The Ramsey Show - App - Are You Willing To Lose Your Job Over The Vaccine? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 18, 2022

George Kamel & Dr. John Delony discuss: How to handle a workplace vaccine requirement, Avoiding resentment, What to do with the house after a divorce, Quit waiting on the government to forgive your loans. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, your money, your boundaries, your mental health, your relationships, your career, all of it. We do it right in front of you here on The Ramsey Show. Open phones this hour, 888-825-5225 is the number to call. I'm George Campbell, joined today by my good friend, Dr. John Maloney, and together we hopefully can help you. That is the hope, John.

That's the hope. I see you milking this my good friend thing, but I'll take it. Thank you. Samantha is kicking off this hour. She's in Austin, Texas. Samantha, welcome to the show. Hi, good afternoon. Thank you guys for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I had bought a house a couple years ago when I was married, and since then I've become divorced. And so something that I've been trying to decide on is if I'm going to stay in the house or if I am going to sell it.

And then recently, I've looked more into it. And I actually, this week, put it up on a market or a listing with some real estate agents in our area and received a really good offer. But as I got the offer, I kind of am debating, I guess you can say. I want to sell it to pay off all the debts that I've incurred since getting the house. Yeah. Well, Samantha, I'm so sorry that you've gone through this, still going through this, grieving from this. That's one of the most difficult things a person can experience. Thank you.

How much debt do you have? So I have about $70,000 in debt. What is that debt? Yeah, $30,000 of it came from repairs that we did on the house over the last three years, and then the other $40,000 is student loan debt. Okay, and then what's your equity going to be? If you took this offer that you have in front of you, what's your equity? It would be about $15,000. So you'd still owe $20,000 after the sale? Yes. I would pay off definitely the repairs for the house so that I could get rid of it altogether and then just keep the student loan debt, like pay off most of it and then have that about $20,000 left.

What do you do for a living? I'm a teacher. Okay. So you're about $55,000, $65,000 a year income? About $50,000. About $50,000. Okay. Mm-hmm.

Oh, man. Okay. So what's the financial picture look like with this house? Can you afford the payment? Did you refinance? Yes, I actually did refinance from a 30-year mortgage to a 15-year mortgage just a little bit after the divorce. And it puts a lot more towards the actual house payment versus the interest. What's the percentage of your take-home pay that the mortgage is going towards?

I pay $900 to my mortgage and my take-home pay-home pay is a little over $3,000. Okay. So your debt-to-income ratio is an emergency, but it's not caustic. You know what I'm saying? It's not like you make $50,000 a year and you owe $300,000, right? You owe $70,000. It's a lot, and you're going gonna have to work really hard it's gonna take you a while to pay it all off but but i also on the other side understand um from just sitting

with people for years when you have the loss of uh somebody passes away that you love like your husband or your wife right when you have a divorce and you have these major events, there's something about, I need everything to be different now, right? I need to change it all. And I'm getting from you, and you tell me if I'm wrong, push back on me, that you don't love this house, but if you sell this house, your old life is official. It's over. There's a period at the end of that sentence.

And you know that you need to do that, but you don't really, it's so hard to actually walk out of that funeral home. Am I right or wrong? I didn't look like that. I mean, I can definitely see how that's right. I think there's a part of me that loves the house because we've put so much into it. But there's also, the key word there is we, right? And this was our house, and now it's just my house, and there's something weird about that.

George, I won't – I think this is one of those rare moments that you do what's best for you. Yeah, I mean I'm looking at the financial picture, and I'm going with rent right now, if you sold this thing, you're paying $900 right now. You're going to jump to 15, 1800 to go rent somewhere and trying to find another house. I mean, what are the home prices in your area? Could you even get something else? You're in Austin, it's bunkers. And you're in debt, so you have no money. So you're going to have to rent. So I imagine rent is more than $900 in Austin right now. Can I add to that? Sure. So I would actually go and live with a relative, and so it would basically cut what I'm paying in half,

like including utilities and all that, my monthly cost for housing. Is that a good move, or are you running to something or away from something? Oh, neither. It was just I was trying to figure out what I could do financially, because I don't want to be in debt, and it all sort of came on within the past three years, because before I only had my student loans. I mean, I like that option if it's a good relationship

and they're okay with it, but I would set boundaries for what this looks like. This is not a forever thing. Hey, one year from now after I move in, I'm going to move out because I'm going to have my debt paid off and have an emergency fund. Or we're going to do this for 18 months. I'm going to pay you this. When do you want me in? We're not going to have dinner every night together. I'm busy. I'm a teacher. Also this summer, I'm going to get a second job and work like a maniac because I'm going to get this debt paid off. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah. Okay. So here's what I'm thinking, Samantha. If you've got that situation, I'm going to sell the house. Then you're going to have $20,000 left on the student loans. You're going to then pay those student loans off very quickly and save up three to six months in an emergency fund. Once you do that, I think then we need to go, okay, we're going to leave. We're going to fly the coop. We're going to go rent somewhere. We're going to start saving up a down payment while we're renting. And we're going to take the extra jobs. We're going to tutor on the side. It's going to be a grind regardless. Or I'm going to repaint the living room myself. I'm going to repaint the bedroom myself. And I'm going to stay in this house. I'm only paying

900 bucks a month. It's continuing to appreciate. Everyone on planet Earth is trying to move to Austin right now. So I'm in a good spot, but I need some healing. But I can do that here. I think it's a question that you've got to answer. I'd love to see you do the math on this. What is actually playing $400 a month, $450 a month?

How much faster would this speed up my process? How much faster is that going to get me out of debt, save up three to six months of emergency fund? How is that going to work for me versus staying here? Yeah. Either way, there's going to be a lot of sacrifice in the next two, three years of your life. But man, it will set you free. If you can go either way and get rid of this debt and have that weight not hanging on your

shoulders on top of a recent divorce, you're going to be a new woman and you're going to have a new picture of what life for Samantha looks like in Austin. I hate this for you though. I hate that you're here. Yeah. Thank you so much for the call, Samantha. We're pulling for you, especially for teachers, John. I know you have a big heart for teachers. It's a tough time to be a teacher, let alone a divorce teacher right now. Yeah. It's just, yeah, it's just a lot of rejection. Tough. And this is one of those mushy answers that it's either way, six way up does it another, what's best for you? But I get that there's a lot of emotion wrapped up in that house.

What I don't want is the foot goes off the pedal and we just get comfortable. There you go. So either way, this debt is going to be out of our lives sooner rather than later.

Thanks so much for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. at 25 i thought i was hot stuff but i was actually a hot mess. The good news is the dumb mistakes you make in the past do not determine your future. Your decisions today do. After going bankrupt, I set out to learn the right way of managing money, and I developed the Ramsey Baby Steps. Now, after three decades of guiding millions of others through the Baby Steps, it's clear this proven plan works. Right now, my number one bundle, the starter special, is 70% off and has everything you need to get rid of debt and plan for your future. In this bundle, you'll get our best-selling book, The Total Money Makeover, Rachel Cruz's newest bestseller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and her new money assessment, plus so much more. If you want to get

out of debt, build build wealth set your children up for success and plan for retirement here's where you start so order the starter special while it's 70 off at ramsey solutions.com that's Ramsey Show. All right, folks, if you've ever been to one of our live events, you know they're a starting point for huge life change. These are sellout, action-packed events, and it's time to bring them back on the road, and we are not holding back this year. First up, we've got Building Wealth Live.

It's coming to Orlando on Thursday, May 19th, and this thing is selling fast. So if you're waiting around to buy your ticket, don't do that. It's going to sell out, and you'll want to stay tuned because we'll be announcing cities for five more of these Building Wealth events very soon. We're also bringing our largest event of the year to Dallas

on October 22nd. That's right. Smart Conference is back. There's really no better way to spend a Saturday than gathering with a community of people who are all motivated to make a real change in their lives. That's what Smart Conference is all about. Don't miss it, guys. I'll be at both of those events. John will be at both of those events. We're going to have a great time. And if you want to learn more about them, visit ramsaysolutions.com slash events. We would love to see you in your community on the road. All right, let's go to Celeste. She joins us in San Diego. Celeste, welcome to the show. How are you doing? Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm 32 years old. I have an extra $30,000 saved. What do you think I should do with the money? I have a student loan of about $15,000,

a car loan of about $20,000, and then a mortgage, but no IRA, no 401k, just trying to figure out, get ideas about what next step should be. Sure. Well, I appreciate the call. How long you been listening to us? For a very long time. So I do know about the baby steps and, you know, just kind of reluctant in paying off the, just the car loan and student loans, because with the student loan, I don't know whether or not there's actually going to be student loan forgiveness, so I'm holding off on that. With the car loan, it's just, you know, sometimes it's nice to be able to see kind of that 30 cages sitting there.

Celeste, you're looking at everything through some rose-colored glasses right now, So it's nice to be able to see kind of that 30 cages sitting there in case there's a lady. Celeste, you're looking at everything through some rose-colored glasses right now, and I want you to look at reality. All of that hard work that you're putting in is keeping you broke because you're making those payments to lenders every month, and there's just as much of a chance as a crater taking us all out as there is of you getting those student loans forgiven. I mean, it's 1%. That's the actual number of people who have applied and have actually gotten forgiveness is 1%. So do you have any money in savings right now other than the $30K? Is that everything to your name?

About $30K, yeah. Okay. So I want you to follow this plan not because we're so right, but it's because the plan works every time you work it. So $1,000 of that we're going to keep in the savings. $29 of that we're going to throw at the debt in order of smallest to largest. So it sounds like the student loans are gone today, and most of the credit card debt is gone today, right? Mm-hmm. Leaving you with $6,000 to pay off.

What's your income? About $92,000 to pay off. What's your income? About $92,000. Heck yeah. Celeste, you're debt-free like in a month and a half. So $92,000, you've got some freed up payments, right? Because you got rid of the student loan debt. You got rid of most of the credit card debt. And so that $6,000 is going to be gone really fast.

Then we're going to build up three to six months for emergencies in a savings account. And then we can move on to investing. So I know you said you don't have an IRA, 401k. You're 32. You've got a good 30 years left to invest and become a millionaire. And you'll get there. But we got to start doing things in order on purpose. And right now we're kind of just floating and hoping and maybe this will happen. And I kind of like seeing the money over here. And it sounds like you're comfortable with your financial situation when you really should be angry at it. But two things, okay? Can I give you two hard pieces of reality?

Here's hard piece number one. You are renting your perceived security, that $30,000 you see in the bank, you're renting that feeling from your car loan people and from the credit card people and from the higher ed loan folks. So whatever you're paying in interest, whatever's accruing, that's the monthly charge for you to go, oh, but look at that $30,000. It's so cute. It it keeps me safe and so you're paying for that okay it's costing you money the other thing and this is i've i've had a close friends in higher ed who are professors who argue with me about this this is my take on the student loan thing i when i went to college was a uneducatedyear-old, and I took out a bunch of loans.

Then I went to grad school. My wife went to grad school. We kept going to grad school. We kept taking on more loans to the tune of six figures, a lot. I didn't fully understand what I was getting into, and by I didn't fully, I had no idea what I was doing to my long-term life. And I looked at somebody and said, if you will help me get through college, I'll pay you back. I signed my name to that paper and said, I owe you this money. And so for me paying loans back instead of like, I'm waiting on this thing. It wasn't that. I have some of my law students. They specifically went into different forms of law

that pay way less money because they want to serve their communities. That's a different thing because they shook hands with the government and the government has completely screwed them on that deal. But for the rest of us who are just like, well, I heard it's going to go away, so I'm just going to sit on it.

I went back to the mirror. It's an integrity issue for me. I said I'd pay you back, and so I'm going to to sit on it. I went back to the mirror. It's an integrity issue for me. I said I'd pay you back. And so I'm going to. And so waiting around, are they going to punt it? Are they going to move? Just get rid of it. You said you'd pay it back. You got the cash, pay it back and be done with your life. And if you pay it back and then Monday Biden comes out and he's like, you're all free. You can go, oh, that sucks. And then you're going to go about your life, move on. You know what I mean? And you're going to know I was oh that sucks and then you're gonna go about your life move on

you know what i mean and you're gonna know i was a person of integrity i did what i said i was gonna do i paid back the money that i was owed and then i'm gonna move back on with my life very similar to when dave declared bankruptcy which is legal all his debts went away and then he started this business and he made a bunch of money he went back and paid them all back because he said i said i was gonna pay you that's the right thing to. So that's a not popular opinion when it comes to higher ed. I know people got ripped off and signed up on things they did. I get all of that. And I'm not against forgiveness. But right now you got the money and you said you're going to pay him back. And so I say pay him back and move on about your day. Yeah. You're in a great situation, Celeste,

with the fact that you've got a great income and you actually have money. Most people who call in are making $30,000. They have $0 to their name and they have $35,000 in debt. So take advantage of the situation by being done with this debt forever. And I see myself in Celeste because when I was 24, I had $40,000 in debt and I didn't even make half of what Celeste made. I made like a third of that, and I got out of debt in two years, which tells me Celeste can do it a whole lot faster, especially with this chunk of change she has. That's right. Good stuff.

All right, let's go to Kelly in San Diego. Kelly, welcome to the show. Hi, John. Hi, George. How are you guys doing? What's up? How can we help? So I'm 22 years old, and my question is,

I went to a university for a year and then some community college, but I just really don't think college is for me, but I do really want to be successful. I think I have a pretty good working background for my age, but I don't really know what I want to do in the long term, and is it even possible for me to be successful without a degree? Yes, absolutely. That was easy. So no, you don't need to go to college, but yes, you do need to figure out what that thing is

and get the right education and skills to do that. If you want to be a surgeon, a nurse, a doctor, an engineer, an architect, you need to go to college. If you want to be a famous writer, that will give you a leg up. There's a lot of things you can do. College really is great for you. One of the myths we have right now is that you should pay $100,000 and just kind of fishtail around and figure out what it is on the way.

Just vibe it out. Yeah, just vibe it out. You're in a position right now that I think it'd be great if you have no idea what you want to do, which I don't think that's true. I bet if we pressed on it a little bit, if Ken was here, he could drill down real quick. You probably have some things that you love and that you're really good at. I'd love to see you work really, really, really hard over the next 12 to 18 months. Get around some people who are ahead of you in some jobs. See what that's like, what management's like, what student smaller stuff's like. And then it will begin to shape what

you actually want to do. Hang on the line here. We'll give you a copy of Ken's career assessment. Get clear. Get clear assessment that kind of helps you. Hey, what do I want to do? And we'll give you a copy of his bestselling book, From Paycheck to Purpose, that kind of walks through how to find this job that I love. I mean, the data is true. You go to college over the long run, you're going to make more money, you're going to do some stuff. But there's a bunch of jobs, millions of jobs, that are desperate for people that require no higher degree.

The data also shows that people are broke, even with their degrees and great jobs, because they can't breathe with student loan payments. So you don't need to go to college. Hang on. Kelly's going to pick up. She'll get you from Paycheck to Purpose and the Get Clear assessment. Appreciate the call. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. You hear us say all the time, folks, that everyone needs a will. And it's true.

It's a basic adult responsibility. And there's no good excuse not to have one. The fastest, most cost effective way to get your will taken care of is by doing it online. And a lot of folks ask us a simple, if a simple online will is right for everybody. And I get that. What if you need a trust or a mirror will? What about powers of attorney and all kinds of things? Well, to help you answer those questions, our team built a really simple, easy quiz that will help you decide on the right option. You'll get custom results based on basic info,

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All right, let's go to the phones this hour. Caleb joins us in Indianapolis. Caleb, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you guys doing? What's up, man? Oh, not much. I had kind of a career question are you guys doing? What's up, man? Oh, not much. I had kind of a career question for you guys. I started a new job about two months ago.

In that time, I've been fully remote. The day, actually, not the day, but the week I started, the company instituted a booster requirement. Okay. But since we've been fully remote, we haven't really enforced it. However, today, they basically said a month from today, everyone has to be in the office two days a week and they are enforcing the booster um so i'm just kind of at a crossroads like i i'm not boosted i'm trying to figure out kind of the best way to handle this especially being so in so new into the role just kind of the best way to go about this.

So, man, I've had this conversation a lot over the last, especially the last year. Here's the simplest way to go about it. Do you want to get the booster and keep your job? Or do you feel strongly about not getting the booster and you're just going to need to go find another job? Yeah. And what I've found is any other angst you give yourself, any other rage, I get all that. Whatever side of this you fall on.

But any additional weight you bring to the conversation beyond answering those two questions is a choice for you. You're choosing to be more miserable. Don't do that. If you feel really strongly, I'm not doing this, great.

Go get another job. Just be in the market today. Start applying today. You got all weekend. Get after it. If you say, man, I hate this, but I'm going to go ahead and do it,

great. Then go do it with a smile on your face and then go on about your day. Anything other than that is a choice to be miserable. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that makes sense. It's, it's just difficult. Cause it was like, you know, this requirement was in place when I was going through the process, I wouldn't have even accepted the job. And then I was like, well, maybe I can make it work for, you know, as long as they'll let me. And then obviously today that kind of all blew up. So that's right.

Just trying to understand and also trying to make a clear decision, not obviously a little emotional, just, you know, the suddenness of it coming on today. But also understanding I have kind of a month long runway to figure out what I need to do. But just kind of wanted to get an outside opinion on kind of the best way to go about it. How old are you, man? I'm 26. 26. All right. So is this your first or second, third big job? This is my second job. I actually just left at the end of the year my first job out of college for this position. Okay. So the vaccine is a it's a lightning rod okay and you are wise beyond your years to say i want to i want to exhale a little bit and get some perspective but here's what i want to tell you for the rest of your life jobs you take are going to you're

going to you're going to start a job on monday and you're going to get re-orged on tuesday i started this job with no radio experience in an 18-month plan to learn how this thing works. And then COVID kicked off, and Dave said, well, congratulations, you're on the radio. We had to figure this out live. And, man, I've made a train wreck of a few things. And so then there's a re-org, and there's a this, and then, hey, we're not going to be able to do retirement funding matching this year because we're having – it's always going to be a thing and so and this is with all of your relationships all of your life there's always going to be a thing i'm living in a house and then the the county raises my taxes the i live in a country and now they require whatever

the thing is make the decision you're going to make and then be at peace with it and go on about your day don't choose to stew and spin and be angry and talk about it and call everybody and Facebook about it. That's just choosing misery. And that misery has a physical toll on your heart, on your brain, on your body. Don't do it. Just say I'm in or I'm out and I'm going to go on about it. And you're making grown up decisions with whatever, for whatever reason. Great, great man i'm proud of you um do you have somebody in your life that you trust you can sit down and talk to yeah i mean i'm married and we're we're in a good church too so so i would i reach out to a man that you trust not to say your wife's going to be your wife is is going to be team caleb um or maybe she's going to be absolutely

opposite team caleb if you're in my house um but find a man in your church there's 10 years down the road it's 35 40 and say hey can i take you can i take you out for coffee here's what i'm wrestling with i just started this job here's i'm thinking through and let them speak some wisdom into you and i'm not saying wisdom on what you should do, but it helps take the emotion out of this thing. We can look at this objectively. I do that when I get emotional about decisions and I still do, right? I get somebody that I trust to help me walk through it. I make the decision. I'm on about my day, man, just because I'm not going to choose to poison myself. Does that make sense? Yep. Caleb, I'm less emotional than John. Definitely helpful. Yeah. So I'll walk you through a different scenario here. How much do you make right now?

With a bonus, I'm at 101. Wow, way to go, man. 101 at 26 years old, you're crushing it. So tell me this. Here's how I look at it. If someone said, hey, if you get the booster, I'll give you $101,000 a year forever. I'd be like, okay, well, now it's a decision to consider. But if you say, hey, my principles, my values, tell me no, it's not worth that. Well, then we have to turn that

down and go, okay, I got to go find to work somewhere else that will hopefully pay me that much or more that will allow me to still have these values and beliefs. Does that make sense? So what's your line of work? I'm an accountant okay cool so in accountant world you can find another accounting job in indianapolis right that may have less you know less strict policies or you may or here's the thing your values may say i can't be in indianapolis anymore your values may say i can't be in this community like what you see what i'm saying so it's where these values go and they're your values. That's the beauty of them.

And I'm going to pick them, and I'm going to hold them firm, and then I'm going to go about my life, right? And, yeah, if the matrix is there's not a lot I wouldn't do for $101,000, then great. I just try to take the emotions out of it for a second and go, okay, let's look at logic on paper versus just the emotions. I think both are important. The other side is, yeah, I won't

work for a company who chooses to insert themselves into my life at this level. I don't want that sort of control. Great, man. Then be at peace with it. Yeah, and that's what I've been struggling with. It's like, if you can't trust me to make a medical

decision for myself, how can you even trust me to do my job correctly? that's i think that's really like what i've been wrestling with on the flip side of it so here's what i want to i want to really caution you against okay i'm glad you mentioned this there's a it's an old psychological principle called the fundamental attribution error okay it's when you get inside somebody else's head and try to decide for them why they just did what they did. And then you respond to your perception

of why they did what they just did and you get mad about it or angry about it or happy about it or whatever. So what I'll tell you is, get out of people's heads. Whether it's your wife, whether it's your workplace, just look at the policy on the paper.

They're asking me to do this. This violates my values. I got a month. Cool, I'm out the policy on the paper. They're asking me to do this. This violates my values. I got a month. Cool. I'm out. Have a great week. Here's a micro version of this. You walk in from a hard day of accounting and your wife left her shoes by the door again, and you trip over them and you can think, she just did that to make me. You could get in her head and think that, or you could say, man, my wife is probably really exhausted and something must be going on. I'm going to pick these things up and I'm going to do the dishes too. So you get to pick how you respond here.

I'd say get out of your company's head. They don't trust me. Nope. They have nothing to do with you. They made a policy. Just say, am I going to follow this policy or not? And then I'm going about my day. One of those choices is filled with anxiety and one is just freedom. This is life. What am I going to do this policy or not? And then I'm going about my day. One of those choices is filled with anxiety, and one is just freedom.

This is life. What am I going to do next? That's right. Yeah. Well, good luck with the decision, Caleb, no matter what you end up with. But you're crushing it, man. $2,600, $100K, not so bad. I'll take that.

This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Dr. John Deloney. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 10.23. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. Henry David Thoreau said, None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. Wow, that's really good. Good stuff, Henry.

Wherever he is today. Good stuff. He's not here, George. I know. I know. It was a joke, John. Thoreau just sounds like it's from the 1800s. It does. So there we go.

Let's go to the phones this hour. Devin joins us in Wichita. Devin, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. How are you guys doing today? Great. How can John and I help? I just had a question about the feeling of resentment towards my stepbrother and his

girlfriend when they finance cool items and me and my wife save up over time for those same items. Hey, can you, Devin, talk directly into your phone there for me. Sorry about that. There we go. There you go. Okay. Say that again.

So you have resentment towards your brother and your sister-in-law because they're financing things, and you save up for things and paying cash. Yes, him and his girlfriend. Are they financing things through your bank account? No, just it's the idea that they have cool items now when me and my wife are saving up over time for those cooler items later on. What's a cool item? Well, they just bought a house and they're both 22 and we're still saving up for a down payment.

And I know that they loaned a down payment, so it's technically not a down payment. But now they're talking about getting cool cars and whatnot. A few weeks ago, so one cool thing about working at Ramsey is there's a lot of people have, like, this is like a sugar addict's nightmare. There's lots of bowls of candy around this place. And so I grabbed a handful on the way out from somebody's desk, and I took it home to my kids. I've got an 11, almost 12-year-old, and a 6-year-old. And my 6

year old is allergic to peanuts and things and so I gave my 11 year old several pieces of candy. And all I had for my 6 year old was just a little bit so I gave it to her. And she's 6. And she said

but you gave him you gave Hank this stuff. I said, yeah, I know, and I brought you this. I'm trying to keep you alive. I'm trying to keep you from being dead. And in her six-year-old sweet little mind, there was this great injustice

that had just happened. And I tell you this because she was six! Six! As a country, we have decided that we don't let her vote or buy guns or drink beer because she's six. So fast forward to you, brother Devin. Why is this getting into you so much? You and your wife are working hard. You're doing right. You're trying not to end up on the side

of the road, which is where your other family members are clearly going to end up like why is this getting in your soul so much because you're not six well we've we both grew up in families where financing was just a normal situation okay um so we've always grew up around nicer cars or finance cars so they were were always, you know, year, maybe two years, um, from new. And ever since I took your guys's course in high school, and, um, ever since we got married last year, uh, we've been living, we've never been in debt before me and her. So we've never had any kind of loans or nothing. So it's always been saving up and saving up always takes longer than, you know, it's easy to just go finance something so seeing we're really close to my stepbrother and his girlfriend um so we're constantly hanging out with them and whenever we go over to their house and they start talking about how they're going to go here in a couple months they're wanting to go buy a brand new jeep

for his girlfriend and whatnot you know it sounds awesome and I know that when we leave their house, we're going, well, it's pretty stupid that they're doing that. It's still that feeling of that they're going to have it though. And it's pretty cool. So it's just weird. Devin, have you heard this quote from Carrie Fisher? Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die. That's what's happening right now. You're on a different journey. If you didn't know your brother, you'd have no clue if he had a paid-for house and a paid-for car or if he was drowning in debt.

So when I pull up to someone at the stoplight, my Honda Civic, it's an 09 with body damage, and the guy next to me is driving a brand-new Tesla. I don't know his financial situation. He doesn't know mine. He doesn't know I have a paid-for house and have no debt. It doesn't matter. You could say, that's a really rad car. And I do. I say, man, it would be nice to have a Tesla, but I don't have the money.

And then I'm on with my day. I'm poking at you, Devin, but here's the honest truth. We do get this call a lot, and we have this conversation a lot. People make this journey all about the numbers, the dollars and cents, the savings, the things we're giving up. And if you do that, your identity ends up in ash because everything in your life is about the stuff we don't have. So the challenge moving forward for you is to flip the entire way you're looking at this around. You found an incredible partner.

You found a great wife that is on the same page with you spiritually, psychologically, financially. Y'all are working towards something, and it's hard. And yes, it's cool to ride in a rad Jeep. It is. You know, it's not cool when they tow it away cause I can't afford it or cause they broke up. It's super cool to live in a fancy house. It is not cool to be pacing the house cause you don't know how you're going to pay your bills. And I've been there. I've done that where my wife's asleep and I can't breathe.

I'm about to throw up and it's two o'clock in the morning cause I don't know how we're going to pay our bills. And so I want you to flip this thing around and not look at the debt-free journey as an adventure in crap you don't have. But I want you to flip it around and say we are on the adventure of a lifetime to make sure that nobody in Devin's family tree ever deals with this stuff again. You see what I'm saying? It's an entire identity shift. Your actions day to day will actually be very similar. You're not going to borrow money. You're going to keep saving for

things. You're going to pay stuff off as it comes. You're going to keep doing the same things, but why you're doing it is so different. Not because we're just not going to have stuff, but because it stops with us. Those people who think they're better because they drive fancy cars they to have stuff, but because we are making, it stops with us. Those people who think they're better because they drive fancy cars they can't afford,

who live in houses they can't afford, who co-sign on things with their girlfriends, which is just a disaster. You get what I'm saying, Devin? Well, here's what I want to do, Devin. I want to send you a copy of Rachel Cruz's book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs, because what this comes down to is comparisons.

And you're going, well, I'm not where they are. Dude, you're way ahead. It just looks different because you're looking at things that aren't real because it's all finance. They don't own any of it. And that's okay. You can still love them. You can hang out with them in their beautiful house and ride in their nice cars. You go, hey, man, that's your journey. If you want to know what I'm up to, how I became debt-free and how we can do all these things over here let us know and if not that's cool I'm still your brother yeah it's just it's not about the shiny stuff and this is all about an identity shift yeah but this is a real crisis I think for this generation especially for the younger ones I well it's so much easier to crush our parents too I mean that's kind of where we got into all this it crushed our parents too oh I can build this

bigger house look they've got two cars like I grew up we only had of where we got into all this. It crushed our parents, too. Oh, I can build this bigger house. Look, they've got two cars. Like, I grew up, and we only had one family car. And then all of a sudden, it was like, well, the neighbor's got two. Right? So it's been this way forever. They've got that. We should get that. And it's been keeping up with the Joneses, right?

That's been forever. The problem now is the Joneses are international because we've got these digital boxes. So everyone's a Joneses, right? You scroll, and you're like, I'll never be enough. Yeah. I'll never amount to anything. And I used to be able to see my neighbor's two cars, but then I would see, like, I don't really enough. Yeah. I'll never amount to anything. And I used to be able to see my neighbor's two cars, but then I would see like, I don't really want their life.

I don't get that. And I get the curated version. So I get where Devin's at. I get it. I get it. But man. When you can make that shift and go, man, I'm so grateful that we don't have to make any payments.

I'm so grateful to have this level of contentment and where we're at in the journey. And that sacrifice builds character. Yeah. And that character will carry you through the rest of your life. So there's a great thing I learned. I ran track in high school, a little bit in college.

Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Yeah, that was my lo-fi high school callback flex. What a flex. That's right. But I learned often, especially when you're training, not to race the people around you.

Race the clock. You're racing you. How'd you do yesterday? How are you doing today? Are you meeting the goals you set up today? And it's you versus that clock, man, which means it's you versus you. When you're on this financial journey, it's so tempting to look to your left and your right, your left and your right. It's about where you're headed.

You can't run like Usain Bolt, John, but you can beat John from yesterday. That's exactly right. And that is a race worth running. And that's the person I'm competing against. Well said. Love it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. My thanks to John Deloney, my co-host, James, Kelly, Ben, Zach, Nathan, all the folks in the booth, and you, America.

We appreciate you listening. We couldn't do this without you. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember to spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.