The Ramsey Show - App - Borrowing Money Won't Take You Where You Want to Go (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 30, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. My co-host on the show today is Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality. We are here to talk about your life, your money, your career, and any way we can help you. 888-825-5225. Nicholas is in Florida. Hey, Nicholas, how can we help? Hi, Dave.

So my wife and I were almost at the end of baby step two. We only had a little over a grand left. And about three weeks ago, our car, we got it from a friend, and he was nice enough to let us pay payments on it. The engine blew, and we had to use our emergency fund and even a little bit of it more to pay him. And we were without work for a week. We tried to look for other solutions, but we felt so stuck. And I did a stupid thing and I financed a $10,000 car. And I was just going there feeling like it's just what I had to do, which already felt bad enough. And as I was sitting in the finance manager's office,

I just remember one of the quotes that you say often where the borrower is the slave to the lender. And I just, from that moment until now, I just feel so crushed. I feel like I have a big sign that says idiot on my head and i don't know what to do well me too man i just tried to turn the lights off on the sign so it's not so obvious oh let's see let me get this straight uh you did something stupid does that mean you are stupid no no it doesn't because if you if you didn't realize you did something stupid and you did something stupid then you're probably stupid yeah uh me too me too me, you know. So what do you do, Ken, when you fall off the wagon? Well, you dust

yourself off. And you get back on the wagon. Yeah, but reflect first. I like to add a little step in there. Let's look at why did I fall off? What drove me to that? And it was fear. You know, I think we've got to understand, we have to learn from these moments. It's not enough just to say, alright,

I'm not stupid, and I can get back out of it because you can but i want you to examine why you made that decision what drove you to making a nonsensical decision it's not even stupid you just you weren't in you weren't in a place of clarity while you're doing it you knew it was wrong yeah so what's happening in your head that allows you to do that because if you don't fix that part to ken's point you'll do it again right that's that's that's what we want to reflect on so what drove you what was your driver um i mean we need a car for our work and we just felt like there was nothing else we wanted to get another cheap car like our one before, but we just had this feeling like we would go into the same thing where it would also break again and we would just be going into this cycle. We were planning as of right now to pay this one off within a year, but I knew that even with that, I just felt like there was something better, but not a better option. I'm not going to pick this apart, but I just want to speak to the fear,

because you were afraid it was going to happen again. It's like being afraid you're going to get struck by lightning twice, and the odds of that are very, very, very, very, very slim. Did you get the first car, the one from your buddy? Did you have a mechanic look it over before you agreed to buy it? Yeah, we did. We had mechanics. We had friends they're familiar with cars okay uh it said that it was okay it was still finding it was a 2007 kia so it seemed some

days but overall the people who were looking at it said it was all right but we drive a lot so sure well so i guess it was just his time. So here's the deal. So a bad thing happened. Life happens, okay? You did what you needed to do there. You weren't reckless, it seems, and so something still happened, you know? It was bad, and something bad happened. And so now what you did is you compounded a bad situation by going and getting a $10,000 loan for a car,

and there was another way. I'll bet there were two or three other ways. And that's what I want you to reflect on, is that even in those moments where you feel like there's no other way, pause. There always is. There's another way. Sleep on it. Get about five other opinions.

You just needed some feedback. You needed to pause. Yeah. That's what the lesson is. Rent a car. Buy a $1,000 car. The thing about $1,000 cars is they're throwaways. Mm-hmm.

They're disposable. $10,000 cars aren't and uh and so what here here's your challenge and here's what you got to figure out okay is what is going to take you long term to where you want to go and i'm not media i don't mean transportation wise i mean in terms of the decision-making and principles that you're using with money, what's going to take you where you want to go? When Sharon and I went broke, we determined, we became thorough believers 30 years ago that borrowing money was not going to take us where we wanted to go. And so every time we were painted into a corner,

every time we were backed into a corner of someone pointing a metaphorical gun at our face and said, okay, the only way out of this is borrow. The only way out of this is get a $10,000 car. Every time we just said we can't borrow money. We changed our belief about what is going to cause us to win. And borrowing money was no longer on that list. And so we never again, because we no longer believe that, we never again have borrowed money. And so the problem is that your belief was tested

and you didn't believe that the best way, and you thought instead, you know, your four-year-old kid that lives inside of all of us said, well, you're always going to be driving a junk car. No, you're not. You drive a junk car. You drive like no one else. So later, you can drive like no one else. You know what I drive now?

Anything I want. You know why? Because I drove crap for a long time with Bondo as the primary color. Yes. You know? And so I drove like no one else. Now I can drive like no one else. And so you've got to believe that that's actually going to occur, and then you can go back into a piece of crap when your other piece of crap breaks.

That's right. Let's talk about belief. But it's temporary. Yes. See, when you talk about you and Sharon saying, we are not going to choose debt. Ever. So we're in a corner. Ever.

So here's what happens. When you focus on never, ever, ever, ever again having debt, guess what happens? You get tempted. Certain options are removed. Yeah. And other options appear. So this is a focus thing. So he, and again, we're not picking on him at all.

But I drove crap. Oh, yeah. As a result. Listen. For well over a year and a half. First four years of our marriage, Stacey and I's marriage, I drove a Ford Taurus that didn't have AC in Tennessee. But it wasn't for 30 years. No, it was for a year and a half.

Yeah, absolutely right. I'm old. A year and a half ain't much. Well, you know, the situation here is he began to say, well, debt's an option. I don't want it to be an option, but it's an option. I don't want it to be an option. I feel bad about it, but it's an option. And then it became the option. It wasn't an option. I don't want it to be an option, but it's an option. I don't want it to be an option. I feel bad about it, but it's an option. And then it became

the option. It wasn't the option. Your emotions take over instead of your belief. You've got to focus on other things. What I think you need to do is you need to sit down and reevaluate what you really believe is going to cause you to win with money. Is it the stuff we teach? If it is, then this has to be a one-time thing.

And by the way, if that's the case, sell the car. Get rid of the debt. Now, undo the problem. Because every time you get in that thing, you're going to feel like you screwed up. Because you screwed up. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are you ready to really take control of your money? Personal finance expert and Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz's brand new book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, is out on January 5th.

And that means our exclusive pre-order deal ends very soon. If you're ready to start 2021 by making real progress, taking back total control over your money tendencies, this book will give you the tools to win. Know Yourself, Know Your Money goes beyond the baby steps and gets to the root of your money choices and even the mistakes. Our special pre-order deal is ending soon. If you pre-order Know Yourself, Know Your Money for only $20 today, you get $150 worth of free bonus items. Hurry, reserve your copy today to get your free bonus items before the pre-sale ends. Pre-order before January 5th at the online store at DaveRamsey.com

or call our Ramsey concierge team at 888-227-3223. This hour of the Dave Ramsey Show, my co-host is Ramsey Personality, Ken Coleman, host of the Ken Coleman Show. You can hear him on SiriusXM by podcast, YouTube, and 50 radio stations, just to mention a few places. This is all over the place and answering your questions a couple hours a day about career, about jobs, and about life. And so we're talking about your life, your money, your business, your career, all that stuff this hour. Your call is at 888-825-5225. John's in Missouri.

Hey, John, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken. How are you guys today? Good. How are you? Great. How can we help?

Well, I'm currently following the Dave Ramsey program. I'm on Baby Step 2. I've got about $60,000 left to pay. I've been working on that for about a year. Good. And I'm wanting some help with working the Baby Steps and also trying to follow Ken's program. I have the proximity principle, and I'm wanting to find my sweet spot.

I've worked a lot of different jobs and there have just been jobs that haven't really been anything I've been passionate about. Cool. So what do you make now? My take-home is about $18,000 to $20,000 a year. Okay. All right. And let's start with, before we try to figure out that sweet spot, you've listened to the show enough to mention it that way. Do you have any sense of something that you would do if there were no challenges, no money issues, you'd just

go do this? Something you've always wondered about. What comes to mind? Well, I really love helping people and solving problems. What kind of problems? Tell me more. What kind of problems would you love to get up and solve all day long? Well, I think from listening to Dave a lot, I want to have people with money. I made some poor decisions in life with finances, including student loans and debt, and I want to help people avoid that problem as much as possible. All right, great. So this is a wonderful clue here, and it's really answering the question in what is my mission, the result of my work. So you want to help people with money problems.

And so the question becomes, do you feel like you would rather help them on the coaching side of things, financial coaching or investing? Dive into that a little bit more. What would that look like day to day? How would you be doing that? What's the solution that you're excited about providing to those people with money problems uh probably more on the coaching side i mean i'm pretty good communicator most of my friends say that i always love public speaking great did some speeches and stuff and uh high school and i really like getting up in front of people and talking and helping people through advice and things like that.

Have you ever coached at all, even if it's for your kids or in some environment where you were some type of coach? No, I haven't tried that yet. Yeah, all right. Well, you know, listen, the communication skills, so we look at talent, passion, mission, they have to intersect. So what you do best and what you love to do and the results that matter to you most, they come together. And the financial coach certainly can be that.

And I think what you've got to do is I'd like to see you, your homework assignment is to, you need to talk to somebody who's a successful financial coach. I want you to call our team, our financial coach master training. I want you to kick the tires, learn about the program itself. It's a wonderful program, and it's going to teach you how to be a coach, and then it'll help you build that business because this is going to be a side hustle. Now, you're not making a ton of money right now, but you're going to have to build this. You don't just say, well, I'm now trained as a financial coach,

and then everybody shows up at your door. This is very much an entrepreneurial journey, and so you're going to have to build this one customer at a time by really coaching. But what I want you to do before you go this direction is what I call clarify and verify. You talk to people that are actual successful financial coaches, and here's what you're asking. How'd you get to where you are in your business, to where you're successful? Ideally, they're full-time or on the path to becoming full-time. How'd you get to where you are in your business, to where you're successful? Ideally, they're full-time or on the path to becoming full-time.

How did you get there? And then tell me what it's like day-to-day. When you're coaching people, what's it like? You need to really clarify what that role entails. And then the verify will take place. Your heart will verify, yes, I want to do this, or no, it's not what I thought it was. That's not the play. And so that's what you have to do to really confirm. And that's the stage one of my seven stages to significance.

It's getting clear. Then the next stage is get qualified. And our financial coach master training will qualify you. And while you're getting qualified, you're in stage three as well, which is getting connected, beginning to tell people, hey, I'm coming this direction. I'm going to be offering my financial coaching services. If you need help, you're beginning to talk to people who have been successful in it again to see how they launch their business. So that's the path if, in fact, Dave, that he feels like, yep, financial coaching is the direction I want to go. Or if there is another type of coaching that you can get involved in. That's right. the direction I want to go. Or if there is another type of coaching that you can get involved in, and if you could land a position somewhere, all

it would have to pay is what you're making now or more, and you can make that while you're in Baby Step 2, because as long as you're not taking a step back in income in Baby Step 2, you're fine. You're heading in the right direction. Cody's in Utah. Hi, Cody. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Gentlemen, it's a pleasure to talk to you guys you too what's up uh just had a quick question um i've only been listening to you guys for a few months now i had a friend brian in washington that led me on to you guys so i appreciate that from him um me and my wife i'm 25 she's 23 we have been trying to have the kid for a couple of years now and we just found out a couple months ago that we're pregnant yeah that's

awesome yeah so i'm excited but terrified just exactly how i feel right now talking to you guys that's how you should be not from us but for, but from Matt being a dad. That's normal. Absolutely. So I wanted to share with you guys our financial position right now and get your advice on how to kind of attack the debt that we have and just any of your other fatherly advice. So I make $30,000. My wife makes $40,000 currently. I'm actually changing jobs to where I could start a career in insurance with health insurance.

And I'll be making anywhere between $70,000 to $100,000 by myself. And that starts in August. How much debt do you guys have? Yep. So we have about $8,700 in a car loan. And then we have $130,000 in a home mortgage. Um, that's all. And then, uh, that's all. Yeah. And we've paid off about, we've been really trying to stick by the budget and we've paid off actually $30,000 worth of loans in the last year. And, uh, so what's your

question? So my question is, because I i've i've listened to a little bit and i know like when you were planning on having a baby you say stop so we currently have about 7 000 in checkings 2 500 in savings and then 5 000 in investments um write a check and pay the car off. Pay the car off. Today. Even with the baby on the way, that's due in December. Today. And with no car payment and your tight budget, between now and December, you're going to have a pile of money.

And you're doubling your salary starting August. You're doubling your take-home, both of you, together, your money. So you're in really great shape. Don't even think twice about what Dave said. Do it. Okay. So, like, again, I'm going to be first time parent. I have not like, besides the hospital told us because we're

working with like midwives and stuff like that, that after insurance, uh, we're going to have to pay like 1400 bucks, which to me is not bad for giving birth or whatever, you know, whatever. But, um, I don't know what other costs there are to having a baby after. I know you're like stockpile, stockpile cash. Like what other things are you telling people to stockpile cash for? I'm not. You're going to budget the pampers, dude. You're going to budget the formula.

Yep, that's right. And you're going to budget the monthly bill to the pediatrician for the first six months. It's federal law. You have to pay their Porsche payment for them. And so, you know, you're going to have some bills out of pocket, but you're going to have plenty of money coming in, and you'll adjust your budget. They don't eat much. A jar of carrots doesn't cost much.

Yeah, it's not bad. And this idea of children cost so much, yeah, they cost a little bit. It's not that bad. I mean, you don't want to have 73 of them when you have 14 000 income but but uh but i mean it's not going to crush your situation there's not a big stockpile of not a big tsunami of expenses coming with the baby now you do have to guard against uh nursery itis uh which is a disease that affects first-time parents where they spend $14,000 on a bed for a kid that doesn't even sleep. Right. Nor do they see the wallpaper or all the other things you put in the room.

Yeah. It's cute for you and your wife only or mainly for your wife. So don't overspend on the nursery and all the toys and all the other stuff. But other than that, you should not have a tsunami. I think you're going to be just fine. Nursery-itis. I think you just created a real condition. I've observed it.

We should submit that. I've observed it. That's a new word for the year. Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today here on the air as we talk about your careers, your money, your life. And Jennifer, we're going to talk about Jennifer. Jennifer's in Austin, Texas. Hi, Jennifer, how are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are y'all?

Great. I see on my screen you're debt-free. Congratulations. I am. Thank you so much. So how much have you paid off? I've paid off a little over $63,000. Good for you.

And how long did this take? It took about 15 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that 15 months? I started out making around $75,000 base salary, got up to $79 to 79 and with side hustles and um bonuses add you know 20 to 30 grand more to that so i think i ended up around 100,000 to 110,000 wow you're kicking it good for you what do you do for a living i am a technical writer okay what's those side hustles okay and the side hustles were freelancing?

Oh, man. I did everything. I started out dog walking and sitting. Whenever somebody posted anywhere, if they knew anybody who did anything, I basically asked for forgiveness instead of permission and said I knew how to do it and figured it out along the way um the biggest financial um impact was me selling other people's stuff for a commission oh good for you yeah okay working the ebay or the craigslist route huh okay yeah facebook marketplace is oh yeah there you go My go-to. Good. What kind of debt was the $63,000?

Well, $19,000 of it was a car, and then $44,000 was credit card debt. Wow. Did you sell the car? Yeah. That's an interesting story. I did sell the car. The $19,000, I was in the middle of paying it down, and then I was in a little bit of a bad relationship, and my ex shot the car.

So there was some credit card debt put toward that to fix the car in order to sell it. But selling a car with bullet holes in it is a little difficult. This is an ex that needs to be exed. Yeah. Oh, he was exed. Yes. Wow. Thank the Lord. Goodness lord goodness gracious well that kind of seals the deal just in case you were wondering about what you're supposed to do with this

relationship bullet holes will tell you that yeah oh my gosh yes unbelievable so you got rid of the car bullet holes and repairs and some extra credit card debt and but 19 000 of the 63 goes that way rest of it you just hustled and hustled and hustled, huh? Yeah, I didn't fully understand the ramifications of trusting someone else with my finances, and it was a really toxic relationship. I'm actually the frugal person in relationships, and it was a very costly mistake. But I wasn't looking at income statements. I was being naive and just let somebody else handle it and realized $44,000 later that I had made a huge mistake.

Yeah. So bullet hole buddy ran your credit cards up then. Yeah. And the only reason I saw it was my job at the time was liquidated, and I started looking for other jobs, and I realized how bad it was. And so I reached out to family and found a job, and my aunt and uncle let me live with them, helped me get out of that relationship, and just start figuring out finances. Good for you. Well done. You've changed your whole life.

Upside down. Jennifer, I want to ask you, what was your emotional state? Obviously, this was a toxic relationship, and you discover all of this, and that has to be shocking and traumatic in its own right. What was your emotional state like when you started the debt-free journey? And compare that to what it's like now after you've paid off that last debt. You know, when I started out, my emotional state was all over the place. I mean, I was devastated. Whenever you get out of a relationship, I feel like, you know, it is the death of something,

even if it's the right thing for you to do. It was really difficult for a lot of reasons and toxic relationships are cyclical. So I felt just like a victim and like I had no control and like I was reckless. And so getting out of debt wasn't just for myself and my future and the betterment of my future, but it was also for me to feel completely unshackled from the relationship that I was in. Powerful, powerful again. You feel powerful again. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Good for you. Well, I'm proud of you. I bet your mom and dad are proud of you. They are. Aunt and uncle you said you moved in with. I bet they are.

Oh, my gosh. Ken, it's all about the proximity principle, right? You are the aggregate of the people that you surround yourself by. So when I realized I needed to surround myself with great people, I did that. My circle got smaller. And, you know, my boyfriend, my aunt, my new boyfriend, sorry, my aunt, my uncle, my best friend, sister-in-law, brother, mom, dad, I would be here without them, but it would be way, way harder and not nearly as glorious. It's the old metaphor, addition by subtraction, subtracting negative people, people that are toxic, people that aren't on the same page as you. It's really huge. Exactly.

It's a growth. Exactly. Good for you. Well done. So what do you tell people now that you've been through all of this transformation and the money piece was kind of in the middle of it? What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I know a lot of people talk about sticking to a budget and, you know, staying dedicated. I

totally agree with that. But for me, my foundation was forgiveness. And it wasn't just forgiving him, but forgiving myself for putting myself into this situation. And any time resentment would creep back into that, you know, recklessness would ensue. I would purchase something emotionally, and usually it was like brownies or something sweet that I didn't need to have as well. But I realized that by, you know, having hate in your heart, it's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die, right? Well, you're just hurting yourself and hurting what you could be if you're not forgiving yourself. That's so good, Dave. Impressive. Very impressive. Very impressive. impressive well i mean you getting out of debt is a small part of your overall equation it's a it's an outward symptom of your inward healing and your strength

that you got back and your dignity that you got back and walking away from the shame that you were shaming yourself even is what you're saying right oh yeah, you know, it, there are two, two sides to every coin, right? So you flip the coin and I, I felt like I was enabling and I could have done X, Y, and Z and, you know, hindsight is so 2020. So looking back, you're, you're looking at your decisions and you're like, man, I could have done that so differently in my life would have been so much easier. But you kind of, you know, the windshield is bigger than the rearview mirror for a reason. So you need to keep looking forward and just make sure that that rearview mirror isn't, you know, nothing's creeping up on you. Absolutely incredible. Well done. Well done. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That is the journey that you're on.

That's the next chapter in your story. And I think we've just seen the beginning of what Jennifer is going to become. Absolutely incredible. Very, very well done. Thank you so much. All right. It's Jennifer in Austin, Texas, $63,000 in 15 months, making $75,000 all the way to $110,000 with the side hustles. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I can't believe it. Yeah! Woo! She threw her head back. I don't know if you could hear that. She got away from the phone because she let it rip.

Got rid of $42,000 and three bullet holes. Oh, my gosh. What a transformation. What a jerk that she was tied up with. Yes. This is unbelievable. Yeah. Oh, wow.

And coming out of something like that, when you've not been around anything like that, coming out of something like that, for those of you who don't know, is a big deal. It's a really hard process. And once you've done that, getting out of that thing is really not hard. When she said forgiveness, I hope you folks locked in on that. Forgiving yourself is huge. We have to remind ourselves, we forget, that we are the person we listen to the most. The most influential voice in our lives is the voice in our heads.

And she nailed it. Because it runs 24-7. 24-7. What a phenomenal lady she is. Well done. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of the ever-popular Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about careers and talks about getting a job and talks about finding your purpose all of those things every day is joining me today as my co-host here on the dave ramsey show open phones at

888-825-5225 you can find ken's show on sirius xm on 50 plus radio stations around america and of course uh on youtube as well, and a podcast. So we put these shows out where you can find them, and you can get the help that you need. Adrian is with us in San Diego. Hi, Adrian. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

Thank you so much. I'm a new listener, so I just want to say that what you guys are doing there is just amazing, so thank you so much. Thank you. We appreciate you listening. How can we help? So I met three years ago. I decided to buy a townhouse as an investment strategy.

And now after listening to you guys, I just don't think it was a very wise decision. So right now I am $400,000 in debt, and so I'm renting the property. But after paying the mortgage and the homeowners association and taxes, I end up paying $350 a month out of my pocket. And something that is coming up is that I'm getting engaged soon, and, you know, I would like to buy a home with my future wife, and that's something that we talk about.

So, you know, so my question is how should I handle this? Should I just go very, you know, intense in paying the mortgage, or should I just save for the home and the site? How about selling it? Well, I don't kind of want to sell it. I kind of just want to keep it. You should. I should sell it or keep it?

You should sell it. It loses money. It loses money, okay. You're writing a check to own it. Okay. Most investments that I have pay me. Yes. That's what they're supposed to do.

Yeah. Yeah. Will it sell for enough to pay off the mortgage and put some money in your pocket to help you start your life with this new lady? It should. Good. This is baggage you don't need. I don't think you're going to do it, but you're a new listener. I appreciate it.

It may take you a little time to think about it, but I love real estate. I can't stand real estate that doesn't cash flow. What's the psychology going on? Because he's not the only person that's in a situation like this. He's a new listener, but when you said sell it, you could hear it was just like, he didn't know that was coming at him. I knew you were going to say it, but what is the human condition there where we go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm selling it? Hey, why in the world would I sell it?

Why is that such an unnatural conclusion for him and others like him? Well, because he's deeply invested in the idea, emotionally invested in the idea of owning this rental property property. And that is eventually going to be a great investment. Someday it's going to come back. Because all real estate turns out. Well, all real estate doesn't turn out. Real estate that doesn't cash flow doesn't turn out. And, you know, what it does, it puts a pinch on you rather than

be a blessing to you. And so, you know, when you got no equity, and he has virtually no equity in this property. I mean, he got a little bit, so he'll get out of it whole. But, you know, he doesn't have a 50% equity position. It's not going to cash flow. And so it doesn't make sense.

But what he was taught and what a whole bunch of people believe, the same crap I was taught in the real estate business, is that if you buy this, the renters are going to pay it off over 30 years. Well, the renters aren't paying it off. You're paying it. You're paying $350. If they don't pay, you're paying a bunch more. If something breaks, you're paying a bunch more. This thing is a drain on you for 30 years before it becomes a blessing.

This is not a good investment. It's not a quality investment. It's a a quality investment. It's a liability more than it is an asset. And so that's what we get into when we buy rental properties with almost nothing down because they always pinch you. But people have this mindset of, oh, it's all going to work out. It's all going to work out. It's all going to work out.

And I'm just saying, dude, if you were marrying my daughter, I would say sell sell it if you were my son getting ready to get married i would say sell it and i own a whole bunch of real estate and i want you to own a whole bunch of real estate someday this real estate owns you katie is with us in roanoke virginia hi katie how are you i'm doing well thank you how are you better than i deserve how can Ken and I help? Oh, I'm so glad to be talking with you both. I wanted to ask if I should quit my very stable job that I've been with for over 10 years to pursue a job that is closer to my passion that will actually help lead me to what I feel is my calling. The job I'm in right now I feel is sucking the lifeblood out of me,

and this pandemic has given me the opportunity to really evaluate what's important in life. Why would you not? Well, fear. I know I've listened to Ken, and I've read all of your books, Dave, and I've read Ken's book. I've read Chris's book. Okay, let me show for a long time. I'm going to let Ken take this because this is an area, but I'm curious about two things.

If you made the job, if you got the dream job, do you make more money or less money than you make now? There's a potential for a great deal more money. Okay, so it's more money. There's more money. And could you not interview and take that job and just simply leave the job you're in and go make more money, and you're in a better job making more money,

and there was no gap between? What keeps you from doing that? more money and you're in a better job making more money and there was no gap between what keeps you from doing that i'm going from a salaried position to a hundred percent commission job okay so there's there's a big dose of fear i got you now now i understand okay and if i heard you correctly uh katie this is not the dream job but this is getting you on the path to the dream job, this other opportunity, correct? Yes. This puts me closer to the people, which is one of the things that you say is very important. This puts me closer to the people I need to be near in order to be into the dream job I want to be, and that's a financial coach master trainer,

which I've been doing on the side for friends and family for a long time. But that's something that I really felt in my heart was a calling. But this job is 100% salary, and I have a family of six. Yes, that's a very large. Okay, so let's break that down. All right, so there's a healthy dose of fear here. And so fear can be good. It lies to us a lot.

But this is a situation where you've got to be cautious. Are you double income? Right now, yes, we are. All right, so how much of your salary is of the total? What's the total income and how much of it is yours? Okay, total income is $101,000, and of that income, I'm $37,000. Okay, and has this job been offered to you, this straight commission job? I have been through one interview, and I have my second interview on Monday.

Okay. All right. So first of all, this hasn't been offered. So you don't have a heavy decision yet. But to begin to think about this is the right move. So here's what you need to be thinking about. So what would we need to do financially to allow for whatever the ramp-up time is and my question is are you far enough along in the interview process to know how long they are projecting this new company that you would start bringing in income they

know what they're doing so presumably and you need to ask okay let's say that you offer me the position and i get in and i do everything and i'm successful how long does it take for a successful person in this position to start making the income that you're telling me I can make. You need to know that. What are you interviewing for? What kind of position? It's a position with an insurance and brokerage company.

Okay. They've been around for over 125 years, and I've checked them out thoroughly. That doesn't mean anything. They weren't around 125 over 125 years, and I've checked them out thoroughly. That doesn't mean anything. They weren't around 125 years in their current condition. Yeah, the other thing I was going to tell her is do your homework on this, and if it's not a good financial move, you need to back off and say, this is not the only way to the dream job. Dave, I know this about mountaintops.

There's a lot of ways up the mountain, and she needs to be okay walking away from this if this is a bad financial situation for her and her family no need to take the risk there's another way uh if this is uh katie if this is glorified life insurance sales walk yeah i didn't even pick up on that walk away it's a bad product yeah it's a bad product and they're gonna um it is not going to pay out anytime soon uh and you know the failure rate is huge there There's another way up a mountain. Yes.

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