The Ramsey Show - App - Beating the Budget Monster Isn't as Scary as You Think (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 28, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for jumping in, America. We're glad you're here. The phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

William starts off this hour. Oxford, Mississippi calling. Hey, William, how are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Okay, so me and my fiancee, we're both 22, and we're about to graduate from the University of Mississippi. Cool. Right now, I own a four-bedroom, four-and-a-half bath townhome here in Oxford, and the real estate market really is booming here.

New places are getting sold before the slabs are ever poured. And my question is, we are planning on moving to Orlando, Florida after we graduate, and I know I'm going to rent there, but do I need to keep the house that I have here and rent it out since it's in a good town, or do I need to go on and sell it and take the money that I profit from it and kind of put it into student loan debt and other things? Let's fast forward it and see where your decision lands you three years from now. So you guys are getting married this summer and graduating, right?

Correct. And you're moving to Orlando to take a job that is already preset, right? Hers is, yes, I would be going into my field. Okay. And what is your field? Management Information Systems. Good. And what is her field? She is in Integrated Marketing Communications. Great.

And she's already landed her gig. Okay. Cool. She's actually working with a retail company right now, so she won't necessarily be in her graduating field, but she has a good job already, and she's going to be getting a promotion by moving there. I see.

Okay. Good. Good. Okay. So three years from now, you're working in moving there. I see. Okay. Good. Good. Okay. So three years from now, you're working in your field. She's still working for them. You're living in Orlando, Florida. And you had, by the way, at that point, you are a Mississippi alumni.

You had graduated from Oxford. And the opportunity comes up to buy rental property in your finances. Would you go buy rental property at that point in Orlando, or would you go buy it in Oxford? Answer, Orlando. Why? Because you can watch over it. You know the market.

You can stay on top of it. Managing college property in a college town long distance is a good way to get it torn down by the tenant. Okay? And so you come back, and there's nothing left but a slab. So, no, I would never keep a property long distance, particularly in the first two or three years of your marriage. You're going to have enough drama without dealing with tenants.

Awesome. And the biggest thing is I know because that I will make some profit off of what I've already kind of invested into the house. Great. I've got it reappraised about six months after I bought it. And because all of this, I guess, Plex has been built and there's no more for sale out here besides people that own them and are selling them. And they've already went up 12000 from whenever we originally bought it. That's awesome.

That's good. And I will be able to get my down payment back as well. Yeah, you'll make all your money back. So how much money will you clear putting in your pocket after you sell it? After I sell it, I'll probably. In cash walking away. Is that including me getting my down payment back? Cash walking away.

How much money are you going to walk away from the closing table with? About $25,000. Good. And you're brand new married that's awesome good that's a blessing well it's good it was a good investment it turned out good for you and you happen to be selling like you said in a very hot market so price it up a little i mean if we're gonna take the chips off the table let's take them all so get get some extra price on the thing and let's jack it up make it maybe make it sell a little bit slower that's fine get a little more money out of it but uh um you know you've got a great start here i would not i would not mess up my first year of marriage dealing with tenants i would not mess up my first five years of my marriage or any part of my life dealing with

long-distance tenants and long-distance landlording even even though the market's hot. I live in Nashville, Tennessee. It's a white-hot market, but there's some other markets that are white-hot that are actually even better and stronger. Not many, but there's a few. I could take my money easily and go down there, but by the fact that it's long-distance is a good way for me to lose my butt. And so I've kept all of my real estate investing within about 30 miles of my house. And I can actually drive by it and look at it and make sure it's still there. So that's what we do. Hey, thanks for calling in.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. You can call in or you can follow us on Twitter. You can do whatever you want to do along those lines. Facebook.com. Twitter is at Dave Ramsey. Facebook.com slash Dave Ramsey is about just under 5 million of you. Twitter is about 800, 900,000 of you. Thanks for hanging out.

We appreciate that. Thomas is on Twitter. For the debt snowball, should I list my student loans as individual debts or look at them all as one, individual debts? If you've got a pile of medical, you've got a pile of student loans, you've got two car payments, they're all individual debts. And we list them smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one with a vengeance going right down the line. Our question today comes from Blinds.com.

They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, which means even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey to get the best deal. Today's question is from Robert in Georgia. He says, I hear you talking about saving for college, but what is your stance on vocational training and tech schools instead of college? Nothing wrong with it at all.

You know, here's the thing. There's direct correlation between your income if you get a four-year degree, if you get a good degree in vocational training or tech schools, versus high school graduate only. Knowledge that causes you to make more money is valuable knowledge, whether it's a marketing degree or whether it's an HVAC installation degree. Knowledge that causes you to make more money is good knowledge. That's a utilitarian view of academics. Some people view academics as just broadening your horizons and philosophically having a better view on life.

Actually, academics does do that, but it won't pay the student loan debt. So it's not worth broadening your horizons for $100,000 in the hole and then call yourself a whiner because you can't pay your student loan debt. So I don't want to hear about your broadened horizons. I want to hear about your broadened wallet as a result of studying. That's the plan. That's what you want to do. So no trouble at all if you want to do about your broadened wallet as a result of studying. That's the plan. That's what you want to do. So no trouble at all if you want to do vocational training.

For instance, I'll tell you where a VOTEX degree is better than a four-year degree in most cases, and that would be that if you're going to be a web developer, if you're going to study Ruby on Rails and you're going to get Microsoft certifications in order to do tech work, IT-type work, you're better off not going and getting a four-year degree. Most of what you study getting a four-year degree in information systems is obsolete by the time you get out of school because that world changes every minute. And it's all about being cutting edge on tech and on programming and on writing code.

And so, you know, really that's what's important there as an example. Obviously, you don't need an engineering degree, a mechanical engineering degree to run a heating and air company. But learning how to install heating and air would be handy, wouldn't it? And taking some business courses on how to balance your books on your heating and air business would be handy. So you can do all of that at Vo-Tech. Not any issue with Vo-Tech.

But it's not the answer for everyone, and it's not the answer for no one. It's the answer for some people that have been that way in certain fields. And certainly, as with all education, pay cash. There's nothing smart about smartphones if your wireless plan is blowing your budget each month. Pure Talk USA offers smarter wireless with unlimited plans starting as low as $20 per month. You never pay data overage fees and we never turn off your data. No contracts, no hidden fees, and if you're thinking our low cost means less coverage, think again. Our voice and data service covers 99% of Americans, and our 4G LTE network provides the fastest internet speeds like more expensive carriers. We operate on the largest GSM network in the U.S.

to ensure you receive reliable coverage virtually anytime, anywhere. Plus, you can keep your same phone and number and add multiple lines to save more. We're so confident you'll love Pure Talk USA that we invite you to try our service risk-free. Visit puretalkusa.com or call 844-862-3677. Enter promo code SAVEDAVE and receive 50% off your first month. That's puretalkusa.com. Thank you for being with us, America. Isabel is in Orange County, California. Hey, Isabel, what's up?

Hi, Dave. I have a question. My dad asked me for some retirement advice regarding payment options he has, and I wasn't too sure on what to advise him. Okay. What are his options? So he has a single life annuity payable to him at $1,400. A 10-year certain life annuity payable to him $1,300 and $1,300 to my mom. A five-year certain life ann using for $1,400.

And the lump sum was how much? $1,400. No, no, no, no. The lump sum. Oh, there's no lump sum. It's monthly. There's the only three monthly options. That's all there is. Why?

Where's this coming from? This is from his job from, let's see, from. Is it a pension? It's a pension, yes. Okay. And there's no, does he still work there? No.

He stopped working about five years ago. And he has no ability to take a lump sum withdrawal? I don't think. I haven't asked, so I'm not sure. If he does, that's my preference. And I would roll that to an IRA, a traditional IRA, in good growth stock mutual funds. Okay?

And let me stop a second, then I'll come back to your other three, okay? Okay. But the reason for that is when you die, a pension dies with you or with your spouse if you have survivor benefits. Either one, okay? It dies eventually. If you take a lump sum, and let's say this is $12,000 a year, so let's say that lump sum is $160,000, okay? Probably not that far off. And you put that in a mutual fund, it'll produce more money per month and it survives you that 160,000 is your

money it's sitting in your estate right but if you die it dies and leaves stays in the pension fund correct so that's why i would take a lump sum and roll it to an ira out of a pension if i can do that okay and it sounds like that's probably a possibility they may have not just offered that up but he's he's out of the business he's at retirement age and so it's very unusual you can't take a lump sum but let's say he can't so let's look at the other three options go back over them again for me okay the first one was payable just to him uh without just 1,400 a month the other one was 10 years payable to him and my mom, $1,400 each. But if he dies at 120 months, if you die after 120 months, nobody gets paid. Out of five years is $1,400 to him and my mom also. And then it says if you die after 60 months, no benefits available to your beneficiary.

And there's about five other options with percentages. How old is he? 65. Okay. How's his health? Very good health. It doesn't have. Okay.

Well, the longer he lives, the more the first option makes sense. The shorter he lives let the other two options make less and less sense does that make any sense yes so um i don't know i i'm going to go back to my original i think that's there i'm probably tempted for option two which is twenty eight hundred dollars a month for ten years okay is that right to 1400 if they both live how's your mom's health excellent so if they make it to 75 there's no problems right they just got the money did i understand that right yes yeah and so i'm like i'm what i'm trying to do is always get my money from them as fast as possible as quickly as as much as I can, because if I don't, when I die,

it's gone. Okay. And even if you don't need it all, you roll some of it into investments. True. So do they have other money to live on? Yes, they have Social Security, and she has another pension, and Social Security as well. Okay. So let me end it with this.

You got a radio answer, which can be a wrong answer, because I don't have time to really has another pension and social security as well. Okay. So let me end it with this. You've got a radio answer, which can be a wrong answer, because I don't have time to really crunch numbers with a calculator. I'm doing it in my head. Okay. Okay. But I think I'm about right. The general premise is that I always want to get it away from them as fast as I can, because that way it doesn't die when I do.

Okay. And the tip of the spear on that, the best one, is the lump sum. You follow the concept. So that's what I'm leaning on, and that's why I'm liking the 10-year idea at $1,400 each, $2,800. That seems to make sense for that reason. Now, here's what I want you to do, though. Number one, I want you to check on that lump sum option and see if it's there. Number two, I want you to take all these numbers and dump them on a smart vester of ours, a smart vester pro.

Click smartvester at DaveRamsey.com that does investing. I'm not in that business, but that's who we recommend. It'll drop down a list of people in your area to sit down and talk to. You can choose among those people. Sit down with one of them and say, all right, here's with your mom and dad there, the three of you, and say, all right, let's go over this, get the calculator out, and let's work the math on this, given that we have two healthy 65-year-olds. Okay.

And work it out. But if lump sum is there, you don't have to run the calculator anymore. The decision's done. Take the lump sum. Lump sum, okay. And roll it to a traditional IRA. And SmartVestor Pro can help you do that as well. Pick some good mutual funds.

Drop that. It's probably $150,000 to $200,000 because it's probably calculated on about a 6% rate of return, and most of them are. Sarah is in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm great. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. How can I help? First, I just wanted to say that my husband and I are debt-free except for our house, and we plan on having that paid off by this year. Good. My question, though, pertains to a bonus check that my husband is going to be getting this month from work. How much? About $75,000.

Whoa! Nice! Yay! Nice. What's the balance on your home? About $115,000. Okay, cool. Good. Nice. What's the balance on your home? About $115,000. Okay, cool. Good.

Yep. Now, some of his coworkers are saying that they plan on taking a portion of that money to fully fund the 401k for this year. My question pertains to, is there any benefit to do that versus getting one large check, knowing that he normally maxes out the 401K? Well, last year he did in June, so there's not a whole lot of... He's going to max it out anyway. Right.

He's going to max it out anyway. So he's doing things his coworkers aren't doing. See, they don't put him in their 401K. So they're just dumping this in there. But he's already got his 401K maxed out for the year, or he's got a plan to, not counting this bonus. Did I understand you right? Yes, that's correct. Yeah, you don't have to do anything different.

Just keep doing what you're doing and take your $75,000 and use it on the baby step that you're on and enjoy some of it and give some of it. By the way, you ought to really go do something fun. Well, we plan on it. What are you going to do? Well, we're scuba divers and we've always wanted to go to Belize and that's the plan. World class diving. You ought to do it. Awesome. You ought to do it. I've done about 200 dives and that's a you ought to go do it. Because it sounds like you guys make over 300, do you?

Yes. I smelled it. Because it sounds like you guys make over $300,000, do you? Yes. I smelled it. Okay. Yeah, go enjoy some of this. I mean, take about $10,000 or $20,000 of it and just blow it. Because there's only three things you can do with money. You can enjoy it, you can give it, and you can invest it. And you should always be doing all three.

And I just want to set you free from guilt for enjoying it, because husband works his butt off yes he does yeah absolutely so just enjoy that just go lay on the bottom of the ocean where it's blue and clear and see some beautiful stuff yeah that sounds great hey enjoy it be given some of it and uh then we're gonna throw the rest of it at the house because your own baby step six we need to get this house knocked on out you're already doing your 15 of your income into retirement if you're doing that you got your emergency fund you're debt free we're going to walk right down those baby steps every time you're just right near the edge baby step seven you're almost done you can be done very shortly with the numbers you're giving me so i'm very very well done thanks for calling in. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Now, some

of you can't relate to making $300 plus a year and spending $20,000 on a vacation. I understand. But that doesn't mean she's wrong. Just because you can't get your brain wrapped around that.

As a matter of fact, those ratios are actually really reasonable. It's kind of like somebody making $100,000 a year. They got a huge bonus check and spent $5,000 on a cruise. It's about the same numbers. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Be thinking. Be thinking.

Don't be envious. don't be envious don't be jealous use those people right there as inspiration i want to be her when i grow up this is the dave ramsey show Do you know who is a prime target for identity theft? Your children. Kids have no debts or credit history. Their personal information is just as easy to get, but the theft could go completely undetected for years. Every day all over the country, young adults are starting down their own path in life by opening a bank account or renting their first apartment, only to find out that they somehow already have credit card debt, a mortgage, or even a criminal record.

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions ken and amber are with us hey guys how are you hey dave how are you doing welcome welcome where are you guys from? We're from Bourbon A, Illinois. Which is near... Chicago, about an hour outside. Okay, I thought so. Good, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And all the way down here in the rain to do your debt-free scream.

That's right. Love it. How much have you guys paid off? So we paid off $81,000 in 15 months, Dave. Boom, look at that. And your range of income during that time? We started at about $85,000 and ended at $140,000. Wow, Dave. Boom, look at that. And your range of income during that time? We started at about 85 and ended at 140. Wow, awesome. What do you all do for a living? Well, I teach at a public high school. I teach history. And I'm an IT solution salesman, Dave. Good for you.

Excellent. Well done, guys. So what kind of debt was the $81,000? So we had a little bit of everything, Dave. We had a credit card. We had student loans, cars, you name it. What was the most of it? Most of it was student loans, Dave. Okay, cool, cool. So how long have you two been married?

18, 19 months now. Ah, so that's what started it all. That's right. You get married and come home from the honeymoon and go, uh-oh, we've got to clean this up. That's right. Exactly right. So tell me the story. What happened?

Well, when we were dating and when we got engaged, Ken was very, very much involved in listening to your podcast all the time. Every time we were in the car for more than 20 minutes, he was putting the podcast on. He's a real romantic, isn't he? Yes, yes. And it got to the point where, I mean, you referenced like Dave Ramsey becomes a four-letter word during our engagement and dating period. But when we got married, he bought the Total Money Makeover. And he's like, hey, I really actually want you to read this and get engaged. And sitting and actually reading it for myself got me on board

and then we just tackled it okay in spite of the fact that it ruined all your dates okay so yeah after you read it you kind of went okay i see what all the fuss is about it's worth doing this it'd be a great goal for us right here after getting married to tear into this and it was a great goal congratulations very well done okay so ken um other than the fact that you overdid the dave ramsey thing how did you how did you get her to do this so we really just sat down and talked about well why do we want to do this i did go about it the wrong way by just saying we need to do this we need to do this but instead i said well why dear why should we do this and this is why i want to do this. But instead I said, well, why dear, why should we do this? And this is why I want to do it. And I listened to her, her why as well today. Okay. So what was your why Amber? Um, for me, I want to have the opportunity whenever God blesses us with children to be able

to stay at home with them and not have to worry about money in that respect. So that's about as good a one as I can think of. Yeah. That's a good why. Yeah. Very good. And so, all right, now we sit down and we do a budget and it's game on. That's a good why. Yeah, very good. And so, all right, now we sit down, we do a budget, and it's game on. That's right, Dave. How hard was that? You know, that first conversation was like, does Amber really want to do this? It's kind of just me staring at it. But as we kept going along, she actually started to be the one really driving the thing, Dave.

Uh-oh. You created a monster then. That's right. All right. Okay, cool. a thing dave uh-oh you created a monster then that's right all right okay cool so what do you tell people when people find out you've only been married 18 months and during that time you paid off eighty one thousand dollars worth of debt they always ask you how'd you do that what do you tell them the secret is i would say we usually encourage people and we've taught a couple of fpu

classes with our church at this point with some young couples. Wow, thank you. Oh, no problem. Thank you. We just encourage them to communicate, and that's really the biggest thing is being on a team and coming up with your whys together. And like I said, communication. It taught us a lot about each other and helped us in our marriage early on, not just talking about money, but talking about everything.

So it was a huge blessing. When you start talking about your why, you're really talking about what your dreams for your whole life is. And, you know, money is one of the ways you get there. And so, because you're going to need some, usually, to get to most of those dreams. Because most things, either they cost money or you're giving up some money for the thing, whatever it is, you know, either way. So good, good for you guys.

So communication is huge. What else? So the budget was also really huge, Dave, by actually sitting down and looking at it. At first, we were like, are we really able to do this? But then finally diving into the budget and being able to talk with other people about, hey, once you get your numbers together and actually look at it, it really isn't as bad as you may have anticipated. Yeah, the monster in the closet is a bigger monster than the one in the middle of the kitchen table. That's right. He shrinks when you get him out of the closet and look at the details.

Yeah, because it's the worry and all that stuff around it. It takes the drama out of it when you just write it all out. So what happened to your income from $85,000 in 15 months well yeah dave i mean i'm a salesman um you can obviously see my wife you can see i'm a pretty good salesman at that so that's where things came from so you just got after it that's right it's game all that's right dave yeah good good for you well done you're obviously a good salesman uh two or three sets of proof for that yeah good very well done well we've got a copy of chris hogan's book for you retire inspired we want that to be the next chapter in your story that you're not only debt free but now

you become millionaires and outrageously generous along the way okay that's right on the way love it love it congratulations you guys very proud of you very proud of you. Thank you, Dave. Very proud of you. All right, Ken and Amber, Chicago, Illinois, $81,000 paid off in 15 months, making $85,000 to $140,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free!

Love it, love it! Way to go, you guys! Woo-hoo! That's awesome right there. I love it. Heather is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Heather. How are you?

I'm great, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, my husband and I have been married for almost six years now. We've been together for six years, going on seven. And he came into the relationship with a mortgage with his ex-fiance. And through a turn of events, she now lives in that house,

and he signed a quick claim deed to get off of the legal end. Well, it's still on his credit. He's still liable for the mortgage. Yes, he's still liable for the mortgage. And so we just recently started implementing your plan, and that's one of the hurdles that is on his part of the credit. So we're wondering how he can get off of the mortgage. So he bought a house with a fiancée. They were never even married.

No, they were not. And then he quit claims it to her. Yes. Gave up the asset and kept the liability. Dumb. All right. Because he lost all leverage. So there's no agreement here anywhere other than he just tossed her the keys and walked away.

Yes. And stayed on the mortgage. All right. So do you know anything about the mortgage? I know that it's through Chase Bank. Do you know the interest rate? loan do you know the interest rate uh i do not know the interest rate um he probably there's probably still 50 to 60 thousand dollars left on it to pay but i don't know the interest rate or anything like that

okay and she's obviously just going to camp there forever yes and, and she's still paying the mortgage. We're not... You just have what's called a contingent liability, meaning that if she doesn't pay it, you're going to get stuck with the bad credit and a potential foreclosure. Yeah. Alright, and what's Cheryl's household

income? Right now, it's just $21,000. I'm about to go back to work um i we i was taking care of helping take care of so what will your household income be um i would say probably 30 or 35 000 so you make 10 000 bucks total well it's just um part-time um i don't i'll be making how much debt have you got not counting this fiancee house oh my goodness um there's probably i'm i don't i haven't figured it up exactly but it's probably 90 000 in, the majority of that student loans. Yeah.

And not making any money as a result of that education. Wow. Okay, I would worry about that debt before I worry about this mortgage. If you can get out of it when you're out of debt, and the only thing left standing is that mortgage, and she still hasn't paid it off or refinanced it at that point, I might offer to pay her refinance cost in order to get her to refinance it into her own name and maybe at a better interest rate or something. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us.

Jordan's with us in Iowa. Hi, Jordan. How are you? Hi, Dave. Good. with us in Iowa. Hi, Jordan. How are you? Hi, Dave. Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Thanks for taking my call. I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I have a degree in business marketing. I came out just for college, which is a blessing. My husband, we put him through law school, so you can imagine that was a lot of student debt loan so my question is would it be silly for me to go back to school for nursing which i've always wanted to do when i can contribute now with my degree in business okay um have you gotten a husband student loans paid off no how much are they 175 000 and your household income is what um 60 000 your household

income is 60 000 and he's an attorney yeah just started okay and what do you make i'm a stay-at-home mom and so that's kind of what my dilemma is, is, you know, we're now, we just started your whole program, and so we are starting, we're on phase step two, obviously, with the student debt loan, but now I'm kind of deciding, you know, now that we talked about me going back to school or getting a job, the job was obviously the first conversation, and then I decided maybe I'll go back to school because I really have always wanted to do nursing. But that just now kind of seems silly when we are going to be in Babes Step 2 for that long. Mm-hmm.

Were you in the workplace before? Nope. I had a college. We got married and had our kids, and so I've just been staying at home since then while he was in school, yeah. Right, and you have a degree in marketing and business, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right.

So really, your goal was to stay at home. What was your career goal? Well, we got pregnant in college, so, you know, it was a surprise. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying you have done what you wanted to do. What you wanted to do was stay home, and the only reason this discussion is coming along is money. Yes.

Yeah. So, in other words, let's say his student loans were all paid off and he was making $150,000 a year. You wouldn't be a nurse. You'd be at home. Well, I think I would go back to school at that point. So I think that's when I have to decide. So your goal is not to be at home.

If he was making a ton of money, you wouldn't be at home. I think I would want to be a nurse. You can work part-time or full-time, and I do like getting out of the house. So I feel like I would still to be a nurse. You can work, you know, part-time or full-time, and I do like getting out of the house. So I feel like I would still want to do that. Okay. All right. Hmm.

It's interesting that that has come up now and not a year ago. I know. It's been crazy. You know, I probably would tap the brakes on that. If you're going to go into the marketplace right now, I would just go get you a good marketing position, making $40,000, $50,000, or whatever you can make doing that, and then let's get his income up as fast as possible and clean up his mess.

And then once that is cleaned up and the kids are a little bit older and you can cash flow and pay cash for nursing school that's probably well that's the thing is i can cash flow nursing school and so it's just debating whether or not i want to cash flow our extra money you have 175 000 in student loan debt yes so the money you're spending on nursing school is not going to that. Exactly. Out of $60,000 household income. So not only are you not bringing in an income,

you're taking some of the income that would have been going towards the debt. So this is a double negative. Okay. So for now, I mean, I don't mind. You can do whatever you want to do, but you're just, you're piling on. You're creating a bigger problem mathematically than solving any problems. That's what I'm trying to figure out. I think I'm, like, I don't want to create more debt.

Well, you're spending money and not making money. Yes. That's what I mean by a double negative. It's a two-punch, one-two, right? And so, again, I'm not saying never go back and be a nurse. I'm saying we should get some headway towards this, get his income doubled, and get your income to 50, and then we can clean this 175 up over the next couple, three, four years. Then go get your nursing with cash flow once you're debt-free, and then that puts you in a position to do that.

So if you're willing to go into the marketplace, meaning go get a job, that's probably the direction I would go. And if you're willing to go get your nursing degree today and be away from the kids, then you're willing to go get a job. And that's what I would do in this situation. Again, it's a temporary move to clean up the mess because you've got a big mess there. Carlita's with us in Baton Rouge. Hi, Carlita.

How are you? I'm well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I'm calling because I've actually just read your book, Complete Guide to Money, and we have whole life policies. I'm sorry. I know.

And based on your book, I know you're sorry. And we have a lot of debt. All right? If we catch out the whole life policies at this point, we're probably getting, I'm looking at the policies now, about $25,000 to put towards $68,000 of debt. And I'm thinking, is that the right thing to do? Because this is a 20-year policy. That's my dilemma here. It's been for 20 years.

Does that make a difference? I know you said get rid of it, but we've had it for 20 years. Of course, over the 20 years, it was a $20,000, my husband and mine. It has sucked. It's sucked for 20 years. It's going to suck for the next 20 years. And no matter what my agents say when I meet with him, I'm setting up that appointment. You don't need to have an appointment with your agent. You just call the company and cancel the policy.

Okay. That's exactly what I was thinking based on all that I've read, based on all that I've heard. But I just wanted to be sure that even with that 20 years in... Do you understand what I'm saying, though? I understand. If it's been bad for 20 years and it's going to be bad for 20 more years, the fact that you've lost money for 20 years doesn't make the next 20 years any better. It doesn't make that just because I'm in there, have been in there for a long period,

it's going to be good because I... I mean, you've been getting ripped off for a long period of time, and now are you going to keep getting ripped off? That's what we're asking. I don't want to keep getting ripped off. Yeah, that's what I'm asking. I mean, you've been getting screwed for 20 years, and you're just going to stay in that line. Don't get out of that line.

It's not working for you. Get you some term insurance in place on both of you. Get that money out of there, and let's use it towards the 68 and start working towards getting out of debt as fast as possible. That's what I would do. Vanessa's in Champaign, Illinois. Hi, Vanessa. How are you?

I'm good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? So I have an auto loan with Santander, and they continue to tell me the balance is going up and I'm trying to pay it off aggressively and I'm just wondering if there's any way at this point it's completely upside down um if is there any way we can like argue with them to get the balance down because

at this point mostly it's just fees and interest and you know it, they're bugging me like three times a week. And I made my payment that we set up. So I'm just wondering if there's any way to. You have a payment you set up. You were behind? Yeah. So we're making the payment that, you know, we owe to them. And then they call us and say, oh would owe another 150 dollars okay wait a minute

you took out a car loan were you behind on the car loan at one point yes but then are you current now yeah then why would they call you and want more money if you were paying your monthly payment on time that's what i'm trying to figure out and every time i try to call them and get like that's not logical or so what can i do to wait a minute there's a whole bunch of stupid and crooked people out there but i've never heard of a car company when you were paying your car payments on time calling you and that bugging you for more money. There's something screwy in your story. It doesn't make sense. Are you behind?

Is it a repossession? So, at one point, I was repossessed, and they said that they charged off the account, but then they're still collecting the payment. They didn't come get the car, though. And, I mean, that was years ago. This is like a five- or six-year-old loan. Is this some kind of high- rate ripoff loan because you had horrible credit?

Yes. Okay, that's why you're getting screwed around. All right, you got subprime idiots. Okay. I couldn't figure out what was going on. It's just weird. Yeah, what you do is just start hitting it as fast and hard. It's only 5,000 bucks, 1,000 bucks a month.

Go get extra drop delivered pizzas. Knock it out. Fast. And get these morons out of your life. And stay off of lots like that, man. These people will kill you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to the Dave Ramsey Show

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