The Ramsey Show - App - Buried Problems Have a High Rate of Resurrection! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

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Welcome to the Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show. Where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz. Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, New York Times best-selling author,

is my co-host today as we talk about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jennifer is in Washington, D.C. to start off this hour. Hi, Jennifer, how are you? I'm doing great, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call today. Our pleasure. How can we help?

First of all, oh, yeah, so I want to thank you guys, number one, for everything you do. It's awesome. I just love your show, and I've been listening for a couple years, kind of off and on. I wish I knew about you 20 years ago. But, hey, at least I do now, and I'm doing better. Go ahead. So right now, so I'm 47, my husband's 54. We're both working full time. We owe right now about $377,000 on our house. We have no other

debt. So we have everything else is paid. We do are putting 15% for retirement. We do have a good amount in our 529 for our two kids. We have a 19 year old and a six year old. Wonderful. So we have about 70 grand for the 19 year old and about 20 so far for the six year old. It's been pretty well. So my question for you is I've talked my husband into close to it anyway of, hey, let's just pay our house, right? So number one, I think that's the way to go, but then how quickly do we do that? And then, or do I do that and mutual funds? Or that's where I'm kind of struggling. Do we just dump everything into the house, or do we look at maybe mutual funds as well, or not look at that till after the house is paid? Do you mean above your 15%, Jennifer? Exactly. Yes. Sorry. Yes. Well, I would, I mean, again, the baby steps are there, right? So 15% of your income to retirement,

you know, you said your kid's college is there. So I would throw everything else at the house. How much do you guys make? We make about, so after taxes a month, it's about 14 grand. So we do pretty well. And I don't want to work forever. I want to retire early. My husband thinks I'm crazy, but I really, I just want to get the house done. But so do it. Cause I had kind of figured out a plan. I said, Hey, we can pay it in like six or seven years doing the math, but do I not do the math or just kind of dump as much as we have left over, or that's where I'm struggling. I'm a finance person for my job, and I'm kind of like I want the calculation of how to do that.

Well, what we talk about is up through baby step three, which you're through that. You have to be intense. You have to be intense. You have to be intense. You do nothing until you get those steps done. Out of debt and have your emergency fund in place. And then when you move into baby steps four, five, and six, those are simultaneous. And you move from intense to intentional.

And what that means is you're a finance person. So let's just set a formula to this. There's three things we can do with money. We can give it, be generous with it, and you should. You can enjoy it, and you should. That's lifestyle and purchases and so forth. And we should invest it, and you should. And so paying off your home here is a type of move, an investment-type move.

So the point is if you dump every little single thing out of your whole life and you have absolutely no life until you get the house paid off, that is not a recommendation. Okay. That's not intentional. That's intense. Now, if you had a bunch of credit card debt, I would do that. I'd set your hair on fire until you get this done, right? But this is not here.

We're just going to be intentional. So we're going to do our 15 of our income into retirement no more investing other than that other than if you're going to add do something to supplement the kids college and you may need to do a little of that uh and then beyond that money that we find every dollar we consume on a trip or a car purchase or a consumption means we don't reduce the house. And every dollar we put on the house means we don't enjoy that money today. We're going to enjoy that money later. Okay? So you don't want to do all of either.

In other words, enjoy it all and put nothing extra on the house. Bad idea. But put so much on the house that the budget is so tight that it's no fun bad idea and so i would set myself budgets for lifestyle inside of your existing monthly budget and then just say any extra we're going to throw it at the debt and right now that looks like five thousand dollars a month that looks like six thousand dollars a month whatever it is until we get the house paid off now when the house is paid off that's baby step seven then you load you max out all your mutual fund i mean all your retirement accounts and you you know you

increase your outrageous generosity at that point and you increase your outrageous enjoyment of money at that point because then you've you know that's the touchdown you now you do the touchdown dance so rachel's exactly right uh whatever found money you know if we want to go back to our old uh econ class disposable income that we have beyond our basic investments beyond our basic living and enjoyment of money every dollar we can find beyond that i'm gonna throw it at the house because i'm gonna get done as fast as I can without putting my family in a strain. And I'm going to say with the numbers you've got, it's probably about a five-year mark you're going to be done. And what happens, too, one of the reasons that's in the baby steps versus just living with the mortgage for 30 years like most people do is because once you have no payments, then you suddenly have so many options to enter from.

You said you wanted to retire early, and that's not crazy if you've got a paid-for house and no bills. I mean, sure. And by then, you will have substantial investments as well. Yes, absolutely. So it just opens up a whole other level. I mean, obviously, getting out of debt, consumer debt does that. But when you don't have a mortgage even, not even a house payment, it's like tenfold. It just gives you so many options.

So I don't think you're crazy for wanting to retire early. You're probably just great. Yeah, get it paid off as fast as you can without pension down on everything to the point nobody can breathe. Yes. Now, if you can't breathe in baby steps one through three, you're doing it right. I mean, you need to be wild on that one. I mean, you need to be in panic mode. You don't have an emergency fund.

You've got a bunch of car debt, student loan debt, credit card debt, and that kind of stuff. That's when you're a normal American, and you have a mess, and you need to clean up your normal because normal sucks. But that's not where you are. You've moved from that intense section of one through three to intentional, and this is where baby step millionaires are born. They get the home paid off uh last hour we had a debt-free call or a debt-free scream here in the in the audience and they're 39 years old and eight hundred thousand dollars before they're 40 yes yes before and they paid off an eight hundred thousand dollar house in austin texas yeah and we didn't ask them details about their investments but their investments are well in excess of $200,000.

So they are not even 40 and they're millionaires. Why? They've exactly followed what I just outlined for the last five minutes with her. This idea of intensity until you're debt free and have the emergency fund, then intentionality, 15% of your income into retirement, kids college is addressed, and baby step six, pay off the house with any disposable extra income we can squeeze out of our budget and throw at it without putting the family in some kind of a ridiculous strain.

Yep, absolutely. And you'll do it in five years. You really will. And it's enjoyable that way. Yeah, and you just wake up and you go, well, there it is. I did it. There it is. I did it.

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You can take back your life. You can start building the life you want. And we're going to help you get there. We've helped almost 10 million people get there with Financial Peace University. It's a proven plan. These baby steps we talk about all the time, we walk you right through it. And we've helped millions of people pay off their debt. And lots of everyday millionaires, lots of baby steps millionaires out there that we've helped millions of people pay off their debt, and lots of everyday millionaires,

lots of baby steps millionaires out there that we've met. And that's why you get the premium version of our budgeting tool, EveryDollar. It's in there, so you can do all the planning and everything. Rachel helps teach you how to run the EveryDollar app, and it's all only available as a Ramsey Plus membership. Financial Peace University, EveryDollar, many other things as well, all at Ramsey Plus. To start your free trial at Ramsey Plus membership. Financial Peace University, EveryDollar, many other things as well, all at Ramsey Plus. To start your free trial at Ramsey Plus, text TRIAL to 33789.

Text TRIAL to 33789. Also, Ramsey Plus members get access to stuff like this Money in Marriage event, which is coming up one week from Friday. It is Friday the 16th, and it's Rachel and Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz and Dr. John Deloney, Money in Marriage. It's the second time they've done the event together. They did it at Valentine's. It was amazing.

And this event has really been hugely popular. If you're not a Ramsey Plus member, it's only $20 right now. Prices are going to go up this week. One week out, they're going to be more expensive. So either get your $20 purchase or get your free trial to Ramsey Plus. And while you're in there, you can watch the Money in Marriage event as well.

Again, text TRIAL to 33789. If you want to just buy the $20 ticket, you can text MARRIAGE to 33789 and get signed up either way. Our question of the day comes from this wonderful American company, Blinds.com. They're a 100% satisfaction guarantee place.

That means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they're going to remake your window blinds for free. You have free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best possible deal. And today's question comes from Matthew in Tennessee. My fiance and I will be getting married in November. We're both 20 years old.

I make $60,000 as a welder. She makes $12,000 as a preschool teacher and is in college. I have no debts and also 401K. She has about $5,000 in student loans and a car loan. We have an apartment together and a joint bank account that I put money in for her to handle my bills while I'm out of town for work. What does the whole process look like when combining finances after getting married? Well, Matthew, you sound like you're kind of already doing it a little bit. So between now and November, I know it sounds like a hassle, but honestly, I would still practice separating those

finances until you guys officially are married in November. Stuff happens and you never know. So I would still keep things separate. I would not pay on her debt right now. I would be paying my own bills. Again, keeping it separate until you guys get married, say I do. And then the moment you guys do that, then what you're doing now, which is a little bit of practice, which is good, is the joint checking account. So having one account that you guys are working out of. This is a big hurdle for a lot of couples. It's tough for them to combine accounts for many different reasons, but that's a tactical step for you guys to do. And then see this debt that she's bringing in, which is some student loans and a car loan as your debt, that it's our debt together once we're

married. And for you guys to pause that 401k that you have and take all the extra money you guys have and pay off this debt and get an emergency fund. So that's kind of the way to look at it, the plan. But there is such a push for me when you get married and only when that you say, okay, we have one budget, we have one account we're working out of, and that unity is created, kind of almost this forced communication in a sense, after the wedding. Yeah. After the wedding, when you do one checking account, that forces you to talk about money and to have a planned budget. Because if you don't, you're going to overdrive the account because she's writing checks, you're writing checks,

she's using debit card, you're using debit card. And we don't know what the balance is. So the only way you can run an account together is it forces you to communicate about it. It forces you to have a budget and to stick to it. Because if you don't, you're going to screw up your checking account. You're going to overdraft. And you're going to be mad at each other because you can't just run off and do your own thing anymore. Cause you're married.

This is how marriage works. You do it together. And here's the beautiful part about the whole thing. When you combine your spending and you agree on your spending, Jesus said your treasure is where your heart is. When you're in agreement about what our future looks like and that we are moving in the same direction, treasure is where your heart is when you're in agreement about what our future looks like and that we are moving in the same direction you create a level of unity in your marriage a level

of communication you cannot do with any other subject money forces you to combine your value system you have to say we value saving we value generosity we value investing. We value generosity. We value investing. We value spending money on X or Y as a couple. And or she values this, and I love her, and so this is something that we put the category in for her. And I value her having that thing whatever it is art class or what i don't care what it is okay but it's not just you know the mistake that people are making in our culture today and it's going to be so detrimental 10 years into your marriage 20 years in your

marriage it's gonna be a problem is you think that you can live this life of independence with your roommate. And that is not marriage. And you're going to get into a problem. And you guys are probably going to talk about that in the Money and Marriage. Yes, because it's so interesting. I'm independent. Then don't get married. No, out of all the things that I talk about specifically on social media the one thing

that people get so angry i mean i mean the con it's the most hateful comments that i get is when i say join your bank accounts i mean you would think that i like ran over someone's dog and like laughed in their face i mean like you would think i'm the most horrible person in the world and so what i'm finding is the more and more I dig into the subject, which, again, John and I are unpacking so much of this, because it's not just that. It's not, I just want to join my checking account. There's a level of control people have. There's a level of trust that they don't have with theirs. I mean, there's so many of those issues, you guys, that is underneath that surface.

Really, they don't want to deal with their crap. That's it, too. And they get mad at you. The avoidance. But they call it, to deal with their crap. That's it, too. And they get mad at you. The avoidance. But they call it, like, feminism or something. Well, you don't want women to have a voice. No, we demand they have a voice in the budget with their husband. Right, right.

We demand the husband has a voice in there with his wife. And I'm telling you, too, money fights and conflicts. When it's avoided, sure, you're not having it because you're not talking about it you're living two separate lives financially and if people say why well we just fight all the time so like it's just worth not like if you're choosing to avoid what's going on in this situation what other things are not you're not you're not pressing into conflict at all right let me help you with this in marriage avoidance is not a technique less parents says buried buried problems have a high rate of resurrection they're coming up yeah but it just but it again it's it's this mirror of like all this other stuff so it's

just funny i'm like you will share a child like you will create a human being and share a child and share decision making about that but don't tell me i have to share my money because i'm independent but that but it is crap i know but it is strong out there with people so it's big it's big so it's fun to well it's misguided toxic version of ladies having their voice yes ladies ladies need to have their voice. Yeah, there's that side of it, yes. That's what they're attacking. But there's also another side where it's like,

I don't want to deal with this. See, don't bitch at me about that. They're bitching at you because you're a woman. Maybe that's what it is. I don't know, but it's that side. But there's also the guy side, too, saying stuff like,

oh, I don't want to deal with it. We're so much better if we're just separate. Oh, I know that. So I'm like, dude, you've got to step up. They're not hating on you, though. Oh. Oh, were they? Oh, everyone know that. So I'm like, dude, you've got to step up. They're not hating on you, though. Oh.

Were they? Oh, everyone hates it. I love it. I like to be liked. I love it. Hey, stir up a holy ruckus. I like a good holy ruckus. It's a good thing.

This is The Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Evan and Anna are with us. Hey, guys. How are you? Hi, Dave and Rachel. Hey, how's it going, guys? Welcome. So good to have you. Where do you guys live? We are from Bedford, Texas, basically DFW. Okay, wonderful. So good to have you. Welcome to Nashville. I'm here to do a debt-free scream. How much did you pay off? Just over $62,500.

All right, very good. And how long did this take? 14 months. Wow. And your range of income during that time? $80,000 to $140,000. Wow. Nice jump. Nice jump in a year. Somebody get a job or a raise or what?

Well, I'm based off commission sales, so. Had a good year. Yes. I like it. What kind of debt was the $63,000? It was a little bit of everything. So student loans was the biggest chunk and then we had car payments uh some medical debt and then we also leased some cell phones that was included so

just everything you were kind of normal yes very all right what do y'all do for a living i work from home i work for a non nonprofit. We specialize in early childhood education, and I work in accounting. Okay. And then I work for a tech company that focuses on the used car and wholesale business. Oh, very nice. Well, yeah, that's a good place to be right now, too. Yeah, things are happening. Very good.

So how long have you guys been married? It'll be six years in August. August 15th. Five years into your marriage, four years into your marriage, something flipped and you said, I don't want to be normal anymore. Tell me the story. What happened? So we have both known about you and your plan since about high school.

I actually, my church growing up offered financial peace. So I went through the class and then you read the Total Money Makeover, I believe, in high school as well. So we both knew about the plan, but we got really serious about it. I started listening to the podcast right when we got married, and we would always say, oh, one day we'll do this. But it got really real for us when we had our daughter. And when we went from two full-time incomes down to me working part-time at home,

we kind of started to feel the financial stress of that. How old are you guys? We're 29. Okay. part-time at home, like, we kind of started to feel the financial stress of that. So, that's kind of what... How old are you guys? We're 29. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Because there's something about a baby that says, okay, you got to grow up now.

Yes. For sure. It's like, I remember that. I was like, oh, crap, this just got real. Oh, yes. Especially with commission-based sales. Oh, yeah. It's not a game anymore.

No. Yeah. it's like people want to eat now yeah and stuff and stuff yeah and diapers and stuff yeah and pediatrician bills and stuff yes that's what i got yeah wow for sure you guys are amazing i love it what a great why though that's about as noble a thing to say all right i'm gonna throw my shoulders back we're gonna get our act together because we got to take care of this baby yes when you see your baby yeah it's very real yeah so did one of you kind of push it you're like okay that i when did you feel the urgency more than the other yes i would say it was me i we started getting especially after the baby

we started getting like all the medical bills after that and i was like oh my gosh and we were both very overwhelmed and i was like okay we got to take care of this so i pulled like our last three months of bank activity and i was like had my excel sheet and i'm like we're spending how much money on like amazon and eating out and so i just said to him i was like those two categories alone yes yes absolutely exactly so i just can't keep up with it i knew like we could definitely survive off of the income from switching me switching to part time. So I just said, not only can we do this, we can attack our debt and let's go. And he was.

I was all for it. It happened like two months before COVID hit as well, which is great. So it's like perfect. The Lord's timing really. Yes. With all that, because if not, commissions took a pretty big hit, let's say, at the beginning of COVID until most recently. Wow. And now they've come back like on fire.

Absolutely. Like doubled up. Yes. So very good. Well, that's so fun, you guys. Congratulations. Thank you. How's it feel?

It feels amazing. Free. It's so, yes. Relaxing, especially from a commission. Because since our whole marriage I've only worked in commission my entire adult career and so not having to worry about

what we're going to make month to month like if I have a good month great if I have a bad month it's okay we've got isn't it weird though

you end up making more sales it is it's a stress you're not focused I tell our sales guys all the time I say we've got to get you making some money

because a hungry salesperson has a smell. You know, the customer, they can smell it on you. They're like, oh, this guy needs this sale or I need this stuff, you know. So, yeah. Absolutely. And when you relax, it's just like, I don't, you know, and then you take care of the customer and voila, the sale happens. It's very cool. It's awesome.

Congratulations. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? For me, it's been starting and keeping it top of mind, especially just in my job in the car business. Everybody talks about how much money they make and how they spend all of their money. And so when you get the money, now I just don't spend it. I didn't go to lunch for like everybody would ask,

oh, we're going to lunch today. Oh, I brought lunch, I didn't go to lunch for, like, everybody would ask, oh, where are you going to lunch today? Oh, I brought lunch. Where did you go to lunch today? Oh, I brought lunch. And they knew I had, like, a set, you know, $20 a week for food or for going out. And so now I have two guys at work doing the same thing. So they're all. You're a trendsetter, baby.

You got everyone on board, yeah. Yes. She's a trendsetter. I love it. I love it. So what was the hardest part? Because I know being a new parent, I mean, you get the stress of that. Yes. She's a trendsetter. I love it. I love it. So what was the hardest part? Because I know being a new parent, I mean, you get the stress of that. Yes.

I mean, and then you're changing the way you're doing your money. What was the hardest part, would you say? I think we love eating out. And so that's where most of our money was going. We realized that. And so just kind of saying like, okay, we got to sacrifice this and just keep moving. And so we were eating a lot at home, and that was hard. And just the slow process, we're like instant gratification,

like, okay, let's just go. And so it was a little bit of a slower process, and it just took discipline of it. We never bought big purchases, like if we needed a fridge or a couch, we never put it on a credit card or anything like that. But we always, if we wanted something new, it was like, oh, we've got the extra money, let's just spend it because we already have it instead of putting it towards something with a purpose necessarily.

We had a fridge that was hanging on by a thread right before all this, and we're like, we're not buying a new one. We're waiting until we're debt-free. And you made it? We made it. And we have a new fridge. That's a nice thread. Yes. Nice thread that was hanging on by. Yes. Very made it all right. And we have a new fridge. That's a nice thread. Yes.

Nice thread that was hanging on by. Yes. Very good. Very good. And so you brought the new baby with you. What's her name and age? Joelle. She's two.

All right. Sweet thing. Look at her. All right. So, yeah, you changed her family tree, didn't you? Yes. Congratulations. We were practicing the scream in the car ride on the way here.

We've got a copy of the legacy journey for you because that's what this represents. You've changed your legacy. And a copy of Total Money Makeover for you to give one of those guys with the packed lunches to spur them on and show them how to win with this. Yes. Show them how to do what you did. Thank you. So proud of you guys. You're heroes.

Thank you so much. You're heroes for Joelle. Show them how to do what you did. Thank you. So proud of you guys. You're heroes. Thank you so much. You're heroes for Joelle. She's precious. Very, very cool. Good stuff. All right, Evan, Anna, and Joelle, $63,000 paid off in 14 months, making $80,000 to $140,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. This is how it's done. Man, that is so fun. So sweet. Oh, my gosh. I just think about everyone listening that's in their 40s and 50s thinking, Oh, if i was 29

it's amazing it's amazing it frees up so much yeah when i first started doing this somebody would say you know uh where were you 20 years ago i was going i was broke i was deep in debt just like you what are you talking about now 20 years ago I was sitting right here so that's right a little time has passed but you know where were you 20 years ago

I don't know I was sitting here I don't know where you are but well what I love about their story is I'm like you can decide like that's just proof

that you just wake up you're like I don't like where we are we're going to just do something different and it happens you know I mean and there wasn't

obviously a lot of work a lot of to show yes all of the grit and the grind through those 14 months. But you get to make it. They could they could have lived how they've lived for the first five years in their marriage forever, you know, and just making the decision to do something different is powerful. And here's what's interesting.

I mean, every debt free screen, it's not 100 percent, but it's 90 something percent During the time they're getting out of debt, their income increases. He goes from 80 to 140 while she comes home to part-time. Yep, yep. So, I mean, you just decide, I'm going to change. I'm not going to do this. And there's a power to that, like you just said. There's a power to make. I have the freedom and the right to decide to not live like this anymore.

I've had it. And you can change. You just decide. Just like that. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 james is with us in boise idaho hi james how are you hi dave and rachel i'm calling on behalf of my wife. She's fighting metastatic cancer right now.

And she said that your radio program has helped her to get through all the therapy by hearing you help our fellow Americans with their issues. And she finds it very motivating. My goodness. This call is about our younger son. He's turning 30, and we need to have a tough conversation with him, we think. We're going to call him Ian, not his real name. Just a little background on him. He was in ROTC.

Then he served seven years in the military. He immediately landed a great federal job, and he loves it, compensates him well. He's got a zero debt emergency fund. He's putting 45% of his income into the federal savings programs and IRAs and so forth. His wife of six years divorced him against his wishes. And before that divorce was finalized, he began dating a 26-year-old girl. And at the one-year point that they're dating, he gave her an $11,000 engagement ring, paid cash for it. We've seen some red flags. We've met her on three different occasions.

He plans to move in with his fiancée in a home that is titled in her name. And when she was here recently, she told us openly that they're going to use his money for the expense of improvements on her home and for an exotic honeymoon. And she, on the other hand, seems to be giving up on her career and on earning money. She's got a degree in education, certified teacher. She quit the teaching job. She wants to stay home and play in the garden and have him do everything. You know, in the mid-20s. And they both say they do not plan to have any children,

and she'll maybe take an occasional tutoring job or something. She had plans to get a psychology degree, become a school counselor, but since they're engaged, she's dropped those plans. And the help that we're seeking from you is, you know, my wife, again, with the cancer saying that she would never forgive herself if she died and had not alerted him to these red flags or these issues that we're seeing. Our son at 30 is very stubborn, always has been, although he has admitted a couple of times that, you know, remember this,

you were right, and on hindsight I should have listened to you, so that, you know, we have some hope there. And my wife, with the cancer treatment that she's going through, she's really highly motivated to discuss this with them in a loving way and in a compassionate way. She's not sure how to go about that effectively. Oh, James. Well, number one, I'm so sorry about your wife. That's heart-wrenching watching someone you love go through cancer.

It's devastating, to say the least. I'm so sorry about that. Thank you. And then you're, so the divorce is finalized, I'm assuming now at this point, with your son, correct? From his ex-wife. Yeah, so it's done, and he's moved on to this relationship, and you obviously don't care for her, right? Would you say, besides the money aspect and the motivation for quitting teaching and working, how is she as a person? Like you don't, do you question her character

and who she is? I'm not sure how to answer that. I mean, she comes from a big family, loving family and has good relationships with them. It's just that it appears to us she's incredibly selfish and doesn't do anything to clean up after herself, expects others to do things for her. That to me is kind of a significant character flaw. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I hear that.

So for me, as I'm sitting here as a daughter in her 30s with my dad sitting next to me, as we're having, I mean, when you're... Uh-oh, we're going to have family therapy. No, we're not. No, but if my parents had concern for decisions I was making as an adult, I think that we have enough of a history of a foundation of a relationship, to be open and honest,

that we can have a talk about it, right? But I think there's a level that you're not going to be able to control him, right? You're not going to be able to make his decisions. He's a 30-year-old man at this point. And so I would almost take it as almost a friend just to say, hey, Ian, just a heads up, I'm seeing this and this. And from my experience and from being married to your mom this long, like this is what we see about marriage.

And we just see this. Do you see it at all? And almost making it more of his idea and going at it more on a peer to peer conversation versus I'm your dad and mom and we're going to still parent you as a 30 year old man. Does that make sense? Because I think the tone at which you have the conversation is extremely important. And I think also if a parent and a child, for him, a grown adult child, and your parents, if you guys still have a relationship where you talk and there's depth there, there's

a level that you guys can have these kind of conversations that should be okay. But also, if there's not a ton of relationship there, the conversation may not go very far. If you activate his stubborn bone, this is over. Okay. Right? Yes. He'll bow up, won't he? Yes, it will.

I mean, he's not a little wuss. He's a military man. He's 30 years old. He's got a good mind, and he's got a stubborn streak. And if you activate that, he's going to bow up. You know that. So you know where the minefields are. And I can tell you how to activate it.

Use your dad voice. Use your mom voice. Use a guilt trip, Mom's's got cancer and the last thing she wants you to do is be marrying this chick none of that'll work all of that will activate his stubborn bone he'll say i'll show you i think i'm just an old man talking i'm not a psychologist what do you think yeah there's a lot of wisdom in what you're saying i can understand it i can see it we do have a good relationship with him. It's just that if he hears something that he doesn't agree with,

he tends to, you know, shut down. Well, I've got a good relationship with all three of my grown kids, and the basis on which I could approach this is the basis that I have up until now, as adults, I have largely respected their boundaries. And so now I've got to respect their boundaries again. I think it's one of the most frustrating phases of parenting is when you can no longer tell them what to do. Instead, you have to talk them into it or make it their idea. So what I try to do, it helps me not to use my dad voice because it's ineffective now.

My dad voice just doesn't work anymore. It doesn't even work on the grandkids. I tried it there. It doesn't work there either. Completely, I've lost it. It's gone. So Papa Dave's lost my dad voice. But the point, all joking aside, the way I help, it helps me reframe my mind.

And I think your wife is the one that really, because she's so concerned about this and emotional about it, and it's her daughter-in-law, which is a really touchy process anyway. And you've gone through one bad one, right? And so now we don't want a second bad one and all that. Yuck. I have to reset my mind. And I go, okay okay i am not talking to my son-in-law my daughter my daughter-in-law my son i'm talking to my friends kids that are 30 now how would i convince my best friend who has a 35 year old that he's off the rails because i love him. He's my best friend's kid.

But there's no chance of using a dad voice there. I don't even have one there. So I've got to say what Rachel said. I've got to go, hey, man, I'm seeing this. I'm kind of worried about you. You know I love you. And I know you've been through a lot of pain with this last thing, and I'm just concerned.

Talk to me about it. And that's how I would do it if i was my friend's kid right i mean you got you got friends that have kids your kids age right yes yeah put one of their faces in your mind and it resets how you talk okay that's how i do it like a great plan that's how I do it because I don't have a footing to tell these grown people what to do. Now, I actually do because they work here and I can do it as their CEO, but I can't do that in their personal lives. I can only do it in their professional lives, right, because I tell other people here what to do because I'm their CEO. And so if you work here, that's part of the program, right?

But I don't get to do that with grown people that I'm in relationship with. And it's so dadgum frustrating because the reason it's frustrating is these are people you love that are doing stupid butt stuff. And it's one of the hardest things to watch people that are grownups and stupid is just not illegal. Oh, God, it drives me nuts. And some of you guys, when you call in, not this caller, but other callers, I'm trying to talk you off the ledge. And you're just like, you just keep doing stupid stuff. And I can't talk. It's so frustrating.

I can't make you do it with my dad voice. And so that's the only way I know how to go at this dude, is do it on a relationship persuasion basis. Make sure you don't activate the mom voice or the dad voice because you're going to activate his stubborn bone. He's going to bow up and it'll be over. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register.

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