The Ramsey Show - App - Are You Willing to Give Up Your Career To Live Close to Family? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 4, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, your work, and your money. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend, best-selling author, relative hero to the office and to America, America's career coach, Ken Coleman. How are you, man? Doc, I'm living the dream. It's always fun when you and I get together because we're talking about everything. All of it.

We're not just taking money on. We're not just taking on doing what you love and actually making money. We're taking on relationship stuff, the type of stuff you talk about on your show. I hope we get a couple of those calls today. Like, I hope. I really do, man. I've got to have you on my show to take calls. We need to.

But if you haven't sampled the Dr. John Deloney show, get yourself a bucket of Orville Redenbacher and sit back and enjoy the healing that is happening over there. I mean, do you have a PG-13 and an R-rated sticker that you put on those shows? We have talked about having just a Deloney after dark. Yeah. Here's the thing, though. People are hurting, man. Yeah. Listen, there's no judgment there.

The first few calls, first few shows, James edited out. I would ask, like, why are you calling me? Yeah. Don't you have some friends? Don't you have community? The number one response every time was this. I got nobody. That's exactly right.

And it's the reason people call you. That's right. People are lost, man. You know, you and I are basically in the same business. We're just talking a little bit different focus. You're from that mental and emotional health. And then I'm coming at it from that purpose. Everybody longs to make a contribution.

Yes. And, you know, I talk about professional purpose and you talk about relational purpose. If you really break it down. And it all works together. And it all comes together. So here's the deal. When John and I are together, we like to ring the bell to say, hey, if you're listening right now and you feel like you've got some nasty junk going on at work, maybe some poor leadership, some toxicity, what do I do? John and I love to tag team those.

We'll come at it from the professional and the relational point of view. You've got some relationship questions. Oh, Dr. Deloney, he's on call. He's ready to go. And I weigh in on those, too. Always. You know, I've got an relationship questions. Oh, Dr. Deloney, he's on call. He's ready to go. And I weigh in on those too. Always. You know, I've got an opinion. Yes.

Been married 23 years, parenting three kids. I don't know what I'm doing. Hey, here's the big secret. So I can tell you what not to do. I've never parented teens before. It's like a roller coaster without a seatbelt. You know what? After my son was born, after about two or three years,

obviously my wife was the first, Dr. Deloney. She's a brilliantbelt. You know what? After my son was born, after about two or three years, obviously my wife was the first Dr. Deloney. She's a brilliant scholar. We spent a couple years with our son and we looked at each other more me than her and I said, I think every other parent's an idiot. We are geniuses.

We have solved this and what we need to do is quit our jobs and just go teach people how to do this because it's so easy. It's so easy. And then my daughter came along, and then we realized we don't know anything. Yeah, I went through that phase when we had three under three, and I went, golly, what a sleep, and it's really hard. But man, I pretty much got this down because I could take the two littles that are seven

months apart. We adopted and then got pregnant, and I could take the littles, put them both down when they needed their diaper changed. I don't know if Stacey's ever heard this, so I could take the littles, put them both down when they needed their diaper changed. And this was, I don't know if Stacy's ever heard this. I hope she's not listening. But I would wait until I saw both diapers be full. Okay. And I would go, okay, now it's time.

I would put both babies down on their back. Yeah. And do this number here. Could do the whole thing. And I thought, I've got this. And then they started walking. Then they started talking. And I realized, I'm nothing more than a professional diaper changer.

Anything above and beyond that, I'm a complete blithering idiot. You know when you'll figure it out? When you have grandkids. That's what I think. I think you'll fully understand, and that's why all grandparents just smile. See, I don't want to figure it out. I'm looking forward to torturing my own kids with their kids. I want to come over to their house and say,

hey, it's date night. Go out. And Stacy and I will come over. I'll load the kids up with sugar. Yep. Leave every light on in their house. Leave the doors wide open. Hey, you guys want to watch another movie? Yeah. Stuff food wrappers in their couch in the cushion cracks. Yep. I'm looking forward to enjoying it.

Hide one or two shoes out of their closet just around the house. And then go into their sock drawer and steal one of every pair. Just one. And just let it... Just take the phone call when they call and say, I think my kids are kleptomaniacs.

I think you're right. So what we're saying is that... The advice you get today on this show is going to be worth what you pay for it that's right and we're a mess so it's okay if you're a mess and that's what this show is about because we've all made messes and so whether it's uh a work mess or money mess or relationship mess uh john we've done it oh man and and there's no shame in your game that's what you and i love most about what we get to do is hey come on man it's okay i promise in most cases you haven't messed it up worse than i have occasionally i take a call and think now that's good nick you overdid it

well played man here is the line you went way over but but often man we are just walking along side people hey you got some exciting stuff coming. Are you allowed to talk about that yet? I don't know where you're going with this, but I like that you're going there. Am I allowed to talk about what? About your big project that's about to – Well, yeah, I can tease it. We're developing an assessment right now, and we've written a big book that basically the two things together are going to help you discover what you were born to do in your work. Is it possible, John, that you were created to actually contribute to this world through your work? I thought we were supposed to just sit at home in cash checks.

No. No, see, work is not this utilitarian thing you do to make a paycheck to live. We actually believe, I know you and I believe this, and Ramsey Solutions believes that work is a way that we can contribute. Meaning we were given talent, and we all want to do something that matters to us, and when we figure out that that, in large part, from a professional purpose, is work. Now, that doesn't mean that you are your job, and it doesn't mean that your self-worth is tied to your salary.

What it means is that we all long to contribute, and we've been given talent long to contribute and we've been part of talent yes and we want to work to contribute don't just work for a paycheck so we're working on an assessment that is going to be able to when you walk through it you're going to come out knowing what you do best what work you love to do most and the results that you want to put in the world. I'm jacked about that. So one of the cool things when you work in any place, right, is somebody has a new idea about a thing, you know, and you can hear their idea, and then people kind of roll their eyes when they're not around, and they say, oh, yeah, that's Tom again.

There he goes. He's got his idea. And then occasionally somebody's got an idea, they're working on a project. They're walking through something new, and there's a buzz about it. And so when Ken's not in the room, people are talking, hey, we're reading drafts of this book. It's incredible. This is going to be a game changer for folks who are stuck or who think that the goal in life was a paycheck or a salary or a title or a thing.

Oh, yeah. Or I don't know what to do, and I don't have any path on how to get there. Oh, yeah. You're foreshadowing the book, which will come out in November, and I'm excited about that. It's the guide up the mountain to that professional pinnacle. Is it possible to make the income you need and the impact you want? The answer is yes. Just like there's seven baby steps,

we have seven stages to doing work that you love, that you were born to do. So that's coming out November. The buzz internally behind closed doors is that it is outstanding. That's very nice. That's very nice.

We're very excited about it. You know what else we're excited about? Taking your calls, folks. Give us a shout. 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. Life, money, your relationships, your work, all of it. Give us a shout. We're ready to go. 825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. Life, money, your relationships, your work, all of it. Give us a shout.

We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Your number one wealth building tool is your income. For business owners, this comes as no surprise, as you're used to putting in extra hours and watching your bottom line. That's why Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, is a great option for those who are faith-focused and budget-conscious. CHM is not health insurance. Rather, it's a health cost-sharing program.

It's not harder, but it is different. To learn if CHM is a fit for you or your business, visit chministries.org slash budget. This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. Let's go to Abby out in Wisconsin. Abby, what's going on? Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

You got it. What's up? I was just looking into I guess it's a career question. I went to school for precision agriculture. So I have like a one year degree and then I have an associate's degree in ag business. and I really am

passionate about going to find a career in precision agriculture it's just really rough finding a job out here for that right now um I did have an interview a couple months back for a position for that position at a company and um then I never really heard anything back from that. They ended up choosing someone else. I'm like, I'm not sure where to go from here. What is precision agriculture? I grew up around ag, and I've never heard that term. It is like the technology and the equipment.

So we're dealing with GIS or GPS systems, like variable rate applications, all that stuff. There you go. That's still above my head. So they're driving tractors with GPS systems now. We're outsourcing farming now to satellites and computers. Okay. And so are you the person that works on these machines, the technology, when it breaks? Or are you developing new technology?

Yeah, I do electrical diagnostics, helping install the systems, and basically just showing people how to use them. Okay, all right. And then tell me why it is hard to find work out here, is what you said. What does that mean? What are the factors that's creating a lot of the jobs that there isn't really much available in my area and then a lot of the jobs are like kind of further away and i don't really have the option to move why because well i have my two-year-old daughter here with my boyfriend and so we don't we aren't really looking to relocate. Well, okay.

So herein lies a problem. So the good news is you know what you want to do, and you know why you want to do it. But the challenge is you're going, Ken, I don't know how to get there. What do I do next? And so we're going to have to start to prioritize. Unless I'm missing something. Unless I'm missing another factor.

So I want to repeat this. The reason that you aren't willing to look in other places is because you don't want to relocate. Correct? Yep. And so you have a limited option or limited options where you live now. So that means you either get a day job and the way I define a day job, Abby, is you're just doing something. It's not a dream job. It's not even necessarily on the path to what you want to do, which you've defined. It's that precision ag work.

So that's one option is to get a day job and keep connecting, keep knocking on doors and just be patient to wait for an opportunity to open up in Wisconsin where you are. That's one option. The second option is that you say, all right, well, just because there's nothing here and the thing I want to do is kind of hard, I'm just going to quit. And I'm going to be an old lady and I'm going to be regretful that I didn't go after it. That's one option. I don't like that option, but that's an option.

The third option is you sit down with a boyfriend and go, hey, this is what I want to do. Where does that fit into our relationship? We got a child. We're not married. What's our relationship look like from a commitment standpoint? What about what does he want to do with his life? What's his professional purpose. You know your professional purpose. And we've got to sit down and talk about that. And maybe, just maybe, we decide to get uncomfortable and move to where an opportunity is. I think those are your three options.

Am I missing something? No. So why don't you want to move, Abby? I guess most of our family is in this area, so I've just kind of always planned on staying in this area. Okay. Are you willing to not do the work that you really want to do in exchange for being close to family?

I'm kind of on the fence about it, I guess. When anybody tells me you're on the fence, I go, you're not on the fence. You already know, Abby. You already know. You just don't want to admit it. So why don't you go ahead and just tell us? We won't tell anybody else. Which way are you truly leaning?

I don't know. Yeah, you do. Yes, you do. Don't lie on this show. I've always wanted this position since I started the program. And then, you know, I graduated a few years back, and I've just been, like, constantly looking every so often to see if there's anything available. Abby, why don't you tell us the why? You've got to train professional psychologists in Dr. Deloney. You've got me, who's used to doing these calls, too.

I can tell. I know what the answer is, but you've got to say it. I'm not going to say it for you. Tell me the why. Why have you longed to do this? Because I'm passionate about helping our farmers and people in the agriculture world. Let's go a level deeper. Why are you passionate about helping farmers in the ag community? Because it's just important to me about feeding our country and just being able to bridge that gap between my generation and their generation. There you go. I'm not going to push you any further, but what I want you to realize that I just did for you

is I want you to identify how important this is to you and your heart. This is deeply connected to who you are, yes or no. Yes. So I'm going to ask you again. Are you willing to say pass? I'm not going to go for that. I'm not going to do this thing that I've longed to do because I just want to be close to family. Are you willing to say pass?

What's the answer? Yeah. You are? Mm-hmm. You're willing to say, nope, I'm not going to do this. I'm just going to stay, and I'm going to just pick another path, and I'm going to stay near my family. I don't know.

Doc? I kind of felt like at first when i did get pregnant with my daughter i kind of felt like i i was like oh well you know this is this is what i'm gonna do all right you know what hold on you know what right now so i'm gonna get on right here and then john can correct me and and uh fix your emotions if i push you too hard I want you to go with me for just 30 seconds. Give me an example of an area that has more precision ag jobs. Give me an example. In a state, a city, how far away is it?

Give me a quick example. There's a lot more in the southern part of Wisconsin, and then there's like Iowa, usually. How far in that area of Iowa is that from where you are now? Give me a range. Let's do a drive. Probably like four hours. Four hours, Abby! You're willing to pass on what your heart has been telling you you've wanted to do for a long time because you don't want to make a four-hour drive?

You don't want to take your child four hours away from its grandparents? Really? Four hours? We're going to pass on your passion? take your child four hours away from its grandparents really four hours we're gonna pass on your passion yeah you do know you're just scared what are you scared of yeah yeah i know what are you scared of tell us i really don't know i'm scared of the unknown i guess there we go that works so talk about the unknown how old is your old is your daughter, Abby? She's two. Okay. So let's fast forward 18 years.

Your daughter looks at you and says, I have this dream that I want to go help people. I want to help a lot of people. Are you going to look at your daughter across the kitchen table and say, well, that's cute, honey, but we do briskets on Sundays, so I'll see you next Sunday. Would you do that to your daughter? Probably not.

Let's say 100% not. You wouldn't do that. Especially if you said, I'm going to move a few hours down the road and I'll still drag myself up here. Think about your, kids learn by watching us, okay? And so the example you can set for your kid is,

man, you have dreams. You want to be a part of something bigger than you. You want to be a part of the agricultural transformation of the United States. And I'm on the ground floor. I'm one of the few people that know how to do this. I grew up in ag. I know those people. I know their hearts.

And I know where this thing's going. I can be a part of that transition. Or we all just go to Sonic after the game. And so that's what we're going to do for the next 35 or 40 years. And let me tell you something, Abby. If you don't do this and your excuse is family and it's an excuse because you're afraid, you're going to end up resenting the very people that you're trying to make happy. I'm telling you, don't get to the end of your journey and regret.

Get to the end of your journey and reminisce on the life, the adventure that you led. Move, Abby. You got to go. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. 888-825-5225 888-825-5225 Taking calls on money, life, work that matters.

I'm John Deloney, joined here by bestselling author Ken Coleman. 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Shane in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Shane, what's going on, man? Oh, not too much. How are you guys doing? We're good, brother. How can we help? Yeah, so I guess the question that I have is in regards to student loans

and kind of how I should think about structuring my life and that kind of thing. You went from student loans to how do I structure my life? They got real tactical to existential. We'll do what we can. Go for it. Right. So I'm 41. I make not quite $58,000 a year at the moment, and I have $165,000 in student loan debt.

Whoa. What did you get degrees in, brother? Architecture. Are you in the field? I am. I'm in the field working toward my license and that kind of thing. Okay. How far away are you?

Two exams. Two exams. Oh, wow. What does your income do when you are fully licensed? Does it double? Is it triple? I guess it's kind of endless if you open your own firm. That's a question that I've been trying to figure out. The answer is very wildly either making what I make now or making somewhere close to 90 or 100. Are you clear? You don't have to tell us, but are you clear on what must be true for you to make 100? I think so. At least in the job that I have right now, if I were to make that much or near that much,

I would end up being in a project manager type role. And I'm not sure how long out that would be, maybe five or six years, if I had to guess. Yeah, here's the problem. We'll get to the money stuff in a second, but this is really important. You don't need to be thinking and you don't need to be guessing. You need to be knowing and you don't need to be guessing. You need to be knowing and you need to be doing. Do you understand what I'm saying? I think so. You have $165,000 in student loan debt.

Yeah. And you have a terrific education and you're two tests away from getting licensees. That's going to open up a lot. My point is you need to do more research and know what the path looks like to be a project manager in this current company or know what it takes to make $100,000 somewhere else. You need to know that, not guess, not think. That's what I'm making sure you understand.

What are the multiple pathways for me to make more money, for me to get promoted? Do you understand what I'm saying now? You need to know that. You can't just think about it. You can't guess. We know. How do we find that out, Shane? We start talking to people that are higher up the ladder than you are. They know because they've done it. Do you understand? Yeah. All right. What is the fear you have in finding out the exact precise path or location or destination? Is there a part of you that looks at that 165 and thinks,

ooh, I may not have a path and it's better just to not know? Why haven't you gone and just gotten the brass tacks on the numbers and the path here? So part of it has been I spent a few years in a life situation that was total garbage. Okay. So there was that. And then I'm finally getting through that. So now it's a matter of I'm finally in a place where I don't feel unstable all the time. Excellent.

So now I'm looking at the future, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to take on the amount of responsibility that would get me the job that pays the $9,000 plus. That's what I'm saying. It would be in a couple of years. I don't feel that I would be in a position in my personal life to take on that role at this time. You're being awfully cryptic. Be a little more descriptive. Because here's the thing, you've boxed yourself into a corner with $165,000 in debt. Right.

And so you got into a ring with a big fighter already and now you're trying to decide whether you want to actually fight him or not so in some ways that ship has sailed but i do understand having seasons of my life when i think i can't handle or i can't stomach the amount of responsibility it would take for x y i get that but you're being kind of cryptic when you say i don't know if i'm ready it's's going to be a couple of years, are you suffering from mental illness? Are you dealing with a divorce? Like, what are you working through? Yeah, there's mental illness.

And just, like, having the experience level, like, I'm not confident that I would be able to take it on. The job that I'm at now is bringing me along, and I am taking on more. But it's the kind of situation where to go from where I'm at now to the project manager position, my responsibility triples or quadruples. Okay. At the particular firm you're at, right? At the firm I'm at, but also just from colleagues that I have

and other jobs that I've been at, that seems to be the standard, is they're working all the time. They have a lot of responsibility. They're managing a ton of people. And I just don't, like I said, my responsibility would quadruple overnight if I were to do that today. All right. So that's fair. That's fair. And so here's the good news.

We'll walk you through how to get out of debt and walk you through the baby steps if you're not familiar with it. But understand this, that whether or not you're ready, and let's just assume that I get where you're going here, you're not ready for that, and it's going to take a little bit of time to be able to earn that responsibility. I totally understand what you're saying. It makes total sense. So in the meantime, we've got to go do something else. We've got to work a little bit more, get a second job, because we need to get out of this debt. You're 31 years of age, and you need to get out of this debt as quickly as possible.

So the best way to do that is to increase your income, because obviously we're going to teach you how to cut, cut, cut your expenses, rice and beans, and the whole nine yards, okay? But raising that income is also something that's going to allow this to go faster. That's exactly right. And here's the thing. I want you to remember two things as Ken walks you through this. If your boss, if your supervisor comes to you and says, we think you're ready for more, very few bosses are that altruistic, are just going to give you something.

The reason they would give that to you is because they think you're qualified or they think to be crass about it, they think you're going to make them more money. And so when somebody looks at me, here's a good example. When Dave and I were discussing me joining this team, one time we were talking about salary, negotiation, all that. And I said, Dave, you are asking me to take a job that I've never done. I've never been on the radio. And he looked at me and said, I think you can do it. And I remember leaving thinking, that sounds nuts, number one. But number two, he wouldn't shoot a hole in his own ship just because.

And so that confidence got me into radio school and practicing all those things that we had to do to end up being on the show does that make sense yeah so when you are in your dark seasons whatever your challenges are when you're in those moments i want you to remember your community defines your calling they're going to be looking at you saying hey we think you're ready for this and that often is somebody lifting your arms up in the desert, man. They are seeing things that you can't see, and it's good. Like Indiana Jones, you go trust them. You take that next step and that next step.

So go ahead, Ken. And by the way, it's like parenting. You're not ready for parenting either. It just happens. You just have to do it. Yeah. You have to do it. Okay, Shane, so assuming the only debt you have is the $165,000 student loan,

is that correct? Or do you have other debt? Yes. Okay. All right. So here's the deal. Baby step one, you're going to put $1,000 in a savings account. That is your emergency fund, $1,000. Okay. And then baby step two is we take on the debt. And so let's say you've got three different loans or two different loans. We're going to start on the smallest debt first, and you're going to attack it with everything you got, every extra nickel. We want to get your budget as tight as possible, cut, cut, cut, sell everything you can sell, get a second job, third job, whatever. And you're going to attack that smallest student loan. And once you pay that off, everything you've been paying into

that, you roll it over into the next largest one. And eventually, you're going to pay all of those off. Then you're going to move into baby step three, which is to put three to six months of your expenses in an emergency fund. That gets you to baby step four, where you begin to put 15% of your income away for retirement. That's where you go. Hang on the line. We're also going to get you the Total Money Makeover, Dave's bestselling book, that will go into further detail and walk you through this journey. Thank you for trusting us. Thanks for the call.

888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend Ken Coleman. Hey, Ken, I want to talk about that last caller real quick. We had a young man who was $165,000 in student loan debt. He is two exams away from being a licensed architect, making about $60,000. Then life hit him in the mouth, right? He's struggling with some mental health challenges.

He had some relationship issues. And to make the money he's going to need to make to pay this student loan off in a reasonable time frame, he now understands, whoa, that's going to be a lot more responsibility. It's going to be four times the workload. It's 24-7, 360, that kind of stuff. So it got me thinking about, man, I always wanted to be an executive at a university. That was a job. I was like, I'd plan that.

And so I built a world around that. I went and got the right credentials. I started working in these ways until I started spending time around executives. And I remember the moment when I thought, whew, I don't want that life, right? I don't want that job. I don't want that life. And it was an existential crisis for me because I'd spent years, money, time, all that, investing in this track. And when I got close enough to it, I thought, oh, man.

And then as I've worked with college students law students especially they get one semester away from you know law school and they say i i don't want to practice law right or i don't like this grind but i owe 150 grand what do i do can what do we tell people and i'm i'm this isn't a setup for the audience i'm i'm i'm wondering like what do you tell somebody when they realize oh man first thing i tell them is don't feel guilty be grateful now let me explain that don't feel some sense of shame or guilt like oh i didn't get it i missed it so i spent all this time and money thinking i was going one direction only to get there and realize i don don't want to do this. There's so much guilt and shame that people feel. So let's first address that.

I would go, hey, hey, hey, listen, it's okay. Yeah. I'm actually thrilled you figured it out now. Right. As opposed to never figuring it out or figuring it out and denying it. Yes. And biting your lip and spending a life of tremendous misery, which affects your personal life. everything that's why i do what i do by the way it's like i don't want people to just be miserable in a career so the first thing is is don't feel guilt or shame

be grateful that you figured it out and then go okay so that's the first thing so so there's that you were going to say something i was going to say and i want i reject the notion when people get through with a degree and they go on to do something else that they say I, quote, unquote, wasted all of. Not true. That's the very thing I'm talking about. Okay. So, yeah, you had this many professors. Think of that as you have this many bosses, this much community.

You learned a lot. It's in the rearview mirror. There you go. I mean, I could sit there all day long and tell you all the great things that you've benefited from. But that's the wrong narrative. That's why I'm saying no guilt, no shame. Be grateful that you figured Miriam. There you go. I mean, I could sit there all day long and tell you all the great things that you've benefited from, but that's the wrong narrative. That's why I'm saying, no guilt, no shame. Be grateful that you figured it out. Now, in his situation, let's take Shane,

our last caller. And this was not his situation, but you're setting up a point that, by the way, is very relevant. I get this call all the time on the Ken Coleman Show. So I say, look, if you don't want to go into architecture, we'll just use this example. Great. However, if you got $165,000 in loans, it might be a good idea to take two or three years and move forward, move up the ladder in architecture because you're trained for that. And it might be your best opportunity to make the money, the big shovel that Dave Ramsey talks about, to pay off the debt.

And we're only talking about two to three years. And while you're doing that, you might be able to cash flow the qualifying process for something else. And by the way, let's not assume that I got to go get another four-year degree. So let's just use a real life example. Let's say that somebody goes and does the architectural and they got $165,000 in debt. And they go, I don't want to be an architect. I'm miserable.

There's no way I can do that. Well, they can either stay in architecture and pay off the debt, or they can go, well, what do I really want to do? And let's just assume they figure out that they want to go into technology. And instead of building and designing buildings, they want to design software. Very similar parts of the brain, by the way. Right. Let's just assume that's what they say. And they go, okay, I want to be a programmer and design software or whatever. Okay, great. So the first inclination is they go, well, I want to be a programmer and design software or whatever. Okay, great. So the first inclination is they go, well, I'm going to have to go get a computer science degree,

which is running at about $160,000 to $180,000. I can't do that. I'm already $165,000 in debt. What do I do? Well, the Ken Coleman Show partners with Bethel Tech, which is just one of a ton of options. Bethel Tech will train you, me, anybody, in nine months to go from zero technology experience to where you're qualified to start making $75,000 a year with a path quickly to six figures and more. Whether it be a developer or technology engineer, whatever, they can do it. Nine-month program, less than 15 grand. That's just one example of, wait a a second i could get out of debt and cash flow a

bridge a transition to a new future so that's what i always do is say hey let's figure out where we want to go and then we decide which path we take to get out of debt and the temptation is to sit in the ash of what was and just be like well this is it i blew it so i got to stick with architecture no you don't. I'm sentencing myself to a lifetime of misery for one bad decision. That's exactly right. So first thing, no guilt, no shame. Let's be grateful that we figured it out.

Now let's get intentional. And stage one of my seven stages, the work you were born to do is get clear. Let's get clear on what it is we want to do. Second stage is get qualified. Third stage is get connected. And eventually we get started in stage four. So we may have to, and I want to be very Second stage is get qualified. Third stage is get connected. And eventually we get started in stage four. So we may have to, and I want to be very realistic right now. I don't want this to sound motivational. Oh, it's just three stages. No, it's hard work. And sometimes years,

right? Well, it took me seven years to get to Ramsey Solutions and then three more before I stepped into my dream job. So I'm at 10 years. A decade. A decade to get to my dream job. Now, in this case, it may take you two to three years to get out of debt. And now I would place, I would press pause, rather, on the journey if that's what it took. Because here's the deal. It's going to be worth it in the end. I may delay the transition to what I really want to do two to three years. But what's the alternative?

Never doing it. Never. And being stuck in debt for 25, 30 years of your life. That's right. Or dying with debt. So my wife has some friends, and they tell a great story. They were 35, and they were on a date,

and one of them said to the other, you know what? I kind of get kicked myself. I'm 35. I'd always wanted to go to law school, I mean to med school. Yeah. To which the spouse replied, I never told you, but I want to go to med school too.

And they were telling somebody and they said, man, we're not going to do that. We're not going to be out of school till we're 42. And that person wisely said this, you're going to be 42 either way. The only question you should be asking is, do you want to be 42 and a doctor or 42 and not a doctor? It's absolutely beautiful. Whoa! We're headed that way anyway, right? Absent a meteorite or a car wreck. So, man, what if we just started walking that away? I was 33 when I realized that it was not politics that was going to be broadcasting, but I didn't have a college degree, and I didn't hardly know anybody, and I didn't have any

experience, and I had three little kids under the age of three. That's my story. 33. 33, dude. Mine was finishing my dissertation thinking, I don't think this is what I want to do. Yeah. And we're all in. You know what that means?

Uh-oh. I've got to go take another class and another class, and here we go, the whole thing. And my wife said, I may not think I want to stick around for another day right where I have to walk this whole thing it's hard

sure it's hard but listen but you're going to be 42 either way here's the deal once you figure out that thing and by the way

there's multiple jobs and career paths that are your that could be your thing that's what I teach no Ken there's only one thing. What is the thing?

No, not just one thing. Just like there's one dream person like Titanic. No, it's not true. And by the way, here's how you know. As long as you're using your talent to do work you love, to produce results that matter deeply to you, ding, ding, ding, that's a dream job. So there's a lot of things. A lot of things you could

do so relax a little bit do the hard work own it but for heaven's sakes john i'm so glad you asked the question because there are so many men and women who feel like they blew it and they're stuck but they're choosing you know stuck is your choice everybody thinks well, this happened to me, I'm stuck. I'm not questioning what happened to you, but you're choosing to be stuck. You really are. Because I've gotten my car stuck before on the beach. I've gotten my car stuck in the snow.

In fact, this last snow we got in Nashville. And I could have just sat there and went, well, Stacey, I'm stuck. Gonna have to sit here until the snow melts or until somebody comes along this deserted area of the beach and digs me out. No, I got my butt out of the freaking car and I got down on my hands and knees. And dug it out. No gloves because I'm an idiot and dug myself out. Because it's the Rockies.

Because being stuck is your choice. And getting unstuck takes a lot of ugly action. Well, thanks for talking through that with me. Man, my heart's with Shane. Make some good choices, good folks. And be kind to one another. Stay tuned. That's in one hour in the books.

We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramseyshow.com. Thanks for listening.