The Ramsey Show - App - Become The Director Of Your Life (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks, a very popular podcast on relationships, boundaries, mental health, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. So Sunday, bloody Sunday, the student loans have started back, John.

Yesterday, for those of you listening on a Monday, October the 2nd, the student loan payments have restarted. The interest started the September the 1st. Payments restart October the 1st. There have been three reactions that we're reading about. Oh, crap, I'm up a creek, which is the proper reaction. Actually, the proper reaction would have been to pay them off during the time that you had no interest. But of the people that still have student loans, oh, crap, I'm up a creek.

I'm going to remain in denial because I really think the government is going to pay these off. Or I refuse to pay them. I'm in rebellion. That's a new one I've started hearing. Yeah, this is unfair. The whole thing's unfair. And I am rebelling against the government. And I'm not going to repay them.

Which is the most humorous of the three as far as I'm concerned. Because you understand that they have your social security number and you understand that all of your tax returns are going to go to them and you understand that they know where you live and you understand that the government has almost unlimited power they can garnish your wages without even taking you to court on your student loans they don't even have to go through due process i'm not sure that's constitutional but they will garnish you your butt hey without even asking you or the courts i remember during uh covid i got your rebellion i got my beer i got the master i mean the the

mystery check deposited in my account and i remember thinking uh-oh if they can put money just in my account they could just take it out of my account. Yeah, there's a novel idea, baby. Yep, they're coming for you. You got to pay your bills, man. You got to pay your bills. As our friend Les Parrott says, ignoring something like this has a high rate of resurrection. Correct.

So this stuff comes back to haunt your butt. That's what happens. So we did send Dr. John Deloney with me, Dr. Ken Coleman, who's not a doctor, and Dr. Jade Warshaw, who's not a doctor, to Washington, D.C. to hang out and talk to people there in the area where this all occurred, where the disaster originated, called D. That's where the student loan disaster originated. And they've been hanging out with both students and grown humans and even a congressman or two talking to them over the last 24 hours. Hey, guys, welcome. Hey, thanks for having us out here, Dave. This has been great. So what's the word on the street? I think I want to add a fourth narrative that we're hearing here, which is there's a problem. We've made our bed. Now we've got to lay in it. And not only that, but what can we learn from it going forward? And, you know, Ken and I have talked to a lot. We talked to a couple of moms yesterday who had kids that took out student loans and their their degrees did not ROI the way they thought they would. And so now the conversation is honestly starting to shift towards what are we going to do going forward to make sure that more students don't

end up in this situation, to end up, you know, to where we can fix this for good, even if the government doesn't do their part, right? Yeah, we've got to be talking to the American people, and we are at Ramsey Solutions, about avoidance. You know, there's a cultural message, Jade, Dave, and John, you guys all know this so well, that's been going on since the 70s, that said that a college degree was the best way to success, in some ways almost guaranteeing success. And the reality is we know that it's about hard work and great effort, tremendous attitude that helps you get ahead in your professional life. And so now we've got to be able to ask ourselves, is a college degree necessary? Certainly if you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer, that's got to be the path. But as we see in today's world, you can have a

wonderful career in technology without ever darkening the door of a college. So there's two questions that we teach the American people. Is college, a degree, the only way to do that work that you want to do? Or is it the best way, meaning giving you a clear advantage? And if that's the case, then do it. But if not, here's the great news. And we know this, Jade, there are a whole lot less affordable ways to get there and a whole lot less time consuming. So that's part of it. We at Ramsey Solutions, Dave and John, we want to keep people from falling in the river. So let's stop that from happening. And that's really a big part of the student loan crisis. And not only that, Ken, but I think what we're doing here on the ground, which is really pulling back the veil and telling people a story,

real people, not just us, you know, sitting in the studio, having commentary about it, but talking to real people. I got to talk to a woman off the record yesterday, and she was probably, I'm going to guess, in her 60s. She started with $12,000 of student loans coming out of college, and over the last 20, 25 years, that has grown to $100,000 because she's just continued to take whatever plan the government would offer her to have the lowest payment possible. And I think that that's really a picture of what's taking place now. Obviously, again, the government is offering these plans and students are going, yes, this is great.

Maybe 20, 25, even 30 years down the line, I'll have forgiveness. But the young lady or I should say the mother that I talked to yesterday was a picture of how that may not be the case and how such a small balance can really grow into something that's quite overwhelming. Dealing with this up front, John, is absolutely mandatory. Just taking it head on. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned it. It's what Dr. Parrott says. This stuff will circle back around on you and you can wait and you can wait and you can wait and you will end up paying what we like to call a soul tax you're not going to sleep your body would be failing you if it let you sleep your body would be failing you if it let you have great deep intimate close relationships

while it is terrified that the next shoe is going to drop and so you're choosing 25 30 35 years of having a life without peace in it for $12,000. That would have been a hard year. A hard year. That's right, John. You knock them out. And something I want to add to that, John, is we're seeing that. Yesterday when I talked to Ariel, a lot of people are taking these plans thinking, well, there's forgiveness.

It says in the fine print that the interest that is accrued will be forgiven. So a lot of folks are thinking if it's going to be forgiven, I probably won't even see it accrue. But we're finding that, no, you will see that interest accrue. And, John, to your point, what that does emotionally to see your bill go up by thousands of dollars every month, every year, that's got to weigh incredibly heavy. And for that reason alone, you should go ahead and knock out these student loans, not keep them around in your life, right, Ken, as a pet for the next 20, 30 years. But hey, here's an important thing. I think that all of us just kind of had the veil ripped off our eyes over the last several years. If the government called and said, hey, I got a plan

for you. I know you're over your head. Here's a plan. My instant default setting, and Dave, you might roll your eyes at this and call me naive, but my default would have been to trust. Not mine. I think we all have to realize the government does not have our best interest at heart. It has their best interest at heart. This is a money-making scheme for them, and it keeps people wrapped up for decade after decade after decade. Pay these things off. Get them out of your life once and for all, and you become the director of your life. Jane and Ken, good work there in D.C. on the street. We'll see you when you get home. God bless. Safe travels. This is, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. By the way, guys, our award-winning documentary, Borrowed Future, about the absurdity of the entire student loan epic failure, is available for free on YouTube.

You can watch it other places and pay for it but it's free on youtube so go go there and check it you can also probably check it out on ramsey solutions i imagine we've got it on the website but uh either way borrowed future uh oddly enough um dr john deloney is one of the guests on the documentary back when he was in higher ed we interviewed him before he was a ramsey personality so that that's um you you didn't know that was your interview for the new position i did not know i was i was it was a job interview you'll have a uncanny way of interviewing you without you knowing but i do think it's without applying i do think it's important to note um i mean when we look at what's happening today y'all called this back in 2019 when you made the documentary.

Y'all called it. We see the train coming, and it's going to hit us, and it's on its way. Yep, for sure. Kenzie is with us in Tacoma, Washington. Hi, Kenzie. How are you? Hi. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can we help? So, okay. So I've been, my husband and I have been on your plan off and on, but we are, we've paid off all our debt at one point and then I was stupid, got back into it. But we're like scorched earth, you know, really, really on this plan to get out of debt. And one of the driving forces is we want to cash flow our kids' college. Well, and this is like the perfect day listening to all of these kids having or adults having to pay for college again, all their stuff. Anyways, I have told my kids I have a 21, 19, and a 17-year-old girls.

And I've told them since they were in middle school, we will pay for college, but you have to live at home. And you have to go to a school that we approve of. You have to have good grades, but we will cash flow your school. We're not doing that. We have been very transparent about the struggle we've had with debt, the sleep that we lost, everything like that. I did the same thing, except the live at home part. Why do you add that? You have to live at home.

Because if you, I don't pay for other people's rent. So where I live, there are so many colleges within 20 minutes of our home that there is no reason for you to not live at home. Okay, so it's your money and those are your rules. What's your question? So my daughter refuses to stay home and go to school. She wants to go to a state school, but she wants to go to WSU, which is over in Pullman, which is six hours away. And they require you to live on campus. And you have to have the food program, which is about $2,500 to $4,000 a year. So she's opting out. Hold on. She's up. This is very simple. She's opting out of your she's up this is very simple she's opting out of your out of your rule she opted out yes yes and it's just it's very difficult for me it absolutely and i've dealt with um my entire career has been spent sitting with parents

and you drew a hard hard line a very hard line and you say clear line very clear line this is the way this is going to be and she said cool i'm going that way and so the other side of a very clear very firm hard line is other people can say well then i don't want anything to do with that boundary and but that doesn't obligate you to pay no it doesn't mean she gets none of your money right no i like i said i would help with some groceries no no no no she gets none of your money that's the rule you set up none of your money yes no she opted out but it's like that it kills me when you see your kid running into it's really it's really heartbreaking to watch people you love do stupid butt things but you don't get to vote anymore once they're adults and the same as

if your parents started spending their money and they were in their 80s and it's heartbreaking um because they keep sending money overseas to somebody who cares about what i mean or your best friend buys a hundred thousand dollars worth of crypto because he's an idiot i mean you can't stop him from doing the hardest things is is when you love somebody they're doing doing hard things that you know are not going to be good for them. And so also if she signs up for all of these loans and things because she has nothing saved, she's not doing scholarships. She has to pay them back. She's making a choice.

No, you're not liable. You're not liable. Don't sign anything. I refuse to participate in your insanity. I love you too much to buy your cocaine. You're an addict. Okay. She opted out.

She opted out. See, she thinks, this is the reason we're being so strong on this. I know what she thinks. She thinks you're going to give her money anyway. And I can't. I have two other girls that. Doesn't she? Does she think that?

She does think that, but I have to hold true because my oldest moved out, so we stopped school. Our middle one is staying home. We're paying for school. So we have to stay true to what we've said. It's unfair to the other two for you to not have integrity. Correct. Zero help. Now, listen, the one thing I have learned, and I think it's the hardest stage of parenting,

is being a parent to people who are grown up. Because they're allowed to vote now. I can't tell them what to do anymore. I can't use my dad voice. It no longer works. I can only use it on the radio on a listener, but I can't use it on my kids. But that doesn't even work there, actually. But, you know, I can't use my dad voice anymore.

Not even the dog listens to my dad voice anymore. It's just gone. I lost my dad voice. It goes, you know, I have to use persuasion with everyone now. And so my grown kids get the exact same approach when i disagree with them that one of my good friends would get i either just stand back and watch and hold my nose or i sit down beside them and i go you know i love you and i've got some ideas here of some dumb things i've done in the past and it kind of looks like some of the stuff you're thinking about doing.

Would you like some advice from an older, wiser friend? If you say no, then I have to shut up. But if you say yes, I'll give it to you. And you have to go at it, you know, like I've got a friend, you know, I've got friends my age who have grown kids that are in their 30s and 40s. One of them called us the other day and said, hey, we have raised three great kids can we take you to dinner we want to ask you how to do that so i have to use the but what i told them was persuasion i didn't get to tell them what to do right they ask and i get to tell them what i thought and uh but that's how you get

that's how john persuades me or i persuade john John. Same thing. That's all you can do. But you might want to try that, because I got a feeling in your frustration you've used your mom voice. Oh, absolutely. And your kid's called your bluff, right? Yes. Yeah, and I've been working really hard on not talking at them, but talking with them. Did you say this is three girls? I have three girls, yes.

Where's dad in this conversation so he is he's he backs me up we're in a different like we're almost out of our debt and so he's like he's kind of weighing like okay maybe we we do this and i said no we have to hold we have to hold that's that's what i mean yeah that's exactly what i mean so i want him to come around front of this instead of you yeah and i want him to take his daughter to coffee and say baby doll i love you and i as somebody who loves you not as your dad i think you're making a mistake here and i want you to rethink it and i also want to i want to challenge you on something too not on this particular one but

I'm challenging the the bedrock that you've anchored into one of the greatest gifts a parent can give their kids sometimes is to say the words I went about this the wrong way not not the thing is wrong but I went about it the wrong way I don't think this is wise it like I want to take you to coffee and say hey let me walk you through why I'm making this choice. Because I'll tell you this, everybody can disagree with me. That's fine. But after working in colleges for 20 years, four different ones across a couple of states and consulting in a gajillion more, if my kids decide to go to college, one of my rules is you have to live on campus because I want them to experience a bunch of different people and learn about how other

people do life. That's different. That's a different philosophy. But here's the deal. Your kid is going to say, I'm going to go for this one then. So you set a set of rules. Great. Either live and die by it.

I want dad to spend some time talking about why. Well, yeah. Why? I actually want mom and dad to sit down and say, do we actually both believe this? Okay. And then why? Because it sounds like mom made a line and dad's just going along with it. But why?

But why is right. Stick with it. That's right. You've got to talk to a teenager. You've got to talk to a grown child as a grown sibling. A grown child is what it is. Oxymoron. As an equal.

And talk about why. Here's why I believe this. Here's why I'm trying to talk you into it. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. On the debt-free stage, Eric and Madison are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

Good. How are you? Doing well. Thank you. Welcome. Welcome. Where do you all live? Dayton, Ohio Ohio. Oh good, good to have you in Nashville. How much debt have you paid off? $66,026. Good, how long did this take? Two and a half years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $90,000 to $105,000. Very good. What do y'all do for a

living? I'm a teacher. And I'm a warehouse operations manager. Okay, very good what do y'all do for a living i'm a teacher and i'm a warehouse operations manager okay very good 66 in two years y'all are cooking yes way to go what kind of debt was that uh normal credit cards car loans student loans oh wow nine credit cards to be specific okay so 33 000 bucks a year basically or 30 000 a year roughly a little more than that a little more than that but we'll get there. Okay. All right. So what started all this two and a half years ago? Well, I was in a hospital bed with some complications from COVID,

and the entire time I'm laying there, I'm thinking, how am I going to pay for this? Because her credit cards are maxed out. This was before we were even married. Her credit cards are maxed out. I'm laying there not knowing how we're going to pay for it, and we get to, you know, we get the bill and it was only like $300, but we couldn't cover it. So I had to ask my parents for help to cover a $300 medical bill. And then I thought back to a high school class I took where the teacher was giving us a lesson about your program and showed us a video of it. And 16 old eric was like yeah i'm not

going to listen to a guy who went bankrupt i want to pay attention to that guy and my memory after that hospital visit came back to that and i looked you up and found a couple videos and launched from there and then i took a home to maddie and she was a little uh reserved at first but eventually i managed to drag her along and get her going yeah i mean like who wants to listen to guys about bankruptcy really i mean come on right eric so how long y'all been married coming up on two years okay all right so you started this right before you got married finished it up after you're married yeah well done good good who is the person in your relationship who loved them some credit cards oh yeah that's usually when you have nine somebody has a relationship with them tell me about them yeah so I am a

teacher and I taught in inner city in Cincinnati right out of college and you don't make a paycheck for six weeks which no one told me oh there's a nice piece of information for sure for sure so I moved to Cincinnati had rent didn't have money needed groceries didn't have money someone ran into me had to get a car didn't have money um so one thing led to another um my dad was like i already helped you through college i'm not giving you any more money um and so you know a few credit cards later um there i was yeah okay and and then along comes eric and watch this guy in high school yes yeah and and by the way he was laying in the hospital bed during covid doing nothing

and but he's got a lot of opinions but but he had his all right what i'm doing is not working maybe somebody else has a plan yeah and we definitely um he dragged me for a little bit because I mean, I was, I was a little deep. And by the time we, you know, started doing it and working through it. And by the time we were married, we cash flowed our wedding and our honeymoon. And we cash flowed the birth of George. And then also he had a NICU stay. So we were able to cash flow all of that. Wow.

So in addition to our debt that we paid off we also cash flowed a wedding a Disney honeymoon and also a NICU stay so so it was a grand total of 93,000 okay oh my gosh yeah there's a lot going on there you guys have been very diligent then real tight budget to make all that happen in that period of time yeah a lot of no's a lot of no's mostly mostly from me it's the ancient word so the yeah so so you guys decided to plug back in or you decided after high school plug back into us where did you find us how'd you get back plugged in uh i just looked you up on youtube oh youtube okay yep all right that'll do it absolutely so when you didn't want to be dragged kicking and screaming but here we were was it the shame that i've got nine credit cards and a lot of this debt's mine or was it

yolo like i want to i want to do what i want to do um it was definitely part of the shame um it was definitely that like it was the norm in my dad's side of the family to have cards and um several of them um i grew up um not in the most traditional way because my parents were separated. So I lived two different ways. So, you know, it was one of those things where I was like, okay, what they did didn't work. And how can we make sure that our family is set up for success? That's such a magical transition when you can say, hey, okay, this path that I want to take hasn't worked. Maybe there's got to be another one, right? Yes, for sure.

And what was your most challenging marital moment? Currently? Currently. We don't actually live together right now. We are kind of like married people that are dating, which everyone looks at us like we're crazy. Our lease was up this summer and we thought we'd buy a house. We tried,

had a ton wrong with it. So we backed out before we got too far in. And we have all of our stuff at his parents and at my grandmother's. During the week, I live in Kettering with my grandmother and my mom watches our son. And then I commute to work about half an hour and then during the week Eric works two jobs and lives with his parents and then on the weekends we reconvene at his parents house and then come Sunday night we do it all over again wow when does this end um hopefully May okay wow that's the hope because we're wanting a house and the market is insane and what we have right now just isn't going to warrant us a home that um is going to be what we want to raise our children in so you're working

in two different cities um we actually work we've worked about 10 minutes away from each other okay but she's living 45 minutes away yeah at her grandma. Yeah. So it's definitely something that people look at us like we're crazy. But it's a lot of cash. It's a lot of money that we're saving between not having rent, Eric working multiple jobs. I'm a teacher. I've been a tutor. I've been a nanny. I've been a babysitter.

I've coached. I've done all of it. And so it was kind of Eric's turn to have a second job because I've always had two or three. Okay, that works. It's not the best statement. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Do it. Following the budget and making sure that everything's mapped out.

We sit down and look at our whole calendar to map out the events that we have. George turns one this October. So we had to budget for him to have a party and things like that that I think people let them sneak up on them. And we've had a fund for his birthday since the first of the year. So we have money ready for us. There we go. Good stuff, you guys. Proud of y'all.

Congratulations. Very well done. Who was cheering you along? Mostly her mom, Jane. She's with the baby somewhere around here. She was cheering us along the entire time time my parents as well were supportive they my family doesn't really fully understand it but we'll we'll give them an update and they're very supportive of it okay cool all right and you want george in the debt-free screen oh for sure he's gonna join us how old

is george he will be one in october oh yeah way to go little debt-free dude well done and he's happy about it too i like it oh yeah hey we've got the baby steps millionaires book for you total money make over book and the financial peace membership that's the live and give box y'all live some of it give some of it george is ready man i like it eric and madison and george Dayton, Ohio, 66,000. Really, about 90,000 paid off in cash flow. It included two and a half years, making 90 to 105. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! I love it. We're just like, what happened? Oh, that's fun. His family tree has changed. His mom and dad got weird. They got weird. They decided they weren't going to be normal.

That face was worth the price of admission right there. That was fantastic. Fabulous. There's something about, they mentioned it a couple of times. If I can't convince you on the merits of an idea, if I can't convince you on the math, if I can't convince you on the values, if you're laying in a hospital bed

and you can't come up with 300 bucks, can you at least say, okay, this isn't working? What you're trying is not working. Would you try something else? Yeah. So many couples like, I'm not doing that. I don't do it. Okay.

Is this working? Can we just ask that question? I think if more people ask that question, they would humble themselves and go, okay, I need to try something else. That's good. Dr. Phil moment. How's that working for you? How's that working for you? That's right. This is the Ramsey Chef. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 3740, and the Lord shall help them and deliver them. He shall deliver them from the wicked and save them because they trust in him. Ronald Reagan said, The most terrifying words in the English language are,

I'm from the government and I'm here to help. I think we're referencing the old Joe Biden debt forgiveness program here that the Supreme Court said he's not allowed to do, which he's a lawyer. He already knew that. It has to be an act of Congress. You don't get to control spending when you're the president. It has to go through Congress. That's how that works.

Sorry about that. The Supreme Court caught up, and now you guys have to pay your payment. Ouch. But we're here to help you in any way we can. That's what we're doing. Tomorrow, in the next few hours, actually, the sale will end. The pre-sale will end on John Deloney's brand-new book because it comes out tomorrow. For those of you listening live, you know that this is October the 2nd and October 3rd's launch day.

So that's Monday or Tuesday, right? So Monday, if you go by midnight tonight to RamseySolutions.com, you can still get Building a Non-Anxious Life for $20 and get the e-book, the audio book, and his talk instantly, Smoke, Fire, and Freedom. All of them will come to you tomorrow. Well, we'll ship them tomorrow. Anyway, they'll start getting the stuff by email and the links and the down links and so forth until then. So, hey, check it out. It is the time to get this book.

It is the last chance for you to get it with all of the assets. And, John, we've kind of been talking throughout the three-hour program today about the student loans restarting and the anxiety around that. But there is a whole lot of different categories of anxiety that are just running rampant in our culture today. And I guess it's the different sources of the anxiety well there's different sources right that could be work related um it could be relationship related it could be finance related it can be any number of things calendar related stuff related um but i think much of that difference has more to do with how you were raised the stories you were told growing up, your genetics. I think there's a cocktail there.

So the way I like to explain it is if you and I have a house with a basement in it and your basement is full of motorcycle repair gear. And in my basement, it's full of a candle making shop and i make candles a fire might send your house to explode and a fire might burn mine to the ground and um it would just melt gently right the same fire would cause two different reactions in our houses based on you know our genetics the based on what the way we're raised the tools we have in our toolkit to deal with it and so some people may struggle with social anxiety some people may struggle with social anxiety. Some people may struggle just, they just feel anxious all the time. Some people might gear up and want to fight everybody and some people want to withdraw. And so I think one of the challenges is we've created

this diagnostic culture that wants to label all those individual things. I just want to look at the fire, right? Let's deal with the fire. And it is important for researchers to dig into those basements and figure that stuff out. But I, most of us need on a regular basis to deal with the fire part of that equation and all of us can deal with the fire part so george and i had a caller that said um i can't i have to deal with all the money issues because my husband has anxiety false and um i told her uh, you need to correct me, you can do it in front of everybody, but I told her that him not being involved

and taking control proactively with her of the whole situation was increasing his anxiety. 100% that if he gets anxious around money, for some reason, and we could pull it apart for a couple of years, his body has put a GPS pin in money and it sets off his alarm system. And every time he avoids it, every time she takes it from him, his body actually wins. It got what it wanted, which was not to be around that threat. So it reinforces that thing and makes it stronger. And if he tries

to lean in on his own, it will ring louder and louder and louder and louder. And so the challenge with anxiety is the only way to heal from it is through it. You got to go through it. You got to deal with it. And when you sit down with a therapist to get over something you're anxious about, that's one of the most tried and true things you can heal from. It's exposure therapy. If you're going through hell, keep going. Yeah, it's exposure therapy. They're going to walk you through it step by step until your body quits reacting to it and then you got to deal with the actual issues but yeah you're right every time she takes it from him um his body goes ah well my case was and i don't know if this was correct but

my case to her was ambivalence is more stress inducing than knowledge of an actual boogeyman's details it could be it could be but what i don't want her to do is to run and be like you got to do is ambivalence is more stress-inducing than knowledge of an actual boogeyman's details. It could be. It could be. But what I don't want her to do is to run and be like, you've got to do the budget now. I'm out. Oh, no, no, no.

I didn't do that. No, no, no. It is. She's got – no, no, I'm not saying – I don't want that to be her response. No, I didn't, yeah. Because people – here's the deal. Anxiety is real, man, and I got buried by it. It's powerful, and often it's when they – I don't want people to walk away.

What I'm saying is, oh, it's just an alarm. Just get over it. Just go through it's when they i don't want people to walk away what i'm saying is oh it's just an alarm just get over just go through it that's not how that works um sometimes you got to get somebody to hold your hand and walk through it sometimes you got to get a team of people and say i got your front and i got your back and i get your sides let's go do this thing and but you've got to make your way through it but the fact that the in their case the uh the financial problems are stacking up they're're getting worse. And there's no light at the end of the tunnel. That's not an oncoming train. He's got to know that down in his soul, just walking into the house.

His amygdala knows that that home's not safe. Their finances aren't safe. He can smell it in the air. And I promise you that that level of challenge going on, there's something else going on in their relationship. There's something else on the foundation of that home that is causing it to lean over. Well, he's working on the oil field. He's just going to work getting a check, going to work getting a check,

going to work getting a check. Just a good old boy. Yeah. And working his butt off. Absolutely. Probably a great guy. Yeah. But she's carrying all the emotional weight and strain of the household.

Yes. And the lie that a guy like that's told is emotions are for her. You were made for shoveling. Y'all get out. And both of you have to shoulder both of those loads. And we're finding out now, okay, I don't have a toolkit for sitting with my wife's emotions and feelings. I don't have a toolkit for saying what I feel out loud. I need to learn that.

She maybe doesn't have a toolkit for this level of work he's putting in. She's going to have to learn that. So that's the work they've got to do. Yeah. But someone told him along the way, if he just says, I've got anxiety, I can't look at it, then that gets him out of it. And it probably has gotten him out of everything growing up because we have a culture that says, if you have a thing, we're going to give you a pass.

We're going to make the path easier for you. We're going to clear the deck for you. We're going to go into the weight room, take all the weight off the bar, and that will keep your muscles from hurting. And that actually works. It does. But nobody nobody gets any stronger you never find out what you could do you never find out how far you could take this thing how deep your relationships could be how healthy and well and whole you and grandkids you'll never meet could be because we cleared the path so far for each other yeah we got to change the way we address some of these problems in our culture well i got on my hand um hands are just messing with it i've got calluses from cutting

trees and fooling with stuff this weekend that really an old man shouldn't be doing but i did it anyway had a lot of fun with it chainsaws are fun and so uh uh but that comes from the stress yeah of the physical stress in that case of holding that thing while it's vibrating, going through it. And when you first hold it and you hit into that tree and you get that first kickback, it hurts and your body says, hey, let's put this down. But if you keep going, you keep going, you keep going. It's a tremendous sense of satisfaction. You get stronger. You solve a problem.

You get the calluses. And then the next time you pick that sucker up. But it's a toughening. Yeah, it is. It's what it is. It's fire. It's a refining process. Iron sharp the next time you pick that sucker up. It's a toughening. Yeah, it is. It's what it is. It's fire. It's a refining process. Iron sharpens iron.

Yeah, that's powerful. That is part of the whole process. You're going to enjoy this new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life. By this time next week, we'll be close to announcing it as a number one bestseller, I'm sure. Our sales and presale have been astronomical. Thank you, guys, for your response to Dr. John, to this book, to his podcast, to the first book, which was a number one bestseller. We appreciate that. Own Your Past, Change Your Future was his debut, and it was a number one. This book is incredible.

The six daily choices to prepare your life, build your life in such a way that when some anxiety comes, when some stress comes, when a chance to toughen, you're toughened up. You're ready. You've got some things. You've got your glass full, so to speak, and you're ready to fight. You're ready to push through the life when it comes at you. It changes everything. That's right.

And if you're like me, you didn't have the tools when your body started reacting this way, and this is a toolkit, man. It's a toolkit. It's a roadmap for how to live a better life for you, for your family, and for grandkids that you may never meet. Building a non-anxious life. Tomorrow's launch day. If you want the deal, go to RamseySolutions.com.

$20, including $75 worth of add-ons, till midnight tonight. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. If you like what you heard in this episode

and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramsaysolutions.com and click Get Started.