The Ramsey Show - App - Capitalism Is Like a Weed - You Can't Kill It! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 23, 2020

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Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Deloney joins me this hour answering your questions on relationship IQ. We've got questions about relationships, kids, parents, spouses, toxic work environments, fear, anxiety. John's here, and we'll take your financial questions as well.

We always weave them together. Open phones, 888-825-5225. There is a lot of uncertainty right now, and many of you are wondering what things are going to look like on the other side. Chris Hogan and I will be doing something tonight for the first time ever, a free Financial Peace live virtual event this is an event we did in uh the fall in charleston south carolina and the uh the the production values are amazing so we thought hey let's just we've never before made this completely free we're just going to put it up as a service tonight april the 23rd 7 p.m central time 8 p.m eastern

just go to daveramsey.com and you can watch chris and i and it's fun and funny and tone deaf because it was shot last fall so don't expect us to have some kind of wonderful thing to say about the coronavirus we didn't know there was one uh but you're going to learn and it's uh you know the seven baby steps you're going to walk through them in a couple of hours there uh you will be entertained you will be edutained and um check it out it's completely free tonight at daveramsey.com if you want to set up an event reminder just text virtual to 33 7 8 9 that's virtual to 33 7 8 9 and spoiler alert uh burrows going to cincinnati bangles you don't even have to watch the draft just turn it off you're going to get better for your for your life and your soul watching this thing you got inside information going to the bangles guys that ship has sailed

and otherwise it's online. It's like a glorified fantasy football draft, which is embarrassing for grown people to be participating in. Anyway, watch FPU Live. It's going to be good for your soul. You know, I'm okay if you just channel surf back and forth. Doesn't bother me a bit. I mean...

I like an evening of Hogan. Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's good for you. That's great. that's so fun uh well the economy is starting to reopen legally and illegally uh there are haircut speakeasies opening up uh illegal haircuts being given in backyards and so forth there are illegal uh other things happening out there uh because here's what happens capitalism is like a weed you cannot kill it it will pop up you push it down one place it will pop up somewhere else it you know you can't stop it from happening and capitalism is what

happens if you leave people alone or if you don't leave them alone i'll never forget walking through the street on the streets of moscow and we're visiting russia which you always read about russia russia russia russia mother russia you know and you think of communism and all this stuff there's so much capitalism on the streets of moscow it's unbelievable the guy walks up with a coat and he's got the watches in the coat like it's a movie. I'm like, dude, did you see this on a movie? You can't keep these people from making money, man. Everything's black market because that's the only market there is.

And there's a whole bunch of people doing that right now. So, yeah, you just think that everybody's going to be closed down they're not they're going to find a way um yeah there's an old rage against the machine quote that said hungry people will not stay hungry for long that's exactly right open phones at 888-825-5225 starting this hour off is marlene in ari Arizona hey Marlene how are you doing good how are you guys good how can we help so I have a question me and my fiancee have been working the baby steps really set in September we paid off 26,000 worth of student loans within that income time we made about 39 and we've just been so intense and we just don't know how to

kind of back away from the baby steps in a sense and kind of just focus on our relationship versus just making money making money that's a deep one um i'm confused as to why those two things are in conflict because i feel like most of our conversations kind of revolve about money and our money goals and they don't revolve so much about like other aspects of life. Okay. I've got a rant brewing. Can I? Yeah.

Can I have one for a second? Yeah. Marlene, so here's, this is not at you. You are the brave one. And so I'm high-fiving you. Where are you calling from? You're calling from Colorado? No, you're calling from Arizona.

So I'm high-fiving you. Here's the thing. So in the fall before corona, American Medical Association posted the numbers that showed for the third year in a row, the life expectancy in the United States had gone down again. And what they labeled these as were this great phrase that was both really insightful and bone chilling. They call them diseases of despair, which is an increase in suicide, an increase in addiction, but an increase in organ system diseases like heart disease and liver issues. And when you drill down even further, these were diseases of disconnection. And so you've given us a great metaphor

here on the dave ramsey show about following these steps where these these we get so goal focused and so obsessed with this that like dave was just asking we we knock everything out that's important and we just look at this one thing forgetting that by the time you get there if you don't get there with the people that you started the journey with, what's the point, right? These are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they should bring you closer together as you make this journey together, right? Yeah. I mean, I think from not an intensity standpoint or not a setting your goals aside standpoint, but instead just saying number of minutes of conversation.

We're going to limit the number of minutes of conversation about this we're going to talk about it all the time in other words which is what you're saying the big gripe is i think and that's a valid gripe by the way um which makes it not a gripe i guess but anyway it's um valid frustration valid frustration yeah so uh uh you know i in other words i think you could still do exactly the same stuff with your money and just talk about it less yes and communication communication is not connection and so you've got to set boundaries around when you guys are transmitting information which is what'd you spend on this have we paid paid this bill? That's communication. Let me give you a metaphor, an example, okay, in my life. Rachel Cruz is a Ramsey personality.

My son, Daniel, is one of our SVPs and runs a big section of Financial Peace University. My daughter, Denise, runs our family foundation. So when we're having a family dinner, we easily could end up talking Ramsey Solutions stuff through the whole thing. And we have a family rule. You can't talk about work without permission. So Rachel will raise her hand like she's in fourth grade and get permission to talk about something at the office. And then once we finish that subject, it's back off limits again. So we talk about other stuff than the office because ramsey solutions for the ramseys is a

big deal it's all consuming and if you're not careful it will take up all the space that's right and so we had to draw that boundary and so you can say on tuesday night since our date night we're not talking about this crap nope and we're going to put it on the calendar we're going to put intimacy on the calendar we're going to put connection on the calendar and we're going to make it a priority good question marlene ilene. I like it. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If you do this one simple thing that we all do, you are literally at risk of being hacked and someone stealing what you've worked so hard for. Do you ever use public Wi-Fi?

I'm talking about getting online at a coffee shop, a store, the airport, or even at home. Hackers can use a simple $100 device to mimic Wi-Fi, and with just a little bit of skills, they can take over your financial life. This means you may think you're on your bank's site or app or securely making that purchase online, but hackers could see and steal that information. Think you're on your bank's site or app or securely making that purchase online. But hackers could see and steal that information. That's why I trust CyberGhost VPN.

CyberGhost thinks about cybercrime so you don't have to. You can try it for free for seven days. Protect up to seven internet devices and keep all of your internet connections secure. That's CyberGhost VPN. Download it today from your app store and be secure in seconds. so many people in so many different situations in america right now different things to be afraid of different things to be glad about different family scenarios i'm single and i'm at home alone i've got three kids and I'm trying to not kill them because I'm stuck in the house with them. There's all kinds of different issues out there. People worried about the economy. People worried about the virus. People afraid

and fearful. One of America's top pastors, a good friend of this show, good friend of ours personally, Max Licato got in touch with me. He said, Dave, he's been doing a lot of messages like we have on Hope and a lot of great stuff on Instagram and other places. I've been seeing the messages pop up, and I thought it'd be a good idea to just talk to pastor max lakedo max how are you my friend you know i'm actually doing pretty good dave um we're we're in san antonio and like everybody else we're just looking around trying to figure out what in the world is going on i'm in the church office today and typically the place is auzz. You can barely have a conversation, and now I'm up here all by my lonesome. Every time you turn around, it's something you've never experienced before.

We've got about all but about 30 of our folks are working from home this week and have for several weeks now, and the building is, this big old empty building is a little bit eerie. It's almost like a movie when you walk through it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's how I feel. You know, I was yesterday, no, it doesn't matter when, two or three days ago, though, I was in our church sanctuary, and it just made my heart sad.

You know, we've got a beautiful sanctuary, and it's been, what, a month or longer? I can't remember. It just seems like forever since that we had that just happy sound of people coming in and singing and worshiping, and it made me really long for this to be passed. I was with a group of pastors the other day, just spent a little bit of time encouraging them, and they all had some great jokes. One of them said, and just like that, we're all televangelists. That's the truth. All right, brother, so tell us.

Give us a message of hope tell us what you're thinking well you know there uh there is a beautiful story i was just reading it yesterday in mark chapter four the story you know there's several storm stories in the bible and in one of them in particular uh jesus is in the boat the disciples, and they're crossing the Sea of Galilee. And the passage begins with Jesus saying, let us go to the other side. And he declares, we're going to go to the other side. And then the storm hits, and it's so severe that water's getting in the boat. The disciples are afraid they're going to sink. And remember, a lot of those guys were fishermen, so they knew a storm when they saw one.

And in this particular instance, they turn and they look for Jesus, and he's sound asleep. He's sound asleep. I remember reading a commentary on this story years ago, and the fellow wrote, while the waves were roaring, Jesus was snoring. Who would have thought? And so the reason I share that story now is because the disciples, when they saw Jesus was asleep, they woke him up, and they said, don't you care? Don't you care that we're about to perish? Now, I don't know if a more fear-laden statement could be made. You know, fear, Dave, makes us misinterpret the actions of God and even question his character.

And I bet there's people listening who are saying, God, don't you care that I've lost my job? Don't you care I've lost my retirement account? Don't you care what we're going through? And fear does that to us. It causes us to question the character of God. But Christ was not perturbed. He stood up and he rebuked. I love that he rebuked the waves and the wind.

He just spoke and the wind was calm and the sea was calm. And I believe that Christ is going to speak to this pandemic. He always has. He always will. And we will reenter a season of calm. But in the meantime, we're learning not just about life among ourselves, but we're learning who God is. And we got to be careful and not interpret this season as a time to think that uh you know that god has checked out the fact of the matter is he said to us what what he said to the disciples we will get to the other side we're going there now i don't know how he's going to bring this to an end and to be honest dave i don't know we may may end up in the presence of God through all this.

I don't know. But I know he'll get us through it. And we've got to hang on to our promise that Jesus said he's always with us and he'll get us through it. I was doing a podcast with a pastor friend yesterday, and he asked me a question. And I hadn't even thought about this because i don't think that way my doctrine my my belief of doctrine uh isn't around this and he said what is god saying through the coronavirus and i kind of thought man is he saying god brought this now and i said well number one i don't think god's saying anything through the coronavirus except

i love you and i'm gonna hold you all the way through it. But, you know, it's not like, you know, a call to repentance or something like that. I don't do that hellfire and brimstone toxic kind of theology in my house anyway. And so, I mean, are you getting questions like that from people? Like, is God punishing us or those kinds of questions? You know, surprisingly not. And I kind of thought that I'd get more inquiries like that, Dave. Most people, they're just saying, I need some strength.

I'm afraid. I am afraid. And they just need to know that our God is a good God. And I encourage us in a time like this to quarry the character of God. Look what the Bible says about God, that God is fair and he's kind and he's always been honest with us. He never said we wouldn't have problems, just the opposite. He said, in this world, you will have problems. You'll have tribulations, but don't be upset because I've overcome the world.

And so what I hear people saying is, how can I manage my anxiety? How can I manage my fear? Because, man, there's nothing worse than that cesspool of fear and anxiety. And so that's what I sense people are asking a lot. How do I deal with anxiety? I know that sales of medications to treat anxiety, I read yesterday, are up like 30 percent. So there's a strong level of fear out there. And your book, Anxious for Nothing, sales are probably up, huh? Well, they are.

They are. I bet. Can I just give a word to those who are anxious? First of all, don't beat yourself up. Don't beat yourself up. Everybody is scared out of this. But don't let yourself stay in a place of anxiety. You know, I always say when anxiety knocks at the door, just send Christ to answer it. And for

heaven's sake, don't invite anxiety in for dinner because during times of anxiety, Dave, you know, this more than anybody, we just make stupid decisions. You know, we don't think clearly. And so pray specifically about what you're facing. Be careful about what you're allowing to come into your brain. Meditate on good things, not negative things. And seek help. You know, reach out to the Dave Ramseys of the world or reach out to a counselor. Call a pastor. We're all going

through this. And even Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane prayed so fervently that the sweat drops appeared as blood. And that's anxiety. So don't beat yourself up for being anxious, but do what Jesus did. Cry out for help. Bring friends to pray with you, and you'll get through it. Max Licato, thanks for hanging out with us, brother. We love you. Anytime, Dave. All the best to you. Be good.

Pastor Max Licato, this is The Dave Ramsey Show. Business leaders hiring right now may be the furthest thing from your mind, but the fact of the matter is we will recover. One of the smartest things you can do for your business is to be prepared. I want you to know that my friends at LinkedIn are ready to help you find the right people for your business when you're ready to hire them. LinkedIn Jobs matches your role with qualified candidates so you can find the right person quickly. LinkedIn Jobs looks at things like collaboration, creativity, adaptability, and puts your job post in front of qualified candidates every day.

So your job is seen by people looking for jobs just like yours. That's why we use LinkedIn jobs when we hire here at Ramsey. When the time comes to hire for your business, you can get $50 off your first job post at linkedin.com slash Ramsey. That's linkedin.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. We appreciate teachers at Ramsey. We love teachers. Teachers change the world. I had a professor from the University of Tennessee where I graduated from get in touch with us yesterday,

leading one of the investment classes, and they've got two more days of class, and they're all on Zoom. And it's not a guy I had met before, but he called in and talked to our publicity folks, and I ended up jumping on a Zoom call with this investment class. Oh, that's fun. That was fun. Anthony O'Neill jumped on because he does all the college stuff too, but talking to those guys. Of course, they're doing very sophisticated, senior-level investment classes, stuff that I don't fool with much.

They're over my head. But I jumped in, and we had some fun interrupting their class and telling them they're going to be okay and that kind of stuff. Because we love teachers. A teacher that would, I mean, think about a professor that would do something like that when you're in college. That was the cool professor. Oh, man.

Yeah. You know, who gets Dave Ramsey into your Zoom class? I mean, you know, a cool professor does that, right? At least that's my opinion. Yeah. So, you know, the teachers that bring it, man, they're the ones. And some of you that are forced into homeschooling right now against your will are really appreciating teachers right now. It's Financial Literacy Month around here.

And Jackson Charitable Foundation comes alongside us, partners with us, to put our foundations and Personal Finance class in many, many hundreds of schools across America. And they are helping us with our Teacher Appreciation Giveaway, sponsoring it. Teachers, go to DaveRamsey.com slash teacher. Enter for a chance to win one of two $5,000 cash grand prizes. The giveaway ends next week, the end of April. So you just got a little bit more time, but no purchase necessary, of course. DaveRamsey.com slash teacher. Enter your name, teachers.

We salute you. We love you. We appreciate you. And I hope you win the $5,000. There's two shots at it. And thanks to Jackson Charitable Foundation for doing that. And thanks to the folks in our Ed Solutions team, the Foundations in Personal Finance curriculum

that's in about 48% of the high schools in America right now. I'm pretty proud of that. Pretty cool. I want to get it up to about 98% and then I'll be okay. Probably won't ever get that other 2%, but I'd like to get it in about 98%. Been working a long time to get it to 48%. And times are good. Christopher is with us. Christopher is

in Florida. Hi, Christopher. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, man. What's up? Well, okay. So I'm actually calling on behalf of a friend of mine. I got a good friend of mine who's a physician who I introduced your baby steps to that wanted to call you and ask a question, but he's been working like a dog constantly.

So I told him I'd do him a favor and call and ask for him. Okay. He's on baby step four and has a question about it and retirement savings contribution. You know, being a physician at the clinic he works at, he has a 401k where they match only 3%. He was told that even though his clinic matches at the 3%, that he can contribute up to $19,500 to that 401k. He has a traditional IRA, too, that he's putting some stuff in. He's not sure, because of his income, how much he's allowed to contribute to, he's not sure because of his income how much he's allowed to contribute to that 401K in the IRA.

I know that you normally suggest 15% between a 401K and a Roth. There's no income limits on a 401K. There's no income limits on the 401K. So he can load that up, 19.5. I would recommend he make the 401K Roth if they have that as an option. The only thing that can come up on a 401K is if a bunch of the other employees are not putting money in, there's a thing called the highly compensated people will be reduced how much they can put in, and he would probably be in the highly compensated group.

And so if none of the nurses or secretaries or accounting people are doing the 401k and only the three doctors in the clinic are, this limits how much they can put in. That's called a highly compensated rule. But as long as he's not bumping into that, there's no limit. It's not based on his income. So load that 401k up, put it in Roth, and regardless of his income, he can do two Roth IRAs. If he makes over $200,000 household income, adjusted gross income, he can do a backdoor Roth IRA, which is what I do. I make over $200,000.

And a backdoor Roth is where you open an after-tax traditional IRA, which is a weird IRA, okay? Usually an IRA, a traditional is before tax. So you do an after tax traditional and 20 seconds later roll it to a Roth, and there's no taxes on it. There's no tax savings because you're not doing it before tax. You're doing it after tax, and now you're doing it after tax, which a Roth is after tax anyway. And so you open it as an after tax and then roll it to a Roth,

and that's called a backdoor Roth IRA, and I do one of those for me and one for my wife every year, and I load up my 19.5 at my 401K here at the office, and since I own the place, it's a Roth. Definitely have Roth available here. The matching portion of the 401k cannot be Roth by regulation. It is traditional. Once a year, he can roll that to Roth.

And so in December, where I match myself, I roll that to Roth each year. That's nice of you, Dave. Yeah, it's good that I get to match myself. That's nice of you. Oh, brother. Yeah, it's like I wear two hats. I'm the employee and the employer of both at the same time. So very weird stuff.

Megan is with us. Megan's in Colorado. Hey, Megan, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can John Deloney and I help? I had a quick question.

My husband and I are both active duty military, and it's going to go step by step. We both have the GI Bill to pass on to our kids. Good. But we don't have the full GI Bill because we both use different masters. So my husband has 27 months to give to my son, and I have about 23 months to give to my daughter. So the question that we have now is that we're very good well-intentioned, and we're trying to figure out should we do a high-key line. But based on our numbers, we do think that we could cash flow it as well

at that time when they get to school. Yeah, I probably would put some in the 529. Because you've got some GI Bill available, you don't have to be quite as intentional about or intense about it. But I probably am going to do some. You're not going to regret having too much money saved for college. Okay. I've never had anybody complain about that. You know, like, Dave, I overdid it. You know, that's never come up in 30 years of doing this. So I think you're going to be fine.

And thank you for your service. I'm glad the GI Bill's there to help you and your family. Alex is with us. Alex is, well, maybe Alex is not with us. Did I do it right? Let me try it again. No, there's something Did I do it right? Let me try it again. Well, there's something wrong here. All right, let me try it again.

Alex is with us in Minnesota. Hi, Alex. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How can John and I help? Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Well, I have a quick little back story. My wife and I started Financial Peace University about three or four years ago when we were engaged.

We are now married and will be married for four years this summer. We were kind of on the Dave-ish plan before, but now we are full-blown Dave. We're going to be debt-free of $25,000 by the end of the year. Good. And a quick question I have is my wife has always been on board with Dave Ramsey, but we already kind of have a financial advisor that we had for life insurance. And she's a little leery

because she knows the company and their background. She's not really interested in looking at going to a smart investor. But I was looking at wanting to interview some so that when by the end of the year, you'd be able to continue the next step. So I just was curious, what are your thoughts on how to get her on board

or she's she's not 100 sure of like how reputable the companies are and things like that the companies where which companies they're smart investor pros that work that yeah we have that your smart investor goes work for and stuff like that oh i guess i'm not so so um well i there's on i mean you just have to do your due diligence meaning if i'm i'm thinking if i'm cynical about something or i'm questioning suspicious of something which is like how i live most of my life so i can kind of relate to your wife you know know, it's like, yeah, so you say, right? I'm going to investigate and learn and grow knowledge, and I'm going to either become more comfortable or less comfortable.

Less comfortable would be confirming my fears. Less, more comfortable, I would be there. John, let's talk about that when we come back from the break a little bit. You got it. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, I love telling you about well-made, well-thought-out products. Today, I'm talking about Grip6 belts. I don't know about you, but I'm not a fan of traditional belts.

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Plus, I like the way these guys do business. Grip 6 is determined to help build and modernize American manufacturing. To learn more and get this month's Dave Ramsey special, visit GRIP6.com. That's GRIP6.com. all right john alex's wife was saying we're with an insurance company that doesn't agree with the teachings that we're getting from Dave. But it's a big company. I trust them. I'm suspicious that the companies are not as reputable under the SmartVestor Pro program, and so I don't want to make a move. And so my suggestion there is for anyone in that situation, that's healthy.

I mean, it's a wise thing to, you know, be suspicious and not just be naive. And I don't want to be, like, weirded out about things in terms of, like, totally cynical and crazy about it, like everything's a conspiracy out to get me kind of a thing or paranoia or whatever. But I do need to be a healthy level of, I don't know, cynicism, whatever you want to call it, enough to go do your work and find out. But you can, but it's not wise to not act on something just because you have a suspicion. Go look at it. It could be Dave Ramsey's a shyster

and that these smart investor pros are all shysters. It could be, right? I mean, that's possible. I don't think it's possible. I'm Dave Ramsey, so that wouldn't make sense to me, but that'd be a little inconsistent. But I think they're great guys. I think we've vetted them.

I think when she investigates, she'll get a comfort level. But to not act and not investigate is, that's just kind of stonewalling, isn't it? Yeah, and I think you can make that an identity. That it's like – I remember I had some seasons in my life where I lived into that, and I was the contrarian and the this and the that. But it became past – it went beyond healthy to just annoying, man. And so the way i like to live my life is this if you prove you're trustworthy then i like to have a guy and i'm not going to ask you

anymore i had my insurance agent cell number for 15 16 years i didn't ask because i trusted that guy and if dave ramsey's financial peace has worked if my marriage is better after following this program if it's helped us here and here and here, then you've got to make a trust decision. But I also get the, my bent is to say, yeah, but. Well, investigate. There you go. So what I would do if I was Alex. Let the smart investor prove out or not.

That's right. So if I was Alex, I would tell my wife, let's meet with two of them. Let's compare. And tell them your concern. That's right. And ask them to prove otherwise. And if it doesn't work, then I'll go with this big company that even though they think that somebody that we've trusted and has proved trustworthy in our home, that they don't trust them. We may go with you on that one.

That's inconsistent as crud for me. I can't do that. It is, too. It makes me think that there's deeper value judgments here. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Could be. Could be. makes me think that there's there's deeper value judgments here yeah all right yeah um could be could be i the the thing about the uh insurance world is that uh for years much more than for

decades um it was um the whole life agent was an elder in your church, and so was the car dealer and the banker. And it was like the Chamber of Commerce on the elder board. But they were under the heading of the successful businessmen, later women, in the community. And so my daddy trusted this guy, and I'll trust this guy. And no one ever questioned that. And I think it's good to question. I do, too. I think it's good to question that.

And what you may find, if you get into it, is in the insurance world that what appears to be a big, stable company isn't. Hey, my mom worked at Enron. You don't need to tell me that. There it is. That says it all. All right, Shay is with us in Arizona. Hi, Shay. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? How can John and I help you? So I just have a quick question for you. My boyfriend and I have been dating for about a year, and we're starting to talk about being married. and i kind of feel a little guilty having him okay your phone is going weird kiddo

can you speak directly into it yes that's a little better yeah okay um my boyfriend and i have been dating for about a year and we're starting to talk about getting married and i feel kind of guilty knowing he's gonna show up and buy an engagement ring when he still has a lot of debt am i a little crazy for thinking that way you're feeling guilty that he's saving up to buy an engagement ring while he has a lot of debt okay um what does he make he makes about 44 and uh how much debt does he have he has about 17 on a car and about 22 students 17 on a car and what 22 22 on student loans and um have you guys discussed this ring thing enough that you might have an idea what his budget is?

No. Okay. Well, if he were healthy financially, he's not. I would tell him as an old man to a younger man, don't spend more than one month's take-home pay on the ring. That's enough. There is no statistical correlation between the size of the diamond and the marriage lasting as a matter of fact when the diamond gets to a certain size there's an inverse correlation so um meaning that if she needs a rock that big she probably ain't yours

and so uh it doesn't work but anyway so so a good woman like you that asks a question like you're asking is very mature and very kind. And spy the fact that you're scared I'm going to say don't buy a ring because you really do want one. Unless you're just weird. And I don't think you're weird. So I think you need to get a ring. So let's get a ring that has a reasonable budget. The guy has a car he can't afford.

He probably needs to sell that anyway. And let's talk about, you know, let's see, $44,000. So his take-home pay is probably $3,000 a month. So if $3,000 was a normal max, you know, because he's got a lot of debt, let's cut it in half and let's get started with a starter ring, right, a $1,500 ring. By the way, my wife Sharon got married to me with a engagement ring that was.23 carats. It wasn't even a fourth of a carat.

And that sweet, precious, romantic little ring is in the safe, and she wears a headlight now on her hand. So it's a starter ring it doesn't you're not stuck with it it's not you're not gonna be 85 wearing it probably if you guys go and win but uh i don't think you need to feel guilty if he spends 1500 or less in cash on a ring especially if he's making other moves john what do you think shea um how big of a ring do you want? I mean, well, selfishly, I want something pretty to wear the rest of my life. But, I mean, that's not worth ruining our financial future over. That's the question I wanted to hear your answer to.

So good for you. And so I think I love what Dave said. I think it's great. And I want you to sit down with him and say, here's who I want us to be financially moving forward. Make sure you'll have that conversation before you get way down the road. And like Dave, I've been with the same woman for more than half my life now. And this is a, I don't know, maybe 35 bucks at James Avery, something like that back in the day. And it works just fine.

So it works just fine. Well, you're not a lady so that's true that's true you can get away with that but yeah yeah so yeah this is good shay the good news here is it opens up a great conversation because john and i know that the statistics tell us the number one cause of divorce is money problems money fights money disagreements and this gives you guys a chance to align on that subject and him to hear loud and clear how much you hate debt and him to hear loud and clear that you're willing to put your all's the financial good of your future ahead of the size of the rock on your hand.

You're willing to make good, mature decisions together. These are really good, healthy conversations for y'all to be aligned on before he buys you a ring. Good for you for asking. What a stud, Shea. That's awesome. Well done, kiddo. Very proud of you. It's going to work out great. And by the way, go through Financial Peace University as a couple as our guest. We'll go ahead and give you an engagement gift. Kelly will sign you up. Hang on. She'll pick up and get you going on that so um the uh all of the data and you've seen you've heard me talk about it but you've seen it from the counseling world as well that if you can get aligned on money it causes you to get aligned on everything else you've got to plan together

talk together communicate together i mean it's just what a gift really good pre-marriage counseling really good stuff dr john deloney joining me this hour. James Childs is our producer. Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. Back in the seat, America. She's in the building. Oh, my goodness. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Solutions wants to give you some hope.

For the very first time ever, we're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope so you can watch from home.