The Ramsey Show - App - Carly Fiorina and Dave Discuss the Importance of Character (Hour 1)

Episode Date: April 23, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. As we talk about your life and your money. Corey starts off this hour in Salt Lake City. Hi, Corey. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you today?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. Thank you for the opportunity to be on your show. I really appreciate it. So, Dave, my question is, well, a little bit of background. So my wife and I combined income, we take home about $86,000 a year. And me and my wife, we're new to your baby steps. We have about $12,900 in student loan debt. And I have recently taken an interest in software coding. My current job, I'm kind of capped out in my income, and I'd like to make more, but I need to go back to school. I found a software boot camp here in Salt Lake City that is about $14,900 for a three-month

course to learn coding. My question is, should I pay off my student loans first and then save up money to pay for the software boot camp or put my loans on hold, save up money and pay for this boot camp and and and do that you make eighty six thousand dollars a year household income yeah yeah okay why can't you do both in a year yeah we can okay we can more or less my question is what should i do first should i pay off my student loans first and then save up and do the... Well, I would pay off because it's not delaying you. If it was five years delaying you to get to do your thing, but it's delaying you six months. Okay.

Yeah, go get your student loans knocked out, then save up the money and go to school. Now, the code school, is it night or day? It is a full-time day course. It's from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. So you're going to quit your job. The Code School, is it night or day? It is a full-time day course. It's from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. So you're going to quit your job. Well, that was another thing. Yeah, I'd have to save up some money or work nights. What do you make at your job?

What portion of the 86 is you? 68. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Right. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm a technical writer, and there's just not a lot of job growth here in Utah for that. There's about seven or eight open positions right now, and I've actually interviewed for a couple. How much of that can you do freelance?

I've done a little bit of freelance. I made about $ four thousand dollars last year freelance um but that that dried up i'd have to find another another contract that's that's an option too i think i would find three contracts to do while you're in school okay before you quit your job and go to school okay because i the most disturbing math part of this whole discussion is 68, 70,000 of your 86 is going away. That sounds like starvation. Yeah.

You've got to have that covered. Okay. Some way or another. How's your family going to eat during this time? Unless somebody wants to hire you before you have finished code school and pay you while you're in code school yeah that's a detail i didn't think about i'd have to uh worry about that yeah somehow we got to cover that three months of food okay and um yeah it could be uh three contracts are laying there and you're doing your technical writing weekends and nights while

you go to school during the day i think you'll get employed very quickly coming out of code school, is my guess. There's pretty much a shortage out there. Which language are you thinking of learning? Well, this code school, they teach JavaScript and I believe it's Node.js. JavaScript's pretty popular. We've got several of those JavaScript, and I believe it's Node.js. Yeah. Okay. All right. JavaScript is pretty popular. I mean, we've got several of those folks on the team.

We've got a bunch of Ruby folks on the team. And, yeah, I think just based as an employer in the marketplace hiring people, that that should get you landed in a position very quickly once you come out of code school. I might want to have that lined up, though. Okay. I don't want to come out and then start my job search. Okay. You know, at least I have about four warm leads of where I'm going to go to work upon completion, all four of them expressing interest, saying, hey, call us when you get out.

We think we'll put you on. In the meantime, you've got some technical writing gigs and again once you learn the code it'll be better to get on with somebody it's going to be a little tough to do it freelance when you got no experience but exactly um but i'm just trying to make sure your family eats at the end of the story before you land in the big javascript job okay from the time you quit your job until you land post-code school in that, that gap, that three months plus getting hired gap is scaring me. If you got that covered, then, yeah, I would pay off my debt,

and then I'd save up my $14,000, and I would go do it. I think it's a good move. I like the overall move, and it's the direction I would go. But you've just got to think through the pieces of it so you don't leave a hole in there, and it derail your your plan turn your plan into a night your dream into a nightmare josh is in indianapolis hi josh how are you i'm doing good dave how are you better than i deserve what's up uh well i have a um leaf truck that i want to get out of, and that was my dumb decision of the century. And me and my wife, we don't have the money saved up to get out of the lease

except for that penalty that I would incur. So I was wondering what your advice might be, and I should move forward. Okay. You have to borrow the difference or save up the difference. Okay. And it's not a penalty. It's the difference in what the buyout or the payoff on the lease is and what the car is worth.

And so go on kellybluebookkbb.com and find out what the car is worth or truck's worth private sale. And so if you sell it to me for 20 but the fleece company says you still owe 27 you got a seven thousand dollar hole you got to have that covered with saved money or borrowed money and so you could talk to your local bank or credit union about borrowing a small unsecured loan like that to get you out that's done all the time but if you've got really bad credit or a bunch of other debt that'll be very hard to do but um i think you're on the right track and that's that's

definitely the direction i would go so hey thanks for the call open phones at 888-825-5225 megan is on instagram if you really believe people shouldn't use credit cards, why does your web store take credit cards? Well, Megan, it doesn't. We have a very clear sign on there saying not to use a credit card in the store, to use a debit card only. So, I know you'd like for me to be a hypocrite because that would make it where you didn't have to go do all the crap I'm telling you to do that's uncomfortable for you to win, but darling, I'm not a hypocrite. We don't suggest people borrow money to do anything we do here, and we do not take credit cards. We take debit cards on our site. So very clear signage there.

Very easy to find. Open discussion about it. You technically could run a credit card through there, but you would be disobeying what we told you to do. And then that would make you the hypocrite, not me. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. There's nothing smart about smartphones if your wireless plan is blowing your budget each month. Pure Talk USA offers smarter wireless with unlimited plans starting as low as $20 per month. You never pay data overage fees, and we never turn off your data. No contracts, no hidden fees, and if you're thinking our low cost means less coverage, think again.

Our voice and data service covers 99% of Americans, and our 4G LTE network provides the fastest internet speeds like more expensive carriers. We operate on the largest GSM network in the U.S. to ensure you receive reliable coverage virtually anytime, anywhere. Plus, you can keep your same phone and number and add multiple lines to save more. We're so confident you'll love Pure Talk USA that we invite you to try our service risk-free. Visit puretalkusa.com or call 844-862-3677. Enter promo code SAVEDAVE and receive 50% off your first month. That's puretalkusa.com. Well, on the phone line, Ms. Carly Fiorina is with us. Carly, how are you?

I'm well, Dave. How are you doing today? I am better than I deserve. Congratulations on your new book. Well, thank you so much. Find Your Way, Unleash Your Power and Highest Potential. This is a great book. You did a great job with this. And I love the cover. It's real clean and in your face.

I really like it. Too many people... In your face? Well, that's a good combo. Well, it is. It is. I mean, too many people clutter these things up, and we do books all the time around here, and we have to work real hard to not put too much on them.

And it's just, it's well done, very well done. Good job. So what were you thinking of? What did you have in mind when you put Find Your Way on paper and decided it was a book? Well, I think there were two things i was thinking about one is i see a lot of people who feel some degree of helpless hopeless powerless and frustrated and they kind of look around them and they see all these festering problems and they sort of throw their hands up and there's a lot about what goes on around us that can contribute to

us feeling that way. You know, a lot of people are disappointed in institutions or disappointed in so-called leaders or disappointed in politics or disappointed in whatever. And the other thing that I worry a lot about is I think our culture sends all the wrong signals right now, particularly to young people, but to all of us. Our culture lifts up controversy, conflict, outrage, fame, power, wealth. We don't lift up so much character or being who you're intended to be instead of just going along with the crowd and finding your tribe. We celebrate how many likes you get on Facebook and, you know, how many followers on Instagram. Those are all the wrong things.

Agreed. And so I felt as though it was a good time to tell people all the things I've learned along the way, including why sometimes you've got to blow up the plan. Yeah, it can be done, and here's how you do it. I'm talking with Carly Fiorina. I jumped right in as if everyone knows you. I assumed they do, but first woman ever to lead a Fortune 50 company. She was recruited to lead HP,

and as she changed the whole culture of the company on innovation as a leadership junkie. I've studied your stuff for years. And market leadership revenues grew. Innovation tripled. Growth quadrupled. HP became, she grew it to become the 11th largest company in the U.S. More recently, you may remember her running on the Republican ticket for president recently. And I bet that was an experience. Well, yes, and I bet that was an experience.

Well, yes, it was. It was an experience. That's one word. Yeah, because you mentioned... Well, I've learned what's right and what's wrong about our politics. In brief, the voters are right, the system is wrong. Ooh, okay. All right. I love what you said, that we're telling people to do the wrong things.

Character does matter. And when we're teaching leadership to small business people or doing a leadership conference that's ours next week in San Diego, I'm always telling folks if the thing at the top is rotten, the whole thing's going to end up being rotten someday. Character just invades every part of an organization. Well, that's right. And it invades every part of a life. Character is destiny over time for a person, for an organization, for a nation, honestly. And what I meant when I said voters are right and the system is wrong has everything to

do with character. You know, leaders, I believe, change the order of things for the better. Specifically, that means that they actually have to work with others to solve problems. And a lot of our political system is not geared to solving problems. It's geared to winning. And frequently what helps people win is not the solution of problems, but the magnification of problems. And so we're not here to talk about politics, and that's not my purpose. But my purpose is to say the character does count, that leadership isn't about title or position or wealth or fame.

It's about changing the order of things for the better. And to do that, you have to have character, because character is knowing that how you get things done is as important as what gets done. And it's about integrity and courage and decency and honesty over time, every time, not just when it's easy and convenient. So when you were at Hewlett-Packard and you are looking for a leader of a division or a company or a section of the company or putting someone in a leadership role and you're making that decision, they're that in a leadership role, and you're making that decision. They're that senior a leadership role.

One of the things that I think folks are confused about, and some of them are running businesses and some of them are in politics, is they think if they hire talent that's devoid of character that that's going to be enough. And my personal experience, I mean, I've got a little company here. It's only about 850 people. But my experience has been I would rather have somebody that's a little short on talent and really deep on character. I'd rather have both, actually.

But if I've got to choose. I completely agree. But if I've got to choose, I'll take character. That's right. What happens is if someone is devoid of character, they corrode everyone and everything around them over time because they make choices that are corrosive because they ask other people to do things that are corrosive. And you see that happening in companies all the time,

whether it's Enron or Serranos. It doesn't matter. If you have someone who's going to make the wrong choice because of their lack of character, it doesn't affect just them. It affects everything and everyone around them. And, of course, the higher they are in the company, the more people and situations it infects. The book is Find Your Way by Carly Fiorina. She is with us this segment. Unleash your power and your highest potential.

You mentioned earlier the prevailing climate of distrust, of suspicion of government, suspicion of media, suspicion of church, suspicion of large corporations. What do you think can be done about that? Well, first I would say, in many cases, the suspicion is well placed. I mean, that's the reality. People are disappointed and suspicious because they have been given reason to be so. That doesn't mean that everyone in the institution or everyone in the church

or everyone in politics is bad. It means that the institution, the system, is failing to meet expectations. I think it starts, Dave, with exactly what you just said. It has to start with a recognition that character does matter, that the culture of an organization that stems from its character is going to matter over time. There are so many institutions, organizations, where people are taught to cut corners because it yields a result. So, for example, in a company, a lot of people are taught, just hit the number. Just hit the number.

How you hit the number doesn't matter. Just hit the number. And in the short term, that works. But over time, it never works. Right. And sometimes it takes a long time for it to be clear. But I think that's what's happening. And institutions, of course, always seek to preserve themselves.

And so people kind of rationalize it. Well, you know, we can't really fix this because we'll jeopardize a bigger thing. If it's rotten in character, it's rotten to the core. So we've got just a second, but before I let you go, I want to hear quickly the story of your campaign manager telling you it's time to pull the plug on the campaign. Well, I knew that. I didn't need him to tell me that. I had already come to that conclusion. I knew it was a long shot.

I thought it was worth doing. I believed in my reasons for doing it. I still do. And it was clear when the shot went from long to impossible. And so it was time. Thank you so much for joining us. I apologize for cutting you off. I'm so honored to have you.

Thanks for being with us. And the book is Find Your Way. Carly Fiorina is with us. Unleash Your Power and Highest Potential. Highly recommend it. Check it out. Thanks, Carly. Thank you. Jonathan and Sonnet are with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, Dave.

Hey, so excited to talk to you. You too. I see on my screen you're debt-free. How much have you guys paid off? We paid off $88,591. Very good. And how long did this take? 12 months to the day.

Oh, love it. And your range of income during that time? We went from $8 to 208. To what? Down to 108? No, 138 to 208. Oh, 208. I'm sorry. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a structural engineer. And I'm a registered dietitian. So why did your income go up 30 percent so uh it's amazing that they actually pay you more when you work harder so we started 138 with just our base uh and then we went to uh then we started working as many hours as we could so sonica picked up a second job uh i was doing 55 to 60 hours and she was doing the same with the second job 55 to 60 hours, and she was doing the same with the second job, 55 to 60.

Okay. So you just cranked your hours, both of you, way up in your given professions, and that gave you that boost. So you can crank them back down and have a better life now. Yeah. Good. What kind of debt was the $89,000? It was a little bit of everything.

So we had student loans. We had a personal loan from family for a down payment for a house. We had credit cards, including a Home Depot card. And then we had a vintage car, because that's what we needed when we were broke, was a vintage car project. Sure. What kind of car did you have? A 1969 Triumph GT6. Ooh, sweet.

So did you sell that? We did not. We paid it off. You did not. We paid it off. So did you have some money in the bank? I mean, how did you find $89,000 in 12 months making $138,000? So we did sell some things, and not a lot. I mean, we probably maybe $3,000 or $4,000 selling stuff.

But one of the big things was when i started listening to you on the radio and started going through the homesteady course uh it talks on it into we had some individual stocks about 10,000 individual stocks okay all right that helped move the needle then and then just crank the hours up within everything else just cutting back yeah so the majority of the 12 months, you've been up above, up at that 200 mark. You just started at 138, and you said, okay, both of us turned the heat up. Here we go. And so most of that 12, you've been more 208 than 138. We've been probably a little bit over half of it.

We were closer to 208. Yeah, okay. We had one final raise at the very end that pushed it over. Gotcha. Okay, well, that makes the math work. Very good. Good for you guys. What got you started on this 12 months ago?

What was the thing that lit the fuse? I think so it started actually three months before that, 12 months before we started on the program. I unexpectedly lost my job. And with that, I was called into the office office and they said, we're letting you go. We need you to turn in your company car keys, your company phone, and your computer. So we went from living paycheck to paycheck with a double income to less than half of our income. Whoa. Yeah. That's a wake up call. It was. We had a one and a half year at home, and it definitely just rocked the world. They made us scared that we were going to lose a house, scared that we were going to have to sell

our items and try to figure out how we're going to provide for the family at that point. How'd you bridge the gap, or how quickly did you get re-employed? It took three months. So we basically wiped out any savings that we had and maxed out every credit card that we had during that time. Okay. And then at the end of that time, you said, we've got to clean this mess up because I don't ever want to be here again? Exactly. Yeah, my parents were FPU coordinators.

Oh. They'd given us a home study course, and being that I lost my vehicle, we started showing them, like, oh, you know, we're going to have to get a new vehicle now. We're just going to have to find something and buy something. And they said, no, don't do that. You guys don't need any more debt. And they gave us one of their old vehicles to use. Oh, wow. Okay.

All right. That way the project car doesn't have to get on the road. It wasn't even ready for it. Oh, okay. It wasn't ready to roll. Okay. All right. Well, very cool, guys.

What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? So one of the things is definitely you have to be working together. You have to be on the same page. You can't be doing a budget and then doing something else on the side. And ultimately, we just decided, you know, we're in control of our future and our destiny. So are we going to just sit back and let life happen to us, or are we going to take control of that? And then just not being afraid of working hard. So, you know, when opportunity presents itself, take the job, work the extra hours, you know, actually show up and work. And maybe if you haven't asked for a raise in a while, ask for that raise. You know,

could it hurt? And then it was fun for us because we would just, we'd start dreaming of the future too. So we'd drive dreaming of the future too so we'd drive around different neighborhoods like oh that'd be cool you know someday you know maybe we can have a house like this or dreaming about family vacations we'd love to go there and so that really helped us stay on track yeah this is going to be worth it is what you were telling yourself oh yeah yeah yeah good job so Financial Peace University Home Studies is what you did. We did. Yeah.

And then we, so we're actually in the middle of our third, we're coordinating our third FPU class right now. Oh, wow. Well, thank you. That's awesome. Thank you. We just love doing that. Yeah. Coordinating will make you do the stuff.

I mean, it's like the teacher must behave, you know, so yeah, it's good stuff. Well, congratulations, you two. Very proud of you. I bet your mom and dad are. Oh, man. Yeah, they're excited that they finally got us on the planet. I'm sure they were cringing the entire time with every choice you made. Probably.

Well, good for them for having good boundaries and letting you find your way. This is good stuff. Well done. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires, How Ordinary People Built Extraordinary Wealth and How You Can Too. And that is definitely the next chapter in your whole story, right?

Oh, yeah. Love it. All right, Jonathan and Sonnet from Phoenix, Arizona. $89,000 paid off in 12 months, making $138,000 to $208,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We are going free!

I love it! Well done. Well done. Man, that's fabulous. Good job. Very good job. Well done. Well done. Man, that's fabulous. Good job. Very good job. Jenny is with us in Asheville, North Carolina.

Hi, Jenny. How are you? I'm great, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, we live in a house that's going to be too small in the very near future for our family. We're trying to get out.

We have a roof that's leaking into the bathroom in the hallway. We have a 20 by 30 shop. That roof is leaking. It's $10,000 to fix it. By next paycheck, we'll have 7,000 saved. Then all the rain came and now we have a landslide behind our shop and about a 30 foot cliff now that's five feet from the back. And our driveway is washed out. We don't know what to do or what we're going to have to borrow money i don't i don't know what else to do um we have to have a retaining wall to save our shop so we don't lose more property and uh yeah but what do we do well um what what i did when i was in those same situations, I didn't have a landslide, but I did have a leaking roof, and I did have a bad driveway. and say, okay, what is the most important thing on this list and what is the cheapest way to at least patch it to where we could get to the next thing? And so, like, I bought a, I think it was a $30 pail of this liquid rubberized stuff

and got up on the roof and painted around the thing with rubberized stuff and it quit leaking. It was not a permanent fix and it was not going to enable me to sell the house with that fix. I did go back later and save up the money and put a $6,000 roof on the house. But I had water dripping from the roof through the dining room fixture onto the kitchen table, through the electric fixture, which is probably not a good thing, you know, with little kids running around and so forth.

So, yeah, that's what I did. And so I don't know, but what you can do if you're not careful is you can get so emotionally overwhelmed with this stuff coming at you is you can become desperate. And every time I become desperate, right after that, I become stupid. And so go real slow, real deliberate. What are some stopgap things we can do? Then what's the next thing? And then what's the next thing?

And how are we going to use this 7,000? We'll be right back. Michael is with us in Scottsdale, Arizona. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Michael. Hey, Dave. How's it going? Can you hear me? Absolutely. Welcome. How can I help? Perfect. All right, so let me try to paint this picture for you. I'm 23. I've been married for two years.

My wife and I, our income was pretty low for like the past, I would say, for the first year of our marriage, our income together was about 40 grand. However, now I'm making closer to 120. Wow, good for you. We have no debt. Our monthly expenses are closer to $3,000 per month. And we have about $70,000 in savings right now. Good for you.

And so our question for you, and I know you talk about this a lot, about not going into debt. However, I know mortgages are okay. We're looking to buy a home here pretty soon. My question for you is what size home or, I guess, what price point would be okay for us? Well, obviously, we love the 100% down plan because that's the shortest path to wealth is to be out of debt and stay out of debt right but we don't yell at people for taking on a mortgage i don't take on mortgages i don't borrow money for anything ever under any circumstances and i haven't for almost 30 years so um you know i need to tell you that you know, this is the one time that you'll hear me say something that I'm okay with, but I don't do.

So I don't want you to think I'm hypocritical, in other words. Now, the guidelines we use is you're at baby step three, which means you have your emergency fund in place. In addition to that, you have your down payment, and you have no debt, which it sounds like you are, okay? And then so you would take some of that 70 000 is that over and above your emergency fund of three to six or is that included um so i have a separate bank account for my down payment which is like 50 000 there you go and then the other 20 000 is we have 15 000 in savings for our emergency fund right we have five thousand dollars in like our spend account okay all right

so 50 is your down payment okay and then we got your you still have your emergency fund and your debt free you've done very well by 23 great job excellent job now if you put that as your down payment then you don't want to buy a house the maximum you would buy no one says you have to buy maximum but the maximum i would ever recommend is where the payment is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage. And I'm not counting 401Ks, and I'm not counting health insurance, but I'm talking about your after-tax income that you come home

with. You don't want more than a fourth of that going to your house payment on a 15-year fixed rate, plus you figure out that amount, plus $50,000, and you have your maximum. Okay. And then when I get my mortgage, should I try to pay that? Because my plan was kind of, like you said, I'd rather pay that off as fast as possible. Yeah. Pay it off fast. I was thinking about making payments on top of that,

like maybe two or $3,000 a month on top of my 15 year mortgage to be able to pay it off in closer to five years. I love it. Do it. Um, you're going to be wealthy that much faster. You're going to be a problem I have with that. If I were to do that,

I probably wouldn't be investing money during that time. Well, I would, I would slow down. That's called baby step six, paying off your house. And I would slow down your baby step six by enough to put 15% of your household income towards your retirement plans. And that means that money wouldn't be available to reduce the mortgage. So you're going to reduce the mortgage a little bit slower. So if you would have made it in five years under that plan,

you'd probably make it in seven years, which, by the way, is about the average. So if you had a paid-for home and for seven years you've been putting 15%, which really is almost $20,000 a year for you, away into retirement, and you have a paid-for home at age 30, by age 35 to 40, right in there, you're going to have a net worth of over a million dollars. Oh, it'll be faster than that, hopefully. Well, that's where, depending on what your income does, but that's not moving your income.

If you don't move your income, that's where you're going to end up. So you're rocking it, dude. You're doing a great job. Very well done. Proud of you. All right, Bill is with us in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Bill. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Dave, how's it going? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Okay. I'm a pretty new listener. I started listening just a couple weeks ago. I'm going to be graduating undergraduate up here in May with about $50,000 in debt. And since listening to your show, I've been starting to reconsider my plans for the future.

I've got a full tuition scholarship for law school next fall. Wow. And I was just wondering if I should try to cash flow the living expenses. Yes. Then the problem that I've been running into is we have to sign an agreement for our first year that we aren't going to be working. So when do you start law school? In this coming fall? Yeah, in August.

And you graduate in May. Right. And I went through and I made a budget like you recommend to people and my living expenses are going to be about 780 a month okay so you need um ten thousand dollars well is the first year september through may or september to september um the first year, it's August to May. Okay. Times 780, right? Right. And so I've got $9,000.

Yeah. Okay. So we have from May until August to make $9,000. Yeah. Do you think that's feasible? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Definitely. You're not going to do anything else. until august to make nine thousand dollars yeah do you think that's feasible yeah yeah definitely okay definitely you're not going to do anything else you're going to collapse when you go to law school you're going to be so happy to go because you're going to be so tired

because you're going to be sick of pizza and uber and you're going to be sick of waiting tables and you're going to be sick of cutting grass and you're going to be sick of whatever it is you're doing and you're going to do a whole bunch of a lot of it. I mean, I'm talking like 80-hour weeks here. Okay. But you can get $9,000. I mean, it's $3,000 a month for three months. Yeah.

Above your other living expenses. You can do that. Here's a typical person delivering pizzas six nights, five nights a week, is making $1,500 a month. That's at night. Drive Uber during the day or cut grass during the day or walk dogs during the day. I don't care. You're not taking any $7 an hour jobs.

You can't afford to. You've got to make more than that. But you're going to do some crappy stuff that pays a lot. So you have your money in the bank. Okay. And here's what's going to start to, here's what's going to weird here's what's weird it's going to happen okay you're going to make the nine thousand dollar mark early and you're going to be so on fire you're going to keep working because 12 is going to feel better than nine okay that's what i wanted to hear yeah once you get lit

on fire it's going to be hard to put you out. Awesome. But you got this. You can do it. I know you. Man, that's so cool. How did you get a scholarship to law school? Way to go, stud. Thanks. It was outside of GPA, I guess. Oh, big-time scores. So you got an intellect on you then. Yes.

Well, I wonder if there's something you can do with that that would make you more than me putting you into manual labor like I was a minute ago. Any ideas on where you can go make $20 an hour doing something? See, that's the problem I've been running into. I haven't been able to find a job where I can really apply my undergraduate degree, you know? I don't know if it's that. It might be just your intellect. Okay.

Because you're obviously extremely bright. I mean, if you score so high on the LSAT, they give you a dadgum scholarship, you ding the bell on that. I mean, that's not – you're like already top 2%, right? Yeah, for the school I applied to. Yeah, that's the only way you're going to get that number. Wow, man, way to go. Hey, you can do it.

I put you to doing stuff that anybody can do. Any of us can go do that. I mean, I chopped wood during Christmas break to pay for my winter tuition and sold it to firewood, sold it door to door. That was back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. That won't work now. But, I mean, I got a chainsaw and a pickup truck and went and saw wood. So you can do anything.

But, I mean, I'm not as smart as you. You probably come up with something better than that with your intellect. So that's awesome, man. Well done. Wow. Okay. So we just went to law school with no doubt. Did y'all hear that?

Don't miss that. That just happened right here. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to the Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.