The Ramsey Show - App - Build Wealth Like a Crockpot, Not a Microwave! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show and author of the number one bestselling book, From Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host. As we talk about your job, your life, your money, where your money comes from, your work, Ken is an expert in that area, and he can help. So jump in. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Jim is with us in Vancouver.

Hi, Jim. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me on. Sure. What's up? I'm calling from just outside Vancouver in British Columbia here. And basically, I was wondering if it was smarter for me to buy a house or start a business first?

And if you would think buying a house would be smarter, how would I go about that with today's housing market? Buying a house in terms of to live in as your home or as a rental property? It would be to live in as my own, ideally with a suite to rent out, but that might be further down the line. Okay. Are you single? I'm single, yeah. What do you make? I'm 20 and I still do live with my parents, but I currently make 35 bucks an hour. What's the business you want to start? It would be in the equipment services and welding industry.

Okay. Obviously, you know how to do equipment services and welding. Where are you going to get your customers? So I got quite a few connections from past jobs at farms and whatnot from when I was a bit younger. So I would be able to get a lot of customers in the agricultural type of work. Is that business going to require... Go ahead. Well, what I'm getting at is he said house or start business.

And so I'm wondering, is there a lot of capital outlay? Like, are you going to have to put a lot of money into this to launch this business idea? So, again, I haven't really put a whole lot of thought. Like, I put a lot of thought towards starting the business, but I haven't really tallied up the numbers because I've just been told that for buying a house, if you're self-employed, the bank doesn't look super highly on that rather than if you make a steady income at a place that's been around for a lot longer they're going to want to see two well in america they're going to want to see two tax for two years of tax returns i don't know what it is in british columbia but two years of tax returns as a self-employed person proves you make money

other than that there's no problem at all being self-employed. But obviously, you can't move in there with – and again, I do not know the mortgage process in British Columbia. I can't comment on that. I'm ignorant about it. But you'd have to find that out. But I think you're probably – you're on the right track there with that issue. How much money do you have saved? So I currently have $35,000 in my my savings and then i got just under 30 000 invested okay good for you all right and um you you are in the welding and uh equipment services

business now making 35 an hour that's correct okay and so so do you have the ability to do side jobs in the same industry without stepping on your current employer's customers or stealing from them in any way? Yes, that's the other thing that I said. Sorry, my email earlier. I never mentioned that. Your phone's breaking up. I didn't understand you.

Try again. I do have the ability to work on side jobs from home and also from the shop without getting in the way of my current career. Yeah, without ethics problems with your current employer, right? Exactly. Okay. All right. So what I would do is I would not start my business full time. I would start at part time and start doing some side gigs.

And I would go get me a place to rent and just move out of your parents' house. You're 20 years old. And I would not buy a house right now. I would just keep piling up cash. You've got plenty of time. There's nothing to do with the housing market. It's got to do with where you are. And then I want you to build up that side gig, build up that side gig to where you're making more with it than you are during your day job. Then you're ready to quit

and run your business full time. The big deal here that you're going to discover, Jim, and I want you to discover this by actually doing it, not in theory, not discussing it. What you're going to discover is that doing the welding and being an excellent welder is a different skill set than running a business. You can be an excellent technician and still run the business poorly. You can run a business well and be a horrible technician people do that sometimes but uh what often happens is someone is a great chef and so they automatically assume they need a restaurant well it's a completely different thing to run a

restaurant than it is to be a chef the only thing that's in common is food that's the only thing i mean chef is one skill operating a business is another skill and that's in common is food. That's the only thing. I mean, chef is one skill. Operating a business is another skill. And that's what I'm seeing with you. So I think you're probably very good at what you do. You sound very competent and confident. And so I would want you to just build this up on the side. What do you think? Yeah, the only thing I'd add to that is while you're doing the work on the side,

see, there's no risk here. You're not all in. You got a great job, no conflict of interest. And now I'm learning the business with zero risk. And Dave's right. There's a process of welding and then there's, I'm selling these parts and that's a whole different ballgame. Then I'm running my business. And while I'm doing it on the side, I'm learning by experience, but I'm also going to sit with people who are winning in the industry. I will tell you this, Dave. I think the most underrated question in the history of the world is, will you help me? And will you help me in this case, a young man who's 20, who approaches a guy

maybe in his 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s and says, hey, I want to get into this business one day. Can I buy your lunch or coffee? And will you just tell me what I need to know? And you helping me is you just giving me some knowledge and some wisdom. And I have found that successful people are very willing to help that person who asked that question and shows up with a willingness to learn, pad and paper, notes on your phone. I don't care how you do it. And you do that here's what happens now you get all this wisdom and knowledge from somebody who's been way out in front of you and then you begin to apply it on the side and dave's right that picks right back up where dave's advice is at some point you're going to scale it to the point where you can walk away from the day job

right into working for yourself but there's no risk here. And patience is the key. It's hard to be patient when you're 20. I mean, crap, it's hard for me to be patient at 49, but it's really hard to be patient when you're 20. But patience is what sets you up for the long haul. And I think that's the only thing I'd add to what you said. I thought the advice was fantastic. So don't buy a house. Move out. Don't start your business full-time. Start it part-time. Build it up. Build it up. Build it up.

Build it up. Learn the business skills. And I'll send you a copy of our number one best-selling book, Entree Leadership. Yeah, great. Which is how we show people what our playbook has been on running a business, how we grew the Ramsey Solutions business from a card table in my living room to now almost 1,100 folks on the team and over $300 million a year in revenue. And we'll show you how we did that. But that's the skill set. It's a different set of skills than welding. And you got to be good at both to make this work. This is The Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Thanks for being here, America.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in and we will talk. Joe is in Lake Charles, Louisiana. Hi, Joe. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Yes, sir. Thank you all for taking my call. Sure. What's up so my

question today is um a couple at our church is offering to owner finance their house to us and I'm just calling to see if that is going to be a smart play with my current situation. Okay. Well, we can check your current situation, so how much debt do you have? Right now we're on baby step two. We still have about $42,000, which ranges from a credit card, car note. What's your household income? $65,000 to $70,000. So when do you plan to be done with the $42,000?

We're snowballing. I mean, by two and a half, three years would be. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. We tell folks, Joe, not to buy a home while they're in debt okay because um you know murphy will move in your spare bedroom and the water heater will break the roof will leak and the heat and air will go out and you're broke because you're still in debt and then you got a real mess on your hands So what appears to be a blessing because of the timing is not going to be a blessing. It would end up being a curse.

So I would tell you to wait. And that may mean that this couple sells the house to someone else, and that's fine. And God will have something else for you. There'll be another plan when you're ready. And you have a good emergency fund and a good down payment, and you have no debt. And you move into a house in that situation, house can be a blessing not a curse but when you move into a house broke you just get broker that's why they call them brokers you know it just it's a bad idea don't do it don't do it james is that ready yeah okay all right so uh they sent me this thing god ken this

i don't know if you saw this or not i haven't seen this this is a little bit it's not exciting it's not okay it's scary so i mean we get scam stuff all the time people using my name oh you know people using you know saying dave ramsey said do this dave ramsey's to do that and it's like well of course dave ramsey didn't say to do that that's done he wouldn't do that that's and you know anybody that knows us know that these things but then people that don't know us they think i'm endorsing you know bullcrap so this one pops up this one's scary because it's ai that's what i was gonna ask yeah so you're gonna play it play it this is on instagram this is the dumbest thing i've seen and i don't know when total credit card debt surged to 1.03 trillion dollars it marks the highest level ever on record that

part's all in the fed dating back all the way to 2003 um i have about 16 000 worth of debt um it includes a car a credit card the medical debt from the birth of our son okay so what you need to do and this applies to my listeners at home who have debt is go apply for an economic recovery package today do you hear me the fastest way is to settle it and pay pennies on the dollar for what you owe and you can do that using a free service through the economic recovery program today thank you sir wow hey we love you you hold on a second kelly's gonna pick up okay yeah the economic recovery package and pay pennies on the dollar and you of course you swipe down and you go to this website to buy their crap and uh and obviously i mean i said ai when i first heard it on my computer it was ai but when i heard it now just now in the studio that doesn't it's not even ai it's just a bad voice yeah he got one little

phrase he got one little phrase that was close But to somebody who doesn't listen to you much and did a drive-by on YouTube, that's nasty. That is really bad. It was an Instagram thing. So, of course, we got the attorneys on it. We were going to shut down Instagram, shut them down. But then they pop back up as quick as you shut them down because, you know, it's a scam. It's like whack-a-mole. Yeah, they're everywhere.

But they just, you know, you don't notice, but it would change from these earbuds in our ears to the microphone in front of our face. That's exactly right. And then the thing in front of your face, it makes it look like I'm saying it. And then closes out with me actually closing the call out. Of course.

The ultimate deception. Bookend it with actual real stuff from you. It's very, you know, that freaks me out. All fraudulently and in violation of copyright, by the way, too. But, yeah. Right. Wow. Wow.

So, no, we do not endorse the Economic Recovery Act, which doesn't even exist. Which, by the way, what a joke. Does not exist. There's no such thing. Economic Recovery Act. And you can settle your debts for pennies on the dollar. Yeah, you can do that. But what this is is one of these scam debt consolidation places.

Yes. And they're getting you into a debt consolidation process. Oh, my gosh. But that part was brilliant because that's the kind of fooeyness that we hear from D.C. They say things like economic recovery act. And we all go, oh, they're here to help. Yeah. Economic.

Yeah. Yeah. You're right. That's troubling, though. It's troubling. Ronald Reagan had a famous quote. He said the most scary words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Yeah. That's exactly right. Amen and amen. The Economic Recovery Act. What does that even mean? It's not even an act, by the way. Oh, it is an act, but it's not that kind of an act. Wow.

Wow. Crazy stuff. If you're going to try to rip your voice off, practice a little better than that. Come on, man. You sound like I was from California. Not enough Tennessee in that. No twang in that. Doug is in Grand Rapids.

Hey, Doug, what's up? Hey, Dave and Ken, how are you guys doing in grand rapids hey doug what's up hey dave and ken how are you guys doing today better than we deserve what's up hey excellent i'm glad i'm speaking to you guys i've been listening to the show for about six years now and a little bit embarrassing to state that my wife and i are not completely out of debt yet because we're what i like to say and i hear you say on the show all the time, we're sort of Ramsey-ish. We did successfully pay off $88,000 of student loans in 2021. Huge weight lifted off the shoulders and with all the student loan speak going on right now, it's amazing to not have to deal with that. But my question today has to do with Roth IRAs because we still have $62,000 in debt on three line items. Two of them are cars and one is a camper.

How much do you owe on a camper? Camper we owe $24,000. Okay. So one-third of this is a camper. Okay. Yep. And the other $40,000 or $38,000 is broken into what kind of car? How much on each one? or 38,000 is broken into how many, what kind of car? We have a 27 on the Tahoe and nine or almost 10,000 on an Edge.

Okay. All right. So you have a car and a camper problem. Okay. Yep. What's your household income? We bring in gross about 160 a year, so we're only at about 41% of our annual income, so a little bit below the 50% that you teach. Okay. And so, and you want to pull out your Roth? Well, the question

is, cause I've actually listened to the show for six years and I've never heard this question. So I may have a good one. Um, and I know you teach not to pull from retirement because of the penalties and taxes associated with doing that. But in our we each my wife and i each have a roth ira in my name i have a roth of ten thousand dollars um and she's got five thousand in her name and my question was about the cash equivalents because obviously after tax absolutely not this is not a roth problem or a tax problem or a penalty problem this is a doug problem doug really behavior you make 160 grand and you owe money on a camper yeah come on and you want to cash out your freaking retirement for a camper no we also rent that out no yeah no dave i'm in the camper investment business no you're not yeah you know better than that dude what's it worth you have any it doesn't matter it doesn't

matter it's gone yeah that's what i'm getting it's just gone it's depreciating either you pay these cars and these campers off in the next 18 months out of your cash flow, and you guys quit being ish, or, you know. Because here's the problem. You keep treating the symptom. And, you know, when you take this money out of retirement, and start with it's not enough to do spit. It's not enough money in there.

But if you did take it out you keep treating the symptom and the symptom is the debt the problem is the dug the dougie okay so so you gotta got you guys are gonna have to quit being ish that's what we're saying you're gonna have to get on a decent plan get on it get on every dollar you and your wife sit down and go okay we knocked out 88 000 now we look kind of foolish sitting here with these debts making 160 grand we make too much money to be this freaking broke you have no money in retirement doug i mean you have five thousand dollars it's pitiful it's pitiful and you make 160 000 a year come on on, man. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if

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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, we have a thing called the Debt-Free Stage. We also have a viewing area where you can come in and get free homemade chocolate chip cookies and coffee. Come by and visit us if you're in town from Boise, Idaho or something like that. So we've got a group of ladies sitting here on the front row. We just met them at the break from Boise. So, hey, people come from all over America and visit Nashville, and sometimes we're one of the places they stop and see. We do this show on the glass from 1 to 4 every day, central time.

And if you come and watch, you'll agree that it's pretty much like watching ugly paint dry. But there you go. Hey, I don't resemble that. Hey, hey. Watch out. What's happening? But also we have the debt-free stage in that lobby, and that's where Mike and Lindsay are. Hey, guys.

How are you? Hi. Doing good. Welcome. Where do you guys live? St. Louis, Missouri. There we go. Awesome.

And how much debt have you paid off? $360,000. Yo! How long did that take? About 32 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $120,000 to $350,000.

Okay. In three years, you over-double your income. We did. Almost triple it. Yeah. Wow. What do you all do for a living? I am an internal medicine doctor.

Ah, there we go. And I work in the financial services industry. Well, that's vague enough. Good. Okay. All right. Excellent. So now, yeah, so that's a way to double or triple your income, the financial services industry. Well, that's vague enough. Good. Okay. All right. Excellent. So now, yeah, so that's a way to double or triple your income, the two of you.

Excellent. Very good. So, goodness, what kind of debt was the 360? Mostly student loans. About $346,000 was student loans. Says the doc. Yeah. The rest was an investment loan and a car loan.

Okay. Wow. Very cool. How long have you been out of med school? About, well, out of medical school. No, I mean out of residency and everything. About three years. About three years.

So about this time. Yep. So you got out and you said, let's knock it out. Correct. Game on. Yep. All right. So how'd you get connected to this Ramsey stuff?

What made y'all do this? Yeah. So we were probably Dave-ish. I had heard about the Dave Ram ramsey show before lindsey and i got married which was six years ago and we were on our honeymoon and uh being the financial guy i was uh listening to the dave ramsey show podcast wow uh and then lindsey uh being like i think she was reading a book and she said what are you doing what are you listening to and it was uh the dave ramsey show we listened to the podcast um and that's how we got first

connected and then uh my family gifted us uh fpu for christmas as well okay and so then when she comes out of med school no question how what we're gonna do correct we're gonna knock this out pop done done done done very good lindsey i gotta ask you as the doctor in your world did you share the process the journey as you were doing it and if you did uh what did you find the reaction was and and i'm just curious how many other people that are in your shoes doctors that are actually even thinking about getting after it the way you all did uh yeah i mean we talk pretty openly about it um and honestly most of the people are not doing what we did a lot of the people are doing public service loan

forgiveness um or they just kind of are on the you know 10 20 year plan they'll eventually pay it off you know they make enough money um they want like the big expensive house or the fancy car and all that stuff doc itis correct did they look at you treat you like incredulously like what are you thinking no never that type of situation just more so could tell that they didn't necessarily agree with it right like that would be nothing that they would ever do yeah yeah but look at you yeah look at you. Yeah. Look at you. I'm completely free. 32 months. That's rowdy. Wow.

That is very cool. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Because you're successful at it. I would say my key is the budget. And then also, we always had really short-term goals, but then also having the longer-term goals. We were always having goals that we wanted to get done within like, you know, a month or two. And then also what's our goal five to 10 years from now? Like, what do we want life to look like?

So that's really what kept me going. Yeah, I would say like consistency. So like we knew how much money was going towards debt and we set that goal from the beginning and just kept on going. And also you guys have heard the phrase or used the phrase dream dates. That was huge for us. Keep us motivated.

Keep us going. Look to the future and what legacy we want to leave behind. You got to have a vision for your life. Correct. And when you have a shared dream, then that's the living like no one else. So that later we get to live and give like no one else. And you got to have that later in sight in high definition and be able to tell what's really going on with it. Way to go, you guys.

Way to go. I'm curious. I don't know if I've ever asked anybody this question, but you're a financial guy and you're in that world and so you're probably academically trained like i was uh the same way because there's probably uh i don't know two or three hundred podcasts and radio shows on money out there why why what was it that a financial guy goes well this is okay i can listen to this yeah i think for me it was honestly before getting married to lindsey i didn't know debt or have debt um and i knew he just threw you under the bus i brought all the debt and backed over i did have an investment loan in a small car loan. But I think the biggest thing is we knew before marriage that we wanted to tackle the debt.

And with COVID and no interest, we wanted to get it out of our lives for good. I mean, why were you listening to this show? Dave, it's because of your personality. Oh, my God. Let me scoot over so his head can fit in here hold on you and i uh no i just really liked uh the principles the baby steps uh now we're on four five and six it made sense it made sense clear path the clear path made sense yeah okay that that i'll buy. Way to go, you guys. We're very proud of you.

Congratulations. Thank you. And also, you've had a baby. Yes. All right. And brought him with you, right? We did. He's four now.

No longer a baby. Yeah, that's right. Wow. Very cool. Very cool. So six years married, four-year-old, and 32 months after med school. Boom. This is gone hey we got a copy of the uh

baby steps millionaires book for you in the live and give box and the baby the total money makeover book and a financial peace university membership probably got all those already but you can give them away and i find somebody who wants them and so what's the four-year-old's name christopher all right christopher here we go, man. Ready? Your mom and dad have changed your life, buddy. You don't even know how much yet. You have a family tree that has been changed by two heroes right here. $360,000 paid off in 32 months, making $120,000 to $350,000. Mike, Lindsey, and Christopher from St. Louis, count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, and Christopher from St. Louis, count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah! That is how it's done. You gotta love it. So, Ken, there is an antidote to the student loan crisis.

And we just observed it. Yeah. There's human beings taking responsibility because the private student loan forgiveness, as she said, some of these docs are counting on, has a 1.6% success rate. 98.4% of the people that apply for that do not get it that's all of them so these docs are screwed up by betting their their futures on the private student loan forgiveness or the public student loan forgiveness act it's it doesn't work it's another time your government has lied to you.

And so we're going to be having this coming Tuesday night, Jade Warshaw, Rachel Cruz, me, are going to be doing a free live stream for a couple of hundred thousand of you that are going to be viewing. It's at 7 p.m. Central Time this coming Tuesday night. Student loan debt in America. How we got here and how we're going to get out. We're going to show you some real solutions. This is Ramsey Solutions.

That's what we're here for. And we're not here for something that's going to – if you're looking for easy, I can't help you with easy. If you're looking for microwaving quick, I can't help you with that. We sell crockpots, baby. 32 months. They've been scratching and clawing those folk 32 months they went through financial peace university they listen to the podcast they've read the books 32

months of nothing and now they're free 360 000 in debt wow yeah go to ramsey solutions.com slash student loans and sign up for tuesday night this is the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today joe's with us in houston te. Hi, Joe. How are you? Pretty good. So my question today, Dave and Ken, is I work for an automation supplier company for the oil and gas industry. I've been here for almost a year. My responsibilities have increased a lot more than I thought they would, and I would like to bring up getting a raise to my leadership and stuff like that, and kind of wanted to know about how to go about doing that. How much, have you got a number in your mind, a percentage that you've done some research on,

or is this just a hunch and a feeling? So I'm definitely making less than what I was previously with the job I left in, you know, uh, where we were maintenancing the solutions that were, uh, being sold by, by, uh, different companies. And now I'm designing and implementing those. Uh, so I took a pay cut to come to this job for more freedoms, more responsibilities and chances to grow. And the number I've got is about 12 to 15 percent. Is what you want as a raise? Yes. And you've been there a year. Have you had an annual review or is that process in place? So I had a six-month review and everything with that was gold stars from what I was told. So when did the increased responsibilities get

put on you? Give me a timeline. At the six-month mark. And you were told this. It was like, hey, here's what we're doing. You're doing a great job. Gold stars. Now we're going to add this, this, this, and this. Is that how it went? Yes. Did you bring up, okay, hey, I'm glad for the review. Is there an increase in comp? What's that look like? How am I measured? Did you bring that up at the time? So I brought that up at the time and the company I work for is growing. And so they were like, okay, we're going to push off your raise. And so then I asked for a 6%. They said, we're going to push it off till October. Well, then the responsibilities that it was supposed to increase,

it's gone beyond that in the six months because we're developing a new department for our branch, and I've been kind of given that. Okay, and that's now in between. I make $82,500. Okay, and so you're asking for like $10,000? Yeah. Okay. And so you're asking for like $10,000? Yes. Okay.

All right. And they're supposed to review it in October anyway, so just a few weeks. Yes. Yes, sir. Okay. All right. I'd hold the line. I'd hold the line on the number if, and again, Dave, I want you in the owner role.

Yeah, but it's all the narrative of how you couch it, okay? Yeah. So just the best way to do a lot of these things, especially in business, is just trade shoes for a minute, okay? If you're the leader, you're the owner, you're the manager that's making these decisions, okay, how would you want to be addressed? How would you want this conversation to sound? And I'm an owner of a company i'll tell you

how i want it to sound um i'm happy to talk to anybody about their comp i'm happy for them to talk to leadership here anytime about their comp uh and and you know here's the thing you're not entitled to anything you earn it and you have said you're earning it but i mean i had one guy come in my office joe a few years ago and he's like well i've got this degree and that degree the poor guy had more degrees than a thermometer and he he said you know people that have degrees like me at other places you know they make uh fifty thousand dollars more a year than i'm paying and i said yeah then you're they're paying me i said understand that, but we don't pay for degrees here. This is a small business, honey.

Your raise is effective when you are. Okay. And so that's what the owner is looking for. Your raise is effective when you are. You've made the case to me, listening to you, that you've been effective, and you've gotten the increased responsibility, and you're stepping up, and you're taking emotional ownership of these areas. And so you're a valuable team member is what it sounds like to me.

And so but the way you want to couch it, if you're on the other side of the desk, is how, Joe? I mean, think about it. You want to say not I deserve more money. Simply go, I think I'm adding a lot of value. Do you think I'm adding a lot of value? If I'm adding value, I need to ask you, how do I go about talking to you guys in a proper way without sounding ungrateful? Because I'm very grateful. I love this place. I love the opportunity. I love the growth. I love the added responsibility.

And, you know, what's the right way if you're me to ask you guys about compensation? And I'd really like to make more and what do I need to is there anything I'm not doing that I'm that I'm doing you know is there anything I can add or is there something do I need to do something different to qualify for some increased compensation and if somebody says to me how can I what can I do to make myself more valuable so you want to give me more money that's an easy that's an easy thing for me as an owner i can do that one okay i can go okay because you know like i had a guy one time he's working on a deal and he brought in an extra million dollars that really happened that blew

my mind he just he added this thing to a deal he was doing negotiating a deal for us and he added this thing and so and his commission structure did not pay him on that million dollars but you know what we paid him anyway you know why because i want him to do that again okay because he added value you see what i'm talking about so a lot of value in that case that's a big number but the the thing is here, I think you say, I think I'm adding value. Am I adding value? And if I'm not adding enough, what do I need to be doing to qualify for increased compensation? Because I really want to be one of your best team members, and I also want to make some good money.

And tell me how to do that, man. I agree with that. However, I would also add to this, Joe, they promised you a 6%. I would ignore that because I think he's due a lot more than 6%. 6% is a joke in this. Yeah, maybe. He needs to make it. He's got to have some marketplace research on that.

Like if somebody comes to us and says – Yeah, but he's in a startup and they're adding stuff. They're adding new products. They're adding new projects and things to his plate, left and right, left and right. And he's making 80 already. He's worth another 10. I think he is, but he's got to make that case. And I'm just pointing out that he's going in asking for 12 to 15.

They've asked six. He needs to show market ranges. I wouldn't ask for 12, 15. I would ask an open-ended question. Okay, because he was saying he wants 12. We had talked about six back in the summer. I feel like I'm doing all these things. What have I got to do?

Oh, I agree. I always say that, too. And, you know, that kind of thing. And then if they come back at six, you go, okay, I need to know what I got to do to get double that. Because I kind of thought I was in that zone, and apparently I'm not. And they've added responsibilities. And, you know, if you talk to me that way and you don't start trying to –

but as soon as somebody starts playing hardball with us at Ramsey on Ray's negotiation, we just go, you know, it's probably not going to work out here because we're not going – you're going to negotiate? Come on. I mean, ask how you can help. And if you kill it and drag it in here, we'll share it with you, baby. I mean, ask how you can help. Yeah. And if you kill it and drag it in here, we'll share it with you, baby. Yeah. I mean, it's not we're not greedy, but but, you know,

just I show up every day and breathe. And so I get money. That's not what Joe's doing. Right. But if you if you're out there and you think, well, I just show up every day and I'm, you know, actually took a shower daily and I expect a raise. I mean, come on, man. There's no just shower daily raise. That's there's not one of those. So, you know, it's crazy what's out there and the way people think about this stuff. So, you know, here's the thing. If you want to be an extremely valuable team member, always be asking how you can add value, how I can lift the place, not what I can take from it. So if we're interviewing someone and the first two sentences,

all they want to know is what they get, then we're done with the interview because they're there to take. They're not there to add. They're going to work a J-O-B, work as little as possible, come in late, leave early, and steal while they're there. And so you want to present that the exact opposite of that scenario agree when you're uh interviewing or when you're negotiating so to speak for a raise but it's not negotiating no it's asking leading questions yes and also being informed in what you're asking you know we had a guy come in another day in in one of our technology roles

a very unusual niche role but he said i got it I got a recruiter coming at me offering me X more. And he goes, I don't want to leave. It's a crazy amount of money. He goes, what should I do? And that's a way to approach it. I love that. If you don't match this guy, I'm out of here. Right.

Because we'd be going, see you, wouldn't want to be you, you know? That's right. But if he comes in and goes that you know what we were not able to match it but he wanted to stay we were able to respond to his situation and make him feel good about staying by giving him a great raise and it was it was an unscheduled raise hello so that's okay all that's fine but this is a how you the attitude you approach it are you a giver or are you a taker are you a parasite or are you someone that's adding to the whole process and if you're adding

to the process and the people don't respect that with your in your wallet you probably need to look for another place joe i think you got a good situation and you're a good guy this is going to work out for you this is the ramsey show hey it Ken. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey, we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Go to RamseySolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter. Again, that's RamseySolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.