The Ramsey Show - App - Boom, Baby, Boom! The Proximity Principle Is Here! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: May 13, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and a paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Ola is with us in Washington, D.C. Hi, Ola. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Good day, Mr. Ramsey. Thank you so much for having me. How are you doing? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Okay, Mr. Ramsey, I've been following you for quite a while now.

You've been very helpful for me. I'm on baby step number three. I'm a recent immigrant into the country, and I was lucky to have gotten you quite in time, so I didn't even plunge into the credit cards at all. I've lived in England a little bit of my life where I studied. I'd fallen into the trap of credit cards in that time, but everything is all gone now. Now, my question is, I'm having real problem cutting through the stereotypes since I've been here. I haven't got a full paid job, which is commensurate with my education. I have a master's degree, but every time I go for an interview, I kind of have the stereotype with my accent or it is that I'm overqualified. So I've had to lean on my hobby, which is car detailing, which I've been doing for quite a while now.

And I make about just $24,000 a year. And that's not really what I want to make. So I guess my real question is, how do I cut through that stereotype of having a job that is commensurate with my experience and my education? Because every time it's either, oh, you might have a problem with inclusion or you're overqualified. Okay. So what's your country of origin? I'm Nigerian.

Great. And how long have you been in the States? I've been coming here back and forth, but I recently immigrated a little under here now. Okay. All right. And so you're on a green card? Yes. Okay. earlier now. Okay. All right. And so you're on a green card? Yes.

Okay. Very good. Okay. Well, I mean, there are two types of, well, three types of people out there that you might be talking to. If someone is just straight up stereotyping you exclusively because you're from Nigeria, that makes you unqualified to do a job, that would be called an ignorant person, and you wouldn't want to work for them anyway. Okay, number one. Number two type of thing is where they are hiring only the degree and the experience and not the person.

And there are sometimes larger companies, sometimes government positions, they get all concerned about where you went to school, your level of education, your background, your experience, and those things as the only sole indicators as to whether you can be successful at the job. And so you're getting ready to enter in those situations into a bureaucracy to where you only get ahead by adding to the list of degrees and adding just to the years of experience only. I think that's a substandard job, too, personally.

Your third option is really your best option and probably your only option would be to work for an organization where the people really don't care where you come from. They really don't care what color you are or what sex you are. And they really don't even give a rip about your degrees or your experience, except to the extent that it makes them believe you can get the work done. And around here, that's the way we do stuff. We discriminate against people who underperform. That's it.

Everybody else we don't discriminate against. I don't care if you're a man, you're a woman, you're black, you're white, you're purple, you're green. If you get the job done, you get a shot around here. And that's the kind of organizations that are out there all over America. America is full of places like that. And that's great news. And so, you know, we've had folks, green cards from all kinds of different countries, be on our team over the years.

We've had people that seemed to be underqualified or overqualified to do a job, but guess what? They did the job, and that's what mattered. So what's your degree in? It's in public affairs and administration. Oh, there you go. Okay. Yeah, it's in public affairs and administration, but technically I've been able to do more logistics because my experience has been working with government agencies that regulated the whole transport system

of the state. So we're the largest transfer provider in my home country, Lagos, where we had a fleet of over 800 buses. I started as the executive assistant and managing director and moved up to be the head of corporate communications and online content. So I was dealing with major departments, having major departments run together, and the liaison and technicality of the job with logistics. Well, I think you've got a real future then in what we would call supply chain, is what people call logistics these days, and outside of government. Because supply chain is a place where you can prove your worth in a heartbeat i've got a couple supply chain people on my team and they make me 10x what i pay them in terms of savings and managing distribution of products and purchasing and so forth and you're probably going to step outside

of government and the public affairs thing might step to the side the other thing is is you're probably not going to step into being the big dog and you're used to being the big dog i mean you used to be that used to be very important man where you were and you're probably not going to enter at that level sir i've really i've really calmed down and humbled myself like i said i work car detailing right now i work with a franchise someone that is basically a car detailing company but has a vision to franchise out so he's really like a down-to-earth startup entrepreneur. And I love what you call detail. And one day I hope to hopefully have

be a franchise so often. So as regards me being humble to do something else, I think what I would do in my interview process, what I'm saying is, if you came over here to interview for a supply chain position with us, we're a little 800-person company.

We're not huge. And so if you came in here, you might intimidate us a little bit if you start telling us how you ran an entire state. But if you just said, hey, I think I can add value in your supply chain thing, and you showed us how our little operation could be better off if we put you on. I think that it's your presentation of your skills and where they come from that makes you sound overqualified because you might be overqualified. But who cares if you can do the job? And I just need a shot. You know, I'm here from Nigeria on a green card. I just need a shot. And just tell the truth in these things and don't try to.

I'm not. I wasn't saying you had too much ego and needed to humble yourself. I was saying that you don't want them to think you have – the person you're interviewing with too much ego and needed to humble yourself. I think supply chain is great. You can probably land something in that area, $70,000 to $100,000 pretty quick if you can get your storyline dialed in to where a regular medium to small company that is hiring supply chain could hire you.

Hang on. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's brand-new book came out today, The Proximity Principle, and it'll help you in this process. It's the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love. So, yeah, the way I've overcome stereotypes against Southern hillbillies is I just outwork them. And if you're so ignorant that you're going to believe stuff because of where I work, part of the country I come from, it makes you too stupid to work with, and I move on to the next person. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. With more frequency than you know, I get calls and emails from people dealing with the recent loss of a spouse or a parent.

You can hear the struggle and the heartache that they've been experiencing. And at a time they should be grieving, what breaks my heart the most is the strain and tension that they're going through because of money, especially when it's a situation that could have been avoided. If you have a family, it is your responsibility to have term life insurance. It's one of the things you do to say I love you. And yes, this is an ad for Zander Insurance. But since this is one of the most effective ways I have to get my point across, so be it. For over 20 years, I've been telling you

about the importance of term life insurance and protecting your family. Listen, you need to check out Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. I can't say it enough. Protect your family. It's what you're supposed to do. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. A couple weeks ago, we had some of the world's best thought leaders and communicators teaching and speaking at our Entree Leadership Summit in San Diego. It was an absolute blowout. We had a blast. I had a blast sitting in the audience and taking notes from these people who are so

much smarter than me. And among them, my friend Marcus Buckingham was with us. And I asked Marcus while we were there together, I said, hey, we need to get on the radio show and talk about your new book because there is some amazing things going on in this new book. So he's going to join us. Hey, Marcus, how are you? I'm really good, Dave. How are you doing?

I am better than I deserve, man. The book, folks, is called A Freethinking Leader's Guide to the Real World, Nine Lies About Work. Now, Marcus is a global researcher. You may know him from Strength Finders, his unbelievable bestselling book there. But the way his brain works is he looks at things and tries to find the way people look at things and determine if it's accurate or not, and then go about the business of finding the truth through research. Nine lies about work. So we talked about this, and of course, I heard the. Nine lies about work. So we talked about this, and of course I heard the talks.

I'm cheating. I'm pitching underhand pitch. But what's the research that you've done reveal about the real world of work? Well, it starts, Dave, with just how good are we doing at the moment with productivity at work and engagement at work? And we've spent a lot of time over the last 30, 40, 50 years trying to help people be more productive at work and help people be more engaged at work. And yet the initial data on both those subjects shows that we have, gosh,

we have a lot of work to do to get better at it. Engagement, I run the ADP Research Institute now, and we finished this 19-country study of engagement around the world. And although it does vary a little bit country to country, if you were to generalize, you'd say between 15% and 16% of people are fully engaged at work, and that leaves 85% of us just coming to work. I mean, obviously some people's work is just difficult and tough, but for 85% of us just to be putting in our hours seems like such

a waste. And then purpose and productivity hasn't moved much since 1973. Think of all the time and money and energy we spent trying to get people to be more productive at work, and we're really just not growing at all. So that was the first impetus for the book was going, what is going on? We really haven't figured out yet, with some exceptions, but we really haven't figured out how to make work work for people in a sustainable and productive way. So that was the impetus, the driving force to say, before we start taking all of our assumptions about people at work

and building them into machine learning algorithms or artificial intelligence. Let's push on those assumptions and really see what the truth is about how people are productive, how they grow, how they learn, and the book was the result. Yeah. The best plan wins, lie number two. Lie number three, the best companies cascade goals. Number four, the best people are well-rounded um you know and number eight lie this is one i jumped on immediately and i loved when you talked about it a week before last work life balance matters most and your research basically

said hogwash well balance is a funny thing because we hold it up as this um the epitome of what we should all strive for and we almost use it as a synonym for health like something isn't balanced and isn't healthy unless it's unless it's balanced but if you think about it first of all finding that perfect balance is an incredibly precise precarious state i don't know anybody's ever found that perfect balance but even if you did, if you one day at like 9.30 on a Thursday morning, you figured out that the kids were fine and work was fine and your spiritual life was fine, your financial life was fine, and if you got it all balanced, what would be running through your head is nobody move. I finally got it. Freeze. Quick, take a snapshot. I got it. I got it. Freeze. Quick, take a snapshot.

Yeah. I got it. I got it. Because something's going to deteriorate. Right, right. And so, of course, if you think about health, health isn't stasis. Health is movement. Health is progress through. So we are all moving through life.

And we were, you know, blessed with, every one of us, that life does fill us up if we know how to look at it. Life, we're all different, but life is set up, I believe anyway, and we can see it in the data. Life is set up to invigorate us, and so if you get the categories wrong, and you say work is one category and life is another, and you should balance them, you set people up for failure, but if you change the categories, and you should balance them, you set people up for failure. But if you change the categories and you said, wait a minute, life is set up to have certain things or situations or people or contexts that invigorate you, certain activities or things or situations that you love, and then for whatever reason, certain situations or contexts or situations that you loathe,

if you have love and loathe as your categories, then what you would say to someone is you should intentionally imbalance your life toward those situations or activities or people or contexts that you love. Whether it's at work, whether it's in your community, whether it's in your family, if you can deliberately imbalance your life toward those activities that you love, the Mayo Clinic research would show that doctors who do this, if you get even 20% of your life doing particular activities at work or at home that you love, with each percentage reduction below 20%, you get a commensurate 1% increase in burnout risk. So we don't need lives that are filled with 100%

of things that we love. That's impossible. But even if you got 20, 25% of your work life, your home life, your community life, your family life, doing specific bits of that that you love, you are a different human. You're a more resilient, more contributive human. And the data on this is unequivocal. And yet we don't, it almost seems too fluffy, you know, but you look at the data, it's not fluffy. When you burn out and you lose your resilience, you are much more likely to be sick physically, psychologically, suicide goes up, productivity goes way down. So we forget the categories, right? Love loads. And then we say, hey, deliberately incline your life toward those activities you love

and do this so you can contribute more. This is about contribution. Down that path lies a, that is a better life, a more productive life. So, for instance, sometimes I tell people work extra for a little while, pick up an extra job or work extra hours to get out of debt. And their concern then is, oh, Dave, I don't want to be out of balance and not have my family time. And so based on the framework you were just outlining, what would you tell them? You know, it's interesting. So we've just completed, again, the whole point of the

book was look at the data. Don't look at the theory. Don't look at the dogma. Look at the data. How do people actually grow? How are they actually productive? And let's then draw conclusions from the world that is knowable. Well, I'll tell you what, if you go around the world and you ask people what their job status is, part-time, full-time, two part-time, one full-time, and you then correlate that to how engaged they are. It turns out that the most engaged work status around the world, country by country, is one full-time job and one side hustle. And so it fits directly with the advice that you're giving, and you're giving it for financial

reasons, but when you look at why is it that a full-time job and plus one part-time is the most engaging, it seems there are two reasons for that. One is because people, when they have their side gig, it gives them a chance to feel like they're in control. The most common job title of a gig employee is president. So people do like that feeling of control. The second reason is a greater opportunity to do like that feeling of control. But the second reason is a greater opportunity to do more of what I love. So yes, there's a financial incentive to get a side gig,

but for many people anyway, their full-time job gives them the security they might want, but the side hustle gives them a chance to express something about them that they love or that invigorates them. It doesn't work for everybody, but it sure seems as though that's a global phenomenon. The book is Nine Lies About Work. We're talking about just one of the lies, the line number eight, work-life balance, and you can see the insight that Marcus has on all of these things. A Free Thinking Leader's Guide to the Real World. It's a bestseller.

He's an uber bestseller. He's one of the best thinkers I've run into in a long time. We became fast friends, and I look forward to spending a lot more time with him. You will, too. Marcus Buckingham. Be sure and check out the new book, Nine Lies About Work. Thanks for hanging out, brother. Thank you, sir. Really appreciate it. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Nick is in New York. Hi, Nick. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? Great to hear. So I'm 21. I graduated college about two years ago.

And I've pretty much been watching your show religiously ever since. I currently live with my parents, though, and I've been looking at possibly purchasing a home or a condo of some sort. In the past two months, on and off, I've been looking, which I would have to take out a mortgage for. But I've been looking at everything from studios to multifamily events and kind of been interested in doing that house hacking movement. It's been somewhat overwhelming, though, so I was curious to know what you think the best next step for me is financially and also what your general opinion would be of house hacking. Okay.

You know, I'm okay with just taking things traditionally and slowly, because I don't find any shortcuts when the game's over. I think you just find the shortest distances. The best cut is not a shortcut, in other words. And so if I'm in your shoes, graduated early what's your degree in uh i got a bachelor's in film production but i i was in an accelerated program so i yeah pretty much was there so are you are you in film production yeah i work for a production company great what are you making uh mostly work on commercials for local businesses and things like that what kind of what kind of income are you making?

Around $60,000. Oh, wow. At 21 years old. And you're in film in New York, and you're doing what you love, right? I absolutely love it, yeah. Every single day I wake up and I'm happy to go to work. Man, that's awesome. And you're probably accelerating and exceeding in your career.

So I love where you are. My only advice would be just don't get in a hurry on any of this. There's no hurry to buy. There's no hurry to find another direction to go. If you want to get out and you just want to rent something inexpensive or get a roommate and get something, keep your costs down just to have your own identity, you know, you can start with that as a first step. But I really, you know, I kept, when I was kind of like you a little bit, I found what I loved. I love real estate.

I love numbers. And so I've ended up doing a lot of each over the years. And I was, you know, just, I guess, ambitious and just wanted everything to go real fast. So what I wanted to do while I was in college, I almost bought a house just to fix it up and flip while I was in college. Because I was just so geared up about getting things, you know, let's get this going. And I was in a hurry, you know. And honestly, what ended up happening later, and that's not going to happen. This isn't going to happen to you, but I'm just sharing with you who you're talking to.

I ended up going broke because of that because I bought a whole bunch of real estate I couldn't afford, went deeply in debt to do it, doing flips and fixes before there was cable tv to show you how and um you know i made a lot of money but i also just did it dumb because i was in such a hurry and the being in a hurry thing will bite you so the tortoise the tortoise beats the hair every time and and i really wouldn't try to trick the system if i was you i'd just go rent something inexpensive for a year um and if you want to buy at the end of that year um fine but i'd get out and just pile up cash as high as you can pile it because i think your i think your income is probably going to double fairly quickly and i really wouldn't want you to buy something based on your current income and then and then your income double because your situation changes so it's going to change so dramatically in the next three to four years.

That's my guess because you're in a field that you love. You're in an accelerated program. Your career, therefore, has accelerated beyond your years. And so by the time you're 25, I think it might be mind-blowing where you are. And so the real estate piece is not something I need to get in a hurry about. Now, I don't want you to be 35 and still have not bought something. In your case, that would be like forever, you know, 14 years. I'm not talking about that.

But 14 months, yeah, that would be okay. So that's just my thoughts. Don't get in a hurry. You're an accelerated dude, and it's hard to not get in a hurry. I'm an accelerated dude. It was hard for me not to get in a hurry, and it bit me in the butt. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tiffany is in Vail, Colorado.

Hi, Tiffany. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was curious. I just found your program about a month ago, and I started on my baby steps.

And due to medical reasons, I was not able to finish baby steps one, and I have to quickly move out of the elevation I'm currently in, and that's actually causing me to move out of state. And I have two young children. I'm a single mother. I just got out of a very long, four-year abusive relationship and was not allowed to work and work on paying off my debt before the marriage. Where are you going and what are you going to do? I am currently working at a local inn here.

Yeah, but you're leaving there. Yes. I will be moving to a tiny town around Wichita, Kansas, and going to work for a pharmaceutical company. Great. So my income is going to greatly increase. Wonderful. But is it a good idea to put Baby Step 2 on hold?

I just put everything on hold until you get over and start making some money. Okay. You got some healing. I'm like, you don't know the answer. It sounds like you got a little emotional healing to do and also some physical healing to do and also some physical healing to do. Yes, I do.

Okay, and so let's get the move done. When are you moving to Kansas? I have two weeks to move. I'm on medication and oxygen to keep me up here until my children finish school on the 24th and they hit the road on the 25th. Great. Okay road on the 25th great okay and um so you're

ready to go have you got the money to make the move um my boss is giving me a bonus when i get ready to leave um wow because i don't have enough saved up okay so you're just gonna load up the truck and head to beverly huh yeah i love it good for you a whole new life for tiffany okay so you're going to move on the 24th it was a good idea to put that on hold or just now i mean you're gonna put everything on hold until you get over to kansas right 24th is just two weeks from now i mean you're going to be in next week i mean you're going to be there in no time and um you know you need to get settled and don't go buy a bunch of stuff i mean don't go in debt don't go buy a new car don't go buy a house full

of furniture or something like that but let's not do any damage to our finances but you don't need to make any progress in your finances and you know by the end of june let's start your Total Money Makeover, okay? Mm-hmm. So what's the nature of your illness? I just got done battling ovarian cancer. It was stage four, and I got through that. Wow. Okay, and the altitude affects all this? I'm starting to have heart issues as a result of treatment. And the altitude exasperates it.

Altitude exasperates the heart issue? Yes. Okay, cool. All right, and so you're going to be a Flatlander again. Hey, I'm in. Let's do it. Game on, girl. Whole new life for you.

This is great. Well, when you get to Kansas in the end of june you're ready to start i want you to go through financial peace university as my guest i'm going to pay for it do you know what that is um i have heard of it and that's actually what got me turned on to your program gotcha it's a nine-week class and you're plugged into the membership which is the online aspects of everything for a whole year and i'm going to give both of them to you completely free to help you get started. I want to be part of your new story, okay? All right. Thank you so much.

All right. You get over to Kansas. Get chill. Don't spend any money, more than you have to. Get settled in. And as soon as you start getting some paychecks, July 1, Independence Day. Independence Day for Tiffany. I love it. That's when you start your plan. And you take 30 days and get settled in.

And again, don't go into debt. Don't buy a bunch of stuff. But let's get moved and then start your plan. Get settled in. You need to get away from a lot of things there that are going to be in your rear view mirror. Independence Day is on the way. Hold on. We're going to pick up and get you signed up for financial peace. today is book launch day for ramsey personality ken coleman's new book

the proximity principle the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love so what do you do when the new baby comes? Everybody just keeps running and looking at the new baby. And I keep checking on Amazon, and he's now all the way up to like number 81 on Amazon. So way to go, Coleman. Boom, baby, boom. I love it. Yeah.

So there you go. Hey, if you're wanting to dial in your career, this is the book of the year right here. The Proximity Principle, the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love by Ramsey personality, Ken Coleman. If you haven't heard Ken's show on Sirius XM, you need to tune in. Heard him on his podcast. He was on Fox and Friends this morning. And then Yahoo Finance and other shows over around the New York City area.

Just jumped on a plane and headed to Chicago, doing Good Day Chicago there and hanging out with our affiliates and doing a book signing there tomorrow night in the Chicago area. And of course that is going to be at the Barnes & Noble

there. And I'm trying to scratch around here in my notes to make sure I get this right, at Skokie Old Orchard at 6 o'clock. And then Thursday night, doing a book signing here in Nashville for the Proximity Principle just down the street from our offices. And a bunch of us Ramsey personalities will be hanging out to support him, including me. And so come down. We'll be at the Barnes & Noble in Cool Springs, right there on Mallory Lane, corner of Mallory and Moores.

And 6 o'clock is the signing time there. At each of his signings, we'll be giving away $500. No purchase necessary. Must be present to win. $4.50 in cash and $50 in a gift card to have coffee. So you're going to have coffee with someone because that's the whole idea here is connecting up with people, getting in proximity with people to be able to land your dream career, your dream job.

And Ken Coleman is the expert at helping you do all of that vanessa's with us in new york hi vanessa welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave thanks for having your show all these years well thank you thank you i'm honored okay so i'm calling because i'm about to be divorced and i have a nine-month-old son which prompted me to switch careers or think about switching careers or adding to my income. So I'm currently teaching. I've been teaching for 15 years. I still only make $59,000 in the New York City area. And I would like to go into nursing, maybe. Really, I would just want to clear up my debt, to be honest with you. But nursing, I think, would be a good fit for me to have as a side

hustle. My debt is $122,000 as undergrad and grad. I can go through an accelerated BSN program for my bachelor's in nursing, and I could finish it in a year. Or I could do that, I mean, within a couple years. I can take a sabbatical from work, which would give me half pay for a year. So with that sabbatical, I could go to nursing school with scholarships. I will never take a loan ever again. I can go to nursing school or I can go overseas and teach and make up to $100,000, go teach in Hong Kong or in parts of the Middle East. So I'm just trying to figure out what to do.

Okay. How long were you married? 11 years. So what I don't want you to do is make either one of these decisions based on some kind of fear. Like this divorce has knocked you on your heels a little bit. If it didn't, you wouldn't be a human being. Most human beings have feelings, and something like this hurts your feelings, to say the least.

That would be an understatement. And so I sense a little bit, and I may be wrong, maybe you're just, are you flailing a little bit? Well, I had planned on going overseas. My soon-to-be ex-husband was okay with me taking the baby. The marriage has been a fall of. No, but I mean, this doesn't sound like it's my life's plan. It sounds like the way you're describing it. It's like, I could do this, or I could do that, or I could do this.

And it's kind of like you feel like you need to get a hold of something real quick, or it's going to go bad or something. No, I taught overseas before. I lived in Japan for four years. So what do you want to do with your life now, in your next chapter? I'll raise my son and be debt-free. Okay, now that one, I'm not talking about your career. Let's say you were debt-free and you were raising your son.

Let's just put that as a, let's stipulate that, okay? That's done, okay, because you're going to do that. I'm going to show you how to do that, all right? Now, so you're raising your son and you're debt-free do you want to be a nurse do you want to be teaching overseas do you want to be a something else what do you want to be 10 years from now when your son is 10 that's i want to be traveling with my son. Traveling. And teaching overseas is the way. Yeah, traveling with my son, doing mission trips here and there, showing him the world, showing him.

You still haven't answered my question. What do you want to be doing with your career? My career. How old are you? I'm 38. I'm going to be 39. So when you're 50 years old and you're looking back and you go, man, after that divorce, I made some really good choices that led me to where I am now in my career.

I'm really glad I do that because I get to go to work every day and make money and do something that causes me to smile. What does that look like? Nursing. Really? So you see that as fulfilling, not just a money grab to get out of debt to be able to travel the world? No, I see it as fulfilling because my mom didn't have the education. She was a nurse's aide. Before she passed away, four and a half years, I mean three and a half years ago, she didn't have, she was a nurse's aide and she didn't have the education to do it.

My sister doesn't have the education to do it my sister doesn't have the education to do it and i feel like i'd be carrying on a legacy and i think they'd be i mean they're already proud of me but i think they'd be extra proud of me and icing on the cake is that you can make really good money and i can be a travel nurse i can do all those things together and caring is a part of what i do with teaching. Okay. But to be honest, you know, being in the teaching field is crazy. It's getting worse. Well, yeah, I don't know about that. I mean, it's not the kids, it's the parents or the lack thereof.

No, I love my students. It's not the parents, it's just the students. You just hear the helicopters coming in. No, no, my parents are awesome. My students are great. I love teaching, but the paperwork and the testing is just too much, and I don't want to do that anymore. I understand.

All right. Well, then take the steps that are the shortest path to get to be the 50-year-old you that we just described. Now, is that going overseas to teach for a year so we can easily pay cash and get through our nursing? Or is it let's just bust into the nursing, take the half pay, and you can live on the half pay while you do that? You can make it? Yes, because I don't pay rent. I live in my mom's place. Okay. All right. So you can live there for a year, take half pay, live on that,

finish the nursing, and that's the shortest distance to the nursing gig, isn't it? Yes, it is, sir. And that's where you want to go. It is where I want to go. Now that you really, like, press me. Yeah, so the teaching overseas is a detour. It's the wrong direction.

Yeah, you're right. You're going to finish the nursing and you're going to nurse overseas. So you get to travel with your son and see things and make really good money as a nurse because you love the adventure of travel combined with being a nurse. Did I hear you right? Yes, you hit the nail on the head, sir. Okay, all right.

You rock this, girl. You're going to be great. Thank you so much, sir. Your next chapter is going to be really pretty. It's going to be beautiful. Thank you. Do it on purpose, okay? Yes, sir. I got a copy of Ken Coleman's book for you, The Proximity Principle, because it fits in with everything we're just talking about here. All I did was walk you down the same process Ken does on his show every day. I stole it from him. I listen to him all the time. The Proximity Principle, the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love.

Hear what we just did? Yeah. He does this all the time. He's really good at it. It's fun to listen to. But all we're doing is doing stuff intentionally with a long-term game plan in mind, people. If you do that with different portions of your life, different segments of your life, it'll change your life. So hang on, Miss Vanessa. We'll get you a copy of that book.

That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer. We'll be back with you. Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. We'll be back with you. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.