The Ramsey Show - App - Budgeting Through Stressful Situations (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: Trying to budget while battling cancer, When buying gifts is a violation of trust, Knowing when to accept gifts from parents (and when to quit the family business). Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, and number one best-selling author of the book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, is my co-host today. We'll take your questions at 888-825-5225. Stephanie is with us in Springfield, Missouri hi stephanie how are you hi dave i'm good thanks for talking to me sure what's up um my husband and i have been married almost a year

and for five months of that we've been uh dealing with a issue. I was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. I'm so sorry. Well, thank you. So we never got in a good rhythm together in our new wedge as far as finances were concerned. I had to stop working full-time. I'm working part-time. And we've been doing fine, but I'd like to get refocused once my chemo is up in September. We're going to have a budget meeting and celebrate and discuss.

So my question is, how do we start that and get back on track and re-approach finances after we got kind of derailed right in the beginning? How old are you? 31. So it sounds like the prognosis when the chemo is finished in September is excellent, the way you're laying this out. Yes. We're very hopeful it'll be cured and my pet scan will be cancer-free. Okay.

Then we start the cancer-free journey then. Well, why not just whip cancer in the first year of marriage? Let's just go ahead and get that one out of the way. Oh, my goodness, kiddo. Wow. I'm so sorry. What a strain and what a weird thing to have to go through in year one of marriage. I mean, wow.

That's amazing. Okay. Well, to start with, let's just say this. Doing a budget and getting on a plan to build wealth is an important part of the rhythm of your life. It is not even on the same scale as beating cancer. Okay? So, I mean, like, budget two, cancer 12 on a scale of one to ten, right? So, you know, amazing. You're an amazing young hero.

Congratulations. Wow. So I want you to finish using all the energy that you have at this moment to live in the present and knock this out. I know you need to look past the chemo just to get through it. I don't blame you for that uh but the but but let's just number one let's just say it is very very important that it's more important that you complete this and that you beat the cancer by far than it is that you do a budget in september okay okay all right so okay now, no, but not a big deal now. I mean, it's like you've done two tours in Vietnam.

Walking down the street past an alley is not a problem, you know, that kind of thing, right? So that's where we are. So, yeah, then you just sit down, and you're going to do what you're looking for, a normal life finally, to have a normal struggle, to pay off some debt, and to live on the same page together and that kind of thing and so whatever lingering medical bills you have whatever debts you have you're going to begin to address those and the two of you are going to sit down start working the baby steps using a budget to do that and working together but you've learned to work together you didn't have a choice. That's true. There's some great psychological literature out there that suggests that when people have the opportunity

to peer over the edge, whatever that looks like, that it changes their approach through life, both of you in your marriage, right? And so I would love, before you sit down and start doing the math problems, I think it would be phenomenal to start a weekly dreaming session with your husband answering one question.

Now that we've peered over the edge, who do we want to be? Because most of us walk through life in the illusion that we're going to make it to 72 to 85 years old. That's about the average is right and we'll be all right. And the reality is none of us know. And you got to lean over the edge.

You got to sit in that room and have that scary C word conversation. You've been there. You've had chemo plugged in. You know, and now you can say, who do we want to be with the 10 minutes or the 100 years we have left? Right. And then, man, budget becomes how do we fulfill this cool thing? Because if we owe some money, we get that knocked out.

So that right. If we want to go travel more, I want you to quit your dumb job because it's killing you faster than my chemo is hurting me. Like, let's do that now. So you can make some of those decisions based on who do we want to be together what's the world we want to create for ourselves and how can we love and support those in our community see how radical of a different approach that is yeah you have the gift of perspective it's one of the things that this is going to give you is that gift all this pain and all this and i don't want that gift right i don't want that i would you could keep your gift but you've got it now right so the question is what are you going

to do with it right i yeah you're a powerful brave woman man i'm i'm glad it's an honor to talk to you yeah um pretty cool yeah very cool and if we can help you in any way let us know but basically you're going to sit down to a zero-based budget that aims the money that you make towards your goals. But John's point is I think your goals are going to be a lot more noble, a lot more, you know, your goals aren't going to be, I want a new car. You know, it could be. It could be. If that's okay if it is. But it's the shallowness that most people live in, I don't think you're going to struggle with for a while.

It may come back on you at some point, but right now you've got the gift of perspective. And it was forced upon you. You didn't sign up for it. And those bills, just because they've got cancer on them or doctors on them, they are debts, right? And they go in line just with every other debt, and we're going to knock them out one at a time.

Yeah. Best of luck. So I've been asked, John, over the years on the show many times. The first time it happened, a guy called me from Atlanta, pulled over to the side of the road, sat on the side of the road and talked to me. He was on his way home to tell his wife that he had been diagnosed with stage 4. Yikes. And he said, i got 90 days

that's what the doctor said he's going home to tell his wife for and he called me on the radio from the side of the road i'm like this dude i would have there's a lot of other people but you know but his whole point was he could deal with it better if he had his ducks in a row on how to make sure she was taken care of i got to get a will done i got to you know pull the life insurance policies out make sure i see what they what they are i mean care of. I've got to get a will done. I've got to pull the life insurance policies out and make sure I see what they are. I've got to lay out a game plan here for her because I've not got a lot of time to make sure she's going to be okay. And that will give me peace if I have done that.

And so when I understood that, I said, okay, I get it. It's still kind of weird that I get a phone call from the side of the road like that. But it's honoring and humbling uh but but from that day and all the different calls similar to that i've gotten over the years obviously stephanie's not in that situation she's got a recovery going uh but anytime you get something like that you know you what you want to do with the baby steps and everything else is just push full stop. Pause. Pause. We're just going to pile up cash and live in the moment, you know, for these short couple of moments we got.

And our pile up cash and use it to clear this. Now, once it's cleared in September, now she's going to go back to doing a regular budget and a regular rhythm on that, which is a good thing to do. Desperately crave normal after something like this. But it's okay to stop and pile up cash. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a nonprofit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses. And they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor by visiting chministries.org.

CHM is a proud sponsor of, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. So, John, a lot of stuff going on with questions for humans. Who would have thought, man? Who would have thought? I didn't. John came to me with this idea, and he said, we're going to make cards, like a deck of cards, that helps people start conversations,

and so they can get off their cell phones and actually talk to each other. And I said, that'll never work. And good God, hundreds of thousands of these things later was I wrong. We're doing all right with them. All right? We can't keep them. I can't order them fast enough. Yeah, it's pretty cool, man. The most popular thing.

Yeah. So, yeah. Now we've got all kinds of versions. Yes. Questions for humans. So they're conversation starters. A little deck of cards. And it've got all kinds of versions. Yes. Questions for humans. So they're conversation starters, a little deck of cards, and it's got a question on it, something like,

what's your favorite movie? But they're twisted. They're not just like, what's your favorite movie? It's what movie made you laugh so hard you peed your pants, and when did you see it? Like, what was the story around that? So we're trying to create communication, right? But, yeah, and after we put out the first few decks, then people said, well, hey,

could you make one for my workplace? Could you make one for my girls' night out? And I was like, I haven't been on a lot of girls' nights, but we're happy to give it a shot. We have some girls that work here that have been on that. They can help us, yeah. Brilliant women in a room and figure it out. So anyway, we're working on them and putting them out,

and it's been a blast, man. So now we've added Girls Night Out, Guys Night Out, Dating, Conversation Starters, Parents and Teens. Yeah, there's people that talk well. That one I can get, okay? Workplace Edition, all of these are there. So we've created these questions for human cards. Conversation Starters help you disconnect from your screens and connect to actual humans. So we've created these questions for human cards, conversation starters, help you disconnect from your screens and connect to actual humans.

And these are fun. I mean, I'm joking around about it. I'm actually telling the truth. I didn't think it would work, but we've had a lot of fun with them around the office here in different settings. We started one of the leadership meetings the other day and discovered that i've had more traffic tickets than everyone else in the room put together so uh hey the other day we're not a shock we've got a few new decks coming that um i was editing and uh i did them

with my wife on the way to our trip this past week four hours in we're laughing telling stories stuff i'd we've been been celebrating our 20th anniversary. I did not know some of these stories about her and vice versa. So they were a lot. They're good, man. They're just good. They're fun. So pick them up.

Questions for Humans, Conversation Starter Cards. All these different versions are there now at RamseySolutions.com. And they're flying off the shelves. They're a big deal, and you're going to love them. They're fabulous. I mean, I'll just love it when I'm wrong. So there you go. And you get tickets?

You get tickets? What are the tickets? No, do you get a lot of driving tickets, meeting tickets? Oh, of course. Yeah. You didn't know that. I didn't know that. That's easy to predict.

Yeah, exactly. Fairly. Blinds.com is our question of the day. I didn't know that. That's easy to predict. Yeah, exactly. Blinds.com is our question of the day. 100% satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, the new promos they run every month, and you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best deal.

Today's question comes from Mike in Texas. Mike writes, my wife and I are in baby step two and have been able to pay about $4,000 of our debt in the past three months. However, we've hit some bumps along the way. My wife is the sweetest person I know. Uh-oh. Anytime somebody starts a sentence that way. I have the best wife, but...

But... My husband is so great, but... But... My wife is the sweetest person I know, and she loves buying gifts for people. Most recently, she bought me a set of power tools for $300. Oh, that's so nice. I do enjoy woodworking. I do not need or want these tools.

I see that as a $300 chunk that could have been put towards credit card debt. Because you're right. Is there a way to politely decline this gift from my wife and return it or should i just be grateful for it and move forward oh jesus whoa you touch this one dave um everybody in this conversation is being so nice that there's no communication going on correct you guys are the softest you pussyfoot around everything none of you make anything clear in this house ever exactly we're just in the it's like it's like a saturday night live skit on nice you know isn't that what

you're seeing yes well she's nice but now i want to be polite i see i want to be nice and this isn't these people are not hillbillies i'm just saying she buys gifts for other people to that that's the way she buys self-esteem for herself is she pictures herself as a giving person so much so that she will take care of everybody else except for her own household in order to put on airs that she is this kind of person. He, on the other hand, is a wimp and a coward. And yes, this is a hard conversation. There's no make no bones about it. But if you and your wife have sat down and said, here is a goal that we want to get out of debt,

and you're cranking on it three months, $4,000, paying off $1,200 a month on this debt, there's nowhere that anyone in a situation where the two of you are in sync on baby step two, there's not a script where she goes and buys $300 worth of tools. Absolutely not. I don't know where that comes from. She's either trying to figure out if this, either it's your birthday and you left that out. She's trying to figure out if this boundary is going to hold.

She wants to know if I do this for you, then it's going to free her to go back to her away her old ways this in my house and if let's flip it around if me and my wife did this and i went bought my wife something for 300 bucks and i'm i'm doing that because something like this has happened over the course of my marriage she got upset and she should have been upset not because i bought her gift because i violated the covenant that we made that here's a plan that we're going to follow together. And then I put her as the recipient of this, making it her problem, not ours anymore. And it's just not cool, right? It's manipulative.

It's manipulative. That's exactly right. So the thing is this. When she walked in with a gift, you should have said no. Absolutely not. We're in agreement. And that would have been a part of a fight that she had started. You weren't causing the fight at that moment.

We were in agreement that we are getting out of debt. You buying me $300 worth of stuff is not part of that agreement. Absolutely not. Period. Yes. That's not only not nice, it's in violation of you broke your word to me. That's right. That's exactly right.

But this guy never says anything like that. He says, oh, thanks. I'm going to love these things. And inside he's sick. Do I sneak them back over to Home Depot and get the credit? Right. And maybe I'll tell her later. Yeah.

No, dude. This is like when she set the box down on the counter, you're like, what? What do we do? Yeah. What? So tonight, sit down and say hey we have to have a hard conversation um i'm grateful that you bought me these things but you and i agreed that we were going to do this and i'm not grateful that you bought me these things and that's

right because you violated the trust that we had put in each other yeah and so it's more important to me that we work together and that we keep word to each other that to get out get rid of this debt than it is whether i have some power tools. Yes. Or whether you're generous to me or whether I'm polite to you. And so let's put a list of things that we want to buy and do for each other and together in the future, and we're going to keep a running list over the next three years

while we get out of debt. Let's keep it there or something. But it's just a violation, man. And, yeah, there's two people who are struggling with their own, what they see in the mirror man they're trying to make it work you know what i did this too i i hadn't even thought about it you said you've done this but i mean i've been married 40 years so i've had lots of opportunities to do crap wrong so i've done this a bunch dave because sharon is a tightwad she does not like

to spend money yeah but her nature isn't and until she's ready and it's something but i mean most of the time most of the time her nature is she's a saver and i'm a spender and i'm also a um one of my love languages is just giving generosity and so uh when we were too broke to do it i would on her birthday or on an anniversary buy her a dozen red roses which is expensive i mean i don't even know what that costs now. I still do it, but it costs a lot. Now it's crazy. But even then, it was like, you know, whatever. I spent $100, let's say.

Well, $100. It's a million dollars and you're broke, right? $100. Yeah. And, you know, where are those flowers in a month? Exactly. They're in the trash, you know. And to her, the sentiment did not keep up with the stupidity.

That's right. And so she was more concerned about the stupidity than she was the sentiment. And it took her a decade later from that to actually accept flowers when we can afford them and enjoy them. But now she actually can enjoy them. So she got 40 roses on her 40th, right? Which was a lot, too. But now I can afford to throw them away in a month. And so now it's not stupid anymore.

But back then, I violated the same thing this woman did. This is The Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, is my co-host today. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Thomas and Emily are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, Dave. Hi, Dave. Good to have you guys. Great to be here.

So where do you live? We're from Clifton Park, New York. Okay, which is near? Alb Dave. Hi, Dave. Good to have you guys. Great to be here. So where do you live? We're from Clifton Park, New York. Okay, which is near? Albany. Okay, cool. Cool. Good to have you guys. How much debt have you paid off?

$41,000 in six months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $70,000 to $125,000. Good for you. What do you guys do for a living? I'm an accountant. I am an indoor cycling instructor.

I work on a farm and I run my own marketing company. Whoa. Okay. So how did you double your income in six months? I got a big promotion at work and some bonuses along the way. And then her business kind of took off. A couple websites that she got and all just kind of fell into place. Good deal. That's nice. I love it when a plan comes together. So what kind of debt was the $41,000? So at that point, I think I had $6,000 left on my car, and then the rest of it was student loans. How long have you all been married?

Six months. Okay. So you got married, had the plan to come home from the honeymoon and attack this. How in the world did you make a weird decision like that and get connected to this ramsey stuff so i bought in a long time ago um i was sitting at work and i was actually oddly enough trying to figure out my budget to finance a bmw and get all this different stuff that i wanted to sign up for the engagement ring and uh i just was looking at the numbers i'm like this doesn't work um so then i'm scrolling through financial podcasts as us nerds do and uh came across yours and i was like wow i've been wrong the entire time and then i kind of binged listened to your podcast and then read the book went through financial peace university and here we are okay and then you get engaged and so emily you're like this guy uh

he's kind of over the top on this stuff yeah he uh he bought into it a long time before i did he would put it on whenever we were driving in the car and i was like you got to turn this off how smooth man so he's so subtle to be fair i ran through a window to be fair i had i'm one and a half speed so it wasn't that bad. It could have been even worse. Sounds like Mickey Mouse. And he tried to guess what your answers to people's questions would be before you said it, so I was like, you're just... That's a good way to

flex for her how smart you are. I probably know what's coming. So what pushed you over the edge, Emily? Well, he proposed, and I was like, well, I'd rather get married to this man than keep my credit card. So I went all in, and I cut it up, and I was like, we're going to be on the same page. We're just going to do it. It's a plan.

I'll stick to it. And here we are. You don't hear that very often. That's just like an act of character. Yeah. That was pretty cool. We need to have her on your show on how to properly do this like you just solved most of america's issues right there i'd rather stay in relationships

so i just quit being stupid and then i moved on my life like that right there man heels ah that's incredible man you married well my brother good job that was a that was a mic drop right there that was beautiful because i mean the number of people that say i want to do this but i also want to do that i love him but i want my couch or i really love her but i need my bmw whatever like i love her more so i'm just gonna just like that done yeah it's so incredible man okay so you you go through this plan y'all get after it that's a lot of money you're getting these bonuses you're getting new websites and it's's like, I got a new website. It's like, cool. Now we can pay off more student loans. That doesn't feel right. Right. So walk us through that journey.

I think just because we had that mindset going into it, because we had started separately, like I started 40 months ago and I was going through my own journey separate. And then she came in. So when we actually had that influx of income, and actually we were saving up cash for the wedding, and both our parents helped us out tremendously with the wedding. So we were able to take all that money that we stockpiled to pay, and we put it on all the debt. So it really kind of steamrolled it all.

Who are you two? It's amazing. That was free money, dude, to go buy a new car with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all are incredible. Y'all are weird. I love it. Very well done.

How's it feel to be free? Awesome. It's weird because every time we, you know, every time I got paid from a client or I got a paycheck, I was so used to watching

that money go out of the account right away and now it's just, it's kind of surreal watching it. It comes in, it stays, or I can spend it

on something that, you know, we budgeted for and that I want to spend it on. So it's weird, but it's just, it's kind of surreal watching it. It comes in, it stays, or I can spend it on something that, you know, we budgeted for and that I want to spend it on. So it's weird, but it's good. You have control of your life now. Yeah. That's beautiful. Well done. All right.

You're brand new married. You're unbelievably successful. Very well done. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? The budget, staying consistent. I mean, every month your income's going to change like with her business. If a website comes in, sometimes they don't. So just when you get the extra money, put it on to whatever your goal is using the snowball.

And other than that, I mean, it's just staying consistent. And it helps to have a team. And, you know, we both kind of had started beforehand and kind of plugged along, but once we were together and working at it and consistently doing the budget, it just exploded. How old are you guys? We're 26. She's much older than me, though. I'm a week older than her. 26 and you're debt-free?

Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Y'all won! More than anything, they know how to think together they know how to dream together they know how to sacrifice how to execute together they know how to get on the same page you know all of these tools that you learn in this process are going to be used throughout your life on other things too so it's put your relationship in a completely

different place dude i do relationships for a living and it's very rare to hear somebody say, I loved him more than my stuff. Hang on to that one. She's good. Well, and it wasn't, you know, and Emily, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you didn't do that. We have the benefit of seeing your body language and everything. You were not saying, you know, I gave up my brain,

I gave up my right. You're just saying, I agreed with this i so i chose yeah and i chose priorities yeah both it was it was a it was a mindful intellectual decision an act of my will it was not a i have to go alone because i'm dumb it wasn't that at all i mean there's a bright eyed very very uh sharp young lady saying it's very cool very cool y'all very well done not good at dating playing podcast it's just like a move but hey it worked it worked right yeah it worked well done man yeah yeah doing the right thing the wrong way but yeah exactly instead of smooth jazz we're gonna listen to dave ramsay hey we got a jazz opener. We do have a jazz opener.

Well done, man. Congratulations. We're proud of y'all. Well done. Who was your biggest cheerleaders? Both of our parents were pretty big cheerleaders. I mean, during this time, her parents paid off their mortgage. I actually got my mom to buy in a little bit here because she saw what we were doing,

and she's like, hey, that's pretty cool. How did you do that? And I went through her first budget with her and kind of showed her everything. She'll be on this stage. I love it. You're changing legacies the other way, right? That's incredible. Yeah.

Changed my family tree both directions. There we go. Good job, you guys. Well, we got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That's the next chapter in your story for sure. No question about it. You are on the way. Our latest number one bestseller for you.

And a copy of Total Money Makeover coming up on its 20-year anniversary and almost 9 million copies sold. So I'll give you a copy of that. You can give it away to somebody and get somebody started. Sounds like you're already evangelizing this stuff a little bit anyway. And Financial Peace University, one-year membership. If you haven't been through it, go through it. Dr. John Deloney is in the new videos with me and George and Rachel. And they're the best teaching we've ever done. It's really, really strong right now. So Financial Peace University, all that stuff.

You said you'd been through it, so maybe you give that to somebody as well. So whatever you want to do. It's all yours. You can do what you want to with it. Thomas and Emily from New York in the Albany area, $41,000 paid off in the first six months of their marriage, making $70,000 to $125,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Ready? Ready. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Wow! Yeah.

I can't get it out of my head. The opposite is a lady that called me one time, and she said her fiancé wanted a prenup to protect his classic car. And I said, don't marry him. Absolutely not. This guy loves his car more than he loves you. Yep. This guy's not a keeper. Yep.

So if you're my daughter, I would prevent you from marrying him if it meant his death. Stop it. Don't do it. No. This is quite the opposite. The opposite. The opposite. Beautifully done.

I'm not going to find my security in pieces of plastic. I'm going to find my security in us. And in relationship. In relationship. Let's do this. And in agreement. Yeah. That is where we both have a vote.

That's incredible. Wow. Powerful. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Bill's in San Antonio. Hi, Bill. How are you? Hey, Dave.

How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Man, I'm so excited to talk to you. So I'm 31. been married two years. My wife and I have about $45,000 in student loan debt. Right now, that's all we've got. I work for my family in agriculture, farming, and ranching.

And I make about $30,000 a year. My wife makes about 40. So recently we've been hammering down on the debt, getting it paid off. We got 25,000 down, got 45 to go. This house has come up. It's owned by my parents. They want to sell it to us. We want to buy it. We need it. But the, you know, we're trying to pay the debt off. So I went to my folks, I asked for a raise. I've been with them five years now, never had a pay raise in that time. And they said, well, why don't you just let us pay off your, your student loan debt? And I said, man, I really, I mean, that's a wonderful gesture and I appreciate it. But, uh, you know, we've been working really hard to pay this off and i feel like if i take this money they're gonna maybe there's gonna be some strings attached and

of course that's just based on our relationship and that's a different conversation no it's not it's the same one it's the exact same one bill right okay there are no strings yes you take the gift where there are strings then we have to discuss the strings how old are you man 31 31 how do they justify i'm not gonna play it put it on them i'll put on you you're 31 years old making 30 000 a year what are you doing i work for the family business no we understand i know that what do you do physically? Why are you doing this? You work too hard. You're too smart. You're making two or three times that.

Or four. Yes, I should. I also have a business degree from Ole Miss. So the reason why I do what I do is because I love it. I'm not working for my parents because I've got no other way. We raise cattle. We raise sheep. This is my passion. I love it. I'm not working for my parents because I've got no other way. We raise cattle. We raise sheep. This is my passion.

I love my job, and I hope to someday have my own place, and this, to me, is the best way to get there. My own place to run my own business is what I mean. How is $30,000 a year getting you there? Well, it's slow. It's not. It's not, man. So what do they make?

Oh, gosh, I don't know. You have a business degree. Yes, you do. Yeah, you know. I would say over a million a year so i'm gonna say this um and it's not gonna be pretty but i'm getting frustrated your parents taking advantage of you this is strange it's not cool it's disrespectful yeah y'all sound like my wife it's disrespectful and what's happening is it's pitting a relationship. If they can just cut you a $45,000 check to wipe your – it's a power play, man.

It's a move. And you smelled the move. Dude, I don't know, man. I get wanting to – I'm from Texas. I get wanting to have a ranch and run the cattle. Those are some of my closest friends in the world. But you can't do that at $30,000. You're never going to earn the money to buy your own ranch.

Or you're playing a 30-year-long game with a couple of power brokers that they may give you their ranch someday. It's not worth it, man. It's not worth it. Go get a job at McDonald's and make $30,000. At least you can deliver pizzas at night and make another $15,000 on top. You're killing yourself for $30,000. Your day-to-day work, you enjoy doing the day-to-day work.

Yes, sir. But I honestly believe you could manage a ranch for somebody with their business degree and with your knowledge of the actual events that have to occur on the ranch to win. I mean, you know how to handle the cattle. You know how to purchase the cattle, sell the cattle, deal with the issue. You know how to do that. So you could work for someone else as a manager and make $100,000 a year, couldn't you?

Maybe not $100,000, but I think I could double my income. But I'd have to move somewhere. Yeah, you would. So my point is if your parents hired someone to do what you're doing, they would have to pay them more than they pay you. Oh, absolutely. And that's where I say you're getting taken advantage of. So the rule in business, the rule in family business is this.

My kids work for me. Okay. Is they get paid what other people doing the job that they are doing get paid. Not more because they're family and not less because they're family. And so Rachel Cruz is a Ramsey personality, and Rachel gets paid the same percentages on a book royalty that Dr. John Deloney gets paid as a Ramsey personality. Now, she might sell more books or less books, and so she might make more or less than he makes, but not percentage.

She's on the exact same comp schedule as Ken Coleman, as George Camel, as Dr. John Deloney. And so that's Rachel. And so Rachel's not being mistreated by me working here, making less because she's family and she's also not getting paid more because she's here working as family and she does stand to inherit this place okay yes sir so she so she doesn't have to accept thirty thousand dollars a year instead she makes what you know what these other guys make doing this thing here that we're doing. So the same is true of my son, Daniel, who's one of our senior vice presidents and runs Entrez Leadership. And so what does he make?

The same thing as the other senior vice presidents that are running business units as a percentage of their revenues and how they all get paid. And so you should be paid what someone else that didn't belong to your family would be paid, but not necessarily more. And so, no, I do not want the $45,000, and, yes, I have to rethink whether I can stay here at all. Right. Well, that's pretty much what I was thinking, Dave. Thank you.

Yeah, I'm sorry. And here's the thing if mom and dad were making no profit and you were joining in on the family business trying to get the thing turned around and putting your shoulder to the wheel totally different that's a different game but they're probably making a million dollars a year well i mean i know what they make is i know what their livestock is worth hello and uh and so you know and you're know, and you're not coming in here and asking for more than market rate, but I'm no longer willing to accept less than market rate. And if the promise of this inheritance is not enough to keep me.

Absolutely not. Because it's a bad arrangement in the short term. And that arrangement comes with strings. Yeah. Of all kinds. So it probably would be good for your mom and dad's relationship with you, good for your relationship with you, good for your wife's relationship with you, for you to work on another ranch for a while.

Yeah. You don't have to cut strings. You don't have to cut strings. You don't have to burn bridges. You have to cut strings, but you don't have to burn bridges. And just get your marketplace savvy established, your value in the marketplace established, and then we can discuss maybe in two or three years how to come back and under what circumstances you can come back and it's going to be market rate then with a plan towards succession in the business

that's laid out guys yeah y'all recommend that i have this conversation again with them um now that i've listened to you and i'm probably a little bit more confident um i mean obviously you guys don't know them from adam but yeah i mean is it words another word yeah it doesn't hurt yeah it doesn't hurt anything i think you tell them i'm going to start i'm going to reach out to seek this this amount of money this is what my time and my experience and my knowledge and my value is and i want to put y'all on notice i'm going to be looking for this type of work across the southeast region, right? Southwestern region.

Southwestern, yeah, wherever you happen to be. Yeah, but if you want to stay there and they suddenly want to clean this thing up, then that'd be okay. But I'll be honest with you. I think if they were going to do that they would have already done it and my experience has been kids who grow up in this type of relationship undervalue themselves because they've been undervalued

and your wife you mentioned it she sees it she knows what her husband's worth and she's not just mad at your mama I want you to see what you're worth my brother that's a long answer too no don't take the money so fun sigh sigh worth, my brother. That's a long answer to no, don't take the money. So fun.

Wow. Interesting. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.