The Ramsey Show - App - Are You Willing To Trade Your Comfort Today For Peace Tomorrow?

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. That's why we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Triple-8-8-8-25-5-2-2-5 is the phone number. I'm going to warn the audience. This is a good warning, but I got a little extra juice today. So as a man of the people, and alongside the most fly co-host a man could have, Jade Worshaw.

What a high honor, Ken. You got the Lulu sweatsuit on in full effect. If you're not watching, you need to head over to YouTube because I always say she's fabulous and today you put the all caps fab in there so you can mess a run and drown off this wave you got the late 80s early 90s track suit vibe something going on so you're ready I don't even have to ask are you ready I thought I was and then I walked in I think I had a little extra juice now so a little little extra energy and I'm excited about it because Noah starts us off in Detroit the motor city the home of my mother Barb how about that I love Detroit let's go Noah how can we help today

Hey, Ken. How are you doing? Well, you can tell a little fired up today. How can I hope? I'm looking for some advice. I'm in my third year of college right now, going for a mechanical engineering degree, and I'm wondering if it's time to maybe switch pads and go into the family business and stop pursuing mechanical engineering. Okay. Now, I'm going to get right to this. Is this a hard question, Noah, or is a head question. And let me explain before you answer. If it's a heart question, not too long in the past, you started thinking about the business, the family, you want to be a part of

the legacy, there's something pulling you in and it's a positive emotion. Or if it's a head question, I got into college, pursued mechanical engineering. I don't think it's my jam. Not sure what I want to do, Jade. I think I'll do a fallback because I know that the nest is warm. So with that being a probably too long setup, Noah, is this a head question or a heart question? So I think it's more of a, I think it's more of a head question, but I'd say I wouldn't be doing it as a fallback. It would be more of looking at it as, you know, I've kind of thought of the business maybe as it would be a fallback, but I'm looking at my parents and they're doing really well from the business and doing well than I think I would be able to do as an

engineer and thinking that, you know, it could be, could be an opportunity that I look past. All right. I appreciate the honesty. I really do. And I'm going to challenge this. I don't, first of all, this is not a bad decision. You know, good head decisions work out. The reason I always delineate it that way, Jade knows this, is because what I don't want is for

you to wake up 10, 12, 15 years from now. and you're running the family business and it's been great financially yeah come on can get into it you know where i'm going i do know and you're doing well you've served mom and dad well they're proud of you you got a good life dare i say great life on paper but inside your soul has slowly seeped out of your body over the last 15 years because you took a sound a smart yeah financial choice that's why I always put it out that way. So again, okay if you go do it, but understand that you're going to have to make, if you make that choice, you're going to have to make some other choices to say then,

all right, I'm going to make sure that I'm serving in my local community. I'm going to find something outside of the family business that lights my heart up. And so that I am experiencing meaning as a person, not just a professional, who's killing it. Otherwise, you'll have that unfinished business when you look up. Yeah. I mean, what kind of work is the family business? What type of job would you be doing, specifically? They run a machine shop, so it's a smaller, smaller machine shop about four employees, including my dad and my mom. What do you think you would make? You said that the real primary reason for this is because he goes, I'll make more work in the family business,

running the family business than I would as a mechanical engineer. be a lot more. I was going to say, what are the numbers? What are you running? What's the difference? So, starting out, I mean, I would probably make similar to what I'm making now my part-time job in the low 20s, but I know that their profit is around 300,000. Wait a second. Wait a second. He's got a part-time job right now in school. But would you be making the same amount doing the same part-time work, or would it be full-time that you'd be making the same amount? Does that makes sense? No, same amount like per hour. Okay, okay. So, but that's just starting out. But, you know, I think starting out as a machinist, it would probably be similar pay.

I just, I think that the opportunity for that pay to increase is a lot bigger in the when you owed your own business. All right. So you were, okay, so you were listening to Jade and I. I was preaching. She was amening. I appreciate that, by the way. How did you receive that?

You're a young guy, your early 20s, or is that right? Yeah, I'm 20. All right, so what do you think in long term? When I said that, did it register and what was your head response? What was your heart response? My heart response was that I think no matter what I do, whether I did engineering or worked at the machine shop, I think that I would have to find that fulfillment outside of work. Yep.

I had that sense. Let me ask this question. What if you, let's pretend you get off this call and you're like, you know what, I'm going to work for the family business. you start working five years from now you look up and you say hey this is just not hitting the way i thought what would happen with the relationship dynamic let's play that out if you were to go to mom and dad and say you know what i know i'm here i know you guys depend on me i got to go my separate ways how do you see how do you foresee that something like that playing out would it mess up the relationship oh no i don't think so i think if if i without me stepping in and sort of

trying to maybe become like the next generation, I think they would probably end up closing when they retired anyways. So I don't think it would strain the relationship. All right, just for fun, okay? And just for fun, I mean this. What would you pick just as a big professional, wee? If I told you that you would be successful at it. Right now, what would you do? Not mechanical engineering, not running mom and dad's shop. What would you do? You liked that? Yeah, I do. I do that on purpose. Take you to a half. happy place. What would you try if you knew you couldn't fail and you knew you'd be successful at it and you knew you could change your mind? What would that be? Fill in the blank. Go.

Oh, instantly, I'd go go be a cattle rancher. Oh, my God. Okay. I should have asked this question a lot sooner. All right, so we got about a minute. Here we go. Really quick answers. What's keeping you from pursuing being a cattle rancher? I think the unknown. I don't know anyone who's done. Great. You ready? I've got you four questions. You got something right. with? Here we go. Four questions you've got to answer in the next week. And this will take away the fear of the unknown. Number one, what do I have to learn? That's what's the qualification process to eventually become a cattle rancher? What do I need to do? What's the experience piece? The first one is the education question. What do I need to learn? Second is what I need to do?

That's the experience piece. I've got to start out on the ranch, right? The whole nine yards, what do I got to do to get in? Third question is, what is it going to cost? me. What is that education and experience? The first two questions, what is it going to cost me? And then based on the cost, Noah, fourth question is the expectation question. How long will it take? So here we go. Quick review. A lot of people need this today. What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? How much will it cost? How long will it take? Jade, let me tell you something. Those four questions take away the fear of the unknown and it helps you decide to move forward. All right, let's go to Sheldon, who's joining us now in Salt Lake City.

Sheldon, how can we help today? Hi, how you doing? Good. What's going on? Good, good. Hey, so, yeah, I just had some crazy life changes in the last couple months. To put it shortly, I've been married, graduated college, had a death in the family, and then now laid off of the job. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, things have been kind of crazy. And what's the time period on this, like just a couple months?

Yeah, just since May. When did you get laid off? When did you get laid off? I got laid off about like a month ago Oh man, I'm sorry What laid off from doing what kind of work So I got laid off from machining I was in the manufacturing industry Interesting

And what are you doing now So right now This kind of leads into my question So I recently just got a new job As a quality engineer In Salt Lake City So my wife and I are going to relocate down there and we're wondering just because we're relocating our only car broke as well

so we just got a new car um we already had the we already had her car but my car broke down okay we just have one um and so we're wondering since one baby step two we want to pay off my my student loan debt but we also kind of need another form of transportation just in case this one takes so we're wondering if i should pay off my debt first or or get a new car. So there's one car family, it's her car. How old is it? Tell me about that car.

The car we have right now is a 2005 Toyota Corolla. Oh, that'll run until 3,000, here's 3,000. Yeah, do you have any problems with it now? Or is it running just fine? We have to replace the Cadet Converter on it, but we've been replacing so much stuff the past, yeah, a couple weeks. So we're like, we hope it, because it's a Toyota, it should be good, right? Yeah, I mean, it's going to need maintenance.

You're going to have to replace things over time, 2005. But do you feel like when you took it and it needed the work and you did the work, do you feel like that was the end of the laundry list for now? We hope so. We hope so, yeah. And have you gotten to Salt Lake City yet? You're there or you're about to go? No, we're looking for an apartment now.

Do you need a second car? I think I know the answer, but I have to ask. Yeah. So with that, like we're trying to find a place that I could possibly commute, you know, using the UTA, the tracks or something like that. So, so, but with the place that we're at now, it'd probably be in an hour, either take if I did take the tracks. Okay. So it might, yeah. And how much student loan debt do you have? I have 13,500. Anything else? Any other types of debt? Credit card debt, personal loans. Anything else? No. Just the 13,000? Yeah, we've been following the debt snowball.

Good. That's where I now. You know, you might be talking to the wrong one because when my husband and I paid off, we're working to pay off half a million, we sold our car and we were a one car family for a decade. And you just learn how to make it work. And I'm going to tell you why I did it because my sister started it by being a one car family and they had two kids and they did it.

And I said, well, if they can do it, then. and we can do it. And we kind of just got used to how things ran. And it was a decade before we got a second vehicle. You did it for how long after actually paying off debt? Uh, oh, seven, six years. Yeah, that blows my mind, by the way. That's great. Because I knew at that point, you know how to prioritize and you know what's important to you and you go for that. So for me, I'm going to tell you, I'm like, figure it out. Do one car until you pay off this 13,000. It's not that much. What are you going to be making at this new job? So with this new job, we're going to be making $72,000 with this new one.

So how quickly can you pay off $13,000 with you doing a new job, maybe picking up a little side hustle, maybe your wife doing a little something on the side as well. How quickly could you do that? Yeah, we'll probably do it pretty quickly a couple months. Yeah, then you can save up cash and you can buy something in cash. And then, of course, you know how it works. You save up some cash. maybe you buy yourself a little beater five or seven thousand dollars and then the way this works

guys when you buy cars that are that cheap by the way ken they're not losing a lot of value super fast they're kind of worth what they're worth at that point a hundred percent you know yeah and then what happens is in a year you save up a little bit more you put it with that cash and now you're driving a ten thousand dollar car and if it's a priority you save a little bit more and you put another three thousand before you know it you're driving a thirteen thousand dollar car that's how this works and if i'm going to be quite frank for the listening audience can When I first started listening to Dave Ramsey back in 2005, 2007, when I heard him say the idea of stopping with the car payments and paying cash for cars, that was probably one of two things that he used to teach that really, I wondered if the guy was all there. I was like, is what he's saying true?

I had a hard time wrapping my brain around it because you don't hear that every day. Over 40% of Americans have car payments. So there's part of that that it's like, wait, what are you saying? have a one car family pay off my car and then pay cash for the other one. Jaden, Kenner, are you smoking something? No, or not? Well, in this case, first of all, I love the advice. I was going to go that direction. I think in this case, because of the public transportation, because of their, they have such little debt. I love the idea of a young couple going in there, learning how to adapt. And I think the hour train ride both ways, I would use that as a little bit of penance to kind

to keep me motivated to get the 13 knocked out, to then save up for something. And I would use that to learn. I'd use that to journal. I would really use that time and learn the art, I think it's an art form, to learn the mental and emotional art of patience. Yes. And I think that's what I love so much about you and Sam and your story is that you figured it out. And it reminds me the old phrase, this is for the entire audience, whether your situation is different, but you're trying to get out of debt, trying to pay for a car, to save up, to make life a little bit more convenient. Here's the takeaway. Where there is a will, you know how it goes. There's a way. And I think that that is grandma wisdom. I think it's right. I think you and Sam proved it.

Yes, but let's not be, let's be honest with the people and tell them it's very easy to sit from our positions and say that. But for the person who's receiving that, it's emotional. because for so many of us, the car, the very car that we're telling you to sell is the car you bought yourself because you were celebrating the job you got when you graduated college, right? That was your retirement present that you can now no longer afford. So there is an emotional component where we go, wait a minute, Jade and Ken, that's easy for you to say, but I'm the one that has to go through this. It's not easy for me to say, I want to finish your point, but I want to push back on it.

But they think that because they don't know that we've done it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? They're hearing it going, well, you're on the other side. It's easy for you to say that now. But Ken and I understand that struggle. We know that it's an emotional thing. We know that it's hard to go home and try to tell your spouse, hey, by the way, we're selling the Tahoe and here's why. It's emotional when you show up for the holiday and your family's like, what happened to that catalog you guys used to drive? And you're like, oh, and you go through that mental thing of like, do I tell them that we're paying off debt. It's really none of their business. You have to do all of that in your mind. Ken, I talk about that kind of stuff in the book that I just came out with. what no one tells you about money because no one tells you that no one tells you hey this is a battle and if you can just come to the point of acceptance this is just part of the process the time will come when i can get that car i want again but for today like you said where there's a will there's a way and this is a short-term sacrifice for a long-term game well and i i love it love you said that but we are not speaking from this ivory tower i'm glad you point that out well because i think you got

you all need to understand that when we say this and i love that she's written this book because this is a book that you need if you're in a tough emotional spot because you're absolutely right we're not we're not robots we're humans and there is an emotional side to winning with money and i'm going to tell you though but that's where the will comes in because when we can say what is the desired future that we have and if i can focus more on how great that future will be it makes it yes it makes it a slight bit easier not easy, but a slight bit, not even easy. Let me say this. It makes it bearable. And you share a lot of stories in this book about it is bearable. You can bear the burden of the rough emotions. Well, it's all about reframing it and the fact that you're making a trade-off. It's not that you're missing out on something. It's not, oh my gosh, I don't get to have this. I don't get to go on trips. I don't get to drive the car I want. I don't get to have my free time because I have to side hustle, right? It's about refraud. Re-firm. framing is as a trade. I'm trading something that I want now for something that I want most, which is a future without stress and debt and payments and to be able to actually do the

things that I say are important to me. So just, I mean, she just absolutely unpacked so much of her story. Ramsey Solutions.com slash door. Pre-order it now. All right. So we were talking about Jade's book and what I love about the book, it's just not another money book. Now, a lot of you Ramsey folks, I'm just going to hit this head on. You're going, why do we need another money book from another money personality? Wrong question. Because this is not another one. What is it, Ken? Well, my personal take on it is, is it addresses the thing that we don't talk a lot about on the show.

Now, we give you the baby steps, they work. It is no argument. No argument, no question. And there are times where we as hosts, we will jump in on the emotion. I do as a non-money personality. I will try to listen for, what is the mindset, what's the emotional situation that I think is present in this particular call? but what you do in this new book, what no one tells you about money, and you're going, well, what is it? Well, I'm going to let you answer it. Yeah. What is it that no one tells us about money and you now doing this book? What is it? No one tells you that. Money is so emotional. We tell you all the time, money is connected to everything you do, right? It's connected to your career. It's connected to your relationships.

It's connected to your faith walk. It's connected to so many areas. Therefore, when people like Ken and I are saying, hey, make these change. changes. You are going to run up against those areas in your life where you have had prior experience that is now informing how you feel about money. Let me give you an example. You might be a person who can, you worked at a job for 15 years and they just up and laid you off. Happens all the time. And so you weren't expecting it. Yeah, maybe you could have done a better job handling your money, but now you're in a bunch of credit card debt, right? So you're calling here telling us about your credit card debt. What's at the core of that is there's a lot of

hurt about how you were treated, there's a lot of shame about the fact that over those 15 years, you could have done a better job managing your money. So there's a lot under the surface about how we are really feeling that's not just cut up your credit card and pay off your debt, right? That's right. And so this is talking to you about that. Or maybe you had a spouse who you were married to forever and they lorded over the money and they were controlling. And then they just up and left you. And it's taking you years and years to build back from that experience. And here we are, you know, all you need to do is, you know, list them smallest to largest, right? And we're right. You do need to list some smallest to largest. But what about the thing underneath that's making you feel like you got a raw deal? What's about what about the part underneath that's making you feel like, well, shouldn't my ex have to pay half of this? And that can block us. It can make us want to stop and go, wait. First, I need somebody to make it. I need somebody else to make this right. I need somebody to apologize to me. I need some. No, no, no. Let's work through the emotions. Let's accept what's happened.

Let's accept our role in it, whether it was teeny, teeny, tiny or really, really big. And let's get about the work of changing in and accepting what's going on, accepting the process of change and accepting the fact that this is going to be an emotional process and that's okay. Listen, it's the only Ramsey book to take an honest, deep dive look into the emotional side of money. And I'll tell you this from my standpoint, you know, I'm in the personal and professional growth space. So I could name names. I'm not going to. A lot of people in that space like to say things like just, just act your way into change. And I can tell you, how do you know somebody's full of crap?

They say stuff like that. Because here's what I know. Having coached over 10,000 people on the Ken Coleman show, thousands more here on the Ramsey show, you cannot act your way into change. It is emotion. And if you change the way somebody feels, if we can change the way we feel, then and only then can we change the way we act. That's why this book is so important because it takes. that on. And it's not ignoring the baby steps. It's in lock step with it. Yes. It'll cause you to walk the baby steps faster. Get it now because it's the best deal. 2499. It's on pre-sale right now.

RamseySolutions.com slash store. Ramsey Solutions.com slash store. And when you pre-order, we're going to send you over $100 in free bonus items, including exclusive video. Your financial checkup with Jade. She's phenomenal, as you know, on camera. And early access to the e-book, also an enhanced audio book. I wanted her to sing a lot. She didn't. That idea got killed, but it's still a great audiobook. So you can get it all. Ramsey Solutions.com slash

store get it today. Taylor now joins us in San Antonio, Texas. Taylor, how can we help? Hi, how are you? Great. How are you? I am good. I am calling because I'm hoping you guys can settle a marital debate. We can. I am confident in this. I don't even know

what it is. And I handle our finances, so I'll start off by saying that. I adore my husband, but he's just not a money person. So we have a total, we have three items of debt in our lives. That's it. No car payments, nothing. A mortgage of $22,000. My husband's student loan is about $106,000.

Okay. And then we have a, let me see this last one here, sorry. Oh, a business loan at about $115,000. So kind of roughly about $400,000 and $1,000, and it's half a million dollars in debt. Is the business still alive? It is still alive. It's our personal business. So my husband's a physician.

I know that kind of plays into it, but we started our own clinic. Okay. So we pay him, you know, a salary, and then, you know, we take quarterly dividend. Well, I am at the mindset. I want my house pay off. You know, I pay my kids private school with cash. Everything is cash. But these three things, and they are bothering me so much.

But my husband wants to take these quarterly dividends after paying off the minimum balance of the loans and put them into our fidelity. So sometimes $7,000 to $10,000 a month goes straight into fidelity. And I just don't, he just, once he thinks when you invest early, it just pays off later. Well, I get it. Well, he's right and he's wrong. Yeah. There's worse things you could do than invest your money, but Ken's going to explain why that's not the good. Yeah, I'll let you do that. You're the money guru. But I just am curious. What are you all paying him? See, and that's the thing. I pay him $200,000 because we just opened five years ago.

So, you know, we work with our CPA. Sure. You know, it's probably going to have to start going up because the dividends has become greater this year. And I was going to ask you, could you give us maybe a six? month average of what the dividend, I mean, that's not six month because I know it's quarterly. Give me a year's worth of quarterly dividends. What's that average? We probably gross. Like our tax is about 450, $450,000. Okay. So you're averaging on these dividends somewhere in the 7 to 10 range. Whoa, we just lost you there. We got you?

I mean, there you go. Is that right? So quarterly dividends somewhere between 7 to 10. Is that what I heard? Yes, and I aggressively pay off. I pay almost $7,000 a month for this business loan, so I only have a year and a half left. So you are paying on that? Just the minimums, right? Yes, but I could take that money in. Are you just paying the minimums on the debt? I'm paying a minimum on my husband's student loan because I think it's like a spite thing, and then it's only 2.6%. But what about the, okay. But how are you paying down the business loan is what she's asked? Yeah, what about the business? Is it just the minimum on that? The business is paid through the business before the dividend. So every month, I pay almost $6,800 a month.

Understood, but is that the minimum? Or are you paying above the minimum? I'm paying a little bit more. Okay. So it's the 6.86%. You both have, you both have different ideas about what the priorities. It sounds like you'd rather take that money and pay off the mortgage. Did I understand that? Yes. Okay. Mortgage average. I mean, if you're looking at the, it's the mortgage 3.125. Understand. So you're talking about this. Here's a problem. And I don't know if I'm going to get through on this call, but it's something, it's food for thought. He's thinking about the future. He's thinking, let me take this extra money and invest. Not a bad idea. There's, like I said, there's a lot worse things you could do with the money. You're thinking about the

money saying, let me take this and put it on the mortgage. Again, not a horrible idea. You could do a lot worse. But let's, what I'm here to do is give you guys a sense of what the priority should be. So all good ideas, but they must be prioritized in order of importance. You feel me? So first off, you've got this debt. I don't care what the interest rate is. It's still climbing. Can we agree on that? 100%.

And as long as we're paying minimum payments, we're probably never going to pay this thing off. We're going to pay so much in interest. So why don't we prioritize paying off our debt? And I say this because when you pay off the debt, now you have what Dave Ramsey would call your biggest income, your biggest wealth building tool, which is your income working for you.

And once you have that income back in your hands, yes, you can pay off your mortgage very, very quickly. Yes, you can invest for the future. far more than you ever were before. So let's get that tool back in our hands. The first thing you need to do is look at these student loans. They're probably broken into smaller pieces. You need to pay minimum payments on everything, student loans, business loans,

but then you need to put all of the extra margin on the smallest debt and let's knock it out. You guys can be done with these student loans and this business loan very, very quickly when you're grossed in and netting $450,000 a year or whatever it says that you were doing. You can do this. Priority matters. is brought to you by our friends at Y-R-R-FI. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like the end of the road, but Y-R-R-R-E-F-I helps you find a way forward with a low fixed-rate payment plan that fits your life. Go to Y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.

It may not be available in all states. Okay, dokey. Today's question comes from Nikki in Nebraska. She says, my husband and I are in our early 30s. We bought a home next door to his parents about five years ago. His parents' home is paid off with 40 acres of land. My in-laws want us to sell our home and build them a small home on the property with the money we make from it. Okay. Then they would give us their house free and clear. We bought our home for $135,000 and remodeled it. We could sell it for $285,000. The hitch is that my husband doesn't want to sell our home. He wants to take out a loan of around $70,000 to build a house for them and hold on to our home as a rental. What is the best move for our future?

It ain't that one. First of all, I just want to throw all the papers up. Yeah, I just tell you where I'm at. I just checked out of that question halfway through. They made this so complex and so ridiculous. I've never even, the gymnastics that I had to do mentally to get through that tells you one thing. Well, it's a lot. I mean, the, the gist of it is, the gist of it is for some reason, they feel like in some form or fashion

they have to buy a house for their in-laws. Yeah, I had three words that came to mind, leave and cleave, was in my marriage vows. Yeah, or how about no? How about no? Yeah, that's why you say no. Leave and cleave, no, bad idea. Horrible. My in-laws want us to sell our home and build them a small home on the property. Yeah. I want my kids to buy me a Lamborghini. Sure. What else are we going to say? That's ridiculous.

What you buy my G-Wagon, Kim? Sure. Why not? Oh, I was expecting you to say no. Well, I'm being ridiculous. I'm being ridiculous. It's just like, what? Like, yeah, no. No on all fronts. By the way, those people ask that question because they think they're going to get a positive answer. So there's a lot of psychology behind that, which I can't dig into. to over an email question, but boy, oh boy, that's a bad move. There's no, there's not enough to it for us to get to the bottom of it, but I'm going to tee you up, okay? Yeah.

Big tea right here, giant golf ball. You got the world's biggest driver. I'm teeing you up. All right. Tell our larger audience, forget the details of this question, but the whole issue that's underneath this, which is family pressure, doing financial things with family that have zero boundaries, there's your shot. Hit it down the fairway.

I mean, I don't think I'm going to say what you think I'm going to say, Ken. I don't presume to know what you're going to say. Oh, I thought you had something set up. I'm going to say that. No, I'm just saying why we think this is a bad idea in general. Because this right here is what I think is a classic case of, it has a guilt that's associated with it, Ken. Because we can feel guilt with money, whether it's something I didn't do, right? They expected me to do this and I wasn't able to do it, right? We can feel guilt about doing the right thing and the people don't understand why we're doing it.

So we can even feel guilty doing the right thing. And so what I sense from this is there's some family guilt here. Well, if we don't build them the house, how are they going to have a house? They know the right thing to do. That's right. That's why they're running out all these options. And they're afraid that if they don't build their in-law home, they're going to have to be the one that lives with that.

When really, it's the in-laws that have to live with that. For whatever reason that they can't buy their own home or build their own home, that's their problem. You want to do a family compound? Great. But everybody pays for their own home. Everybody pays for their own home, and you shouldn't have to carry that. Yeah, it's craziness. All right.

Well done. You hit it right down the middle. 400-yard drive. McKenna is up next in Salt Lake City. McKenna, how can we help today? Hi, thank you for taking my call. So my question today is my husband's employer just opened health care enrollment. And we're wondering if we should re-enroll this year due to his premiums doubling along with his out-of-pocket max and deductible doubling as well.

Oh, my gosh. Here's another real-life case of the affordability crisis in America. This is just absolute real stuff right here. Insurance prices have really, really, really skyrocketed. And what is Congress? What do they do? What are both parties doing? Just whistling.

Just whistling around in D.C. Like, nothing's happening. Here we go, McKenna. So give us real numbers because it'll help us. And then I want the American people to hear this as well. So it's going to go from what to what? So it's currently $500 a month, which has been okay for us. It's been sustainable with our income, but it's going up to $900.

And what's your income? Wow. Our monthly income is $5,000 a month combined. Yeah, you feel that. Yeah, for sure. So we just had a five-month-old. We just had a baby. He's five-month-old.

I'm grateful for insurance, but I'm also just like we're filling the pressure with already being at 500, how are we supposed to go up to 900? I'm really lucky. My boss is amazing. He doesn't offer health care because it's a small company, but he does give us $200 a month towards health care. So I'm just like, do I self-insurer? I've called my pediatricians. I called my primary doctors, and I'm just like, how much would it be if I didn't have insurance and got those numbers? Have you priced it out? Are you going to the market on your own, not through his work? So I've called the market a couple times in the last couple days and try to get a contact with some brokers, but due to the government shutdown, unfortunately, it's hard to get

quotes out. And so they've been struggling getting quotes out to me. I've watched to probably four or five people and I've only gotten one quote and it was $700. Yeah. I mean, we could set you up with folks here. I mean, we, health trust, you could go over there and see if they can find some better numbers for you just to see so you can compare. And I think that's the takeaway from this call is you need to run a comparison and see is it better for you guys to go out in the open market on yourself using your $200 rebate or is it better for you to go through his work the truth is as much as I hate to admit at McKenna insurance is going up I mean it's going up here at our work everybody is feeling it it's just part of what's going on in that industry but you can always

shop the numbers you can always see if there's something that's better for you out there and if not then it's tough I'm not going to act like this is easy but you're going to have to adjust to whatever the new number is because I doubt you're going to find it for the exact same amount with the same coverage it's likely going to go up somewhat and you're going to have to find that in your budget whether it's cutting back in another area or you guys starting to look for different jobs that pay a little bit more that's the very emotional side of this is when an external thing happens and it affects our life internally and it's like well wait a minute I nothing to do with this, and now here I am holding the bag for it, and I have to change my life and rearrange my money and rearrange how I was working. That's emotional, and I'm sorry that you're having to go through that. Do you all have any debt? We do. We have about $47,000 in consumer debt. Just give me a list here. Go smallest debt to the largest debt. So our smallest debt is a credit card with about $1,700 on it, and then the next debt is another. credit card that we put medical bills on for my son's delivery due to some insurance mix-ups

and we had to pay more out-of-pocket than we sought. We saved at $10,000, ended up having to pay about $16,000. There's about $6,000 on that credit card. And then we have two auto loans. One I think has like $19,000 and one has $18,000. Okay. I think a lot of your relief is found in those vehicles. Yeah. And that's why it's getting rid of that debt. So first of the all, we hear you, we see you, and it sucks. And I'm not going to pull my hair out today and rant at D.C. Maybe later, I'll let myself calm down. Keep your hair, Ken. It looks good. Thank you. I appreciate that. But what I would say is that what can we control. So other than voting, we can't control what D.C. does, what the health care companies do. There's things that

are outside of our control. You understand that, yes? but what you can control is well we're going to have an increase in health care but we're not going to do what we've got to do on that we're going to take care of a baby got to take care of our family now there is some struggle ahead for you all and it has nothing to do with the health care cost

because I would tell you that you can absorb that health care increase if you didn't have all those car payments you didn't have the credit car payments so you guys are listening to us you're watching us you called McKenna you got a double down here we're going to work we're going to sell everything we're not going to see the inside of a restaurant you know the whole Dave Ramsey rant and you're going to pay that debt off and you know what kind of a pay raise that's going to be when we take all that debt combined and we take the giant payment that's going to all that debt and put it back in your pocketbook

we're going to have the ability to pay the health care increase and thrive No matter what you want to do with your money, you need a budget. Start budgeting for free today with the Every Dollar app, the easiest way to budget. Track your expenses and reach your goals faster. Go to Everydollar.com today. Welcome back to the Ransy Show, coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Jade Warshaw. Excited to have you with us, AAA 825, 5-225.

Kimberly is up next in Houston, Texas. Kimberly, how can we help today? Hey, y'all. How are you? Good. What's going on? So we found an old 401k, and it has about $11,000 in it. I love that.

You found it like it was over in the corner. We're doing some fall cleaning. Thanks to you, Ken, my husband left that job. He found the proximity principal, and he just found a new career. So the 401K just kind of got pushed on the back burner. Yeah, I love that. So thank you for that. Oh, happy to do it.

He did it, and I didn't do anything. So that's fun. 111,000. Did I hear that right? Yes. Okay. So that's the good part. The bad part, we have a slew of credit card debt with three of the major cards having 57,000, and the total credit card debt is 80,500. Oh, my. Okay. Yes, I know. So the question is, if we take it out of the 401K and we have to pay taxes and a 10% penalty because he's under 59,

Um, should we do that? No. No. This is, this was money, whether you remember doing it or not. This was money that you guys specifically set aside for retirement. Therefore, it's wrapped. It's wrapped up in retirement boundaries. And if you pull it out of those boundaries, you're going to be hit with fees. You're going to be hit with taxes. Um, and that's what that you're unplugging an investment. So no, I would not do that. What I would do is roll that money to an IRA, um, direct transfer rollover, meaning you're not pulling the money out. You're just rolling it over, therefore you're not paying the taxes on it. What you need to do with this debt is approach it the way that we would tell anybody to pay off their debt can.

And that's using your income via side hustles, via your real income and cut back in your budget. That's the way to attack debt, not to unplug your future investments. Tell us about your incomes. Um, together we do ride at $100,000 a year. Mm-hmm. Okay. And you told me, go ahead. I'm just going to say, we don't really have any other debt.

Our cars are paid off. We do have a house, but that's our only other debt. So, not picking on you, but digging in here. What led to $80,000? That's not a shopping spree. Mm-hmm. It's not. So, I mean, some of it was just,

we felt like half to, it's like we were attacked by Hurricane Harvey, which destroyed our house, and that had to be redone, and then I had cancer, so Indiana doesn't really care. The deductible has to be paid, and then those are legit, in my opinion, but the other, it's just crap. Yeah, okay. So, stuff we knew better. And the reason I ask that is, is because we asked this question a lot, you're calling us on what to do to pay it off, and I love that, but have the both of you?

had your, I've had it moment, or you go, okay, despite what has happened, we're not going to play armchair quarterback, we're not doing that again. Are we at that moment? Yes, God love him, and I think he is listening. He hasn't been quite on board with me, and I think he's there now. So, hence, okay, let's either do the 401K, or let's set it into the budget, but let's do something. Okay, so let's give us, I'm, I'm glad you guys are ready to do something. Let's make sure we're making the next right step, right? Because we don't want to do things out of desperation.

We don't want to do things with the right intent, but the wrong methodology. Okay. So let's do it the right way. You guys are making, what, $6,400 a month? Does that sound about right? $6,300? It does. Okay.

Are you currently investing still? So the company he's with now, they, I think they pull out, a little bit so they pull out um it's a match on his 401k okay so let's pause that because you guys need all the money you can get to pay off this debt super duper fast and i understand that saying that strikes fear in the heart of many because you're thinking what i need to stack up the money but you were just willing to drain a 401k for this purpose so surely we can go ahead and just pause the investing for now, keep the 111 plugged in.

And what we're going to do is we're going to take all these credit cards and we're going to list them smallest to largest. And we're going to keep paying minimum payments like you have been, but all the extra money that you can get your hands on, we're going to throw it at the smallest debt. So when you guys do your budget, how much margin do you kind of have at the end of each month that you can do what you want with?

Not a whole lot. We have a daughter in college as well. So there's not a lot left over. But I don't think, honestly, we're as disciplined as we could be. Understood. I like that honesty. Are you double income? I didn't pay attention. I'm sorry. I thought I heard his income.

You are or you are not? We own a small business and then he works for a home builder. And the total was $100,000 a year? Right around there, yes, ma'am. And the reason I asked that question is, are there opportunities for either one of you to make some more money for a season? I have side hustles because ours is our business is clothing related and so I have all of that outside online possibilities and then he is a salary and bonus base so yes so what do you do a side or in addition to I should say to the 100,000 what are you doing with the side hustles what does that bring in my goodness I don't have

A number I could tell you. That's okay. But it's also not enough that you even, it's on your, and I, I, my point here I'm making is if it were a decent chunk, that number would be readily available in your brain. And I think that's the challenge. Or if your, or if your budget, if you're really on your budget. Fair. But it's not a whole lot of money and it's not very consistent.

So we need to change that as my point, because we've got a big hole. Okay. What Ken is, what Ken is saying, and I want to double down on this for anybody listening, is when you have a debt problem like this, there's two ways you can tackle it. What Ken is saying, which is money, right? This doesn't happen. It's not a magic trick. You got to put some money into the budget. And the other thing is, yeah, you can cut expenses, but sometimes when you've got a kid in college or you've got daycare or private school, these other things, they are starting to eat at that margin. So there's really only so much that you can cut from the budget. So yeah, the other part,

which is going out and generating more and more income, that can be such a huge part of this. And I think that's going to be the case for you guys as, too, Kimberly. That's the way this works. There's not, I wish there was an easy button to push, Ken. I do too. I do too. But we have got to get more income. And this is specifically to your case.

So let me make another suggestion. And I'm only making this as a suggestion. With these side hustles, in this season where we're trying to make as much as we can to pay off this debt quickly, or as quick as possible, shall we say. You're going to have to weigh your time. The amount of time, Jade, that she is putting into these hustles. I could see you doing your coaching. You've done some cool videos or you sit with somebody.

I know you. You would be like, all right, how much time a week? And this is the question, Kimberly, that you've got to weigh through. You don't have to answer it specifically because our time is short. But your homework assignment is, how much time am I putting in these side hustles? That's right. any money-making venture and how much money am I bringing in? Because I might need to pause all of that and go get myself a job at X, Y, Z to bring an additional

three, four, five grand a month for a season to make a big debt in 80,000 plus of credit card debt. When you're in debt, now's not the time to get jobs that you like because you just like it. Right. Now is the time to get the high-paying job, the high-paying side hustle. So it doesn't matter if you like it or not. It's a short-term sacrifice. All right, so I want to talk about something that's happened recently in the news because we're the largest money show in the world. And I don't want to have our heads in the sand.

And so let's just talk about some reality. So I saw some data recently, Jade, that 70% of millennials have a favorable view of socialism. Now, I make that statement, a lot of you get real nervous. There's a lot of emotions right now, and that's okay, because we're going to be adults and we're going to step into something

that needs to be talked about. And that is the affordability crisis in America. Now, I start with that data, Jade, because you hear that and you go, what? And some of you may go, oh, these whatever, whatever, insults that you might come up with,

you're outraged by that. I understand that emotion. They're outraged by the affordability process? No, outrage that 70% of millennials view socialism favorably. Okay. All right. So then we have a big election. And Mom Donnie becomes, he's an avowed socialist.

He becomes the mayor of New York that creates a lot of emotions. You're going to see a lot of headlines. That guy's name and what he stands for is going to be in the news a lot. Yeah. So I'm addressing this, not from a political standpoint, but from a financial, economic standpoint. Okay. So whatever your emotions and feels are, here's what I want to point out.

The reason that 70% of millennials, and I don't know the numbers on Gen Z, but I'm raising three. But why would a large chunk of Americans view socialism with some favorability? I'm going to tell you why. There's three major financial reasons why. Number one, student debt. We talk about student debt on this show all the time. It's gotten bigger and bigger and more.

expensive. It is a full-blown crisis. If you've ever listened to me, I've talked about it. I think the federal government should not be in the banking business. And that's what they're in when they are financing student loans. And the colleges, Jade, and the universities get the money immediately. They get it immediately. So when a kid signs up, FAFSA and all that junk, they get the loan, boom. Guess who gets paid? University cash in the bank. And then these students become young adults, become young professionals, become middle-aged professionals. And then they're calling us. And they're calling us under the unbearable burden it feels like. Now it's bearable. We teach them how to get out of it. But let's talk about the problem. So student loans, it's a crisis. It's a hook.

And the federal government is on the back of people with student loans. Not only is a student loan thing a problem, but the affordability of tuition, Jade, is a problem. The universities keep ratcheting up the cost of tuition. Well, of course they are because that's money in the bank. They're getting paid. immediately. Yeah. Number two, affordable housing. Real estate. I was hoping it was on your list.

It's the biggest of the three, but affordable housing. I'm seeing reports that sometime in the next six months or so, we will see the average age of a first-time home buyer. I can't even believe I'm saying this, Jay, be 40 years of age or older. But we know, I mean, you and I did, you and I did the math on it the other day. If you're making $100,000 and you pick a house for, I don't know, 375, $5,000, and, you know, we can run the math on that, but you're going to be putting 60% down for that to be 25% of your take-home pay.

That's exactly right. You can do it, but it's going to take you a long, long time. I'm glad you mentioned that. So add that into the emotion. It's emotional. You've written a book about emotion and money. What no one tells you about money. Well, I'm going to get real and marry politics and economics for a second.

The third factor, the skyrocketing cost of health care. and the spotty coverage. We take those calls every day. Now, if you're still with me, and I don't care if you're a conservative or a liberal, I'm not making a political state, but I'm talking about the reality of the affordability crisis in America, and I've given you the big three. It's expensive. Now, let me play this out. And I'm not justifying anybody's views on socialism, but I am a realist, and I'm a co-host of the largest money show in the world. And we help people dig out of these problems. Now you take those three things. Let me review very quickly. Student debt. Unaffordable housing. Skyrocketing health care with spotty coverage.

You take all three of those things and you put them together. And millennials, younger millennials, for sure, Jade, and Gen Z, they have never experienced positive capital. What I mean by that is the true usage of the word money. They feel like they have been and they are behind the eight ball for anyone if not all three of these combined understood so therefore the system of capitalism as they know it doesn't work very well they have to listen to us old heads to try to tell them so me Dave I'll say it I'm all pro capitalism but I am being realistic today as a 51 year old gen Xer who has thrived because of capitalism my experience with capitalism is very very different than theirs. And so I'm just simply pointing out for a moment because this could

tear our country apart and I'm going to make a case today to bring it together. Ken, go for it. Okay. So there's the setup. I don't think that they're evil. I don't think they're idiots. I don't think they should be ridiculed and made fun of and marginalized. I think they need to be stood up for. And so I'm going to make a suggestion that those of us who have won because of capitalism and experienced the fruit of it, the burden now becomes on us as we, the people, if we believe what we say we believe, that we now have to collectively put pressure on all politicians, local, state, federal, both sides of the aisle and say, maybe we the people should vote these lunatics and these idiots out if, they don't work on policy by creating policy or changing policy to make things affordable. Period. Now, I can say that as a host of the Ramsey Show because I am not at the mercy of someone with an opinion because I have an experience.

I've, A, benefited from capitalism, and B, I've coached thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people, and we will take more calls today of people that are dealing with this affordability crisis in America. That's right. And we the people have one option to start to collectively say, let's take on these three issues. And so as a guy who gets this unbelievable privilege, from a money perspective. Yes.

And you don't come at me because, hey, I will not read the comments and James Charles will tell you. What can you come at, Ken? I feel like that's the most reasonable thing that I've heard in a long time. So both parties are on the hook for this. Don't come at me. both parties are on the hook and we the people are on the hook to say wait a second

let's take these three issues alone affordable housing the student loans and the tuition crisis and health care costs and let's do something about it and we've got to make our voices heard I'm not talking about violence but I am talking about the one thing that these politicians care most about

is their preservation Jade they just want to keep getting reelected so at some point this is coming to a head. And I don't want our audience to get sucked into what the mom-dani election means and what millennials flirting or liking socialism means. Don't get fearful. Get active. Because I can tell you this, if anything unites the American people, it would be those three issues.

Yeah, we can all agree that it's outlandish. That's a big tent. I think we could all say, how many in this giant audience? think that housing affordability should be lower. Everybody's raising their hands. How many in this audience think that health care should be more affordable and better coverage? That's everybody in this audience.

How many people think that the rising tuition in America is out of control and the student loan thing is a crisis and we should get out of the student loan business? How many think that maybe these universities should raise their own freaking dollars? Or use what's already in those giant downloads and pay for bright young students to get educated. Every hand in the audience goes up. I'm not running for anything. I'm just pointing out that what could break our great nation is this affordability issue, and it's solvable.

And I will say to our large audience, Republican, Democrat, independent, libertarian, conservative, liberal, we probably should unite on these issues and say, let's make our public servants do better on policy, Jade, to make these things better. And I bet you we'd have a far greater union, a far less stressed country. a far less pissed-off electorate. I just, I'm throwing it out there. Ladies and gentlemen, Ken freaking Coleman on the topic. Way to go, Ken.

All right. All right. This is fun. We're going to go to a video call from Breanne. I hope I'm saying that right in Portland, Oregon. Hi. Hi. How are you? Hi, guys. Thanks for having me on. Oh, we're thrilled to have you on. You look fabulous, by the way. So fun. Love the video call. What's going on? How can we help today? I have a spending addiction that I just can't seem to get over. I've been trying to follow the baby steps, but it's really hard for me. So I'm just kind of looking for your advice on that. Tell us a little bit more. What is this, what can you, what do you feel comfortable telling us about this particular addiction? Is it just across the board spending or is it one or two? categories or one thing? What is it? Yeah, so it's fast food because I have such a busy schedule that I don't plan for making dinner. So I spend money on fast food. I spend a lot of money on my daughter. I spend money on other people. And then like at the bottom of the list is

splurging on my own stuff. Okay. And what give us an idea, have you been tracking how much you're spending in all these categories on a monthly basis? Yeah. I use every dollar so it's probably about a thousand to a thousand two hundred a month and what's your total income for a month it's about oh for a month it's probably a 4800 oh so ma'am you don't have the margin to be splurging like this right no i mean that's like if you do have a two thousand dollar month that's half your income yeah do you have debt as well i do i have a total of probably 90,000 in debt. Whoa. Okay, you know we're going to break this down. Give us the list. Smallest or largest. Yeah, my medical debt is for a little over 4,000 credit cards, 9,100. And then

personal loans, 51,600. And my student loans are 20,000. Who are these personal loans to? So before I found you guys, I had a debt consolidation loan. Okay. And then we got pipes on our house back when I was with my ex and we're still paying that off. And then a car. So if I shoot straight with you, I mean, I'm wondering if I already heard it when you were talking about your ex. What do you think is behind this? Because there's always something behind it. It's trauma.

Definitely trauma. And I'm trying to work through that. But I'm trying to figure out how to stop this overspending while I'm working on my trauma history. Are you, when you say working on the trauma history, you see in a professional? I am, yeah. Great. And you feel like you're making progress? I think so, yeah.

And I've started a couple groups with some others who've been through the same thing. Okay. So in a case, I'm thinking through this. I'm trying to be thoughtful here. If it were a spousal situation and the two were together and one of them had an addiction, I would say this person doesn't need access to the money. Right. Right.

I'd say the other spouse who was able to take care of the money who can be trusted, to take care of the money needs to help. So I'm almost wondering if there's someone in your life who can be that person for you to say, hey, let me walk alongside you to make sure, because with $4,800 and with a daughter and with $90,000 of debt, we cannot keep spending $2,000. Is there someone that you can trust to kind of walk with you and kind of not take you out of it completely, but for them to be more in charge of having that accountability with you? Yeah, I have a close friend who's actually offered to do that for me. It's just really seeing that control of it. That's hard. But here's what we have to ask ourselves, what if we don't? What if you

keep doing this over and over? Where will you, you know, a year from now, you're going to look up and say, okay, am I going to be the same? Am I going to be worse off where I'm going to be better? And right now, if you continue down this path, you're going to be worse off. Yeah. So something has to shake. Yeah. Let's, okay. So first of all, can I say something?

You're amazingly brave to call in on a video call and go, hey, I have a spinning addiction. So I want to tell you something because I think you need to hear it. You're way tougher than a lot of people. So I want you to harness that. Now, I'm a big fan of therapy. I am no therapist, nor have I played one on TV, nor am I going to try to be one. But I would love to know what has your things? therapist said to you in that you're comfortable sharing as it relates to tools or some

type of process that they're probably giving you when you get to an emotional place and let's say we're driving home and you know you've got an old pot roast in the fridge but you really want to pull over to your favorite place and get a combo taste good feels good all the things what has been shared, if any, from your therapist on tools or how we're processing? Because I'm going somewhere with the answer. What can you share? So I'm in EMDR therapy, and she has, we recently worked on this where you kind of go and play from the beginning of the scenario, like I'm driving home and then play through the scenario.

What would happen if I were to go drive to this fast food place and get a burger and then drive home and then there's that meat in the fridge that's almost ready to expire. So kind of walking through it and then reshaping it in your head what it would look like if you were to just drive home and use the food you have. And has that been helpful? I haven't really used it yet because it was just this last week. Okay, great. So when was the last time, and so you're being real with this, when was the last time that you spent in one of those categories that you led the call off with that was the addictive stuff? When was the last time? probably last week okay good okay so i the reason i went to this is i love what you said jade i

think in this situation you have got to get to a place where while you're getting the help and the therapy and you're dealing with the trauma you've got to find something to replace that bandaid spend and you've got to find something that goes i've got to look at something else and instead of something that makes me feel good, I would start thinking about something that makes me feel really bad attached to said spending, right? So if I'm tempted to buy something for my daughter because I show her love, and by the way, I'm guilty of this and you're smiling. It makes you feel good. See, you feel bad about yourself a lot, don't you? I do, yeah. So when you buy something for your daughter, it makes you feel really good. And the endorphins release and there's dopamine and you're

like, okay, I feel really crappy. Let me go buy something for my daughter. What I think you've got to start doing is, is like, I feel crappy. How do I process these emotions? What are the tools my therapist is giving me? That's first. Second, if it were me, Jade, I would go to, if I buy something for my daughter that I cannot afford to make myself feel good because she shows me love and happiness, I am further penalizing her and me and putting me further in a hole. And that's what I mean by going to the negative consequence of the addictive spending. I think you've got to spend more time there to go, oh, the pain of that is far greater than the pain I'm feeling because what somebody did to you and said to you.

What are your thoughts on that? I mean, I think that's all valid. I go to the practicality of it. I go to James Clear and I think about systems and putting those systems in place so you can actually win. That's why I mentioned what I mentioned earlier. If I were in your shoes, I think it would take an incredible amount of willpower, but I think I would go to nine. and I would set up everything on automation and I would say when I get paid on these days

my bills get paid automatically and do you want to know what I would do? I think that I would cut up my cards for a while. Oh, yeah. Yep. Do you have them close by? Because here's the thing. If you need money,

you can walk into a bank, you can withdraw it. That requires a lot more work. It requires a lot more thought. But in that time, that also gives you the time that if you're feeling that way, you can call your buddy up

and say, hey, remember, I told you about this thing, I need you right. now because I'm about to go in here and make a withdrawal slip so that I can go by myself a burger so I can go buy my daughter something. And so now we put another level of friction in between you and doing the thing that you know you shouldn't be doing. And I'm no therapist. I can't even pretend to be one. But that's just something on the practical level that could help you today. All right. Speaking of practical, are your credit cards close by?

No, I don't know. across the room. Okay. If we were to give you an opportunity, say, to walk across the room and get those cards and bring them back on camera, would you cut them up right now? Maybe. Wait a second. You called.

You called us. And you said, I need help with a dick to spending. I think Jade makes a good point. I think we cut them up now. You give yourself a certain amount of money. For groceries, let your buddy hold it. You in or not? We're not going to force it.

You in or not? You want freedom? so my debit cards to my bank account not your debit your credit card you want to cut them up oh I already cut out the credit cards is just my debit I would have let the debit ones go to All right, that was real, real. You know, like when you talk to somebody like Brianne who's dealing with a spinning addiction, owns it, that she's had some past trauma, a single mama. I mean, that's as real as it gets.

And that's tough stuff. And, you know, you were sharing with me, you know, you were sharing with her. I think for her, for anybody that's in those shoes, I thought you had a really great here's what I would do step by step and I wanted you to share that because I think it's really good I mean you did with her but I'd love for you to to really recap that well it's definitely probably the most extreme piece of advice I've given but she seemed like she was in an extreme situation and I said I would automate my bills you know whatever her bills are rent car insurance so that they come out of the account automatically when she knows she's paid and I would get with a friend an accountability friend and say hey I don't go to the bank to withdraw money unless you're with me. And I can go to withdraw money for groceries and I can withdraw money for gas. And then you go with me to the grocery store

and you go with me to the gas station. And that is, that's just a practical thing because we said that can, because if it's a spousal situation, we can give the money to the other spouse to handle and we can lock ourselves out of it. She has to find a way in a system to lock herself out to keep her safe

until she can work through the trauma with her counselor. And by the way, I mean, the all new every dollar app and it's really no long, it's not an app. I mean, it is such a, I sat with the team the other day, and you are going to get what you get on this show, 20X. In other words, it's a digital coach.

Yeah, it is. And you answer the questions, you dive into it, it's going to send you specific content. You get an actual free 10-minute coaching call with one of our actual coaches. If you're in the shoes of Brian or anybody that's going, hey, I need to get control of my money. I'm telling you every dollar is the play.

The average person, by the way, is finding thousands of dollars in margin in the just first 15 minutes. By the way, if you take 15 minutes and answer questions honestly, what you get in return is a digital coach walking alongside of you. It is so fantastic. Start every dollar for free today by getting it in the app store or Google Play. Josh is up in Tampa, Florida. Josh, how can we help today?

Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Yeah, you bet. What's happening in your world? So me and my wife, we rent currently, and we're contemplating whether we should buy a home or not, but we do have some debt that we've been knocking out. We've been following the baby steps and have every dollar. We've been really attacking it since about February. But total debt we have between everything is $73,000. And so we bring home together, bring home about $8,600 per month. And after bills and everything is paid for, we're doing pretty good.

We have about $1,500 a month left over, which is what we've been doing, attacking the credit card debt we have. And we've already paid five off since February. So we've just really just, you know, got our savings and everything good to go through Baby Step 1. So really my question is, should we just keep attacking the debt? Our rent is relatively cheap. What is it? 850. 850.

So what's the rest of this money going on, minimums? Because 8600 is a lot of money. It's just you and your wife, right? There's no kids yet? No, we have a 4-year-old, and then we have a baby on the way, actually. Oh, congrats. So, give me, like, 850 is super cheap. Where is the rest of this 8,600 going towards?

Because usually the big ones are rent, daycare, insurance um so where where where where where where is yours is it car payments yeah so we so my wife's car we have about 9,000 on my truck we just got over the summer uh because we knew we were my car was small so we knew we had to get something bigger now and what's the payment on that i'm not uh 710 okay there's some of it what do you owe on it uh 42 000 listen my guy you already know what i'm going to say. I do. Drum roll.

You got to sell the truck, my guy. You got to let it go. I think you better cut it loose. Let it go. You got cut it loose. And I'm serious, by the way. I was making jokes. But listen, $710.

I applaud you for putting $1,500 of margin on. But when I hear $8,600, I'm thinking it's going to be a lot bigger of a shovel than that. So the 7-10, if you, I don't know if you've looked, but what could you get for that truck Kelly Blue Book private sale? I haven't looked. I would guess around $38,000. 38. Okay. So if I'm you, would you rather have $4,000 of debt or $42,000 of debt? Right. True. So I think that's the play. Now, you've got a little bit of time. You're not pressed for time. I don't think you need to go get a loan for it. I think you can save

up the difference because I think you do have more margin than you think. We're going to give you every dollar if you don't already have it. Do you have it? Yeah, we do have every dollar. Okay. Go through that budget and crunch those numbers because I think you have more margin than 1,500 because I want you to save up $4,000 really fast. To clear this. Can I jump in on this one? Yes, Ken. She's right, but I wonder if you could earn $4,000. You're a young guy. You got some skills. Yeah, I've been doing DoorDash on the side. No. No, we don't do DoorDash randomly. Sorry. I was all fired up and then you stepped into that one. You've got limited time, correct? Correct. And we need, you've ever heard the old phrase time is money? Right. So we don't, and listen, I'm not

knocking DoorDash, but in your situation, I believe you can make a whole lot more money than you're making for the time you're exchanging. Do you agree with that? sure yeah all right what skill sets do you have let's get real what skill sets do you have experience do you have in the workforce list um well my so i'm a navy veteran and then um so my job in the military i actually do um i'm a minister so we that's that's what i do and then my wife is a banker okay um and then you got any trade skills you got any you know uh you know where you can sling a hammer or do anything like that uh renovation work if you can't can you work in a manufacturing situation and work the crazy shifts and make really good money now or slinging boxes

around you get my point absolutely in other words what can you do in your area that'll make you the max amount of money to get back into where jade's talking about i want you savings She's right. But what if we could also, what if Jade, we could save four and make four? Back to you. I love that because now you're going to have the cash to buy something that's older, much less expensive, way more miles, right? But it's just a band-aid until you can get the rest of this debt paid off. Then you can move up in car. Now here, let me tell you what's going to happen. You're going to get off this call and what we have said to you is really going to sink in. And you're going to say, hold on, they told me to sell my.

truck I just got this truck wait a minute they're telling me to work extra hours I have a pregnant wife and you're going to question whether or not the first thing you called in which is you want to be out of debt you're going to question of if the methodology is worth the result that's what you're going to question that's what your emotions are going to cause you to do when you go home then you're going to tell your wife about it and she's going to add hers to the mix and you're going to have to sift through all that and what I'm asking you to remember is what What I want you to sort through what you want now, which is you want to keep your car and you want to be home. But I want you to compare that with what you want most.

So you need to think about that tonight. What do you want most? Is it the way the house feels when you bring the newborn baby home? Is it how it's going to feel to be able to sit down with your wife and the debt not come up in the conversation and cause another fight? These are the things that you need to think through because what we're asking you to do is not any small little. thing. Fair enough. But you're also talking to two people who have done the things that we're, we are

not going to tell you to do anything we haven't done ourselves. Fact. I'm curious, Josh. Have you felt some frustration recently about this whole money thing? So at the beginning of the year, yes. Once we found you guys and started doing, you know, the baby steps and every dollar and then, you know, we cut out a lot of, I mean, we found that, you know, 1500 a month that's over.

Basically. I'm going to tell you something. When you get off the call, like she said, you're going to feel a range of emotions. Can I give him? I know it's before it comes out. Do it. Let's give him a copy of what no one tells you about money. It's the emotional playbook here. It's so needed for you, my friend, because she's right. What we told you to do is not fun. So hang on the line. We're going to give you a copy. It's not even out yet. We're going to give it to you because you need this book. So Jade's new book, what no one tells you about money available. Ramsey Solutions.com. Go pre-order it now. No matter what you want to do with your money, you need a budget. Start budgeting for free today with the Every Dollar app, the easiest way to budget. Track your expenses and reach your goals faster. Go to Everydollar.com today. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show coming to you from the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

I'm so excited to have you with us. The phone number to jump in so we can help out is AAA 825-5-2-25-2-25. Triple-8-25-5-2-25. Allen is up in Dallas, Texas. Alan, how can we help today? Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Sure. My girlfriend and I are in our 60s.

We are financial independent, and we're discussing marriage. And this would be the second marriage for both of us. And I've heard numerous times on your program, there is no his or hers in marriage. There's just ours. Yes. Of our situation, I think, may be, have extenuating circumstances, and I am needing help processing those. variables before she and I sit down and discuss it. Okay. Well, so let's start with these extenuating circumstances. I doubt we're

going to change our opinion, but hey, give us a shot. What are these extenuating things where you go, I don't know, Ken, we made me the one case where we keep everything separate. Sure. Well, okay, we each have a trust, and those trusts are set up for our estates, our children, our grandchildren. Okay. And we would have a pre-up. to protect them in the event one of us passed. We're both Christians, we're faith-based marriage, we volunteer, we work for our church. Sure. So the pre-nots not because we might get divorced.

It's what happens when one of us passes. Sure. Okay. We each own our homes outright and we'll keep both of them, but we'll live in hers. And if she passed before I did, I would be able to stay in that house and as long as I wish, but then it would go to her children. Okay. Okay.

So what I think about is home improvements, let's say. Well, if we do home improvements, it's her house, I benefit because I live there. But in my opinion, that's something that she would pay for. And if we bought, one of us bought a new vehicle, well, whomever wanted that vehicle would be the one. to pay for it. So you're keeping it separate. Yes, keeping those separate. Well, if you keep that separate, you are keep, let's be honest.

I do think if you keep things like buying cars separate, if you keep things like doing home renovation separate, I mean, your money is separate. I don't mind the fact of you guys protecting the trust through a pre-up. It's almost like the stuff that was in the past, I'm okay with it being protected and having that protection around it but the things that are you you're doing going forward i'm okay with that being together because if you buy a new car is that in the trust no that's that's you guys living your current life together and so you guys together get to decide who you know what will happen to this if either of us passes that sort of thing and you know what the house is i might be inclined for you guys to do something where you don't keep both of those homes and

you buy something together and start your life together because the more you keep things separate and try to keep your previous life alive to a certain extent, it's going to be very messy for you. What's the benefit of keeping both of your old homes versus selling them, taking the money together and buying something you really like together and then willing it that it split equally amongst your heirs? She really loves her home. Like she's, loves their home. And I am not overly attached to mine. I would actually keep mine. My home is near my kids. And so I would keep it as an overflow house. I might stay there some. We might stay there some when I have other kids come in from out of town. It would just, it would be kind of

just for my family's use. Yeah, I, I've slightly different, I don't mind Jade's suggestion, but I'm not, I'm, I wasn't going to make any changes on the house thing. I'm with you, Jade, 100%. I think the trusts are what they are. I think the houses, again, it's a sticking point because your wife to be, we're going to assume that you guys get married or your girlfriend. That house, she's got in the will. It's going to the kids.

They've got separate kids. I get that. But I would say to answer your question, I do think your finances need to be combined. I agree with Jade. I just, I don't really care about the houses, the house situation, and the trust. I'd say it's kind of excluded, but I agree with Jade 100%, and I don't think we change our tune. Unless, unless you have some sort of trust issue with her in combining finances, which you shouldn't get married anyway. He's wondering about making upgrades to her house.

I know, I'm getting there. I think that I'm with you. I agreed with you that it's, whether it's her house from the past or not, if they're living there, it's not the renovation for the new bathroom, because out of her account. No, it's our account. I think you guys should combine checking and savings accounts. You are married. You're doing life together. The trust and the house is staying where they are. But if he puts money into that house, but it's all aired to her kids, what does that mean for him? Is that's the, right? Am I wrong? That's where he's hung up. But I'm saying, I agree with you. But that's the part. It's, that's going to be very

hard to navigate because then you're going to have to every year do some sort of thing to the trust where you're saying, you know, here's the value of the house, but this much is going over to, you know, his side of the family. I'm telling you. And that, and that wouldn't happen. And that wouldn't happen. I would think, so here's, here's devil's advocate. Okay. I'm living in this house for free, right? She's not going to charge me to live there. You're married to her. And that, hold on, let me stop, because that is the crux of all of this. As long as this persists, that will be the, the, the language. And, and, you know, and, you know, And you've got to be able to move past that.

And the only way to move past that is to say, okay, what was in the past is in the past. And sometimes when we enter into a relationship, there are sacrifices that we make for that person. That's just part of it. When Sam and I got married, I moved from where I was living and I moved in with him. I changed my name. I sacrificed certain things about my life. He sacrificed certain things about his for us to come together. And I think it's the same thing for you guys.

It's just harder because you're 60 and you're in your. your life and you're in your ways and there's things that you've grown accustomed to and I'm not I get it but if you truly want to make this simpler for yourselves and get the language of we you've got to let go of what was mine that's all I'm saying I agree yeah listen and by the way you do what you want to do you called us so keep in mind when you call us yeah you're going to and you push back on something that we believe we're going to push back again and again we're all friends. That's right.

You're very wise. You guys are in great financial situation. I just think you're overthinking this. And if I was in my 60s and I was in your situation and I had found another love and this was my opportunity, I would not be calling me asking the questions that you're asking. I'd be like, babe, let's live it up. Let's go. You know?

I don't know. I'd be like, well, what's going to happen when I put $50,000 into this renovation? I'd be wondering too. Yeah, but you're like contradicting yourself. No, because it's her house. It's his house. If you're like, babe, I'm ready to go, but we move into your house and all my money spent renovating your house that's going to go to your air.

How much money you're going to spend on this woman in a year just because you love her? How much? $100,000. Yeah. Get over the freaking kitchen renovations, man. Listen, I'm looking across the glass and Will Rutter is right on with me. He knows what's up. But you're marrying her.

And exactly. if she wants a kitchen it's called happy wife happy life then i my thing is like let's go buy a house where we both love the kitchen together you're spending more of his money i'm fine with that too you know what i get where you're at but i mean the way he's asking it i'm just like we're worrying about stuff that quite frankly in your 60s getting married a second time you shouldn't be worried about All right, Jade, I'm going to tell you something you already know, but everybody needs insurance. See, you knew that. I did know, yes.

But it can be a little bit sticky. It's not fun. let's be honest, most of the time, trying to find out, you know, who's looking to make a buck versus an agent who knows their stuff and they got your best interest in mind. But that's why you need a Ramsey trusted insurance probe because you never have to deal with all the sleazy gross stuff because Ramsey has vetted these fine folks and they care about what they're doing. They care about you.

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Stephen is up in Montgomery, Alabama, rather. Stephen, how can we help? Yeah, so mine is kind of a two-part question, I guess. I, me and my wife, we are looking to purchase land and build a house, but I want to be debt-free before doing so. I'm self-employed, and so I'm trying to figure out, out of my savings that I currently have, how much of that can I put towards my debt to not drop my savings too low since I am self-employed? And so trying to figure that out and also trying to figure out how do I figure up when it is time to buy the, land and build the house what I can afford with what I make if that makes sense because you know trying to get out of the debt if it's possible helps me get to that point do you have so

when you talk about your savings um as a self-employed person do you have money set aside in your business as retained earnings and then you have a personal savings set aside or how is it does it arrange yeah so there's a little bit yeah so there's a little bit in the business and then I have a separate set aside and like my personal account basically okay I would keep what's in the business and the business. I wouldn't pull that out. How much is it? Just curious. So in the personal, combined is 60, so in the personal 50 and then the personal 50 and then 10 in the business. Okay. Yeah. What kind of business is it? So it's new roofing. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and keep that 10,000 there, I think. I'm not sure how your business runs,

but my guess is it's there for a reason, and you want to keep being able to run. I guess is, yeah, yeah, so I own the business. So there's obviously in that business, there's a lot more money than what's in. I should have specified that. Basically, that pays my corporation. So my corporation is what I'm talking about,

but in the actual business, because I own it with a partner, there's a lot more money in that. So that business pays my corporation, if that makes sense. Got you. I would keep that separate for now. Okay.

Because it seems like it's going to be cleaner for you. But you've got $50,000 saved. That's your money. Let's talk about that. The way the baby steps work, which is the framework that we're always going to teach people how to handle their money through, is the first thing you need to do

after setting aside a thousand dollars just as a basic, you know, barrier between you and life. The next thing we do is we take all the money we can find and we throw it at our debt. that includes savings, income, selling things, selling off stocks, crypto, that sort of thing. Basically, everything's at stake except your retirement for the most part, right, Ken? And of course, you don't have to sell your house, but you see what I'm saying?

So for you, yeah, I would keep $1,000 aside and I would take $49, and I would throw it at whatever debt you have. How much debt do you have? We just had a baby, so I don't know what that amount is without that. we're looking at 50, 55. It's for two vehicles and some backtacks stuff from when I was a teenager, basically. Tell us about those vehicles. What do you owe on each? So I owe 15 on one, 30 on the other.

What are they worth? Truck that's I owe 15 on, and it's basically a work vehicle is probably worth 20, and the SUV is worth basically what I owe. on it. Okay. So I would be looking to get out of that SUV today, instantly. And then I would take maybe $8,000 of your money that you have saved and buy something in cash. I agree. And let me play the math on the back end of that advice. She's right. What is that SUV payment right now? Monthly. Five, five, 50 somewhere around there. Okay. So if you do the math, what Jay told you, so she's

giving you an $8,000 car is not going to be exciting, but it is. going to be functional and it helps get you going on this and now not only that you've got it you freed up another $500 a month to throw it debt that's why that's a beautiful recommendation and you're not going to have to now drill down on your savings as much as you thought because now you can reach over you can pay off the $15,000 car and then what's that leave you with another $15 somewhere what else did you have yeah so there's the yeah there's the two cars which is 1315 and then there is 9,000 in back taxes. Okay, okay, and then you can reach over and you can pay off the back taxes.

Correct, yeah. What do you think about that? So even with, so I don't mind that at all. My worry was being self-employed if or get slow or something happens. Well, you'll still have, you know, you'll still have, you will only have to pull 24,000, actually, plus the eight. I forgot about that. So you'll only be pulling 32.

uh from the 55,000 that you have saved okay that's enough from the 50 that you i'm sorry i'm sorry i had it written down backwards so you'll pull 32 from the 50 that you have saved so that leaves you with a little bit yeah what do you pay yourself what do you pay yourself a month um so that's a long story but um it's uh right now about 10 all right so that i i say about 10 10 to 15 is what I get for months. But see, that urgency to get that back up because that's what you're worried about. If something were to happen, you're going, I got to get paid. Yeah.

But you have bigger problems. Correct. Right. So it's like what happens when somebody gets advice like this, they go, well, let me think of the absolute worst case scenario. And that's why I don't want to pay off my debt. But here's the deal. If the worst case scenario happens, number one, you've got a bigger problem than the fact that

you paid off the debt. You've got a problem with your business. But what's nice is if something were to happen, you, can scrap by a whole lot better, longer, if you don't have all this debt. Yeah. So I just want to make sure you see the entire picture here. Well, you're sitting in a better situation. Yeah, that makes sense. If you did what I told you to do today and tomorrow and then Monday came and the worst happens, you would have $18,000 of emergency fund. You would have $10,000 reserved in you're part of the corporation. You would have no debt. That's pretty awesome.

yeah no that makes that makes absolute sense so you wouldn't have to worry about making truck payments and car payments you wouldn't have to worry about the IRS breathing down your neck to get that money i can't believe how nonchalance you are about your back taxes from when you were a teenager i gotta tell you i heard that and and man i broke out i need a benedrill on the break it was way higher huh it was way i don't care way higher i don't care it's still around that that sucker's got mold on it's been around so long. So the question America wants to know is, are you going to do it? Which part of it will you do and which part of it

won't you do? You can be honest. Tell us. Yeah, we won't get her. So I'm, well, no, I'm going to get it. So the one that worried, I say worry, it doesn't worry me, is we have to find a vehicle that we have four kids. Listen, oh, listen, not a problem at all.

Don't give me the four kids won't fit in a standard SUV because they will. And hear me when I say, Not that. I'm talking about reliable. That kind of worries. But still, hear me when I say, if you had called in and you didn't have $50,000 saved, I might be more of a stickler about this, but you've got a little bit of money saved. If you want to spend $10,000 is not the end of the world. The point is you're buying it in cash. Do you see what I'm saying? I just bought my kid a couple years ago, a $12,000 SUV. And that thing's running like a top and you could put four kids in there. In fact, I've seen him with five teenage boys in there. So I do this all the time on the show. James up, our fearless leader. I get online. Minivans, though. Minibans work too.

Yeah, there you go. You get what you need. But my point is, the point here is to get rid of the debt and to buy vehicles from here on forward in cash. That's the point. And you get to decide how much of this you're going to keep as your emergency fund, and then you can quickly stack it up to three to six months

of expenses. And you're going to be sitting pretty if you do that. Speaking of sitting pretty, I was laughing, listening to him, because when I was a kid, we would be on long road trips and I would take a nap in the back windshield. That's how our parents did not care about seatbelts. I literally would lay in the back. You know what I'm talking about.

Oh yeah, no big deal. Just back. Nice warm place to take a nap. All right, in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. I see two fantastic-looking people over there. We've got Thomas and Amy on the debt-free stage. I guess you're here to do a debt-free scream. Is that right?

We are. Yes, we are. All right. Where are you all from? Washington Courthouse, Ohio, just about an hour south of Columbus. An hour south of Columbus. Okay. Fantastic. All right. Well, give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay off?

$138,661. Wow. How long did that take? Five years. Five years. Okay. And what's your range of income during that time? We started out at $101,000, and we ended last year at $143,000. I think we're going to beat that this year. Oh, good. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a regional coordinator for a Christian, an international Christian ministry, a fantastic one, Samaritan's Purse. Oh, sure, sure, sure.

I've traveled with, I've gone on trips with them in my past life before Ramsey, the work I did. So I love the organization. Awesome. Yeah. And you? I'm a correctional officer. Okay. You have that look and vibe.

Until you smiled, I was a little nervous talking to you. I'm not going to lie to you. Did you get that vibe from him? I don't know. I feel like it was more than meets the eye. I love it. Now what do you attribute the growth and income over that time? Well, we've done a little bit of everything.

We gave plasma for a while until we got a little concerned about our health. And I worked a second job. I would go in and work from 4 o'clock to 7 o'clock and then go change clothes and go to my real job. Tom Doordash for a while and lots and lots of overtime. That's what he's doing right now. So we're looking at some people who know what it means to be gazelle and tents. Yes. Fantastic.

Well, what kind of debt was the $138,000? A lot of everything. We had a couple of car loans. We had credit cards, a parent plus loan, some medical bills, and just a menagerie. Wow. So what was the point that you, it is. What was the point that you looked at it and said something needs to change here? Well, actually, 10 or 11 years ago, one of my co-workers in one of my previous lives had given me one of Dave's books to read, and I read it and thought, this is really great, and gave the book back to her and went about my life.

Which wasn't very effective. And then I joined Samaritan's purse, and one of the fantastic benefits that they offer is Smart Dollar. Oh, great. And so I joined Smart Dollar and started utilizing everything, watched lots of videos, and still we were kind of ish, but then 2020 happened. And while Tom was considered essential, I thankfully was blessed not to lose my job. We worked our tails off, but did it remotely at home for a few months. But it made me realize that something had to change, like,

because it could have been very easy that we were one of those people. but that lost their jobs. So we kind of got started there, and that's when Tom really got on board. Yeah, I was ish. Yeah, he was happy for me to be the nerd and let me do all of the things that I love. She's the financial guru.

All the details. So, well, not a guru, or we wouldn't have been $138,000 worth of debt. Well, it's interesting to say this, because I love that you mentioned, smart dollar. Smart dollar, obviously, is everything we teach our program for organizations and it goes through as a benefit to HR and all that.

So when you start to experience that and you come home from work and you start telling them, hey, there's this plan. I think it's going to work. You're pretty fired up, I'm guessing. Is that correct? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm fired up. And then Tom, I mean, you had to be going, what?

So what was the hardest part for you to get on board with? I just didn't really pay attention. And I just was like thinking, it didn't really start meaning anything to me until I started getting closer to retirement. For me, it was about, you know, our kids. And they played sports, and we was all involved in that growing up. And I just thought that was just what it was, you know. Right. You just lived with it and you did the best you can with it.

But then the more we went on to it, she was talking to my ear and getting me to watch some of the things on the, you know, the videos and stuff like that. I've memorized the videos, but he was forced to watch them. And about two years ago, you know, started getting able to work a little bit more overtime. So then I started putting in the time and really getting involved. That's awesome. I love that. So what would you tell somebody who's kind of on the fence who says, I've read the book, but I put it back on the shelf? Or I have the benefit available to me, but I don't need that today.

Well, the program works, but you have to work the program for it to work. So reading the book and doing nothing with it. Communication. Yeah, it doesn't work. So just being intentional and doing what you need to, taking the next step, doing the next thing. My problem is that I'm too detail-oriented and I wanted all the things to happen.

I could see the end. I wanted to, like, pull it this way and make it go quicker. So just knowing that there is timing and God's timing, you'll get it done. You just need to be intentional about what you're doing. but yeah definitely communication and making sure that you guys are walking in the same direction because if you're fighting your partner it's never going to work that's right you got to fight the thing that's really the enemy exactly what kind of support systems did you guys have

each other and our two sons our two sons actually we we had one in a senior in high school in 2020 and a senior in college in 2020 we didn't think that through when we had children, eight years of college. But we were committed to cash flow as much of that as we could. And they are both on plans. So they, they were, we talk to them about it all the time and they're working their own plans right now. So I love that. And our grandparent, their kids' grandparents, they took care of them whenever we were working or stuff like that. They helped out. They helped out whenever, sometimes whenever, you know, you need that little extra, you know, and you just, you can't make the ends meet. Sometimes they help out there.

Yeah. I love that. The hardest part for each of you. Tell me, I want people to hear the real, real. What was the hardest part of this journey for each of you? That it took five years. Five years is a long time. I wanted it done. Especially for you checking all the boxes. Yeah, I'm a little obsessive about it. I check my every dollar every day, multiple times a day. I knew when I hit that send button on paying a debt, I wanted it to hit my bank. bank so I could pull it over into the right category. And that was hard for me is the patience part of it. But I think that was a lesson that God was giving me.

Tom, for you, the hardest part? Just getting involved. Just actually, you know, understanding that I needed to put out a, you know, to get rid of the debt. So once I retire, once we retire, we can do the things that, you know, we plan to do with our children. And now the grandchild, our little grandchild, he's amazing. You know, you want to spend time. with him and be able to do the things that you want to do. Yeah.

And that was what I was going to ask. How old are you guys? I'm 55. Okay. 54. 55, 54. And so now on the other side of this, where are your heads and hearts about the future, knowing that you've made it through this and reset your financial future?

Well, Tom's looking forward to retirement, obviously. I can retire in March next year. Oh, the state of Ohio says he can retire in March. He can't retire. Amy said no Amy's made that perfectly clear I plan to be with Samarit's purse for as long as God willing

so it'll be a few years for me but we are looking at we did our three month emergency fund because we want to pay off our house and then we'll back fill that other three months but we're not slowing down we're not taking our foot off the gas you guys are an inspiration to a lot of people

it's possible so here we go Thomas and Amy from Columbus, Ohio area, actually Washington Courthouse, to be specific. They paid off $138,661 in five years, making $101 to $143,000. Congratulations. You guys take it away. Let's hear your debt-free screen. Ready?

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Oh, there it is. There it was. I think we got the real Thomas final. Thomas had it all very. kept buttoned up. That was the correction officer voice. Yeah, it was like, this is what happens if you do something stupid around Thomas. Don't give him a nightstick. Oh,

no, sirree. Uh-uh. Hey, that is so awesome, folks. He can be done. They did it. We're cheering all of you on as well. Keep it up. Our Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 58-11. The Lord will guide you always. satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land and will strengthen your frame. You will be well, excuse me, you will be like a well-watered garden, like a spring whose waters never fail. And our quote of the day from L. David Marquette, leadership is a choice, not a position.

I got to tell you, I got a little distracted. Can I confess something to you? I got distracted to, was it the scripture? It was. Were you thinking about moisture? No, it was about the, and we'll strengthen your frame. And you know where this comes from? Go ahead.

My wife and daughter, Josie, you know them well. Yes, I do. They love Dancing with the Stars. Okay. And I have to deal with that. Yeah, you do. I don't watch it, but I frequent the kitchen, live in your Mary. You've been in our home.

And they're always talking about the one judge who I don't want to insult anybody, but I can't stay in one of the judges. Okay. And he's always carrying on about their frame. Got it. Here I am trying to do my job and read the scripture. and it says, and I will strengthen your frame. And I want to confess to everybody.

I got his judge from dancing with the stars carrying on about your frame. That's funny. I was opposite. I'm reading the part, toss it over here, where he says you'll be a well-watered. Sun-scorched or something. Yeah, you'll be a well-watered garden, a spring whose waters. And I'm thinking about the conversation we had about how you're laughing at me, because I always make Sam put lotion on him to be moisturized.

I wasn't going to bring this up. This is a whole separate subject. Kelly and James. We had dinner with Jade and Sam recently, and it was a 45-minute section of our dinner where Jade and Sam walk through their pre-bedtime lotion routine, and poor Sam has no choice in all of this. I just wanted to be a well-water garden. He is. And she straight up said, I'm going to look great when I'm old.

He has to as well. And the routine that Sam has to go through is nothing short of. of punishment. He has a skin care routine. That you gave him and forced upon him. And you want to know what? When he's 80 and goes like this, the skin is not going to flake off, Ken. He's not going to make it that far. Will you be able to say that?

No. No. And I don't want to. The amount of life he is not living that he spends on lotion. It's, I don't know, it's worth the trade off. But he looks good. Come on. He's a handsome man. He's sexy. Okay. That's what I thought. He's a handsome man. Sharon in Buffalo. Sharon, how can we help? good afternoon jane and kent thank you for taking my call sure uh so my husband i've been married

12 years early on in the marriage we were debt free um but then he took on credit card debt so our finances were separate they've been separate for quite some time oh no uh three days ago i found out that he had been keeping a secret for three years uh oh that he had been keeping a secret for three years that he co-signed on an auto loan with a co-worker that I have never met to this day. Oh, my goodness. And, yeah, and that coworker, who he doesn't even work with him anymore, is struggling with addiction. Oh, no. So there are not making their payments, and he finally told me, my husband there, a tail between his legs.

But, you know, it's very, well, had you talked to me? I would have told you not to do it. Sure. And here we are. So right now, I've ever seen this vehicle. My understanding is that it's probably trashed and it probably smells like cigarette smoke. So I have no interest in taking it over.

How long ago was it? That the loan was taken. Yeah. It's three years ago. Oh, gosh. Do you have any idea on the numbers? In other words, what's owed on it versus what it's worth? Well, one day my husband tells me 20,000. The next day he says 21,000, really and truly how much is this? I don't know. They think that if it were to go to auction, I have no experiences with repo. I don't know how any of that works. That they think they would get $5,000 for it at auction. So it's in bad shape.

Now, did you say that you've already separated finances? yeah okay but we still we both own a home and we would love to try to recombine um he has made an effort because the issues that made us split our finances in the first place that almost split us um it was like okay let's split our finances and i continue to try to live my life that free but every time i try to get ahead i feel like i'm i love him dearly but he's a bit too much of a nice guy making the wrong decisions. Who's facilitating the conversation with you guys? That's helping you see, okay, here's what caused the split.

Here's what must be true for you guys to come back together. Like, is there a counselor helping you with this? There needs to be. I think so, too. Yeah. I think so, too, because what I'm hearing on your end is a woman who's almost done. That's what I'm hearing And I've done there before

But I know that I love him Very, very much But he's It's just like again and again and again and again Right Yeah, and there's that part of me that feels stupid Because it's like, okay, as much as this hurts He's probably going to do it again

Yeah, you need somebody to get in between that Because this has been a wild ride for you and I mean I'm not a marriage counselor I can't help you with that I can look at these numbers but I don't think it's going to solve the problem here today he is he is I'm assuming fully aware of how this makes you feel and what this does to your relationship correct yeah yeah so do you think he's in a situation and again I don't I want to be very careful the word I use here but is this a character issue only, or is this he's got some type of trauma, he's got some type of addiction or

something in his world to where he needs some extra help. It's not just him deciding to act like an adult. I'm just curious your take. I think it's a bit character. I think it's relevant to something tragic that happened on the job with this worker many years ago. Even still, though, regardless of that, it is a pattern. That's right. No question. Sometimes I describe it like if we were, you know, to go to a store and he held the door open for somebody, I might be the third person he let in, but then he's also going to stand there and continue to hold the door open for 80 people.

And I'm going to be standing there like, okay, honey, can we go? So is it an overage of like he's just trying to help everybody too much? Is that what he's spending this money on? Yeah. A crazy generosity? So he's a unhealthy pleaser. Yeah. Got it, got it. Okay, that's insightful. But not for you, weirdly enough. Yeah, you know, but I, and you know what? I hate to say it this way, but there is a silver lining there.

He just needs to figure out the person he actually needs to please a little bit more as you. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Yeah, and not an unhealthy way because he's not healthy. But prioritizing you and what you think and what you want. Is he willing to do therapy? Yeah. So, well, especially the financial piece of it, because I'm not going to lie, I did propose this to AI and said, what do I do? But you don't talk to frickin artificial intelligence. Yeah, I can't be your therapist. You guys need a, so are you in a church, are you in some type of community where you can talk to people and go, I need three or four really great, legitimate recommendations on a therapist? you know, maybe. No, you're not. So you need to figure out who you know that has some credibility that you trust, their judgment, that they've been to a therapist. We're going to have to dig a little bit and uncover. Let's just go to the web and find a local therapist. But I think he's got to commit to

this. You have to say to him, never again. If you want to be in this marriage, we have to get this solve. We have to heal together. We both got our junk. Some of us did it to the other or whatever. There's no scorekeeping here. We got to get healthy. And if we can get healthy, there's a great chance that the money stuff on his end gets healthy. Yeah. So regarding the situation, I mean, the best thing that you're going to be able to do here is he needs to get his hands on the records to find out what is owed on this vehicle. And you guys need to start stacking up some cash so that when the time comes, whether it goes to auction or not, there is going to be a deficit for you to pay and you're going to be on the hook for it. And that's unfortunate, but it's the way

it is. Thank you for the call, but you've got to fight for this. This is a fight for your marriage then the finances. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace in Christ Jesus. what you want to do with your money you need a budget start budgeting for free today with the every dollar app the easiest way to budget track your expenses and reach your goals faster go to every dollar dot com today