The Ramsey Show - App - Breaking the Curse of Debt (Hour 3)

Episode Date: April 2, 2019

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is done, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Thanks for joining us. Brent is, or Brett is with us in Pensacola. Hi, Brett. How are you? Very good. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up? I have more of a psychological problem than a financial problem. Growing up, we didn't have a whole lot, and I have saved as much as I can, and I'm at a point in my life where I think I'm okay, but mentally I don't feel like I'm okay. I guess most people who invest never really feel like they've got enough. So that's kind of my problem. Okay.

And how much do you have in your nest egg? Well, if you add up all my investments, about $2.5 million. About $10.5 million? No, no, no, $2.5 million. Okay. All right. Good. Good for you. And you started with nothing,, no, $2.5. $2.5, okay. Good, good for you. And you started with nothing, you said, right?

You grew up with nothing? Well, I got out of the military in 1985, and I had two nickels to rub together. Yeah. So how old are you? 56. Cool. And what do you make a year these days? Well, it always varies between $ 250 and 350 okay and what would be an example of something that um you think a normal person with two and a half million dollars as if

that's normal well but what would a normal person spend money on that you that you psychologically don't feel like you can well you know it's funny i mean i talked to a lot of people and i've searched out many a website and then i came across your show um which i just learned of not long ago and uh you know you always want verification i guess is it enough you know some people think uh you know,000 a month is enough, $15,000 a month, $20,000 a month to live comfortably. You just don't know. So I'm quite frugal. I probably drive my wife crazy calculating our finances every twice a month at least. So what is the biggest luxury item you guys have bought in the last five years?

What's the biggest luxury item? I have a Porsche in my garage. Oh, okay. What, like $100,000? A little more than that. Cool. What's the biggest thing she's bought? Her Range Rover.

She's got a car, a Range Rover. Okay, so you've got a couple nice cars. Okay, so you're not having any trouble spending money on cars. No, that's one weakness I do have. That's not a weakness. You're in good enough shape to drive both those cars. I would drive those cars if I were in your shoes. I think that's fine.

So here's the thing that I have figured out as far as enjoying money. And someone from what you're asking me is how can I enjoy this? How do I know if it's enough? Because I can't enjoy it if I don't think it's enough. Correct. If I heard you right, that's what I was hearing. And that happens a lot to those of us that started from nothing. In my case, I started from nothing, became a millionaire, and then went bankrupt before I was 28.

And had to start again because I'm stupid. So I kind of have that fear in the back of my head you know that black that black cloud psychologically hovering around in the back back there like oh god this is good and you know and if you don't think i do y'all ask my wife she's got a bigger one you know she's like i don't know if we can afford that or not and i'm like darling we darling, we can definitely afford that. So the thing that's helped me do that is I have learned that I can allow myself to enjoy money easier if I'm doing two things. One is my generosity is high. If I'm giving, then it's okay for me to drive a porsche you know that helps me enjoy the porsche more i think if i was stopped up and i wasn't ever giving anything not helping anybody

with any of the money then it would be harder to enjoy the porsche okay and so like i drive a really really i've got several really nice cars i'm a car geek and so i've got several really nice cars. I'm a car geek, and so I've got ridiculous money in cars. But as a percentage of my net worth, which is the second thing, and as a percentage of my giving, even though they're really ridiculously nice cars, like you have, you know, you've got wonderful cars. But, you know, as an example, in your case, you've got, let's say, $170,000 worth of cars, $150,000 worth of cars sitting there. And if you give away $3,000 a year, then that's going to make it hard for you to enjoy those cars. And so generosity factor in ratio to what you're enjoying, whatever it is. If you travel and you're going to spend $100,000 on travel

and you only give $2,000 away a year, it's going to be harder to enjoy the travel because you're becoming a hedonist. You're becoming inward-facing and selfish and greedy kind of a person, even though you didn't mean to. But generosity helps break that down in your spirit and keeps your soul a little cleaner. The second thing I look at is I look at ratios. And that's what I'm doing with your cars.

$170,000 worth of cars as a percentage of $2.5 million is nothing. If you took those cars out in the front yard. I keep the Porsche in the garage, and usually I drive a Range Rover as well. Yeah, but if you took all your cars and put them in the front yard with no insurance and set fire to them, your life really doesn't change. Your life doesn't change. It's a small enough percentage of your world that it's easy to enjoy because you're not out of line. But you take a guy who's making $60,000 a year and has a negative net worth with student loans,

and he drives a $50,000 car, and those guys are all over America, right? And see, that not only makes that car stupid, but it makes it harder to enjoy because the ratios are out of whack. He's got too much of his life tied up in luxury things if a girl's got a ring on her hand and that is the entire couple's net worth it's harder to enjoy that ring where sharon is like she's got yeah this ridiculously wonderful ring looks like a headlight but when we got married it was a when we got married i mean she got a 0.23 it wasn't even a full fourth of a carrot that one's in the safe because it's nostalgic but it you know it wouldn't even

show up around the ring that she's got now you know and i'm not bragging i'm just saying it's because we've worked so hard you and me both for so many years if my generosity is up there i find i can enjoy a portion of my wealth and if it's a small portion of my wealth small enough then i can enjoy it we can go on a luxurious trip that costs more than we used to make in a year back in the day you know and you could do that right now and you could too you know you could too, you know? You could too. And it's still, while it's a high percentage of your emotional memory, it's not a high percentage of your current world. And that allows you to enjoy it. So hold on, I'm going to send you a copy of the only book I've written on this subject,

Wealth. All my other books are on money. The book I wrote on wealth is called The Legacy Journey. And I'll warn you ahead of time, it's a Christian book. Because it's the only way you can view wealth and keep it in balance. And so it's the only book I've written that's exclusively Christian. And if you're not Christian, you really won't enjoy it, so throw it away. Or use it for a coaster on your table or something. But I think you'll get something out of it.

Hold on, I'll send you a copy of it one dental is a company i've been telling my listeners about because i know these guys will save you money at the dentist oneental is a dental savings program that allows you to go to one of over 158,000 dental practice locations nationwide and save on things like cleanings, dentures, root canals, crowns, and even orthodontics. Here's the really cool part. You can join One Dental right now and you don't have to worry about high deductibles, waiting periods, or pre-existing conditions. Just find your highly qualified dentist in the network, make the appointment, and start saving every time you go to the dentist. This is a great cost-saving alternative to expensive dental services and a great alternative to costly

dental insurance. It really is that simple. And unless you want to blow your emergency fund, everyone needs to go to the dentist. Folks, this is a no-brainer. Join today at OneDental.com. That's OneDental.com. Well, it has been a busy 30 days. In the last 30 days, we've launched three things that have been very, very, very popular around here. Thing number one that we launched around here that's absolutely gone crazy is the Ramsey Cruise. We teach you to live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. If you're in Baby Step 4, 5, 6, 7, you're in a position to go on vacations. If you're not, you're not. You should be working to get out of debt.

You're not invited. But next March 2020, we're going to go to the Caribbean on Holland America, a brand new ship. And if you don't know the cruise lines, Holland America is one of the nice ones. It's not one of the cheesy, cheap ones. This is a high-end, nice cruise. We're going in March of 2020, and we're going to go to Turks and Caicos and St. Thomas and, of course, the Bahamas and, of course, Puerto Rico. The stops are amazing. The ship is 100% ours.

It is already 70% sold out, and we launched it like 18 days ago. Launched the ship. Da-da-bum-bum-sh. Launched the cruise. Ba-ba-bum-sh. Anyway, but anyway, yeah. Seriously, so there's 2,600 people, and we've already sold 70% of the seats, 70% of the births. So if you have an interest, go to RamseyCruise.com.

It'll be all the Ramsey personalities on there, me, Rachel Cruz, Chris Hogan, Anthony O'Neill, Ken Coleman, Christy Wright. We'll all be on there. Manat Shahan, who's one of the chefs from the Big Time Food Network stuff, she's a big star on that, owns several restaurants here in Nashville, is a friend of ours, is going, and I do some celebrity chef stuff there on the cruise. She will not be cooking the dinners, but there'll be some demonstrations and so forth. She'll be with us.

My friend Stephen Curtis Chapman, our country music, Christian music icon, is going to be with us, and he's an absolutely incredible Grammy Award winner. Our friend Jeff Foxworthy is going, and so that'll be a lot of fun. And obviously we'll be having some good redneck jokes, among other things.

And we'll do some events and stuff, but there's going to be a lot of just enjoying ourselves, all of us. And so we'd love to have you come. It's $250 is all to reserve your spot as a deposit per person. So if you want to reserve for you and your spouse, and I've already met a bunch of people that have reserved, but like I said, we've got only 2,600. Actually, it's only 2 2400 and some change births uh because of staffing and so forth so it's about 70 gone the second thing that we've launched that has gone big time out there is ken coleman's new

book the proximity principle the pre-sale on that is happening and the proximity principle is all about being in proximity to the people and places that do what you want to do in your career, the proven strategy that will lead you to the career you love. And this is a latest Ramsey Press book coming out by Ramsey Personality, and it will come out in May. It is on presale right now at KenColeman.com and DaveRamsey.com. And today we launched for sale. Actually can ship it to you today live.

The Contentment Journal that Rachel Cruz has put out. 90 days she's going to walk with you through a journey through gratitude, humility, and into contentment. Because gratitude and humility are precursors to finding contentment. And Rachel's, this is one of Rachel's soft spots right here. She really, really, really goes deep on this subject and does a great job on it. And this journal is a wonderful quality piece. It's a quality book. It's a four-color.

The design team at Ramsey just did an incredible job. I'm so proud of the product. And Rachel's really proud of it, of course. So the Contentment Journal, the Proximity Principle, and the Cruise. That's some stuff that's happening around here right now. That's just all hot as a firecracker. Thank you very, very much, all of you, for your endorsing and embracing all of these ideas where we try to put out stuff where we actually help you. Heidi is with us.

Heidi is in Tampa. Hi, Heidi. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi where we actually help you. Heidi is with us. Heidi is in Tampa. Hi, Heidi. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you. I have backed myself into a corner with my student loans. I originally borrowed $40,000 in 97 to go to school. I started out paying them and then was in and out of forbearances as my now ex-husband went through a series of unemployment. So I have been a single mother.

I work three jobs and the payment they want from me is always more than I can pay. So I've consulted with an attorney and it looks to me like my best option right now is to file Chapter 13, which will interrupt the garnishment that I now have on my primary job, and then that will help me, the attorney says, get out of default with it and get into a loan repayment, hopefully an affordable amount that I can afford. Okay, so you've had them for 30 years? Yes. Yes, I've tried to pay them when I can.

So the current balance to pay it off is what? Oh, the current balance is it's ballooned to $106,000. And what do you make at your day job, your main job? My tax return last year was I brought home $52,000. Uh-huh. And how old are your children? 19 and 16. Okay.

Are you getting child support? No. Why? I've gotten some here and there, but I don't get it officially on the record. Okay. So you said you made $52,000? Yes. And in Tampa, Florida.

And what do you do for a living? I work for a construction manufacturing firm called Katerra. I'm a quality manager there. So you're doing 40 hours there, and then you're working extra jobs too? Yep. Yep. Okay. I work as an admin for a restaurant. I do that work on the computer at home at night, and then I work weekends at my kids.

Here's the problem you're going to run into, okay? A Chapter 13 is a five-year plan it's 60 months and you pay payments every month during the entire five years and if you do not pay more than you've ever paid in your life you're going to come out of the Chapter 13 with debt, with substantial debt. And so, you know, you have the Chapter 13 will get rid of the garnishment. That is true. And it might get you on a minimal payment to get you where you can breathe. But both of those things are short-term fixes.

If you do that, you have to have a long-term answer to this equation. And so let's start doing some math. If we want to be rid of $100,000 in five years, it's $20,000 a year. If we want to be rid of $100,000 in three years, it's $35,000 a year. That's what you need to do. And that means you need to think about what kind of a career you can, moves you can make on your day job, but more importantly what kind of second job you can get that's better than the one you've got

because I want you to get your income up $15,000 or $20,000, and I want you to start putting $35,000 a year, $3,000 a month towards these loans so that in three years this 30-year curse on your life is broken because you have swept this under the rug and swept it under the rug and swept it under the rug, and you've had a reason or an excuse every year that you have not dealt with it, and it is growing, as you have noticed. It is not going away. Student loans are not bankruptable in the sense that you can make them go away with a Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

The only way you're going to get rid of it is pay it. Chapter 13 will give you some temporary relief and allow you to get situated, but you need to think about what we've got to do with our income, what we've got to do with our budget to put $3,000 a month for the next three years and break this 30-year curse off of you. I'm going to help you. You hold on. I want you to go through Financial Peace University as my guest.

You need some help, and I'll help you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. You know, I still get lots of questions about ID theft, and now is a good time to delve into this a little deeper. ID theft has become a huge problem, and most people think it's all about financial fraud. But there are so many other areas where people are being victimized. Tax refund fraud, for example, is out of control. Last year, the IRS paid out over $3 billion in fraudulent refunds. Thieves are filing false returns and stealing your refund. Credit monitoring and prevention plans don't detect this type of ID theft

and don't help resolve the problem. That's why the only plan I have for my family and all my team members is through Zander Insurance. We'll be right back. is the smartest, most affordable way to protect yourself and your family. That's ZanderInsurance.com. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Brandon and Anna are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome, welcome. So where do you live? Commerce City, Colorado, just outside of Denver. Oh, fun. Well, you? Better than I deserve. Welcome, welcome. So where do you live? Commerce City, Colorado, just outside of Denver.

Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And all the way over here to do a debt-free screen. Yes, sir. Love it. How much have you paid off? $296,000 in 10 years. Woo! Love it. Good for you. In 10 years. Yes, sir.

And your range of income during that 10 years? 75 to 135. Okay. what do you guys do for a living i'm a business development uh for an engineering firm and i'm a teacher great good for you very cool so 296 000 over 10 years i'm guessing that might be your house that is the house and everything you paid off your house i'm looking at weird people that's right you are debt free yes there we go yes i like it good for you what's this house worth uh right now uh with the increased economy it's around 360 380 and it's yours it is i love it well tell me the story what happened on this 10 years ago to start you on this journey?

Oh, about 11 years ago, 2007, I got laid off on my birthday and felt pretty low. It was kind of a low point in life, fairly new marriage, and wasn't able to bring home the bacon, per se. And so started my own company, guiding deer and turkey hunts, trying to make things work. And then 2008 came around, and I happened to see Financial Peace at our church and got started on the program. Oh, Financial Peace class at church. That's simple. And here we go. But you'd had that wake-up call that made you say, we're going to get serious.

Yep. Very cool. Very cool. So you still do guides? I do, absolutely, 12 years now. I love it. That it that's fun good for you so that's your side hustle it is nowadays yeah okay very good so um you start out on the plan after in 2008 after going through the class did you have a bunch of other debt too oh yes yeah so we had about $96,000 in consumer debt just being normal. Yeah.

And we needed a four-wheeler, and we needed a hot tub, and we needed lots of stuff. Well, you have to have a lot of firearms. Yeah. Because your ratio of firearms to deer or to turkeys is important. Yep. Yep. All right, but you cleaned all that up, and then you just kept going. It went on after the house.

We did. We did. So you followed the baby steps to a T for a decade. Yep, all the way through. Wow. Yeah, it really got us on the same page because for the first four years, it was a lot of fun because we watched the debt just go away, and the cards go away, and the payments no more. And then the house came. Slowed down. Yeah, you start doing baby step four you get baby step three done you get the emergency fund there's a lot of relaxing then

right but then everything just kind of slows down it took you six years after that to pay off the house yeah it really shouldn't have but you're right we did uh 22 000 in our emergency fund that's not bad and then we decided the is seven years, so you beat the average. Yeah, and then we decided to start really putting a lot more money towards the house. And pretty soon we're doubling house payments and more than doubling house payments.

And once you hit five digits, you're no longer in the six digits, then it gets more exciting and we start really really throwing everything we have towards it. Yeah, once you got it down under $100K, and it's kind of like that old consumer debt you had, which you did in four years, you know, yeah, so you're going, okay. And we don't even have those payments, and we make more than we used to.

Right. So, boom, game on. Yeah, you really, and so if you said out of that six or seven years that you worked on the house, you probably, I'm going to guess and say you paid off 50% of it in the last two. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we did $69,000 in the last year. Yeah. Nine months. That's not unusual because your momentum, your emotional momentum picks up and you sacrifice deeper.

Yeah. Good for you guys. You're classic. You're perfect. You don't have a house payment. You're so weird. Nothing. Good for you guys. That's your classic. You're perfect. You don't have a house payment. You're so weird. Nothing. How does it feel?

Oh, it's great. It's great. Well, and I'm in the middle of teaching my third FPU class now, so it's nice to be able to help bring that to them and show them it's real. Yeah. You can do it. And it's a decade. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, we didn't microwave this. We crock-potted. We did. This is cooking it slow and good, you know? But this is how you do it right. You guys did it perfectly. So well done.

Congratulations. Thank you. Well done. And you brought the kiddos with you. We did. And what are their names and ages? Abby's nine and Hunter's six. All right.

So have they figured out what all of this means? Because it happened while they were alive, while they being born yeah right they did in fact um when we went to pay our last mortgage payment for our house we brought them with us to the bank and they got in part of the whole process and they absolutely loved it the lady at the bank she didn't even know how to process it because she said, nobody does this. Nobody does this. I'll have to call headquarters. I have no idea really where to even begin. But these guys were part of it all. Well, they're popping up pictures of them there on the YouTube channel, holding the signs, we're debt free at the bank. Yeah, that's good. Because that way they remember

it. Because this is the day, I mean, the day you paid off your house they tell their grandkids i remember mama day took us to the bank we held signs up they'll have that memory yeah and it changes things because then when they get married and the husband or wife wants to go in death they're like no right you know i mean they'd be just like it's like we don't do that no i mean it'd be like marrying into the ramses you know no right oh man that's that's see that's how you change it. You marked a milestone. I'm so proud of y'all. Who was outside cheering you on?

Outside of your family. We had a lot of family parents cheered us on. And then, you know, I can't keep quiet, so I'd spread it with all my hunting clients. And I had a lot of cheerleaders in there as well that kept it going. And the classes you've taught, too. They've got to be cheering you on while you're leading financial peace absolutely and the kids they tell everybody too they're pretty excited i like these guys well their life has changed i mean you guys are going to be multi-millionaires it's going to be uh their life is completely shifted right it's amazing so

well done well done i'm so proud of you you You guys are neat. What a great story. Thank you. Great story. Well, we've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you. This is your next chapter for sure. Everyday Millionaires. You may already be there. You're pretty close. Pretty close.

With the value of this house and some 401K money and stuff. You're going to be there before you know it. And then we're going to have to just work on the deck of millionaire things. There you go. So, well done, guys. Well done. It's a great story because you persevered for so long. Yes.

And what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Just power through it. It's not a microwave plan. You've got all the tools. You just got to stick with it and do the heavy lifting. Yeah. What enabled you to stick with it, do you think? My rock star wife.

Yeah. Yeah. That's helpful. Yeah. We were our biggest cheerleaders we sat down and worked through a lot of things together yeah yeah i just don't i don't think you've hardly got a shot if you don't do it together yeah yeah communication especially when you start i mean 10 months you can pull it off but 10 years yeah you can't you can't drag anybody 10 years. Yeah. All you do is get bloody. I mean, it's just bad.

But you guys did it together. How old are you two? 39 and 38. Oh, you're not even 40. And your house is paid for. Wow. I love this. Yes.

All right. Brandon, Anna, Abby, and Hunter. Their house and everything is paid off. $296,000 paid off in 10 years, making $75,000 to $135,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

We're debt-free! Yeah! That's how you do it! Oh, baby! Hey, listen. Ten years. How old are you right now? Listen to this.

In ten years, you're going to be ten years older. Where are you going to be? Ten years? Where are you going to be 10 years where are you going to be they just showed you they were making 75 000 a year they had two kids raising them while they're doing this raising their income up to 135 over that period of time went through job losses, job changes. Life has happened. Ten years.

You're going to be ten years older anyway. You might as well be doing something to go somewhere on purpose. Because you're not going to get to winning on accident. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 25, 4 and 5. Show me your ways, Lord. Teach me your paths. Guide me in your truth and teach me. For you are God my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long.

Ralph Waldo Emerson said, Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail. That's a classic. Yeah, very good stuff. Well, if you've ever felt stupid because you couldn't understand your taxes, Amy is one of our fans, and she had a different experience after working with one of the tax-endorsed local providers. I've never had someone try to help me understand how taxes work until I worked with my ELP. She helped me fully understand it, and now we found our CPA.

Thanks for recommending a tax professional. DaveRamsey.com slash ELP. Click ELP for taxes, and they'll help you do your taxes. If you're ready to do investing, it's the same thing. It's called a SmartVestor Pro. You're the SmartVestor. The person you sit with that's a professional in the business is called a SmartVestor Pro. That's what we call them. So you click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com and you can sit down with someone that helps you understand, like Amy understood her taxes, the SmartVestor Pro can help you understand your investing.

And a recent study shows that 51% of employees who change jobs leave their old 401K with their previous employer, when that probably ought to be less than 2% of the people do that. Always take your 401K with you and do a direct transfer rollover into an IRA. A Pro can help you do that. You can pick better mutual funds and have better access to your information and your selection and even make adjustments with 8,000 mutual funds out there by rolling it to an IRA.

And that's what we always recommend. So anytime you're dealing with your kid's college investing, a 401K rollover, you're wanting to set up a 401K for your small business, you're wanting to invest, a 401k for your small business um you're wanting to you know invest invest invest smart vesters smart vestor pros are used by smart vestors you are a smart investor click smart vestor at daveramsey.com these tax professionals these smart vestor pros do not work for me their company their individuals are people that pay us an endorsement fee, but we will not allow them to be endorsed by us if they don't have the heart of a teacher, they don't walk you through and make sure you understand,

and their advice does not align with what we teach. And so you're not going to hear one thing here on the air and then get something else from one of these folks. That's simple. Alex is with us in Orlando. Hi, Alex. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. It's a pleasure to talk to you. You too. What's up? So I just want to jump right into it. I work at a hospital. I have the opportunity for a lot of overtime, but unfortunately, I can't really move up unless I go to school. I'm currently $32,000 to $37,000 in debt. I'm wondering if it's worth it to go to

school to kind of boost my level of income or just work the overtime and be able to knock out the debt. Okay, so what do you do? I'm a clinical engineer. I basically just fix medical equipment. Okay, and going to school in order to move up means what? It would be a two-year electronics degree, which is paid for by Florida Prepaid, which my family set up for me, and it would boost my income by about $10,000 a year. Why? Do you not know how to do that stuff already? I mean, I personally do. It's just kind of like what's the general requirement by most companies that are looking for clinical engineers. Because the current position that I'm in, I was hired in by a company that basically put me on an entry-level position.

Yeah, and you worked your way up, and you have more knowledge than someone with a certification is what I'm hearing. Not necessarily. So when I was hired on, my current position was the entry-level position, which is just a medical equipment technician. To move up to what's called a biomed, you would need that certification or at least two to three years of experience. Okay.

And what does that cost? You have the money to go in your prepaid, right? Yes. It would just be the cost of books. Okay. And so you work 40 hours a week and you would go to school at night? Yes. And you can finish in two years?

More than likely, yes. and the only downside is that slows down how fast you pay off your debt correct go go to class okay i'm with you it makes sense okay and then tighten your budget and um how many nights a week will you be in class uh it'll be three to four nights a week okay and how And how old are you? I'm 24. And what are you doing on Saturday? Saturday, usually nothing. You're working extra to get out of debt. Okay. I'm not letting you off the hook completely.

But I think you have a valid thing, okay? Alex, sometimes when someone says, I need a degree to move up, they think there's a barrier that's not there. I think your barrier is real, though. Okay. I'm hearing what you're saying, and I don't know enough about your industry to be 100% sure, but the way you've described it was logical. I think your critical thinking skills are solid.

I think you've observed something that's very real here. But sometimes people go, well, nobody in our company moves ahead and i'm like now you know people they actually get their stuff together and do their work on time with the people that move ahead in most industries so sometimes that degree thing is a is mythology it's not what's holding you back but in your case it's a cert and there's some knowledge that takes you into a bio you know level of this it's a different thing and so um yeah that's what i would do i would do this but i also what are you making during your day job now my day job uh annually if i don't work extra overtime it's around 32 and you're living on

your own and you're how old did you say um i live with my wife, actually, and I'm 24. Oh, and does she work at the home? No, no, no. She works as a retail associate. She brings in an extra, like, $12,000 a year. Okay. And you have children? No.

Okay. Well, she needs a better career. Her sucks. Yeah. She just moved over here because we just got married um like back in december so she just moved over here and had to find something because she was uh she's also in debt so okay well let's rephrase this we are in debt because we are married yes we have an income that can be accentuated by getting hers up because hers is awful,

and you can work some weekends while you get your income up by going to school on the four nights a week. How much debt did she bring into this? $10,000, $11,000. Okay, so $46,000. And if she gets her income from $12,000 to where it should be okay pretty quick because she can do that and you get your income up with a little bit of saturday type overtime now we've got a pretty good household income to attack 45 000 worth of debt while you still go to school yeah you can do all of that all of that's doable. You're young. You've got energy. I'm proud of you, man. Get after it. You can do this.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. The danger of the student loan crisis is that people have begun to say no one needs to go to college. That is not true. No one needs to go to a college they can't afford, and no one should go and study something not necessary for them to win in a career or their career unless they just have extra money. If you want to go study something for the sheer sake of knowledge and you have extra money, your parents want to give you $100,000 to go do that, that's fine. But you don't need to go into debt to get a degree in a field that is not applicable in the marketplace

from a place that charges you six times more than your state school would have charged you. Now, he's going in tech deal for two years. He's getting a tech cert that's not going to cost him hardly anything plus like family has saved the money for him to do that he's 24 that's all very very wise so education is smart bad education education is not useful that you go into debt for and you pay 4x what you should have paid for it is dumb. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

Being dumb is not a plan. Study somewhere, something that's usable and pay cash for it. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Blake Thompson, Senior Executive Producer for the show. You know, you can listen or watch anywhere with the Dave Ramsey Show app on your smartphone.

Catch the full show or watch the highlights and check out Dave's upcoming guests. Head to the app store and download it today.