The Ramsey Show - App - Break the Cycle of Financial Self-Sabotage

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. And we are answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. And I feel like we need to give a little shout out. This weekend is our money and marriage getaway.

We have 600- Valentine's weekend. Valentine's weekend. So we have 600 couples coming to Nashville. And there's a bunch of them here in our lobby today watching the show, which is so fun. So we are here, though, live, taking your calls. So give us a call.

We're talking about your life, your money, your relationships. And first up, we have Brian in Billings, Montana. Hey, Brian. Welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. What's up, dude? Absolutely.

How can we help? So my soon-to-be ex-wife and I bought a house, um, a year ago, last February. And then this last October, she decided that she wanted a divorce. Um, she already moved out and I decided to try and keep the house by myself. Um, after we purchased the house, she racked up like $10,000 in credit card debt. And I've been working really hard to get this down, but it seems like after all the bills that I pay every month, I have like maybe an extra $100 I can throw at it. And it just seems like at this rate,

it's going to take forever to pay these credit cards off. And I don't know if it's smart to keep or sell the house at this point. Were the credit cards in your name that she racked up after the divorce? They were, yes. They were. And was this after the divorce? No, it was, we were still. Still legally married.

Okay, at that point. Yeah. Can you afford to keep this place? So I make like 4,400 a month and the house payment is 2,360. Yeah, dude. You can't breathe, brother. What do you do for a month, and the house payment is $2,360. Yeah, dude. You can't breathe, bro. What do you do for a living, Brian?

I'm an electrician apprentice, and hopefully next month I'll be able to take my juryman's exam, so I would get a significant pay bump. Yeah, what would that look like? In an ideal world, how much would you be making? Probably around $3, 38 40 an hour okay but per month if you're at 4400 right now what what would you expect it to climb to like 6 000 yeah that's that's the hope okay and what's the reality of that actually happening uh i'd say there's probably i don't know% chance that I'd be able to make that happen.

And that's going to happen in the next month or two? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. I would wait then, because in that case, I mean, if you're making, yeah, I mean, if you're making six grand a month, then that's about a quarter of your take-home pay. I mean, that is the parameters. But you've got to get it. Yeah, I mean, that has to be the case, Brian. And I think you have to emotionally be able to detach yourself that if it doesn't happen the way you think it's going to happen,

that you can't afford it. You can't afford this house on $4,400 a month. Yeah. And I mean, brother, it's pretty tight on six. Yeah. It's real tight. I mean, it's tight right now. Yeah.

Especially. So why do you want to keep this house? Like, let's pretend you weren't married, making what you make now, and even what you might potentially make. Would you walk in and buy this house? No, but the main thing for keeping it at the moment is that there's not any equity in it.

And so we're probably going to have to pay to even sell the sell the house yeah but even if you have to pay three percent or whatever you're like i just see most couples that go through divorce one person wants the divorce just to happen and then the rest of their life just keep going on as it was and right it feels like you're bleeding money everywhere you got this debt here you got lawyer fees over there you're gonna get court docket fee you're gonna get just feed to death and it's like playing whack-a-mole with all these different bills the only folks i see be successful in this transition dude are folks who understand everything about my life that was is now over right and really like metaphorically taking your arm

and just swiping it across the table and saying, okay, would I buy this house right now? No. Okay, then I'm going to spend five grand getting out of it. Yeah, is the main motivation, Brian, to stay in because you feel like you're going to lose money or are there kids involved and you're wanting to stay in for them?

Or what's the main motivation? Just the main is just because of the money aspect um i mean i don't really i'd call a realtor and get an actual real number in your head what's making you think that that well because you guys just bought it a year like six months ago is that what you're saying yeah it's basically in i feel like an updated monthly report on it and you'll have to pay capital gains because it's been under two years as well yeah there'll be no gain oh that's yeah yeah that's right yeah i would get a realtor dude i'd get a realtor and get real numbers and run some comps too brian because i yeah yeah that's right i think

there's probably a lot of emotion wrapped up in this and um i have written a check I wrote a check one time for like forty six hundred dollars to get out of the house and it's the it's the best it's it's one of the best money I've ever ever ever ever and they say nobody brings a check to closing you get one right I did I brought one and yeah within two months I had basically paid myself back if you will and that started my entire process again yeah getting out of debt and just stopped being chained everything yeah and i think to underestimating the weight of feeling like i have to keep up a mortgage payment it's your home like do you know what i mean like there's there's an extra weight there that you're carrying because of it it's not like

a car loan that you can sell and kind of figure out when it's your home there's like this this desperation that sets in and not always making wise decisions. And I realize my math is bad. Yeah, it's 37%. When it was 30, it wasn't 45. It's still pretty high. It was like 38, 39%. I'd sell it.

So, yeah. Unless they come back and say you're going to lose 60 or 70,000 bucks. How much does this house cost when you bought it? We financed 295. Okay, yeah. You'll probably spend up to 1010,000 or $15,000 to write a check to get out.

Yeah. And that will be painful on top of everything else. How are you doing with the divorce mess? It is what it is, I guess. No, it's not. It's not. It's not a real statement. That's what dudes from Montana say

when they're trying to stop from weeping. How are you? You know, I'm not that great. You know, the past few months have been pretty bad. You have little ones involved? We have a 19-month-old baby. Oh, man. And we're just trying to navigate co-parenting at this point.

But, yeah, I don't know. She just decided after three years that she was done and called it quits. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry. Me too. It kind of came out of nowhere. I really did not see it coming. And her parents and my parents and really nobody thought coming.

And I think she's going through her own issues. Yeah. Yeah, but there's also something about not being able to hold your baby every night of the week that it's hard to breathe, right? I get that. It is. Yeah, I'm sorry, man. Is it final, Brian, the divorce? No, it will be final next month.

Okay, so terms and everything with the house, all of that is completed? No. Okay, so terms and everything with the house, like all of that is completed? No, I mean, technically we still, we filed the court documents and all that stuff. We just have to go to a final hearing. She was signing the house over to me. Well, and maybe you pause that. I know, that's what I'm wondering.

And say I'm going to sell it and y'all are going to split the cost of you getting out of the mortgage. And you and or your attorney can make a case for, I can't afford this on my current salary, so I'm gonna have to sell it. And since she's the one who left, then I'm gonna ask her to bear the entire

or at least half of the burden of selling this house and getting out of it. Yeah, keeping it, Brian, was probably an emotional knee-jerk reaction for you. But now that stuff is settling and it's not finalized, I mean, I would, it's an option for sure. Because yeah, calling the show, running the numbers, you can't afford it unless your income bumps up to eight to nine grand a month. But besides that, it's not worth it. So I would

figure out a way out. Rachel, everybody who gets divorced, it just feels so common. Yeah. Everybody I talk to underestimates how disruptive and how destructive it is. Just blows up everything. So difficult. Brian, thanks for the call. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. And we are so excited. We said here in the first segment that we have a lobby full of attendees for our Money and Marriage getaway this weekend.

And we're so excited to announce the fall weekend event our Money and Marriage getaway this weekend. And we're so excited to announce the fall weekend event of Money and Marriage. Running it back. Coming back in 2025. So these are three incredible days to hang out with your spouse here in Nashville. And you'll join myself and John for a long weekend. And we're going to dive into some great content around money and around marriage relationships all of it and we do live Q&A's we interact a lot I just feel like there's like this this energy about this event that is so fun it is such a fun weekend and we're pumped to do it this weekend and pumped that it is coming again this fall so if you go to ramseysolutions.com slash events we are so excited. Oh,

it's November 6th through 8th. I was trying to find the dates. So November 6th through 8th, 6th through 8th, it is here in Nashville. Early bird pricing is happening right now. Tickets start at $749. So get yours before prices go up because they will continue to go up. And we even have some limited VIP tickets with a meet and greets and some other fun stuff. So those are available as well. And by the way, we intentionally keep this at about half the price of what weekend retreats are. And we intentionally, like we could shove another 1500 people in this auditorium. We intentionally undersell it. So we like as a team, we choose to make less money

so we can get people in here that when they leave, it's not just three days of talking to somebody. It's three days of like, you and I are both married. We're trying to figure this thing out too. It's everybody in a room figuring this thing out together. It's my favorite thing that I'm a part of. It's awesome. Yeah, it's so, so fun.

So again, excited to announce some new dates. November 6th through the 8th of 2025. And they dropped us right smack in the middle of deer season for a whole weekend. Oh, so sorry. Which is super not cool. We did not consult John's hunting schedule. That's how dedicated I am to this thing. Wow.

What a selfless servant you are. Like a public servant, just being here with all of us in November. Thank you, John. Listen, my family will starve, but marriages will be saved. That's right. That's all we want. That's all we want. Oh, man.

So, so fun. All right. Let's go to Elizabeth in Philadelphia. Hi, Elizabeth. Welcome to the show. Hi. How are you both? We are doing great. How can we help?

Well, thank you for taking my call. So I'll cut to the chase. I'm a licensed realtor. I'm working towards my broker's license while I'm in class now, but I have chosen this past year to stay at home with our son and I'm feeling some regret about staying home and I'm struggling with how to be content in that decision. How can I make peace with this choice and still pursue my career goals without feeling like I'm not contributing enough financially? Okay, so that's what I was going to ask. What's the discontentment over? Is it that you're bored at home? Is it that you miss your career, that you feel guilt, that you're not bringing in money? Where is this coming from?

I think it's a mix. I've been in the mental health field since I graduated college and always had that job as director role and had a consistent paycheck. Real estate came into my life about nine years ago and that was always bonus. So that was always on the side and when I eventually have a family, I can focus on that and, you know, and so all we have as a side hustle, my husband's in mortgages. It's been a rollercoaster last couple of years, but with the hustles, you know, side hustles and so forth, we've saved some money and, and, you know, my son's only two, uh, we both agreed I can, you know,

continue to focus on real estate and stay at home. So I guess that's been a challenge for me. I'm always on the go going to work. Um, and, and so I just, I'm having a hard time with that although it's a very it's a wonderful thing I'm still technically working but I guess that's just not clicking you know for me if that makes sense no absolutely you know I think it's I think it's hard when you go from one speed to the other it can it does feel like whiplash and this need to feel like what felt normal is no longer normal and it's not comfortable because of that. And so I do wonder, Elizabeth, because you're a high producer. I can hear it in your personality. You like productivity. You like to do things. And so I'm wondering for you, number one, is there a level of a hybrid you know i mean i think

it's okay to always um decide okay this isn't what i was thinking it was going to be and make a different decision right no one's no one's holding you captive to stay home full time unless you and your husband agree like that's a value of ours and you want to keep that value longer but i'm like in my head you can always you can always kind of shuffle around and say okay I've been trying this it's not working maybe I go part-time it doesn't have to be an all or nothing stay home completely or work you know 80 hours a week or something that hybrid or even the routine around the home how can you make it mirror your productivity so you at least feel like yeah I'm still staying at home that's what i wanted to

do but it's still matching your personality does that make sense it makes it makes total sense and believe me i'll i'll make there's never a moment where i'm sitting and i wonder if that's an issue is that an issue though yeah that's where john will come my friend ian simpkins says um if busyness is your drug rest will feel like stress and i'm talking to two moms so i i cannot stand when dudes are like all right here's ladies here's what you're feeling i'm not doing that at all but i want to pose these questions um you have entered into what i think from the outside looks like the great, um, guilt factory that is modern motherhood. And there was a whole bunch of people that told you, if you drink like a man, earn like a man, like if you buy into that nonsense, by the way,

men kill themselves more, they die younger. Like if you buy into that track that you'll quote unquote feel a certain way. And then there's this other side of it that is, how dare you do that? You've got this kid at home, moms who outsource childcare or some sort of like lizard person or less than, and you thought, okay, I'm going to quit all of this. And it's going to quote unquote feel a certain way. And in both situations, you went with you. And so if you've been running for something for a long time, or you run and move as a way to try to outrun ghosts that have been hounding you since you're a little kid, if you're constantly on the move, yeah, sitting at home and facing the fact, can we just all say this parents, parenting can be super boring.

It can be like catastrophically boring. There's only so much cha-cha in getting thrown up on and washing bottom. I mean, it's- It's mundane. Yeah, it is. It's just over and over. It's a complete selflessness versus coming to work and interacting with other adults.

Yes. You know what I mean? Like it is a complete giving of yourself. Yes. Completely, yes. So I think, yeah, what Rachel said, I think is so important is none of these decisions are forever. And if you and your husband hold them lightly and say, okay, we're going to try this for six months. And then

you be honest about, I'm kind of going bananas. I need to go talk to a therapist. I need a group of friends. By the way, I think every stay at home mom needs to have a gang. This idea that women go home and you're stuck in a house with a crying baby. It's never happened in human history. And we tell moms, y'all are the problem. That's insane, right? So you've got to get a gang. All that stuff.

Does any of this ring true? Oh, 100%. And I think what has recently stopped, and this is, tell me if you need me to stop, but I was always contributing to my 401k. Now it's like, well, I can only do that. has recently stopped. Like, and this is, tell me if you need me to stop, but you know, I was always contributing to my 401k. Now it's like, well, I can only do that.

That's on pause. My husband does it. He has his 401k. It's like certain things have stopped, right? But we have financially, but like put that security in. So, you know,

we can hold off on that for a little bit. Hey Elizabeth, contributing to a human being is infinitely more valuable than a 401k. You're okay. You're okay. Yeah.

Yes. And that doesn't mean getting barfed on isn't any less fun. So much of our worth is... Financial. It's a number. It is poured into that. And it is this value of,

here's what I bring in from a dollars and cents perspective. And even that, even you mentioning the 401k, Elizabeth, that is ingrained in you. What are you worth? And that with a number that's insane and unwinding that I think is going to be a really important part of this journey for you because for so often again I'm going to say women because I'll speak for myself that are proactive you're productive you do things there is a value you it's like it can be like a drug you You get something out of it.

There's a cause and effect and I get to see it. I've got to prove that I have words. It feels good. When all that stops and there's silence there, that's the monster you have to face. There's no silence. There's just, can I have a snack? Give yourself some grace, Elizabeth, for sure.

It's one of the hardest limbbo's for a mom. And I feel that every day between the kids and the job. I get it. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything.

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try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. And as we've mentioned, every segment where we're going to, because they're fantastic. We have an incredible crowd here today at Ramsey Solutions. And as you can watch the show live from the lobby on the glass, right next to the lobby, right in front of us as well, is the debt-free stage. And people that stand on the stage do a debt-free scream.

And today we have Tommy and Rebecca on the stage. Welcome, you guys. Hey, how you doing? Doing great. So glad that you're here. All right. Where. Hey, how you doing? Doing great. So glad that you're here. All right. Where are y'all in from? California.

Corona, California. Well, you can't get out of debt if you're from California. That's true. In Corona, California. That's pretty fun. Okay, you guys. So you're from California. Came in.

Are you guys here for the weekend? Yeah, we're doing the Money in Marriage event. Amazing. So great. Okay, so how much debt did you guys pay off? We? Yeah, we're doing the Money in Marriage event. Amazing. So great. Okay, so how much debt did you guys pay off? We paid off $644,000. Oh my gosh. Okay, so what does that include?

Dang, Gina. We're weird people. You paid off the house? Yes, you did. Okay, how much of the $640,000 was the house? Or was that it? It was the whole mortgage. So paid off the house completely.

Oh my gosh. Okay, how long did that take uh three years three years and what kind of money were you making during that time um joint 350 000 okay oh my gosh you guys okay that still doesn't cover i mean y'all we had savings okay so part of the process was uh letting go of the savings. I was more of the hoarder because I came from really humble beginnings. And so I felt like having a large safety net made me feel warm and fuzzy in that security blanket. So when Tommy got me into the Financial Peace University, it was kind of like he had to explain, babe, this is crazy what we're paying in interest on the mortgage. Yeah, for sure. So you were the math nerd.

Yeah. Running all the numbers. Yeah, I was big into Ramsey, watching it all the time. But we purchased the house right as we got married three years ago. We were a blended family. We have three daughters between us. And I was looking at the amortization schedule, and I just couldn't believe the amount of money that we were going to end up paying. We bought it on a 30 year,

so we were not really on the plan. And once I was realizing that, I started kind of talking to her more and more about it. We need to pay it off. And at first I probably turned Dave's name into a cuss word in the household. Okay. So how long have you guys been married? Three years. Three years. Okay. When did all this conversation about selling the house start? Before marriage? I think shortly after we bought the house, I was looking and I started getting anxiety and stressed out about how much money we were going to spend. So I started kind of trying to

work my way into it and talking to her. Oh, he came in hot. And I was like, what? I was like, you are crazy. What are you talking about? Like everyone has a mortgage. Like this is no big deal. But as we went through Financial Peace University, I was like, oh, this, this kind of makes sense. Like, okay. All right. I think we could do this. But it was kind of more of getting me on board because it was it was it was crazy i haven't known anyone to pay off their house so to me it was crazy okay tell i want to i want to hear from you i want to hear about your you have a tension that i think so many americans have that we don't talk about it this both survivalist like you grew up without a whole lot, me too. Like, and so you kind of know this can all go away.

And at the same time, you get that job and you're kind of successful and you get to have all the stuff that nobody ever, you were never able to have. And so you live in this constant tension of it's all going to go away. And so maybe you have a deep freezer full of, I don't know, hot dogs or whatever. But then also you're just buying stuff all the time. Tell me about that tension that you lived with. Well, for me, it's, you know, it's a different lifestyle. We just, we do really well and we're very blessed.

But at the same time, we still have those same traditional feelings. Like we both wear socks with holes in them, you know, like we don't, we're both the savers. And so it's crazy to have so much money and income and be able to pay off the house when we're still like, you know, the saver type. And it's almost like your emotions haven't caught up to the math.

No. And like we just sit in the reality of what it's really reality. We just paid off the house last month. Cause we, we knew he booked this money in marriage and we were like we gotta pay it off and do this death rate screen and and so it hasn't even sunk in yet like this is still so fresh for us that it's like this is crazy have you had have you had the checks deposit and you don't have a mortgage to send them to yet yeah no we had one yeah we had we got to skip one house payment by the time of coming here so it was like it's the next one that y'all will be weird and then next month you'll look at each other and be like i think we're rich it's so crazy yeah okay so tell me what because i love that it's

been three years this has been like a short journey for you guys i mean for the most part and so when you went from okay is this a good a good idea? I don't know. It's not that big of a deal. No one pays off their house. Kind of that normal mindset, right? Which is very normal. Tell me about like the emotions between just that, like, okay, I don't know, to actually having it paid off. Yeah, I think for me, I was always like, oh, no, we need the mortgage to have the tax write off. Right. And he's like, what are you talking about? And then to get to this side, it's like, oh, we don't have the mortgage anymore.

This is, I mean, the way I would describe it is just mind-blown. And especially because I don't know anyone else who's paid off the house. And so for us, it's totally, we're the weirdos, like he said. I found out there's a whole bunch of people who've paid their house off.

And it's kind of like the guy at the bar who just says, excuse me, because he knows he can beat up everybody. He didn't have to like bark and prove it. You'll find out there's a whole bunch of people who've paid it off. They just don't feel like they have to talk about it because they have peace in their life. They haven't approved anybody anymore. Right. And then they can go buy socks. They don't have holes in them.

It's fantastic. So what's the thing y'all are going to work towards to buy now um no big purchases we want to retire early so we keep we're just both savers so like why not fuel off of that and build towards early retirement will you make a commitment to me and rachel yes before you leave nashville yes y'all here for the money marriage weekend before you leave i like to think of nashville as the sock and underwear capital of america we all go get some socks we'll buy socks i do want to get some cowboy boots actually yes go get a nice pair of boots that's what you guys need saturday evening after the event y'all go downtown you can get 19 pair of boots for like four bucks or whatever get some hats and that'd be fantastic were the, were they part of this? How much did you involve the kids?

So they were involved in the sense of like saving. Like, hey, we need to cut back on eating out. This, you know, that really builds up over time. And they're like, but why? But we did keep this kind of private for ourselves. We wanted to do the journey. And when they're old enough we'll explain it to them and the importance of it but we didn't really get them too deep involved on yes

no that's great that's great i know it's so interesting each family because then those girls as they grow up their normal baseline is like oh yeah it's peace yeah you just have it you just have a paid for house that's what you do you know like with a normal your setting is part of changing that family tree it's not just the financial legacy but it's this mindset of how you view and see money so let me make one more quick observation both of y'all this is marriage number two yes yep the fact that you guys came together and did not just throw your feet up on the couch and say we're just going to give us another whirl but whatever happened in your past y'all entered into this new marriage,

blending a family, which is hard. A picture of your girls came up, just stunning young girls. I mean, brother, you're in for a mess, my man. Yeah, no, I'm a show host. But here's the deal. Y'all put some hurdles in your way immediately, and y'all overcame them.

And so I want y'all to remember back to this point when y'all get sideways with each other, which you will, every marriage does. Y'all can do anything, right? Y'all did it right out of the gate. It's amazing. So proud of you. So great.

All right, you guys, we got Tommy and Rebecca from Southern California. They paid off $640,000, which is their house, in three years, making $350,000. All right, you guys, let's hear a debt-free scream. Count it down. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! Amazing. Time to go sock shop in America. And that's how it's done. God, we don't get a lot of houses. We've gotten some recently. We get some, yeah. But that's the pinnacle.

But they're bucking every trend. California, you can't pay it off. It's impossible. It's this. It takes two people saying, let's just go get this thing done. It's awesome. Three years. Three years.

Incredible. Incredible. Tommy and Rebecca, you guys are amazing. Absolutely amazing. This is The ramsey show what does the future hold for business ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers economic growth or a recession business taxes will go up or down ai will help us work or it will replace us all but there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle,

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And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash ramsey. It's Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Up next, we have Emily from Minneapolis on the show. Hey, Emily, welcome. Hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely.

I am just looking for advice. I'm in a funny situation. Me and my dad were living with my grandmother, and she recently passed away. I'm sorry. Thank you. The situation, I guess, we were looking to buy the house, and I didn't really want to buy it unless it was given to me and that was in conversation but we didn't quite get to it and my dad has always been supported by her and he since she's passed is still not really going to work the reasons why he never really went is

because he's an alcoholic my boyfriend he wanted to buy the house and I'm a big fan. I know you're not supposed to do that. So we did start the process of the mortgage lending and now my boyfriend doesn't make enough and then my dad's credit is too bad. So it really would only work if all three of us were in on it. But now that my dad still isn't proving to me that he can go to work, I guess I'm just looking for financial advice what to do here. Please, please, please, please don't do what you're about to do. Yeah. Please don't do that. You know in your guts that this is not a good idea. Please don't. And I know

it will be hard. It'll be uncomfortable and your dad will get mad and you're going to feel guilty, all those things. Please don't do this. Yeah. Cause I'm still in debt. My boyfriend is still in debt. Do we just buy a different house? Think of it this way. The bank's job is to lend money.

And they looked at your boyfriend and looked at your dad and they said, y'all situation is so uncertain and unsafe that we can't, we will not do business with you. Please don't like, not to mention that you get the, you know, the mess and the legal mess of buying a house with a boyfriend and how to untangle all that mess.

And I know you're going to be together forever because we're in love. I know, but we wouldn't have a show if that didn't work out all the time. And then you throw a dad with some significant challenges, man. It is just a recipe for you being just destroyed financially, your romantic relationship ending up in ash, and then you and your father having no,

I mean, you've tangled business with substance abuse, with lifetime of you two having challenges, with grief. I mean, it's just such a wreck walk away go get an apartment please please please how old are you emily i am 24 yeah no please don't please don't yeah there there are so many so many things in this and in a weird way too emily i feel like sometimes you can call it god you can call it life, you can call it life, whatever you want. There's just closed doors that happen.

And it's like there's closed doors continuing to happen. You didn't have the conversation with your grandma. The bank isn't allowing, you know, your dad to fully have it. And then also then the boyfriend. And then you're going to have to come into play. I mean, like there are all of these things that are stopping you. And, and I think, is it, is it your sentimental, you know, the sentimental idea of owning this house from your grandmother, or is it just, I want to own a house? Like what, give me some of the thought behind it for you.

Right. So this year was, we just got on the, you know, my boyfriend and I were like, Hey, we're going to pay off our debt. We were going to get engaged and buy a house this year. But then when this happened, I guess now it just kind of feels like, I know my dad has bad credit, and when he gets this money from once the house is sold, there's three other brothers, so he'll probably get like $50,000. I know if he gets that, he's just going to drain it. He can't go buy a house. So I guess part of it kind of felt like an obligation to's just going to drain it he can't go buy a house so I guess part of it

kind of felt like an obligation to what's going to happen to him I know that's not my responsibility and I thought it would be easier to move on until it really came to like I don't know what he is going to do you know this is a really really hard thing for me to say yeah but you can't save your dad in this situation. No, it's not my responsibility. I understand. And I'm glad that, I mean, I know the cool thing these days is just to write off your parents. I don't believe in that.

And I believe hanging in there as long as you can outside of really abusive situations. And the thought of taking care of my parents, that consumes a lot of my thinking. So that's not a bad thing. This isn't you helping him with bad financial decisions, and this isn't you helping an elderly parent. This is you thinking that maybe now he's going to look at you and say, I'm proud of you. He's not going to.

Yeah, no, you're right. And you've been looking for that since you were a little bitty girl, wondering why is he picking the bottle over me, and it has nothing'm proud of you. He's not going to. Yeah, no, you're right. And you've been looking for that since you were a little bitty girl wondering why is he picking the bottle over me and has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the fact that he's got demons, man. And alcohol for him works right now. And he's going to have to walk through that. Yeah, I understand. And I hate that for you. I hate it for you. I do. I really do, man. And Emily too, I would give you a little bit of word of caution with And I hate that for you. I hate it for you. I do. I really do, man. And Emily, too, I would give you a little bit of word of caution with your boyfriend and even just the mixes of finances.

Because as you were saying, we were trying to pay off our debt and all of this. Keep everything separate. And if you're working to pay off debt, that's incredible. But be paying off your debts. How much debt do you have? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Me doing mine, him doing his.

Perfect. Okay, good. Good. Yes. That's great. The number of people who call the show and one, she's paid off all his debt and then he finds some new hot young thing at the water park or whatever weird, like, you know what I mean?

So yeah, you pay off yours. Y'all can be each other's cheerleaders. Y'all can high five each other, but yeah, I don't pay off his debt yet. Okay. Okay. And so you guys recommend apartment, save to buy the house, then get engaged? No, no, no. Get engaged whenever.

Yeah, get engaged today. Yeah, I mean, if you guys are doing it, just do it now. Get engaged. Get married. Okay. Yeah, I would be completely debt-free and have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and then save at least a 5% for a down payment. Okay, 5% for a down payment.

Okay. And so that's probably going to be, what do you make? What was that? How much money do you make? I make, I think it's like 35 after taxes. How much do you owe in debt? I have one auto loan and it was for my grandma actually to get her boat around. She bought a boat her last summer because she said life is too short and she spent her funeral money. So it's a truck. It's a $14,000 truck. Can you sell it?

I'm thinking about it. Yeah. I would sell it this weekend yeah have you looked into um if you if you sold a private seller what what it would come to i haven't yet i think this all kind of just hit me today of like okay well i'm not going to be able to do this yeah for sure emily no and i'm so glad you called so i would just go on kelly blue book type in the information you know it'll ask you some questions and just get, don't do, don't do a dealer, you know, do a private sale. You'll get more that way. And yeah, and that would be huge.

You're free. Then go buy a $5,000 Camry that will run forever. Yes. And then you're off to the races. And can we, I want you to see this. You have a real life picture. Most don't have this. You have a real life picture of what it looks like to not take care of your finances,

to burn yourself to the ground trying to prop somebody else up who's not interested in your help, and then asking your granddaughter to buy a car so that you, in your last few months and years, can YOLO. You have a picture of that. I want you to try to consider what it would feel like to not owe anybody any money, to

have your own house, to have a job where you're making more than $35,000. Savings in the bank. You got savings in the bank. You get what I'm saying? Peace. Peace, peace, peace, peace. Let's all for peace. Yeah.

Emily, stay on the line. Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you Financial Peace University. This is our nine lesson course and you can just binge those videos just to, stay on the line. Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you Financial Peace University. This is our nine lesson course. And you can just binge those videos just to kind of get the basics. Make boyfriend watch it. Yeah. Yeah. You guys sit down together and watch it. Seriously. That was already the plan. Good, good, good. And we'll give you every dollar premium so that you can start really working this feeling of what John's saying, kind of painting this picture of, yeah, what does this look like to actually have a plan for my money? Not only month to month, but in the next three, four, five,

six years. And it's an amazing thing. I mean, it is so possible. And you're 24 years old and you are going to be able to make so many changes. So many changes in this. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm a huge fan. Yeah, no, we're so excited for you. And there's some relational hurdles there, too,

in your life. Yeah, hey, can we make no mistake? This is going to be awful. Yeah. Just say no to the house. Your dad is going to make you feel so guilty and he's going to blame you and you can block him and you cannot respond. But this can be hard.

But just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not the next right thing. Yeah. Emily, thanks for the call. Stay away from water parks, right? I'm telling you, those boys go to water parks and they find new... Oh, my gosh. All right, thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thanks, John, for a great hour, and thank you, America. We'll be back.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. And we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. So give us a call. Talk about your life, your money, anything and everything. Next up. First up. Dude, I money, anything and everything. Next up. First up.

Dude, I'm so happy right now. This is my favorite weekend of the year. I love it. Favorite weekend of the year. It's money marriage weekend and people come from all over planet Earth to hang out with us in Nashville, Tennessee. And if you think we get wheels off like on our individual shows, this particular event is so unhinged.

It's the best. It's the best it's the best of the best a lot of rachel just shaking her head on stage with john just you are the queen of accidental double entendres okay it's it's like your it's like your superpower it happens sometimes all right let's start us off this hour with... Ken Coleman is the king. Always. The king. Number one. Number one in the book, for sure. All right, let's go to Courtney in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Courtney. Welcome to the show.

Hi, how's it going? I hope you guys are doing good. I just have a question about debt consolidation. So I have a vehicle loan that's like over $23,000, and I'm wanting to sell it to an auto dealership, but the options are either lease and get a loan out for maybe $9,000, I can pay off my credit card and have my car also paid off and have that debt gone. Because my ultimate goal is to be able to get a house and just get rid of some of that debt. Okay. So the car, you owe $23,000 on it.

And have you looked at other options like private sale and what you could get? Because usually you can't get as great of a deal through a dealership. Yeah, I haven't looked at private sale. I mean, there's a dealership right now. My car, they're offering like around $20,000. Okay. That's pretty

good. I'm concerned about how long it'll take to do a private sale while I'm putting more mileage on the car. If they're offering you $20,000, then I bet you can get $27,500 for it. $27,500? I just made that number up, but I guarantee you they are low-balling you like swing low sweet chariots. are so that they are they they send these emails out that they have with their with the and they're fishing for desperate people yeah yeah if you wait two weeks you get this thing sold private sale okay okay um but which so should i just stay away from

the debt consolidation or yeah i would because it's not going to really fix your problem, because how much do you have in credit card debt that you're wanting to use some of this other loan that you're going to take out, right, to pay off the credit card debt? Yeah. And how much is that? How much is the credit card debt? So the credit card is about $4,000.

$4,000, okay. And how much do you make a year? Around $70,000. Around $70,000, okay, great around 70 okay great okay honestly Courtney if I were you I I mean I think John's right I think you could probably break even on this car if not maybe make a thousand or so so I would I would Kelly Blue Book it and really look into private sales um just to sell to an individual and I think you're going to get more doing that again the dealerships always lowball you because they have to turn around and resell it. And so they have to

make their margin on it. And so instead of all of that, you get the profit instead of them. But they're also going to turn around and resell it, but you kind of unveiled their plan. They're going to make a little bit of money on that resale where they're going to make most of their money is taking somebody who bought a car and trying to trade them into a lease yes that's it too Courtney they're trying to make a lot and you've heard that when you drive a new car off the lot it instantly loses money you you know that one right yeah it definitely did it went down like 10 that's right all a lease is is a it's a awesome scam that car companies came up with to get regular consumers just to pay for that depreciation. So they get their car back in two years.

Somebody has paid the depreciation and now they can turn on and sell it for what it's worth and they win. Don't play that game. Okay. It's just they are looking for desperate people. Yeah. Courtney, do you have any money saved at all? I don't. Like, I just made a big move, honestly. And I had, like, life happen.

And then that's kind of what happened. Sure. I had to buy a new car. Yeah, because, yeah. And, you know, and I don't think you're in, like, you're not in a desperate situation. So if I were you, Courtney, I would make it a goal, get an extra job, get a side hustle, and I would make it a goal get an extra job get a side

hustle and i would make it a goal to save five to six thousand dollars i mean in the next like four months like make a big goal try to make a thousand fifteen two thousand a month extra and when you do that you'll have you'll have that margin go and buy a five thousand dollar honda civic sell this car for and maybe you'll break even on it, right? I mean, the worst, it's going to be $23,000. If they're offering you $20,000, $23,000, maybe you'll get another extra $1,000 or two. And I don't even mind if you have to go to a local credit union and take out a loan for $2,500 to get out of it. Because then you only owe $2,500 versus $2,000.

Is your credit pretty shot? Well, no, my credit, I think the car is so new on my i've only had it for a couple of months but yeah you're not underwater on it so breaking even you know i mean there's a win yeah for sure for sure um and then yeah and then corny you'll be able to work and pay off this pay off the credit card uh the four thousand in three or four months i mean your whole life could look different, honestly, in the next eight to nine months. And I don't think, yeah, the debt consolidation loan,

I mean, that's just moving around the interest. And you're not going to be in this long anyway. So for the long game, from the math perspective, it's not going to make that much of a difference. And majority of the time with debt consolidation, not as much in this example, but for a lot of people, they try to shuffle around their debt to fix a math problem. We're realizing that so much of this is a behavior problem, not a math problem. So you, Courtney, going and doing it and understanding like, oh,

yeah, I can totally pay this off. I think you'll do it faster in that way than trying to kind of shuffle the debt around. Can I ask you a personal question just between me and you and a couple of million people listening? Sure. Why did you move? For a job. I got an actual, like almost a $16,000 increase and I just, everything was great. I had my money saved for my house.

Everything was going and then something popped up on on my phone that I didn't know about. I was getting an apartment. And then I just couldn't get the house at that time as well. So I started shoving out money left and right next to me. I know my savings was drained. There you go. So sometimes when you have a big transition or two or three, or you mentioned, it's just things got chaotic real fast.

All of a sudden, you look up and the smoke clears.'re like what happened right i'm all super stable and then this thing happens the temptation is i want to fix it all right this second it's like somebody who has like a really just bad gets off the rails with their diet on a weekend and they think they're going to solve it by just starving themselves mond, Tuesday, and Wednesday. And what they end up doing is creating such a teeter-totter inside their body that they end up overeating Thursday and Friday, right? So the hardest thing for you is just like you make great money. You're clearly awesome at what you do. And you've had a little bit of chaos in your life. You've transitioned, you've moved, all this stuff, just do the next right move. Like get rid of the car. Don't get in bed with any, I said that kind of weird. Don't take out

any loans. Don't get in with, don't get in with any consolidation. You'll pay this $4,000 off in no time. You'll have your savings back in no time. And then you'll be back on your feet. Like Rachel said, in nine months, this whole thing is behind you. So just do the next right move. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when

you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSConsumeracgage.com. That's churchillemortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Rent with Tennessee 37027. Today's question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. YRefi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to

pay. Now you guys, private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally May. So to learn more about this custom refinancing option and a lump sum payoff option that you could qualify for for after 24 months, go to Y Refi dot com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y R E F Y dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right. Before I read today's question out loud, I need everybody to relax. James, this may be the end of the show because this is a, you're going to get canceled question because I have strong opinions on this. Today's question comes from Renee in Iowa. Oh, geez. Here we go.

My husband and I are on baby step two with about $50,000 left to pay off. We earn around $250,000 a year. Our question is regarding how much we spend for our 13-year-old daughter's travel softball team. Between club dues, private lessons, weekend travel, food, hotels, and I could go on and on,

it's about $1,000 a month. Rachel, $1,000. We're doing well, paying off our debt, and I don't want to squash her passion for sports. Then take her out of travel sports. Because she's one of the top players in the state.

She still will be. She's a hard working kid and doesn't take our support for granted but i feel like i'm breaking the rules for paying off debt and baby step two what are your thoughts on this oh this is a this is this is the killer question the knife in the heart question our debt is not her fault. So I feel like it's unfair to take this from her just to save some money. I'm going to have probably a less harsher take than you will. Go for it. Okay, you make $250,000 a year. You have $50,000 in debt. So cut everything for six months and pay off the debt in my head. And then you're fine. And then you pay the softball stuff and you're fine. Do you know what cut everything for six months and pay off the debt. Like in my head.

And then you're fine. And then you pay the softball stuff and you're fine. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not like- Yeah, my problem with this has nothing to do with math. I know, I know. But it's the debt. Yes, yes.

Make a quarter million dollars, pay off your debts. Yeah, that's so like in my head, I'm like the thousand dollar softball thing. Yes. Is it slowing down your debt snowball? Sure. But I think there's way other problems out there for making $250,000 and not being able to pay off 50. Like in my head, I'm like-

Yeah. You're taking home 18 to 20,000 bucks a month, making a quarter million dollars. And you take five or 7,000 of that a month, pay off 50 grand in six to 10 months. Yeah. Get an extra job or whatever. Like, do you know what I mean? Like you, yeah, to do it. I don't like the, oh my gosh, this is this is the thing i'm like i think there's other issues going on besides the softball thing yes i would i would be shocked and renee i can be wrong i'd be shocked if there's not a whole bunch of other expenses that we quote unquote have to do yeah it's that feeling or i'm gonna use her words we're gonna squash our kids passion it's not her fault so it's unfair all this stuff so here's what i i i spent my career i was i did i

did travel sports at the in their first iteration um i was a college athlete for a couple years like i i i'm my whole life has been around athletics and i love it and i've got to sit some of my buddies are collegiate trainers that's what they do for a living I also work with some of the top physical fitness folks in the world like so I this is I love this I love sports I love all of it and we are destroying our kids at the altar of every weekend private lessons club dues performance and we say things like she's one of the best players in the state great that doesn't mean you spend a thousand bucks a month right if you go ask people who work with professional athletes and even the top collegiate

athletes are going to tell you let your kids have time off make Make them play other sports. Go do other fun things. Go camping. Have weekends. Have a childhood. I was going to say a whole rounded childhood. That's right. And the problem with this is it's so segmented, so early in life too. That's right.

And I've got collegiate trainers and collegiate medical staff, friends of mine, that said they see repetitive joint use injuries in 18-year-olds that have always been reserved for geriatric patients. Shoulders, knees right in this intense specialization and the intense focus and so i want every parent this like you said it's not about money it's not about money if you make 75 000 bucks and let me put it this way everything is on the table you're trying to get out of debt it's an emergency for your family And I do like kids having some skin in the game. And moms and dads, you're not robbing from your children if you don't shell out $1,000 a month for soccer or for softball

or for whatever the thing is. You're not robbing the childhood. And you know what I hear in this too, Renee? I mean, this was what, five, six sentences all around this. It's guilt. It's guilt. There's a level of this idolization in her. I'm like, Renee, chill. She's 13.

If Renee was like, yeah, I mean, it's fun. It's fine. But she's like, no, no. It's this pressurized momentum for the parents going on to the children. Yes, and here's the ultimate problem. Our kids are being made the center point of the family, of the house.

Your 13-year-old knows that her life dictates every weekend, every evening of the week, all of the driving, the money. They know that, and kids cannot hold. They're not strong enough to hold the entire weight of a family. That's the parent's job. Teach your kids to be disappointed. Teach them, hey, me and your dad got into a whole bunch of debt. And so all of us have to sacrifice. And they're going to learn

resilience and frustration. And your 13 year olds will say things like, oh, I hate you. They're 13. Right. There's a reason we don't let 13 year olds buy guns or beer or vote because they're 13 right and so if you are playing this it's unfair and i don't want to get mad and i don't want to take their passion you won't do any of that stuff you won't do any of that stuff you will give your kid a stable as dr becky kennedy says a sturdy presence to anchor into and that's way more important than shelling out private lessons and traveling, hotels and all this madness. It is stone madness. And if you talk to any professional coach, they'll tell you, geez Louise, man, do something else. Go play soccer.

Go play basketball. Go take a karate class. Go play guitar. Do other things that make you a well-rounded human being yes well and i even think you know the well-roundedness i was even hearing some dads talk and they were like you know their goal is to go do something outdoors once a month with the with the kids with the boys right because they were like if you look up it's it's a sport sport sport sport sport and i don't know why i don't know if it's like this area or if it's all of

america it's turned into but it is a of amer or if it's all of America. It's turned into all of America. And here's the thing. I have great sympathy for parents, Rachel, because they're told at four, hey, your kid's pretty fast. Or how good does it feel when someone's like, hey, your kid made this team? And you're like, yeah. All right, it's going to cost $900 because I see something in your kid. And if they get on this team, then next year they can get on this team.

By fifth grade, they can get on that team. And then in eighth grade, they they get on this team then next year they get on this team by fifth grade they can get on that team and then in eighth grade they can get on this and you just got put into a rocket ship that is so expensive i was gonna say and if we just i would love to do like an investigative reporting on how much these leagues make and the league owners they it is a money making machine it's a printing press it It is. And every parent's like, take my money, take my money, take my money.

I mean, seriously, it is, it is wild. I would love to see a parent who is awesome, who would be willing to go back and say, okay, here's how much money we spent.

And I would love to just give it to you or George or Jade and have y'all run it through. If y'all invested this, just put it in a 529 or put it in a, in a Roth for your kid. So how much of all of this from your perspective, how much of it is the kid that's like, no, I want it, I want it, I want it versus the parents that's saying, do this, do this, do this? 13-year-olds, nine-year-olds, seven-year-olds, they're going to want Twinkies and Skittles and to stay up late and to play games and have other recognition from

other adults. Kids are just kids. I heard somebody say recently that I just love, I don't want to hear another person say, quote unquote, the kids these days. They haven't changed. Kids are kids. They're always going to try to push the boundaries. They're always going to say, I want the next shiny thing. That's because they're kids. What's changed is adults who are worshiping their children's feelings and they don't have their own psychology. They weren't trying to relive their childhood. Everybody's Uncle Rico. If I had just gotten my shot. But I think the bigger thing is the more honest take is parents are so worried about how their kids feel on a minute by minute basis that they end up with 19 year olds that can't pick up their

arms and that have no resilience and no, no psychology for disappointment or frustration. Well, and it's funny too. I'm like, as a parent with three little ones in this, I mean, literally they're like, oh, well, if they don't do this and they're not on travel by fourth or fifth grade, then they're not coming to the middle school team. Then they're not gonna make the high school team. Then they're going to do drugs and they're going to die. Like that's like what it feels like happens and you're like, oh my gosh. Right. my gosh. And it's categorically not true, period. Welcome back. Again, we have a big weekend here for our Money and Marriage event and tickets just came on sale for our November event. We just opened up these dates to the public. So November 6th through 8th,

you can come out to Nashville with your spouse and come hang out with us. The greatest marriage retreat on earth. I'm a little bit biased, but I think it's the best one that's out there. We have so much fun this weekend, you guys. It's always great conversations, great hanging out time. We really pack in an incredible

weekend. So you can get your tickets for the fall event November 6th through 8th at ramsaysolutions.com slash events. Up next, we have Susie in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Susie. Welcome to the show. Hi. Hello. Hello. Yes. Thanks for calling in. How can we help? So I want to know how can I go on in the ways I can trust my husband after he had moved all our savings without telling me I discovered it and he keeps on making financial decisions without telling me or asking me. Where do you take your savings? making financial decisions without telling me or asking me. Where do you take your savings?

Well, he moved it to another account, and that, well, part of it, that has higher interest, and some of it went into some investments. But like, that's not a concern concern because we kind of talked about it but it's just not the only in the last two years not the only time that he did things and i discovered it and well i guess there's two things here one is you can't like you're asking yourself to do something um like you're asking yourself to find trust within yourself and the person you're trying to trust continues to violate the trust and so

if you want to re-establish trust then you have to put down on on the table lay it out there here's what must be true for me to trust you again and we're gonna have to we're gonna have to practice and we're gonna have to go step by step to reestablish trust and then the other person has to participate yeah so like relationally I know what to ask of him like I want I know like first you do this this and this and then we can like work together and you know i'll so i can start trusting you after these steps would it make you financially i don't know what to ask of him because i thought we had like a joint bank bank account and it turns out like probably i don't know what a joint bank account is and what like what i ask of what should i ask of him to be sure that money doesn't disappear like all of a sudden?

That I have some... Yeah, I mean, you need to have a spreadsheet that has every account on it and what every password for every account is. And you should both be sitting down with an investment professional, a smart investor pro as we call them here, and they're walking both of you through your retirement accounts and how much money you have in those accounts.

And you should know how much cash y'all have. I mean, all this stuff you should know. Susie, what does he say his reasoning is for doing this without telling you? When you find out and you say, oh my gosh, you moved the money, what does he say? He couldn't explain it actually he

started saying well because you because you and i'm like i i stopped like my mind shut off i stopped even listening because like what do you mean because you you, you did it. You didn't, like he's saying, well, he's trying to put the guilt on me somehow. Well, the worst thing is that for 15 years, like money wasn't something that we ever had fights or about. Did you ever talk about it in those 15 years? And you saw everything, you had access to everything and you knew where everything was for 15 years. Yeah. And there was no fights. And he would always say, we would discuss it or sometimes like, he'd say, I want to do this or I did this.

And I'm like, okay. So he always said what's going on. And then he just. Is he in trouble? Is he making, is he making, is he struggling with gambling or is he seeing somebody else? Like, where's this money going? Um, I want to say that it's not going, I don't think he has problems with gambling, but, and he, I don't know actually what's going on. Cause this is like, um, the last two years there's been a series of betrayals. Okay. So here's the thing.

Here's what you need to do. Yeah. Go ahead. So there's been other betrayals, Susie, in your marriage? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. On his end or your end?

I know like relationally what to ask, but then how do I make myself financially safe? Have you caught him having an affair? He was in an emotional affair with somebody okay um my guess is if there's missing money or suddenly money's getting moved around all over the place that if you went in and did a forensic deep dive into that and forensics just means you went and you went line by line to see what is stuff's being spent you're going to find stuff spent on flowers and hotel rooms and things like that it's just very rare for things to just be bebopping along along for 15 years. Everybody's on the same page. And then suddenly all the money gets moved and you don't know where it is. Some of it's getting spread out, all that kind of stuff.

If I'm you, or if you're my sister, you're my mom, I would tell you, pull your credit report today to find out what loans have been taken out with your social security number. I would freeze my credit. And then I would tell my husband, we're going to have a meeting with every single account, every dollar amount. I want to know what is in all of our retirement accounts. I want to know what's in all of our savings account, what's in our checking account and accounting for where all the cash actually is. And it's just going to be a sheet. And by the way, it's not hard to do. I've got one, my wife has one. And Rachel, it's pretty common that somebody just instantly gets into a mess. And I see it more and more with online gambling over the last few years.

Yes, yes. Well, usually when there's, yes, when there's shuffling around like this, and then suddenly there was transparency. Now there's not transparency. There's a red flag. Something else is going on. It's the biggest waving on top of a mountain red flag there is. Yeah, yeah.

So sorry, Susie. Yeah, and I would say even from a relational standpoint, I don't feel like you guys have probably fully healed from that, obviously, because even the way he's speaking to you or what you told us, he's shifting the blame. The gas lights are burning brightly. Yeah, I mean, seriously, like it is pretty wild. So, yeah, I would be, yeah, I mean, it is so difficult

because if it's not under your name, he could have a secret account that you never know about either. So there is a level of his transparency that he has to come forward as well. But you can pull things on in your name. If you know the banks you guys are banking at together, whatever name account or whatever account is in your name,

you will have access to you will be able to see it and then asking him to do the same because i'll be curious as you do your digging on the side and he brings information if his doesn't line up with what you even found right then then there's another you know distrust there but this is um suzy usually with these types of situations we always say around here and it is true it's at this point it's not it's not a it's not a money thing it's a marriage issue yeah big time because of the marriage issues it's coming out as this money issue and so um yeah i mean you guys have you have a road of healing i mean you really do and if you guys want to well you got a road of fact finding for for the time that's fair

yes yeah yeah and you're not getting the full story. Yeah. And that's really, really difficult and always scary. I'm like, it is the betrayal. That's always so difficult. Yeah. So difficult. So yeah, I'm sorry, Susie. Thanks for the call. I hope that helps.

And I hope it does give you some empowerment to go and to look. And I think for some, I'll say women who do allow the husbands just to basically do majority of everything when it comes to the money, this is one of the issues that we find because you do feel overwhelmed of like, oh my gosh, I don't even know where to start. I don't even know what to look for or what to ask because you were saying that, Susie. I don't even know what to ask from a financial situation. So again, just to repeat and help you in this, I mean, it is asking checking accounts, it's asking savings accounts, high yield accounts, money market accounts, investments, retirement accounts. Any outstanding debts? Any debts that are there, yes. And what John said too,

pulling your credit report and seeing if any debts have been taken out. But that's kind of the, those are like kind of the categories to walk through to ask him and then for you to go in this investigative mode. Yeah. And let me flip it on its head to the men out there. You are not helping your wife have any sort of peace in her life by saying, I've got it. I've got it. Right. sort of peace in her life by saying I've got it I've got it right at some regular interval whether it's every month or every quarter twice a year once a year sit down and say and of course there's somebody who pushes the button and pays the bills or somebody moves the money I get that have some sort of hey just so

we're all the same page here's where everything is and here's where we are that brings so much peace to your house, and it keeps these nightmares from happening. One of the best things that you can do for your money is to get a great tax pro in your corner. Tax season is approaching, and they're going to help advise you to make the best moves for your situation, especially if you've had a big life change or a complicated situation, if you own a small business. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team. All right, up next, we have Ashton in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi, Ashton. Welcome to the show. Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help? Okay. So basically, I own a residential painting company here with my longtime childhood friend. We basically are splitting the profits right down the middle at around 50%, despite me running the business full-time year-round while he's in school. And he only works for about three and a half months out of the year. How'd y'all come to that arrangement, man? You're getting hosed on that deal. Well, I dropped out of school to start the business. And so when we created the partnership, you know, we just made it 50-50. And then we kind of assumed that it was going to be the same setup as when we worked at a different painting company together.

But now, you know, now that we're into it, I'm booking all the work. I paint and run one of the crews year round. I'm expanding the network daily and I'm making most of the gradual improvements to the business. So what's he saying, Ashton? Have you brought this up to him feeling like it's unfair? How has he responded? Yeah. Yeah. We've had multiple conversations about it. And the main argument that he uses is that I currently make or he and I, I guess, both make over six figures. And so why do I need any more money? You know, that's kind of his argument. And he just doesn't back down on it.

Did you guys put in investment up front, equal investment, and that's how you got to the 50-50 partnership? Or did you guys, you guys were just two friends, like, yeah, we'll just open up this together and see what happens. I'd say it's closer to the latter. It really wasn't super expensive to get into the business. And I know that I don't need the extra money to like stay alive. You know, I'll be fine. But my contribution... We're past need a long time

ago. So it's not that. I mean, yeah. No, no, no. Hey, just... Bro, this guy is not your friend. Yeah, he's my business partner. I understand that there's got to be my business partner i understand that he's a bad business partner like i might be right yeah you got to dissolve the same because because any i'm just thinking if one of my buddies came to me and i was in school we had a we had a business and suddenly he was running the whole thing it wouldn't even occur to me just to respond the way he did yeah yeah dude okay so so ashton what would it look like

have you guys um i don't know how it's set up how you guys formalize the business but do you buy them out do you dissolve the business start your own thing like what are you thinking because he's obviously long like long term it's not going to work it's not working yeah he's not who you want to be in business with long term yeah the the assumption is that it's not going to work. It's not working. Yeah. He's not who you want to be in business with long term. Yeah. The assumption is that it's going to kind of work itself out because, you know, once he graduates, he's committed to or verbally committed to coming and working full time for the business, you know, and making up for the fact that I kind of built it from the ground up single handedly. But I don't know if that's going to happen. And I'm only 20. I turned 21 pretty soon. We're doing about half a million in revenue each year.

So for me to just throw this away. Like as a 21-year-old, A, you're dealing with, I wish I had another word for it because it's got romantic connotations and that's not what I mean, but you're dealing with a I wish I had another word for it because it's got romantic connotations and that's not what I mean, but you're dealing with a breakup, dude. You're dealing with a friend who's not treating you the way you treat him. And I wish this wasn't the case for the rest of your life,

but people are going to hurt you for the rest of your life. It's just kind of part of it. And you'll find a group that will ride with you to the end no matter what. But just hear from me and Rachel, what's happening to you is categorically unfair and he's revealing himself as a person who lacks integrity. Or maybe he's 20 and he's just incredibly immature.

But I would not trust him as far as I can see him because he's proven to you he's not a person of character and integrity. And he wants to take the money that you're earning and take it and say, this is mine, just because of some handshake we made. And it's just not accurate. So I wouldn't throw the business away, but I would dissolve the partnership. And I would say, I quit this, I'm going to go open my own business down the street. And I would do exactly what you're doing and make all $300,000 or half a million dollars a year on your own. It's what you're doing anyway, right? Pretty much. Yeah.

I think I guess I just got to call this what it is. What are you worried about? It's not as much as of a worry. I kind of just have like this hope for the future based on our plans and what we've talked about that we're going to be expanding into other industries. And, you know, we're, we're like, we're a really good team, you know, our skills and our attributes kind of compliment each other. You're breaking my heart, brother. You're not. This is like somebody talking to somebody who's

like, I know she cheats on me, but like, we're really good together. She's so nice. She's so nice. Yeah. And she's pretty. And like her, her dad takes me hunting. Like I get that, but your marriage, like that relationship's over. She's so nice. Yeah, and she's pretty. And like her dad takes me hunting. Like I get that. But you're married. Like that relationship's over. Same here, man. I hate this for you.

I mean, because just think about it, Ashton. As the business continues to grow, the problems you're having are going to magnify. So if you are having issues now with you carrying the weight and he doesn't care about that at all, that's going to magnify. He's going to get married and want to take three months off and you'll just keep doing the job. He'll want to go to his kids games and you'll keep doing the job. And he'll want to start another side business and you'll keep doing the job.

So either put in some stipulations for him to continue moving forward on what you want him to do. Right. I mean, I think that's fair of like, okay, we need to work X amount of hours or profit wise, I take a percentage of the profits from the percentage of work that I do. Or that I book, right? Yeah. I mean, whatever it looks like, but structure it where it's fair. And then from there, if he can get on board, that's fine. But let me just, I will tell you, we work with small businesses all the time through on-trail leadership. And it's not always the case, but I'm saying 98% of the time,

we always say the ship that doesn't set, that never sets sail as a partnership. Like it's the one ship you just don't want to be on as a partnership. Again, small percentage of ones, they work. But Ashton, you're going to run into this. And versus if you just do it on your own, and maybe he's a manager under you or something, you know, works for you. But long long term i i would not continue down this road because there's

been no proof of change at all from him him initiating it right yeah yeah i'd say that's and i feel like you're bitter too ashtonon. Yeah. I mean, you're starting to, here's the other thing. Don't resent him because that's on you. That's because you didn't set up a boundary and a hold to it. You just kept going along with it and going along with it and going along with it

and now you hate the guy. Every time you see his phone pop up, like his caller ID will pop up on your phone, you're mad. Like, don't do that to him. Just like,

let him go. Let the person who lacks integrity go. And dude, he's a childhood friend. Y'all wanted a business. Y'all had big dreams together. And by the way, can we just say this? For a 20-year-old making half a million dollar top line, you are absolutely crushing it.

You must be amazing at what you do. Imagine if you had a team working behind you and beside you that had the same work ethic and drive you did. You'll be painting the entire city, right? Yeah, that's a whole other. You just got to grieve it, dude. You got to grieve it, man. I hate it for you.

And again, if there was some deal, Ashton, that said, yeah, I'm going to go to school for three years. Can you run this thing? Take the profits for what you make and I'm going to get back in after I graduate or something, right? I mean, like there's common sense ways to approach it, but this doesn't feel like common sense at all, the way he's gone about it. Yeah, I mean, I guess in a perfect world, and I know this is not what you're advising me to do, but I just have to say it. In a perfect world, we would have a conversation where we do set boundaries. But I've,

I've tried to do that before and he kind of just like talks around it and he gets really emotional and I feel like I can't have a real conversation. And then we get done with the conversation and nothing changes. And then, you know, after a week I'm back to being like, damn, you know,

I'm, I'm still getting, still getting the short end of the stick. And in a perfect world, another thing, Dave Ramsey would send me an email and just say, hey, I just deposited $5 million into your checking account just because I love you. You're handsome. That'd be awesome. And in another perfect, you get what I'm saying?

We keep doing this all day long, right? It's just, unfortunately, and you're finding it out, we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a messed up, sideways, jacked up world. And I want to commend you, dude. You've tried to have the hard conversation. You're doing great business. You had dreams for you and your buddy. And he bailed on you.

And reality, yep. Yeah. Thanks for the call, Ashton. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you to our wonderful audience today at the Money in Marriage Weekend Getaway. Thank you, John, for being a great co-host. This is The Ramsey Show. audience today at the Money in Marriage Weekend Getaway. Thank you, John, for being a great co-host.

This is The Ramsey Show. Live from Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, John Deloney. And we are here to answer your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. We're talking about your money, your relationships, your life, and we are here to help you. So starting us off this hour is Darciana. Nope, I butchered your name. Maricia. Maricia.

Why did I say a D? I have no idea why I started with a d we also like to quickly announce rachel cruz's reading program sponsored by every episode with john marcia why did i call you darcy oh because i saw denver and i was seeing d's i'm so sorry hooked on phonics did not work for her so what's's up? It's okay. Yeah. So I'm calling today because I have a question. So my husband and I have $545,000 of debt total. Whoa. How much of that is your house?

$133,000. Okay. But we have business debt. So the business is about $363,000 and the rest is personal. How much is the business did you say? $363,000, and the rest is personal. How much is the business, did you say? $363,000. Okay. Yeah.

Is it an LLC, or is it just running out of your checking account? It's in an LLC. Yeah, we have an LLC, everything's separate. Okay. What's your business? We own a commercial building, and it has a fitness center, so my husband runs that as well as his boxing program. And then we have rented out space for there's like jazzercise in one area,

a salon and a barbershop. And then we have Airbnbs on the third floor. So it's quite a hub. Are y'all hemorrhaging money? Are y'all making any money? Well, so when we first took it over, it was, it was pretty bad. Like we were like, I was using, you know, our personal income to like keep it going. And we started renting out our house. Um, so we moved out of the house and into an apartment in the gym. And so we survived the first couple of years and now it is making money. Like it's making enough, it makes about 10,000 a month, um, which is enough to pay the bills and, you know, a little extra, but it's an old building. makes about 10,000 a month, um, which is enough to pay the bills

and, you know, a little extra, but it's an old building. And of course, you know, things break and have to be replaced. And so it's been a struggle right now. We have to get the roof replaced, which is about 32, uh, K. So, um, it's, it's been quite a bit. So, so my question is, you know, uh, should we sell our house, even though we're making rental income on it and try to use the equity and then whatever we can make off of it in addition to knock out some of the debt? Or should we just keep going like we are?

I think you've got to sell this whole thing. The whole thing? Oh, man. I mean, you've got five different businesses. And James, our producer here, he is a huge Jazzercise fan. And he's all into it. But listen, you've got five different businesses. our producer here he is a huge jazzercise fan and like he's all into it but listen like like you've got five different businesses but you're telling me your top line net is ten thousand

dollars if you pay all of your staff and your people and your light bill and everything you make ten grand total yeah well we don't have we don't have any staff it's just my husband and i but you guys only make ten grand is the question per month oh no no okay that's for the business and then i work full-time and so and then from our side hustles we make about 11 000 so like 20 22 000 i know but how much how much about this this business just business uh 10 so the the building that you rent out your airbnb all that, plus all the class revenue. And by the way, you and your husband teaching every class, every session, every day is not sustainable.

You know that. Yeah. And you're working a full-time job on the side and you're running side hustles. Yeah. It's pretty intense. It's like y'all are, to use an analogy from your world, it's like y'all are doing all these different workouts, but you've got weight belts on and you're holding dumbbells while you're trying to run

your mile. You can't, I mean, you've got this giant thing you're dragging around. It's a massive asset of owning the building, which is a whole other. It's not like you're renting out these spaces. Yeah, it's depreciating underneath you. And the 10 grand won't cover the roof or the air conditioning or the new flooring or when one of the pipes burst for one of the tenants. You know what I mean?

It's just... Right, right, right. It can't... That makes sense. It's just... It's like the... Are you guys happy? Yeah.

Are you enjoying this? Do you like your life? Yeah. I mean, we're pretty happy. We feel like we're making progress and whatnot, but it's getting pretty... It's frustrating too sometimes, you know? Yeah. Because you've been at it for how long, it's frustrating too sometimes, you know? Yeah. Because you've been at it for how long?

Two years. Two years? Okay. And you sacrificed a lot. Yeah, and you're not even living in your home. You're renting, you know, you're renting your home out to survive. So it just doesn't feel sustainable long-term. None of this feels, it all just feels very shaky. Or you don't feel, I don't feel like you have a path like a fully if you had every seat in every class full and you had your airbnb apartments rented like 300 days a year do you have even a path to making this financially viable

this is the pet that's come down like if we can pay the debts down, then, you know, that would, I think we'd be okay. But, um, no, yeah. I mean, it would be, it'd be tough. It's like, it's tough just to get to that point though. I feel like you made, you made like a hamburger restaurant and, but you only put six tables in it. And so you can only, you know, you can only sell 20 hamburgers at lunch and that's it. And that's just not going to pay your bills. Did you guys buy the business from someone? Yeah, we did. Okay. How much of that, how much of the debt is that, is the business loan?

Just the business loan? It's 280. And then we had a repair loan for 36. And then who owns the building? We do. You do. Is that part of the 280? Yeah.

Okay, so that included the building asset. How much is that building worth? When we had it assessed, it's like, I want to say like $350,000, $350,000. Okay, and how much do you think the businesses are worth inside of it? Well, those aren't ours. Those folks that are renting from us. They're renting from you. I really don't know. Yeah.

And so for, what's the mortgage on the building every month? $2,681. And how much are you making from the rental? For the salon and the barbershop?

Yeah, and the workout classes. I mean, everything. Like, what are you making? $10,000. Yeah, $10,000. It's coming in, the rent, and then you're paying the mortgage. So you guys are, so you're really netting $8,000. No, no, because then we have geothermal loans because we had to get some geothermals replaced.

Okay. Okay, and how much are those loans, and how much are those a month? For one, three, four, five, about $600. Okay, and how much are those loans? And how much are those a month? For one, three, four, five, about $600. Okay, okay. So you guys are, you're clearing 7,000-ish? No, not with all these. No, because you got light bills, water bills. We're only like, probably like-

I'm trying to get to the number. What are you bringing home? Like what is hitting your account to say, yes, we made this after everything? A thousand to two thousand. Okay, that's the number we're talking about here. You're making $12,000 a year. $12,000 a year doing so much work.

Leverage to the hilt. Do you feel that? Like, from not only the work you're putting in and the time and the energy, but also, to John's point, the financial burden of holding all of this. I would sell the building

for $300,000 and clear that debt. Is this your dream that would die or your husband's? Kind of both of us. Okay. Sounds like a nightmare.

We talked about it too. You're making $12,000 a year. I need you to hold that. That's what people make in their side hustle doing a couple hours a week for a month. Do you know what I mean?

That's it. People make $1,000 by working two nights every single week for a month. Sell the building. You don't for a month. That's it. Sell the building. You don't have a life.

Sell the building, move back into your home, and your husband can get a full-time job, and y'all can have peace and reassess what's going on next. Yes. Just get out of the nightmare. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Today's Ramsey Network app question comes from Hayden. All right, here's what Hayden writes.

I'm a senior in high school, and I have a little over $10,000 in my savings account. Dude, Hayden is better off than like 70% of adults in the United States. Congratulations, Hayden. I don't own a credit card, and I've never gone into debt. I just feel like I need to take a moment of silence for Hayden, because he's kind of awesome. However, I'm going to seminary next year, and I'm going to have to pay over $130,000 over four years.

When I graduate, my church will cover all student loans to the dollar i wonder what your thoughts are about taking on this debt knowing it can be paid off immediately after i graduate that's how you really feel john here's what i feel um i feel like i love this idea and i think on paper this is amazing yeah i'll just leave it that i think it sounds cool for hayden who has some values and some commitments and clearly this person is hayden's a special person he works really hard he understands dad he understands the value of money etc what hayden doesn't have is the life experience to know this um unless the church is going to sign a contract you don't know what church leadership is going to be there in four years um uh there's a whole bunch of federal

employees that just found out like and we don't, right? You don't know what's going to happen. And you're going to be holding 130 grand. I also, Hayden, have spent the vast majority of my career at faith-based universities. And I know how many students say, I'm going to seminary and they get there and they end up wanting to go to med school or they end up wanting to go to law school or they end up just dropping out of college completely.

And so then you're maybe holding $40,000 of debt or $80,000 of debt and the church isn't going to pay you back. And so I just can't in good conscience say, yes, go ahead and spend 130K. If the church wants you, what I would be okay with is the reverse. We're going to pay your way. Through as you go. And you sign a deal that says, I'll come work for y'all guaranteed for four years or three years after I graduate or something like that. I all about that i love that plan um but then the church has some skin in the game right now their skin in the game is you go get them buddy and you come let us know bring that bill to us and i just i just don't trust um i don't trust what could

happen in four years yeah for sure no and there and there is such a risk from i think what john is saying is so smart that from your own Personal interest changing and then feeling trapped into a system that you put yourself in at 18 years old That you feel like you have to finish because if you don't then you know x y and z you're going to be owed all this money Um, you're going to owe all this money and then on the other hand if there is not a good system in place For like a payback type method, then you are, it is risky. Like that is a level of risk. And again, everyone has goodwill.

Everyone goes in thinking that the best is going to happen. And we just hear time and time again with programs or situations or entities or the church ends up shutting down, you know, two years in or something. I mean, like stuff happens. And when you put so much risk out there in the future like that it is that is not a game to play so or the way i like to look at risk is i like to take big risks but only when you have locked down your the nerd turn lock down your long tails and i'm not ever going to take a risk that if it doesn't pay out i i go under i'm screwed yeah i'm like it just yeah and nobody else hayden

has skin in this risk except for you yep that's it yeah and the church says yeah come back to us in four years cool um and then that that that elder of your church leaves and quits and then the new guy comes in or somebody uncovers corruption or they decided to do a building project or three of the big donors say i'm not not paying for that kid. I don't like him or what, who knows what's happening. So no, I can't in good conscience do that. If the church really wants you and they want to invest in you, they can do it on the front end, not have you carry this entire weight for four years and then make it up on the back end. That's my recommendation. Love it. All right, let's go to the phones and let's go to Mitchitch in atlanta hey mitch

welcome to the show hey hey thank you you're welcome thanks for calling in how can we help i got about twenty thousand dollars to play with and i don't i don't make a whole lot of money where i where i'm sitting at and although i do like work, I don't make a whole lot and I don't know how to get to retirement from where I'm at. What do you mean play with? You're not going to Vegas, are you? No, it's all just sitting in a bank account collecting dust.

Okay. Okay. Okay, how old are you, Mitch? 27. 27, okay. And how much are you, Mitch? 27. 27, okay. And how much are you making a year? About $13,000. $13,000 a year.

What are you doing? What do you do, Mitch? I work at a small family-owned winery. Okay. Is that your future plan, brother? I don't know. i don't know i don't know how many hours are you working a week about 30 to 40 okay why are they underpaying you like dramatically underpaying you it's just not um the whole um, the whole business itself is, is not making like a whole lot of money overall.

Okay. So why? The boss is not shy of showing like his bank account or whatever. He ain't, well, none of us are really making a whole lot of money. We're just making enough money to get by. Why are you,

why are you, why are you there? Why are you working there? That's below the national poverty level. Nobody's getting by on $13,000 a year. Y'all are starving. Why are you working there, Mitch? I just enjoy doing the work. Okay. Where are you living? Georgia. No, I'm sorry, like in an apartment. Middle of nowhere. In an apartment, and are you renting a house with your parents?

I'm with my parents at the moment. Okay. So Mitch, what's your long-term plan? What are you thinking? Where do you want to be at 35, career-wise? I do not know. Okay. Okay, yeah.

So you said it's a family-owned winery. Who's the family? Is it your family or you're just working there? It's not my family. It's not your family. So you have no attachment to this. Mitch, I would quit. I know you enjoy it,

but from a long-term human perspective in America in 2025, you can't make a living on $13,000 a year. You'll never retire, brother. Yeah, that's not going to work. And I feel like they're taking advantage of you too, Mitch. They're taking big-time advantage of you. You're working 40 hours a week making $13,000. Does that compete? I mean, is that—

It's against the law. It's not minimum wage and it doesn't hit the $23,660 threshold. So at some level, you're being taken advantage of. Do they pay you in cash? No. How do they file you on taxes? Do you have a W-2? Do you have a W-2 or you have a w-2 or 1099

a w-2 okay an employee i don't i don't know um maybe it's a part-time employee so i think that there for you mitch is a 27 year old man i think you need to be thinking career-wise and we have some great tools you know to help you and i'm not saying any of this to shame you i just want to be a friend that's not a friend, just another voice out there to just kind of push away some of this fog and kind of like shoot you straight. And before we get off the call,

Christian will pick up and I want to give you some of Ken Coleman's material. Because for you, Mitch, I'm like, I want you to do work that you enjoy 100%. I want you to be compensated fairly. And above that, I want you to do work that you enjoy 100%. I want you to be compensated fairly. And above that, I want you to make a great living doing what you love, because I think that's good for Mitch. You can't sit in this situation forever and ever and ever and ever, because you won't,

I mean, mathematically, you can't do anything. You can't rent an apartment. You can't be on your own. You can't buy food. You can't do any of that. And so something does have to change for your financial future. And that would be changing jobs.

Yeah, you can't be working there anymore. And so what I would do with this money right now, I would probably just hold on to it. You can put it in a high yield savings account right now. If you have any debt, use that to pay off this debt. But this is your emergency fund right now is how I see it. Don't invest it, yeah. Yeah, don't invest it.

Just put it in a high yield savings account. You'll earn four-ish percent. And then I would be looking for a new job. But again, hold on the line and Christian's going to pick up. And we're going to give you Find the Work You're Wired to Do by Ken Coleman. And there's a great assessment in the back of that book. And I would go on a whole adventure, Mitch, and kind of think and dream about what's out there. And again, enjoying your work, but also making a fair wage.

A livable wage. When it comes to your money, getting in control and knowing exactly where your money is going is so key to winning long term. And doing a monthly budget allows you to do that. And EveryDollar, our budgeting app, makes this simple. You can plan your spending, track your expenses, and save really for what matters most to you. And again, it's all in an app. It is so easy to use, you guys. And to be able to get control of your money, this is the first step, is doing a monthly budget with EveryDollar.

So download EveryDollar. So download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play, or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, we have Rose in Denver, Colorado up next. Hi, Rose. Welcome to the show. Hi. Hello. Hello. Hi. My question is downsizing. I feel like I should probably downsize because the Denver area is so expensive. I'm really like at the max with paying for my apartment and my income. And I take care of my mom who's disabled. And I'm a single mom of one child. Oh, wow. So why don't you move? We've tried to look like moving out of state. Um, but with nothing like saved, it's just kind of like, we did try to move to Kansas. We got approved for a house there. And then that kind of fell

through. He said that the property manager was like selling the property and that they were moving to other things and then when we were looking they wanted like a 650 credit score I've never utilized my credit so my credit just doesn't it's not at anything so they won't trust me enough to give me a place there okay so well when it comes to to buying a home then yes that's a process underwriting, which is something so, which is different than going and trying to just rent an apartment. So that's probably what I would advise you to do. I wouldn't go buy a-term and then get into the process of buying a home. And so when you do manual underwriting, you do have to be somewhere and prove that you pay bills on time for two years

and that you're employed for two years. And so that's some of the criteria for manual underwriting. But, okay, so tell me, what do you do for a job, Rose? What do you do for a living? I work for a bank. Okay. And how much do you make a a job rose what's your what do you do for a living i work for a bank okay and how much do you make a year about thirty thousand thirty thousand dollars okay and um and how old your how old your child my child nine nine okay and do you guys have family in kansas is that what caused you to look there no we, we're kind of close to family. They, like,

we have family in Tennessee and Kentucky and things like that, but not in Kansas. So we were just trying to be close, but not too close. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. Okay. But hey, Rose, that's, you have a lot on your plate to be making $30,000. Yeah. Like what? You know, the rents are really high here. It's like 20, I paid 2,400 a month for a two bedroom. Yeah. You can't do that. So we're already crammed. Yeah. You can't do that and take care of your mom and take care of your kid, um, on a single income. I'm not asking this in a pejorative way. I'm asking this just full honesty. What kind of skills do you have? $30,000, it feels like you can go make double that.

Yeah, I can make more. I do have a lot of good skills. I have a lot of manager skills, things like that. And I used to make a lot of money. I used to make like $80,000 a year. I was a store manager for a retail place, but I had a car and it was stolen in Denver and I couldn't get to my job anymore. So I had to quit that job. And then I found working for this bank was a lot easier. I can work from home while taking care of my mom who's disabled. And then my son, my mom does bring in income from her disability. So that's like $1,600 a month. Okay. Well, I think you hit the pendulum really hard, right?

And so I get, I need to get a work from stay-at-home job. I get that. Work from home job. I get that. But man, with your skill set and your stick-to-itiveness and your ability to care for folks all over, like you juggle so much. I would want you working with me on my team, right? So I think there I think there's a stay at home job that you can make 60 grand. And so you took one, you're making 30, you're keeping the lights on. Um, before I uprooted everybody, I would

just keep applying and applying and applying for a good stay at home job and see if you can find one. Yeah, I think that's a, that's a good plan. Do you think, like my apartment that I'm at now offered me to downsize to like a one bedroom? That would be tough, but for a year we can do that with three people. Three people? I mean, that's what we're trying to figure out if we could make that work. Yeah, you can't do that. It would be like $1,300 a month, so it would go down $1,000 a month. Yeah, but I mean, that's you sleeping on the couch,

and that's your kid sleeping on a twin-size mattress in the kitchenette area, and your mom taking the mat. I mean, you can. You can do whatever you want. You're a grown-up. But, man, that's really tough. I know. I would give my son the room.

Yeah. We've kind of talked about that, like giving my son the room, and then maybe me and my mom having two pull-out sofas in the the room. We've kind of talked about that, like giving my son the room and then maybe me and my mom having to pull out sofas in the living room. But I mean, it would be really tough. I'd put a nine-year-old on a pull-out sofa for my disabled mom.

Yeah, nine-year-olds are... Yeah, so Rose, I think, yeah, I don't think the switching the apartment to a one-bedroom, staying in the same location is wise i don't i think that's going to cause way more stress on your life so i would do it john says um i would be applying for more and i will say denver is one of the more expensive cities right now in america i mean you are in a you are in a very expensive city and nothing's tying you there and you don't

care to move somewhere else for a remote job i'm like yeah i mean a lot of people that's why a lot of people are leaving california is there's you know they don't yeah they don't have the margin that they could have somewhere else so um i would be looking i wouldn't look to just go buy a house somewhere random i mean i really would i would i would find a a great city that you feel good about and there's great ones everywhere i mean honestly i'm like you have family in tennessee go to bowling green like go to louisville i mean iling Green, like go to Louisville. I mean, I don't know. Or go to Springfield. There's just so many cool, smaller towns. Yeah, small towns that you can have a great life and do a remote job there.

It's a fraction of the price of probably what you're paying for rent there or maybe half. And yeah, I think there's a lot of options out there, Rose. But if nothing's tying you to Denver, I probably would move closer to family and I would not buy a home. I would find a higher paying job and somewhere else to live, if I were you. All right, let's go to Lacey in Pittsburgh. Hi, Lacey. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you doing? We're doing great. Okay, we have about two minutes, Lacey. How can we help? That's all right. So I am trying to figure out, because I'm getting a lot of mixed signals from people in my life,

I'm trying to figure out if it's a financially wise decision for me to return to college and finish my degree so I can get a better paying job, or if I should focus on staying at my job and paying off the debts my husband and I currently have. Okay, how much are you making now at your job? Right now, my net income is around 30,000 gross. I'm at 39,500. Okay. And if you had a degree, what would you be making? I would be getting anywhere from 10 to 25,000 more, depending on what company I could get hired by. I am in finance. I work remotely

with a mortgage company. And unfortunately, my company just announced layoffs as well. So my husband's a professor. I would get tuition at his university for free. Oh. Yes, I would do that immediately. Yeah, for sure. No question about it. How long will it take you to finish your degree? We're looking probably 18 to 24 months, but we are expecting our first child within the next seven.

Oh, well, congratulations. Are you able to do classes remote? Unfortunately, they are all in person at his university. Okay. I mean, I probably wouldn't with a seven. You said you're due in seven months? Yes. Okay. I mean, I would. Again, I've never carried a child, so it's easy for me to say it that way. But after having a baby, I'm like, going back to class and having to do school with a newborn feels like a lot.

It is, but I wrote a dissertation with like there's pictures of me writing with hank like on a boppy with like i've propped a bottle up when he's eating i mean i don't know what visual what visual you're kidding no i'm not lactating you weirdo but so like here's the thing i think there's ways to figure it out but um and yes even if you have to take some time off to have a kid at home and all that, but, but yes, I would take advantage of the free tuition. Um, and maybe even there might not be technical online courses, but there might have a semester where your professors let you work correspondence and do it from home and send in your, your stuff that way. But yes, I would definitely, definitely take advantage of this and you can work and go to class at the same time. Now having a new kid that might put you out for a year, but yes, I would definitely, definitely take advantage of this. And you can work and go to class at the same time.

Now, having a new kid, that might put you out for a year. But yes, I would get that degree. No questions. Our scripture of the day comes from Psalm 37, 3 through 4. Trust in the Lord and do good. Dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture. Take delight in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart.

Money can't buy you happiness, but it will certainly get you a better class of memories. Ronald Reagan. Good grief. Good grief. Money can't make you happy, but man, when you look back into your life, you're like, whatever. Some cool experiences.

I would say that. Sure. Can I change the call? You'll give me some cool experiences. You're right. All right. Let's go to Devin in Hattiesburg. Hi, Devin. Welcome to the show.

Hello, Ms. Rachel. Hello, Mr. John. So I've got a unique situation. I'm one of those federal workers who very likely will end up being riffed here within the next couple of months. Did you take the buyout? I did not, you know, but there's reductions that are coming and I just, we're getting ready just in case. Good for you, man. I'm sorry, man. It's all right because John, we've been following Dave's plan since 2005. We're in a great spot. My question, question, I have a military retirement, I'm retired military. Do we keep investing in our Roth IRA and then my wife's 401k during this transition. And here's our

background. This is the great stuff. Currently, investments, $2.6 million, zero debt, baby step seven, looking for some advice, guidance, if there's anything else we should do when that does happen. Dang, Devin, you're done. Congratulations. Incredibly well. What's your full net worth, house and everything? House and everything, about 4.2. Wow. Well done. Oh, man. And you're a veteran? Yes, sir. Dude, you're not going to have much tread left on the tires when it's all said and done, are you? No. That's a life well lived, brother.

Congratulations, man. Yeah, well done. How old are you guys? I am 54. My wife is 50. Okay. Oh, you're only halfway done, man. Man, you're still going. Good grief.

I thought you were like 79 years old. You don't sound old, Devin. No, you don't sound old. You just accomplished more than I have. The average person. I have my 100 miles. The average person. Amazing, dude.

Do you, what's your wife do? than I have. The average person. It's amazing, dude. What's your wife do? So my wife has worked at Walmart for the last 31 years. Okay, yeah. So she's going to be there for the foreseeable future. So it's more your job. Correct.

So when the layoff happens, if or when, probably a when, I think is what you're assuming. Do you have a plan on what you want to do next? I have not figured that out yet. I mean, I could do anything. I work in transportation. So, you know, anything dealing with vehicles.

Yeah, of course, in the military, I've got management experience. I'd like to stay away from that because that was a one and done. That was fun then, but not anymore. Sure. And I like to, you know, analytical. Okay. Take a look at stuff, tear it apart, make it better, things like that. Okay.

How much money does it take to run your household each month, considering you guys don't have a mortgage or anything, but what would be like a, yeah, we need to make this to feel good about life? So with everything, taxes, insurance and whatnot, about $4,000 a month. Okay. And what's your wife bring in a month? So here's the best part. So her paychecks right now are $700 per month. Everything else we're socking to her 401k. Okay. How much would she be bringing in if you weren't doing that? Per month, right around $2,200.

Okay. What's your military benefit every month? $6,534. Okay. So y'all are net positive even without her money at all, right? Correct. Okay. So Rachel, off the top of my head, if I was you, and just because I have a smidge of the worry wart inside of me, I would pause and stack cash. But in your situation, you're a multimillionaire. It might not be worth the paperwork for you to do that. Yeah. Devin, how much cash do you guys have available, just like in a high yield or a savings?

High yield, about $110. Good gosh. Lead with that, Devin. just keep doing what you're doing man do you want to go back to work no you got to do something you gotta do something well go volunteer i don't know like i mean there's no rush for anything you're in zero urgent situation um i am i am a volunteer firefighter, but the man in me... Who are you? You're like a superhero, Devin. And he feeds orphans on the weekends. Yeah, no kidding. And you paint the houses of

widows. Golly, dude. Do you have any sons that are nine years old? Because I want my... Are you setting up Josephine? I'm trying. I'm trying. You're amazing, dude. Amazing.

Okay. So, yeah. So, what's your big question? Because from a math perspective, you're fine. So, what are you... So, yeah. What's the question under the question? How can we help you?

So, question under the question. Do I keep investing? Do I keep doing the 401k? And should my wife, Glenda, should she keep investing in her 401k as well? Don't change anything yeah you're fine you're fine and um from a percentage standpoint i can't do the math quickly here what i wonder what percentage you guys are investing because you are on baby step seven so we always say 15 to retirement but also i want you guys to be able to enjoy some life too

um because from a retirement perspective you guys are doing great 2.6 million um so are you i mean do you feel like from a um from the quality of your life devon are you guys good like are you like oh yeah we kind of have everything we need we're pretty content or is they're like oh we really want to replace like i mean i guess you have 100k and you can replace a car with i'm just trying to see like this giving, saving and spending mentality, right? Doing all three things on Baby Step 7 is really important. And do you guys feel like you're doing those things well? We do. Yes. I mean, and as far as as far as like what we, you know, need as far as it goes, we we're still pretty, you know, grassroots. We don't need a whole lot. And so we're just we're in a great spot. That's why I say, and like I say, Rachel,

that's all due to what your dad taught. So thanks to him. Well, Dave put it out there, but you guys did it day in and day out. And that's the grind, right? Yeah, you did it. Let me say this. I think the challenge you have going forward

is going to be emotional and psychological. And so if you and your wife, here's what I would do. I would exhale. And if the layoffs come, the layoffs come and you head home, I would plan a weekend away. And for you guys and for me, it'd probably be the KOA because I'm kind of cheap, especially if I just lost my job. The what? A KOA. Rachel's like, what is that?

What kind of hotel is that? But Rachel, it's a campA. Rachel's like, what is that? What kind of hotel is that? But Rachel, it's a campground. She reads about those in stores. I mean, in her books. But listen, so I would go do that, and here's what I would do. I would have a halftime conversation.

Like, you and your wife sit down and say, okay, you've done a quarter century at Walmart. I did part-time as Clark Kent, part-time as Superman, part-time fireman. Like I've done all this cool stuff. We get to decide because we've worked so hard and been so frugal, we get to decide the back half, the second half of our life. We can do anything, go anywhere, do whatever we want. What do we want that to look like? And here's the question I want you all to ask yourself. What do we want our house to feel like every day when we both walk in?

And reverse engineer that problem. And if that's you getting an A certification and just working as a local mechanic and nobody knows that you're a multimillionaire, you're just like hanging out with the guys, then go do that. And if you guys want to sell your house and move to jamaica do whatever you can do whatever you want to do man that's the beauty of this thing and so i love that idea of y'all having a halftime conversation like we're halfway done um uh and we get to we get to pick what happens next awesome and the biggest challenge for you brothers i would just challenge you to not um do nothing because all the data tells me is that when somebody stops doing anything,

their body just shuts the system down. I don't think that's Devin's issue though. That might be my issue. What is this KOA you speak of? It may end up there. Amazing. Oh, great. Devin, well done.

Yeah, congratulations, brother. Absolutely incredible. I mean mean that's that's a that's a testament to like i mean being diligent yeah over time being wise i mean all of it i mean obviously serving your country and just doing incredible things but here's the here's the meta here not everybody's going to get caught up in some big political sweep of whatever's going on in the government all the madness everybody will face stuff and if you face whatever's going on in the government, all the madness, everybody will face stuff. And if you face whatever's coming, cancer diagnosis, job loss, house burns down, whatever

tragedy is coming your way, and it gets all of us, if you don't owe anybody any money, it makes weathering that storm that much easier. Absolutely. Yep. Putting yourself in a great financial position. Great job, Devin. Well, thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thanks to our wonderful audience out here for our Money and Marriage getaway weekend. We're about to go up to the rec center and hang out with all of them. John, thanks for being a great co-host and thank you, America. Remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.