The Ramsey Show - App - As a Professor, How Do I Guide My Students? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 11, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm John Deloney, joined here with my good friend and best-selling author, Rachel Cruz, and we are taking calls about your relationships and your money and your mental health and everything going on in your life. Give us a shout, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Let's jump to the phones. Let's talk to Jennifer in Tampa, Florida. Jennifer, what's going on? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. How are you guys? We are outstanding. Thank you so much for giving us a shout. What's going on? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. How are you guys? We are outstanding. Thank you so much for giving us a shout. What's up?

So here's the back story. My husband and I make $140,000. We are saving for retirement. Second baby on the way, have a college fund for our first child. We have about $20,000 in the bank. We have $15,000 emergency fund, baby step six. We have $75,000 in a single stock. And our question is, we're wondering if we should invest in the stock market or if we should pay off our house. We have $200,000 left on our mortgage. The only issue is we know that we're probably going to want to move

within the next five to ten years. Not guaranteed, but we know that we would like to move. We don't believe in a forever house, but we don't think this is our long-term house. Gotcha. Well, y'all are crushing it. Congratulations. We are. We're very black. We've been listening to Dave Ramsey for a while.

That's so great. So you're wondering if you need to pay off the house? Yeah, we're wondering should we pay off the house? Should we save cash for our next house? What is the single stock? We don't have to move. I'm sorry. What's the single stock that this $75,000 is sitting in? Is it work-related stock? Is it stock available from your company, or is it

you just guys went and bought a bunch of stock? It was the company my husband used to work for. He's not investing anymore. Okay. And what other retirement do you guys have, Jennifer? We're doing 15%. You are currently doing 15%?

Yep, we are 401k. Okay, so you're doing that. So what amount of money are you wondering about? Are you wondering about the $75,000 that's in the single stock or the $20,000 that's in the savings account just sitting there that's not the emergency funds? All 20 grand that's in the savings account just sitting there that's not the emergency funds all of that so i mean you got about a yeah about a hundred grand yeah

we're wondering should we take out the stocks um and it's been about 10 years um since we've had that okay um and then yep we have our emergency fund we have twenty thousand dollars in the bank we also transferred another twenty thousand dollars that's in a separate account that we're putting that towards the house every month wow so should we just throw that all on the mortgage so i guess we have forty thousand dollars in emergency funds the emergency fund yeah that's great good for you guys yeah well obviously yeah yeah so from the emergency fund oh separate yes well obviously keep that emergency fund the 15 grand that you said i'm assuming that's your three to six months of expenses leaving that cash in the bank and then everything else combined that that forty thousand dollars in

savings i would cat yeah like that single stock i wouldn't keep in especially since it's a company doesn't work for anymore i mean it's sort of a different story if you want to buy into the company you're in all of that but you guys are out of that. So I would take that out. And I mean, you could hit that house real hard, Jennifer. I mean, you could pay off half the mortgage with just that cash. And how old are you guys? We're 32. 32. Yeah. So you have time for retirement and you guys are still funding 15%, which is awesome. I would continue that 15% out of your 140 income and then I would take some of this and just throw it out the house, Jennifer. Because if you guys, how young you are, I mean, if you guys get to 36 with a paid for home, retirement just going, I mean, you're in a real good spot and i would yeah i would i guess go ahead i guess our only problem is is that we think that well we don't know but we think we might move within the next five to ten years that's right you said that pay off the house that's kind of our so here so if i go back five

years that's three jobs in two states ago for me that i didn't see coming if i go back 10 years that's actually for us too that's even more right So it's good to have this dream on the whole, like depending on the ups and downs of the real estate market, this money is not just going to evaporate on you. On the opposite side, you are going to have no house payment, two young kids. You're going to be able to be a lot more flexible with whatever comes your way. So I'm with Rachel, man. I would pay this house off ASAP, and you are way down the road on that.

I would definitely sell that single stock. Yeah, and even though you guys may be moving, you have a paid-for house. I mean, all that equity, it's not like that money's going down the drain. I mean, you have a paid-for house, so when you sell, you get all the money, Jennifer. Yeah, you get that money back.

It's there, yeah. So, yep, that's what we would do. Thanks, Jennifer. You are crushing it. That's so good, man. All right, let's go to Ashley in Jacksonville. Ashley, that's what we would do. Thanks, Jennifer. You are crushing it. That's so good, man. All right, let's go to Ashley in Jacksonville. Ashley, how's it going? Going good.

How are you? Good, good, good. How can we help? Yeah, so I graduated with my bachelor's degree with zero debt and currently planning to start grad school in the fall. What in? In January. I'm actually looking at either English or humanities.

I'm looking at a career in academia, so I'm trying to figure out where exactly I want to position myself. Gotcha. So in January, I bought a car and put half down, financed the rest. That's my first and only debt. So I currently have $30,000 in savings to cash flow grad school. Awesome. And I'm wondering right now, is it a smart idea to go ahead and just completely kill

the car loan and pay that off before I start grad school? Or should I kind of put that through? How much do you have left on the car? About 10,000. 10 grand. Okay. Yeah, I would go ahead and tackle the car. Because grad school, you're going to have, obviously, it's very expensive, but you have time, chunks of time, right, to pay it as you go. Where if you get this car out of the way, that debt, all your income can go towards, aka investing in yourself, Ashley. I mean putting that money towards grad school to continue afloat, which I believe you can do because you went through undergrad, which you're crazy weird right now. Yeah, you're one in a million.

How did you do that, Ashley? People are wondering that because everyone graduates with student loans. Everyone does. That's normal. How did you do it? Yeah. Yeah. So I had really great supportive parents.

So I lived with them for the first bunch of school. I actually went to the community college. I got two associate degrees through there and worked through school. So I was paying as I went. I also was able to get a pretty good GPA. So I got a scholarship to go to university. And I actually was able to finish up university in only three semesters because I had done so much through the community college. And your degree is from the university that you wanted,

and you paid a fraction of it because of what you did. Ashley, you're so smart. So smart. Well done. Well done. Pay that car off. And before, my mom is an English professor. Those jobs are hard to come by these days.

So before you go to grad school, sit down with a person who works in that field and get some real-life information about what that lifestyle is like, what the money on that life is going to be, and what the day-to-day is going to be. It's usually different than people think it is. The ROI.

It's a hard life. It's a hard life. Beautiful. We need good English professors, but it's tough. In an uncertain world, being a good steward of your money is more important than ever. While some circumstances can't be controlled, there are items within your budget you can take charge of, such as your health care costs. For nearly 40 years, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, has provided a budget-friendly means of sharing for medical bills when our members need it. Learn more by visiting chministries.org slash budget.

That's chministries.org. personality, taking your calls on life and money. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use promo code Ramsey to get the best deal. Rules and restrictions apply. Rachel? Today's question comes from Herb in New York. I'm a history professor at an expensive private university. Students from my department will most likely not go on to make a six-figure income as most of them want to teach. Part of my job is to recruit students into my departments, but I cannot in good conscience tell them to take out loans. I know most of them do because they couldn't afford private tuition otherwise.

What do I say to students to get them to my department, but at the same time being realistic that my major is maybe not the best thing for their financial future? That's a hard one. John, what do you think? Oh, future. That's a hard one. John, what do you think? Oh, man. That's hard. For this particular person, yeah, the values of their institution, the values of the place that pays for their paycheck is not in line with the values that sit on his pillow every

night. And one of the questions I would have if Herb was just hanging out here and we were having a cup of coffee and he's asking me the same question, it would go deeper than that for me because he's doing a good job of distancing himself from this issue and making it a moral and ethical issue for them, not for him. The reality is his business is supported by something he doesn't believe in. So it's not so much as, you can flip this around, right?

He doesn't want students to go into debt and he's having a hard time encouraging them to take on debt to get a degree that he knows they're going to struggle to pay back. But deeper than that, where I want to challenge Herb is, you're taking a salary from a company that doesn't align with your values.

And he's got a hard question. He's taking care of these students, but he's not really getting to the root of the question, which is, do I believe in where I even work? And we've taken calls on this show like, hey, I wanted to work in finance my whole life, my whole life, and I got my first job out of college at a local bank, and all I'm doing is selling loans, right? And I spent all this time getting out of debt, and I don't think I can keep doing this, right?

And so I think everybody, everybody has to have that hard conversation. Does what put food on my table align with my values. Yep. And you don't always have to go running for the hills, right? Like I got to quit today and I'm going to. Sure, sure, sure. But I do think that's a worthy conversation to have. Herb, I'm going to tell you, I know a number of people.

I've had this exact conversation with a number of my friends across the United States. Some of them have said, I've got to get out of working in higher ed. I can't keep doing this. Some have made a transition from a private, expensive private school to a community college. Some of them have just said, man, this is what it is what it is. Students are grown-ups. They can choose to make this decision on their own and we're going to keep plowing ahead. The value proposition is different from everybody, but man, Herb, you're not going to be able to sleep.

I'm telling you right now based on that question. What do you recommend to folks who are balancing, yeah, I don't believe in where I work anymore? It's a complete mind shift, right? From what you saw was okay and normal to suddenly realizing in probably his own life, oh, wow, I hate debt. I'm going to get out. And now I'm here ushering a new generation right into it, knowing that they're going to get jobs that aren't going to even support them financially to pay off the debt like well and if you're any kind of professor who obviously herb's good at what he

does just because of this this the the depth of this question you talk to students all day long yeah and you hear what's on their heart and mind and what's number one on their heart and mind is i'm never gonna be able to pay this back ever i'm never gonna be able to pay this back so this is probably a bigger question that you can answer but you worked kind of in the sector in life like you've for a long time yeah you've been a part of it so how do we and again it's a bigger conversation but prop the next generation to say yes education is good and we need people in all these fields right like the last call we just took was about an english professor uh his wasn't it yeah it's about wanting to be an english professor yes and all that and the roi and yes uh going to school

and grad school and all that and you mentioned yeah just make sure you talk to someone that's been in that world so you know so like how do we keep all of that because we need that in our society like we need english professors we need people that are getting degrees in fields that are not supported financially do you know i'm saying that the degree is so expensive like it's just it feels like a not a lost cause but it's defeating it's sitting in our seat because i'm like man you believe in all that stuff and you and you love the people in those institutions and they're great but it just feels like it's broken yeah i think that's what it comes down to is i am i am somebody who believes deeply that we have let go the arts. We have let go English.

We have let go the ability to read and discern. Some of these problems we're having now, writers have been writing on this stuff for hundreds, if not thousands of years, right? But we don't teach history anymore.

We don't teach some of these things anymore because it's all about ROI. What's the ROI on this job? We get a coding job. So I think we lose something. I really, really do. Yeah. And you can't charge What's the ROI on this job? Get a coding job. So I think we lose something. I really, really do.

And you can't charge $150,000 for a job. It's a bad investment. So you're going to make $40,000. That's right. You can't do that. So I think it's both. And I think everybody in this conversation has to put it on the table. Sure. And I will say I know a number of higher ed leaders that are trying to fix it from inside out.

I know a number of tech companies that are trying to fix it from inside out. I know a number of tech companies that are trying to solve it from the outside. And we all got a great lesson this last year. Man, just throwing everything online isn't going to solve it either. That has been miserable. And we also learned a lot. How can you make online learning better?

Because it could be cheaper. You're right, it's a mess. And we need some grown-ups to stop acting like kids and actually say we're going to be a part of some of these solutions. And there are some really bold higher ed leaders who are making some major changes. There are some bold tech folks who are weighing in. So I think we're going to see some significant shifts.

And I hope, hope, hope, for the sake of our kids, it's not at the expense of reading and history and music, but it's at the expense of, man man it's not a four-year vacation anymore yeah right that's right that was a moment that's what's wild is that the four-year institution college as what we knew when we went probably like it is what it is it was affordable you could you know i mean all of it i mean and not that you can't still go to school debt-free we just got a call from someone that did you can figure it out you can do it yes you can but it's it has shifted

and bring in 2020 when most universities were closed and it was online you have to figure it out yeah it's just I mean it's

it's a shifting we don't have a solution if however many millions of 18 year olds just hit the job market tomorrow

we can't absorb that either right so it's not as simple as close on the college. That's a bad decision. Sure, sure, sure. And so it is going to take some leadership, which is the key here.

And some people being really honest about what tomorrow is going to look like. And some people not getting what they want, et cetera, et cetera. And that brings us back to Herb. You're going to have to have a hard conversation with the mirror, my brother. And not only about these students,

you're going to have to have a hard conversation about where does your income come from? Do you align with the values of where you draw a paycheck from? And can you do what your job asks you to do? And if your job is asking you to do something that violates your core value system, you've got to find a job, man.

You've got to. And that's not just hire ready. That's what I'm saying. That's every job I can think of. That's it. Or you work at a gas station and you get a new manager that's not just hire ready. That's what I'm saying. It's every job I can think of. Yep. That's it. Or you work at a gas station and you get a new manager that asks you to do stuff. Right?

It's everywhere. You got to have those core set of values and say, this is where my line is. Yes. Right? Yes. Which is part of knowing yourself. And that's a lot of the stuff you talk about. You got to know yourself.

Is the self-awareness of that. I mean, it's huge. Understanding why you do the things you do. That right and and where you come yeah you talk about it too i think all of us distill down to this idea of you got to be intentional you got to be intentional that's right all right russell let's uh russell let's go to russell i'm just gonna say russell about eight times here russell in virginia beach what's up russell how are we doing hey how are y'all today i appreciate you taking my call. Oh, hey, brother, listen.

I messed up the clock here. Hang on here, and we're going to roll you over, and we'll get you right after this break. I should have just kept talking. I'm not going to lie. I thought, well, I talk about self-awareness. Should we talk about self-awareness for 30 seconds? We'll get there.

Russell, we'll come to you soon. We'll be right back, Russell. This is The Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225. We're taking your calls on life and money. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. We're going back to Russell in Virginia Beach. Russell, what's going on, brother? Russell, are you there, my man?

Yeah, I'm here. One of the key things about answering the phone is actually picking it up. Sorry about that. So what's up, man? I'm definitely here. Hey, I'm seeking some advice today. Go for it. I'm quickly approaching about 35 years of service in the Navy.

Thank you. Congratulations, man. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that. It's been an awesome experience. So I recently bought a home when we transferred back to Virginia. The home was about a half million bucks. And my wife and I have no credit card or car loans. The home is really it.

And so we've done pretty well. We've got about 400 in mutual funds, which we continue to invest in. We've got another roughly 230 between Roth IRA and Roth PSP and continue to contribute to that. We've got about 115 in cash. So my question is, is it a smart move knowing that I'm going into retirement at least from the military and to take a large chunk of money, say $300,000 out of my mutual funds to put on the house, which would allow me to pay the house off by like $20,000, $29,000. If you pulled out the three, how much do you owe on the house total today? $490,000.

$490,000. Okay. Now, all the mutual funds you just rattled off, a lot of them are Roths. Are they all retirement-specific mutual funds? No, no, no. The $400,000 of it is just mutual funds. Oh, it's just a mutual fund. Okay. So no penalties if you cash that out. There's no retirement penalties there. No, it's just tax, right?

Yep, yep. Yeah, I mean, Russell, if I were you, if you if you wanted to take a chunk and throw it at the house because your other retirement, I mean, you have some other retirement, the ones you you just named. Yeah. My first year out of service, my retirement will be 80,000. Take them. yes i i would if i were you um again i would not take out for those listening i would not cash out retirement in order to pay off the home no i wasn't planning on touching that exactly but the mutual fund i mean you have 400 in it yeah you could take a chunk of it and throw it at the house because a goal um obviously is to pay off the home and to be able to you'll be getting that 80 grand from your service. And you'll, you have these other,

these other vehicles for retirement, which you can live off of as well. So having a paid for close to paid for paid for home in that big time is, is huge. So Russell, I'm, I'm curious, 30 years in the service.

And now you're thinking you're transitioning out to become a civilian. What are you going to do? That's the million-dollar question. I have some ideas. I have a side hustle. I breed snakes. Whoa, hey, that's what my little brother does. My brother does that too.

Yep, I've been doing it for about 20 years okay what kind of snakes i want to know it doesn't make a lot of money but it brings in about 20 a year yeah wow that's a pretty good gig do you use real live mice or frozen ones frozen there you go that's a true breeder right there we could really get off the rails on this conversation, Russell. I like you, man. We could, we could. Go ahead. I was going to say, I'm 100% with Rachel. I love the idea of you having

that great military pension, which you've earned every penny of, and having a paid-for house, or really close to a paid-for house. And, man, getting to jet-set off whatever the rest of your life is going to be. Having the greatest reptile sale online salesman in the country, man. Russell the Snake Man.

I love it. All right, let's go to Maggie in San Diego. Maggie, what's going on? Hi, thank you for taking my call. I'm new to the program, so I'm just starting off in the baby steps. I'm on number two. Welcome to our band of weirdos, Maggie. We're glad that you're here.

Thank you, thank you. So I moved in with my aunt to be her full-time caregiver. And three years ago, she put my name on her. We did a grant deed. But now I'm debating if I should sell my house, since house prices are skyrocketing right now in order to pay off her house as well as pay off the rest of my debt. Because if I keep the house, my house, I could use it as an investment, you know, later on down the line and have that as a secure monthly income. But if I sell it off now, that's like a quick way to kind of get ahead.

Sure. Maggie, how much debt do you have that you want to pay off? The only debt I have is my car payments for my kids, and that's about $28,000. $28,000. Car payments for your kids. Why aren't they paying their own car payment?

Well, I did make some comments to my kids before they went off to college that I'd buy them a car so they wouldn't have to worry about transportation. So, you know, I'm still making the payments on them. All right. That's another phone call. That's another phone call. Maggie, so you have those car payments, $28,000, and that's it, except for your aunt's home that you are now on the deed of.

And how much is the home? Her house, there's probably about $130,000 left on her house, on my house, that I'm not even living in right now. My husband is there pretty much by himself. It's about $280,000 left that we owe on that. $280,000. And how owe him. $280,000. And how much is it worth? How much equity would you get from it? It's worth about $600,000.

Oh, wow. Okay. And how much is your aunt's house worth? Probably about $550,000, something like that. $500,000. Okay. And so your husband is in your home. Yeah.

So does he want to move in with your aunt? Is he on board with this? Well, he doesn't want to, but he's going to have to. Well played. Well played. That sounds like y'all should probably have a breakfast together and talk about this. What's the plan here for, is your aunt terminal? Are you planning on taking over the home after?

Is she going to have to move to a care at some point, to skilled nursing or something? We're going to take care of her here because I am a nurse, so she'll be the best care for me. And is there any other family drama that doesn't like this that are sending you mean notes about it? Or is everybody happy that, hey, you take the house, you take Ant, and we're going to move on?

Mm-hmm. Yes, sir. Mm-hmm. Everyone's okay with it. I mean, they know I'm the closest one to, that's why she put me in the, she did a grant deed when her husband died. Got you.

So we wouldn't have a problem with it. Okay. It's been, I, I, I don't, I, my, my hesitation, Maggie, is you putting your money on a home that the deed is split. So it's not your entire home. It is her home. So that feels a little messy to me. I would rather it be her home or your home that you take over and you say, I'm going to just, that you're, you know, aunt, you're sick.

You don't need the burden of this. I'm going to just buy it from you. And there'd be a clean line there. So that's one conversation I would probably have, Maggie. This feels a little bit convoluted with both of you on the deed. I don't really care for that. But also,

yeah, if you're not living in the house and you guys are going to be living with your aunt for the foreseeable future, you don't need your other home. But also, the car payments are $28,000, which is a lot, but you could work and pay that off, keep the home, rent it out, do something with it because it has great equity. So it's basically do you want to mess with the home, do you not?

Because if you had $150,000 in student loan debt, this probably would be a different conversation. But the $28,000, you probably could put the pedal to the metal and get it paid off quick and still have your home if you wanted to keep it. Or you could say, it's not even worth the trouble messing with renters, any of that. We're going to just cash out, get the equity out, pay off that and have a big chunk of change in the bank, which feels good to me as well.

What's the status of your marriage? Well, that's a whole other conversation, sir. Okay. Like I said, I just started with a baby. We've been married for 21 years. We've never mixed our finances ever. Okay. But that's something that I do want to start doing now.

Yeah, absolutely. I just felt like it was a waste to, you know. I have that second house. I totally get that. It's not uncommon that couples who have been in your situation, they've had parallel lives, have been married for a long time, they've had a great relationship, but they haven't been fully together, then one of them goes to be a primary caregiver for somebody else,

and the whole thing comes unglued. So I want you to go get with your husband and y'all have some hard conversations about what the next 20 years are going to look like. You guys got to do this together. Otherwise, you're going to end up all by yourself. And I don't want that for either. Okay. Be thinking about your marriage.

Hang in there, Maggie. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day comes from Daniel 10, 14, and came to make you understand what it is to happen to your people in the latter days. For the vision is four days yet to come. Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it.

The time will pass away. Earl Nightingale. That's kind of deep. Hold on. Let's hear that again. Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it.

The time will pass anyway. It's going to pass anyway, so might as well put it toward a dream. There's a couple that my wife knows back in Texas. They were talking about, they were like 35, and they were chit-chatting with one another. And they were both like, man, we both wanted to go to med school and be doctors. And they went and talked to somebody, and the person said, well, here's the deal. You're going to be 42 anyway. The question y'all aren't asking is, do we go to med school or not?

It's when you're 42, do you want to be doctors or not? Yeah. And it's going to happen that way. So why not? Right. What is the obsession with it? So I love that quote, man. Figure it out.

So good. Both my parents have made major shifts later in life, and it just adds a whole new universe. I was going to say, I think that's a fun story. When I hear people that, yeah, they get to their 50s or 60s, like, you know what? I'm going to, and they just, whatever it is. Yeah. And you're like, man, they just started this whole new life. A whole new life.

And it's almost how you see it, right? That it's not the end. No. You're just, man, they just started this whole new life. A whole new life. It's almost how you see it, right? But it's not the end. No. You're just... I just want to slide in the end with no tread left on the tire. Yeah, that's right. That's right. All right, let's go to Bethany in Scranton, Pennsylvania, home of The Office.

How are we doing, Bethany? I'm good. How are you? Good. Are you an Office fan or do you get beat up with that all the time? Hey, my husband turned me into an office fan. Well, you married well. Way to go, Bethany.

Before we lived in Scranton. Thank you. You married well. So what's up? How can we help? Thank you. I have a quick question. I'm a stay-at-home mom, and my husband and I have been on baby steps, excuse me, four-ish for a while. We're not quite at the 15%.

And I was just wondering if you would ever recommend lowering that 15% just so that we can have some movement in baby steps five and six. How old are you guys, Bethany? I am 33. We're both 33. Okay. And how much do you guys make? My husband makes a little under $50,000 a year. Okay. And you're a stay-at-home mom, you said.

I am. Yes. So the mathematical reason for the 15% is that it will guarantee that you will get to retirement with dignity, that you will have the money to be able to live your dreams and all of that. And so that 15%, we stick pretty hard on just to ensure that that's going to happen. But you guys, for the income and for your house specifically, because your kid's college, you're not a bad parent if you don't pay for your kid's college. Like we've talked on here that you can send them to school. They can do community college for a few years, transfer to a state school.

Like they can have a great. And honestly, by the time your kids are in college, as we've been talking, who knows what that world is going to look like. So if you don't have the cash to be able to invest right now in your kid's college, you're not a bad parent. But looking ahead at the house, how much do you guys owe on the house? I think around 86. Around 86. Okay. Yeah.

So I would, if I were you, Bethany, I would stick with that 15% for a little bit longer. And then just, I would almost start, because of your income and everything, start chipping away a little bit at the house. If you have any to throw towards an ESA or something, it would be very helpful for your kids. I mean, that's in the order of the baby steps for sure. But it's just going to be a little bit at a time. Like it may not just be this huge,

you know, it's not this huge shovel that you have that you're throwing all this money at and all that, right? I mean, you guys are having to be very, very diligent to do it all. That was my question, Rachel. Bethany, what's your husband do? My husband's a pastor. He's a pastor there? Awesome.

Is there a potential for him to pick up some additional income on the side for a few years to knock that house out? He could. If someone is going to be driven in our house to do it, it would probably be me. Ah, okay. So we're just, not that he's not driven, but he's carrying a lot of hats.

Gotcha. Just he's the only pastor on staff. Yep. Which means he's the pastor and plumber and yard guy and hospital chaplain. What's y'all's take-home pay, Bethany, a month? How much y'all make a month? A month? Just shy of $4,000, I think.

And how much is that mortgage payment? Oh, it's around $650. Okay. Yeah, that's not terrible at all. That percentage. We're trying. Yeah, absolutely.

You're doing it. There's been seasons of my life when they've been just that, which are seasons. Which are we can continue to somebody stay home, we're going to keep in this job and we can do it for this season for the next two years or three years or five years. And then there becomes the math problem, right? We either have to get to a point where we can pay this off or we have to get to a point where we can reach that retirement goal, right?

Otherwise, you're going to continue, you're going to find yourself 43 and 53, and you're going to be in a very similar boat, right? And you're not going to be any further towards any of these goals at all, right? And that's a hard place to be. Good for you and your family, though, for having your values and knowing who you are and what you want to be about, and then you're going to make it happen. Absolutely. It's a little bit of that contentment issue, too, Bethany, you know, because unless something changes with his salary as a pastor or something drastic, I mean, yeah, the numbers are. And I think, you know, God's called you to this place if that's what you, you know, you guys are in it for a reason.

I believe in that discernment in your life and your husband's life that you guys have chosen this because, you know, you're called to it. And so it is, it's just going to, there's going to be a level of contentment that you're probably going to have to find as a stay-at-home mom, too. I can just speak as a wife, right? Like, I mean, you're on Instagram and Facebook and see it all. And so there's just a level of saying, hey, God has us here for a reason, and it's not going to be big and flashy.

We're not going to pay off the house in two years. I mean, that's not going to be the story, but that's okay. That's okay. But you guys are staying diligent, being smart with the money that you do have. And so you guys are staying diligent, being smart with the money that you do have. And so you guys are doing great. As somebody who we've had this in our home, you've had to make decisions like, am I going to take this speaking gig for this much money?

Oh, sure. Am I going to stay at home? Oh, 100%. And there's a real true cost to my values are here, right? Whatever they may be, right? And it's getting to that. How do you help somebody get to that contentment? Because I struggle with that.

It's hard. I made this choice, but living with what that choice means can be hard. Yes, very much so. I mean, I feel like gratitude is one of the first places to start. And I know it's kind of like the cheesy answer, but it's true.

But it's Christine Kane. I love what she says. She says that gratitude is not thankful for what he's given us. It's to be thankful for what he's entrusted to us. So everyone's life looks different of what's, what I believe in a spiritual sense, right? God has entrusted to you and what you have.

And so being grateful for that, um, I think a level of it is humility and giving and serving and knowing that the world's not all about you. And that you looking up to say, okay, what can I do to serve and help people in Bethany and y'all's entire life is that. You're one of service and it's an amazing calling.

So there's a lot of that. And I think there takes a level of maturity too. Emotional and spiritual maturity, right? To be able to kind of say, okay, we're here. It's not always fun. I'm choosing to stay at home.

I really want to go out to eat tonight. Right. But we made this choice. That's right. And not beating yourself up when you have those secondary thoughts, right? Yes. Those, why can't we just go to Florida

like everybody else? Because we chose this. Yeah. And you can have both and. Yes. Yes. That's right. And it's hard.

I remember talking. I had two sets of friends and two were lawyers here in Nashville and just working insane hours. I mean, like kids were in daycare. She had mom guilt. It was terrible. But they were doing it because they said at the end of it, or like, we'll get to a point where we don't have to work these hours, but we're going to make a big income so that we

can enjoy, take our kids on vacation. We want them to have experiences, whatever it is. So they valued that, right or wrong. People probably have opinions, but that is what they chose. Or I had another friend, four kids. He's a teacher, history teacher and coach. And she stays at home. So talk about a tight budget.

And they just figured it out. And they said, yeah, we know we can't do all these things, but this is what we're choosing. And that's the beautiful thing about all of this. There's a level of choice that we have of what you value. And when you live out of those values, that's where the joy and contentment can come. It goes back to contentment, right. Versus chasing it someone else's that doesn't work for you. Well, that's another show on the books. I want to thank James Childs and Kelly Daniel for their incredible engineering work and call screening action.

Thanks to my good friend Rachel Cruz. This has been The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell your story.