The Ramsey Show - App - Can You Have Work/Life Balance in Baby Step 2?

Episode Date: May 12, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: How to use extra money, Achieving work/life balance when paying off debt, Avoiding making an idol of money, How to think about prenups heading toward marriage. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, number one best-selling author of the book Own Your Past, Change Your Future, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today as we talk to you and help you with building wealth, doing work that you love, and creating actual amazing relationships. The phones are open. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Christian starts off this hour in New Jersey. Hi, Christian.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Mr. Ramsey and Mr. Deloney. How are you guys today? Better than we deserve. What's up? I'm happy to hear. I've been a listener to the Ramsey Show since I was in my early 20s, and I appreciate your advice.

So I'm calling because I recently got my master's degree, and I'm going to be starting a new job. For the first time ever, I'm going to have extra money at the end of the month once my building savings are taken care of. Good for you. What's your master's in? Thank you. It's in biology with a concentration in ecology and evolution.

Wonderful. What are you going to be doing? I'm going to be an environmental scientist. Oh, ding, ding. What's your income going to be? $55K. All right. Good for you. Way to go. I love it. So you have this trouble now. You just got too much money. Well, I'm going to have more money once I start my job than I've ever had before.

And I was wondering how I can best utilize this money to financially secure my future. It's my understanding that I'm supposed to put 15% of my pay into retirement savings. I'm unsure if that is before and after taxes. And also I'm an avid saver. However, I feel as though I'm just saving to watch my bank account grow right and i wanted to ask how can i intentionally take action to ensure that i'm financially prepared for my future you you are truly a scientist incredible i love it i love it very process driven you're going to be so wealthy oh Oh, good for you. All right, so you have no debt, I take it.

Technically, no. Well, what's technically mean? Well, sir, my parents were very, very kind. They bought a car for me when I was in grad school. The loan is under my name, but they're taking care of the payments. Nope. Nope. If it's your car and you're responsible for the debt you

have debt we need to clear that up okay mom and dad being in debt on your behalf is not cool so how much do you owe on your car it's approximately seven thousand good deal well you're going to knock that out first then you're going to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses then you're going to save 15 of your of three to six months of expenses, then you're going to save 15% of your income. And if you want to save beyond that, I would say you're probably saving for your first house. Would you agree with that? Okay. Would you agree with that?

Sure. I never thought that I could be able to afford a house, but that's a good call. You have a master's degree. Why couldn't you get a house? Of course you're going to be able to get a house. What did your parents do for a living? Well, my father, he worked for the USPS. Okay.

And my mother works at an adult care center for adults with disabilities. So you have two parents who worked really hard, but they didn't make a ton of money. Is that right? Yes. Okay. I come from a very similar situation. Dad's a police officer. Mom was staying at home.

It was tough. And Dave has given me an incredible gift. And the gift is this idea of ratios, which is I have been so scared of money my whole life, waiting for the next shoe to drop that I'm somebody that like you likes to watch the account grow just because it makes me feel safer and it's an illusion and so it's this idea of what does safe feel like and it's this ratio so you're making more money probably than both your parents combined have made and you're going to enjoy some

of that you're going to spend some that you're going to save some of that and whichever one of those categories is the one that feels the most awkward to you, then you're going to have to be disciplined in that category. And it sounds strange to say you're going to have to have discipline in enjoying your life. But that's one thing that you struggle with because you've been fighting or fleeing your whole life, right? Yes. Yeah. So you're here. You did it. And so now what you're going to do is you're going to say, I have to go out with friends once a month or twice a month. And I got to spend money on something like on a new something. I'm going to do is you're going to say, I have to go out with friends once a month or twice a month. And I've got to spend money on something, like on a new something.

I'm going to have to build that in. It's like federal law. If you score a touchdown, you must do a touchdown dance. I mean, it's that. If you're making some money, you have to enjoy part of it. Enjoy giving part of it. And enjoy saving part of it. I took a call on my show the other day.

Someone said, I can't give. How do I do that? I said, you practice. Put it on your thing and make part of it. I took a call on my show the other day. Someone said that I can't give. How do I do that? I said, you practice. Put it on your thing and make yourself do it. Right? Absolutely. And watch people's body language. But whatever one of those things, some people spend too much and don't save, you've got

to practice it. You've got to make that a discipline. Yeah, you're not going to have to practice savings. That one's going to come to you easy. Right, right. And so on. So, all right, James is with us. James is in Phoenix.

Hi, James. How are you? I'm better than I deserve, Dave. How are you the same sir how can we help awesome just had a question for you guys i felt a little double-minded in this financial journey kind of like foot on the gas and then feeling like not having enough family time and so then swinging to the other end of things and um yeah just really not wanting to go for it in life um some of these financial sacrifices at the sacrifice of family and you know that emotional connection with family so just wondering even just practical tips on how you can make that happen you you know, in my industry.

Well, here's the thing. If you did the stuff, if you did the intense thing where you're sacrificing your family for an extended period of time, you'd be sacrificing your family. When you do it for a short period of time in a sprint called gazelle intensity, like a year or two years, and you're busting it for a short period of time, you're not sacrificing your family. You're sacrificing for your family, because your kids are going to have a completely different life because you got up off the freaking couch and were watching Netflix in the name of family time and went and did something instead. So the gazelle intensity thing usually doesn't last 18 to 24 months

because you're out of debt. How much debt have you got, not counting your house? We're almost out of debt. How much debt have you got, not counting your house? We're almost out of debt. We just have a few grand of medical bills that are somewhat pending, and then we build the emergency fund. So where is it that you're going to be in tents for so long then? I guess maybe not even the baby steps, but just the idea of building for the future sometimes is a sacrifice. Yes.

Basically, I just want to make sure I'm not sacrificing family at the expense of just building a happy future. How many hours would you be working while you're doing this? To build the emergency fund? No, to do what you're talking about where you're losing your family. I'm confused. You're working a 40-hour week? What? Yeah, I think

my wife and I were both quality time people, so we feel, you know, the stress if we hit like 50 hours a week. We just are feeling it in the household. Let me tell you this. If you are with your family and you owe a bunch of money and you're not safe, you will be in the physical proximity of your family, but you will not be with them.

And your kids will feel that tension, that frustration, and they will think it's their fault. The greatest gift you can give your kids is to set them up on a safe foundation. And if you owe somebody money, you're not safe. I would set your life up where it runs perfectly after baby step three on 40 or 50 hours a week.

Yeah. And if you're doing that, that's the way we teach. That's moving from intensity to intentionality. And you're going to be just fine if you max out at 50 a week. That's fine. No problem. Nobody around here is telling you to work 80 a week after you hit baby step three. I just saw a study that really made me sad.

It showed that families owning life insurance in the U.S. was at its lowest point since the 1970s. After what we've been through the past few years, I'm just lost on how people don't make this more of a priority. How are you going to make sure your family needs are met if something happens to you? This is why getting term life is an absolute necessity. Rates have never been cheaper and the whole process to apply is pretty simple with many companies not even requiring an exam anymore. This is why I send you to Zander Insurance and I have for almost 25 years. They'll make sure you get the right protection at the lowest cost possible and they're there for you and your

family every day. I challenge all of you to make sure your families are protected. It needs to be a top priority. Call Zander at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com. That's 800-356-4282 or zander.com. The Building Wealth Live Tour is in full swing. We were in Las Vegas last week with almost 3,000 folks. We are going to be next Thursday, one week from today, in Orlando, May 19th. And we've got over 3,000 there. That event is within 100 tickets of selling out.

If you want to come, I would suggest you get on the website, Orlando, today. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash events, and you can get a four-pack for $60 or single tickets at $25. That's a way you and some friends can take some friends. All of our events have the $25 or four-pack starting at $60. Orlando is $60. Phoenix, Arizona will be there September the 13th. Sacramento, November the 1st. Minneapolis, November the 10th.

San Antonio, November the 15th. It's Rachel Cruz, George Camel, me, Dr. John Deloney, and, of course, Ken Coleman. And we'll be there talking about how to build real wealth in a world that's lost its ever-loving on things going on out there. So it's going to be a lot of fun. It's an evening event. We would love to have you. All of these are, I think, Thursday, maybe that 13th of the september might be a tuesday but they're all like that kind of a night out for you your spouse your friends or your whatever you want to do again a four packs beginning at 60 check it all out at

ramsey solutions.com slash events our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey and you can get the best deal today's question comes from nathan in mississippi nathan writes how can i stop worshiping money i'm currently on baby step 3b and throughout these years of grinding away to build my savings, I found myself so focused on the goal that it's becoming all-consuming. I work as a truck driver, and I work anywhere from 13 to 15 hours a night.

I'm tired and I'm burnt out. Recently, I feel God is telling me to slow down and go at His pace. How can I still attack this thing without feeling like I'm putting the money before everything else? Whenever I think of the word worship, Dave, I think of fear. Think of in awe of. And like we just talked with the last caller here, I spent years worshiping money because it was something I was scared of. Whether it was the scarcity, I didn't know how it worked.

I didn't know how all these stock markets were going up and down and my neighbor's houses were worth whatever. And so it took over. And when I got some insight about it and some knowledge about it and some people around me that could coach me through it, it lost its power because I got some, I had a relationship. I learned more about it.

I wasn't scared of it anymore. And I think about worshiping God and I think there's an awe and a reverence and a, I don't want to say like a destructive fear, but a healthy relational fear there. What do you think about that? I think that's accurate. The thing is, you step to the side of any item that becomes an idol, and you set it in its proper place in your mind and in your spiritual walk in your life and you say okay this is an item it is a tool money is really of no value except for what it can do it's it makes a lousy god it makes a lousy master. Yep. And also makes a lousy slave even. So, you know, you want to control the money, not it control you.

And there's a difference. You know, Larry Burkett used to say the only difference in saving and hoarding is your attitude. It's not an amount. It's not a process. It's not a level of intentionality. It's not a level of diligence. Both are very diligent, savers, investors, and hoarders. It's just your process. It's not a level of intentionality. It's not a level of diligence. Both are very diligent savers, investors, and hoarders. It's just your attitude about it.

It's what are you trying to get from it, not what are you doing, and not the amount and not how many years you've been doing or something like that. So I'm very intentional with money. I actually always have been, even before I went broke. I've always been intentional. But I am a manager of it since I went broke. Before that, I was more of a worshiper of it. I thought it was going to bring me happiness.

I thought if you think it's going to be your provider, then you've given it too much power. And then you can set it to the side. But the fact that you've been working hard and hitting some goals and you want to slow down, that's not a worshiping issue. That's just a realization that I'm at baby step 3B, which is where we tell people to move from intensity to intentionality like the last caller. Yeah, and you have to do that. You have to change your identity, right? Your identity was one of running and crushing and getting this thing done. And now you're moving to one of intentionality, right place, now what are we going to do moving forward i'm not a sprinter

i'm a marathoner there you go i changed my name yeah and uh i used to be a sprinter because i had to do that i had to run the cheetah was chasing me so i had to run and and now i can just calm down and and i don't have to work seven days a week, 15 hours a night. And God is telling you to slow down. I think that probably was God. But worshiping money you can do when you don't have any, when you have a lot, when you're in the middle of it, when you've gotten to the other side of it. You can worship at any time. That's a position of the heart.

It's not a position of the money or a baby step or anything like that. And, you know, that does say – so here's the thing. It's not a position of the money or a baby step or anything like that. And, you know, that does say, so here's the thing. Again, I think it's a good, both of these questions are somewhat parallel. And so it's really important for you folks out there to hear, I am all about, we at Ramsey are all about you going absolutely crazy and I don't care how hard you work I don't care if you're working 40 hours a day for a short period of time to get your freaking mess cleaned up you spent four years five years nine years making a mess you are not going to

clean that up in nine days you are going to have to roll up your sleeves and sacrifice and hurt. There's going to be pain involved, discomfort, inconvenience. I'm not going to see my baby. Your baby's asleep while you're working. You need to get your butt in gear and clean up your mess for the sake of your family. That type of stuff is gazelle intensity, we call it, is for baby steps one through three and is generally somewhere in the 18 to 24 month range. I don't ask people to do that for five years. It's very unusual.

Sometimes you have to, but it's very unusual. Most of the time, it's one month to 24 months and you are done. Once you get out of debt everything but your house and you have your emergency fund in place, we suggest at Ramsey that you take your foot off the gas, back it off a little bit, go into by the way, is going to be a better quality of time because you don't have this debt hanging over you and you're not preoccupied with MasterCard calling your phone while you're trying to play with your kids. And I also think it's important that for the last caller too, there are seasons of every single job when these are 60 or 70 hour a week months, right? And that's just part of life.

And I think the challenge that most have is they don't know how to have that conversation at home with their spouse with their kids um and i'm thinking back to before the before we went through this book season like sheila and i sat down on the calendar and said here's what this is going to look like now and she's all in got it and then here's what it's going to look like when my foot comes off the gas right and we can reconnect and then this so i think it's about being intentional about it like you mentioned it it's about being intentional but you can't be scared of hard work man in the name of if i miss this in the name of nurture if i miss this one game then i'm the terrible dad and i'm

the worst and all that kind of stuff but don't set your life up where you miss them all right the rest of your life absolutely yes because you're so freaking broke you can't breathe that's right you know so get the mess straightened up and sometimes it's just to hit a goal. Sometimes it's just to do some stuff. Like tomorrow, for the next three days, Sharon and I have Rachel's kids. And we won't be doing anything except Rachel's kids for three days. The next Thursday, I will leave here early in the morning and end up in Orlando, and I will have lunches and dinners and events and building wealth, and then we have Entree Leadership Summit that begins on Sunday.

I'm speaking at a church on Sunday morning, and for the next seven days after that, I'm probably going to do 80 hours, and I don't even have to work. But I'm doing that to hit some goals, but there's an ebb and flow to this. And that's scheduled. I'm emotionally prepared, and it's not forever. It's for seven whole days. He's not going to kill old Dave. He's not going to whine about it.

But I'm going to hit some serious goals during that time, and our team is going to hit some serious goals during that time, and I'm leading the charge. The front of the horse with the sword pointed forward, you know? And, hey, game on. But I'm not doing the 80 hours a week anymore, seven days a week, for, you know, months on end. It's a whole week.

For this, right? I did a long time ago. For this, right? And my kids all survived it. Barely. This is the ramsey show Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. This is the Ramsey Show in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Donnie and Lauren are with us. Welcome, guys.

Thank you for having us. So good to have you. Where do you live? Bakersfield, California. Ah, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off? $108,000. Good for you.

And how long did that take? 13 months. All right. And your range of income during that time? During that time, we were at $106,000 and we bumped it up to about $148,000. Whoa, nice jump. All right. And what kind of debt was the $108,000? Man, we were normal people. We had credit cards. We had a solar loan, student loan, trailer loan. Furniture. And a furniture loan too. who were those people

normal people just everything there wasn't a debt you couldn't like man yeah well zero percent come on yeah it's free yeah i love it okay so how long you guys been married going on eight years okay what what happened 13 months ago well you know our journey kind of went back further than that when i decided to take out sixty thousand dollars in student loans man i had no way to figure out how we're going to pay for this or how i was going to pay for this and it was just a burden that i carried sixty thousand dollars and fast forwarding it to you know our marriage i carry that forward in and uh i was i was embarrassed by it so um and we also accrued additional debt like we said you know we were living like normal people um but uh through that time i was always just trying to figure out how

can we pay off all this mess that i and we created? And so I was listening to your podcast, your YouTube show. I was watching it and listening to it on my way to work, talking about it, trying to get her on board. Even so much that the church that we attend at, Canyon Hills Assembly of God in Bakersfield, California, they asked me to lead a financial peace course a couple of years ago. Yeah. And so that's kind of where our journey began.

Yeah. So when Donnie first taught financial peace in January of 2020, right before the pandemic. Of course. We were on a single income and I wasn't able to attend every class. And in particular, I missed session two, which I feel like is the one you need to hear. But so when he started getting excited about the classes he was teaching and what he was learning, I wasn't on board. I felt like, you know, I'm, we're already on a tight budget. We're, how can we possibly cut anything more back? I just, I squashed him down and I knew it wasn't

right, but it, it just didn't seem like something feasible. Well, fast forward to July of 2020, I picked up a part-time from home social media content creation job, and that was our first taste of, wow, we've got a little chunk of money. This is exciting. We could save it, and we didn't really have the right mentality yet. And then five months from there, I picked up a second part-time job. It was another opportunity just the Lord gave to me. And doing HR work, which was my prior experience.

So now I've replaced about two-thirds of my income. It's very exciting. But we were still ish. We still believed in our Costco credit card, earning those points. And we weren't following a budget. We were overspending. So when the pandemic started kind of easing up a little bit, it was time to coordinate again in January of 2021. And so I attended and I saw session two of FPU and it was everything for me. It changed how I

saw debt. It changed. It's not something that should be a part of you. That's normal that, you know, everybody has it. It's something to get mad at. It's something to realize this is taking your future. This is taking your legacy. And I, I was ready to just be all in. Correct. So that night we went home and had a heart-heart conversation. And that night we decided we are not going to live like normal people anymore. We are going to change the course of our lives and our kids' lives. And we were all in. We were all in. And so we dove right into it and started working the steps. Yeah. We cut up the credit card. We set up our financial snowball. We started taking out the little ones and it was so exciting. We paid off the credit card, paid off the furniture, paid off the trailer, and we're

like feeling invincible. And I'm like, what else can I do? I'm going to get a third job. Let's do this. So I picked up a third job. Yeah. All while raising two kids and staying home, full-time mom. Yeah. Hours were crazy. Late nights, early mornings. It was so worth it because the fire was there. I finally got it. And I finally realized why one spouse can't just do this. You have to have both on board. Yeah, even if he's teaching Financial Peace University.

Yep. Yes, exactly. Did I miss that part of the story? No, but you actually have to attend it, too. For a whole year, he's been teaching it. And you're standing over here with your arms crossed going, no way. Donnie, what were you thinking? I mean, you had to be going, ah. You know, I was patient.

I made a lot of mistakes, too. I mean, I love to spend. But she was patient. We were praying, and the Lord spoke to you. Yeah, and so once I finally got on board and we're taking care of this. Oh, it's game on. It was everything. But that was a long year for him teaching Financial Peace University.

Meanwhile, we're using the Costco credit card. It was my fault. I'm like, we're fine. And, you know, when we did the numbers, we were overspending by something like $400 a month, you know, all for a $700 check at the, you know, one time a year or something crazy. It was like, this math does not work. It's all about the math. And, you know, it's hard to, it's hard to get there. And you just have to really look at yourself and realize.

That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. So when we, when we finally got to the student loan, the car market, the used car market was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. So when we, uh, when we finally got to the student loan, the car market, the used car market was pretty good. Yeah. And so during that time, um, we, we have a, we had a 2016, uh, Toyota 4Runner and we were already, you know, paying off debt. But then at this point we're like, what can we do to accelerate, um, paying off the student loan? So we decided to sell our car and I took it to the dealership

and they offered us just a couple thousand dollars less than I paid for brand new. And so we went down and I put a big chunk down to the student loan and a little bit of that money. We bought a used high mileage car. We call it my Dave Ramsey car. And at that point, we only had $18,000 left. And, man, we were just thinking, what else can we sell? I mean, we were looking around the house. What can we do? We were so close.

And then, man, we were looking to the side of the house, and we're like, why not the trailer? So, I mean, even though we just bought it, we decided $18,000 left on the student loan. Let's just go ahead and sell it. So do you wish you still had the trailer? No. Did I wish? Yeah. No.

I mean, is that a good trade you made? Yes, it was. It was 100% worth it. Correct. And, you know, even just the trade of knowing if we really want another one, which we do, we're going to save cash for it down the road and it's going to be okay. Correct. And so, you know, once we decided to sell the trailer, you know, we, that Monday, we went down and paid off my student, our student loan, and we became debt free in February

of 2022. Awesome, man. It was awesome. That's amazing. Well done, you guys. It's a great journey. Thank you. And another big motivator was

you know his company is being sold and so we really looked at each other and we thought we have to get an emergency plan going we don't know what our future is going to be what are we willing to do and we were willing to do anything yeah and because of your guys's teachings you know um i'm not stressed and worried about it you know it, it's in God's hands. We're okay. Our kids are okay. We're doing fine, you know. That's so cool. Good for you guys. Gosh, that's awesome.

So proud of y'all. Well done. Thank you. Very well done. We've got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That's the next chapter in your story for sure. And we're also going to give you a gift card for financial peace in every dollar, the Ramsey Plus subscription for a year.

Since you're a coordinator, you'll be able to give that away, I'm sure, to find somebody that needs that help. And same thing with the Total Money Makeover book. You'll have an extra one of those as well to give away and pay it forward. So we'll step into your generosity step here. Thank you. Good stuff. Good stuff, you guys.

Well done. All right. It's Donnie and Lauren from Bakersfield, California. $108,000 paid off in 13 months, making Bakersfield, California. $108,000 paid off in 13 months, making $106,000 to $148,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Yep. 3, 2, 1.

We're debt-free! Yeah! Whatever it takes. Love it. Bust it. Whatever it takes. it Bust it Whatever it takes Sell it Sell it This is the Ramsey Show We'll be right back. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jane's in Phoenix. Hi, Jane. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Jane. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, what's up? Awesome. Long time listener. First time caller. Well, thank you. Yes. So anyway, my question is

I'm 36 years old. I'm engaged. Yay. Thank you. It took us a long time to find each other. Anyway, I have always, since I was a little kid, like money equals security for me. And I've actually completed all of those baby steps before I even knew who Dave Ramsey was. was and so i just want to tell you like that's like a huge part of you know what kind of makes me whole as bad as that nice might sound but the ultimate goal is you know financial freedom um you know i don't you know i don't make money to go buy gucci purses and stuff like that and i'm betting the guy that you're marrying is not a saving tightwad like you.

That is correct. Opposites attract, I've heard. That is also true. You know, he's the best man. He treats me so well. He loves me so much. It's just that we had different upbringings when it came to finances. And so I asked him to sign a prenup because I have built a little bit of a nest egg for myself. What is a little bit of a nest egg? A million dollars. Okay. And he has nothing?

Yep, exactly. That's fair. He's got his car. Yeah, he's got his car. Now, the good thing is he was in some toxic relationships in the past, and he has, you know, become a better version of himself, and he's learned from these toxic relationships, you know, trying to impress women with stuff, right? How old is he? 42. Okay. Been married before? He was married in his 20s, but no kids. What about you?

Nope, never married, no kids. All right, cool. And so I asked him to sign a prenup because, you know, finances are my security, and it would be very detrimental to me if something didn't work out, and I lost half of that. So he has been really cool and he understands that just by knowing. What's your question? The question is, how do I, Dave, how do I deal with like someone that is not on the same financial, you know, level as me, not level in terms of income,

because he could make that in his what he does for work he could make that up but like how do i how do i control my anxiety of like right now i'll let i'll let john address that let me back up about three steps and i want to i want to hit i want to hit two things and then i want him to step into the relationship part of this too. Number one, I do agree, and I rarely agree, but in your case the difference is so extreme, and when there's an extreme difference of a million dollars or more, I do recommend a prenup.

So I do agree with the prenup i don't agree with why you did it okay you did it trying to protect where you feel like security comes from mistake because security doesn't come from money i mean it gives you some security it gives you some sense of peace but you're placing more on it than you should, and you actually said that, right? Right. Okay. So I don't want you doing this to protect this from him. I just think it's general wisdom because the differences are so extreme.

And I'll even go a step further. The reason that I used to tell people never do a prenup, but the reason I started doing where the differences are extreme is not you and him but it's your wacky relatives and they go well he married a millionaire so i'm gonna jump in here and i got a whole agenda now and here comes crazy eddie the cousin right and something and and he he's got a nice barrier now he goes i got a prenup i can. So, you know, you can kind of rule crazy Eddie out at Thanksgiving dinner. And so it shuts down the weirdness around these differences. But what you're identifying that John and I can both speak to is that you have to get on the same page prior to marriage about how we're going to handle money.

He's never going to be as extreme as you to handle money he's never going to be as extreme as you are and you're never going to be as loose as he is but you've got to get each other and you got to get closer together than you are now because you're going to tear each other's eyes out otherwise here i'm going to i'm going to be real honest with you is that cool yeah yeah please i feel like you have a part of you that you want to stay yours. And you want to build a brick wall around it because this is mine. And then the rest of me, I'm going to marry out. You can't do that.

That's not how your marriage is going to end up. He's not going to ever fully have you. Now, I'm not saying he has access to a million dollars in a checking account. I'll follow Dave's financial wisdom there. What I'm saying is you have told him, I don't find security in you. I don't find security in our marriage. I don't find security in the same theology. I find security in this bank account that you can't touch.

Now let's get married and go make a life together. So it's a sentiment. It's a moving forward. So I wouldn't start the conversation with him. We, I handle money better than you. You never have. I would start the conversation like this. We are about to sign up for forever with each other. And I'm only doing this once. Here's what I need. Having us on the same page with a budget makes me feel safe. It makes me feel heard and it makes me be able to sleep at night. And he's going to say, having you spend some money for us to go dancing and go laugh a little bit and go on vacation makes me feel seen and heard. And you can go cool. I'm all in and he can go cool. I'm all

in. And he's going to have to learn some new tools that he doesn't have. So you're gonna have to be patient with them and curious and practice. And you's going to have to learn some new tools that he doesn't have. So you're going to have to be patient with him and curious and practice. And you don't know how to cut loose and spend some money and go dancing. And he's going to teach you how to do that. That's the beauty of this thing moving forward. If you both make it a point to meet each other's needs the best you can. You hear what I'm saying? Yeah.

This is a core issue. And then I guess the other kind of question i have john and dave is like um i've never had to support someone and right now he just recently switched jobs and it takes a while to kind of build up your book of business and um right now i'm paying rent and i'm also giving him extra cash i have when i get married yeah right you don't give people cash you're not married yeah okay he he doesn't he is not making anything right now and he needs to go do door dash yeah he's got some more lines he did he did get the sign up for uber so i don't know the process of that but he like he can make money tonight money tonight. Go door knocking. He's got to figure that out.

And you, when you get married, it's y'all's money. You're not paying his rent. It's y'all's money. Yeah. And one day, you might lose your job, and he's working. You're not supporting anyone when you're married. It's ours. It's ours.

Right, right. Well, I am supporting him right now. You don't need to be. Stop giving me anxiety. Yeah yeah that should give you anxiety and if this is if he's if he's giving you a if he's giving you a precursor of what's to come and you can't sleep at night don't marry this person or at least have some hard conversations with a marriage therapist really quick like premarital counseling yeah yeah yeah we we do have a counselor that that we talk to so that's yeah you've got to get this to where he um is demonstrating that he can stand on his own

and uh because that's going to freak you every time that's going to freak you out and it's going to freak you out more than everybody else it will freak out anybody but it's going to freak you out even more because of the way you're wired right i mean you've got to be kind of like weighing like waking up at 2 30 in the morning going right now right yeah did you wake did you wake up funny i mean did you did you grow up financially insecure uh not insecure but my dad and mom like they uh you know there was some um cheating that happened so as a young kid, I was like, that's it. I'm going to provide for myself. So at the age of eight, I started saving my money.

So let me tell you this. That's trauma. And I want you to go to a counselor by yourself. And I want you to tell them, I need to learn how to accept connection in my life and stop relying on this imaginary pot of money. It's not imaginary. The pot's real.

Safety's imaginary. I want to learn how to find security in relationships, and I've never been able to do that, and I need to learn those skills. That's your new assignment moving forward. Yeah, and don't give people money, too, that you're not married to. He needs to go work extra,

and he should want to. He should be crazed about it. Yes. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.