The Ramsey Show - App - Avoiding the Trap of Enabling Toxic Family Members (Hour 1)

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, best-selling author, is my co-host today as we talk about your relationships, your boundaries, your mental health, your job, your career, and your money. It's what we do every day on The Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Andrew's with us in L.A., California, Los Angeles. Hi, Andrew.

How are you? I'm doing awesome. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my wife and I were going over our tax information, and we were having a slight disagreement, but not necessarily on the details, just on like the general way in which we're looking at things. I'm wanting to max out my SEP IRA. I'm a freelancer. I've been maxing out my SEP IRA pretty much since I got it.

And she feels like we have more than enough saved in retirement, and she doesn't see why we would keep putting so much money in a lockbox that has a do not open until 60 lock on it. Okay. Well, it should be a Roth IRA to start with, not a traditional. Yeah, well, we have two Roth IRA iras she has one and i have one we max that out and then i have my step ira which is i don't think there is a rock option for the step ira yeah that's what i yes sir yes there is yeah so you can't you can do a rock there is yeah okay now how much are you putting in the set? Yeah, I guess. This year it would be around $40,000,

and then we're also doing the $6,000 into each of the Roths. Right. So it would be $52,000 that we would be putting in. What's your household income? Investments per year. It changes year to year. Somewhere in the $150,000 to $200,000 range is take-home. You're going to have it.

Is your home paid for? Yes.'re 100 debt-free yes okay um how old are you 33 what are the balances of the of these accounts currently? Let's see. The SEP IRA, I haven't looked at it, like, recently because they just took a nasty hit, but it's somewhere around 385, and then about 100 in my Roth IRA, and then about 53 in her Roth IRA, and then we have a couple 401Ks that we have yet to convert to IRAs for complicated reasons. And those have about 40 between the two of those. Okay.

Well, you're right. It's a philosophical argument more than anything else. The only reason that I would agree with her would be if you want to do some investing outside of these because you've got enough going in to create what we would call bridge accounts, to bridge between now and 59 1⁄2 if you wanted to access some of the wealth before 59 1⁄2. Because you've got $600,000 at 33 years old. If you keep that in good growth stock mutual funds, you're going to be in really, really good shape in those accounts without adding anything to it. So, but I'm always of the opinion if I can keep the government's hands off the money,

I'm going to keep their hands off of it. If you have zero other investments, though, she probably has a bit of a point. Does she want to invest the money or spend it? Does she want to buy real estate, go buy a rental house or something, or does she want to invest the money or spend it? Does she want to buy real estate, go buy a rental house or something, or does she want to get cooler cars? Probably more the former. I don't think that there's a specific idea of what she wants to do with it. It's just a matter of when we look on the Ramsey investment calculator, how we're going to have tens of millions of dollars by the time they retire anyway she's like what okay what why why are we building this up even more we're already like well the reason you're building up more is your but the reason you're building up more is you're building wealth

and all the things that you can do with wealth which is generosity and change your family tree and all those kinds of things the only point that i would agree with her on is not not is it you know can you save too much no you can't save too much? No, you can't save too much. I mean, unless you don't have a life, you need to have a life in there in your budget. But you don't have a payment in the world. You've done very, very well at 33 years old living in Los Angeles. I mean, my gosh, you're killing it. So the only reason she would have a point would be if you wanted to access some of the wealth prior to 59 1⁄2 for something, to do something with. In our case, I'll give you an example.

We had 1,000 years ago, it feels like we had saved up $150,000 in a non-retirement mutual fund. And I found a little lake house, a very little lake house that uh on a really nice lot and it was the first thing we ever bought that wasn't like our home to survive it was like it was like the first toy thing luxury thing we bought we bought a lake house but i mean it was like a it's like a thousand square foot brick 1974 you know it wasn't it wasn't like a palace or anything but and it was an estate we got a deal on foot brick 1974 you know it wasn't it wasn't like a palace or anything but and it was an estate we got a deal on it at the time and it was the year 2000 uh so it's 22 years ago you know and and i bought it for 103 000 and i took some of that money and did that

now that's long before obviously i was 59 and a half so it was good that i had that money other wealth to be able to do something like that and and that's probably the stage that you're heading towards can somebody who's done as well as he had i never thought about this till just now can you play this the retirement game so well that you make it yourself completely you lack liquidity so much you almost trap yourself because if he has a couple of down years he may have a million dollars in these retirement accounts but no other yeah no other money you're not you're not trapped but that's the point i mean you're gonna she's onto something is what you're saying and i'm saying i'm just wondering yeah yeah that's uh that you could go ahead and start doing some

other just um mutual fund investing something like a low turnover mutual fund maybe just an s&p 500 which is what i pulled that lake house money out of. And you build that money up and then you say, okay, we're going to do something else with that investment wise or we're going to do something else with that consumption or generosity wise. Does that S&P mutual fund earned less return than these retirement accounts? No, but it's taxable. Okay. And the Roth IRA, whatever mutual fund is's taxable okay and the roth ira is

whatever mutual fund is not taxable right okay so that's the difference and it is if you leave alone a year it's taxable at a capital gains rate a lower rate but you know it's a way to park some money that you can get to without any penalties and with limited taxation gotcha until you until as a bridge to get between now and 59 and a�2 to be able to access some of it. So, yeah, you're probably needing to do some of that at this stage. You've done so well. Congratulations. That was a beautiful, beautiful thing you pulled off.

Very, very fun. Man, that is fun, man. Yeah, and what a great discussion. I know. I mean, we're on Baby Step 7. House is paid for. We live in L.A. We make $150,000 a year.

My wife and I are sitting and looking at stuff, and the only argument we've got is how we do investing. These are not things that people deal with very often, unless they've been very, very intentional. And really, really good stuff. Congratulations. Well done. Well done. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey

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Hi, Clayton. How can Dr. John and I help? Hi, you guys. It's nice to speak with you. You too. I saw you in the Smart Conference at Sacramento. My wife and I went down before the pandemic, and so it's really fun to be able to see that and be a part of that.

Well, thank you. We're doing another one finally in Dallas before the pandemic, and so it's really fun to be able to see that and be a part of that. Well, thank you. We're doing another one finally in Dallas in the fall, October 22nd. Maybe you can come down for it. Yeah, we'd love to. So I do have a question. I have grown siblings. My wife and I are doing pretty well. We're on baby step six, and our annual combined salary is around $200,000.

We have close to $600,000 in our 401k. We both have pens. You know, we're doing really well. So we only owe $155,000 on our house, and it's worth over $400,000. Wow. So the question that I have is with my siblings. My sister and I were adopted when we were little. My mom proceeded to have two more siblings after we were adopted out. And we recently got in contact with them about four years ago.

So we're all in our 50s now. And the trauma from being in an alcoholic home has really caused a lot of damage over the years. The three other siblings don't really have a whole lot going on financially or otherwise. But the problem for my wife and I is because we're doing so well, we feel bad when we can't help them or we don't help them, you know, with finances or anything like that. And we feel like we're doing wrong when we do because we feel like we're enabling the situation. So I guess we just need some guidance on how to deal with that situation. That's hard, man. I'm so sorry. Well, that's the beginning of our story. I mean, we haven't finished yet. Our story's still going. So, I mean, she was pretty rough. I mean, she...

Do they call you? I mean, do they call you and hit you up for money? How does that interaction work? It's small stuff. It's usually I can't meet the expenses. Like, one of my brothers couldn't pay for his rent. And then another one, when we went to see our brother, he didn't have enough money to get back home. And then my sister, I've been helping her for years with money because she's just now she's disabled and she gets a disability check, but she just doesn't have, she isn't able to make ends meet, you know? So it's a really tough situation for us. You know, I get up at 4am and go to work every day. I have. I'm 30 years at the same job.

And so we earn that money and we feel like we're doing the right thing, but we just need to know where to put or what to do with all that. So we're kind of at a loss as far as is it okay to help them or are we enabling that behavior? You know, I don't know them well enough to just speak on their lives. Yeah, except this. When somebody invites themselves into your life to ask you for your resources, that is permission, as far as I'm concerned, to then speak on the utilization of that money.

Right? How is this money helping or hurting somebody? Yeah, if you have the guts to ask me for money, I have the guts to tell you how to use it because it's mine right and the idea that you're a bank account or a blank check for other people that's complete dysfunction that's right that's right that's just guilt well there's no doubt that dysfunctions there we're all native american and in the native american community it's it's a different it's kind of a different dynamic because we really give. I mean, we try to have –

My heart is a giving heart, you know, and I feel bad, you know, when I don't have them. So here's the thing. You use the word help, and when you're giving, you should help. So you need to define help differently. Help is not giving a drunk a drink that's enabling that's not help help is not participating in funding someone's delusions or craziness or misbehavior that's not help so if when you give them money if as a result of you giving them money they're not better then you didn't help you made yourself feel better for a few days and you made them feel better for a few days and now

they go back to the exact same behavior that's not a native american thing that's an enabling thing in any culture. So you're not helping when you give a drunk a drink. And that's the classic line about enabling. You're not helping. Enabling, when I'm an enabler, and I'm not very often, but I have been at times, I get caught in some kind of crossfire, some kind of triangulation or something,

and I feel like I'm caught, and I've got to do this, and I feel trapped. And it's all a false premise, but I get myself in there just like everybody else does. And I feel like I'm helping, but they're not better when I'm done. Then they didn't move along to a better life, you know, then I didn't really help. It's kind of like telling people what they want to hear just so they'll feel okay. And yet that didn't really help them. Instead, we have to tell them the truth on this show. And sometimes you're so harsh.

No, I just love you enough to tell you the truth because I want you to be better after our conversation, which would be better after I give you this check. And so if I'm giving money to your brother for rent and to my brother for rent if i'm you it's going to sound like okay here's what this comes with okay we're all trying to survive this train wreck of a family and we're all trying to get better and i'm willing to help you with your rent if you get better and that means you're going to get on a budget and you're going to send me a copy of the budget before i send you the money and you're going to promise me that you're going to read this total money makeover book or you're going to go to this financial peace university class i'll pay for it but you've got to go you've got to get better i'm going to

use the money as leverage in their life to lift them not that's good advice not to participate in their stuff and let's be honest the response is going to be who do you think you are oh mr fancy and you're going to say i'm your brother and i love you exactly you don't owe an explanation for who i who i think i am is i think i'm the guy with the money over here that cares about you and i love you that's right i care about you and so i'm going to dangle this money right in front of your freaking nose to help you. Can I tell you this to be prepared for, Clayton? One or two of them, of your siblings, won't take it. And you will be the bad guy for trying to make long-term help.

Okay? Prepare your heart for that. And that doesn't mean that you failed. That means that they're still struggling. Right? Yeah. Yeah, that's understood. Yeah, when you won't participate in their deal, then they go there.

And so, you know, the thing is this. The version of you that they create in their head is not your responsibility. If they want to make you into the villain and they say you you can't control somebody making you into a villain when you're doing the right thing that's going to happen sometimes you do the right thing and people call you villain that's right and they write a narrative in their own brain that you're a villain they don't get a vote and you know you just don't understand you're not like a real part of our family you know and you uh you done got uppity hadn't you you know and all this stuff and yeah yeah whatever that's exactly what happened i guess but what really happened is i love you so much

i ain't participating in crazy no more bud that's what we're doing here some true help yeah and that's not tough love. That's real love. Thank you. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, best-selling author. The brand-new book on pre-sale, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, a not-so-complicated approach to relationships, mental health, and wellness. This book is absolutely stunning and amazing. If you have not bought your pre-order copy yet, the actual shipping will happen in early April when the book actually launches, but we're on pre-sale right now.

If you haven't bought your copy, you should. You get a month of counseling with the folks at BetterHelp, and you get the audio book and the e-book. And, you know, the total package is worth hundreds of dollars, so you really need to check this out, all for a $20 book. You don't want to miss that at all. So own your past, change your future at RamseySolutions.com. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtbt Free Stage, Jason and Ashley are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

Hey, Dave. Welcome. Welcome. Where do you guys live? Goose Creek, South Carolina, right outside Charleston. Oh, yeah. Beautiful area. Well, welcome.

It's good to have you guys. Good to see you. And how much debt have you paid off? Almost $77,000 of soul-crushing debt. Oh, right. It's a particular type of debt, John, soul-crushing. Yeah, and so how long did this take? About 26 months.

We started in September 2019, ended November 2019. Wow. 2021. Oh, sorry. Thank you. Very good. Very good. And your range of income during that two years?

It went from $46,000 to $103,000. Wow. What do you all do for a living? She is a payroll specialist for a local municipality, and I am a vehicle appraiser for a very progressive insurance company. Oh. See what he did there. See what he did there. That was a very good quote.

I was an honor student. I got that one. He slipped that right through there so how'd you double your income um well whenever we first started out um well i could go back a little bit i first started listening to you in uh 2010 and um we really didn't do anything about it i'd just run home and tell her i heard this crazy guy on the radio and he was talking about all this and i get excited but I never really led my family and said, let's do this. Fast forward a few years, I get into a really bad accident at work,

led me to have to leave my job and spent three years without a job where this beautiful lady supported me while I took care of the kids at home. And I started to kind of get to that feeling where I thought maybe they wouldn't be or they might be better off without me. But I battled through that, got a bunch of insurance certifications, battled my way into my job. And then my wife told me that she was wanting to leave her job, and it really worried me. I wasn't that supportive of a husband. I spent 14 years in retail pharmacy. Oh. Yes.

That will take your soul like that debt wheel, won't it? Oh, it did. It was soul-crushing. So I just got to a point where I was in a place where I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I just looked at him and said, I'm leaving. Yeah. I'm done.

I was like, I will come up with a plan, but right now, I'm leaving. Yeah. I'm done. So I will come up with a plan. But right now I'm done. Yeah. So that's who was who was making the 46 when you started this? He was. He was. OK, so you were out, but then you got a new job.

Yeah. And that's how it doubled. Yeah. Got it. OK. The amazing thing was whenever we got into the class, she actually came to me and said they're offering FPU at church, you know, if you'd want to go. And I actually resisted, even though I've been listening to you for a while because i thought that's a hundred dollars that we desperately need right now we went into the class let's go out to eat and spend a hundred and talk

about it that's right but um but we got into the class and we just we just devoted ourself we we submitted to the plan and the the blessings just's like God opened up the heavens and just said, I see what you're doing. You're trying. Here you go. Because within three weeks, she got her current job. Well, I was at least interviewed for the current job. It was within a couple months that I was actually full on in the job. What church?

It's St. James United Methodist Church. Great. Okay. Very cool. So she got her new job, and I actually got a new position in my company that raised my salary. And, of course, she was working again. So all that totaled. Right about the time you start Financial Peace University. Exactly.

That's why I say it just felt like a blessing. So that's what kicked this off 26 months ago was the class, really. Right. And then the job comes in and puts gas on the fire. Okay. Right. 100%. Yeah.

Very good. Cool. So what kind of debt was the $77,000 puts gas on the fire? Okay. Right. 100%. Yeah, very good. Cool. So what kind of debt was the $77,000? Well, we had cell phones. We had credit cards. We had a car loan. But most of this was Sally Mae. Hmm.

Yeah. Had to give the old woman her eviction notice. You better believe it. Kicked her butt out. There you go. I love it. How long have you been out of college? 2005 for me, 2003 for him.

Okay. So 15 years she's been hanging around. Time for her to go. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Good. So tell me about the little wins. And whenever someone's struggling with just being down in a hole like you were,

it's these little tiny steps and somebody believing in you. Tell me about that. The little wins are probably the easier way to do it, just to start. And we'd be like, all right, we paid that off. We never thought we'd pay that off. Okay, we got that paid off. And then we'd work up to it. It really felt like as we worked up to it, like the last one was he had larger student debts than I did

because I made him go to my private Methodist college that my family had all gone to. True love, right? Yeah, it is. It's not often you follow a girl to college and it actually works out. That's right. I sent him on ahead. We're high school sweethearts. I feel like every little win that you get you

got to celebrate you don't have to go extravagant or anything you just gotta you gotta find that little bit of of success and once you find that success you just keep building on it and building on it and it's not only the debt actually rolling off of you it's the confidence that you get from it well and that's what i was asking about and i didn't do a good job asking the question what do you say to a dad sitting there right now who, over the last two years, has been laid off, and he's starting to look around and think, I think everybody around here would be a little bit better if I just wasn't here? What would you tell that guy?

I wrote something down here that I realized, and some of it comes from listening to you guys. I realized that I'm not a failure,'m not a victim and i'm not a villain i was like all you have to do you have a chance to be a hero and all you have to do is just start and that's what i did i had to convict myself that i can do something with my life i have to find what that something is and i just have to start today doing it and like i said i had a lot of challenges after that it didn't happen the next day it happened you know months and months later but it was all that conviction of you know the they're not better off without me you know that's a phrase right there i'm not a failure i'm not a victim yeah and i'm not a villain and i just gotta start and and so i'm

gonna start i'm gonna start that's right. I love it. Ashley, what was it like walking alongside him? Say again. I just, well, when he started out, when it was just bad, I just kept reminding him, no, we can't do this without you. We've got two kids. We have little ones. I think we had the youngest one where he was still laid off.

So I was like, no, they need you. They need your dad. You're a good dad. And he is a good dad. He's a fantastic dad. That's awesome. And I just kept reminding him that we'd get there.

We'd get there. We'd get there. That there's, you know, I couldn't do this without him. Y'all two are amazing. Y'all are amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that.

Definitely. That's powerful. That's how it's done. That's exactly how it's done. The number of people in this country who are exactly where you two are is in the millions. And y'all are a gift. Thank you. Yeah, that's a powerful story.

Yeah. Man. Yeah. So I am not a failure, so that means I'm a success. I'm not a victim, so that means I'm a victor. And I'm not a villain, so that means I'm a heroor and i'm not a villain so that means i'm a hero yeah oh i can be all those things i just gotta start it's on the way man it's on the way as soon as you start you are that's that's the thing man that's how it works oh man love it powerful stuff

well done y'all we're proud of you thank you thank you good work good work and you brought the kiddos in what are their names and ages? This is Charlie. He is four. And this is William. He just turned eight the other day. All right. Very cool. Good-looking men. All right. We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you.

That's the next chapter in your story. You will be Baby Steps Millionaires on your hero journey here. You're amazing. Well done. We're so proud of you guys. And we got a copy of Total Money Makeover for you to give away and help somebody. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Love it! Woo! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. His new book is on presale, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, A Not-So-Complicated Approach to Relationships, Mental Health, and Wellness.

Be sure and get it at RamseySolutions.com. Chad is with us. Chad is in Indianapolis. Hi, Chad. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. This is Chad. How are you?

Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Hi, Dave. I have a question about my mortgage. My wife and I have enough money to pay it off. We are on baby steps four, five, and six, currently investing 15% of our income towards investments. I just have a question. We have about over $100,000 in savings and our payoff for our house is a little over $85,000. My goal is to pay it off here shortly, but I just wanted some advice. I just get nervous. You know, that $15,000 amount that would be left over is going to be about a three-month to six-month emergency fund because we would have no mortgage and we have no debt. I just wanted to get some advice as to what you think if we should pay it off or we should. And a little bit more background is we're expecting some bonuses coming in March

that are pretty significant and in April as well from our job. How much is significant? What's that mean? How much money? So $40, dollars between the two of us in march about seventeen thousand dollars in april wow wonderful and i just i mean i just get nervous i mean what the times and things like that because any job can be up for grabs and if something would happen with a downturn i mean i feel like my job's safe but who knows what the market and you know things are trending with supply chain and things like that. I just wanted to know. How long have you been at your job?

I've been at mine for two years. My wife has been at hers for five. Do you have any indication at all that there's any kind of problem at either one? Not with mine, no. But with hers, she's in her job. She's in sales for tools with stanley black and decker and there was a layoff last month and um we wanted just to be safe with her job my job's secure but i'm not sure with hers um just because there was a layoff of a thousand

employees last month if i woke up in your shoes i would write a check today and pay off my house. I would have done it yesterday. By close of business today. Okay. I can't think of anything that makes me feel safer than having no mortgage payment. Okay. Okay. You have gotten where you've done a very good job of getting where you are,

and you've gotten there by using some powerful analytic tools that you have in your brain. You've got a strong brain. And you've gotten there by being cautious and conservative. And the thing that got you here is the thing that's keeping you from doing it. You're overanalyzing this. Pay it off. Okay. And then in 30 days, you'll have...

$40,000 more. Yeah, this number will be $55,000. Yeah, you're just fine. You're just fine. You're going to get your bonus, and then she's going to keep her job. It's just, you're fine. Yeah. Turn the news off. Yeah. Hang out with your friends just you're fine. Yeah. Turn the news off.

Yeah. Hang out with your friends. For God's sakes, turn the news off. Yeah, start. Hey, that's the other thing. I was in the office a while ago. We were getting ready to start a meeting, and I've got the TV in there that they put, you know, Apple TV, where they put the computer up, you know, and all this stuff.

So the people coming in, the team that we're talking about, something they're going to put it up on the screen so they turn the tv on to um uh to get ready to put the computer presentation on it right and the news pops up my brain just started melting right there it just i i lost brain cells before we could get it turned off i was dumber i heard you yelling down the street i'm down the hallway turn on young and the restless young and the restless bachelor bachelor i didn't realize what you're yelling about yeah you know those two things didn't happen you are a liar john deloney you are a liar oh sandy is in college station texas hey sandy how are you hey dave thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I have a question for you. My husband and I are both 62. He's looking to retire sooner rather than later. We're on baby step seven. We have a net worth of about $2.4 million, of which $1.5 million is in retirement accounts.

We have a paid-for home that's worth about $650,000. We have a very small lake cabin, about $100,000. A paid-for rental home that's worth about $75,000. Just rich people problems, I'm telling you. I can't wait to hear your problem here. What's the problem? Well, okay, his salary right now is about $275,000 a year. But as I said, he's pretty much ready to retire. We have, when we paid for our home, we had our contractor build an unfinished two-bedroom apartment above my husband's toy area. His three-car garage workshop, okay? And we're ready to finish that out. And we are trying to decide if we can go ahead and just take the money out of this retirement account since we're over 62 or at 62 and just do it and pay the tax implication?

Yes. Or if we're missing something? No, just do it. Okay. It's a small percentage of your overall world. Okay. Okay. I'm just a little nervous because of, you know, we're going to take it.

It's not enough money to be nervous about. Okay. As a percentage of $2.4 million. What's the rental going to cost? Probably between $80,000 and $100,000. If you took $100,000 out and burned it in the fireplace, your life isn't going to change. Not substantially, no. Other than the fact you just wake up the whole night screaming that you're that stupid.

But no, I mean, my point is that you're actually creating an investment here you're just you're transferring the investment from one type of investment to another because you're increasing the value of the property by more than a hundred thousand dollars worth of investment can i ask you a hard question sandy sure john i've i've known some folks who make the kind of salary your husband makes and there's it's easy to tie safety and identity to that amount of money how much of your concern is about pulling the money out and how much of its concern is we're about to not be that couple that makes that kind of money every month well you have a valid point we yeah it was it was a long road for us to get to that point.

Of course it was. Both of us, my husband fortunately is also retired military. He has a very good pension for his 27 years in. But he's of the mind, oh, I don't want to touch any of this ever, and let's just let it grow for the kids. And I'm a little bit more reminded. Well, this is growing for the kids. That's true. Because what you're doing is you're liquidating mutual fund investments,

and you're putting it in real estate. And when the kids come, they can have their own bathroom, and that's going to make everybody love each other a little bit more, right? Amen. That's correct. See? Mic drop. This is an investment in your family that's right but

the the value of your property is going to go up equivalent to what you're spending on it because this this apartment will have will add to the appraiser $600,000 house and so you're just you're just changing the you know you're you're just changing the asset you're not you're not consuming it yeah you're not taking $100, dollars out and blowing it on something that you can't you're actually going to increase the value of your your net worth's not going to change right that's my point if you consumed it your net worth would go down by that much so you're you're in really really really good shape well done that's that's that's powerful but dave i do i do talk that's a good that's a really good insight i missed that i was speaking to somebody this weekend

who's thinking about making a major life change in their family and they have more money than they know what to do with but the salary at the new job is substantially less and it was just a mindset.

I used to be a guy that made this much and I'm going to be a guy that makes this much and it didn't affect their lifestyle, their net worth, but it's just,

it was an identity and I think he was struggling with, I didn't realize I'd attached it to that. Yeah, and it didn't affect the their lifestyle their net worth but it's just it was an identity and he i think he was struggling with i didn't realize that attached it to that yeah and you know what it'll sneak up on you oh yeah yeah even if you're someone who's you know like in my case i i teach people not to have your identity in your stuff don't have your identity in your in your career don't have your identity but you know i i um i struggle with it you know i i think if i if there was ever a day i stepped away from this microphone, which I'm not planning to, I think it would be very hard for me from an identity standpoint. That's right. So even though I like to think it's not who I think I am, but I think when I did it, it would probably be, oh, you know.

For sure. There you go. This is The Ramsey Show. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.