The Ramsey Show - App - Breaking the Paycheck-to-Paycheck Cycle (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

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🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. I am joined by one of my favorite co-hosts, Rachel Cruz, bestselling author, host of The Rachel Cruz Show. And we are joined together, joined forces to answer your questions about life, money, relationships, the holiday season, whatever is sticking in your crawl. We are going to help it come out of your crawl as we take your calls.

Give us a call. The number is 888-255-225. And we'll chop it up with you. Let's go straight to the phone lines. We've got LJ from Tulsa, Oklahoma. What's going on, LJ? Yes, thanks for taking my call. No problem. How can we help?

I'm kind of new to all this. I just recently heard about y'all because some friends are talking about a concept of debt snowball versus a debt avalanche and it got me curious so I started looking and researching all up and found the baby steps and I got some savings but I saw I'm trying to pay off debt so I'm looking all the places to get my like hands-on money you know to help pay debt off yeah and I have a 401k that they call the target date 401k from a previous job. Is there any

downsides or is that a good place to look at getting money to help pay off debt since I'm currently in a 457 at my new job? Yeah. I mean, I love the fact that you're looking for ways to pay off your debt and I love that you feel that it's urgent for you to quickly get your debt paid off. But I would not pull from retirement savings of any kind in order to do that. And, you know, the fact that you once had a 401k and now you have a 457, that's not really a license to do that because it's still retirement money. And so there's still penalties and fees if you were to dip into that money. Not to mention, that's not truly the solution, right? We don't want you robbing from Peter to pay Paul.

And so I think the solution for you is probably going to be finding that money either by picking up extra work or cutting back areas in your budget. LJ, your 401k that was with your previous job, is it still there? Have you rolled it over into a traditional IRA? It's still with the company that I left it with.

Okay, so I would recommend actually taking that out and just rolling it over to a traditional IRA. One of our SmartVestor Pros in your area can help you do that. But yeah, I wouldn't leave my 401k with a job that i'm not at currently so rolling that over just to ira is one move you could do it won't help with the debt payoff but it will help with your investing uh overall picture okay so not to put it with the new 457 government program that i have no i would keep it separate and just a traditional IRA. Yeah. So that you're not paying taxes. And then how much debt do you have, LJ? About $33,000. Okay. And how much do you make a year? My mortgage. Me and my wife combined make about $90,000. Okay, that's great. Look, you can be out of this debt in a year. I mean, if you were, if you guys decided,

hey, we're going to live on $60,000, you're out in 12 months. And that's not, that's not including extra side hustles, which you could easily decide to pick up. Right. So what do you think about that? That actually sounds really good. It'd be awesome to get out of all this debt. Does it seem possible? Like when I said that, did you go, oh, yeah, we can do that? Or was that like, oh, you, Jade? What did you think? Well, it sounds great. I just thought it would take more like two or three years. No, the good news is you can do this really quickly. I mean, just looking at the numbers and like I said, you guys cutting down your lifestyle, which is going to take you guys getting on a budget, which are you already on a budget? A loose one.

A loose one. What are you using? Is it, what are you using currently? We just run our numbers through, you know, like Excel spreadsheets. Yeah. Well, I want to get you guys hooked up with EveryDollar because it is the best budgeting app that is out there and it'll help you get a really, really clear picture on what your numbers are every single month and it'll help you set those goals. You can really get in there and see like to the date when you're gonna be done paying off your debt and you get to adjust that money and adjust those payments in order to get it done

either faster or push it down a little bit. So that's our gift to you today. Look, I'm really proud of you. That's a really, really great call. Thank you so much for the call, LJ. Look, you can do it. And I think a lot of people, Rachel, do think that, oh, I can get out of debt, but it's going to take me all these years in the future. But then when they really start crunching the numbers, they're like, hey, I can do this even faster than what I once thought I could.

Exactly. All right. Let's go to Kevin. He's in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Kevin? Let's make it a quick one. Hey, how you doing? Doing good. How are you doing? Doing good. How are you? Good. It's fun to talk to you guys.

You too. So I'll make it short and simple. I just paid off like $10,000 in credit card debt. I'm on baby step number two. Good for you. So my next loan to attack is my truck loan. And it's my only thing I have left, but it's a high one. It's around $83,000 left. it's a high one it's around 83 000 left it used to be

94 it used to be 94 000 but now it's at 83 because i make extra payments what kind of truck is this this is a souped up for an f-250 lariat is it for work purposes no it's just pure luxury i'm one of those that just has the truck for luxury. I don't pull nothing. How much do you make a year, Kevin? I make about $14,000 a month. Okay. Yeah.

It gave or take. Like sometimes it could be $10,000, $12,000, $14,000. Yeah. Depends on how much I want to work. I'm selling it. Yeah? I'm selling it. I'm selling it. I would. Kevin, $83,000

in a truck that has debt that's going down in value that you're paying interest on? Wow. It took me a while to get it because it was like I had to pre-order it. I believe it. I'm sure you did.

Yeah, I bet. And so I do want to add it to the debt snowball, but I just, I'm trying to figure out how to go about it. If I should just pay more every month or just save up one giant sum

and just pay it off. No, no. You want to be paying on it. Yes. As you get extra cash flow, you're throwing it at the truck. But we would, I mean, I would run the numbers, Kevin. would kelly blue book it run a scenario look on craigslist look at

you know local dealerships for other trucks and just for a for a second just think oh my gosh because how much is your payment it's about 1700 a month oh lord sell it kevin kevin kevin run the Oh, Lord. Sell it. Kevin. Kevin. Kevin, run the numbers. Okay, go to RamseySolutions.com and pull up our investment calculator. If you invested $1,700 a month, if you invested that, Kevin, do you know how much money you would have? I wish I had my computer on. I would do it right now. I'm a skeleton. Kevin, we're back.

I'm dead. I am just. Wow. And do you have other debt besides this? Or is this going to be it? This is it. This is really my only payment I have a month is because all my other expenses are paid for.

So, wow. Kevin. Rachel, you keep the conversation going. I'll do the investment calculator. You got to go. We got like 30 seconds. Okay. I would, I mean, Kevin, I'm not going to sit here and like convince you.

You're a grown man. You can do what you want. But our biggest goal is that we want your money working for you, not against you. There are so much of your income and heart. You make incredible money. I mean, $150 to $160 a year that actually be building wealth for your family. You could actually be changing your legacy and building your wealth with this versus sending it to a,

where Ford motor company or wherever it is going. Right? So, so there's, there's power and letting your money work for you versus it working for a car dealership. And that's what you're doing right now with this truck. Wow.

If you did, if you did 1700 a month to $2 225 dollars after 25 years 25 years you could have two million dollars this is the ramsey show you're listening to the ramsey show i'm jade warshaw joined by rachel cruz give us a call the number is 888-825-5225. We'd be happy to hear from you. We'll go straight to the phone lines where we've got Caleb in North Carolina. What's going on, Caleb? Hi. So my question is, so I work with my dad after I'm done with school like two or three times a week. And I make like $80 a week. And I want to know what I can do with my money right now to set up myself for my future.

My goodness, Caleb, how old are you? I'm 12. Wow, that's so impressive. What kind of work do you do with your dad? We go to people's houses and fix like washers, dishwashers, refrigerators, and like microwaves and stuff like that. Caleb let me tell you not just the money you earn is helpful but knowing how to do all of that later in life in about 10 years I know right people will be very thankful to be your friends because you not a lot of people know how to fix all that stuff Caleb so I love that you're even learning that that trade now that's amazing amazing. Well, I would love to hear what Jade would say about this

because we both have kids, Caleb. So we think about this a lot for our kids. But the fact that you're earning money like this, I think is fantastic. So I think the first conversation I would have looking to the future, the big purchase you'll probably have in your future is a car when you turn 16.

So I'd ask your parents what their plan is for that. If they have, if they were thinking about, you know, if they would have the money that they were going to plan on maybe buying you a used car or if they were going to expect you to maybe pay for that or maybe they would match what you save. But I would probably have a conversation first and foremost about a car, which seems kind of far away.

I know you're 12 and 16 seems far. But there's really, besides just buying some things that you may just want for fun, I think working towards a big purchase is a really great goal at your age. I'd agree with that. Yeah, I use every dollar and I have my financial plan for December. I'm going to put 80% of my stuff into 80% of my money into savings and then 10% into tithes and 10% into fun money. Wow. Good for you. Caleb, so what do you spend money on right now as a 12-year-old? What are things that are fun for you to spend money on?

Well, to be honest, I like going, I like, I spend it on video games, to be honest. Yeah. Hey, that's great. That's great. That's great. Good for you, Caleb. Wow. Very impressive.

And your parents. Look, when you get off the phone, give your parents a big hug because they have really taught you well. And for those listening, he is doing right. Like you do three things with money. You can give it, save it or spend it. So he's decided to save 80%, which is a lot. That's a lot.

Great. That's great. And then you're giving 10% and spending 10%. And in your case, yeah, I think spending on video games sounds wonderful. I don't have anything to add to this, Caleb. I just want to say thank you for your call. You're doing such a good job. Come over to my house and fix the dishwasher. Or be a co-host here and help some people out because you're doing real good for 12 years old. Wow. I know. That's right.

Shout out to the parents. I know. Well done. So great. Thanks for calling, Caleb. Thank you so much. Oh, my goodness. Let's go to Lauren in Dallas, Texas. What's going on in your world, Lauren? Hi. So my mother-in-law lives with us. She's going to be moving out in June when our lease is up. Our rent is $2,400 and she pays $800 of that. So I'm getting a raise in January, which will increase our income about $550 a month. My question is, since we're kind of paycheck to paycheck right now, should we use the raise to save for a security deposit and moving expenses and move somewhere less expensive in June? Or should we use the raise to pay off debt until the lease is up and then stay in our current home come June?

Hmm, the lease is up in June. How much do you guys make a month? Currently about 106. With my raise, we'll be up to about 115. A year? Yes. Okay, okay. And what do you take home each month like what do you see when you take home your check each month um about

55 55 okay good um how much debt do you guys have? Quite a bit. With cars, credit cards, medical debt, student loans, all that, we're at about $100,000. Okay, $100,000. And you said it's cars, medical debt, credit cards, just kind of normal. Yeah, well, with your current income, yeah, $2,400 a month for rent. I mean, that's, that's bumping up to close to half your, your income. So I, yeah, this is too of an expensive place, Lauren, that where you guys currently are. So if your lease is up in June, I mean, you probably can't, I don't know if you can break the lease or what, if you can move out sooner,

but I would work towards looking for a new place in June, especially since your mother-in-law is not going to be living with you guys. Yep, find the cheapest place that you can. And then from there, start working the debt snowball. But between now and then, I would start the debt snowball though, Lauren. I would find that. What is your smallest debt out of everything

you listed probably a credit card okay which is how much how much do you owe on that um two thousand okay so yeah i would make it a goal you know to start chipping that away and and um working extra? And I guess is the $115,000 a year include you and your husband's income? Yes. Okay. So yeah, I mean, you're making good money, but you also have a good amount of debt, $100,000. So I'm going to say that there's probably going to be a season of side hustles and earning some extra income. Do you guys have kids? Yeah, we have three okay um so yeah so that's always a tricky thing to navigate and jade i know you and sam did that with kids too and so like it just that adds a dynamic that's very real yeah um that makes

it difficult but i think for you guys to be as focused as possible and map this out but I sadly Lauren I don't I can't in good faith tell you to stay where you are when half of your income is going to be going to this rent because it's just it's you guys will not be able to get traction of paying off this debt no definitely not I look I agree wholeheartedly have you priced out some cheaper apartments in your area yeah we're currently have two dogs also. So we're in a house right now. So I feel like we need to stay in a house just because there are a family of five with two dogs. It's a little chaotic in our apartment, I can imagine. So we're kind of on the outskirts of Dallas where it's cheaper, but I'm not sure kind of what we can find that's going to

fit us that's going to be cheaper. Yeah, cheaper yeah you gotta find you're definitely gonna need to find something otherwise i mean it goes one or two ways you either see your income going up substantially like 25 more to where this knocks down to where it's supposed to be or you find an apartment or a home to rent that's 25 less yeah. Yeah. And Lauren, and remember, this is just for, this is temporary, which I know it's like, it sounds, it sounds, it's easy on our side of the desk to be like, go find another place to move. And you're thinking of all the logistics and uprooting your family. Like I know it's a lot. I know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it is, it's a lot. So there's either going to have to be what Jade said, substantial income raises that you guys are just working

extra, but I don't want you to do that to have to float a necessary payment like rents, right? Like if you're doing that to pay off debt, that's a seasonal thing. But I don't want your lifestyle currently where you guys, you just can't afford where you live. And so I think that there is going to have to be some really hard conversations. And it's kind of one of those things, Lauren, you know, choosing your hard. And we talk about this a lot, like where you are now currently with money is hard, right? You're feeling the stress. You're feeling like, oh my gosh, we have so much debt. I'm stressed.

I don't like this. Like that's hard. It's also hard to move and to downsize and to make some tough decisions with schools and the logistics of your family. That's not fun. That's hard. But at least at the end of that hard,

there's a level of peace that comes because you can actually breathe and get some control where this hard that you're in, if you just stay where you are, literally physically in that house, but also where you are financially, it's going to continue to have this hard. And I would choose the latter, the latter hard. I would too, because like you said, that intensity that you put in, that's not supposed to be the way your life is lived. Right, right.

Like you'll just, everything you do is like, I'm just working to live. You know, I'm just working to do this house payment. And then you're going to hate your house because. Oh, it's taking you away from your kids. Exactly. Yeah, it's a burden, not a blessing that we talk about a lot on this show. That's right. This is The Ramsey Show.

What's going on, friends? You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I am your host this hour, Jade Warshaw, joined along with bestselling author and author of the new book, I'm Glad For What I Have. Yes. Yes. Love it. Right. Rachel Cruz is sitting next to me today and we're taking your calls about your life and your money. So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. And I have to tell you guys, it's always an exciting day when someone pops into the office and is like, Jade, have you seen this latest video on TikTok? And I'm always like, no, I haven't because I don't hang out on TikTok but I'm always very entertained on what they bring and so today there was a video that came across Rachel and I was like this is crazy you haven't seen it yet no I'm not but I thought it would be cool and James was like hey we need to watch this and we need to see you guys's reaction to it so go ahead and give it a whirl. I feel like my husband and I are doing everything

right. We both have good jobs. I'm a nurse. I'm a registered nurse. I work full time. He works full time. We just got paid this past Friday, right? We paid the mortgage bought some groceries put some gas in the car and guys it is tuesday and we have like two or three hundred dollars to last us until next friday like we don't live in a big house we we live in a little ranch it's 1100 square feet three bedrooms one bath us and our two kids i'm so stressed out this isn't how it's supposed to be you know growing up we were told go to college get a degree work to support your family here we are did that know what know what oh man listen you should know that we did edit it down that that video quite a bit because it was pretty long okay and she's emotional the entire time

and she also does mention rachel that she works full-time as a registered nurse her husband works full-time as well and does side work they have two kids is what she says and she says in the video that we just got paid on friday paid the mortgage yeah just mortgage gas and groceries and now to only have two to three hundred dollars that's like the yeah that's crazy look i have my take on it you tell me yours whoa okay um my knee jerk is I feel like we get callers like this a lot. I do. I mean, I feel like the state of money is not always pretty and it's really stressful. And even when you do, you know, we even talk to people on baby steps four through six and

they're like, oh my gosh, it still kind of feels tight because like we're having the fun kids you know and all of that is is is real but they're not at a breaking point at what she is at so my natural reaction is how much is the mortgage yeah how much are you guys making a month what other debt so you just got Yes. And you only have three to it. So that means that they only really if they really only did groceries, gas and mortgage. That means, yes, there's a ratio. Yeah, they're off somewhere. Yes. And and if you only have two to three hundred dollars left in your account, that means the other paycheck you got 15 days ago is gone, too.

What is that going to? Are there other payments? You know what I mean? Like as it starts to decrease that much. Well, let's look at this in a real way. Okay. So let's say she got paid on the 30th, which is like the first for most people. Okay.

And if they paid their whole mortgage, that's most people's biggest bill. So that's gone. And then if they spent half their grocery money, half their gas money, then I'm like, okay, the next check is if they've got two kids. We don't know how old they are. Let's say they're're in daycare age maybe the next biggest chunk goes to daycare then then other half goes to gas other half goes groceries my question still is if you can only pay three things then there's something ratio there's a ratio that's off yes like we say 25 for housing but also i would want want to know where else is that?

Right. So like where did the 15th paycheck from the month before? Yes. Where is that all going? Yes. Is there payments to car payments sitting in the driveway? You know what I mean? Like I want to know so many other things.

I mean, she says, quote, we did every we've done everything right. Which I feel because that is that is a sentiment. What she said is you're told go to college. In fact, when I went to school, you know, which was 15 years ago, there was no even talk of of, hey, let's look at price tags. It was really go where you can get in. You go and you'll get a great job. Yes. Working 40 hours a week.

Everything's going to be fine. Right. And she says, I don't know if it was in this video because I've seen both versions. Did she say that she's going to school full time too? No. She's going to.

Okay. So that wasn't in the clip, guys. She's going to school full time as well. Which is a big expense. So here's my take. Here's, this is just me. She says, okay, I'm working full time, going to school full time.

Papa's working full-time he's got a second job plus two kids forget finances i'm just crying every day anyway because that's just a lot like let's be honest that's just a lot in life overwhelmed the number of hours in a day so part of me also feels like there could be a piece of this that's like if she's going to school full-time somewhere else too yeah i'm like stress will make everything seem worse. Yes. Right. And when you feel stretched on your time, it makes everything harder. Like those $300 that they have all of a sudden just feels like even less. Right. Because like, I don't want to cook tonight and I don't want like there's a lot that feeds into that. And so part of me just wonders, well, I have two thoughts. A, I'm like, are you paying your way

through school? That's a big piece of the budget. Or are you going into debt for school? That not only adds to debt, but also stress. So I just see a real domino effect that seems to be taking place. And part of me wonders, okay, do you guys need to pull back in some way? Maybe you need to wait on school. Do you know, is it going to ROI the money you think it's going to ROI? Like there's so many things.

Listen, at the end of the day, she needs to call us. And we need to help her with her budget. And I'm like, maybe it's because we're on the Ramsey show watching this, but I automatically would be like, how much are the car payments? How much are the debt? Like, because that's always our thing. And again, this may not be her situation, but statistically speaking could easily fall into this scenario

where there's two $600 car payments in the driveway. And that's $1,200 that's gone every single month out of a paycheck. So like there are real things that could be happening behind the scenes numbers wise that could actually free her up. I believe I would want I would want to know. Yeah, because if you're a registered nurse, you're making great money. And if your husband's working full time and on top of that, working a side hustle. And if you're in a state where the nurses don't make a lot of money, maybe you need to move. Because that pay changes depending on where you live.

Yeah, that's true. You know, like plenty of people all the time are in jobs where theoretically they should be earning more, but they happen to be in a place where they're just not earning that much. And so in this case, I feel like that could be at play but i don't think that we heard this part either in this clip but she also goes on to say someone needs to do something about this like and she starts talking about the state of the economy and she does say like you don't like don't comment to me about trump and don't comment to me about Biden but this is an economy problem and someone needs to fix it maybe if we all band together some someone will fix this and someone will hear us and come help us and I'm like if you're to the point and this is not criticism by the way like I'm saying this as a person who is I had that

same I've had a moment in my jeep liberty with my husband when I told him to pull the car over because this cannot go on any further. And I like seeing her cry through tears like I know what that is. Yes. And I felt that. But at the same time, you can either look at that as a moment of someone come help us. Someone needs to do something or go. I need to do something. I can't keep living like this.

My husband and I have to change like where is that side of it yep yep because that's the complete flip of the perspective that's a great point that's a great point you know because i'm not like i'm not trying to be ugly or you know incompassionate but the fact is probably no one's gonna knock on your door and go i'm here to save you like no one's gonna to do that. The government, look, they're just going to keep on ticking and keep on. And I don't want you to keep living like that. So my guess is there's probably not a real budget in place because when there is a real budget, you can see, like you said, if those ratios are off, if you're like, wow, we're paying

50% for this 1100 square house, you know, that's too much like you you'll be able to see those numbers so yeah and i think you're right that the idea that you have to advocate for yourself no one is going to come save you and that's true with your health with your i mean like all these areas of life not just money but you do get to a point as a grown-up where you're like oh my gosh i felt this with my kids, like, at the doctor or something. I'm like, oh, there's no one else. Like, it's me. It's me that's having to do this, right?

So, like, there's a moment where you have to be the advocate for yourself and your advocate for change. And it's hard. But what she's feeling, a lot of people feel. Because it has been a hard year, you guys. It's been a hard year. But we also want to look at the numbers. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.

This is Rachel Cruz. And we are taking your calls all hour. Give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. We'd be happy to hear from you. Let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Diana from New York. New York. What's going on, Diana?

Hi, ladies. I'm well. I'm just outside of New York. I'm in Connecticut. And I am calling because my husband and I, we've been married 11 years. We have three amazing kids. And we are struggling. When we first got married, my husband really struggled. He was laid off from a job just before our wedding, and it was unexpected. We were given the choice when we had a wedding. I have super savvy, money-savvy parents, and I just kind of thought that the lifestyle would somehow continue. And we were keeping up with the Joneses, and we chose the wedding over the down payment for the house. We were paying, you know, higher rents,

and it put us in a position where we made very bad decisions with credit cards. And we've honestly been struggling just ever since. Income-wise, we're in a good place right now. But we had two kids 11 months apart within the year of getting married. And now we have a little girl that's just about to turn four. But we still have that credit card debt from like six, seven years ago. And we're in debt and we're living paycheck to paycheck, no matter how much we make, it just never seems to be enough.

And I just really want to get smart with our money. And I just feel like we're in this big hole and we can't get out of it because of our past. And we have about $65,000 total worth of debt. And we don't even touch $45,000 of that. And because we have poor credit, you know, we pay high interest rates for our cars and, you know, have all along. And we were just finally on the path to homeownership. And two months, two years ago, two months before we closed on our house, my husband was laid off again. And fortunately, we never missed a beat. The paycheck, he was reemployed within two months and ended up income wise getting more. But at that point, we had no choice.

We were going to lose the house yeah so my mom fortunately stepped in and took on the mortgage for us um but uh so you're in the house now we are in the house now and who's paying for it now yeah we are we're safe okay like I said my parents fortunately um are what is the opposite of me. What is the mortgage? Can I get a few particulars from you? Sure. Okay. How much are you guys making a year? My husband makes about $125, and I make about $25.

And then we each have a few occasional side hustles, but they're seasonal. So per month, we bring in anywhere between $9,600 and $10,500 a month. Okay. And can you go through and list out each debt that you have that totals up to $65,000? We have about $45,000 in personal loan. We have $14,000 in personal loan. We have 14,000 on a car. Fortunately, we were able to, before we purchased our home, we got rid of his car because he went fully remote during the pandemic. And so we're a one car family now. I did get into, unfortunately, a car accident. And so the car that was paid off was totaled. We probably made a mistake by, you know, buying a car worth more than what we had.

But we've got $14,000 in the car loan remaining. And we put about $20,000 down when we bought the car two years ago. Okay, what other debt so we've got the 45 000 personal loan 14 000 on a car yeah and then um about 5 000 um i would say in a credit card debt five and probably about 4 000 in medical okay so you've got a really good income this is good um the 65 000 of debt and the one thing I also want to ask you is your mortgage payment. I wanted to know how much your mortgage payment is every month. It's $2,500. Okay. Not a problem. And anytime we get ahead, I mean, just like with home oil, you know, once we get a delivery, we're back to zero.

And, you know, and plus we have poor credit. So we have nothing to, you know, float us. Well, to be honest with you, when I look at your debt, there's nothing on here that I go, oh, my gosh, they're drowning in payments. Like you've got a lot of debt here. But I also wonder if you guys is spending it is where it's like where you're spending is out of control because I'm looking, I'm like, okay, a $4,000 medical debt, $5,000 in credit cards. If you're paying minimum payments and you're making 10,500 a month, that's not what's sinking you, right? Your $14,000 car

is not what's sinking you. You know, does that make sense? Yeah, I'm definitely the one causing that, and I recognize that. I definitely have a hard time with not keeping up with the Joneses. And, you know, I definitely, I'm definitely the spender, and I'm definitely the cause of, I think, a lot of that, too. You know, we tend to eat out a lot because we're busy with the kids, and we're working, and paired with, you know, trips to Marshalls and HomeGoods. See, that's where the money's going. And I'm glad that you recognize that it's you doing that.

The question is, what's going to happen to change that? Because here's the thing. You could pay off all this debt, but if you don't get your spending under control, you're still going to spend away all the money that you're supposed to be using to do things like save and invest and this is going to be an ongoing problem for you even if you guys manage to pull yourselves out of debt over time so we've got to get a handle on that and I'm guessing you're not on any real budget it's kind of just pay the bills and everything else is up for grabs kind of thing yeah I try a budget but then you, something happens or we need home oil, heating oil, or, you know, I have a rare eye condition and, you know, a contact lens tears

and I need a contact lens that weirdly isn't covered by the insurance company. And it's just like one thing after another, it seems. And anytime we get a nest egg, it just seems like something pops up. Okay, well, that's where your budget is going to help you. Because if you're doing a good budget, you're going through every single dollar and you're assigning it with a purpose. And you're choosing. Like, budgets include more things than just rent, mortgage, utilities. It includes things like a trip to the eye doctor or my contact lenses or a miscellaneous category for things that, you know,

there's always something that pops up in the month that's like, I didn't know this was coming, but I've got this little, you know, cushion here just in case. And so that's what a good budget boils down to. But I cannot stress it enough. At the end of the day, it's the budget is a tool. It's something that we pick up and then we wield it and use it and follow it or don't follow it right the budget doesn't do the thing for you at some point you do have to be like I'm a grown woman like I'm a grown woman absolutely who has the ability to say yes or say no and it sounds like you're kind of to that point yeah Diana there's and you've said it twice on this call so I'm going to just kind of say what you've said is keeping up with the Joneses, keeping up with the Joneses.

You know, like you've said that a few times. And, you know, money, we can talk about the numbers a lot, and that's what we're good at on this show to help you solve that. But what Jade said earlier was exactly right, that until you, Diana, like there's something in there with you. And I can say this because I'm a spender, and I get it. But I think being able to pinpoint what is it in me that is causing that? What is it? What is the insecurity in me? Because it's not other people's fault.

Right. They're living that lifestyle. But what we have to realize is, you know, comparison will always be in us. I was talking to Dr. John Zaloni about this. Like there's a core part of humans that comparison is a real thing. Like even back with our ancestors when they had to hunt and they had to figure out things,

like you're constantly sizing up things in your life and people had to do that for survival. So like that is a part of who we are. We are naturally bent to look around and see. But the problem is, is when we look around and see and suddenly we say, oh my gosh, I want what they have, because what they have is going to fulfill something in me deep within me that's that's missing.

And that's what I have to have. So there's there's some core emotional parts of this, Diana, in you specifically and in your story that I would love for you just to dive in. If you hold on, Austin will pick up because I want to give you my book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and Love Your Life, Not Theirs. It's all about comparison. Give her mine too, give her mine too. Because, oh yes, and money's not a math problem. Jade's quick read.

So this is so true for a lot of people, Diana. But if you can get Diana under control and actually start mapping out a budget, I think you guys are going to see a lot of progress. But it's hard, but you can do it. You can do it. We're pulling for you, Diana. This is The Ramsey Show. You guys are going to see a lot of progress, but it's hard, but you can do it. You can do it. We're pulling for you, Diana.

This is The Ramsey Show.