The Ramsey Show - App - Cash Flow a Wedding or Pay Off Debt? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: October 22, 2018

The show about you

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in, and we'll talk about your life and your money. Well, on this show, you know I've gone on record quite often saying I've got a bunch of millennials here in the building. And we have a bunch of millennials that come on the show and do their debt-free scream. And so I've become a big fan of millennials. Because the millennials who get it, get it at a completely different level than other generations have.

They get on fire for something. They're on fire for something. Once they attach themselves to a cause, they will run through a brick wall. And so the sharp millennials are the sharpest I've seen, and I don't know when. The dull millennials are the dumbest humans I've seen, and I don't know when. The most shiftless participation trophy living in your mother's basement group I've ever seen. And the good news about millennials is there's really only two kinds, fabulous and sucks.

And there is a bunch of them that are fabulous. And so I don't know why I decided to take up the cause of bragging on millennials. I think it's because there's a group of people my age and in the media and in some of these stupid butt magazines and stuff that say all kinds of negative things about them as if the entire generation is living in their mother's basement collecting participation trophies it's just not true there's a group of them that are but there's a group of them that are freaking rock stars too and so you know i I guess that's why. And so I've just kind of, when I pick up one of these articles now, I don't know why I get mad about it.

I don't like it. And CNN Money has become a ridiculous publication. It's just a ridiculous publication. The reason it's a ridiculous publication is they will print anything. I don't know if they have an editor or not that actually looks over the stuff and goes, this is bull crap. We're not putting this in our publication. Because they will print anything.

One article will make a lot of sense and be very good, and the next article you would think the guy's parents or cousins that wrote it. I mean, dumb human beings writing articles and published in CNN Money. And so I've seen everything in CNN Money. So, you know, occasionally I'll quote something out of there, positive. But this one just burned me up. Millennials aren't opening credit cards, and that's a mistake from CNN Money. Millennials don't use credit cards like their parents or their grandparents.

Less than a third of millennials say they have a credit card, while more than half the people, age 30 to 49, own one. And nearly 70% of people over 65 do, according to a Bankrate survey. Financial experts, which I always love, who are those people, say it's the fear of debt. Well, yeah, that would make sense you stupid people that explains why young people are shying away from credit

the fear of debt is like I don't want to go in debt because they don't think debt's good yeah that would be a good reason not to go in debt that's really you needed a financial expert to figure that out did you okay I'm glad you found one to quote they're vague we have no idea who the financial expert is.

Millennials have been stigmatized by debt, explains Douglas Boneparth, president of Bonafide Wealth in New York and co-author of the Millennial Money Fix, a book that sold a thousand copies. I don't know. I've never heard of it. I'm sorry. They've witnessed firsthand the effects that mishandling debt can bring. Well, that would be true. Many watched parents or friends slip into debt during the 2008 financial crisis. Others have been crippled by student loans that take years to pay off. Experiences like that have made millennials wary of spending money they don't have.

Oh, well, that's not a bad thing. I think that's called wisdom. You're the same publication making fun of millennials, and now you're saying they're wary of spending money they don't have, and that's a mistake, according to CNN Money. Jeez, unbelievable. And more likely to retire on debit cards or cash. Oh, man.

Consumer protection laws passed after the crisis also contribute to the generational gap. The Card Act of 2009 makes it harder for millennials to qualify for a credit card. No, it doesn't. Unless they can prove they have enough income to pay a bag of bull. Listen, if you're breathing, they will give you a credit card. And if you're not, they'll probably still give you one. They'll issue one in your dog's name and your cat's name. Let's be real about this. While being cautious about taking on too much debt is smart, experts, there are those experts again, agree.

Using credit cards responsibly can lead to benefits down the road. So you millennials who are wary of debt, You're afraid of debt. You millennials who... What was the phrase? Where did it go? Wary of spending money you don't have. Shame on you. We can't have that. We can't have you millennials

who are supposed to be shiftless and participation-driven... trophy... participation-trophy-driven idiots. We can't have you being responsible with your money. That just won't do. Oh, no.

No. We want you to build your credit score. Are you thinking about taking out a loan for a new car? You'll need a credit score. Yeah, that would be more debt. But remember, they're wary of debt. They don't like to spend money they don't have. Remember those millennials that were being wise like their great-grandparents?

Yeah. They had a little miniature Great Depression experience and crippled with student loans as a generation, and they've learned their lesson. They're not doing it anymore. But we can't have that at CNN Money. That's a mistake. Good luck getting your first home if you don't have a credit score.

Yeah, because at CNN Money, we don't know anything about getting a mortgage. We think you have to have a credit score to get a mortgage. At CNN Money, we don't know about manual underwriting. So we want to be sure you go get into debt, you millennials, because we can't have you being wary and only spending what you make. God help us know that would cripple the entire generation. Oh, and you're going to miss out on rewards. You're not going to get those rewards.

When done right and responsibly, you can leverage your accumulated rewards to accomplish your goals without breaking the bank, says San Francisco CFP George Gallat. Well, George, you're an idiot. When you get 1% back on your spending and you spend $100,000 to get $1,000, that is not leveraging. When you spend $100,000 to get $1,000 on your Discover card, that is not leveraging.

That's called stupid. Oh, and fraud protection. And here's the greatest. This just, I mean, if you're going to print stupid stuff, at least print stupid stuff that is the truth. Another compelling reason to opt for a credit card over a debit card is because they're better safeguard against potential fraud. Lie! Your Visa debit card has the exact same fraud protection as your Visa credit card. Your MasterCard debit card has the exact same fraud protection.

God, man, if you are going to write for something like CNN Money, at least do a monocle of research and look at Visa's website. They have a zero liability policy that extends to credit card and debit card users. If someone uses your debit card fraudulently, you are not liable for one dime of it. If someone uses your credit card fraudulently, you are not liable for one dime of it. If someone uses your credit card fraudulently, you are not liable for one dime of it. That's the exact same fraud protection. So, you millennials, we can't have you being responsible because then we wouldn't be able to make fun of you for sending in money. Well, that's the indirect statement here. I mean, they're chiding them

for being wary of spending money they don't have. When most of us would look at them and say that's wisdom, but not CNN money. Well, not at least this writer. And it got past the editor, if there is one. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

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I'm 46 years old and married, but we do not have any children. Should we get long-term care at 50 since we don't have any kids to help us or wait until 60? Wait until 60. The probability of staying in a nursing home prior to age 60 is less than 1%, so much less than 1%. It approaches zero. But once you're 60, it goes up every single minute. It's very weird so i highly recommend long-term care insurance or nursing home insurance or in-home care insurance once you're 60 because 75 of your ladies will outlive your husbands so the typical scenario is

that papa goes in the nursing home 50 50, 75,000 bucks a year, cracks and scrambles a $300,000 nest egg, dies, leaves Mama broke. That's the normal scenario. Had a decent retirement going into this scenario. A little bit of a nest egg there, but it's all gone. And nursing homes are not evil. They just have to be paid to operate. The people that work there actually want to feed their kids, so they need money called payroll.

So they're not evil, and they're not ripping people off. I don't want my money to go to a nursing home. It's like saying, I don't want my money to go to a restaurant even though I eat there. Well, that's dumb. Don't eat there then. But if you're going to need in-home care or care in a nursing home, you need to be able to pay for it. And long-term care insurance is absolutely a vital part of financial planning, but not until you're 60, whether you have kids or not. JD is with us in Sacramento, California. Hi, JD. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm

good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Thanks for taking my call. I'm calling with a question about mortgages. My wife and I are debt-free, and we've got Baby Step 3A done. We're working on 3B, and we just went through FPU. We coordinated it. Thank you. And in there it says 10%, but I hear you on your show say 20%. We'd prefer 100%, but if we can't get there, then one of those two.

So I'm just wondering what makes the difference between 10% and 20%. Okay. A good, really, really good question. Well, like you said, obviously 100% down is our favorite mortgage. Okay? Not one. All right. Yeah.

And when somebody's buying a second home, I pretty much slap my fist on the table and say, don't buy a house unless you're going to put down 20% on your second home, because you've got the equity coming out of the first home, right, in a normal scenario. On a first home, it's okay to whatever you can put down and get into the house, okay? Here's the reason 20% is advantageous. If you put 20% down, you have what's called an 80 loan then our 80 loan to value ratio that allows you with a standard fannie mae conventional loan or for that matter with an fha loan to have no pmi pmi stands for private mortgage insurance which basically is insurance

that pays the mortgage company money if they foreclose on you and lose money on the foreclosure. That's what it's for. So it has zero benefit to you under any circumstance. It's only because they are taking more risk because they don't have good asset protection on the ratio. You see what I'm saying? Okay. okay and pmi insurance is about 75 plus or minus a month per 100 000 borrowed so you get a couple hundred thousand dollar mortgage you got 150 to 200 bucks a month in pmi alone if you don't put down 20 so that's why we push people towards 20 but if you're on your first time home 20 can be a big difference

versus 10 and so if you buy a 15 year fixed rate where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay with 10 down you get pmi on your first home that's not the end of the world and you can get rid of the pmi when you pay the loan down to 80 of value by buying an appraisal that the mortgage from an appraiser that the mortgage company approves of, and then they will drop the PMI later after you get it paid down. Does the fact that we're in California where home prices are fairly high compared to the rest of the country make any difference? No, it doesn't make any difference. It's still the same situation.

You don't get a pass on mathematics just because you're in California. They don't, like, okay, your California math doesn't count. You know, we don't do that. So you still got to use common sense. But, you know, again, anytime you're, the higher the home price market you're in, the more difficult this discussion becomes to get all the way down to 20%. I'm not requiring 20%, but you get, J.D., how it's much to your advantage to not have that stinking PMI. Yeah.

I mean, because you start talking about a $300,000, $400,000 loan. I mean, we're talking about some money per month going out the window for insurance that's worth absolutely zero to you. Right. So that's what I'm trying to avoid here. So if you buy and you don't put down 20%, then keep chunking on that mortgage. Keep working your baby steps four, five, six simultaneous. Get that mortgage paid down and get that loan reset with an appraiser that's approved and then get that PMI drop. So you're not doing PMI for 20 years because it just sucks.

It's just a horrible, you know, it's just but it's part of the reason. And so it's a logical reason that they require it, but it's just super expensive. And it just is bad. So you want to get out of it as soon as you can, because then you get it to the business of really paying on your mortgage and not just wasted money. But, yeah, you know, we don't beat up on a first-time home buyer. You're doing baby step 3B for not putting down 20%. The goal always is to become 100% debt-free as fast as we can and not waste any money we don't have to waste. That's the goal we all have. Well, those of us that are in tune with being smart, anyway.

Nick is with us in Chattanooga. Hi, Nick. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. It's good to talk to you you too man what's up okay so i'm 25 i uh i have i've done pretty well for myself uh i have a dilemma though my achilles heel is cars i have a car it's a uh a 2009 chrysler 300, but it's the SRT8 model with the big hemi in it. That's a beast.

Yes. I paid well below Kelley Blue Book value, and I have about $5,000 to $6,000 worth of equity in the car. And I've been listening to you and going through your baby steps. It's going to be tough for me, but I think I need to sell the car. I know you're going to tell me to sell the car and use the money to finish my emergency fund. What is your car worth? Private market is $23,200, I think. And you said you're 25 and you're doing pretty well for yourself.

Tell me what that means. That means I have a good job. I've got $21,000 invested in my retirement. I have no credit card debt. Are you single? I'm single. And what's your income? My income is about $45,000 to $50,000 a year, give or take a little bit with overtime.

Is this your only debt on the car? That's my only debt. And how much do you owe on it? I owe $16,252.21. As a single guy, can't you pay that in a year? I mean, you have no life, but you get to keep the car. No life. You don't see the inside of a freaking restaurant unless you're working there.

I've been doing that, Dave. I've been Ubering on the side. Yeah, all right. I mean, I've been doing everything. I mean, you can probably pay $16,000 a year making $50,000 if you're single, can't you? Yes, sir. I'd keep the car. Okay.

All right. Let me tell you how I did the analysis. It's not how much you love the car or how cool a car it is, although both are valid because it is a seriously cool car. But the analysis is this. Can you be debt-free except your house in under two years? The answer is yes. And are your vehicles, the total of all your vehicles, worth less than half your annual income? And the answer is barely yes.

And you really love this car. So you're willing to fight for it to keep it. Don't have more than half your annual income tied up in stuff that goes down in value, dude. That's from one car guy to another car guy. Okay? I got lots of cars, but they're less than 1% of my net worth, dude. So just, if you're gonna

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Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. It's the smartest, most affordable way to protect yourself. Thank you for joining us, America. Kyle and Lindsey are with us in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hey, guys, how are you? Hi, Dave. Hey, Dave, we're calling to do our debt-free scream. I love it. How much have you two paid off?

$127,819. I love it. How long did that take? $127,819. I love it. How long did that take? 78 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We started at about $60,000, and now we're just right around $122,000. Wow.

Good for you. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a teacher. And I'm an analyst for a major bank. Very cool. What kind of debt was the $128,000? We had pretty much a little bit of everything, cars, credit cards, student loans. Mm-hmm.

Okay. And so it took six and a half years. Wow. Yeah. You had a lot of debt. Yeah. We just racked it up. You know, we were living off of the plastic cards and just following the Joneses, you know, trying to live up to that standard.

And then we decided when our daughter was born that it's time to get this in gear and learn how to handle money the right way. Okay, cool. So how did you do that? What was the process you went through well i i personally didn't really know how to handle money very well and then uh lindsey had some friends that had done financial peace university and she came home one night asked if if i'd heard of dave ramsey and dave i'm a big baseball fan and i said yeah i think so what team does he play he's a short stop yeah short and he stops that yeah oh my god that's great i love it she she suggested that we uh we had some friends that invited us to

to go through financial peace and we went to the the first lesson, and we were hooked ever since. And now we're FPU coordinators here at our church, and we're actually taking our church through momentum as we speak. Okay. Wow, thank you. Very cool. So you guys went all the way in, drank the Kool-Aid and everything. We did.

We did, absolutely. I love it. So what do you tell people now that you're helping your whole church do the thing, and they find out you are debt-free, what do you tell people the that you're helping your whole church do the thing and they find out you are debt-free, what do you tell people the keys to getting out of debt are? Dave, I would say communication and listen to your spouse. And definitely stick to the budget. So how did you do sticking to the budget over six and a half years? I know you fell off the wagon sometimes, but what percentage of the time,

80%, 90% that you stuck with it, 70%? What was it? I would say close to 90%. We had a few setbacks, and, Dave, I will say that the baby emergency fund, the starter, the $1,000 really, really came into play and was so handy to have. To have that as baby step one was truly a lifesaver in several instances very cool good good what was the hardest part of this for you guys

dave for me it was uh eating out i i love to go to restaurants and uh uh eat out and that was you know when the money ran out for that particular line item in the budget, that was it. That was hard for me. Yeah. What about you, Lindsay? I would say shopping just whenever I wanted to. Not being able to. Yeah, right.

You had to shop certain things at certain times so you could hit this bigger goal. Absolutely. Now that you've done it, was it worth it? Absolutely. Oh, without a doubt. Will you ever go back worth it? Absolutely. Oh, without a doubt. Will you ever go back in debt? No. No, not a chance.

Good. Very cool. Well, way to go, you two. Very proud of you. Did you have more cheerleaders or detractors as you went along? We had a little bit of both, but definitely more cheerleaders, more people cheering us on and really wanting us to accomplish our goal. Okay, so not too many eye rolls then?

No, not too many. I got you. All right. Well, congratulations, you guys. Very, very proud of you. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's number one bestselling book for you, signed by him. We'll ship it out to you to say congratulations. That's retire inspired inspired and that's

the next chapter in your story to be millionaires okay thank you thank you very much dave yeah we want to talk to you on the millionaire theme hour now and look forward to it and be outrageously generous along the way of course absolutely so kyle and lindsey little rock arkansas 128 and Lindsay, Little Rock, Arkansas, $128,000 paid off in 78 months, making $60,000 to $122,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! They did it.

I love it. Way to go, you guys. Congratulations. Hey, man. You know, you can do anything if you do it a step at a time. And if you don't quit walking. You can do anything. A step at a time and you don't quit.

Sometimes it takes 78 months. Sometimes it takes 78 months. Sometimes it takes seven months. But it's a step at a time, and you don't quit walking. Skye is with us in Houston, Texas. Hey, Skye, how are you? Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve.

What's up? So, my friend of mine had given me your book, The Complete Guide to Money, and I completely just did like a 180 and followed it, got my $1,000 in my savings. And I'm a nurse. I'm in basically like a house full of debt starting off. I did the math. I have maybe I could be out of debt within the next four years. And my question is, is that my income that I take home now annually is $52,400.

If I continue going to school to get my nurse practitioner degree, which is a two-year program. It's between $16,500 to $24,000. And I'm just a little worried. I'm just trying to get some advice if I should go into it or if I should wait. Are you single? Are you single? I'm separated. You're separated. How old are you? Yeah, I just turned 30. Okay, and you have $40,000 in debt. No, you know. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm $155,000 in debt because of spirit loans and credit cards and cars. And how much of that's owed on the car? On the car, it's about, I have $14,000 left on my loan.

Okay. And is this all of the family debt, and you're assuming you're going to get it all if there's a divorce? Correct. Why would he not get most of it's in school, and I... It was on you. Right. Okay.

All right. And I feel, I don't feel, you know, I don't, I really don't feel like I can depend on him. Right. I'll just put it that way. Yeah, that's probably reasonable. I'm taking responsibility of it, and I'm not scared. Do you have children? I do.

I have one son who's seven years old. Seven. Are you family in the area? I currently live with my mom. Okay. All right. Well, the great news is that as a nurse, the opportunity abounds. And if you're going to go back to school, you would pay cash for it as you go.

It would be the only way you would do that. And I would wait at least a year. I'd like for you to get well on your way to getting out of debt number one number two if this ends in a divorce get that behind you or if it ends in a reconciliation get that behind you because you'll be better you're going to be in a better place to make that decision at that point so for right now i'm going to push pause on school and get the relationship stuff um closed up one way or the other. Either way is fine with me.

Obviously, we'd all be better if we reconciled. But if he's not going to be responsible and you're through, then that's where we are. Then, of course, you can also, during this time, work like a crazy person. Because the other beautiful thing about being a nurse is you can pick up stuff like ER and other stuff and catch all kinds of overtime. And if mom can watch Junior for a little bit, I know you need to be there for him right now in the middle of a separation or a divorce. And I need you to make an extra 20 grand this year to throw at this debt in addition to what you were going to throw at it. When you start getting that kind of progress and you get settled into the rhythm of your new life, then you can decide whether you go back to school.

But when you do, make sure you pay cash for it or don't go. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We're glad you are here. Did you know that 78% of the people in our country live paycheck to paycheck? That means most of the people on your street have too much month left at the end of the money. You know, if you're tired of being stressed out about money, you don't have to live like that. You can win.

People do it every day. You can get control of your money. You just need the right plan. Financial Peace University is our step-by-step class that will show you not only how to get on a written plan, a budget, not only how to get out of debt, not only how to increase your generosity, but also how to build wealth. More people have become millionaires using this system than any other. Yeah. In fact, the average family pays off $5,300 in debt and saves $2,700 in the first 90 days. About 5 million people have been through this class. Check it out. Financial Peace University, DaveRamsey.com. Find a class near you or call customer care.

They'll help you at 888-22-PEACE, 888-227-3223. Sarah is in Des Moines, Iowa. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I'm calling because I have just started to look into the Dave Ramsey program, and I've created my budget, and I'm trying to get my fiancé on board with it. He's somewhat on board, but he's not all the way. But my question is, is how do we work on baby step two of paying off all of our debt while also trying to cash flow a wedding? Okay, cool. So how much debt do you have personally? Well, our finances are all together.

No, they're not together. You're not married. Okay, just me. I have about $11,000 in credit card debt. Okay, and that's it? No. I have a $5,000 car, and I have about $44,700 in student loans. Okay, cool. And what does he have? He has only a car of $11,400. Okay. And what is his income? His income is about $38,000. And what is your

income? About $33,000. And when are you wanting to get married? When's the wedding? September 29th next year. Okay, so you've got 12 months. Good. Okay, so you are not going to be 100% debt-free and pay cash for a wedding between the two of you with that income and those debts. Yes.

But we would like to do our best. Exactly. Oh, I didn't want you to do poorly. I just wanted you to just observing that mathematically we're not going to knock all of that out. So given that that's the situation, we need to have a modest wedding. Would you agree with that? Yes. Okay. Which we do have help from his parents and my parents.

Oh, good. How much are they chipping in? Well, his parents are paying for the catering and the reception venue, which is a huge chunk. That's most of it. Yeah. And then the venue is free. We're getting married at the Capitol grounds. So that's free.

Good. And then my parents paid for the dress, and then they are paying also for the limited free alcohol that will be there. Okay. Phenomenal. Good. And so what do you guys need to put in to add to this? I'm hoping to stay around $8,000. For what?

For decorations, renting things like for the linens and stuff like that, and flowers. Do you think that's too much? Yeah, I've done two really, really nice weddings with two daughters who liked really nice things. And, I mean, you've got the big dog in the wedding is the reception, usually, the typical wedding. It's at least 50% of your budget, usually. The dress and, you know, the camera,

the venues usually aren't high and the preacher's not usually that much. No, our friend is actually doing it. Great. So we've got, generally speaking, really, you've got the big things covered here. Yeah, you're probably a little rich just for linens. A lot of people have a really nice wedding, the whole wedding for $10,000. Okay. And the national average is less than than 30 okay for and that includes that

includes like princess diana type weddings okay i mean you know yeah right so um my mom always says i have um champagne taste with a beer budget yeah well i kind of me too that's how i went broke so so if i'm you it's not a big deal but i'm going to back that down in the spirit of we want to get out of debt. So I'm going to just make up a number. You guys can adjust it. You're adults. You and your fiancé talk about it, okay? And we're both handy.

I like to make good things. So I'm going to say let them cover the stuff they're covering, and you put in 5K. I just made that number up, okay? Okay. You could change it. You could make it four. You could make it. I just made that number up, okay? Okay. You could change it. You could make it four. You could make it eight. You can change it later, okay?

Okay. But whatever we do, I'm going to put that in the bank first. Okay. Before you start your total money makeover. Okay. I'm just going to go ahead and bank five grand between the two of you. And I want you to do that in like... So you would say to save up for the wedding and then start paying.

And I want you to do that in like two months. Okay, perfect. Like two months. I want it fast. By Christmas? Yeah, we can do that. Okay. And then we're going to start the debt snowball.

Each individually. Do not run your money together until you're married. I know you said you were. It's a bad idea. It's bad for your budding engaged relationship. It's really bad legally because if something, God forbid, happens, and believe me, I've been coaching folks for 30 years, and I see things happen that aren't nice, okay?

And it's stuff like a car wreck or something weird, okay? And all kinds of stuff happens. And if he has paid off a bunch of your debt and you're not married it's it's it's a problem and that's really what's setting up here so um the the other way you could do this since you've got a lot more than he's got is you could just attack your debt snowball and he could build up the five grand okay i just don't want to make him pay for that all. Well, in a sense, he's not, because the day we get married, it's all combined. And so he's not paying for it. We're paying for it.

Okay. As long as it combines on September 29th, there's no you paid for it, I paid for it. Okay. Because it's our money at that point, right? Yes. Because here's the thing. If he pays off the $11,000, he should be debt free. Yes.

And you guys ought to have the wedding. And then we got you to deal with when y'all get home from the honeymoon. Okay. Because you're still going to have Sally Mae moving in your spare bedroom. Right. Well, we already do. Yeah, I know. But I mean, she's still going to be there when you get home from the honeymoon.

We got to give her eviction notice over the next year or two. But we're hoping. Yeah. The thing is, just lay out a year or two. We're hoping. Yeah. The thing is, just lay out a plan that both of you agree to. Okay. But please don't want him paying your debts. Okay. It gets weird.

Okay. I absolutely – I didn't see it like that. It's just possible downside is all there and upside is very little. If you get to the point that he has extra money, the wedding's covered and he's debt free and he wants to pay on your debts, just pile up a big pile of cash and on September the 30th write checks towards your debt. Okay.

But then if something, God forbid, happened, everything's still separated between now and then. Okay. So cool. Cool. Congratulations. I'm going to send you a wedding gift. It's called the book The Total Money Makeover. Hold on. Kelly's going to pick up and we'll send that out to you. Cool. Congratulations. I'm going to send you a wedding gift. It's called the book The Total Money Makeover. Hold on. Kelly's going to pick up and we'll send that out to you.

Very cool stuff. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jill is on Facebook. Dave, when you started your company, did you borrow money for startup expenses? No, Jill, I don't borrow money. Does this sound familiar? I don't borrow money. Does this sound familiar? I don't borrow money. No, I didn't.

I started on a card table in my living room, and I did some counseling sessions. And I got paid a little bit for doing some speaking, and that paid for the printing. And we launched a thing called Life After Debt with an overhead projector and a bad suit. And it was a class that became Financial Peace University. And every time we made a little money, we bought a little bit more stuff and grew the company a little bit. We grew it 100% organically, which all that means is the money we made we put back into the company after we ate a little bit of food and paid a little bit of light bills. And we just poured it back into the company, poured it back into the company,

poured it back into the company. But we never borrowed money, which means that some things we wanted to do, we weren't able to do. And you know what that did? It protected us from doing some stupid stuff, because some stuff we wanted to do that we didn't have the money to do was stupid stuff. And if you do something stupid and you pay cash for it,

it doesn't hurt near as much as if you do something stupid and then get to pay payments on stupid. And in business, you're going to do some stupid stuff. In business, 90% of your ideas suck. You survive and make all your money on 10% of your ideas, and you don't know which ones they are. Don't borrow money in business. Oh, my goodness, no. So that answers your question. No, I did not borrow money for startup expenses.

No, I've never borrowed a dime on this business ever since we started. Not once. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Blake, Chief Production Officer for the show. And here's a little tip for 2018. Go download our revamped Dave Ramsey Show app from the App Store. We're always listening to your feedback and adding new features to make it even better. Check it out.