The Ramsey Show - App - Budgeting on an Inconsistent Income (Hour 2)

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they really love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today as we talk about your life, your career, and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Reed is with us. Reid is in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Reid.

How are you? Howdy, Dave. Hey, Ken. Thanks for taking my call. I'm glad to be on the show. Sure. What's up? Hey, yeah.

So my wife and I got married about nine months ago. Really excited. And we are thinking of buying a house. And we are adamant about not having any sort of credit card or credit score. Now, how do we do that? Okay. You just have to have a mortgage company that does what's called manual underwriting, like Churchill Mortgage that sponsored us here for almost 30 years here on the Ramsey Show.

They do manual underwriting. Manual underwriting is what they used to do before there was a FICO score, like when I first got in the real estate business, okay? Right. And that simply means that they, in the old days, now we wouldn't do it exactly this way today, but in the old days, we would mail, the mortgage company would mail a VOD request to your bank, a verification of deposit to see if you have money in the account to do your down payment.

They would send a VOE to your employer, a verification of employment. Your employer would write down and say, yes, he works here, and here's what he makes. Send it back to the mortgage company. That was all snail mail in the old days, right? But they actually went around, and they checked with your landlord, and they looked at your credit bureau report and saw what was actually on the credit bureau report,

what was being paid. Were you paying the bills that you have on time? And if you don't have any bills on the credit bureau report, they assumed you were smart because you are. Instead of dumb, like the FICO score says you're dumb if you don't have any bills because it's only a measure of how much you play kissy face with the bank. But that's what manual underwriting is. It means they manually actually have to verify that the human being is capable of paying the note. And then you can get the mortgage. And it's the same exact rate, no more, no less than a regular FICO score rate. The difference is if you've got a, you know, a 750 FICO score,. The difference is if you've got a 750 FICO score,

a monkey can make that loan. They just look at the number and go, whoo-hoo, big number, do it, okay. There's absolutely zero analysis, okay, other than they depend on the analysis that was created that created the FICO score to be their analysis, which is part of what caused the crash in 2008 because we were loaning people with high FICO scores money

who were actually broke. And so we had a whole bunch of broke people buying houses, and it caused the 2008 crash. That's not happening as much now. But one thing, FICO has gone in and worked on their algorithm because it sucks, but it's mathematically impalatable. But anyway, all that side issue from model soapbox but yeah you can get a mortgage just go to a mortgage company that um you know that does manual

underwriting ben is in norfolk virginia hey ben what's up hey how's it going dave thanks for taking the call appreciate it sure what's up yeah so my wife and I are be finishing up baby step three, probably January of 2023. I'm 37. I'll be retiring from the military in five years. And right now we have income enough to put so much down on our house that we can have it paid off in eight years, but I would not be able to do the 15% of my gross income into retirement. So I was wondering what your thoughts were on that. Even though I'd be gaining a military pension in five years, if I could play catch up on retirement later and just get the house paid off super fast or do, you know,

exactly for the baby steps or in that situation what you would tell people. I just like mustard better than ketchup. Thanks for your service, by the way. We appreciate you. Sure, absolutely. Here's the good news in this whole story. You're actually thinking. Most people don't bother.

We have a whole population full of freaking zombies that just go along and do whatever amazon mastercard and apple tells them to do and then they google it and google tells them they're smart and uh none of this is true by the way so um the you're you're actually using thinking skills way to go dude i'm so proud of you i'm not i'm not being facetious you really are if you pay keep paying attention like you're paying attention, you're going to be fine. Even if you don't do it perfectly, Dave, the way I would do it, okay, you're going to be fine. Because 90% of people winning is they pay attention. So, no, I would not do that.

I would get out of debt like you're planning. And in January, I'd start putting as much as you can aside for a down payment until you're ready to buy. When you buy, put the house on a 15-year fixed and start saving 15% of your income towards retirement. And, yes, you're going to have the wonderful military retirement, which I'm very happy as a taxpayer to pay you. Thank you for your service. One of the few things I actually think we do well out of D.C. But, yeah, all that to say, stay in order. Yeah, follow the order because you're going to be in such good shape. What do you plan to do in retirement from the military? What's that next chapter look like?

Yeah, so I'm not 100% sure, but I'm looking at, I finished my MBA a few years ago, and so I'm looking into project management, maybe financial advising. I'm not sure. Yeah, so the point is everything Dave said, amen, amen, amen. But you, by doing it this way, you're still going to be able to pay your house off because you're going to have that income, retirement income from the military, but you're going to be making money. And you're going to have a wonderful ladder for financial growth at a very young age. So you can do all of those things. Just follow the order of the baby steps, and I think in the long run, you're going to be glad you did.

Well, and here's the other thing. Your income is not going to stay static. No. And your numbers you're running are based on static income. So if you projected your income increases out, and then you're guessing what you're going to do when you leave the military, but you keep projecting that out, you're probably still paying the house off in eight years. Yeah, that's what I think. But it might be 10, but 10 is just fine. You know, again, because you're focusing, you're thinking, you're thinking outside of the normative,

stupid butt stuff that people do in this broke culture and you know you're not just clicking on prime all day long and then wondering why you're broke and um you know you're just being smart so that makes all the difference in the world you know ken i'm often asked in these uh interviews that i do and um and i don't anyway it always comes up what's the number one mistake people make with money in america and they always, you know, they figure I'm going to say credit card debt. Well, that's one up. Student loan debt, that's one up. Leasing a car, that's another one.

Whole life insurance, that's another one. There's too many to have one, right? But really what happens is that the answer is not paying attention. Because no one sits down and goes, hey, I want to be stupid. Right. Let's see what stupid looks like. But we just wander along like a zombie and come home with a new car or you know you impulse a bass boat oh my god

you know and so that this is what happens people don't pay attention anything that if you're going to win at anything winning is an intentional act you want to win in your marriage you have to intentionally embrace engage the process of being married. You want to raise good kids, it's not accidental. It's a lot of work because they're weird. You know, I mean, it's just a problem. So everything you win at, you got to be intentional. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host today. Today's question of the day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. As the weather warms up, Neighborly can help you find local service pros like The Grounds Guys star painting and mosquito joe which you would

need in nashville uh to turn your yeah we've got mosquitoes the size of eagles here and uh to turn your outdoor space into your favorite space and help you find all the help you need at neighborly.com we're so honored to have them as a sponsor now and april is national financial literacy month all month long, teachers and students in classrooms across America are taking the time to talk about the importance of learning money skills. Today's question comes from Alex in Minnesota. How do you create a budget that works when you are young and your income is inconsistent and unpredictable? So on this one, Dave, we've got a young person, presumably a student, who

doesn't have a lot of household expenses. He's living at home, potentially. And what we want to focus on there is, what are your expenses? What are mom and dad requiring of you? Are you doing gas money, helping out with some of your insurance, whatever that is? What are your spending habits, things you're saving for? And I think the budget there, Dave, is kind of created around that, when you don't have a livelihood or the four walls that we teach. Exactly, exactly. And that's what we teach kids, students, in the high school curriculum, foundations and personal finance.

It's taught in 48% of the high schools in America now, our high school curriculum is. And what we teach folks there, Alex, is exactly what Ken said. Your purpose of doing a budget when you're in high school or junior high school, either one, is not to become wealthy. It's not to become a master budget person. It's to start to build the muscle of telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. Which, by the way, is all a budget is. Adults devise a plan and follow it.

Children, regardless of their age, do what feels good. And so if you're 52 and you do what feels good, you are, by definition, emotionally a child. You're immature. I deserve it. Oh, shut up. You don't deserve anything. You haven't earned. That's when you deserve it. Oh, shut up. You don't deserve anything you haven't earned. That's when you deserve it. You're not entitled to a new car.

I work so hard. Oh, really? You're the only one, you whiner. Okay, so that's a child regardless of if they're 12 or they're 52. And we hear them all the time saying stuff like that. Well, you don't know yes i do know i've done it all i'm old okay and so i've seen it all heard it all the thing is so the whole thing here alex is to get you the other side of that and say okay as an adult because

we're training young people to be good adults and training young people to be good adults involves telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And so all you got to do is go this month, or I want to buy a car by September. Okay, how are we going to do that? Yeah, and so you begin to go, okay, if it's a $5,000 car, my mom and dad are going to match whatever I come up with. So let's say they're going to match your $2,500, and you begin to say, all right, how much money do I need to make?

I've got five months. I need $500. So I've got to get after it. And this is interesting, Dave, what I love about financial literacy and something that you just said I want to add to. The reason we have movements right now among a lot of young people on social media that's called the anti-work movement is because they've never been taught real financial literacy. Because this young man, you take this question right here, and he begins to understand what we just said to him. He begins to tell his money what to do, the budget, as Dave just laid out. And here's what happens. Individual responsibility flourishes when you get taught

that you can have enough money. But this anti-work movement, all this junk that's out there is coming from young people who've never been taught how to manage their money and thus they don't have enough and then they begin to say i work too hard i don't have enough money i want the government to supply me the money and and i'm not trying to make this political because it's not it's actually sociological when you understand how to handle money as a young person with what we teach in financial literacy month and everything we're doing parents control your destiny they if you'll get off your little butt and then they become hard workers because they go i like what money allows me to do i can be generous i can be helpful that's right i can be calm i don't have to be pissed off all the time that's true i'm not broke right you know it's

just this is all goes together see i thought the anti-work movement was because college professors were students of carl marx and had passed that along to college students and reinforced the fact that they got a participation trophy instead of keeping score when they were playing soccer and they were sick well you just nailed the two other reasons right but the reasons those messages stick is because when you don't have any money and you're broke those messages make more sense yeah but to somebody have any money and you're broke, those messages make more sense. Yeah. But to somebody who's got money, you go, what are you talking about?

That's a pay cut. If you're five years old, you know it's more fun to score. There's that. You just do. Right. I mean, you don't have to be a psychologist to figure this one out. You smile more when you score than when you don't score. So go score.

That's what work is. It's score. Go score. It's what don't score so go score that's what work is it's score go score it's what it is just go score yeah go put the ball in the hoop man it's what you do right and and you're going to have more joy and more dignity and more choices when you do that now alex has not got that problem he's a guy asking a question on this show he's ready to be money he's a great young man and so i mean we got a lot of great young people out there that's right. He's ready to make money. He's a great young man. And so, I mean, we've got a lot of great young people out there. That's right. But we do have a group of Participation Trophy graduates who are intent on making mediocrity their goal.

And it's a problem. It is. And by the way, this is what leads to credit card debt at an all-time high, student loans all-time high. I've got to rely on somebody else to give me money so that i can get the life i want and that is counterintuitive and it leads to record numbers of 28 year olds living in their mother's basement seven million men not working because they don't like their job status and as the lady on cbs news that said the other day that's highly unattractive that's right hard to get a date yeah it Yeah, it's true. It's true.

You don't feel real eligible because you're not. Right. He's a dreamer, daddy. Yeah, that's right. He is. That's all he does. That's right. It means you're going to live in my basement.

You're dating a dreamer. God help me. Yeah. I'd love for you to say he's a doer. Please tell me he's a doer. Yes. He has big dreams and he's doing things to make those dreams come true. That I like.

I like that a lot. Yeah. See, this is highly attractive. It turns out mediocrity is really kind of smelly. Well, it's miserable. They can try to put another label on it, but a person who's leading a mediocre life, I'm beating the man by being a communist. Yeah, well, you'll notice that anybody who says these kind of things on social media is always angry. I tell you what you never see, an angry capitalist, an angry person with a lot of money and options. You see

anger where I feel limited, and they start by being limited financially because we don't teach financial literacy. Ramsey Solutions does. That's why we're in schools. But if we don't teach this, then what happens is they come through the system, Dave, and the system tells them, you need a credit card so that you have a backup plan. You need to get a student loan so you can get $200,000 in debt to get a degree in left-handed puppetry. So you can be successful. And you can be a barista. Right. Oh, by the way, the only people winning in that system are the people giving the loans and the credit cards,

interestingly enough. They're the ones that are winning big. Credit cards at an all-time high. I'm going to stick it to the man. I'm going to make sure he gets really rich. Right. And if they're upset against rich people, the people you ought to be upset against are the financial purveyors of all of the mediocrity and frustration in your life. See, that's the game. You want to be mad at somebody, it's the people who make really awesome commercials selling you a credit card. They're the best commercials on TV. Here's the thing.

If your job sucks, I mean, you're not in Russia. No. Just go get another one. That's right. If your boss sucks, get you another one. That's exactly right. Why is this hard? Yeah, well, the gig economy is exploding right now, Dave right now dave freelance work people can get out of debt faster we've

had nurses call in on this program i don't like what walmart pays that's right don't work they go work somewhere else uh we've we got an unbelievable job economy right now 3.6 unemployment uh my goal was never to work in mcdonald. It was never a goal of mine. Yeah. Unless it's the one I own in St. Thomas. But, you know, no thank you. And that's no one's goal. But, see, we live in a world now where you don't have to go work at McDonald's.

You can go start your own business online today. I never had to. That's the point. I know. I used to cut grass. And my buddies, this was 1,000 years ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth. My buddies were making $1.65 minimum wage. Wow.

This is how long ago it was. True story. I was 12 years old, and I cut grass for $3 for a yard, and I figured out I could cut the grass in one hour, so I was making double what my buddies were making as whopper floppers. So I've never been held to the standard of i am forced to do something yes and you aren't either you can choose to go do anything you want to do boys and girls this is still america that's right weirder america than ever before but it's still america this is the ramsey show

so i just gave away financial peace university that guy who's getting ready to get up on his feet and get going again you don't have to be broke to go through fpu uh you just want to learn how to handle money better god's and grandma's ways of handling money what does scripture say about money live on less than you make as an example okay and what does what a grandma say about money live on less than you make get out of debt stay out of debt and we're going to show you not only the principles but then how to actually go about doing those things in your life we get it if you're worried about money it's all consuming you wonder if you've got enough to pay your bills you can't afford to fill up at the gas station. Nobody can. It's always on your mind.

But you shouldn't have to live with that kind of stress, and you don't have to. When you follow a proven plan, you'll discover peace with your money. In Financial Peace University, you'll learn the same plan that's helped 10 million people get on a budget, save, spend wisely, pay off debt, become wealthy, and outrageously generous. Great time to take the course. We've updated a ton of the content, including George Campbell, Dr. John Deloney. Decide today that you're done. I've had it.

No more like I was talking about before the break. You can do this. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash FPU. Check out Financial Peace University at ramseysolutions.com slash FPU. Barbara's with us in Minneapolis. Hey, Barbara, welcome to the RamseySolutions.com slash FPU. Barbara's with us in Minneapolis. Hey, Barbara, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Papa Dave and Ken. It's great to talk with you guys.

Thank you for all that you're doing. You too. My husband and I have been married for 10 years. We have a blended family with children ranging from the ages of 32 down to 21. There is a 26-year-old son, my stepson, my husband's son, married, lives in Wisconsin, has five children under the age of seven. So they're busy. This son has asked us over two years ago, asked to borrow $3,000. My husband and I, we are baby steppers. We are on baby step six.

And hopefully we'll be seeing in about a year and a half for our final debt-free screen to move us to baby step seven. We've had a difficult time getting the son and daughter-in-law to pay us back. And it is causing significant strife in the family. My husband and I are to the point where we just know we're not going to see the money again, the remaining balance of $1,500. And we've accepted that and we've moved on. However, the son continues to just give daggers and say that, you know, he was entitled to the money, he deserved the money, and our other adult children see this and hear these comments. And where I would really love your experience, Ken, is the son does not work, he is not supporting his family, and then throws the emotional manipulation to my husband and I

that we will be the ones responsible when him and our grandchildren get kicked out on the street. So we're trying to determine how we just allow these arrows to bounce off of us while holding the empty bag of a financial loan, which caused a strife between my husband and I because I did not want to borrow the money. So we've had to solidify our marriage. You borrowed the money to give him? Say again? You borrowed the money to give him? We borrowed the borrowed the money to give him we borrowed the money

well that's a double deal oh my gosh not only did he not pay you back but you went into debt to do this oh ouch no we didn't no we did not go into debt no we're we're in baby step oh you loaned him the money you didn't borrow him the money and now that's what i thought you said okay we're the bad guys for asking for to be repaid back as promised yeah but we can't get him to work we can't get him to maintain you can't get him to do anything he's an adult no well exactly you don't get you don't get to tell him what to do no your bank his bank doesn't get to tell him what to do right so any guidance on how we just you know don't engage in this toxicity while you're trying

as a no absolutely i think i think his dad needs to call him his dad needs to call him up and say the loan is forgiven forget it just forget it we don't we're not going to loan you any money anymore ever again but this loan's. You don't owe me anymore. And I love you. I don't agree with a lot of things you're doing, but you're a grown man and you're allowed to do those things. And we're still going to be friends. I'm still going to be grandpa. And you don't owe us any more money.

Forget it. And if you want some help, we can give you some coaching and we'll be your biggest cheerleaders. But we won't give you either one, coaching or cheering, without your permission. Cut him loose. Set him free. This is bothering you way more than it's bothering him. Oh, yeah. You've had $28 million worth of grief.

He's had 20 cents worth of grief. He ain't got enough character for this to bother him. Well, exactly. Yeah. So this is Barbara. Barbara. Let it go. It's just $1, no absolutely and what what breaks my heart more than my pocketbook because we don't need that you can't make you can't it doesn't your heart

broken hearted and doesn't even matter to him well right but it hurts my heart how he speaks to my husband his father well then that's your husband needs to say, you can't speak to me that way anymore. Yeah. Okay. You can only speak to me in tones that are reasonable. I don't allow anyone, family or otherwise, to speak to me in, you know, unpleasant ways in an ongoing process. Now, if somebody can have a moment, that's one thing, okay? I don't cut everybody out of my life that has a moment.

That's not what I'm talking about. But as an ongoing abusive thing, that's, you know, you're welcome to call here and you're welcome to be in our home, but you're going to maintain these levels of volume and this level of reasonable respect, and I'm going to give you the same thing. But, you know, don't call here and we're not responsible for your children. They're your children. Correct. We love you and we're cheering for you. If you ever want any advice on how to get where we are financially, we can show you.

But we're not going to tell you what to do and you're not going to make us give you our money. You're a confused young man and he just needs some boundaries your husband is a nice gentle man isn't he yes he's a six foot four giant yep with a big old heart and a very very soft gentle personality so i want your husband to roar just a little bit and you do too and you do too now i don't want to be mean i don't want to be mean but it takes strength to set boundaries and that's what's lacking here is boundaries and let me tell you anytime you're someone like your your your stepson who doesn't respect boundaries anytime you put up a fence and he's used to playing in your yard he's going to have a fit so don't expect this to go well right it's not going to go well because this kid's a twerp

okay and so all you can do is just say you have to sit over there in your yard and have your little fit you can't sit in my yard and have a fit. And just don't worry about the money. Money's off the table. Money's off the table. And the fact that you forgive it is not going to make this young man suddenly have character. Yeah, and I think that's also one of the hardest things for my husband, too. Exactly.

That ship has amazing work ethic. It's sailed. That ship's sailed. This kid's way too old for you to fix him. You just got to love him where he is, and if he wants some help, I can show him how. You can show him how. But until he's ready for some help, it's everybody else's fault. Mm-hmm.

And, Barbara, I would just add, you need to encourage your husband that this is not a direct reflection on him it's very heartbreaking when you see a kid and a grown man make these kind of decisions and say the things that he's saying but i'll tell you this i want parents to hear this is it's really hard when you see adult kids do things that you didn't model for them you didn't teach them how to do it. But when you see an adult kid like this who's not working to support his family. There's other stuff going on. There's way more going on. He's not lazy.

Even though he presents as lazy, he's lost. And you said it earlier. You said this is a confused young man. And I think you're right. Confusion can make a person so lost that they lose all gumption to get out there and do something. And that's the best your husband can be aware of is to try to love his son that way. But I agree, Dave. You've got to cut it off for a while until he gets a wake-up call.

Parents, do not loan money. Do not loan money to your kids. If you want to give them money, give them money. Never loan them money because you change the relationship. And that's part of because you changed the relationship. And that's part of what soured this relationship. Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of Dr. John Deloney's book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future.

It will help you guys navigate this part of life. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality. Open phones at 888-825-5225. John is with us. John is in Atlanta. Hi, John. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you so much for taking the call.

I kind of got a unique tithing question for you. Okay. So I've listened to your show a lot, and obviously you teach on tithing, which I've done, which anybody out there, if you're not tithing, you're making a huge mistake. But anyway, I'm giving 10% to my local church, but I have, living in Atlanta, I have quite the commute to work and back. So I try to educate myself every morning and listen to different sermons throughout the morning and the evening. And I'm finding myself listening to Craig Groeschel, Michael Todd, and I'm getting a lot of information from them and really growing from those two pastors, among other ones, but those are the two major ones that I listen to. And so now I'm kind of feeling like not only should I be giving a portion of that 10% to my local church, but I'm growing just as much, if not more, listening to those pastors. Should I be supporting those churches also and giving

a portion of that 10% to those churches or those pastors? I really love your heart. I appreciate that. And todd and craig groschel are both personal friends craig's a good friend of mine and um i'm just emailing with him about an hour and a half ago matter of fact but um uh so i do kind of know what those guys would tell you um and i think it's the same thing i would tell you and uh i've can chime in here because he's a pk as well okay what is the purpose of the tithe is it for you to buy a ticket to a self-improvement christian seminar no okay it's not the purpose of the tithe is to support the work of your local congregation it's represented in the old testament storehouse and the storehouse fed the widows and the orphans and paid the priests and that was the function of the storehouse

and so you gave a tenth of your grain to the storehouse the levites ran it in the Old Testament and a little bit of biblical history. But the point of it is not to pay them for services rendered to you. The point of the tithe is to get a rhythm of giving in your life and to remind you each week that you don't really own anything. You're just managing it all for God. And there's a lot of grace around the tithe. So you can do whatever you want to do. God's not going to be mad at you for sending Mike Todd and Craig Groeschel or whoever else you watch. Both of those are wonderful teachers, by the way, world class.

But the local church function is supported by you also, by your giving, but that's not even the reason for your giving. The reason for your giving is so you learn to be generous, not so you purchase a ticket to a self-improvement event. And I'm kind of being a little bit smart, because you're like, well, this is all where I'm growing from, but this isn't about your growth. Okay, I got you. Yeah, well, I was just feeling like, you know, part of the tithe, in my opinion, obviously, especially for the local church, is you're supporting that local church so they can go out and do other things and win souls to Christ.

These two gentlemen are doing a phenomenal job, so I felt like if I'm listening and informing them... And neither one of them are hurting for money. I understand, yeah. Neither church is in financial trouble. Both churches are in excellent financial condition and are winning plenty of souls to Christ. Okay.

John, I would just add, I think most pastors would agree with Dave, but they would also say this is a preference, not a principle. So the preference is to support the local body, the local church. However, the principle, as Dave says, is to give back what you've been given a portion of to the Lord. So let me say this, though. I think you've got to shift your mindset from I should support those two ministries to I could support. Yeah, that's good. And I think that's the deal. I think you really love them.

I think you are. But that becomes an offering above the tithe. That is above and beyond tithes and offerings. There's another ministry over here that does good work for God. That's a good work for orphans, a good work for whoever, a good work for the unborn, a good work for... And I want to support that ministry. That's an offering over and above the tithe. The tithe does a different set of principles. But now, having given you all this nicky-nacky detail stuff, I also want to back way up and just say there's a tremendous amount

of grace over this whole thing. The whole principle is God wants to make us over in his image. He's a giver. He gave his only son. He's the ultimate in generosity. And so he's trying to make us in his image. And the principle is to build the giving muscle, the generosity muscle. And always be building your generosity muscle. You hear me say that all the time anyway,

but this is a uniquely Christian discussion we're having here, for those of you that are not people of faith. But that's the technical answer from an evangelical Christian perspective, and what has been taught for hundreds of years is that the tithe is modeled after the Old Testament storehousehouse and that's why it goes to the local church that's where the model came from uh and uh you know there but you know i'll bring all your tithes to the storehouse and you know that's an old testament you know direct quote so uh but you know and you know then we can have all kinds of other discussions.

But I don't think you're going to hell if you don't tithe. But I do, I can tell you this. There's a high correlation between people that are generous and people who win at life and money. It's very unusual to find someone getting a divorce who's been tithing for the entire time they've been married. Because generous tends to make you less selfish. And it's very unusual. If you've got the two of you as a couple have made a decision to have a steady rhythm of giving and you're in agreement on where that steady rhythm of giving is going,

called the tithe in this case, it's also very unusual that you're not in agreement on most of the things and it just it's a it's an indication of the health of the relationship in your marriage and so i had an old pastor tell me one time he goes i've been pastoring for 45 years never had a couple much or it's good divorce that were tithers and uh he was saying that as if the tithe somehow is magical but i think the tithe in and of itself is not it's the it's the the principle as you said behind the process and the principle is generosity and a steady rhythm of generosity it's a wonderful question thank you john yeah very thoughtful letting us get back on something

that actually matters that's really good that's a great great question yeah so we'll back up one more step and because i'll just take a second more on this and ken uh because i i loved what you said there i want to recap that uh because you do want to pan back from these things i in my early uh i became a christian as an adult in my early days i became very pharisaical very detailed about stuff like where the tithe goes what counts on the tithe how do you calculate it and all that. And I finally went, oh, wait a minute, God doesn't really need my money. As if I was somehow singularly supporting the kingdom.

That's hilarious. You know, the arrogance of that is unbelievable. But Pharisees are arrogant, and I was a young Pharisee. So, you know, but what I got to later was is the tithe is not for God. He doesn't need my money. If he wanted me to take it, and I'd be a greasy spot. It's all his. God, he don't need my money.

And so, and really that church, Craig and Todd, Mike Todd, they're doing fine. They don't need your money. But if you want to support the work that they're doing because it's incredible work, and they're not your local church, then that would be called an offering. Yes. And I think that there's something beautiful there, too, as you're talking about generosity, that if you feel that you're receiving a blessing and you want to return some of that blessing, that is also generosity as well to say, you know what?

I'm blessed by this. I've felt some impact. You know what? I want to give the widow's might, you know, if you look at that parable. Well, it's like leaving a tip. That's exactly right. In a sense.. Well, it's like leaving a tip. That's exactly right. In a sense. I mean, it's an act of appreciation.

You blessed me tonight in the way you took care of our table, and I'm going to be a blessing back to you. And, yeah, that's just, it's called class. That's right. You know? Oh, my gosh. Selfish, dadgum people out there. I love John's question because he's anything but selfish.

He's just, he's living in an abundant mindset. And one other final thing on this, John. God's not up there with a clipboard looking at where you're giving and how much. It's the attitude. It's the heart condition. And so you're in good shape there. Don't worry about that. Just give. You're a wonderful young man. Very cool. Good stuff. Good stuff. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, my co-host this hour. Thanks to Austin, Ben, Zach, Andrew, and Kelly in the booth. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, and we'll be back.