollar budget. Do you buy premium? What else?

See, America needs to know. They do have premium food. What else are you spending? Oh, you are buying them premium food. It's like the hypoallergenic, you know, all the things that they need. Because French Bulldogs, if you know, are born broken. We're talking, you know, spinal issues, hip issues, allergic to grass, allergic to air. I mean.

Can I say something about your precious dogs? Yeah. And my precious dogs. And everybody's precious dogs. We've lost our minds. Yeah, because that dog left to their own device. Your precious dog, your super premium breed, will drink out of your toilet if they're left to their own devices.

It's disgusting. I agree. They don't care what they eat. Where do your dogs sleep? That's the question. That tells a lot about a man. Well, Honey's a puppy, and so we're crate training her. Oh, that's good.

And so she sleeps in a crate in the retreat, which is our room over the garage. And Ellis sleeps on his nice dog bed next to our bed. Oh, that's nice. But that's on the floor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Ellis is eight, and he's practically a human. He's gigantic. He's no work at all. I don't have to do anything for ellis like nothing fill up his bowl and he's an independent man yeah he opens the screen door going out to our he does it himself i open up

the door every morning and he headbutts the screen door that's love that dog see boom right out there you you're taking your dogs to doggy daycare to get their energy out. I don't mind. My wife loves it because she doesn't have to deal with them for the day. They get their energy out. They come home, and they're wiped. It's great. They don't have to hassle us.

Speaking of wiped, there is a nasty rumor out there that I have got to get to the bottom of. Because I feel like this is part of the $500 a month we're wasting. We've got to air the dirty laundry here on the ramsay show the word is from some some unnamed sources that you wipe your dogs behind you got you know the dogs sleep in the bed with us these little frenchies and so i gotta make sure they're they're clean so you're watching them go poo and then you they walk in the house and you go hold still you. You gotta check. You gotta check. You give them a wipe? That's right. I'm not ashamed of it. She's got an inverted tail, Ken. It's a medical issue

at this point that would require surgery and I refuse to pay for the surgery. I thought I'd heard everything on this show. Gosh, I feel like this segment was, you did this to throw me under the dog bus. This is real data. As a budget guy, does this not concern you? I'm spending less than Gen Z, which makes me feel better.

But does this not concern you about Americans? It does, but I also go, listen, the world is chaotic. They don't have a lot of friendships. They go, this dog is my world. It's like their Tamagotchi. Remember those? You got to take care of the little Tamagotchi pet. I feel like you're running for Congress right now

and you're just spinning this thing. I think Gen Z is with me. I think pets are the last. Oh, I'm going to get, I are the last. Good thing I don't read the comments because they're going to make me the old guy get off my lawn guy. Well, now if you talk about horses, I don't think horses are pets necessarily. When you need to buy land and have a farm and a stable, that's a lot of work. If you got to wipe your dog's butt after they do their business, maybe they shouldn't sleep on the bed. There's a step to me that I feel like is in between what you're doing. We've already crossed the line.

Once you cross the line, once that dog gets a taste of that bed, party's over. Is that not exhausting to you? You do realize you'll be doing this for the entire life of the dog. It is exhausting. But you know what? It keeps me humble. Hey, there's an idea. Doggy diapers.

Just put a diaper on them at nighttime. That's a whole lot less than what you're doing. You're right. I'll look into it. I's a whole lot less than what you're doing. You're right. I'll look into it. I will look into it, but I have no problem with it. But it also keeps me humble. I think you'll never have an ego when you go to wipe your dog's butt.

That's just one man's opinion. That's why I stay so humble. It's such an unnecessary step of humility. French Bulldog owners will support me on this one. I guarantee it. Ken, if you live like no one else, you get to live like no one else. And George is doing that. You know what, James?

That right there, I stand corrected. If you, because you are a Baby Steps Millionaire, you can buy all the dog butt wipes you want to. You do what you do. And I know judgment over here. I feel like there's judgment over here. I'm going to step away from judgment. No judgment. It's your deal. Listen, I'm not mad about it. If you're paying cash, don't go into debt for a pet.

Put it in the every dollar budget and make sure you're still hitting your financial goals. That's it. And if you would like to donate some doggy diapers to George, send them to Ramsey Solutions. Care of George Camel. And we'll see if he tries it. Alright, more of your calls coming up. send them to Ramsey Solutions, care of George Camel, and we'll see if he tries it. All right. More of your calls coming up. This is the Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right. So I was born and raised in Texas,

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BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and George Campbell. Is joining me 888-825-5225. Ramsey trusted pros shop the market and compare insurance quotes for you. So you don't have to. Your pro will compare quotes, discounts, and bundling deals for you at no extra cost. I know that I'm a guy that likes to be insured, George, but I don't want to be overinsured. And that's why we work, our family, with a Ramsey Trusted Pro. We interview, vet, and coach these

experts. They're already market experts, but we want to make sure that they are paying attention to the advice we give you and coaching you that way. You can shop the right coverage based on your individual needs by going to ramseysolutions.com slash coverage. That's ramseysolutions.com slash coverage. Adriana is now joining us in Orlando, Florida. Adriana, how can we help? Hi, guys. How are you? Good. How are you? Good. All right.

So I guess I have kind of a weird call. I hear you guys always having callers saying, how can I get my wife or my husband on board? My call is, how do I get my 23-year-old son on board to do a budget and all that? How's he doing financially right now? He's doing really well. He does live at home with me now, and he makes a little over $3,000 a month, which for me, it's a good amount for his age.

For a guy with no bills, absolutely. Pretty much, pretty much. I do have him help me with some rent, and he does have a car payment. I did buy him a car in December, but I told him he had to pay for it. So pretty much that's all he has. His expenses a month pretty much is maybe less than $1,000. Okay, when you say he has a car payment, are you saying he has a car loan?

Oh, yes, yes. He has a car and he pays monthly for it. Okay. When you say he has a car payment, are you saying he has a car loan? Oh, yes. Yes. He has a car and he pays monthly for it. Okay. Was this before you knew about the baby steps? Because I'm confused. You're trying to get him on board, but we just steered him off course. Well, yeah. No, I knew about the Ramsey plan maybe 12, 10, 12 years ago. I kind of fell off myself and then getting back on it. Okay. And actually at that time he was 11 and he, he did his own little budget because he saw me doing it. There we go. That's what I'm getting at is more is caught than taught. So when he sees mom telling him, go get a car loan, or she's got her car loan and she's saying, Hey, you should be debt free. You should follow this guy, Dave Ramsey. He's going to go, what?

You don't even do that. So I think the key to getting him on board is for him to see the transformation in your own life, to see what it's like to live without payments, to see you doing a budget. Right. Well, I am doing it. I don't have – my car's paid off. It's been paid off.

Good. So, you know, and I do my budget every month. So I'm like, okay, sit down with me. Let's do yours. And, you know, he gives me the whole, I have my own budget and it's in my head. And, you know, just like, wait, you did it at 11 with no problem. What's the issue now? Yeah.

Well, part of this is he doesn't have a real adult life yet. Can I be honest? As long as I lived at home, the budget was in my head too. Until I had to pay my own rent, my own bills, my own insurance, I went, oh crap, I got to figure this stuff out. I can't have the cake and eat it too. And right now, he's kind of living in this purgatory false reality where his life is largely funded, so why should I do a budget when my bills are $1,000 a month?

Is he working full-time? He has actually two jobs. Okay. Yeah, one's full-time, and then he works part-time at a restaurant. How old is he again? And 23. Yeah.

I mean, if he wanted to move out, he wouldn't be able to, and I've told him that. Exactly. And I think that's where we need to go. I wouldn't be able to and i've told him exactly and i think that's where we need to go to kick him out exactly i think ken needs to help on the career side he needs something to sink his teeth into well here's we got we got a couple of issues going on here um this uh-oh and there's that one you spooked me. You keep saying even if he wanted to move out, he couldn't. Well, that's the problem. It should be very natural for a 23-year-old to want to move out.

That is natural. Something about this whole situation is unnatural. I'm not trying to be unkind. I'm not blaming you. I'm just telling you that it is very normal for a kid to go off to college and be very excited about this new life that they live. And he's now 23, your son. But it's normal for 18-year-olds to go off.

George and I were just talking about this during the break. I'm experiencing this with our oldest son. It's normal. He's loving his college life right now, and he's coming home for the break, but he's already talking about how quick he came back. i remember back those days where that was me too and when i got done with college i didn't want to move back in with my parents so i think there's a bigger issue here that that's not just the baby steps you've got a you've got a grown man who's really not adulting to use a current term and i think mom i think it's time for you to kind of go hey babe I love you um you got

six months you got six months to get out and I've not done a good job you need boundaries you need to move I mean that's what needs to happen I think and then this idea of how you get him on board I mean uh I think George is right model the way and and and be supportive not not and i'm not saying you're nagging him but the days of him listening to mom like he used to are over and right now you're just a big giant comfortable safety net for him and that needs to go away because he's not going to grow up and part of this is going let's look at the reality of the numbers and why you can't move out part of that might be the car payment and you go okay what if we could get rid of the car payment we aggressively pay this down then you'd be able to move out look at the budget it's showing you that you could afford this but i don't think he

wants to move out why would he is are you doing the laundry are you cooking well yeah hey i'm staying but that's but that's adriana that's the thing i mean with this car i i can't even get him to understand he can literally pay this car off in within a year living at home or not but i mean living at home he could yeah but adriana you're missing the point that i'm making but he has nothing to show for adriana he hasn't had to work hard he hasn't had to work hard. He hasn't had to deal with reality. You're wanting this kid to think in terms of reality, and you're part of the problem. He's not living in reality. Does that make sense?

I don't mind if you push back on me here. No, no, no. No, I get it. You're actually acting. I'm trying to push him. No, you're not. You're not. You've made it too comfortable for him. You're making... I'm trying to push him. No, you're not. You're not. You've made it too comfortable for him. You're making it too comfortable.

The growth comes from discomfort, and right now his growth is stunted because he's living in total comfort. His frontal lobe is not developed. The experts say it's like 26 or 27 for men, and I doubt that. I'm 50, and I think mine's still probably not there yet. My wife would probably agree from day in and day out. In the South, we say your cornbread's not done in the middle. Thank you, George. There you go.

But in all honesty, Adriana, you're expecting him to function like you, a mature adult. Number one, his frontal lobe's not developed, and in lieu of that, he needs real responsibility to get him in line. And you've taken all that from him. That kid's got it easy. You've put him on easy street, and you're going, man, he just doesn't have any gumption. I don't know why.

I'll call Ken and George today. The reason he doesn't have any gumption is because he doesn't need any gumption. Or grit, if you want to put that word. Let's get him some resources, Ken. I'm going to send him your resource, find the work you're wired to do with the Get Clear Career Assessment. That'll help him with direction. And my book, Breaking Free from Broke, to show him a path out of this and show him what could be. But again, George, don't you agree?

If she doesn't make life uncomfortable for him by saying reality is coming it's time for you to adult he won't use any of those resources 100 yeah i'm big on this what what can i say to him that because i've even george told you i love you you've got six months to move out here he wouldn't be able she didn't hear you okay just give him an ultimatum that yeah and out of love this is not an angry thing and saying hey we're going to going to do a budget. I want to make sure that when you leave this place, you're not going to fall flat on your face. Let's do a budget based on what reality would be out there when you're covering your own

bills. And if you can't do that, then we have to go, we need a better job. We need more of a career versus part-time jobs that are funding the bills. Coaching. Coaching based on reality. And say you've got six months. July of 2025, you're going to be on your own. here's what rent's going to cost here's what your car payment is

put a quickie budget together for him show him and it's not in his head say no I want to do this on paper because I care about your future I think you're more scared than he is I don't think he has any idea what reality looks like and I think you know what reality looks like

so there you go hey that is going to do it for the portion of the show, unless you're listening to radio, that you're going to get on podcast or YouTube. You can get the rest of the show. We've got more calls lined up at the Ramsey Network app. You can search for that in your favorite podcast app or on Google Play. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money,

win in your work, and win in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. We'd love to coach you up today. 888-825-5225. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. And we're going to start it off in Detroit, Michigan with Lydia. Lydia, how can we help today? Hi there. Thank you for taking my call.

My husband and I are both retired. He's 74 and 69. We're currently renting and just wondering whether we should rent the rest of our lives or if it's wise to take money out of our investments to help purchase a home. How much is your rent? $2,000 a month. And what is your monthly income? Our income is around $7,000 a month. It's investments and Social Security. Okay.

What's your total nest egg, too? $800K. All right. And you're already drawing, too? $800K. All right. And you're already drawing off of that $800K? Yes, that is our income, yes. But that needs to last us the rest of our life. How much are you withdrawing from the different investments, and the total is $3,000 a month. So the other is Social Security.

Yes. Okay. So you're withdrawing, let's call it, about 4% a year off of this $800,000? Mm-hmm. Okay. That feels accurate and conservative so that you don't run out of money uh but i don't think it's wise to take 400 of this to put into a home i think at this stage i do think it's wise to be a homeowner in your lifetime for you guys in your stage of life and where you're at and with your

size of your nest egg i would say you're seven grand we're just gonna have to make that work as sort of a fixed income now what you need to know is you guys could live 25 30 more years right and rent is going to go up in that time so just know that over time that's going to eat up more of your world and that's why we say it's a good idea to get rid of your largest fixed expense by owning a home that's paid for but you know I wasn't thinking of withdrawing the total amount just enough for a down payment and getting a mortgage. Yeah, I mean, I don't like that. You could do that, but I still think there's still a gamble here. I don't like you carrying a mortgage at this point. There's more risk there versus renting. You're a little more nimble. You have more options. You could find a place with cheaper rent versus having to sell that house.

And, you know, the expenses are going to go up either way. Homeowners, insurance, property taxes. Yeah. Life is no maintenance at our age. Yeah. I mean, you guys are doing okay. I mean, $7,000 is not nothing. But we've got to know that $7,000 20 years ago

was very different than $7,000 today, and the same is going to be true for 20 years from now. So what you guys will have to be really good at is a budget and making sure that we're consistently living on less than we make. Can we even live off, you know, how much are you actually spending in a month? Around $4,000. So you have $3,000 left over every month? Yeah. Where is that going?

That is, well, we are saving some, but mostly it's like we save money for any car repairs because our car is older and we have a lot of insurances and then your normal consumers and cell phones and things like that. Okay. Do you guys have any debt? No. Okay, good. Because I'm wondering, if you have a $3,000 surplus, what if we just take less out of the investments so we're not unplugging growth there

and maybe go for a smaller number to say, all right, we're going to try to take out $2,000 a month from our investments and use Social Security to fund the rest. Okay. But I don't think I'd jump into homeownership at this stage. I want to lean in on that idea because I'm in the same place George is on this, Lydia. What are your absolute – I think you told us. What is the absolute just covering all the basics?

What's that number each month? Your true expenses, no splurge, just all of the utilities, food, gas. Things that we spend, right. What do you spend? Yeah, look in the, well, that's including $1,000 when we transfer the savings. It's about $4,000 a month. Okay, and that includes $1,000 that you're putting in savings? Yes, I believe that's added in our total. I have my spreadsheet here.

Okay, and so if I'm understanding you, then your real hard expenses that you absolutely have to cover are $3,000 a month. Your Social Security payment is $4,000. It's $4,000, yeah. I'm going to make the case... Could you just live off

the Social Security right now? ...to just live off of Social security for a year let's just adjust our lifestyle and test it and not be drawing down on the 800k and let's just see what life looks like because i would love to have that 800k not being touched right now and just live off of social security because i think you can do it based on these numbers, if you really get a real budget. Yeah. And here's the math on this. So you're concerned that the $800K is not, like, enough?

I mean, you're living. I mean, you're not struggling. You have margin left over. You're living really good. But it's not super comfortable. And you're not able to buy a home and all these things. So if you left the investment alone, let's say, history would say every about seven years, it would double. So seven years from now, you are 76?

No, yes, 76. You'll be 76. And he'll be 81. And you'll have 1.6 million in that investment account. So just goes to show you what growth can do if we're not, you're not ripping a lot out of there. So I'm not super worried about that. But i would get in touch with a smart investor pro ramsay solutions.com click on trusted services they can help you crunch the numbers on this and

go okay hey if you got rid of that rent expense and instead had a mortgage and you use this much as the down payment well this is what would be left of the investments you would you get to lower your expenses by two grand and so you know you can crunch the numbers on that i'm just my gut says it's the juice ain't worth the squeeze i agree i think i would i agree with george but i i think lydia um i if you were my parents and you guys are the same age as my parents i i would i would coach you to rent at this point and i would not draw uh as much as you're drawing each month right now. Because you can always change that.

But I just think that making that stretch a little bit to Georgia's point, let's say you live 20 more years. Then you're going to need that $800 to compound to live comfortably. Because likely your expenses might double 20 years from now. That's exactly right. So we're not trying to create alarm. I just don't think you guys need to be drawing $3,000 a month out of that account. Okay. Well, you really opened my eyes to some things,

and I feel a lot better about running now. So thank you very much. Yeah, you're good. It's not a sin. I mean, we just say it's better to be an owner than a loaner to have a fixed expense covered with a paid for home as you enter retirement. Yeah. Yeah. So thanks for the question. Yeah, it's a good one. A smart investor pro is the right conversation. Anybody that's in a similar situation like this, sit down with a smart investor pro and look at all of the options, crunch the numbers, don't go into it with a hunch, really run the numbers out. Because I think in this situation,

I agree with you, George, if I were them, I'd probably stay. Even though the rent's going to go up, I just wouldn't pull out of that nest egg for a home at this point. Yeah. And if you can leave it invested, you can invest more. Well, a few years from now, we might have a different conversation about buying a home or upgrading our lifestyle a little bit. But right now, it's a little tight. And that's why we tell you, just invest for the future. Get as early of a start as you can so that compound growth can work in your favor. And they're in that in-between. That's right. Thanks for the call, Lydia. This is The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman.

George Camel is alongside. 888-825-5225. Glad you are aboard. Speaking of aboard. All aboard. I see what you did there. That's usually a train thing. But I'm using it for the Ramsey cruise.

Get on board. Have you picked out your cruise outfits yet? It's a little early. It's a little early. It's in March. March 22nd to the 29th. 2025. But I am getting very excited. My wife will be joining. Will Stacey be with us? Stacey will be joining. Gracing us with her

presence. Lots. Because of George and Stacey, there will be a whole suitcase worth of 75 sunscreen. SPF. That's true. You're the only two people I know that put that much sunscreen on. I play the long game with my investments and with my skin. As does Stacey. You're going to have a baseball

glove for a face with as much sun as you get. I will. So I'll be bringing a whole bag. So tell Whitney, Ken's got us covered. Stacey will have extra 75 SPF. We are going to be there it's a premium caribbean cruise turks and caicos puerto rico saint thomas bahamas on holland america's new statendam ship not sure what accent that was but it felt offensive to all

people somehow well the way it's written in italics on my talking points as if to pronounce it the right way. That's fair. I have no idea how to pronounce that. But, you know, it's going to have all the standard really world-class fare because Dave requires great restaurants, great entertainment. The pools are nice. The world-class guests and celebrity guests we have are going to be incredible. Like Deanna Carter, Stephen Curtis Chapman, comedian Trey Kennedy, and world-class chef Manit Chauhan.

All of the Ramsey personalities, including George, will be there. And I'm told there's pickleball courts. So I keep telling everybody about that. For you pickleball enthusiasts out there, I will be hosting a daily competition. I think if you can beat Ken, you get a free book or something. I mean, you are tough to beat. I think there's probably a good amount of people that'll be on this cruise that are better than

me. There's some serious I'm good, but I'm not great. And so I'm looking forward to some competition. I don't mind some competition out there. It's going to be fun. Start practicing. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. I'mSolutions.com slash cruise.

I'm told that we are really close to a sellout. Like the percentage doesn't even matter. That's how close we are. So you know what that means. You better act now. Go for it. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. What are you going to do on the cruise?

I might try some comedy. You're going to do some stand-up? I think doing something fun like that would be a good time. Maybe some music, like a songwriter night or something different. I want you to know that if you do stand-up, I will be there, and I'm going to be guffawing. Wow. Even if it's not funny. Just to be a supportive friend.

Yeah. I appreciate that. But the really loud laugh. Do you know what I mean? To where it sounds fake. It's like a laugh track. Yeah. So what happens is even if your jokes aren't funny,

people start laughing at me. I know what I'm doing. It's a psychology trick. You've got to have some support if you're going to do that. Thanks for assuming that no one will be laughing. That hurts. No, I think you're funny. I think you're a funny guy.

Thank you. Michael's up in Toledo, Ohio. Michael, how can we help? Hello, sir. How are you? Good. How are you today? I'm doing fabulous.

Thanks for your time. You bet. What's going on? So I just got a situation to run by you. So we just had our baby. She's about a month and a half old. Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Our first one.

My wife decided to stay home, which is great until she goes to preschool. And then my just opened up a Roth IRA. I have a brokerage account that has about $60,000 in it. And I'm trying to figure out from the calculations I've been doing, is it smarter because I can only invest $583 a month into one of these accounts? Pretty much I can max out the Roth or continue just investing my brokerage account since I already have $60,000 in it. I'm just trying to figure out what's the smarter way to do this moving forward. Well, the smart thing to do here, you know, if you're out of debt, you have an emergency fund, that would put you in baby step four. So that's investing 15% of your income into retirement accounts. And so we would say match beats Roth beats traditional. If you have a match through your employer, let's start there, 100% return. Then beyond that, we're going to do all

of our Roth options because there's some tax advantages there. After-tax money grows tax-free. Once you've exhausted the Roth options, like the Roth IRA or Roth 401k, you can go back to your traditional options. So the brokerage account would 401k, you can go back to your traditional options. So the brokerage account would be outside of that beyond the 15% later on down the road. So I wouldn't continue funding the brokerage account unless you had a very specific goal of, hey, we're saving up for a down payment on a home. So we're putting all of it there because this is a five or six year goal. Okay. So if I was in your shoes, 30 years old, I'm in a similar boat. I'm 35. I got a 14 month old and, you know, we're working through all of the investment options,

but I would rather see you max out the Roth. Now you're saying you have a maximum of 583 to put in there a month. Where does that come from? So I use the EveryDollar app. And then after everything like, you know, expenses, mortgage, blah, blah, blah, blah, is paid out, I just have enough to invest $583,000 in one of these accounts. What's your income for the year? It fluctuates, so it's between $70,000 and $85,000.

Okay. Because at $70,000, that would be about 10 grand a year. At 85, you're talking about 12, 13 grand a year invested. So my question for you is how come we can't get to that 15% mark? What are the expenses holding you back? Oh, so my wife, we go back to Japan every year to see our family. And so just those plane tickets is about $6,000 round trip. So that's another piece that's taken up a huge chunk, about $700 a month, because we're leaving pretty soon. So next October is about a year from now. Wow.

Even with the 45-day-old child? Yes. Wow. Hey, here's a crazy idea. How about they come to you guys once every so often? We tried that, but her parents are 75, 80, and then that flight is about 30 hours. Oh, you got it. I didn't realize they were that old.

That makes some sense. Yikes. Oh, you got it. I didn't realize they were that old. That makes some sense. Yikes. So you have two options here. Either we need to find ways to limit our expenses, or we need to find ways to make more. Or you don't go back every year. Or we do it once every two years now that we have a kid. Are you going multiple times a year? No, just one. We go one time a year for about a month and a half. Okay. You spend a lot of time there. Well, I mean, I hope that answers your question on the investing side. I think a brokerage account is a great tool as a bridge account if you're looking to access funds before you're 60 or you're saving up for a longer-term goal that's a five-plus-year goal. But outside of that, I would be putting all my money into those tax advantage accounts.

That's where your money is going to work the most for you. Okay. So pretty much just keep the money sitting in the brokerage account, let it compound on itself, and then just take that $583,000 and throw it in the wall? Absolutely. Do you guys have a home? We do. Okay.

Because you could also, if you don't need the brokerage money, you could let it grow and use that to pay off the home eventually. Well, that's a smart idea, too. I didn't think about that part. Because you're 30, and at this point, you're going to build so much wealth, I'd rather see you in the meantime free up the margin with that house payment that could go toward more travel or investing more down the road, and your income's only going to go up.

So you're in a really good spot asking good questions yeah really good love seeing that uh i gotta pull back my remarks a little bit about yeah i said maybe not go every year but you know what i started thinking about it i gotta i gotta say they're i'm thinking about the grandparents are older you gotta go baby you gotta go once that's tough though when it's across the world like that and i know which is why i dialed it when it's across the world like that I know which is why I dialed it back after I thought about it

I was being too frugal I wasn't being practical this happens as you know you have aging family there's always the well we don't know how many more years

we have with them it's really true and so you go alright we gotta do this we gotta do this but there's there's also a piece of if this is gonna set us

back financially if they were in crippling debt yes we would go listen it's gonna be a lot of face time that's right it's not ideal but there's also a piece of, if this is going to set us back financially, if they were in crippling debt, we would go, listen, it's going to be a lot of FaceTime. It's not ideal, but we're also not going to drop six grand on this trip every year. But if it's in the budget, and you can still hit your goals, go for it.

Absolutely. Good stuff. Alright, quick break. We'll be right back. He is George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show alongside George Camel and Ken Coleman. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Hayden is up in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hayden, how can we help? Hello. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Good afternoon. So my question is, my girlfriend and I are looking to probably get married in the next year or so here. I'm debt-free, baby step 3B or 4, depending on how you look at it, and she has about $60,000 in debt. I'm wondering if I should start saving up money now to prep to pay that off when we're married,

or if I should start investing in retirement now. How much are you investing right now? Currently just my employer match, which I believe is 4%. And the rest is going toward a sort of home down payment fund? Yes, sir. I would stay on that course, but I would reset my mind to go, this is not a home down payment fund. This is a get out of debt in the future fund. Okay. And that way, you know, how much do you think you'll have? Let's say you get married a year from now, 12 months from now, you have the employer match you've been doing

plus the savings. What do you think your savings is at? I'll probably be around 50. Okay. So pretty close. And my guess is a year from now, she'll have paid down hopefully a bunch of that student loan debt. Yes, sir. How much do you think she'll pay off between now and the day you get married? Let's see. So her car's going to be gone in January. So she'll probably be somewhere between 40 and 50. Perfect. So that would be my plan. And truthfully,

it hurts, doesn't it? To go, man, I was making all this progress. I was saving up. We're going to be able to buy a house and now it's building a financial foundation, getting out of the debt,

getting an emergency fund. So it feels like you're taking a step back a little bit. But it's building a financial foundation getting out of the debt getting an emergency fund so it feels like you're taking a step back a little bit but it's so temporary when you think about the fact that you're about to combine your financial lives she's going to be working it's going to increase your income as a household and you're going to get back to building wealth in no time yeah so that's the hardest part truthfully it's not the numbers it's the emotion of oh i was worked so hard to build this thing up and now i have to let it go to fund someone else's debt but it looks like he'll have the cash to pay it off completely and now she's got an income what are you what is what's your combined income estimated to be? Probably going to be around $75.

It'll jump a little bit with the seasons. That's great. Debt-free couple. And to George's point, you guys, you're in baby step four. Well, that's my question for him. Can I ask a question, George, on behalf of young Hayden? Hope I have an answer. Well, so 12 months from now, he's got the 50.

And so maybe her debt's 40 to 50. Let's be conservative and say she only gets it down to 50. He wipes out her debt. And so here they go. Do they start 3B right away? Or do we start 4 and get that off and running and then get into 3B? You see where I'm going? Yeah, it depends on the urgency of when you want the house and we also have to think about the baby step three of the emergency fund. Because if they wipe out the debt, it kind of puts them back

at square one with not much in savings. So that would be your A1 after getting married? Oh, I thought he was saving beyond the emergency fund. Am I wrong? Yeah, that would be beyond. Okay, so you have 50K above and beyond the emergency fund. Am I wrong? Yeah, that would be beyond. Okay, so you have $50,000 above and beyond the emergency fund. At that point, yeah. Great. Okay, so it doesn't have to go backwards. And Baby Step 3B

is a choose-your-own-adventure. So people can choose to invest anywhere from 0% to 15% in that phase while they save up for a home-down payment. You might continue the match and go anything beyond that, like we were, is going to go toward the home down payment. And my guess is with a dual income, with no debt, you're going to get there faster than you think,

so you're not going to lose that much time. And my assumption is she's worth it. Yeah. There we go. There you go. And so that's a hard one, Ken. When one person was very financially responsible, the other person has some money baggage,

so many things are cleaning up. That's a hard thing to grapple with emotionally because you worked really hard to save up that 60 grand. So it's hard to let go and go, all right, fine, I'll pay off the debt. But what you're gaining is so much more. And that unity you create in your marriage, the momentum you create by kicking it off debt-free, so worth it.

Yeah, I agree. All right, Sarah's up next in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. You ever been to Baton Rouge, George? We did an event there. Oh, that's right. Back in the day. They got some good Cajun food there. Sarah, how can we help? wondering if it's a better thing to do by either going into debt for student loans or using a

small portion of my 401k to go to a vocational school for six months and to potentially make way more than making that. What's the vocational school? I mean, let me restate. Well, it's for personal training. I'm really big into fitness and working out and stuff. And my trainer, who was helping me with a previous injury, inspired me to go to this particular school. And it's like the best in North America. They've got people coming from all over the world. What's the six-month program cost? $10,000 is for just the tuition.

That includes books, everything. I'm looking at more the expense on the housing because I would have to go to Orlando, and housing over there would probably cost me $1,500 to $2,000 a month. And that's in addition, is that in addition to the tuition of $10,000 or is $10,000 included? Yeah, I'm looking at about $30,000 to $35,000 at the most. Can you work while you go through this program? I was going to try to get it part-time, but it wouldn't be full-time. It would only be to pay for food and a couple of incidentals and stuff. Okay, hold on a second, Sarah.

I didn't listen very well. I thought I heard you say that it's a six-month program. Yes. And it's 10 grand for just the program. Yes. And then you said it's two grand a month in rent for six months. Maximal. I mean, I... How do you come up with $35,000? dollars because it's 10 for the tuition and about um 12 to 15 for the the housing and then i also have to take in my car insurance which is really high over there and um potentially health insurance if i want to keep carrying that hmm are you in debt right now um i've got less than five thousand on my car but that's it and i'll have that paid i've determined i want to have that paid off before i go so i'm thinking about going in january or february and what's your current income technically 20 an hour but i

take less than that because i take out insurance and i also take out stuff for my, my, um, my 401k that goes out every week. Um, so I take, I take home about $5.50 a week. Okay. How much do you have in savings? Um, nothing right now cause I'm doing it all paid down debt. Do you have a thousand dollars for your baby step one? No, but I could easily have that within a week or two. I mean, because really I'm just trying to pay it all off really quickly because I live with my parents and paid them rent. Okay.

Well, let me answer your question first. Do not borrow from your 401K for any reason, and please do not use student loans to fund this. It would be a withdrawal because even worse you're paying a 35 tax to use that money it's actually tax free if it's your school oh my goodness you still pay income tax but you don't pay the 10 percent you know i'm gonna be honest it sounds like you've already decided what you're gonna do and you wanted validation well no i i'm kind of i just don't know because I don't want to go into debt for it.

I want you to save up and pay cash for this program if this is it. And truthfully, no one cares where you got your training at. I care, can you help me get in shape? And so if there's a local program, I know this is the dream, maybe we do it one day, I would go into this field and do it locally, affordably, pay cash for it. Because right now you can't fund this thing and it's going to hold you back when you are doing it because you're going to have $35,000 of debt to be cleaning up.

Yeah. And I'm going to echo George, that school, if you want to go to that school, then you wait because that school is going to be there a year and a half from now, and you can save up that money in that amount of time. And I also want to question your math. I don't think it's $35,000. I think you're adding too much in there, and I think you're nervous about it. I think you've got to dig in a little bit more to this thing, and no one will ever care who's going to get physical therapy from you if you went to this world-renowned school that everybody goes to.

No one cares. So we just don't want you to borrow from yourself, take from your future. That's what you're proposing to us. It's not necessary. It's not the only way. And it's not even the best way. At least that's what George says, and I agree with him. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I ken coleman george camel joins me 888-255-225 is the phone number our scripture of the day comes from matthew 11 verse 29 take my yoke upon you let me teach you because i am humble and gentle at heart and you will find rest for your souls our quote of the day from j Rohn, formal education will make you a living, self-education will make you a fortune. I feel like that's all about you, George. Some good coach talk right there. Elizabeth is joining us in Philadelphia. Elizabeth, how can we help today? Hi, Ken. I'm calling because I'm a little bit conflicted about a career change. I'm 42 and single with no kids. And I've been a show listener for a while, and I can't quite get the right feedback from people around me because the opinions I think

are biased. But I've been working as a corrections officer for 20 years, and I'm a Christian. The environment is extremely difficult, and it's gotten increasingly difficult. When I started working 20 years ago, we had an option for retirement. I could retire at any age, immediately start collecting, as long as I did 25 years of service. But over the last four or five years, I've been extremely mentally and physically burned out. And the governor here opened up an option to retire at 20 years that I would forfeit 15% of my pension and any option for benefit. And so it would leave me with a certain amount, which I know that amount that I would take home. Can you tell that? Can you share that? Yeah, that would be $4,800 a month with no state tax. The first three years, I don't pay any state tax. And then after that,

I'd either have to pay, start paying state tax, or move to a state that has no state income tax. Okay. And what is your... $3,400. I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. I interrupted you, but I'm just curious what your monthly bills are. What's Comfort? Do you have any debt? Yes, I'm in baby step two, and I have no car payment. I've been shipping away for years. My budget is really tight, no cable or anything. But my total for Comfortable living right now with my mortgage is

about $3,400 a month. Okay. So that would leave you about $1,400 of margin. Right. And the main factor is that I don't want to retire and do nothing. What I'm actually looking to do is make a career change. And I recently started finishing my bachelor's of criminal justice, hoping to work for the medical examiner's office. So I want to attain another career. My problem is in law enforcement, when you work these government jobs with a pension, I do need medical benefits because I'm a diabetic and I need diabetic supplies. But everybody around you in your career field discourages it because they just offered us this, you know, big pay raise with this contract. But another five years when I don't want to be there.

It's going to suck the soul right out of you. So here's the question. Let's assume that we fast forward from today, and you have become qualified to work in the medical examiner's office, and you get the job. You will have benefits the minute that you start in the medical examiner's office. True or false? True.

Okay, then. So how long is it going to take you to get qualified to then get hired? I'm eligible to leave my job and immediately start collecting next July of 2025, and I'll probably have my bachelor's finished by December. Okay. So it's just a matter of I'm leaving myself open to relocation because sometimes the jobs aren't always immediately available. So we're talking 2026, you're ready to make the leap into medical examiner life. Correct.

Yeah. I think you can do that. And so my advice, here's what's great. You're calling me going, what should I do? You already know what you want to do. I'm presuming you're just saying, what do you think about this plan? And I like this plan. So if I were you, you've stuck it out for 20 years. I think you could stick it out for another year and a couple of months. And because you know that you're almost done and this is going to keep you stable with health care, given that you've got the challenge there with diabetes. And so you know you're okay there. And the minute you're qualified, then we start looking for jobs.

And as soon as we get a job, we're just going to walk from one bus to the next bus. It's like getting off a bus at a bus stop and the other one's waiting on you. And no interruption of benefits. And on top of that, you're doing something you're really excited about. And oh, by the way, we had $4,800 a month coming in for your very, very valuable service. That's the plan. And in the meantime, keep following those steps. Get out of debt, get an emergency fund so that when you do make that leap, it's not as scary. You don't have payments. You got the savings. You're ready to go. I'm actually on target to be at a debt at the same month and eligible for retirement. How about that?

Serendipity. Yeah. You know, Elizabeth, first of all, you're already tough because you put your life on the line. You're tough because you have put up with a very toxic environment for a long time. You are tough enough to hang on for about 12 to 14 more months. That's what I think. Great. Yep. Hang in there. You are so close. Thank you very much. Yeah, you're amazing. Thank you for calling us. Let's go to Tristan in Boise, Idaho. Tristan, how can we help? Hi, can you guys hear me okay? We can. Hi, George. Hi, Ken.

Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So my question is whether or not it's the right time to quit my second job. Why were you doing a second job? To go through Baby Step 1, 2, and 3. And are you through Baby Step 1, 2, and are you through baby step one two and three yes way to go amazing so what do you think i really want to quit it it's not like fulfilling and so what's keeping you from do you need the money yeah why are you calling us on this one

what do you need us to weigh in on feels like you want to and feels like you can. What am I missing? I guess I have like a scarcity mentality that I'm trying to work on. You're working full time, right? Well, no. So I'm a stay-at-home mom and we have an 11-month-old. And so I'm working two part-time jobs and um if I quit one of them and I want to keep the other because I enjoy it and I make about 700 a month

um but my husband and I between the two of us after investing about a thousand a month our take-home pays 10,000 and so i think we'd be okay without that six hundred um you would be fine i just don't want to i just don't want to jeopardize like you understand percentage wise you're talking about five percent so you're saying hey i didn't think about it like that yeah i mean 10 grand and you're talking about we're going to lose 600 bucks what's that going to do to us? Nothing. Not much. Think about the quality of life.

So I would absolutely, I mean, you could probably quit both jobs, if we're going to be honest. Yeah, but I... But you enjoy it, so that's fine. And I really like the young, yeah. But just don't make it about we need the money. That's the scarcity mindset. Well, we really, this really helps us. I would rather you see, you know, cut your spending down to where your expenses are, you know, seven grand instead of eight grand and free you up versus going, we need the extra money.

I got to keep working. Yeah. You've done what you needed to do. Okay. Good on you. Good on you for working that second job. We've been working hard with it, and we have, like, 5,000 left a month that we're, like, putting towards, like, we want to buy a house. And so have like 5,000 less a month that we're like putting towards like we want to buy a house and so we have 5,000 extra so I feel like the 600 like mathematically

like the numbs like facts are your friends as you guys say so like I think that's not the difference maker and you getting your house or not it's the savings rate it's the consistency the intentionality putting 60 grand a year away yes exactly so whether it's the consistency, the intentionality, putting $60,000 a year away. Yes, exactly. So whether it's $65,000 or $60,000, you're going to get there soon enough. So I would cut it because you told us we don't need it and it's draining me. Yeah, your heart's telling you to quit. Your head's telling you, is this smart? Exactly.

We're saying that it's don't listen to your head here, follow your heart. You're ready. You've done the work. Change your life for the better. You've put in the time. Now it's don't listen to your head here. Follow your heart. You're ready. You've done the work. Change your life for the better. You've put in the time. Now it's time to dial back. And it's such a small amount of money as George laid out. So we're all for you quitting that second job, doing the one you enjoy,

and keep moving forward with your goals. And here's a rule of thumb. Baby steps one through three, intense. Baby steps four through six, intentionality. And that's where you guys are at right now. And you're doing it. Way to go. Yeah, great. Baby steps four through six, intentionality. And that's where you guys are at right now. And you're doing it. Way to go.

Yeah, great. Proud of you guys. Way to go. Celebrate tonight. Enjoy that extra time with little one. That's why we live like no one else, George. We're quitting celebration party. Why do we live like no one else? To live and give like no one else.

He got it, folks. He's George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show We'll see you next time.