The Ramsey Show - App - Be Your Own Hero, Don’t Depend the Government

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome aboard. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically winning with your money, winning with your relationships, winning in your work. I'm Kent Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. We're here for you. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225.

Coming up this hour, of course, your calls. You don't want to miss the end of the hour. We're going to talk about some very interesting policy proposals that affect your pocketbook. So we won't get political, but we are going to get economical. We're going to talk about the very, very controversial price control plan that's being bandied about by the Harris campaign. So more on that. We'll talk about how that affects you, plus your calls. You ready to go? You excited? I've done my homework. You're going to be very excited about the last part of the hour when I talk price controls. So excited.

I do enjoy politics, but we're not going there. We're just going to talk about the facts. No, no, we're going to talk about the economics of it. Of what's going on, yeah. We're not going to be ugly. And you'll be great, too. Well, we'll see. But I just want to know if you'll be paying attention.

We'll see. Heather's going to start us off at Atlanta, Georgia. Heather, how can we help you today? Hi. I have a question related to mostly, I guess, where to start, because I know that I'm not ready for the baby steps yet. I have kind of overextended myself with the firm loans, and then I have a ton of, well, I wouldn't say a ton, but a good bit of

credit card debt. And so what I'm finding now is that I'm like not even paycheck to paycheck. I'm doing a little bit of gig work on the side outside of my regular job, but it's really just to try to cover the bills where I would be in the negative. Okay. So, yeah. So you're below water, if you will. So getting you above that in a stable place in order then to start the baby steps is kind of what you're saying, which, yeah, it makes total sense. Okay. So what kind of caused you to get in this situation, Heather? What kind of what caused you to get behind and get underwater financially?

Well, I recently got a divorce and so the home and everything I'm in, initially when I entered that home, it was a double income going into the home. And so now initially I was able to kind of keep up with things, but then I kind of started working closer to home and my pay is not exactly as much but even with that I'm just really seeing the effects fully now of the aftermath of the divorce and having to pay everything certain things that we got together now I'm paying it all by myself okay so when you guys got divorced what was the and you said the house how did that how did you guys divvy that up what was the what's what's the outcome of that house, his name was not put on the deed,

even though I initially purchased the house and I was going to add his name to the deed. But we had an agreement for him to like pay the amount for adding his name, but he never did. So his name was never on the deed. So he just kind of walked away not really owing anything. We didn't have, the only things we had together is furniture, this water system that we got together,

and also there's a car that's in my name that he's currently paying for. That he's currently paying for because he's using? Yes. Okay, so the car's in your name, though. For the house, how much is the mortgage a month? It has gone up, and that's another thing. It's gone up to like $1,550. Okay, and how much do you have left to pay on it and how much is it worth?

I have about $202,000, maybe $202,000 left. Our property value has fluctuated a little bit, but the last time I checked, it was worth about $350,000. Okay. Are you on an ARM, an adjustable rate mortgage? Um, I don't think so. And I, I do have also a PMI in there that I've been trying to get rid of because it's been about four years since we've been in the house. Yeah. I mean, you're, you're well over 20% or no, you owe that much. Yeah. You'll have to get to that 20% value before PMI goes away Which is just the insurance for the mortgage company How much is your income a month, Heather?

How much are you bringing in? So I'm bringing in about $42.50 a month Okay Yeah, I mean I hate to say it But the house is causing you It is a lot of pain You're not in a terrible spot

With the mortgage specifically It is a little bit over that 25% of what we like to see. But are other bills, the upkeep of it, is that drowning you down too? The upkeep of the house? Yes, yes. To some extent, we've had, it's me and my son too now, we've had some issues with the air conditioning unit that I've had to get repaired in the past. And usually, like if I get a little extra income tax, I'll use that on repairs and things like that. Okay. Yeah, I just want to make sure, because you are a little bit over on where we like to see your mortgage payment. And the problem is, just like you said, it was based on a two income household. And when you went down to one, you're feeling those effects. So Heather, I may, if I were in your position, probably entertain the idea of what would it look like to sell? What would it look like to rent for a season until you can, again, and you'll take some of that equity. And I would just put it, if you go further with this idea, put it in a high yield savings and

hold on to it for a down payment on your next home. But you may need to downsize, which I know is like a really big decision when I talk about moving. But again, to get your head above water, I don't know, I want you to be able to have a lot of margin and not feel suffocated by this mortgage. And then the other thing, Heather, and I would stop digging into the hole of debt. So wherever you are, I mean, I would cut up the credit cards, not even make it a temptation.

I would stop using the buy now, pay later, affirms and Klarna and all of that. That is eating people's salary. It is turning into a billion dollar business because companies are making so much off of this because it is a form of debt. It feels harmless, but you end up piling that on and just like what you're experiencing, it is payments and that's what's happening. So I would get to the point where your bills are covered, food, shelter, utilities and you guys are in and feel like you're in a good spot there and then anything extra you can do to bring in money bringing some of that in and catching up on bills are you late on any of the credit cards

i am right now um with one i'm almost two months behind and with another one just a month because okay all this kind of started recently because i started using the Affirm to try to cover like toiletries and stuff when I was coming up short versus using the credit cards. And so it just kind of got out of control. For sure. Yeah. And it's a slippery slope. I mean, that is the story of people's lives. I mean, that's exactly what happened. So yeah, I mean, if Heather, yeah, I would get in the habit of stop using any of those and stop digging yourself deeper in, which may mean you're going to be on a really tight budget. And if you hold on the line, Christian's going to pick up and I want to give you Financial

Peace University and Every Dollar Premium because to get the basics and really get yourself in a position where you're not behind, you're caught up. And again, you're taking care of those four walls, the food, shelter, utilities and. And again, you're taking care of those four walls, the food, shelter, utilities, and transportation. Don't get behind on any of those for the credit cards. I'd rather you be behind on credit cards than be behind on the mortgage payment. So staying current on your bills that you need to survive

and then finding some of that extra margin to catch up on those credit cards and then start the process of saving. So it's a lot, Heather, I know, and you're doing a great job as a single mom. So again, Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you some of those resources and tools because it's going to just be this new process,

starting this whole new way of looking. And even Ken, maybe some of your stuff too for possibly upping income and career. Yeah, need some income. I actually want to give her a free session. Christian, let's get her a session with one of our financial coaches as well, because she needs to get out of this mess and needs more help. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas,

and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets, our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself, we all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting

therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. The phone number for you to jump in. It is your show. We're here to help you. It's 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. All right. Planners, pay attention.

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So there you go. All right, 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. Let's go to Jack, who joins us in Fort Myers, Florida. Jack, how can we help today? Hey, how are you guys? Good. Good afternoon. Would you like to just meet to jump into it?

Jump right in. Tell us how we can help. This is your moment. Yeah, so I'll keep the details straight and to the point. So I'm 35 years old. And overall, within the last four years, I have built up, uh, about $40,000 in credit and loans debt. Um, throughout the last couple of years, it looks like the interest rates jumped up to about 28% across the board for me. And, um, my car insurance jumped up to about a thousand just because of previous history. And so my bills that I don't really have too much control over, I just need to knock out of the park and get out of here. I'm struggling

with payment strategy, and that is my goal, is to figure out a payment strategy to overcome the obstacles that I have. Okay, tell me about your income situation. What do you do for a living and what do you make? So I have been in the medical field for maybe the last six or seven years, and I recently opened up my own medical billing company where I do personal contracts with mom-pop shop, chiropractic clinics, and MRI facilities and medical centers. So what are you paying yourself?

Right now, it's very unstable. I'm only collecting about $1,500 to $2,000 a month off of that. And I have another income of $3,000 coming to me, but it's more of a personal friend providing it to me, but it's not going to be sustainable forever. Okay, hold on. All right, hold on. I just want to make sure I understand this. You're collecting about $1,500 a month from your business or you're paying yourself $1,500 a month?

No, that's how much the business is paying me right now. How much are you, what we're trying to, what we got to figure out to help you out here is what your actual income is. What are you paying yourself? What falls into my bank account is $4,000 guaranteed. And that includes the $3,000 from a friend who's just paying you because he's a great person. Yes. And how long do you think that's going to last? It can't last. In fact, every day that it goes on, it actually hurts my soul.

It's not something that I'm comfortable with. I know it's going to come to an end. It has to come to an end. Okay. What about income? What about better opportunities for income? What's holding you back from doing something to make more money? Ultimately, it was just finding the right opportunity, but I kind of threw a bone in my path. And I would say about a year ago, through the heightened emotion of feeling this collapse and feeling all this pressure, I had a scenario where I became a felon.

My felony is based upon battery on an officer. So that is my scenario. I was lucky enough to not do any mandatory jail time. They were lenient with that, but they are not able to remove or get rid of the felony at all. So I'm just kind of manning up about it. Yeah, well, that's good information. I that's manning up about it yeah that's well that's good information man up about it yeah um well this is a hurdle that i have it's massive hurdle

um it's a new hurdle it was not a hurdle that i had to stress about in my 20s and teens it is a 35 year old hurdle um with the current job jack that you're doing the billing the medical billing how long had you been doing that for i've been doing it for about six to seven years. And what's the best income you've made off of that? Like in a really good year, what would you make? About $45,000 to $50,000 for a contract. So what's changed? The clinics that I work with have to do well themselves. You need to find some more clinics, right? Yes, yes. And I have a time-sensitive scenario. So ultimately, I have to pay off my probation in three years.

How much is that? You know, it has to happen. That probation is $10,000. And then you have $40,000 in debt? Yes. And my car, my expense, my car is, let's say, $300,000, let's say $350,000. And then my car insurance is at $800,000. So, like, I've been eating ramen for the last five years. So, Jack, we only have a couple minutes with you, and I want Rachel to be able to help as well. So we've got to get to the point fast, okay? So this is not a silly – it's going to sound silly, but I simply don't know.

But I'm guessing you know. What kind of work can you do where you can make somewhere in the $15 to $20 to $25 an hour? It may be labor. Can you do that with the felony? Or is it pretty much every time these jobs are doing background checks on you, what's available to you because you've got to make more money and quickly. Correct. So answer that question for me.

For my own research. Yeah. For my own personal research, I found locksmithing to be the best opportunity. Great. What's a locksmithing to be the best opportunity. Great. What's a locksmith? It looks like they can average about $50,000 a year. Okay, my man. Stable income. Great. And then I'll guarantee you there's some labor jobs where you could show up on a construction site

and do stuff. Because I used to work, I'm just telling you, this issue right now, I'm going to give it to Rachel real quick to walk you through the basic how we get out of debt. But I just want you to understand, there's some urgency right now for you to increase your income. And you've got to treat it like it's life or death because it is. Yeah, and I would. It is, and that's why I came across you guys. Yeah, for sure. And Jack and I would be encouraged with your own company that you're doing that there's chiropractic.

I mean, there's like the chiropractic world, I think, is a whole a whole other you know it's a whole world that's knocking on every door yeah it's like i see that as a complete open door that you could just run in do the locksmith too on the side do both of those in tandem do them both really well and i mean you could be bringing in 70 to 80 a year by just doing that so so what i would do is yeah so your probation the 10 000 that would be my number one goal and so it's gonna have have to be everything, Jack, from a strict budget. And the income is the problem in this scenario. I don't think your expenses, you're not out of control on your expenses from what I'm hearing. So once you get that income up and you start making extra money, you have to be diligent of putting that money aside. And you need a goal mapping out to

say, okay, I need an extra thousand a month. And in 10 months, you could have that 10 grand. I would set that completely aside that you have that for the probation and then start paying off these, this $40,000 in debts, keep minimum payments going. So you don't get behind on those. But then I would attack that, but I would prioritize the probation first and foremost before anything else. All right. We got to take a quick break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. And the phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

Austin, Texas is where we're going to go next, and Alex is joining us there. Alex, how can we help? Hi, guys. How are you today? We're having a blast. What's going on? Good. Good. Thanks for having me. I've got a quick question for you. I'm 30 years old, and I've been working with my folks for about 10, 12 years now. We build custom homes about an hour north of Austin.

And me and my wife have been, we've got a little side program we've been doing on the side, and that's starting to make quite a bit more money than I'm making at my day job and I'm just working around the clock and nights and weekends on our side hustle and I'm wondering if it's, you know, I'm not getting to spend a lot of time with my son and just rat race You enjoying the side hustle, Alex? Do you like it? I'm not getting to spend a lot of time with my son and just a rat race. You enjoying the side hustle, Alex?

Do you like it? Yes. More than home building with your family? Well, it's the same thing. We're buying and selling homes and remodeling homes. Oh, okay. Wow. A little bit of the flip business.

Okay, okay. Yeah, it sounds like you're in a great place. Let's just look at the numbers because my answer is always based on the numbers. Right. Because that's where we start. And then Rachel really got, I think, to the next point that I'm always looking for is, is this the joy? Is this kind of giving you the autonomy, the freedom that you long for? And it sounds like it is.

Right. So on the money side, how much more are you making per month in the side hustle than you are your day job? And then for how long has that been happening? Well, we built our first house three or four years ago, and we sold it in December. We had $500 into it, and we sold it for $1.8. Whoa. Well done, sir. Yeah, thank thank you that's just one house jump started everything two years alex did you say you bought it two two years ago we we we built we

bought the property and built the house oh okay okay i hear it from the ground up it wasn't a flip okay yeah okay uh that was the first deal uh we sold it in December. And then since then, we've bought another house for $375,000, and we're getting ready to put it on the market. And we should be able to profit somewhere around $100,000. Okay. So here's the deal. Since yours is a little bit different situation there as to when that money's coming in, my rule of thumb is this. I want to see people have at least six to 12 months of their current income. So working for your family, you have an income. And when people are saying, Ken or Rachel, when do we move over?

My rule of thumb is I want to see you have six to 12 months of your day job income in the bank of the side hustle, right? And that to me is a minimum, six to 12 months. Personally, I would do 12 months, but some people, if you've got a really good pipeline built up and it feels like you do and you know what you're doing here, I think six months is fine. But that is in addition to the fact that you're also making right at about the same amount or more, in other words, what you're paying yourself. And so it feels that you're also making right at about the same amount or more, in other words, what you're paying yourself. And so it feels like you're pretty much there.

I mean, the way you started the call, you said you're already making more working for yourself than working for your family. I'm making about $100,000 a year while I work with my folks. All right. Now, what are you paying yourself out of this side hustle? Well, we took that lump sum that we walked away with a million dollars and we invested. We put all of it in Merrill Lynch and they're taking care of it for us. So that's what I'm asking you. What are you paying yourself after you save and invest? What are you paying yourself? Can you pay yourself 100 grand? Yes.

It's a no-brainer. Then how much you got saved? Well, we've saved all of it. We basically have no debt, and we've got all in the bank, and we just take what we need out of it to do these projects. That's what I was going to say, Alex. I mean, that's the beautiful thing that you guys have that most people don't, in a sense, is when you're getting into this kind of world with real estate, we say to go at the speed of cash, which a lot of people hate because like, are you kidding

me? I don't have a hundred grand laying around to buy something and flip it. So the fact that you guys have the cash in order to do this is fantastic. And I think that, yeah, I mean, I would, and you can run some models, Alex. I mean, you know this world better than I do. My husband's been in it for about a year now. And it's fascinating when you look at, oh my gosh, you could buy, you know, in those two to 300 ranges, you know what I mean? Of how many you need a year to flip on average, what you think you can sell them for. And then to Ken's point, yeah, we need, knowing what you need to live off of and what you guys want, making that kind of back into that and say okay then how much extra would we make off these flips and then we can roll that

back into new properties and it is it's kind of like a big snowball which is fantastic um so i'd earmark a hundred thousand dollars in in your side hustle your company let's call it your company i'd have a hundred thousand dollars set aside just to pay you. And so whenever you're ready to walk from your parents and you're pretty much ready because you've got your income. Do your parents know any of this going on, Alex? Is this going to be a shock to them or is it, have you been kind of talking to them throughout the process too? No, they don't know. And you know, it's always tough when you're in a family business. Yes, I do know. Yeah, boy, does she. So has there been a conversation?

Are you the only child? Are there multiple? What's the conversation? I'd love Rachel to weigh in on this. So what has the conversation been about who takes over for mom and pop? Well, I have one other brother, and I'm pretty certain that my dad's in his mind that I'm going to take over. Oh, boy. Does your brother want it?

I don't think so. Yeah, and it may just be a thing that your dad's probably going to have to realize, oh, gosh, I'm going to probably have to sell it, sell the company at some point for retirement, and another home builder can buy the, you know, buy what you have. I mean, buy some of the assets. Decision, kind of a hard decision to make. For sure. Yeah. And I would just, and I would walk into that, you know, really with a lot of gratitude, Alex, you know what I mean, of what they've given you over, you know, not given you, you've worked, you've been working, but the opportunity and everything. I've learned a lot. everything a lot yeah for yeah the last 10 years and um and i and you know and i and i pray

that you know the way you present it and the way your dad specifically takes it like there is a level of dignity when your son goes out and it is sad my husband he left ramsey literally to do what you're doing alex and flip him and dad both cried and all of it. It's great. I mean, it's totally, it is fine. It did not sever a relationship by any means. But there was sadness of like, man, you know, you're working together for so long and something's different, it's changing. But yet I pray that he, you know,

applauds you and even helps you, you know, along the way that his son, but it's gonna be a shock. So I would talk to him ASAP, Alex, and with not a final decision necessarily, but I's going to be a shock. So I would talk to him ASAP, Alex, and with not a final decision necessarily, but I would start having some of these conversations. So it's not just this big bombshell. I would kind of bring them in and just say, hey, here's what we've been doing. Here's what I'm enjoying and I'm loving and bringing them into some of it early is what I

would do. I agree with Rachel because there's this weird thing here, and I'm not in any way criticizing you. I'm trying to put myself in your dad's shoes. There's this weird thing here, and I'm not in any way criticizing you. I'm trying to put myself in your dad's shoes. There's this weird thing going on where you've been doing this for a while, and he didn't even know about it. And that feels weird. And in the same industry. Same industry. And again, not in any way, Alex, criticizing you.

I'm just trying to go, man, that feels weird. I'd probably rip the Band-Aid off. He knows what I've been doing. And maybe in his mind he has an idea. I thought you said they didn't know. No, he knows what I've been doing on the side. He just doesn't have any idea that I might be interested in moving on. Okay, I misunderstood. Strike everything I just said from the record. So that was unnecessary. Sorry about that.

I misunderstood completely. But I would say with Rachel, sooner rather than later, that, hey, this transition, especially now that he knows you've been doing it, I would say, hey, we're doing well, and I'm ready to go work for myself and make really great money. And I would hope he'd have some pride in that to say, you know what, love for you to take the company, but I also know that you want to make a lot of money. Yeah, and Alex, and I would be really sensitive about the transition too,

that if you're on a project with them or something and they need you for another five, six months, I would complete the job there really well and tie all the loose ends. Don't leave them in a bad spot because there's no urgency necessarily for you to run to this other thing, except the fact that you're making more money and you're excited about it. So again,

I think that's the goal. But walking into that, leaving a company that your family owns, yeah, I think I would have a lot of leeway on when you do that for their sake too, just to kind of help the conversation. Thanks for the call, Alex. Coming up, we'll break down price controls. What would it mean to you and your pocketbook? This is the Ramsey Show. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there

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for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch give them a call at 800-356-4282 welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman rachel cruz joins me at the phone number for you to jump in it's 888-825-5225 we're here to answer your questions we want to coach you to win with your money to win in your work to win with your money, to win in your work, to win in your relationships. All three of those areas are all connected. And when you're suffering in one, it affects the others. So we're going to take on some economic issues. We've been talking about some economic issues because they affect your actual pocketbook. And this is a show that is about your money and how it affects your life. And so we preach a lot of personal responsibility. We preach control what you can control.

However, we want to not just inform you on how to get out of debt, how to do a budget. We want you to understand how economics work and economic policies, because you have a say in it. We want you to understand how economics work and economic policies because you have a say in it. And so don't get squeamish. Don't get nervous. We're not going left. We're not going right today. We're going to talk about, as I talked about a couple weeks ago, Rachel, you missed it. I talked about the one issue that I think American people ought to be uniting on in this election is the national debt. In other words, we need a constitutional amendment that would require a balanced budget like many states, the state of Tennessee, the state of Virginia, where I'm from. Many states have a constitutional requirement for a balanced budget. So big in the

news. In fact, Dave was on Fox News talking about, Laura Ingraham had him on the Ingraham Angle to talk about Vice President Kamala Harris's economic plan, and specifically it's been floated that she would be in favor of price controls to control inflation. So I want to break this down very, very briefly. I went and did some research. This is not my opinion here. I'm going to walk briefly through about 11 things that would happen. This is from a well-known economist that understands food and food pricing. But let me first explain, Rachel, and to our audience, price control, the idea is it sounds really great on the surface, right? Wait a second. You mean the government can pass legislation that would say we have to

keep prices at this much? And it sounds really great really great because oh the price of a combo meal or the price we don't want it to go up because it sounds great but what actually happens so i'm going to roll through this really fast this is economist ken yeah so this is this is this is 101 economics 101 here's how this would go so the government would announce that grocery retailers cannot raise prices. In other words, this is price control fixed prices. Grocery stores, which operate on about a 1% to 2% margin, they're not going to be able to survive if their suppliers raise prices. So then the government says, oh, well, you know what? Cattle farmers, you can't raise prices on beef, right?

Now stores in lower income areas, understand this, grocery stores, we're talking about food here, grocery stores in lower income areas, they make less money than higher income grocers because they sell a lot more of the prepackaged or processed food. Think center of the store versus outside of the store where you're talking about fresh meat and fresh fruit and things of that nature. That's higher priced items. So they now can't cover their overhead. Because while their prices have to stay the same, they still have to pay people to actually work. And those prices aren't fixed.

So all of a sudden, watch this, you start to have food deserts in lower income areas. Which is current. That is happening to a degree here. To a degree, but we're talking massive. Yeah, this is on a bigger scale. So think urban and think rural, low income areas all of a sudden can't get food. Next, margins for food producers,

as I mentioned earlier, are eroding. So now they're having to deal with overhead. So now they're dealing with real issues of we got to reinvest with production capacity. Food producers are making lower margins so they stop making the products. And then the grocery chains start competing with each other. Because now it's like there's only so much inventory, so they start competing. So what do they do?

They start negotiating, well, we'll get you payment faster. And so then who gets cut out? That leads to the smaller food producers and the smaller grocers. They get cut out. They're out. Out. Go out go out of business these are real jobs real lives now watch the supply chain breaks down because the the food it's not it's not available supply chain breaks down and so now all of a sudden cities are assigning police officers outside of grocery stores to manage the crowds the mobs that are standing in line waiting to get food. This is all real. This happened in the Great Depression. This is not a fantasy. It happens in Venezuela, to give an example, when socialism and it turns into communism type rules. So here's what happens. Now it gets really bad. So the federal government goes, we got to fix it.

So they announced a program to come in and say the federal government's in charge of all food distribution you want the government in charge of your food distribution so now everything's fixed and now there's just people trying to make it and it's profiteering actually can drive prices up the very thing it was designed to not do because now it's like piracy it's like who's got the most cash all that yeah hey i got cash. My kids need food. Boom. It starts to get very civil war-y, very kind of weird. I know this is a bleak picture, but it's important to understand this. And so you don't want your government managing your food supply chain.

It's one of the most complex supply chains we have, if you think about it. From farm to table, you think about how complex it is you want the government running that that's essentially what kamala harris is proposing she's not the only person to propose it in the history of the world in economics but i just want to point out and that's what that's the domino effect that's the domino so the first domino falls and it may be a year two years four, it's way quicker than that. You know what I mean? But I'm saying 1 to 11 is not going to happen overnight.

Not overnight. And I think that's always the warning with policies. And that's why for anyone going to vote, which I love election season. I love all of this. And I'm a proponent. Go vote. Vote, vote, vote. But know what you're voting for right do the research and

understand the policies from yeah from the beginning to the end great point and um go do your own research on what i just threw out yeah for sure go read about countries that have had price controlling and what that looks like this is not fear-mongering and what's interesting is the food specifically i feel like people are already more and more information even in the last you know, five, six years is coming out about just food in general, right? I mean, the health

and what's actually in our food, the processed stuff that, you know, so much of that is even a conversation. So naturally people, we're all kind of, or I don't want to say all of us, we are a little bit suspecting like, okay, what really is in this?

And then it goes all the way down there. We were like, no, no, no, no. I like, take me take me off the grid ken that's where my prepping comes in where i'm like you won't see me again i mean my corn and my cows and you would have to in my butter you would have to in this scenario because the reality is you couldn't sustain if the food is not there then it is an all-out scramble. And it is rich against poor, family against family. It can get that crazy. And by the way, I know for an American listening to this, and they maybe knew the show, and they're like, what is Ken got in dark? No, no, no, listen to me. This is happening in countries all around the world as a result of this type of socialistic policy.

It's a policy. I'm not calling anybody names. This is the policy that has been floated. It's the perspective, the viewpoint that you look through in this, right? So do your homework is all we're saying. If you go do your homework on this and you go, Ken, I don't think that's the scenario, that's fine. But I do think it's important to understand that sometimes, well, not sometimes, many times what government means for good ends up screwing up the system. And capitalism isn't this stacked system that only helps the rich. It actually is an exchange of goods and services. It's actually a great economic system, right? And I hope that I explained that well. By the way, that's an hour-long presentation that I did in two minutes,

but that's how that happens. You've got to have the exchange of goods and services. Yes. There are moments in an economy where inflation goes up due to the supply and demand. And right now, and I'll give credit where credit is due. I've given Jerome Powell a hard time. I thought that the Fed got us in this mess that we're in. However, the raising of interest rates and holding that, we've seen the inflation come down. And so that's good. But there are just seasons where a pandemic and then this and this and this.

And so if you want to control inflation, control your income. Control how you spend. Yeah. Yeah. Control what you can control. That's right. That's right. Absolutely. There are ways to save money even when groceries are expensive. Right. Right. Totally. And I think Dave said it on Laura's show, but it's almost like let everyone just live. You know what I mean? If the government would just take their hands off of that's right everything just solve itself but even i was looking at the tax differences even in trump because a lot of the trump um tax policies are expiring next year that's right um so even looking into that you guys and knowing hey what's what's up the death tax to the um you know the child tax credit i think could go up under Harris'. So anyways, do your research, everyone. How's it going to affect your pocketbook?

Pay attention. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We want you to win with your money. We want you to win in your work. We want you to win with your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. The fabulous Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. We're here together to

take your questions and let's get right to it. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania is where we're going to go next. Aaliyah, if I'm saying that right, is there for us. Did I say your name right? Yes, you did. How are you doing? Doing well. How are you? I'm good. Thank you.

How can we help today? So I'm calling because I'm 30 years old. I live in Philadelphia, and I've been unemployed since last August. Oh, no. What happened? I know. The job market right now really sucks. Um, yeah, it's just exhausting to even speak about it. So right now, currently

I am in debt of $77,957. And this includes student loans, personal loans, credit cards, and car loans. And I really don't know what direction to go into because I don't have any money to pay back the debt because I am unemployed. So I wanted to see, do you guys think I should file for bankruptcy or should I strategize like a payment plan once I get employed again to start paying off my debt?

Yeah, I mean, I would say the latter. I mean, $77,000 is not being, I mean, I think you can get out of this. It's going to take for sure some time and life is going to probably look different for a bit while you climb out of this, but I would not. If you had $700,000 or something we were talking,

then that probably would be a different story. But $77,000, you can do this. Like you can, we see it every day. This is a number that is manageable. I know it feels probably so overwhelming to you. And especially since you haven't been earning an income, it feels like I'm completely underwater. But just hear us on this side say,

we talk to people every day that have more, that have six figures and they're doing it, okay? So I do wanna give you hope, Aaliyah, that you can do this. I think my biggest concern is the income side. And so what's been, yeah, has there not been anything that you've found since you said last August? So it's been almost a year. I mean, even, you know, like Target, Walmart, I mean, any retail, anything possible? So I'm in the legal support field. So my roles have been like a paralegal or legal assistant.

Okay. So I was more so trying to get back into that field because it will bring in like a great income where I can get back on my feet. Yeah. What were you making? So as of my previous position, I was making $55. Okay. And how many paralegal gigs have you tried to get in the last year ballpark?

Oh, goodness. I've been on several interviews, and I've been ghosted by a lot of recruiters. I want to say maybe since January to now, I've been on maybe like seven or eight interviews. That's defeating. I'm so sorry. What were you making? It's okay. What were you making?

55. Okay, so here's a question for you. In the last three seconds while you were talking i went on my computer and i typed in virtual paralegal and i saw all kinds of sites have you looked into doing virtual paralegal work um not necessarily i don't really i don't know if i don't really trust those like type of ads so i haven't really looked alia this isn't an ad this isn't an ad i pulled up this is this is an actual company that supplies virtual paralegals for people who need them it came to me immediately that um when you've got a virtual opportunity like that the barrier for

entry might be a little bit less i don't know i don't know what's going on in your interviews i will tell you that uh i i hear stories every day of people that have been ghosted, and I'm sorry about that. But Leah, I'm telling you, there are no more, well, I'm holding out for that paralegal job. I'm giving you some tough love here, hopefully in a non-tough way. You need to be working at Walmart or Target or or driving or doing something uh you your target is $20 an hour $25 an hour if you got to do some manufacturing you are doing whatever it takes is that below uh the the professional level you've been on the pass yes is it beneath you no that is dignified work you know men and women all over Philadelphia that do that work.

It is not beneath you. But right now, to Rachel's point, you can actually dig out of this. But I believe you can make the equivalent of $55,000 an hour with a good job, like I just described, even if it's an hourly rate. And then a second job. You're going to have to work your way out of this, and I believe you actually can. And Rachel can walk you through what you would do on the snowball side of things if you're not familiar with it, but I'm telling you right now,

there is no reason someone as sharp as you are is not working for one year other than the fact that you've been defeated and you've been rejected and that's really really hard and it's and it stinks and let me also say this the research from psychology studies show that losing a job being laid off or fired is the same emotional impact of losing a loved one so i want to acknowledge to you that it's okay for you to be down because that's normal. But you're 12 months into this and you're calling us saying, should I bankrupt myself? And the answer is no. So I want to bring in Rachel here, but I want to tell you, Leah, you've got to get serious about doing any job right now and then look at maybe that virtual paralegal and

some things like that to get to get maybe a little bit more momentum okay yeah so yeah and i think i think the i think the the hard reality that you're going to face like anybody in a situation like this is that in order to get a different result, you have to change 180 everything that you've been doing. So the leaning on debt, leaning on credit cards, leaning on just this idea that, you know, I hope I get a job and I'm going to try. But if I don't, I'm just going to keep trying while not doing something else. Like it's going to be a 180 to the point, Aliyah, that, you know, I want you to call us a year from now and be like, people are accusing me that I'm a workaholic, right? I have three jobs and I'm working 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. I'm exhausted and all of it

because to get out of this debt, Elliot, it's gonna be tough. Like it's gonna be long hours, a lot of different things. You may piecemeal a retail job here, Uber Eats there. Maybe you tutor someone that's that's trying to be a paralegal too on the side for four for four hours a week here i mean like anything you can do to piecemeal while you hopefully land a 55 000 job somewhere and then

while you're doing that you're still probably going to work part-time somewhere else again just to climb out of this debt so the way we the way we help people get out of debt is like, it is vengeance. Like you are, you are, everything is going towards this, every amount of energy, time. And if you do that for a short amount of time, if you put that much work and that much focus and that much intensity, this 77,000 is going to be cleaned up. I mean, it will, it'll be cleaned up in 24 months. If you just say, you know what, I'm doing this, I'm living on nothing. I'm working hard and I, and I'm going to be focused. So what I want you to do, Aaliyah, is I want you to write out all of your debts separately. So if you have five credit cards, write them up in five separate debts, personal loans,

write those out, your car loan. And I want you to list them out smallest amount to largest amount, regardless of the interest rate. I want you to pay minimum payments on everything. Okay. With this job that you're going to be getting you, I want you to stay current on all of your bills, uh, from the debt and your, your food, shelter, utilities, transportation, making sure all of that's covered. And I want you to pay off that smallest debt first. So if it's a $2,000 credit card, that's your number one goal. We're going after that. Um, get a thousand dollar emergency funds before you do all this But hold on the line

Christian's going to pick up And I'm going to give you Financial Peace University This is our seven lesson course That really is going to be Nine lesson course That's going to be able to walk you through How to really start this process

And to get you on the right page Because I believe you can do this I really do I think your life's going to look different But I think that's such a good thing It's going to bring dignity back to you, Aaliyah You because I believe you can do this. I really do. I think your life's going to look different, but I think that's such a good thing. It's going to bring dignity back to you, Aaliyah. You're doing great, girl. Got to run. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace

us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need

to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.

Rachel Cruz joins me. The phone number for you to join us is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Today's question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. Now, we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for distressed private student loans, there's YRefi. We trust YRefi because they help you with low fixed interest rates that you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt. Learn more at Y Refi dot com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y R E F Y dot com slash Ramsey.

It may not be available in all states. All right. Today's question. This is probably me for you, Ken. Get ready. Rebecca in Delaware. I changed my career path two months ago due to a job layoff. My income went down by

$30,000 a year with a new salary of $100,000. I can work remotely most of the time with a flexible schedule and unlimited PTO. A recruiter at a different company contacted me just this week about an opening that would give me a promotion and an annual pay of $115,000 plus bonuses and a $10,000 signing fee. This role requires me to be in the office Tuesday through Thursday and does not have unlimited PTO. I also don't feel experienced enough to go confidently into this role. However, we're trying to pay off debt and this additional income would allow us to pay off our debt six months faster. If I switch, will I look like a job hopper and does it seem like it's worth all the trade-offs the flexible unlimited PTO with two small children is hard to give up yeah okay so

this is pretty straightforward for me to answer the first question does it make you look like a job hopper no if you were to do this one or two more times in about that frame of time yes you would look like a job hopper but in this situation situation, I would treat this as kind of like a free agent in sports. Another team wants you, they come, they offer you a better package, and you say, you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to go to this team over here. But just as a free agent in sports has to decide, is it just about the money or is it also about the chance to win? So if I'm in a free agent, if let's say I'm an NFL team and I've got a team that's one of the worst teams in the league that's offered me not too much more money, because this is a not too much more money. When you break that down,

I know the $10,000 bonus sounds great, but for the trade-off, I'm going to ask myself, do I want to win or do I want to make more money? And for me, I would like to win and knowing that more money is going to take care of itself. So in this situation, this question here, I'm going to say, I wouldn't take this new job for a couple of reasons. One, you don't feel like you're experienced enough for it. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't take it, but there's a little bit of a curve there where you're going, I'm not sure I'm ready for that. And so that's somewhat of a negative. The second thing is, is the PTO, the children, the flexibility that she's giving up. I think I'd say no to this without having a chance to go back and forth with her. But I'd say no.

I was going to say no too. And then I think that fires you up to pay it off earlier by coming up with a way to make $10,000. That's right. That's right. I'd stay where you are based on what I'm hearing. Yeah, because the debt payoff, that's a short-term goal, right? Your career is long-term. That's right.

And you're setting yourself up in a job, hopefully, that you'll continue to make more money as you continue to stay in it, like you were saying. And long-term, this is a better gig for you from just a time standpoint right the the ability to the flexibility and all of that um and as a mom with two small kids i totally get that versus a short-term thinking mindset of oh yeah i could make i agree you know some extra all to save six months on the debt payoff yep i don't think it's a good trade it's not yeah not a good trade for the long term. Thanks for the question, though. Really good stuff. Thank you. 888-825-5225 is the number.

We're going to go north of the border. Calgary, Alberta is where Jimmy is joining us. Jimmy, how can we help? Hey, guys. How are you doing this morning? Good. How are you? Good afternoon.

Sorry. Very good. Thank you very much. I'm 23 years old. I started trucking over the road last year and it's given me a big shovel to pay off all my debt. I'm currently debt free, saving up for three to six months worth of expenses. And I guess next up for me would either be buying a house or buying a semi-truck to basically just drive for myself. Just wondering what your take would be on that. Okay, quick question on that. Help me understand,

if you were, let's say you had the cash today, because we don't want you to use debt, you know that. So let's say we bought the semi-truck today. How much more money would that allow you to make driving for yourself? Basically double, which would be $75,000 extra a year. How much would a semi cost you? Right now in Canada, it's between $30,000 and $70,000 depending on what kind of luxury I want, but I am planning on buying it with cash. And what's the range there that you represented? Is that in quality or just age? Basically both. So either like a Canaveras T660, which just an older, kind of like an old truck with a bit of a worse engine.

So you'll make $75,000 more. How much are you making currently? Like what would your total be if you owned your own truck per year? My total would be about $130,000. That's great. So I'm making about, yeah. You said something that interested me. You said if I buy it in Canada, and I'm wondering, can you come to the states and get one and would it be significantly cheaper

absolutely i go to the states all the time um so could you get a cheaper semi here uh i don't think so i think they're a lot cheaper in canada right now oh good okay it sounded cheap to me when you said 30 grand for a semi yeah i, I just didn't know. I was just curious. So I'm helping you think through all these things, but yeah, I think I would do that if I were you. You're single? I am single. Yep. How long is it going to take you to get to baby step three, which is your three to six months? When are you going to be completed with that? Within the next month. Nice. So then how long would it take you to save up the semi money? Just about one year. At your age? I would

do that. I'd absolutely save for that. If you change your mind, Rachel, here's what I'm thinking here. If for some reason in that year of saving, he goes, I think I want to go into whatever xyz um he still got that cash for a down payment on a home but I like him being self-employed and doubling his income so great yeah because to plant where you are you know long term you know you're 23 single like you never know what a year or two can bring you know to to will bring you because usually with a house we say five years is kind of the sweet spot to outride the market and to kind of get everything, get your money back and make money on it.

So I would want to be somewhere long-term before I bought. Are you, you said you're living with your parents? You bet, yes. Okay. So cost is very, very low for me. Okay, yeah, that's great. How long are you on the road for or how, yeah, versus how long are you just at your parents' house?

So basically like two weekends out of the month I'm at home. The rest of the time I'm either at the state or... That's great. Because for those of you listening, our stance with living with parents, if you have a goal and a timeline, absolutely, take advantage of that. He's not even living with them. No, he's not. That's what I was going to say.

But in a situation like this, there's not really a push to get you out because you don't need to be paying full rent because you're not home. I love that. So well done, Jimmy. Yeah, I would invest in the semi. I would. And man, you'll make so much money over the next couple of years. And that will give you, i think saving up for a down

payment on a home eventually i think is going to be uh definitely a goal for you i don't want to put an age to it necessarily i think it's more season of life knowing you're going to be planted somewhere for a long time but having it getting a house sooner than later i think is a smart move because the housing prices continue to go up so rachel would you say that um uh he's got he's about ready to finish baby step three? Can we do a 3A as the semi and then 3B as the house? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, totally. Is that what you think the order is? I think that's it. I think Jimmy goes for semi first, then down payment second. And you'll be able to get a down payment pretty quick. And Jimmy, that's the thing is you

can get, again, the buying real estate for you for the next step even if you're still doing this job and you're not home it's just getting into the market so it may just be a condo a two bedroom one bedroom townhouse or something you know it doesn't it doesn't have to be a big house but it's the idea that you're getting into the market and for that to be a great investment because the equity is going to rise on that property um throughout the years so getting into it next would be great well done j, Jimmy. Yeah, way to go. Jimmy, random question. Any chance you're in the semi right now?

I am, actually. Can you give us a little? Can you pull the horn? Everybody be quiet. Pull the horn. I can do that. Yes! That's my favorite moment all time on the Ramsey Show right there.

I just gave him the signal. One more time, Jimmy, to take us to break. Give us two. Yes! This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage,

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of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSConsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. RentWin, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz joins me. And we are here for you. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. We want to help you win in your relationships, in your work, and in your money. And speaking of winning with your money, you know, a lot of people right now, Rachel, are watching. What is the Fed going fed gonna do we've seen uh the interest rates on mortgages come down a

little bit off of a several year high and everybody's going do i buy do i sell right now what do i do and we've got some great advice for them yeah and even in the this showed ken i feel like we've had a lot of home questions even about like hey what's my next step well the the goal is to make your home and home ownership a blessing, not a burden. And so if you are in a place where you're like, okay, I'm thinking about selling, I'm thinking about buying, maybe I'm a first time home buyer, you know, having that 5% down payment is crucial. A 15 year fixed rate mortgage is what we recommend. And for your payments, we know more than 25% of your take home pay. It's kind of always been our formula for decades.

Regardless of what the housing market is doing, that just keeps your household budget in a good spot. But finding a house and specifically finding an agent that you trust who's really incredible and of high caliber in this area is really important. So the Ramsey Trusted Program really is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey. And they're going to get the best offer on your house or is going to help you find the right house. We send you to some of the top agents in your area who we trust, and you get to review their stats. You get to interview them and decide which one you want to work for because we have

multiple and different markets across the country. Ramsey Trusted Agents have years of experience and will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, the marketing, or in choosing the right offer as well if you're getting multiple offers.

So to find a Ramsey Trusted real estate agent for free, go to ramsaysolutions.com slash agent. And again, use this resource, you guys, because this is home buying.

For the majority of people, it's the largest investment you make in your personal finance, your personal finances. So do it well and do it right with an agent that we trust so that you can trust as well. So ramseysolutions.com slash agents. Yeah, good stuff. All right, let's get back to the phones. Kansas City is where we're going to go. And Jerry's there. Jerry, how can we help? Yes, my question relates to the national public data breach and what sort of steps should I be taking

to kind of make sure my social security isn't used to open a line of credit with that or what you know what kind of things should I expect to do? Yeah I mean there's a there's a couple things Jerry you know number one you can just freeze your credit if you're not currently in debt or using debts you can do that that's a that's a line of protection but having identity theft insurance yes yes is really really key it's really inexpensive and so i would recommend going to zander.com zander's who we use they actually they that's one of the benefits here at ramsey solutions is every employee every team member gets um identity theft as part of working here that's how much we believe in it because stuff like this is going to happen more and more um so yeah honestly i would go to yeah zander.com and check out their identity theft protection um and i would i would get a policy on you i'd get a policy of every

person in your household honestly too because even kids were seeing identity theft you know happening within kids as well and people running up stuff on their credit and i mean it's just it is wild so i would do that there's a number here on our screen that you can call as well and people running up stuff on their credit and i mean it's just it is wild so i would do that there's a number here on our screen that you can call as well uh jerry it's uh 800-356-4282 356-4282 uh and yeah that's what i would do personally jerry and i and then i mean that's a that's as much offense as i know to do, Ken, on this. Unless something does happen, then you do have to take action. But if you have identity theft protection, they go in and do a lot for you.

So just to kind of catch people up who may not know the story here, and Jerry, I'm glad you bring this up. Just kind of let people know, because you need to know, it is widely reported that hackers may have stolen the social security numbers of every American. That's me, Rachel. That's all of you. And so there is a notorious hacking group that has claimed to have stolen a ton of information. And so this is being reported across a lot of news networks. And you can find this story. It happened, what, two weeks ago?

Yeah, just last week, actually. Or last week, okay. Yeah. So that's what you can find this story. So it happened two weeks ago. Yeah. Just last week. Or last week. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, so that's what you can do. This is how you kind of check. So do that freeze. This is exactly what Rachel said until you can check everything and then go get protected with Zander, Zander insurance, zander.com 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Zander.com. And they do a great job. We get an email every month tells us we're good or what might be something we need to check into. And that protection. And there's other services like Delete Me and other places too that are incredible for online scammers as well. So identity theft protection, again, you guys, it protects your identity, social security, all of that. But then you think about how much are i how much our information not necessarily social security

number but just your address your phone number i mean all this i'm getting blown up political all the political stuff and i'm like where did my number get sold to like what list is you know is this too so um there's full-on companies that help people get their information off but it's gonna be i mean that's that's part of the curse of 2024 and technology. Because, I mean, I don't know about you, Kim, but I do. I plug in my information on stuff. So whether it's, you know, you're shipping something or buying something, whatever it is, it's just your, I mean, it feels like I'm putting in my information a lot on websites.

And by the way, just in the overabundance of giving you all information, the three credit bureaus that Rachel's talking about, again experian equifax and transunion you just it's a free deal call them or do it online you can put yeah and put a freeze on your credit and uh and and and that will pull your report once a year you guys regardless of whether it's a data breach or not make sure you pull your and you can do that for free um once a year so use those each of those companies and yeah get three reports three times a year all right let's uh let's go to john now in los angeles john how can we help hey there how's it going guys good how are you pretty good how can we help so um yeah so i've been in college pretty much all my life. I'm about 33, be graduating with a PhD next year. My wife just graduated, so she started working. So it's the first time we really have a

real income and a shovel. So we have $100,000 in debt, no retirement savings. And we kind of want to look into buying a house next year when I graduate. No. So we're not really sure. Yeah. No, John, no. No, John, we're interrupting because you're not catching. No. No, no, no. Okay, John, what are y'all going to be making? Household income together combined? So right now, today combined, we make $170,000.

Okay. When I start working, it should be $230,000. Great. When I finish my postdoc, because I still need a little bit more, it should be about $280,000 in about three years. Three years. Okay. But in the next four months, six months, what will it be?

Still $170,000 while I'm finishing up my PhD. And when will it bump up to $230,000? How long? When I find a job, probably next summer. So probably... A year, 12 months. July and September next year, yeah. Is the debt all student loans?

It's 60,000 in student loans, 40,000 in car loans. Okay, what's the car breakdown? What do you own each car? It is 17 and23,000. Okay. Both pay off in about four years. Yeah. Okay.

How are you guys? You guys currently are making $170,000 though, right? Is what you said. Yeah. So take home is $10,000 a month. Okay. And basic necessities is between $3,000 and $4,000. Okay.

So there's a lot of room there to tackle it. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, yeah. No, you guys have a great income, which I'm so thankful for, and it will continue to go up. Yeah, I think my goal, John, for you guys, if I was you between now and next summer, is I would be working on these car loans. And you may run some numbers and see,

what could you sell the 17 for, the $17,000 one? They would both break even. So I was just looking at it. Okay. And we owe pretty much exactly what we can trade in. Okay, okay. You know, I mean, to jumpstart this, I mean, you're not overly heavy in cars by any means

from our math when it comes to When we look at car debt Versus income But I would make it a goal To be cash flowing the rest of your school I would make it a goal to start Paying off that smallest debt So even if it's a small student loan

More before the car Just start working that debt snowball Working the smallest debt to the largest debt, and then be saving an emergency fund. And then I would say for a down payment on a home, but, but I'm really encouraged though, because your numbers, you guys can make some significant progress really fast. If you stay focused and you guys have a plan. So tonight lay out a timeline between now and the next three years and have some data points to say, yep, we want the car paid off here. We want this student loan paid off here. And you kind of map it out to know that you guys will get to saving to a down payment ASAP,

which is where I want you guys. Thanks for the call. Thanks for the call, John. We'll be back. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance. Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours

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So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. This is the Ramsey Show. We're thrilled that you are joining us. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. By the way, I meant to tell you, I love the denim jacket. Oh, thanks, Ken.

Appreciate that. Very nice. Ken's always my fashion buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is fun. Oh, thanks, Ken. Appreciate that. Very nice. Ken's always my fashion buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is fun. It's time, Rachel. Ask me what time it is. What time is it, Ken?

It's time for one of my favorite new segments. It's called Sorry I Missed Your Call. Oh, but we'll get back to you as soon as we can. That's right. And now we're coming back. We get a lot of calls that we can't get to live on the show. We have our voicemail. And so we want to try to get to some of those because, man, it's a bummer. I mean, you know, when I'm trying to call somebody I want to get a hold of,

I hate voicemail. Oh, it's the worst. But we are here for you people. So here we go. This is from Samantha. I'm calling because I know we have. Do we have the voicemail? Oh, I apologize. It'd be nice if I briefed myself on the actual segment. So we actually hear the voicemail? Oh, I apologize. It would be nice if I briefed myself on the actual segment so we actually hear the... A voicemail, Ken, is where you leave your voice on a digital mailbox. I thought I was reading it today because it's right here in front of me. I apologize. Let's go. Let's hear it.

Samantha. I'm calling because I've been married for 20 years, and I have a lot of frustration and resentment towards my husband because he has no passions or drive or ambition and his salary has not increased more than three percent in the last 20 years. And anything that I want in this life for myself or my children, I'm responsible for getting for us. And I'm tired and I feel unloved and taken care of. And I'm not sure if I should be stepping away from this relationship. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Man, that was a doozy. It's heavy.

So a couple things right out of the gate for Samantha. I think the resentment is because I think she thinks he's lazy. Mm-hmm. And I don't think this guy's lazy. I think he's lost. Now, lazy could very well be a symptom of being lost. But he has no vision for his future. And as a result, no direction. And when you have no direction, you feel frozen.

100%. And so I'm just kind of backing into that. There's a lot going on here. And that's the first thing I see as a male. I want to bring you in on this one. But the second thing that I see is, is that he needs help that she cannot give. And that's what makes this even more frustrating for Samantha. Because a guy who's in this situation, his wife can't be the one who goes snap out of it. The change has to come within him. It does. And he needs some help. Yes. And Samantha, if you're listening, I would love for you to reach out to us and I would love to, to get him connected with one of our coaches because we've got some financial coaches that

can also help him on the kind of career stuff and some of my stuff. I was going to say, if we have her contact, y'all, let's send her Ken's assessment. Let's get the assessment for him and find the work you're wired to do. But my point is that he needs someone outside, a therapist, maybe even get him in touch with our friends at BetterHelp. Yeah, totally. And just talk to somebody. I was going to say, not to sound like John Deloney here, but the rate of male depression

is very real. Oh, it's crazy. And it's not tapped into because guys won't get the help or seek the help or even realize it. And I'm not being selfish here on the content that I care about. I'm telling you, but one of the major reasons is when a guy doesn't feel like he's making a difference in the world, he begins to think that he doesn't matter. And he starts to not even notice the role of husband and father because there's men, unfortunately, more so than ladies.

We tend to put too much worth in our professional success. That's right. Totally. Well, and I was going to say, too, I don't think it would bother me if his income raised only 3% over 20 years, if he was doing something that he was incredible at and that he loved and was passionate about. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think that that would overcompensate. I think both are hitting her on both ends of it. Financially, she doesn't feel taken care of and alone. And then on the other end, she doesn't see any emotional drive from him. And which means he's probably a crappy husband, too, right? I think he is.

Yeah. So, like, he's not. I think he's a zombie. Yeah. To every part, every role of his life. And that's what needs to be addressed, not just the money side of it. And so, yeah, I mean, Smith, that is a really difficult thing and and i would encourage you um always when we talk about money and marriage and there's one spouse that's kind of like oh my gosh raising a lot of concerns like

the number one question always is have you told him yeah because the amount of times that people haven't and the resentment builds because it's in the head and it's golly this and you and you sit there internally for so long that starts to wear on you, Samantha. So I think it needs to be communicated. And I think it's fair as a wife that you are in a relationship with someone that you don't feel loved by on many different levels to say out loud, I need to see some things change. And I'm going to create boundaries for myself in order to protect myself in that way, even within a marriage. I think that there is a level of that that um needs to be said and is okay and and it's not to threaten him or to give those give him this ultimatum i don't like that either but it's to say like i care about our kids

and my own health well let me tell you why you're emotional health you've actually nailed it thank you ken but let me tell you love when people say that. On behalf of all men, in all seriousness, the reason that she needs to say that is because he might very well be unaware. I'm not even trying to be funny right now. I'm saying that men, I was telling a single gal this morning in our office who was telling a couple of us about her dating life. And I was like, you might want to have some of your friends tell this guy that you that you're kind of into him because there's a good chance he doesn't even know because and i was and i was joking i was having fun with that but dead serious and i think

that that men many times he might be shocked to your point that you gotta tell him you don't feel safe because what she's saying is i don't feel safe totally financially yep probably debt involved they're probably paycheck to paycheck we're probably inferring some things that are probably correct right however what you said that was so spot on is she's got to tell him how she feels because he may not be aware he's so soul sucked like it's the soul has been sucked out of his body probably. Yep. Yep. And he's just trying to make it through.

And I'm not in any way giving this guy a break. No, no, no. But it's the why. But it might be the wake up call that this guy needs is to hear from his wife and go, and he's like, what? And because so many guys, I'm just speaking on behalf of all men, we're pretty clueless a lot of times. You kind of have to spell it out for us.

Yep, yep. Is that fair to say? Yes. You know what I mean? I can't even find the mustard, Kelly, in my own refrigerator. Well, and another quote that I've heard, Deloney has said it. It's not his quote. It's another psychologist.

But it's so good. And it says, always choose guilt over resentment. Yeah. And I think that is brilliant. Because she may feel like golly i just feel maybe she doesn't but she could think oh my god i feel guilty i don't want to make him feel worse i feel good you know whatever whatever whatever and because of that she's been stuffing all of these emotions could be that's turned into resentment with with what we

heard on the call so choose guilt over resentment um all day all day and And so for her to, yeah, step up. And that's the hardest thing about marriage. We do a lot of money and marriage content here at Ramsey. And actually, John Deloney and I, Dr. John Deloney and I have a money and marriage conference that we're doing. The October one in a few months is sold out. But you're able to go to the Valentine's one in February.

So if you go to ramseysolutions.com slash events, you can check that out. But I'm saying all that to say, this is a topic we're very passionate about. But the hard thing about marriage, Ken, is that a lot of people think, oh gosh, we got to fix the marriage. But 99.9% of the time, you got to fix you.

I agree. You know what I mean? I agree. You're the one coming to the table within the marriage. And so that individual health is so key. That's why for him, I would, yeah, encourage him. I'd love to coach him up. I'm going to tell you, I've taken this call for years on the Ken Coleman show from women who were just being like, my husband's in a funk.

He's in a rut. And they're not lazy. They're lost. Yes, that's good. But the laziness and the way it comes across, like he doesn't have any initiative, that's a function of having no direction. And then the other thing, I'll say real quick,

and then I know we'll end the segment. Yeah, I got to make a quick announcement. Yeah, is that sometimes people are such hard drivers, and it's like, oh my God, and if you don't live up here with them, you're lazy. So not saying she's saying that, but also everyone's different. Yeah, maybe she runs faster.

All right, hey, for all of you listening on your favorite podcast app or via YouTube, the show is about to end, but more calls are already lined up, and you can get those only on the Ramsey Network mobile app. It's the only place to get the full episodes of The Ramsey Show. So if you're listening on radio, you don't have anything to worry about. Stay right where you are. Two ways to get the app. Click the link in the show notes or search Ramsey Network in the App

Store or Google Play. Great hour, Rachel Cruz. We'll be back with more before you know it. This is The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win with your money, win with your work, win with your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, the fabulous, the incomparable, the talented Miss Rachel Cruz. Or Ms. Rachel Cruz is the actual, not Ms. I'm married. You're married. It's Ms. Mrs.

Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms.

Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms.

Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms.

Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms.

Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms.

Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms.

Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Ms. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. All right, let's get to the phones. Brian is up in Birmingham, Alabama. Brian, how can we help? How are y'all doing today? We're having a blast.

What's going on? Awesome. Thanks for taking my call. So my wife and I are parents of seven children. Whoa. We made a decision a long time ago that it was important, and it's always been my wife's decision, let me say that. Anyway. What, to have seven kids?

That's right. That's right. Everybody's blaming me. I'm like, I swear I had nothing to do with it. I love that you had the courage to say that on a very large show. By the way, it was always her call. I could do without all of them. I know you didn't say that. In 2017, we went through Dave Ramsey's program at Fern introduced us to it. We ran, man. We ran like heck. We paid off

everything we owned except our house in the 2021. We actually bought our first home and paid it off completely with cash. Golly, well done, Brian. Yeah. I don't think you ever sleep between the debt journey, the seven kids. By the way, just for all of us, how old are the kids? What's the age range?

So 21 to 12. My youngest is 12 and my oldest just turned 21 today. I'm exhausted. Oh, wow. I'm exhausted just hearing that. Well, I, you know, I know one of the baby steps is saving for your kids tuition. And obviously with six kids, it's been, it's been a challenge. You know, I know in my life, I worked full time, went to school full time and was raising kids even when I graduated. But we've kind of done

everything we can for our kids. You know, I've bought them each a car as they approach college. That's one of my commitments is I'll get you a beater, not a brand-new car, you know, a $4,000 or $5,000 car. And I put about $4,000 or $5,000 apiece for them, and I cover all kinds of incidentals as they get started. I try and get them through their first year. But they've chosen some expensive schools.

My daughter wants to be a nurse, so obviously she wanted a little bit of a more reputable school. And they're not – my oldest son graduated with no college debt, which is amazing. But my second oldest son is starting his second year, and he's got enough money to cover his second year. Really, this is a conscience check for me. Should I stop putting money in retirement and cover their tuitions? Should I just continue to help them as much as I can? Am I a bad dad because I can't pay for all of their college tuition? No. First of all, you're a great dad, and you need to know that. You're a great dad. You're a great dad. College is a blessing. It is

not an entitlement. So just because you're 18 doesn't mean you get to go to college. If you're able to, that's a gift. That's a huge opportunity. But doing it the right way is what's key here. And you know, Brian, you know what we say about college, you know, of cash flowing in, which means school choice is huge. And when you said, well, my daughter chose a reputable school. Can I tell you,

you know, say it. I love it. Pediatricians, labor and delivery nurses, any level of medical care. I have never once been like, I'm sorry,

I need to go into your office and see your degree, please. So true. You don't even know where you went. Nobody cares. I don't know. So, so the reputable thing,

if they weren't reputable, but they wouldn't be in business they'd be fined out right i mean like it's that's not a so you can go to still a a state school and and when you go into the medical degree world where you pick is even more important because it can triple i mean like it's it's so wild yeah the the price is disparaged so what i would say to you brian is i would coach them and i would tell them up front which i feel like you've done you communicate very effectively to us so i feel like you probably do that as a dad too that here's how much we have for you um let's map out the next four years let's look at if you went to a community college for this year and this year you could save

this much and this much that could roll over to third like like help them right you you can be alongside of them and be that adult brain because their frontal cortex Brian is still not fully formed until you're like 24 did you know that your brain functioning I'm not sure in your mid-20s I'm not sure mine has ever gotten there I think it stopped somewhere along the way I think it's slower for guys I agree yeah but I'm just saying Brian I mean I think the biggest gift you give them is helping. If you are able to help financially, that's a gift. But helping with your wisdom and guidance is a gift because when they're 24 years old, they're going to look back and be like, Dad, thanks so much for coaching us through that time.

And I want you to tell them why their retirement is way more important than their kid's tuition. Yeah, and if you can do both right now, I would. Like if you had that 15% that you're putting away, Brian, because you guys are on Baby Step 7. Your house is paid for. I'm putting away a lot more than that. Do what? I'm putting away a lot more than that.

Okay, so then there you go, Brian. I would back that down, down to 15% to get the kids through college and helping them that way. That's what I would do. That's what I would do. Yeah, see, we didn't know that, Brian. You're crushing it. The 15% is our guideline.

And so whatever you feel like you can do above and beyond that, then I would help. But not to the tune of I got to somehow break my back to fund my sweet daughter's favorite school that happens to be in the SEC. Right, right, right. And it's got a good football team and, oh, a good nursing program. Like, nobody cares. Yep, yep.

Yeah. Yeah, I would say that. But so, Brian, how much is in your retirement? I have about $250,000 and $401,000. I got $100,000 in the bank, and I own a $600,000 home. Okay. How old are you? Yeah, how old are you?

I'm 54. 54, okay. 54 okay so yeah so you got another what are you just so i'm curious how much percentage of income are you putting towards retirement right now you said way more than 15 well yeah my so my take home uh 25 percent of it goes directly to um 401k wow um and then uh don't don't get mad at me. I should have taken Dave's advice a long time ago on Roth IRAs and I didn't. So this year, because obviously I can over-contribute, I'm maxing out the Roth IRA this year as well. Good for you.

And still saving. And I still have 529s for the kids, so I still move money into some basic saving plans for them to help. That's great. That's great. That's great. Yeah, so I would back down retirement because that's for, you know, a few more years until the 12-year-old putting some money in there.

But, yeah, I mean, I would do that. And some of these kids may actually go to a trade school. 46% of American parents, this is brand-new data, by the way, from Gallup, 46% of American parents say they'd rather have their kids go to trade school than college. And I think that is a mass. I was talking about that with my friend Mike Rowe, the Dirty Jobs celeb. And I'm going to tell you something. I don't

know if you and your wife are in that 46%, but I only bring that up to say the tide is turning and we're seeing kids that are going to an electrician school come out making 60 grand out of the gate. The more these kids talk about that on TikTok, and they are, then you never know what your 12 year old or 16 year old are going to do i just want to point that out so i want you taking care of you and your wife yeah yeah brian

you guys are killing it you really are yeah you're in great shape you're a good dad yeah i appreciate that just don't tell the kids that you didn't want all seven of them. You know what I mean? Just us. Just us. Keep that between us and the million of people that heard that just now. But, hey, I think you're on a great track. Love the Ramsey stuff. I mean, holy mackerel. What a game changer for our family.

I mean, raising seven kids and paying off every ounce of debt we had was so sweet. It's amazing. Well, you guys did it, Brian. I mean, it changes your life. You did it. You did the change you did it that's incredible we're cheering for you man i love that you're a real hero what a great what a great guy great family seven kids i'm exhausted with three that's my kids are more exhausting ages than yours oh that's a debate for the time i'm gonna debate that and say that teenagers are more exhausting than littles. Probably emotionally.

Way, way. Yeah, that's fair. I'll give it to you. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 888-825-5225 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Before we get back to the phones, folks, if you're going to win with your money, you're going to win by first understanding how to actually budget.

The best way to make the most of your money is to create and stick to a really, really good budget. Every dollar, which is our budgeting tool, makes it simple to plan, spending, track expenses, and save for what matters most to you, all in an easy-to-use app that fits with your lifestyle. Keep a pulse on your spending and make progress with your money goals with EveryDollar. Download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. All right, let's go to Dallas, Texas, where Chris joins us. Chris, how can we help?

Hey, Ken, Rachel. I appreciate you taking my call. Basically, I've been in the ministry now for over 30 years, and for the most part, my family has lived in a parsonage, and that has some benefits. It has some big negatives. And over the past three and a half years, we've been at a place that God called us to a church

that did not have a parsonage, and we were able to purchase our first home. And so that's great. But the problem is the home was 20 minutes away from the church, and now we have an opportunity to sell that home, purchase some land near the church, and build our own home. And in the process, now we bought the home in 2020, when the prices were down. We are going to hopefully be able to sell it for quite a bit more, and we're looking at tithing on that profit. And in the process of thinking about this, essentially what we've thought about is, you know, what exactly do we tithe on that? Is it the whole what we make?

Is it just a profit? You know, and then the thoughts came up where if we were selling a home and turning around and buying a home, we wouldn't ever see any of that money. So the situation would be different. So I just wanted to reach out and see what your thoughts are. Yeah. Well, I'm going to come at this because I'm talking to a guy who's been in ministry. I'm a pastor's kid, and I think you understand this language. I think that's between you and the Lord, to be honest with you. And I think you probably understand what I'm saying without getting into a bunch of Christianese. From a theological standpoint, I think that's the priesthood of the believer, and that's between you and the holy spirit on what you think you should do there but personally uh because you're taking that money and putting it into the land uh to build a new

home i i i wouldn't tithe on that personally that's me rachel do you disagree yeah i mean the way we teach the tithe chris um and it kind of is more of an Old Testament approach, obviously, of the 10th, and it is coming from labor, right? Your income. So when we teach people about giving, and specifically if you are a Christian and you're using a biblical approach to your giving, the tithe is to the local church. So 10% is something that we encourage people to do, whether you're a faith or not, because giving overall is good for your soul, for who you are as a person. And so again, that 10%, though,

what we teach to do here at Ramsey is that you tithe on your income, not necessarily the sale of having equity somewhere else, because you technically, that property earned growth and value because of the market not because of you specifically going out and working for it so if you want to like really split hairs um because it is considered income taxable income yeah of the sale of the home yeah but yes it is but it's not it was not labor no no i'm with you know what i

mean like if you go back to that it it's, yeah. So again, I hate being legalistic when it comes specifically to giving, because I feel like that just ruins the spirit of it all. So for some people, I'm like, yeah. Chris, what do you think you should do? I know you called us, but what do you think you should do before you called us? Well, honestly, I go back to what you said, Ken, about it is between me and the Lord. And it is something where we desire to give back to the church that has helped us be a part of this community and give back to the Lord who has blessed us so much. So essentially, we will probably tithe, maybe not the tithe temp, but we may give just because it's good. It is good to give. Yeah, absolutely. Now, I do have a question. You'd mentioned

something about having that taxed. Now, there's a form, I think 1031 exchange? Yes. Now, is that something that I would... Yeah, you would be tax protected in that sense okay yeah because it's going to be like like-kind property is what you would do right so you could just roll it over to yep a new build so yeah you're exactly right yeah okay i just wanted to make sure and at what point would i fill that out uh i think it's after the the sale before the the sale of the home or the purchase of the lands honestly i would probably get with an attorney to double check on get a tax attorney tax pro you if you want to go to ramsey solutions.com and check out some of the tax pros you can withhold it i think

an escrow even too so i think there's there's some um lines within that and then there are yeah there are some some timelines that you want to make sure that you're within in order to get that exemption so uh yeah but i I would talk to a tax attorney, Chris, just to double check all of that and make sure you do it the right way for sure. But yeah, so I'm with you. And I want to say this just for anyone else listening that's not in a specific position, that the topic of giving, it is a very personal decision, right? Whether you're doing it from a a lens of faith or not giving regardless of where you are financially needs to be part of your plan and if that means you're given a little right now because you're starting out till you can give a lot that's great but the habit of giving

is so crucial to who you are as a person so chris the fact you're even asking the question i i really do appreciate because um because people that just are givers that live with an open hand like this. It's always rewarded. It really is. Yeah, and just the heart and the perspective of life. There's just a piece about that type of living that is really beautiful. And yeah, so I just applaud you, Chris. Thanks for the question. Yeah, absolutely. All right, Nelson is up in Boise, Idaho. Nelson, how can we help? Hi. So my wife and I recently, April 2020, we sat down with what we thought was a financial advisor and turns out he was nothing more than a insurance salesman. Oh man. And i didn't catch on to what was going on until march of this year and he sat down with us and i thought we were signing up for a high interest um a high yield

savings account um well it is an indexed universal life insurance policy. Oh, gross. And they take 50% right off the top for fees, maintenance, and fees and everything. I have put $26,500 in there. And there is a accumulation value of $15,825. And a zero surrender value right now. And a surrender charge of $17,113. If I drop that to a zero on the death benefit, and he will be charging me another $14,000 to maintain this account. And each $500 payment is controlled by this company for 10 years. Is that money gone or is there something I can do or. That when you go in and cancel it?

Yes. And after, after I asked this gentleman to quit taking payments, he continued to take a payment afterwards, claiming he couldn't cancel it in time. For a month or like a full year? For a month. Yeah, you documented all this? Yes, this is all documented. And one of your smart investor pros has been helping me with this. Good, good. He is phenomenal. good well they're actually far more you know in the weeds and experienced on this than

we are um so i'm glad you're in good hands there but i'd fight that on that one issue that one payment i'd fight that i'd get his manager on the phone i mean i'd just do the old squeaky wheel and uh you've got it how much was that per month? How much was that that they took out? I have put $26,500 into it so far. No, what was the monthly, the one payment that they took out after you said you canceled? $500. Yeah, I'd fight that. I'd absolutely fight that.

Yeah, and then also with this, yeah, and Nelson, I think you're smart, I'm supposed to be able to walk through all the math and know the stipulations of this, of what you signed. Because I don't know exactly what you signed. So, yeah. I mean, like, yeah. If there is that clause of that surrender charge, I mean, it may just be a stupid tax thing. It might be. We just signed up for one of the worst financial products on the planet, Nelson.

I'm so sorry. That's why whole life, you guys, it's a scam. It's terrible. I got to go get some Maylocks. This is The Ramsey Show. Hello, America. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman.

Rachel Cruz joins me. And the phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. We're taking your questions about your money, taking your questions about your income or your work, and then we're taking your relationship questions surrounding money. That's what we do here, so we'd love to hear from you. We take calls from all around the country, many times around the world. Now we take a call right here in our backyard, Franklin, Tennessee.

Daniel's on the line. Daniel, how can we help? Hey, Ken and Rachel, thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? Yeah, so my wife and I are $120,000 in debt, and we are considering selling our home and our three vehicles in order to use the equity to pay off that debt.

And we will be able to purchase two used vehicles with a little bit of leftover money. And I'm just curious if this is something we should consider or if we should just keep working the baby steps, even though we're about four or five years away from our payoff date. Where would you live, I'm curious, after you did this. We would probably move a little bit further south, like Columbia, and we'd end up saving a few hundred bucks if we rented for a little while. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So normally, Daniel, kind of, and I want to get to more of the numbers specifically. Normally, we don't encourage you to sell your house in order to pay off consumer debts because usually it's just you can figure out a way

to pay off it while keeping your home, primary home. If the home isn't the issue, we usually discourage that depending on your numbers. So how much do you guys make a year? It's $140,000 combined. Oh, beautiful. Okay. Break down the $120,000 of debt.

Give me like, go debt by debt. Yep. Student loans combined is $70,000. Okay. Cars is $40,000. Okay. Per car, what is it? It is, I've got it right here.

It's $12,000 on a truck, $28,000 on an SUV. Okay. And then keep going. And then $10,000 on a credit card $28,000 on an SUV. Okay. And then keep going. And then $10,000 on a credit card. And then credit card. Okay. Tell us more about that $28,000 SUV. Yeah, I'd say a 2021 Explorer, we owe $28,000 on it, and it's worth about the same, maybe

$30,000. Okay. So you can make two grand on that. I'm going to jump in here and say, if I was going to eliminate anything, I would go after that one because they're about break-even and they can drive a beater or something. I don't know what you think, Rachel. What about the $12,000? What could you sell it for? I'm seeing about $15,000 on Marketplace. Okay. Do you guys have any money saved? We don't, but we do have a third vehicle that's been paid off for years and it's worth about $20,000 on Marketplace. Okay. Do you guys have any money saved? We don't, but we do have a third vehicle that's been paid off for years, and it's worth about $20,000.

Okay. All right. What is that? What's the third vehicle? It's a Mustang Cobra. Okay. So I'm selling that. No.

Whoa, whoa. Whoa. Easy on the selling the Cobra that's paid off. Oh, my gosh. What year is that? It's an 04. It is my dream car, but I also want to get out of debt.

Yeah, Cobra or the house. I mean, this is a guy telling us to sell the car. He's asking to sell the house before the car. No, he keeps the Cobra because it's paid off and he sells the other two. I'm saying sell the other two.

Keep the paid off Cobra. We're saying the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Daniel, you get to decide which car you want to keep but you were so quick with the dream but the idea here is that you guys i mean but but here's what's wild is i'm like oh my god but you could sell that for 20 i'm like you easily can get this debt down just car wise daniel car wise yeah you can get your debt down to 75 000 what's the car payment so 75 000 my point is

though 75 000 to 140 000 income you can have your debt paid off not in four or five years daniel you can do this in freaking absolutely a year live on 70 yeah i'd sell both those other two cars and and then get something really really cheap yeah because you get a five thousand dollar car with the sale the sale of those that's what i'm saying he keeps this i'm with you i'm not i'm not actually disagreeing with the method but i was like take it easy on the cobra yeah so that so i mean all of this daniel i mean just some decisions i would be selling cars for sure before the house and do you do and i know 140 is probably it that's before taxes, right? Yes.

Yeah, okay. So you're down to like, what? I don't know, 100 at that point. But let's do quick math. What's the combined car payments on both cars? Oh, good point. 950. Bro.

So you got an extra thousand dollars coming in. Daniel, what? You crushed that credit card immediately. I'm so curious. Why do you think this would take you four to five years when you called at the beginning of this call whenever yeah so whenever i do the budget on every dollar the the roadmap does estimate because we now i will admit we are not as tight with the budget as we can be we have made weak you know progress over the last you're living 140 000 lifestyles what's happening oh. Uh-oh. It's true. We are living a little bit of a, I don't know if I'd say lavish lifestyle,

but I would say that we have a very tight budget, and the roadmap is showing us as having a payoff date around early 2029. Yeah, but that's because you're not putting the right info in it. We just doctored the whole thing up. This is a game changer. By taking away those vehicles, yeah. And freeing up 900 dollars a month that's true you're not wrong well i know so now i'm keeping the house and i'm living on

nothing daniel is it just you and your wife or do you guys have kids we have two young children three years old and one okay yeah they don't know you give them goldfish they're fine they don't care cut everything yeah i mean daniel yeah you guys can do this man in 18 months you can be completely debt free and cut up the stupid credit cards just change change the whole way you guys have been doing it and i'm so proud of y'all for doing every dollar i mean you're on the right track i agree i mean do you have your credit cards with you? I have it in a firebox in my closet. I don't tuck it. I was going to make you cut them up on the air. You need to do something dramatic. Bro, listen, here's the other thing.

Thankfully, it's just the one, but it's still just as bad. But it still went $10,000 in. One can still do damage. And here's the deal. Here's why I love Rachel's advice. We're are your neighbors essentially you need to keep that house that's that's a phenomenal asset you don't need to dump that asset in williamson county my man and here's the other problem right yes and when people call into the show and they you know and i'm not picking on you daniel but they're like hey we could sell our house and wipe all this clean or maybe we get calls oh i got an inheritance i could just be debt free tomorrow or like you get a insurance claim oh my gosh the problem with these quick wipeouts is it doesn't change the behavior it's a quick fix which is beautiful and it's a blessing right

like that that's great but it doesn't fix daniel and the problem is is that you're going to follow you into the next season of your life until you decide to change you and your wife together and so you guys going through this process of taking that every dollar budget and cutting out to eat cutting all the exciting stuff that you guys are doing here in franklin and you and you squeeze that budget down and you're living on nothing you're sacrificing together you're both miserable together blame me and ken you know throughout the night of oh my gosh i can't believe our life is so terrible don't blame me i just saved your cobra and rachel had that thing on the block i'm very thankful for that my wife will be upset my wife will definitely be upset whenever i tell her that y'all told us to sell the uh

her car the explorer so yeah the stupid mustang yeah i i don't sell the explorer it's it's dropping in value your mustang's paid for she's wrong i'm right oh my gosh i'm trying to help him out i know i know so daniel he's gonna need that cobra when all he's doing is eating rice and beans and pbjs you know he's gonna need something to hold on to drive fast feel the wind in his hair this weather's phenomenal yeah i, Daniel. I'm a man of the people. What about his wife? She's fine. She's going to have a $5,000 car. No, I'll tell you what.

Let her drive the Cobra. But she don't want a Cobra. She wants an SUV. That's what I'm saying. It's the beater or the Cobra. She'll choose the Cobra. This is great advice. I think I married the right woman. I think she would.

Thank you very much. She's got two little kids. I don't want to be buckling in car seats in a Mustang. She needs to leave the kids with him, go get in the Cobra and drive fast. Let the wind blow through her hair. Lord have mercy. Well, you're really trying to get rid of a good car here. I'm just saying, a mom with two kids needs to be happy.

She's Thelma and Louise in that thing. She goes and picks up her friend and they go out on the town. Daniel, you guys can do this in 18 months. Come right down the street in the Cobra and then come to Ramsey and give us a high five when you're debt free. I want to point out that there's

a couple married dudes in the lobby watching this and they're pointing at me going, I'm picking up what you're laying down. And the moms are like, Rachel, we get you. Well, she's shaking her head too. It's a happy marriage. Right, Jodi, you get me. Don't sell the Cobra. But do everything else and then it's going to

be really good. You can do this. Don't sell the house. That's the point. Don't sell the house. Alright, don't move. We'll be right back with more of your calls. Rachel and I will debate it in the break and I'll probably have to apologize when we come back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, America. The phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225.

I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. Our scripture of the day comes from Psalm 37, 23, and 24. The Lord makes firm the steps of the one who delights in him. Though he may stumble, he will not fall, for the Lord upholds him with his hand. And John Wooden is the famed Wizard of Westwood, the legendary coach of UCLA basketball. He once said, do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. Good stuff there. That's a good quote.

Crystal is up next in San Antonio, Texas. Crystal, how can we help? Hi, sir. And hi, ma'am. I'm sorry to bother y'all. Wait a second, Crystal. Bothering us. Crystal, this is what we do.

Yeah, we're happy to talk to you. We're honored to talk to you. What's going on? We're so glad you called. Well,is is what we do. Yeah, we're happy to talk to you. We're honored to talk to you. What's going on? We're so glad you called. Well, if I'm being honest with you, I'm trying to figure out if we should go ahead and I have a, obviously I know what you're going to say. It's not term life. I had it since I was 18. I opened it up. But I have a permanent life insurance policy and I have a whole life. We actually have four in total, me and my husband. We did two of them where we pay

for 15 years and after it's paid off, no matter when we die, I'll pay out. We just have to pay for 15 years. And then I have another one that me and my husband both have where we pay for 20 years. And if we die from the time we open it to 20 years, then I'll pay out. If it doesn't, we get all the money we put back to us. They send us a system check at the end of it. So regardless, we get our money back one way or another. The problem is that I don't know if I should cancel them or not. I'm in a kind of a pickle. Me and my husband, we-

Yeah, what's the buy-hug? When you cancel, give me the math rundown of that. What happens to the 15-year policy in the 20-year? Do you know? I know that the 20-year, that one, regardless, we get our money back. So if I were to cancel it sooner, they get like 3% of whatever we paid in. Okay, so how much would you get out of that if you canceled it?

Honestly, I've been paying on it every month for years now. I wouldn't know the exact numbers. I see one of them is 60 a month. The other one is 55 a month. Cause that's one for me, one for my husband. And then the other one that is the 15 year, that one is a hundred dollars me and my husband every month. So you're looking at,

we pay at least 300 and something in life insurance for four life insurance policies. So 1200 a month. No, it's three,200 a month? No, it's $300 a month, $310 a month is what we pay. Oh, for all four. So that's all four combined. Yeah, for all four. I'm sorry.

I thought that was $300 per. Yeah, which is basically, you know, you can get that. That's a lot of money. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot going out, for sure, on four types of insurance that you don't need. So $3,600 a year times how many years you've been doing that? The lower end ones, I opened mine up before my husband. So I did mine since 2013.

My two, so which one is $55 and the other one is $100. And then my husband's, we opened his up when we got married, which was in 2017. So the bottom line is you need to know how much you get back and how much they keep because this sounds like you're going to get a decent amount of money that could help you right now because you're struggling. Because here's the truth, Crystal. I would be canceling them anyways.

I would not continue to give them this amount of money per month for the next 5 six seven eight nine ten years um because you can get a term life for basically i mean what you pay for two months of this stuff i mean like it's just it's so inexpensive and this is and where they're putting your money from an investment standpoint you're going to get a crappy rate of return versus if you're investing on your own so i would look, Crystal, and I would cancel these policies. Take the money that you had. You guys both get term life

before you cancel these policies, making sure that there's not like a lag time in between. But I would go through, yeah, and I would get rid of them. And there may be some dings of fees or whatever, but I would just chalk that up to stupid tax. I wouldn't keep doing something stupid because you've been doing it does that make sense yeah no that makes sense

yeah because i just didn't know where to cut the bills and i'm like looking at it and yeah it's a it's not a great product that's right yeah cut it for sure um and then what else is going on uh household budget wise where where are you guys still if you freed up 350 a month? Does that feel like okay, that's that's starting to feel good. Is that significant to y'all right now? How does that feel? Oh, that that helps a lot. And honestly, I mean, it's not to give you kind of a rundown. My husband works oilfields. So you know, that goes up and down. Yeah, that's not always guaranteed. Yeah. But made a decision, and maybe it was not the smart decision. If I'm being honest with you, y'all can debate on that for me.

But me and my husband took over six years to get our daughter. We had to do IVF. And when we put the money aside for it, we did. I mean, she costed us $284,000, and we paid it. She's worth every nickel. Good for did not have to finance any of it. Good for you. Well done, Crystal. Hey, you know what?

That should tell you something, that you guys can get out of whatever you're in right now. It doesn't feel like it. But, sweet Crystal, listen to me. I left my job to be a stay-at-home mom, and now we have a mortgage. We literally just, our first mortgage payment is due September 1st I made it today but I already feel struggling and I feel like we're drowning because when I'm doing the numbers on one income I feel like we're gonna drown so guess what Crystal it might be hard it might be hard but you can go back to work or Crystal you guys change your living situation

because or so that the house was based on two incomes and you guys made a values-based decision, which is fine for you to come home, which means other things are going to have to look different. Go ahead. Well, I was going to say the house was honestly based on my husband's income alone. I've been home since December.

When they did our income, it was only on my husband's. Okay, okay. And they said we're fine on it it but i don't think we are it's a how what percentage of it is when he well i know his his income fluctuates um but have you guys like pro rated out what he makes per year even though i know it comes in at different points but i'm just curious 148 000 okay what's your mortgage payment? $2,168 a month. And what does he bring in home like average month? After taxes, about $8,000. Okay. It doesn't sound like we're in debt, but if you add our car payments, you add the life insurance, you add the car insurance.

I believe it. Oh no, we got you. I believe it oh no we got i believe it what's your car situation uh we have our two vehicles um we're going to be paid off in two years um that's a good news but we're struggling well how much how much how much is each car how much do you owe on each um we owe 19 on one and i believe 18.9 on the other. What are the combined? RV is $14,500. Sell the RV. Sell the RV.

Sell the RV. Crystal, you guys are trying to keep living almost like you guys are on two incomes. And let me just say, Crystal, you're very average. This is like the average American. Two car payments, you got something else here i mean it this is this is the the american cycle that here at ramsey we just break in half to say that you so i would get rid of that i mean what's

the rv payment on month uh i refinanced it so i'd have a lower interest rate just tell me the number we don't have a lot of time. $535. $535 a month. We're going to put that back in your budget the minute you sell the RV. Are you with us? Yes. And how much could you sell the $19,000 car for? Well, those vehicles, I don't think we would be able,

I think we'd be upside down because we have mileage on them. My husband uses his truck to go to Odessa and I need a vehicle to... Well, I would Kelly Blue Book them. We just talked to a caller last segment and they were up like $2,000. Some cars are underwater. I want to point out something really quick, Crystal. Between you selling the life insurance policies and getting money back, we are estimating right here, you got to go do your numbers. We're estimating that we have found on this phone call almost $900 a month. If we sell the RV and we get the insurance money out of our budget, we've got $900 a month, roughly. Would you agree with that, Crystal? Yes, I would agree. Would that give you a lot of breathing room?

Oh, definitely. Now, Crystal, I'm not telling you. Listen, I don't want to be insensitive. I'm not telling you to go back to work full time. But maybe working at a job from home where you can be near a baby for a season to get these cars out of your life. Now, all of a sudden, we're living okay and we're on our way to being debt free. Oh, freaking sell the cars. Peace is much better than car payments.

I like that. Wow. Crystal, you can do this. You got it, girl. Rachel Cruz, thank you. Good hour. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.