The Ramsey Show - App - Buy Now, Pay Later Companies Are Preying On the Poor

Episode Date: April 7, 2022

George Kamel & Dr. John Delony discuss: Dealing with a loved one's estate planning details, Going out of state for grad school, Selling the house to pay off debt, The latest predatory Buy Now, Pay Later schemes. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life, your money, your mental health, your relationships, and so much more. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined today by Dr. John Deloney. Some call it the dream team, some call it the nightmare. You get to choose, America. This is your show. We're taking your calls, 888-825-5225. That is the number, 888-825-5225. Karen has decided to join us in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Karen, welcome to the show. Hello, nice to talk to you guys. You as well.

How can John and I help? Well, I'm 54. My husband's 58. We're in baby step number two. My mom fell a couple years ago and we moved into her house with her to help her. Ended up too much for us, so she went to assisted living. She's not doing very well. She will be passing here soon. The house is in my name, my brother and my sister's name. Mom and dad put it in our names decades ago. The house is paid off.

Like I said, we live here. My brother and sister are expecting us to buy it because we live here and we have always rented. So that's why we were the ones that moved in with mom when she got sick. The way the market is, my third would have been taken off the house. So I would only pay two-thirds of what the fair market value is. But I'm trying to pay off debt. I don't know if I should take the money for the house and just pay the debt down and look for a house because we wouldn't have anywhere to live. Or buy the house. Okay.

A couple of things here. First, exhale. Okay. Can you do just a big exhale? Yeah. So you've been living with your mom. Y'all made a family sacrifice. Yes. To the outside world. Y'all had a benefit too.. You'll have to pay rent for a few years. Anybody who's done what you did knows that is not a dollar for dollar trade because you have been watching your mom slowly decline and that takes your soul from you. So what you've been experiencing is hard

and now you're here up against the end and you're about to go through grief and you know it right so there's all this stuff going on here and one of the things we do when we are find ourself in a situation where we are out of control we have no control over what happens next is we start trying to grab for control and what you're doing right now is you're creating narratives and problems to solve that aren't today problems. Those are next month problems. Right now, I want you to be focused on honoring your mom in her last few days, in her last few moments. And then we're going to move into, okay, let's sit down with brother and sister and say, here's my financial situation. Can we rent for six months before we save this up? Or what is your expectation? How quick do we have? Let's put this all in writing

so that everybody's comfortable. And then we're going to make a plan to move forward. Okay. Is that fair? We'll walk you through the plan, the finances, but I want that to be, I know it's a pressing thing, but right now you're trying to figure out something to do

with that energy. And that energy is best spent sitting there holding your mom's hand and just breathing heavy and saying, this sucks, I hate this. I'm going to miss you. Yeah. Okay. So with your brother and sister,

the day after the funeral, are they going to say, where's our check? Where's our check? No, no. Okay. So do you have, uh, you're, you're, y'all are busting it through baby step two and George can walk you through all, all of the nuances there, the, how much do you make and all that. But ultimately, are you going to be able to afford to buy this house at some point soon?

Yes. We'll be able to make the payments. and and still work the baby steps okay all right i'll turn over to george yeah so what's your household income 90 okay and how much debt are we talking about 60 000 what kind of debt is it? A truck and a camper. Well, how do you feel about the truck and the camper? Could we get rid of them? Could we be debt-free by the end of this weekend? Husband would never go for it.

For both? He wouldn't even get rid of one of them? No. The husband is willing to consider moving out of a house that you're going to walk into with 33% equity on day one. Because he just loves this big boy camper and his big boy truck? Yeah, I guess. Did he play high school football? No. No, he didn't he grew up really poor and he i mean not that we're rich no that's for sure but does he care about paying this stuff off yeah he does why all of a sudden why at 58 does he care

yeah yeah i'm just wondering the urgency. I found you guys about six months ago. Yeah. Okay. And I would. If you sold them, would you have a net result there, positive? Is it worth more than the loans in this market? I don't know.

I don't know, I guess. So here's what I want you to do. I think so. I think it probably would be. I don't know, I guess. So here's what I want you to do. I think so. I think it probably would be. The camper's only a year old. My buddy just sold his camper that was four or five years old, and he ended up getting more money than he bought it for four or five years ago. I would, if I was you, I would sit down and run the numbers through Kelly Blue Book,

make a couple of phone calls, and just find out. If there's a chance that y'all could be debt-free today, which is going to allow you to go ahead and buy your mother's house and have a home, y'all can then have a 24-month plan to buy

a fancy camper and a truck back. Right? I mean, you're talking about this is a magic moment to flip the script. How much money do you guys have in cash and savings in your accounts? We have about 30 grand in the account right now. That's just in cash? 30,000. Why isn't that being applied towards the debt? The husband doesn't want to touch it. Okay.

So he's not on board with the plan. He's on board with his plan. Yeah. What do you guys have in retirement? About $30,000. $300,000. $300,000. Okay.

Well, I want you guys to be set up for the future. I'm worried about paying the house off. What's this house going to be worth? I'm not sure. The taxes say $185 is the appraisal, but fair market value, God knows, that's what my sister said she wants.

Well, I'm getting rid of this debt ASAP, and I want you guys to get in this house. That seems to be your biggest goal. It doesn't seem to be his biggest goal. And until it's y'all's goal collectively, none of this is going to happen. It's going to create relational issues, financial issues. And so we need a plan there. And then we need a plan with the siblings about what this is going to look like. What does this picture look like? How long do we have maybe to rent until we can actually save up enough to where this house isn't a burden, but it's a blessing.

So there's a real possibility with if you sit down and do the math and sit down and tell them, honey, I'm scared. I'm scared about losing my mama. I'm scared about us not having a house. And we're almost 60. We have a magic moment to clear this whole thing up. We're going to send you, I'm going to give you a year subscription to Ramsey Plus to watch all the FPU videos, but you have to watch them with your old man, with your husband. Y'all do this together, and you can change everything, starting right now. No matter what time of year it is, focusing on your family's financial plan is always a smart move. I get questions all the time about where to start and what to do first. One of the most crucial and affordable first steps to take is to protect your family and get term life insurance.

I know it's not glamorous, but all the other steps mean a lot less if something happens to you and your family has no financial protection. Getting term life insurance needs to be a top priority. I recommend 10 to 12 times your income and lock in rates for 15 to 20 years. This gives you plenty of time to get out of debt and build wealth. I've been recommending Zander Insurance for over 20 years and they understand and live this strategy and will take the time to help you find the most affordable term life rates. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. It's not that expensive, it's not complicated, and you need to do it now. You are listening to The Ramsey Show.

In case you didn't know, I'm George Campbell, joined today by Dr. John Deloney, and we are taking your calls, 888-825-5225. May is joining us up next. She's in Raleigh, North Carolina. May, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for picking my call. How are you doing today? Great.

How can we help? So I have a question which is more not really baby steps because we are financially free. Awesome. Incomes, I make about 70 and he makes close to 70 also. So let's say 148 here. Okay. Who is this? I am a nurse. My partner. Okay, cool. Yeah. So I'm currently a nurse in an ICU and I want to go to anesthesia school. However,

I cannot get over the idea of going to an Ivy League anesthesiologist, which is such a hassle to go through. Because I went to undergrad for free by merit, got scholarships all the way through, and then, like, applied for some on the way. So I came out with zero debt. Awesome. And when I met him, he had some debt, so he cleared the debt so that we could, you know, go forward and do stuff with our lives. But I'm at that point where I'm like, I really, really want to go to an Ivy League school. Do you want to go to an Ivy League school? Yeah.

So, Mae, I've spent my entire career working at universities. I even did a development program at Harvard. So I've been there. I love it. Tell me why you have that picture in your mind that you can't get out of your mind. I think so. I came as an immigrant and I think when I was coming in, I missed the opportunity to do that undergrad. And so, you know, I kind of like made the grace so that when I do decide to go back to school for the graduate level that I could be able to do that. But he is not buying the idea.

And it's like a secret desire. Well, so tell me, is your dream to be an extraordinary nurse, an anesthetist? Yes. Okay. And let's see, do you have plans to make your home and your family and to do life back in Raleigh? Yes. Okay. I plan to stay in the North Carolina area.

Okay. If you told me, I really want to be an anesthesia research scientist. I want to swan dive into the biochemical physiology of anesthesia. I want to know how the body responds. I want to be around the best scientists in the world. Then maybe, maybe, depending on the program, that type of capital outlay, paying that price would be worth it what you want to be is a great nurse who sits with people who are scared and you're calm you have a calming voice i could tell that you're kind and you care about people you want to go do good work on the lives of people

and so there are a whole bunch a whole bunch of relatively inexpensive, that's not true, they're expensive, but not as expensive, programs closer to your home. And here's the thing. As an immigrant to this country, you've been given a picture that is partially true. If you get this degree, it somehow completes you. It somehow proves that fill in the blank. if you get this degree, it somehow completes you. It somehow proves that fill in the blank,

that you should be here, that you've got value, that you're smart enough. And I want to tell you that's nonsense. Now, I'm also not going to be one of those guys that I see on YouTube and whatever. Ivy League schools are stupid. They're not. There's a lot of real smart people there. I've sat with them. Brilliant

people. Incredible resources. They're great. And I've also sat with some mind-bendingly extraordinary people at local community colleges. And especially at local state college and at private faith-based universities. I've sat with them all. And so

depending on what you do and why you want to do it, that's how I'm going to decide if that's the school for me. And what you want to do is serve and love people. And so I want you to do that with no debt. There are some killer colleges, by the way, in the Raleigh, North Carolina, in the research triangle. You know that. They're great.

You are worth getting through college and not having a bunch of debt, and you're worth getting a great education, and you can do that right where you are. Don't buy into the myth. We should not do it. And by the way, your husband called in and asked me to tell you this. I'm just kidding. He didn't at all. I'm just kidding. So, May, you're asking if you have the cash, is it okay to do it? Yeah, he wants us to buy a house. And I'm just like, but I really, really want to do this. No, no, it's $50,000. We could pay for 50 grand. Well, a house is an appreciating asset. You're going to live in that house. It's an appreciating asset. That student loan is a piece of paper that no one's going to ask you about until you have to weave it into the conversation very naturally. Well, and here's the thing.

A degree, a graduate degree to become a nurse anesthesiologist, I can even make an argument that that's an appreciating investment. Do it with cash. Do it with cash. And do it for the right reasons. That's exactly right. Do it with cash. Here's the thing.

If you sit down and say, hey, look, when I factor in what's going to cost us to cash out our $140,000 a year jobs to move to Cambridge for three years for this program, and you can put that together in cash, a year jobs and your current workplace will help pitch in for some tuition reimbursement to a college there in Raleigh, of which there are some great ones, and you're going to keep it going, do it. Just do it. You're worth more than an Ivy League certificate. You are freaking May from Raleigh, and you did it. And you're going to go make it happen. Love it.

Thanks for the call, May. I appreciate it. Deanna's up next in Tucson, Arizona. Deanna, welcome to the show. Hi, guys. How's it going? Great. How can we help?

Good. So my question today is my husband and I, we bought a house last June, and it's our first house that we bought. We started listening to the show back in January. Uh-oh. first house that we bought. We started listening to the show back in January. Our house value has gone up almost about like $100,000. So we're wondering if we should sell our house to pay off our debt and just rent temporarily. How much debt do you have?

We have about, well, we just paid off $2,000, so we have about $58,000 in debt. And it's student loan, credit card debt, personal loan, the whole nine yards. Okay. What's your household income? We make about $125,000 a year together. Okay, great. So what does your plan look like to get rid of this debt? How fast right now can you do it? So right now, based on our calculations, it's going to take us, we're considering getting second jobs right now, can you do it? So right now, based on our calculations, it's going to take us, we're considering getting second jobs right now, but based on our just regular, it's going to take

us about four years. Okay. I'm getting the second job and I'm going to get that cut down to two years. And if you can do that, I'm not selling the house. That's a big move. There's a lot of costs associated with it. You haven't been in there for two years, so there's going to be some capital gains tax. It's not as clean of a break as you think it is to just get rid of the debt and let's do this leapfrog shortcut. I'm not mad at selling a house to get out of debt and renting for a little while. It's very noble, and I love that sacrifice. But I think you guys can do this with $125,000 income and $58,000 in debt. We can clean this up in two years.

It may take getting a second job. It may take doing the monthly budget, really dialing that in, getting all of our expenses down to bare bones for a short period of time. Because here's the thing. Four years, it's a long slog for you guys to sacrifice. 24 months? Yeah. Okay. I can do a second job for 24 months.

Hey, will you do me a favor? Yeah. Okay, I can do a second job for 24 months. Hey, will you do me a favor? Take that nuclear energy that is currently pulsing in your chest, in your husband's chest, which is the regret and the, are we idiots? And I can't believe we did. Take that and don't run. Don't run from the problem. Go gazelle intense right into the middle of it. Okay?

Running from it is, okay, let's just sell our house and call it good and don't do that because that's not solving the problem. That's a band-aid. You're not going to change your behavior. I want you to grind it out for 24 months. You have a second job and probably a third hustle on the side of that.

At the end of 24 months, you and your husband will never borrow money again. Your kids won't borrow money. Their kids won't borrow money because y'all have bled and y'all sweat and y'all have argued over budgets and what's important to your family. And now you've got this beautiful house worth a whole bunch of money that's all yours. Great points there. The housing market is absolutely wild and everyone's going, we should sell right now.

But then you've got to go buy at the top of the market or rent at the top of the market and you're back to square one. So you've got to deal with the behaviors. Good reminders there. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. We're back with more of The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Dr. John Deloney. A lot of stuff going on out there in the world, and inflation is probably on your mind. And with inflation comes more ways

to get screwed, more ways to get scammed. And one of those now involves buy now, pay later. Here's an article, John, from Fox Business. Buy now, pay later, expanding to storefronts and gas pumps. That's right. So buy now, pay later has become increasingly popular in recent years, expected to reach $680 billion in transaction volume across the world by 2025. And as COVID has forced many consumers to shop online more, the use of Buy Now Pay Later obviously began to rise. So let's pay next month for last month's trip. That's what we're seeing. Buy Now, Pay Later provider Zip, formerly QuadPay, has a partnership with Chevron, allowing drivers to pay for their gas in four installment payments over a six-week span.

Wow. This is scary, John. Yeah, because you're still driving all those other times. You're paying for gas that happened three weeks ago, but you filled up twice since then, and so now you're paying for gas two weeks ago and a week ago, all to kick the can down the road. We're going to build quad pay some huge, shiny new buildings. Yep.

And their executives are going to be driving a bunch of fancy new Teslas because we find ourselves in this mess. And Klarna and Affirm and Afterpay, I mean, the list of companies just keeps on growing, people who are getting in on this. And what's hilarious, John, not so hilarious, not so fun fact, another article from Fox Business says this. More than a quarter of consumers can't afford their buy now, pay later payments. Of course not. That's right.

Because it's not magic. Debt Hammer survey found that 30% of respondents have struggled to make their buy now, pay later payments and have therefore had to skip paying a bill for essentials, utilities, rent, mortgage, car, to avoid defaulting. This is bad. If you can't pay for your four walls, but you're paying quad pay for your gas, you have a huge problem. And here's what I found, John. Klarna brags on their website.

This is hilarious. They brag to the retailers that consumers spend 45% more when you include a buy now, pay later service on your website. When under that $40 add to cart, it says 10 easy payments. Right. Four easy payments of $10 to pay for that $40 item. It's a more subversive predatory practice for people who are really desperate and struggling. And it's stealing from the least of these in our communities and it's taking capital out of low-income communities it's taking the

the hard i mean these people are working themselves to death in these hourly wage jobs and these type of companies they're like payday lenders except now it's much more sophisticated it's fancy and you don't have to have the shame of driving into a payday lender place and walk in with your head held low and sign away. You just got to push the button. When you mix all this debt with convenient payment methods and effortless, I mean, that's literally Apple Pay's tagline, cashless made effortless. They want it to be effortless. Think less about what you're doing. Feel it less. It makes me ill because this is one of those things that is just preying on folks who are hurting right now. And I hate it, hate it, hate it.

I hate it. And it doesn't – hey, there's a thing. I don't have – none of us do. We don't have magic solutions for the gas pump. We don't have magic solutions for inflation right now. We don't have magic solutions for inflation right now. I mean, that ship's out of the harbor right now. There's a couple of you've got to earn more or spend less or have some people in your life that are generous.

There's some hard decisions we all got to make. But this is predatory. But paying quad pay before your light bill, that's not okay. Don't do that. Find margin in your budget. I don't care what it takes. Stay away from these predatory lenders. Even though they're shiny

and they tell you that they want to create financial freedom, quote unquote, for everyone, that's what they're using. They're using language like we would use.

Create breathing room in your budget. If you are a person of means, if you're not a person stuck on the margins who's struggling, refuse to use these services because they're making their money on the backs of people

who are broke and who are hurting and who are left aside. Don't support this crap. I'm not going to get... It pisses me off, man, because it's those, like, I can go do this and I'll pay the bill next month and I'll go, wow, that was expensive, and I'll pay the bill the month after that.

They're not going to make any money off me. They're going to make money off those who can't. So let's don't support this thing, and it will implode on itself. And I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. These younger generations are the ones falling for it, and they see it like, well, it's better than a credit card.

Yeah. Buy now, pay later. It's better than a credit card. I'm making my payments. It's a more predatory credit card, I think. Yeah. Golly. Don't do it, people.

Avoid buy now, pay later at all costs. Hey, let me say this. If your company is based on stealing from hurting people, stop. Stop. Stop. That's it. I hope that worked. I hope After Pay goes, hey, John, we heard you on the Ramsey show.

It didn't. We're shutting it down. Not there as seniors because they're tight end. Somebody riding to work is going to get a clip, and they're going to know what they're doing is wrong. They're going to know what they're doing is wrong, and they're going to say, hey, at least I can't be a part of this. Yeah.

Go check out the fine print episode on Buy Now, Pay Later that we did. It was eye-opening. We shared some stories. We talked to experts. Go check it out. It's called Affirm Klarna Afterpay Should You Buy Now, Pay Later. Taha joins us in Birmingham. Taha, welcome to the show.

Yeah, hi. How are you? Great. How can we help? Actually, I wrote down some notes. Oh, very prepared. We appreciate that. Yeah, as a guy who's rarely prepared for anything,

I really appreciate somebody who's prepared. Thank you, thank you. So who's prepared. Thank you. Thank you. So I'm currently in high school. I'm 17 years old and always been a business guy. I always have business in my mind 24-7, honestly. Okay. What's your question?

So a lot of people actually around me keep telling me that this is almost like a unhealthy obsession. And I just wanted to know what you think about that. If you are thinking about business 24-7, 365, and you're not spending time with your loved ones, and you're not having fun, and you're not out working, and you're not working at a job where you've got purpose, then I think they're correct. It sounds like you're distracting yourself from something. Now, that's different. Well, I do actually have a job right now. Okay. Do you have joy in your life? Sure, sure.

Describe it to me. Well, it's more like, you know know since i'm still in school i don't really have a lot of options okay so it's more like i don't really mind what i'm doing but i feel like after i actually become an adult i'll be able to do things that i enjoy okay one of the most common myths that i i've spent my whole career sitting behind closed doors with leaders when the wheels have fallen off. And one of the most common myths is when I get X dollar amount, when I get X job title, when I get to be the head of X company, then I'm going to have a blast.

Then I'll start fill in the blank and that's simply false. It's not true. Now, I don't want to discourage you. I was single-minded about getting my PhD in education. That's all I thought about. It's all I read. It's all I did. I was a lunatic about it. And I worked in that field. And then when I was in the council, dude, I'm all, it's all I do. It's all I read. It's all I think about. It's the podcast I consume. It's my friends, right? So

I don't want to discourage your passion and you going all in, but I do have to make time for relationships and community and friends. I have to make time for but i do have to make time for relationships and community and friends i have to make time for laughter i have to make time for exercise and eating right and going to bed right and what i would tell you at 17 so here let me give you this analogy um some friends of mine i've spent most of my career in universities and i've made close friends with the the trainers the physical trainers for the athletic teams. And one of the things they told me over the last 5 to 15 years is they've seen a shift in the athletes coming in. And these are 18 and 19 and 20-year-old athletes that have joint disorders that are common in the elderly.

Because since the age of 5, they've been a pitcher. And they've gone to pitching camps, and they've gotten pitching coaches, and they don't play basketball, they don't kick soccer balls, they don't run around, they pitch, and they pitch, and they pitch. And by the time they're 19, their shoulders completely blown out. So why do I tell you that? Some of the great physiologists are now saying, hey, don't let your kid just play one sport all the way through. Make them play soccer too. Make them take jujitsu. Make them go to wrestling. Make them play the violin.

Do these other things. So I want you to be focused on business, and I want you to read fiction. I want you to go to a movie and see how your business looks in a script, like in an actual relationship. I want you to have friends. I want you to go laugh and enjoy your life. You have plenty of time to get that job and make a bunch of money and make a business, but make sure you live and breathe too. Bye. Our scripture of the day comes from 1 Timothy 1.5.

But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Antonin Scalia said, More important than your obligation to follow your conscience, or at least prior to it, is your obligation to form your conscience correctly. Good stuff. All right, Stacy's joining us up next. And it was Anthony Scalia.

Oh, well, it's all spelled wrong, John. I didn't know. There's multiple Scalia's out there you never know these days. There we go. Stacy joins us up next in Raleigh, North Carolina. Stacey, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you both for everything you do and for taking my call. Oh, it's our pleasure. Well, my husband and I are actually nearing retirement. We are working on five, six, and seven. Our baby is about to finish college, and we thought we were done with all that. Uh-oh. We are pounding out, paying off our house. That's

the only thing we have left. We have about two years, and we will be done with that. Great. We're doing everything else, and about four years ago, we got our, at that time, seven-month-old grandchild. And so now we still have our granddaughter. Do y'all have full custody? Yes. Yes, we do. Okay. All right. So we are flipping to a blank page and want to know, I want to know how to plan properly for her because we will be in our 70s when she graduates from high school.

If we're still living, I hope we are, but it changes the game plan, I guess, for me. And we feel like we're not on such of an emotional roller coaster anymore. My husband and I are on the same page, but the retirement doesn't look the same as what we had anticipated. So any advice? Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so the first thing that's important for you and your husband to do, okay, is going to sound counterintuitive, and you may have already done this, but I want you to go away for a weekend.

I want you to have one of your other kids or a babysitter keep your 4-year-old now. And I want you all to grieve what was. You all had a picture of retirement. You've been working really hard. Clearly some things you and I could talk for an hour, and you could tell me the whole back story here. But I want you to grieve what is going to be different now. We were going to get a lake house.

We were going to travel. We were going to get a lake house. We were going to travel. We were going to fill in the blank. And now we might do some of that, but it's going to look different because we're raising our granddaughter. We have another kid in the house. And here's why that's important. If you don't,

the tendency is to roll this fatigue and the natural, oh, what about this? It's going to roll into resentment. And this little four-year-old does not deserve that. So four-year-old has been through a lot and this isn't something you're going to do on purpose. This is just going to be you trying to get to the next day and the next day, the next day. And when you tell your body, when you sit down and grieve something and you say, we wanted it to be like this and it's not, then your body

goes, oh, you're driving. driving cool and now we can start making plans for what is this going to look like for us okay so i want y'all to own it and i want you to be mad be mad at your at your kid you can be frustrated at the situation get all of those feelings and put them on the table they're all real and they all have biochemical responses to them cortisol and adrenaline all kind of stuff and then you can be about, here's what comes next. What are we going to do next? And we're not going to try to reclaim what was. We're not going to try to patchwork this thing together.

You and your husband are going to create a whole new picture of what life's going to look like now. And by the way, my mom is 72. She's a gangster. She's a college professor. She's hilarious gangster. She's a college professor. She's hilarious. She flies all over the world. My dad is 71. He's just finished being a cop, and now he's a college professor.

He's goofy. You're going to be great, okay? You're going to be great. Think of this as an adventure, and how can we inject joy into this situation, not, well, it's just going to not be what it was. Do you hear what I'm saying? Right. And I know that's hard. That's why I want you to go

grieve this thing. I want you to go grieve it and sit in it and let this go. And then you've got the financial part that George can walk you through. He's got to set this thing up financially. It's going to be important that you get some women in your life who are 10 or 15 years younger than you that have young kids that will let your new child go on adventures with them and go visit with them and all these things,

right? So you're going to have to just get some help and you're going to have to get some support and you're going to have to be honest. Hey, I'm tired and I need a break this weekend. I need one of my other kids to step up or a friend or a babysitter. You're just going to have to be honest. Hey, I'm tired and I need a break this weekend. I need one of my other kids to step up or a friend or a babysitter. You're just going to have to do it differently and you're going to have to be honest about your limitations and you're just going to have to be intentional about it. Does that sound like a lot? I hear you getting quiet. I haven't watched replay in the last four years.

I know, I know, I know. Are you guys doing okay on the financial side in retirement? Do you have the money to raise her and also take care of yourselves? All of that, I mean, we are solid Ramsey people, I guess you could say. Is this little one, is she your son's child, daughter's child? Daughters. Okay. I may be way off, but often when I have this conversation, part of the angst, part of the heaviness,

is that somehow you think you screwed something up. That if you had. Oh, yeah. We've been all over that. I know you have. And you've got to set that brick down, stop carrying it. What you have done

is you've saved a little girl's life, and you're giving this little girl an opportunity to be with family and to have a wild, fun adventure with two wise people who might not be able to get in the go-karts, but we can take you and your friends there, right? Our hips and knees can't handle it, but, right?

And you've got to set the bricks of what did we do wrong down. Okay? And you've got to be about living. Yeah, I think a lot of it is we, I, I'm going to speak for me because my husband's not here. I still hold a lot of anger about the entire situation. I know. And that's why I want y'all to go get it out. Go sit, not get it out, but go grieve it, go own it, go sit with it. Otherwise it will eat you alive and it will end up in the heart of that little girl. Okay. Right. And I don't, I don't want that at all. I know. I know. I know. I know.

Yeah. Can I tell you, she's lucky to Can I tell you she's lucky to have you? She's so lucky to have you. Do we draw it up this way? No. But this little girl won the lottery with you and your husband. Y'all have been planning Dave's principles, but live in Dave's principles for not if, but when things go sideways. Things went sideways, and thank God y'all have been living this path for a moment just like this. This is why we do it, right?

This is why we do it. This is why we do it. Stacey, the fact that you guys are— So I guess what—yeah. Well, the fact that you follow these principles and you get to provide this kind of life for her, I mean, that's going to be a special thing. And I know right now it's hard to see that future, but I'm cheering you on as you guys continue this journey and you get to have a really

cool story. And it's not the one you chose, but it's the one you get to live. And I'm personally excited for all the upside here. I mean, thinking about having my amazing grandmother who still just celebrated her 90th birthday. We went to Boston and I love her to pieces and to be able to live with her and live that life with her be raised by her that's something really special and so you're going to start a 529 right you're going to get start saving from college you're going to go back back to following the principles here you're going to make sure that this little girl's got uh you know the four walls you'll have to take care of we're going to do all the stuff that you normally would do

it just happens to be with a four-year-old now right right and a lot of this is just creating a picture so do we slow down on our because i mean i've got it i wouldn't you're two years away right now you're two years away i wouldn't because not having a house payment at how old are you now 57 yeah not having a house payment before, how old are you now? 57. Yeah, not having a house payment before you're 60 is going to allow you to cash flow a lot of this stuff on the back end. You're fine.

That's what I would do. I'd finish the plan. You're almost there. You're almost there. I'm so proud of you, and I'm so grateful that people like you and hearts like you and your husbands exist in our communities

to take care of the little ones that run into messes that they didn't start. So grateful for you. It's going to be a wild adventure. It's all back. If you need anything, Stacey, we are here for you. Appreciate the call that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. My thanks to John Deloney, my co-host, all the folks in the booth and you, America, we'll be back with you before you know it. But in the meantime, make sure you're spending wisely, saving intentionally, and giving generously. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week?

A lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to ramseysolutions.com slash show.