The Ramsey Show - App - Can We Afford to Cash Flow College? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: Should you sell property to get out of debt more quickly? How to use an adoption tax credit, Cash-flowing college tuition, & Dave fact-checks Delony's Star Wars knowledge. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, best-selling author and host and author of the brand new book that is in pre-sale, Own Your Past, Change Your Future. He's my co-host today as we answer your questions about your relationships, your boundaries, your mental health, your work, your career, and your money. It's all right here. It's a free call.

Some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Steven starts off this hour in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, Steven. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve, man. What's up? I just wanted to run a question by you. My wife and I bought a residential lot a little over a year ago to build on and due to some how the building industry is going, the builder seemed like they wanted to get out of it. So lo and behold, we're in another house now and we've got that lot. She's got a little over 40,000 in student debt. so just didn't know if it's something we should rush to sell we've had it on the market but not too much interest should we lower the price to try to sell it and put that toward the debt quicker or just kind of

rat it out so you are trying to sell it the only question is how motivated you should be yes okay what's it on the market for uh for 20 right now what'd you pay for it we paid 11 and i put probably 3 500 into uh work on it before we terminated the contract what's the work uh just some excavation trees and you know okay getting it ready to so you got 15 you got 15 or so in it give or take right yes sir all right and you got on the market for 20 for how long a little over 150 days okay well this is a fairly hot real estate market. It hasn't sold. I guess you're not desperate. I don't need to give it away, but I'd probably drop it to something and try a little $1.99 psychology to see if we can get it to move. Have you got a bad realtor?

Well, I don't think so. I'm not sure, really. We've used it for a few things before and it seems to do a good job. But it may not be anything she's in a rush for just because the price because it's twenty thousand dollars if you didn't make anything yeah um you know you might i tell you what you might i would uh do a little shopping hit our elp our endorsed local provider for real estate in the area a couple of them and interview them just call them on the phone and just go hey i've got this lot it's been on the market. Pull it up on MLS.

Tell me what your thoughts are, why it hasn't sold. And you don't even have to – I'm not going to take up your time with a meeting, a phone call will work. And just take up a little bit of – gather a little intel about what's going on. Because, I mean, for somebody to call me up and say any piece of real estate has sat 150 days in this white-hot real estate market makes bells go off in my head. Something's wrong your price is way off or your realtor's lazy or this is a horrible piece of ground or i don't know that's what i'm wondering is it i mean i've seen people pay double but something was originally listed for did did your builder walk away because the ground is not good there's a slope to it it's uh we hadn't got it flat yet he walked away because work wasn't done yet and we spoke to some other

builders and their costs were above what we were willing to pay so so did you did you that's what term people did you buy a new house or are you renting right now and here's what i'm asking okay so you're you're done you're where you're going to be you're not going to build a house anymore well i'm dropping the price i'm dropping the price and i'm probably changing real estate agents yeah but i'm not dropping it to 14 now and i'm dropping it to 19 9 or 18 9 or something just try to give it a little refresh give it a little give give a little give a little a little little shock there and let's get it moving something like that um because it hadn't sold and i there's you know something wrong sounds weird yeah it's just everything everybody you talk to real estate's you know depending on

and mobile's no exception mobile's a hot market too so but i don't know where you are i don't know if you're out in the country somewhere or if it's bad topo on this thing. It's full of rock. I don't know where it is. I mean, I've got a lot or two that look like they're rock farm. I'm in Tennessee. It looks like we're going to have a good crop. We're going to have a good crop.

Spring, we're going to harvest those things. I'm just saying. I mean, wow. But, you know, sometimes you get into that, and the building cost to put a – you know, you're not exactly excavating. You're more like dynamiting to get ready. And that sometimes is what we get into, like in Tennessee. I doubt in Mobile, you're probably down on the coast, you probably not got that type of soil issue.

But you could be all kinds of different things like that. Sean's with us. Sean is in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hey, Sean, what's up? Hi there. My wife and I just adopted our little girl from India. Wow. Thanks.

And we have a question as far as where to put that adoption tax credit, what to use it with. And I had two ideas. We're on baby steps four, five, and six. So I was thinking about putting our traditional IRA to convert it to a Roth. There's about $65,000 in that, which would eat up that $14,300 credit. Or we would just adjust my withholding and put more in the house. Whew. and put more in the house. No, I would not convert stuff to Roth while you still have house debt. Okay. Because, in effect, you're borrowing on your house to do the conversion.

Right. Okay. So, yeah, I'm going to go ahead and make sure you got Baby Step 5. You got a good 529 going for the kiddo? We're doing that as well, yep. I mean, you could drop some money into that. Okay. Like heavy, like hit it hard. Because if you take a brand-new baby and drop five grand in there,

it's going to turn into a lot of money in 18 years. That's good. All right, well, thank you so much. So I might do some of that, maybe five there or ten there, and then the rest of it on the house. But, no, I'm not going to do the Roth conversion. I didn't realize the tax credit was so extensive. That must be, I don't know. It's new, yeah.

That's large. Yeah. I didn't think I was going to hear that number. I'm like you. Yeah. $14,000, huh? Somehow I had $3,500 in my head. That's what I was thinking too. I don't know what happened. Somewhere.

It may have something to do with the situation around the adoption. Sometimes that'll change things a little bit, but I don't know. You got me. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thanks for joining us. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Over the last 30 years, we've walked with tens of thousands, no, millions of families to help them overcome their financial stress. But there's all kinds of stress out there.

And that is what Dr. Deloney is addressing in his new book called Own Your Past, Change Your Future. It's available for pre-order. It's selling really good. It's good, man. Really good. It's like really exciting. It's like zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom Your Future. It's available for pre-order. It's selling really good. It's good, man. I'm excited. Really good. It's like really exciting. It's exciting.

It's like zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom. It's good. Yeah, this is great. And the book is all about changing your story. That's right. Changing what happened, owning what happened. You can't change what happened. Owning what happened and then deciding what am I going to do next.

You've got to reach a point you're not living in the past or what happened all the time, and let that be your definition. We don't often think we're living in the past, but our body sure does. It's syncing it all up together. You're playing the tapes over and over. There you go. There you go. Mental health matters.

You get a free month of one-on-one therapy with the folks over at Better Health. You get the audio book and the e-book all in the pre-order at $20 at ramsaysolutions.com. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a non-profit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org.

CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America, as we talk about your relationships, your mental health, your money, your career. It's all on the line right here. 888-825-5225. Mike is in Canada. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave, happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Sure, Dave. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Sure, man. What's up? So I recently doubled my income. I used to make $40,000 a year. Now I'm making $80,000 gross. Good for you.

And I'm starting to pay off my debt. And I had a question. So I know I'm currently in step two. I know you need to pay the's still a ball. You need to pay the smallest, the largest, regardless of interest. But I have a credit card with, like, an equal payment plan, so there's absolutely no interest on it, and it's just equalized. There's, like, a year and a half left in payments, about 18 months. So I was wondering, should I pay that off immediately?

It's only about two grand. But I also have, like, the second bigger loan is like a family loan for $6,000. So which one should I prioritize? Should I keep making the equal payments or should I just squash that debt out, the $2,000? Okay. You just told me you list your payments smallest to largest. You pay minimum payments on everything but the smallest. And you put all the money on the smallest until it's gone, regardless of interest.

You just told me that. Psychologically, it feels better to just pay off your siblings, because the six grand is a family loan. Are they in trouble? No, they're just nagging about it. I'm like, I just want to pay it off. Are you paying them payments as agreed no no you're not paying them anything i'm just gonna no it's just like okay

just pay it on lump i'm sorry do you just wanted to pay the lump sum do you have six grand to pay them on a lump sum uh no like like i'm i'm in maybe step two so all i have like in my pockets of like 1200 so no what was the loan for uh it's uh well i actually have two family loans it's for student deaths so i didn't really go through a bank or i just borrowed from family members so i've got 30 grand000 in total to both siblings. You have $30,000 or $3,000? I've got $6,000 for one sibling, $24,000 for the other. $30,000 in total.

And the $6,000 is the squeaky wheel? Yes. Okay. Well, you'll get to them when you get to them. Yeah. $2,000 first. Knock it out. All right them when you get to them. Yeah. Two grand's first. Knock it out. All right. And then get to the sibling.

Because I take it you're paying them no payments now, and when you finish off this credit card like this month, next month, you're going to start sending them, what, $2,000 a month or $1,000 a month? What are you going to send them? Well, they live in a different country, so because I'm a cheap bastard, I'm like, okay, I'll just save up and pay in the lump to avoid the wiring fees because she's in germany i'm in canada wiring fees are not that high yeah your avoidance here yeah i'm just avoiding it i guess yeah and here's what i do i'd sit down i'd call my sibling and say i'm sorry i've left you hanging here

here's what i'm gonna do do. Here's my plan. I'm going to pay you this much every month for this time, and then we're going to get done with this thing. The avoidance and the I'll just let it pile up. Yeah, if I was them, I'd be hassling you too, because it sounds like you're just avoiding it all. Make a plan with them as though they're a creditor, right? Yeah, and it's been a while. How long have you had this money?

About a year and a half now. Yeah, okay. And you didn't have good, clear terms and agreement on when you were going to pay it back or how you were going to pay it back. So they made up one scenario in their head. You made up another scenario in your head. And so now we're pissed about this scenario that doesn't even exist. So the best thing to do is get it off the books as fast as you can.

In the meantime, call. Now, how much can you put on debt with $80,000 a year? How much can you put on debt a month? If I, like, don't go out or don't do anything? Yeah, like what we tell you to do. Yes, don't go out. What would it be? I'll try not to.

No, you don't have to try not to. Don't do it. Didn't you watch Star Wars 1? There is no try. Just do it. How much? Sorry. How much? didn't you watch star wars one there is no try just do it so how much how much i can put down i will put down 25 until i pay off my debt so about that twenty five hundred dollars hey like okay so so that pays off the credit card this month next month you're going to send

twenty five hundred dollars the next month you're going to send twenty five hundred dollars the next month you're going to pay that sibling off. And if you call them and tell them or send them an email that that's what's going to occur, they're going to stop whining if you follow through on that. And, Mike, I'm going to change your life. Are you ready? Yes. Okay, listen to me.

This is the way you live. This is a microcosm of your life, and it stops today. You have almost fractured family relationships over a problem that could be solved in 90 days. That's ridiculous because you're circling around, and you're like, I don't know. Solve the problem in 90 days. Most of our health problems can be solved in 90 days.

A great number of our mental health challenges can be solved in 90 days. Relationships can be healed in 90 days. If someone will just go do it, I guess if I don't go out anymore, is that worth your sister? Get done with it, man. What dinner is worth your sister, right? Or who's to my friends? Get it paid off. And never, ever, ever not get something knocked out that's going to take 90 days of hard work

good grief okay that's it i'm done now good yeah i'm glad you feel i'm done now jeez but it's exactly right so star wars one was there is no try it was yoda it was yoda in one i think it was one or two i don't i don't know i'm looking looking at James. James, sorry, I'm not a Star Wars nerd. You're not a Star Wars geek? Oh. It's like he tells Luke to do this thing, and they're in a swamp, and he's like lifting the... Oh, man. We've said some things on this show that gets the hate mail and the cards and letters, but we're about to get a big time.

Yeah, now we got a whole... Two! I'm getting a vote for two. I'll try to lift it. I'm getting a vote for two from the lobby. He said there is going to try. I got a vote for two. All right to lift it i'm getting a vote for two from the from the lobby he said there is i gotta vote for two all right well but uh wars two yeah i'm because i'm thinking one didn't have that much pithiness in it um i could be wrong but it's um yeah i mean it's so old episode five if

you're a true nerd it was so old i was a teenager okay that's how old one is all right that's freaking old. You went to the theater in your covered wagon. Rocky Horror Picture Show and Star Wars were brand new. This is how old it was. Oh, man. So here's the thing. I think that brings up a good point, though.

Our mutual friend, James Clear, that wrote the book Atomic Habits, he talks about, and Craig Groeschel was talking about this, another friend, in his leadership podcast the other day. And he's speaking at the SMART conference in the fall, Craig is. But this idea that you have to be careful biblically and psychologically what comes out of your mouth. I'll try yep no you're not a person who is trying to quit smoking you're a person who used to smoke that's right that's a whole different set of phrasing activate your brain your spirit in a whole different way that's right i am getting out of debt and so during this time i'm going to list the debts smallest to largest i'm going to pay minimum payments on everything

but the little one i'm going to attack the little one with a vengeance i'm not going to see the inside of a restaurant during this period of time unless i'm working there as my extra job and i'm not going on vacation during this time there is no try that's exactly right you you i use you create a new identity i'm a person who used to struggle with money i don't anymore right i'm a steward of my money period yeah and that that is the frame with which i decide am i going to go out math used to intimidate me it doesn't anymore correct i'm a person i'm a person who does the math because it's causing me to win at my life and oh by the way the math is the fifth grade level needed to build wealth

you don't have to have a calculus degree to build wealth that's right you do not have to pass trigonometry or geometry you don't have to spell pythagorean theorem to become wealthy. All you've got to do is one. You don't even have to be really good at multiplication. Right. Just long division and addition and a little subtraction. It's not that hard. But what happens is our brains tell us this stuff over and over and over. I was the kid who struggled in math class so i'm not good at money

or so or your mom told you we're just not good at math in the in the ramsey family the ramsey family's not good at math or the ramsey family's always good at math and you took that on as an identity right this is an identity change that's what clear is talking about right and that's what craig's talking about you change your identity you go this is who i am i'm a joyful happy really good at math person i'm a guy that takes... Hey, I used to fight it. I gotta go work out. I gotta go work out. Nope. I'm a guy who takes care of my body. And that will result

in you working out. That's right. There's a cause you're here. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Paul and Kathy are with us. Hey, guys. How are you? Hey, Dave.

We're great. Welcome. Where do you guys live? Charlotte. Oh, welcome to Nashville. Cool. Glad to be here. Well, it's a fun drive over pretty time of

year to do that we flew we oh well that's even better just that okay all right good so how much debt have you two paid off well we had about 173 000 and how long did that take you took us five years and four months five years and four months And your range of income during that time? Started out around $105,000 and it's up about $150,000 right now. Cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a computer software consultant. And I take care of a couple of little girls. That's perfect.

I'm Danny. As it should be. Okay, good. So what kind of debt was the $173,000? We had about $9,000 left on old business debt. We had a house flipping business that my son and I started. We were trying to pay that off before we got into financial peace. And then $164,000 was on a mortgage.

Paid off your house! Yes! Looking at where people are! Woo! I love it. Way to go. That's so fun. Yeah.

Very cool. Congratulations. I'm about to retire, and we had a goal of getting us out of that mortgage before I retired. There you go. There you go. I'll be 65 in November. Changes everything. That's awesome.

How long have y'all been married? 38 years. 38 years. All right. Very good. Very good. He looks at her as he answers, and she wasn't years. 38 years. All right. Very good. Very good. He looks at her as he answers and she wasn't sure. That was great.

I like that. I like that score. Dude, that's... Yes. It seems like just yesterday. 22 minutes. Too late, Kathy. Too late.

22 minutes. 22 minutes. I love it. I love it. Way to go, you guys. Have you ever been debt free since you've been married

oh heck no no not until now although we did pay off a house back in 1999-2000 when I hit it big

with stock options then I got really stupid after that and that's when the flipping houses started yeah well you got cocky

took out an equity loan for 100 grand the house put it in the stock market did a bunch of crazy things. Oil wells. Oil wells. Oh, man, you did it all.

Just bring it on. Bought land in southern Colorado. Kathy can't remember how long they've been married, but she remembers what he did when he was stupid with his money. I like it. Yep. For all that pain. Well, way to go, you guys. All right, tell us your story.

What happened five years ago? Start this. So, Financial Peace University, I said to Kathy, I said, what I'm doing isn't going to work for our retirement. We've got to do something different. Please come to Financial Peace with me. And I kind of dragged her along that first day, that first night. I wonder why.

Another scheme. Another scheme, yes. And it was great. another scheme another scheme yes and you know it was great when we left that first night I was more pumped than he was

yeah sure and we cut up our 13 credit cards that first night wow well within a couple within a couple weeks

wow good for you yeah your wallet is thinner now you don't have to go to the chiropractor from your back being out of alignment

that's incredible. We've led FPU probably a half dozen times. Well, thank you. Thank you. At your local church? Yes. What's the church? We're Catholics. We're in a couple different parishes. Wonderful. St. Mark's in Huntersville. Very cool.

Well, thank you very, very much. We're honored to have you. Thank you. Very rewarding. We also got onto the Dave Ramsey website when we moved to Charlotte and looked up an endorsed local provider. Hooked up with this young guy, 27 years old at the time, Brian Wheeler. He really helped us. Helped us a lot. Let me tell you how cool his SmartRestorPro is. He came with him to do the debt-free screen.

How cool is that? That's a pretty cool financial advisor. It comes with you to do your debt-free screen. How cool is that? That's a pretty cool financial advisor. It comes with you to do your debt-free screen. Most of y'all's financial advisors won't return your phone calls. He comes from Charlotte to do the debt-free screen. He came with you. Bought us a beautiful steak dinner last night. Yep.

Wow. Great guy. Well, you're a success story, or one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Way to go, you guys. Yeah. So proud of you.

We're excited. So how does it feel to not have a mortgage? Yeah. It feels fantastic. Oh, man, what a great feeling that is. What does it feel like? It sounds like you got more than just your money back. It sounds like you, Kathy, you're talking about, oh, here's another scheme.

Here's another dog and pony show. That's what Sharon always said. She's always telling me, you're scheming and scamming. There you go. Right. But it sounds like you got trust back with one another. Tell us about that. Getting on the same page.

Yeah, being on the same page. And I really trust him now. I mean, in the years back, I would say, we're just not going to make it. But then we did. And we have you to thank, Dave. I mean, that first meeting just changed our lives. Yeah. And, you know, we were in our 50s, close to 60.

And we didn't know if we had enough time. Yeah. You know, a lot of the people that. Kind of scary. A lot of the people that attend attend fpu older people like us are can we actually do it yeah yeah paul where there's a will there's a way paul what would you tell the guy who is the casual listener to have a guy be 60 years old and say the trajectory i'm on is i'm going to crash this car i gotta do something different that takes a lot of humility to do that. And a lot of men in your situation, financial and otherwise, making good money, you've been ups and downs, don't have the courage to say that out loud.

What would you tell them? Just got to be true to yourself. You know, men put on facades all the time. You know, we've got egos and we don't like to be vulnerable. But when you're true to yourself you're vulnerable true to your wife let her let her know what's actually going on only good things can happen after that that's so good man oh that's touchdown yeah touchdown what is your um you're a brave good man it's awesome what was the hardest part of this for y'all? What do you think?

Doing the budget meeting. I'm the nerd. In the beginning. Oh, no. In the beginning. Yeah, I had spreadsheets, man. He still does. Oh, he's got bar graphs.

Oh, no. He's got bar graphs. Check that out. This is an Excel guy that knows how all the buttons work, right? Oh, great. Man, that's got bar graphs. Oh, yeah. He's got bar graphs. Check that out. This is an Excel guy that knows how all the buttons work, right? Oh, great. Man, that's great. Yeah. That's good. Well, you know, we're so honored that we get to be part of your story because you've got an incredible story.

I'm so proud of you. Very, very well done. When you're teaching the class and somebody's sitting there, what do you tell them the main thing they have to do if they want to get out of debt is what i tell them is the budget is super critical you know you got to make sure that you're every dollar has a name like what you said and uh you got to get on the same page with your spouse i mean so many of them just only one couple one of the couple comes and it's so hard to do it with it when that's the way it works. You've got to get on the same page. Budget helps.

And just be honest with yourselves. Try to set goals together. That's really key. That's powerful. A lot of wisdom. So what are you going to do now, man? Well, I'm going to retire at the end of this year, and we're going to do a lot of traveling. Have you had that first paycheck deposit where you don't have a mortgage payment?

Oh, yeah. We made the last payment in August. So tell the listener what that feels like when that check deposits and it's all yours. I tell you, it is so freeing. It is so freeing to know that you don't owe a dime to anybody else. And unless you get stupid, it's going to be that way for the rest of your life. I won't let him be stupid again. No, there'll be duct tape involved.

I'm going to kill him this time. You two are awesome. We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. How ordinary people built extraordinary wealth. How you can too. I'm sure you're there or almost there already. It's definitely the next chapter in your story. Congratulations. We're so

proud of you. Copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give away and start up a ruckus with somebody else and get them started. Thank you for leading Financial Peace and for going through it. We're so honored to talk to you guys. You're amazing. Can I say just one thing? I just want to tell you that your phrase, it's not good enough, that was the best thing for me.

We've used it several times. Yes. Several times. It's not good enough. That's powerful. Yeah. The old negotiating lesson. I haven't heard that line.

Back in the day. It's a negotiating phrase. Yes. Oh, okay. It's a buyer beware lesson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a couple of versions back, yeah. The last car we bought was $75, $100 bills in my pocket.

That's not good enough. And I got it at $500 on your list. I like it. All right, Paul and Kathy, count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! House and everything!

Those are weird people! Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Aaron is with us in Kansas City. Hi, Aaron. How are you? Good. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. Hey, I got a question. So I have a daughter that's getting ready to start college next year

and a son that's going to be a sophomore in high school. I just want your advice. We don't have debt except for our house, but, you know, we've been blessed. Last couple of years, our pay has increased, you know, quite a bit more than like two years ago, but we weren't disciplined enough to really save much for college. Um, I don't want my kids going into debt. Right. And my question is, you know,

since we've had, you know, a bump in our income, should I attack their college tuition like it's debt? You know what I mean? Like she's getting ready to enroll next year where I don't have to take out any loan or anything like that because I don't want to do that. What's your suggestion? What is your household income? We're right around $200,000.

Okay. Well, yes, you can cash flow this college. It is based on a couple of things, and you're going to have to do it with a plan, unlike how you got here, right? So one of the things we know for sure, the biggest element on being able to cash flow college is college choice. Right. Debt-free college is college choice right debt-free college is college choice when you choose a college when you choose a bentley on the car lot and you have a chevrolet budget you're about to go in debt right and so you are not on the bentley lot my man you're broke you're broke with a good income so this young lady is going to a wonderful state university

with in-state tuition. Yeah, that's what we're doing. Yeah, and maybe even a community college for the first two years to get her some of the basics out of the way. Or maybe even both, right? She can do. Yeah, she will have about a year going into it, and we are going to state school.

Okay. Okay. Going to live at home? Actually, she'll be about two hours away. Okay. Going to Kansas then? Yeah. Yes, sir. Okay.

All right. Yeah. Well, I got a Jayhawk in my family, so that's all right. Well, it's a Wildcat. Oh, oh, oh, you're going that way. Okay. Kansas State. Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, we don't, you know, like I said, we don't have any debt. Now it's just, I was trying to look at this as, like, gazelle intensity. Well, now, how much is Kansas State a year? Have you looked it up? Yeah, you know, she'll get some scholarship. So with everything around $22,000. No, no, it's not $22,000 tuition. No, room and board.

You're talking about tuition. Yeah, room and board. Yeah, I'm asking tuition. How much is the tuition? Oh, yeah, $9,500. Okay. All right. That sounds right.

And so $22,000, if that all goes in, that's $2,000 a month out of a $200,000 income, $24,000 a year. Yes, sir. And you can cash flow that out of a thing. And that does not even require gazelle intensity. That just requires a budget item. You just have $2,000 a month for college in your budget. And I want to warn you two things. One is be very diligent about the actual costs not well yeah you know and you'll

get that fast food sheet that says here's what our estimated cost and watch every dollar just like you do in your home budget because it can balloon on you and set up have hard conversations with your daughter about she has to work for spending money or she has to work for laundry money or whatever those things are. Have very firm conversations. And remember this, there's an entire industry based on parent guilt when it comes to college choice.

Yeah. And it's like Dave said, except they get a bunch of cool, attractive young people who will take young people to the Bentley lot and then talk about and drive them around and give them a great experience.

And then they'll send the kid back to mom and dad and say, mom, if you loved me, you'd get me this car, right? And you guys screwed up and didn't handle your business right. This is the car I should be driving. This is what everyone's going to drive to get to where we're going to go.

I need you to know that you're being preyed upon. Don't fall victim to that. KSU is a great college. Your kid can do great things from that school. But go in with a firm plan and don't buy into any of that guilt nonsense, okay? So we're watching stuff like the cafeteria plan. Yeah. What's it cost?

What's it entail? And, oh, by the way, if we're going to get the one where you eat there all the time, you're going to eat there all the time, kiddo. And have a hard conversation. I had this with a buddy of mine recently who's a physician whose kid was about, you know, almost going to lose a scholarship. Have the conversation now. If you lose your scholarships, you will come home.

You will go to community college. Have all that now so it's not drama later on down the road. So everybody's clear, right? And that lack of clarity is what got you here in the first place. So let's do something different this time. Real detailed plan. We'll send you a copy of the book, that free degree, that will show you how to walk through it. And I recommend you sit down with your teen and your spouse and watch Borrowed Future tonight. Yes.

It's the documentary that we did on student loan debt and how epic, out of control, stupid it is. And several hundred thousand people have viewed it. You can watch it on Google Play or Apple TV or on Amazon Prime. Easy enough. You can just rent it for the next, like, three bucks, whatever the documentaries are right now, $3.99, whatever it is. And so you can watch it. John is featured in it as one of the people.

And it'll scare the bejesus out of you about student loan debt and cause you to really focus on this plan. And so, yes, you can cash flow this, but it's all about choices. It's all about choices. And it's all about choosing it's all about choices and it's all about choosing to be a grown-up we are not paying for a degree in beer pong you are going there to study pass your dadgum classes show up to class there's an amazing correlation between people who show up to class and those that pass yeah it's really strong amazing correlation those who follow the syllabus

that graduate in four years because you it's all strong. Amazing correlation. Those that follow the syllabus that graduate in four years. Because it's all laid out. Yeah. And the classes are all available for you to graduate in four years. They're all right there. Nobody tricks you. You just have to go checkbox, checkbox, checkbox, checkbox. You are managing a project.

And this project is four years long, and this is what we're going to do. And, well, that doesn't sound very fun. This ain't about fun, darling. This is about getting your education. Yep. If you want if you want fun join a country club go to the fair um this is not this is not about fun go to the fair because it's suddenly 1808 right you know kids go to universal i don't care but um hey kids go to the fair kids, go to the fair. Let's go to the fair. Let's play. Let's take the cow and have a judge. They do have funnel cakes in the little goldfish toss. 1808.

1808. You have been to the fair, and you were not even thought of in 1808. I love the fair, man. All right, then shut up. I saw Merle Haggard at the fair. I love it. Leave me alone. Funnel cakes.

I saw Merle Haggard at the fair. I did. I saw Merle Haggard at the Home Depot, but that doesn't mean anything. All right, so that's the thing. It's all about choice. John has a Ph.D. in higher ed, so he actually knows how to answer these questions, and that's one of the reasons he was interviewed. He was actually interviewed before his Ramsey personality for that documentary,

and that documentary is blown up it is causing a holy ruckus there are some people in higher ed not happy with ramsey because we kind of told the truth about what a screw job some of this is and certainly the people that sally may and navient don't like us because we expose their misbehavior we also call congress a bunch of fools but we've been doing that for 20 years so so that ain't nothing new. They don't care. I think it's good to point out like this father here. Yeah. You will pay for it at some point. You'll pay for it by when they're young and you're putting money away for college

or you're going to not be able to pay your house off and babysit six because you're going to cash flow college if that's what you choose to do. But it's going to cost you at one end of the spectrum or the other. So if you can, plan for it ahead of time. It's kind of like Christmas. Every year people are surprised. Oh, gosh, I didn't see it for Christmas. Like they move it.

You're right. Your kid's going to turn 18. Have a plan. Start having that conversation. It's going to happen. And, you know, we had the conversation about a lot of things, like where you're going to go to school. Well, you just want to go because you went there.

No, it's not because I went there. I mean, you can go to another in-state school if you want for that one yeah but i mean any of them that are in-state i'll pay for it but um but you know in-state tuition but you know one of them thought they were going to go across the county line down here into another state and it's fourteen thousand dollars more a year i'm like who's paying for that they're like well uh so what's no's just, they're both a school. You're going to the one up here that's cheaper. This is not a hard conversation here. Gee, this is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host

of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.