The Ramsey Show - App - Celebrate the Milestones to Help You Stay Focused (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 5, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Starting off this hour is Green Bay, Wisconsin. Virginia's calling.

Hi, Virginia. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So I had seen a video of yours talking about how you don't need a credit score

and just pay cash for what you want. My problem is that I have about $10,000 in collection. Most of it is medical. So I'm wondering if I can just leave the credit alone and just pay cash for everything along with, obviously, my active debt, or how would you go about that? You have active debt in addition to the $10,000 in medical? Correct, in collection.

The medical is in collections? Correct. The active debt is not in collections, and how much of that do you have there? It's about $2,000. Good, okay. And what's your household income? My boyfriend and I together, we make about $70,000. Okay.

Who has the debt? Me. Okay. What do you make? I make $30,000 a year. Okay. All right. And how old is the $10,000 in debt?

It's about a year. Okay. And have you got health insurance in place now? Yes. Okay, good. All right. Well, what I would do is work two different debt snowballs. I'd leave the medical alone.

It's sitting there now. You're not paying any payments on it now, right? No. Okay. And I'd clear the $2,000 first because you are paying payments on that. And let's get that cleared up as fast as you possibly can. And then with the medical, what I would do is begin to make them some offers to settle it as you can save some money. You probably can settle this for $0.25 to $0.50 on the dollar.

Okay. Somewhere around $2,500 to $ to 5000 dollars will probably clear this and you need to clear it not because of your credit score but because they're going to sue you okay if you don't pay it and then they're going to come take part of your check and you don't want you don't want this chasing you around for the rest of your life. Right. Plus, they actually extended medical care to you, and you owe them money from a moral standpoint. So what I'm going to do is say, hey, I'm a single lady. I make $30,000 a year.

These are all true statements. What's the largest one of the deaths of the 10,000? I believe it's about $5,000. Okay. You call them up and you go, I have $2,742 saved when you do. That's all I've got. If you'll take that as settlement for this $5,000, I'll give it to you today. Oh, we'll take that and then payments. No, that wasn't what I said.

What I said was, I will give you that as settlement today. give it to you today oh we'll take that and then payments no that wasn't what i said what i said was i will give you that as settlement today but it wipes the debt out we won't do that well then you get no money and you begin this negotiating back and forth back and forth back and forth and finally you settle on a number when you settle on a number of course you have to have the money to negotiate that so you're going to save up that money, right? And what I do is clear off the little one first. Clear off the $2,000 and get that out of the way. But then whatever your smallest medical debt is, clear it off first. What's the little one?

The little one is about $300. Okay. Yeah, so you probably just pay that one. After you get the $2,000 paid, just reach over and pay that one on your budget, okay? And that one's done, because it's not big enough to screw around with, you know? And then we're going to go on to the next one, and then we're going to go on to the next one. And as you get to one that's too big, then just offer them $0.50 or $0.25 on the dollar, as long as you have the money to do that.

So you have to have saved up the money to have the conversation. Are you following this? Yes. Okay. Then once you haggle with them, you're going to go back and forth for weeks. It's not going to happen in two phone calls. Okay. That sounds like fun.

It's going to be a blast, but it's going to save you about five grand. Okay. It's worth, you know, not a bad part-time job is one way of looking at it and so um it's an ugly part-time job that's going to make you five thousand dollars or so and or you can just save up and pay for it i don't care if you want to go the other way but if you want to if you want to argue with them you can probably get them down because they you know i'm a single lady i make thirty thousand dollars year. I don't have money after I buy food. This is your pitch.

When I buy food and lights, I don't have any money left. And so if you want some money, I've got some right now, and I will settle this with you. Now, two rules. Once you get them to agree to the number and you have the money in the account before you do that, rule number one is do not send them any money unless you have this in writing if it's not in writing it never happened they will have the weirdest memory that your conversation never happened if you do not have it in writing you understand me they lie yes okay so get it in writing number two once you settle the deal we'll just take your checking account information and draft your checking account

oh no no no no no no no no no because they'll clean out everything that's in there and then you won't be able to pay rent or buy your food or something okay now you do not give them electronic access to your main checking account because they'll clean you out. So you can either do a prepaid Visa card and just put the exact amount on there and let them take it out of that and then close that one and then go get another prepaid Visa card and do another one. Or you can wire them the money. Or you can go over there and take them a check. You're in Green Bay. It's not that big, you know.

And just sit there with them and get it in writing and hand them a check. Okay. Will that bill then come off of my credit report? Yep. It'll show a bad debt, which it is today. It's a bad debt that has been settled. Okay.

And so it will leave a black mark, I mean a gray mark, but it's not a black mark. Today it's a black mark, I mean a gray mark, but it's not a black mark. Today it's a black mark. You're not getting anything with bad debt on there. You're not going to get a house. You're not going to get anything with your name on it with outstanding collections that are bad debt. So you've got to clean them up. But also just from a practical standpoint,

they're just going to bug the crud out of you for the rest of your life, and you need to clean it up. So get yourself on a real tight budget and start working it through. Let's get rid of the $2,000 active debt, then pay off the $300 one, and then let's start the process of negotiating with the rest of the $9,700 worth or so, of which $5,000 is one of them. Save up a little, settle in writing, no electronic access to your checking account. Save up a little, settle, in writing, no electronic access to your checking account.

And you just work your way down that list of those old bad debts. And that's the best way to work through it. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If you want to talk, we are here. We're glad you're with us. We appreciate you hanging out with Real Radio, with Satellite Radio, and with podcasts. There's about 15 million of you there right now. Thanks for hanging out with us.

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years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money.

It's a free call. Kyle is with us in Tulsa. Hi, Kyle. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, David. Great to be talking with you. Sure. What's up?

Yeah. Me and my girlfriend have been going out for a little over a year now, and she has two kids. And we've talked about marriage a little bit, and I'm trying to figure out. I have debt on my own, so I'm trying to figure out how to prepare my life, my future. That way they can have a good future, too, and make sure everything works out. Okay. You said you have debt. Is that what you said?

Yeah, I have. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Okay. How much debt do you have? It's about $17,000. Okay. And how much debt does she have?

She has roughly about the same. She has a car. And what does she make? She makes $ about the same. She has a car. And what does she make? She makes $25 a year. What do you make? The same, yeah. We both work at the same place. You both make $25?

Yeah. So if you were married, you'd have a $50,000 income with $34,000 worth of debt. Did I understand that right? Yes. Okay. And when would you be talking about getting married um i'm not sure i mean um that's that's kind of what's up in the air right now i'm just yeah just trying to think through it okay well i mean um the main thing is not whether or not you have debt it's whether or not you have debt. It's whether or not you are in agreement on how you're going to handle money, meaning that we're going to be in agreement that we're both going to attack this debt with a vengeance, and we're going to get rid of it so that we can build wealth, so that we can have a great retirement, and these kids can go to college and so on.

How old are you? I'm 25. How old is she? 22. And she has two kids. What ages? Yeah. Four-year-old and a six-month-old.

And a six-month-old. Okay. Yes. So she's recently gone through a divorce. Yeah. Or a breakup. Yeah. It's kind of messy. Okay. All right. Well, what I would tell you is this. You want to make sure that the two of you sit down with a pastor

and a marriage counselor and get some detailed, in-depth family counseling because you're going to be an instant dad. Yeah. And these little kids don't come with a training manual. Yes. And so, you know, you want to make sure that you're going to be able to speak into the raising of these kids. And if mama bear rises up and says you're not able to speak to that, and yet you're paying the bills and living and married and so forth, that's going to cause problems in your marriage so you know the management and the the encouragement and the discipline and the nurturing of the kids um can become a real

sticking point uh when they in a blended family and so you want to make sure that you guys have worked all of that through and that you've worked through the money decisions we're going to stay out of debt we're going to save and invest we're going to get out get rid of this debt we're going to be on a budget together we're going to have a plan here's the reason i'm bringing that up the data that we have from doing this for 30 years is the number one cause of divorce in north america today's money fights and money problems There are four things a young couple need to be in agreement on, and if they're in agreement on these four things, the data points tell us they have a high success rate in their marriage,

a very high success rate. Number one is money. Number two is kids. Number three is money. Number two is kids. Number three is religion. And number four is dealing with the in-laws, the extended family, because there's crazy in every family, and you've got to know how to deal with it. Okay? Oh, yeah.

And so if you guys can, the two of you can, in your pre-marriage counseling, get a real flow chart, a real template on how to deal with the kids that you're both going to be in agreement. You're going to love those kids like they're your own, and you're going to be consequently speaking into their nurture and their discipline as if you were their biological dad. Right. And you're going to set that plate up. You're going to put that on the plate ahead of time. The same thing with the money. We're going to combine our money.

We're going to be in agreement on where we're going with the money. We're going to be in agreement on our religious affiliations. We're going to be in agreement on dealing with in-laws. Because, in other words, you can't let mother-in-law get between you, as an example. That kind of thing happens all the time if you can get those four areas covered all the data tells us you have about a 90 success ratio with your marriage one of those four things is where almost everyone trips up and you got two of them right now that are bothersome so you really need to address them you have a very young fiance with very young children recently coming out of a toxic situation danger danger yeah okay and so take your time and i'm

not saying you're not not to love the woman i'm not saying she's not a great woman she probably is all that's fine but just take your time get detailed, in-depth pre-marriage coaching and counseling. Okay. And by the way, people that do in-depth pre-marriage counseling have a very high success rate of marriage. All right. Because good marriage counseling done ahead of time, good pre-marriage counseling, will keep a bad marriage from happening. Right.

It'll ruin it. It'll ruin the engagement if it's good stuff, if the engagement needs to be ruined. And if there's too much toxicity and you're not going to survive anyway, it'll blow it up. And that's what you want to do. I mean, tough, tough discussions. You want to have those before you get married, not after. I mean, marriage is tough enough when you've got everything lined up. But when it's not lined up, oh, my goodness, can you have a mess.

So, hey, there you go. Thanks for joining us. Taylor is with us in Seattle. Hi, Taylor. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So I just wanted to get some advice. So I am a nurse. I've tried different sectors of nursing and have finally found what I'm passionate about, and I love it. The only problem with it is that now I want to become a doctor in that field because I am loving it so much. The deterrent being I don't want to be $200,000 in debt for medical school. Well, that would be a good idea.

Well, yeah, and the only advice I'm getting from people is you either go $200,000, $250,000 in debt, or you join the military. um so my question for you is do you know of a better way to do it and do you think it's worth it to go that much in debt for a career you know will i where i will make 250 to 300 000 a year i can't quite get my head around what the right well you may you may you may not too um we don't have control over that uh the only way that works is if it works and sometimes it doesn't work so no i don't ever tell people to go into debt ever um not not even for that so what would i do if i were in your shoes military is an option uh the second thing i would look at is the md phd programs where you get a fellowship and you go to work for a university basically uh for instance duke has one of those so there's they're hard to get into but if you can find one of them and get

in if you're basically the the premises is that you become an employee of the university working there and then the school is free and um okay so but your income drops to near nothing uh the in your case probably the last one is the best one, is I would look for one of the big hospital companies to fund it. And in return, you would have to agree to work for them for a certain number of years. And they're recruiting heavily docs, especially going into some of the underserved areas. And so you might end up working a rural hospital or something that wouldn't be your first choice for three years after school, but then they would give it to you free.

There's a payback. It's kind of an indentured servant plan, if you will. But check out that. That's what I would look into. Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Daryl and Sally are with us from South Carolina. Hey, guys, how are you? Well, how are you? Better than we deserve. I hear you, man.

Thanks for visiting. How can I help today? Well, I had a question. We are debt-free. Yay! Yay! Thanks to your program and you. And we're having trouble staying on track for becoming millionaires.

Okay. Now that we're debt-free and we want to be able to save, save, and give. Okay. So, you're not investing? We are. We have our 15% and our 401ks. I work part-time now to take care of our 15-year-old. Okay.

All right. And, Daryl, you're still working full-time or are you retiring? I am. Okay. All right. And so how are you having trouble staying on track? What are you, you're just spending money or what do you mean? You don't have any payments. Sticking you mean? You don't have any payments.

Sticking to the budget, don't have any payments, sticking to the budget and don't know if it's possible for us to become millionaires at this stage. I'm a little older, 58.

He's 55, so. Okay. And what's your household income? About $50,000. Okay. 55. And how much do you have saved? In cash, equity about $216,000. Okay. $55,000. And how much do you have saved? In cash equity, about $216,000.

Okay. Yeah, you're on your way. You're going to be fine. $216,000 in your 401k? Combination. 401k and Roth IRA. If that's invested like we teach in good growth stock mutual funds, it should double about every seven years.

So that means when you're 65, that should be worth about 400. And then when you're 72, if you don't add anything to it, and when you're 72, that would be worth about 800. And your house, of course, is going up in value during that time that we're talking about as well. So I predict if you don't do anything, you'll probably be millionaires by the time you're 70 if we continue to work it no if you just let the money that's in there continue to sit there and grow and you get your in your house is paid

off and you own it right yes what's it worth uh roughly between 150 160 160. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, so basically out of a million, you've currently got about 380 or so, okay? Yes. Something like that. So you're about a third of the way there. And if you just consider that's going to double if you don't do anything else every seven years. Okay. So it'll double once from 350 to seven and double again from seven to 1.5 by the time you're 72, give or take. So you're fine. Uh, but if you want to do more, you can do more.

So, um, and I would, I would do more. I would invest some more and, uh, you got the 15% of your income going in. So that's another 7,500 a year on top of what we're talking about, continuing to go into the 401k if you want to crank that up a little bit now that the house is paid for you can you can max that out put the most that they allow you to put in and max out a couple of roth iras the thing i have found is if i can do stuff that is kind of on autopilot and doesn't require my force of will to create discipline it helps me. And so I just put all kinds of stuff just drafting out of my checking account,

going straight into investments. And then I don't think about it. I just run the house and whatever's left in there. And it's like, you know, all that money went over there to that mutual fund and into those retirement accounts. And then I just make it, you know, I do the budget on whatever's left over. That helps me because it's kind of on autopilot. The second thing you should do is you need to make sure that you're setting some milestones

that when you hit a certain point on different things that you do something to celebrate. You guys aren't celebrating. You're not spending any money on you. No, we're not. And you need to do some of that. And you need to go on a cruise or whatever. You know, whatever the thing is you've always wanted to do. You always wanted to buy one of those old cars.

Or you wanted to, I don't care what it is. But you need to go spend a little bit of money on you once you hit some of these marks. Because otherwise it just becomes a pure grind. And it's living like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and give like no one else and then that's the last thing make sure that your giving is done and it's done in a personal enough way that you see the people's lives changed it's good to give sometimes to an institution to your church and those kinds of things we do and um and i do too but i also want to do something occasionally where i just see somebody's life changed and uh we try to do that direct type thing and that keeps you

fired up too because that shows you the power of money when you've got it and it's in the hands of a generous person but if it just goes in a line item somewhere off in some company or some non-profit off in the distance you don't feel it. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. So that'll jazz you. Spend a little money on you. I'll jazz you when you hit some of these milestones.

And then I would just go ahead and max out your 401ks and your Roth IRAs right now. Do all of that. Sit down and do that. Does that help you? Yes, it does. Thanks for coming by. It's an honor to meet you, too. Appreciate you hanging out with us. All right, Shayla is with us in

Phoenix. Hi, Shayla. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. Well, first, I want to say I'm new to the community, recommended by some friends, and I've just been watching a few of your YouTubes, and I am welcoming the butt-kicking that I am getting, so thank you for that.

Well, when you're new, that's not necessary. We're nice to you when you're new. Oh, you know what? But I need it. When you're new, you kind of need it the most because you have a lot of just bad habits that need to be broken down quickly. So thank you for that. I'm calling because I'm just in a bit of a mess between me and my husband. We currently just kind of have our own debt issues.

His are a little bit more dramatic than mine. But really we're just trying to figure out, well, I'm trying to figure out kind of where we can start to kind of be the, like, the initiative and, you know, being able to. So how much debt do you have? Well, I'll start with mine. I know I have about $8,000 in credit card debt, which is crazy because I had little to no credit card debt all my life in the last couple of years. What else? So I have that. What else? So I have that. What else?

And then IRS. I work for myself, so just not really withholding. We have not got time for you to give me an explanation on every one of them. Just tell me how much debt you've got, okay? Okay, so I think I have the $9,000 that I owe for IRS. Okay, who else? And then I have a $30,000 car loan. Okay, and what else?

That I have. And then that's it for me. Okay, what about husband? What about your husband? He is kind of iffy right now, but I know he has about $16,000 or so in tax debt, as well as I think just like a few things like medical bills i wouldn't say it was it's any more than about like five or six thousand he just recently did bankruptcy what

about a car most of that's gone he did a bankruptcy car note yeah he did a bankruptcy he had tons of debt before then it was really really bad okay so uh it took a lot of the IRS debt away, but he still was left with some that couldn't go in. So what's your household income? So I make $92,000, and he's at $46,000. Okay. All right. And, well, I think the first thing I'm going to have you do is to sit down together and say, are we sick of this?

Both of you. I know you are. I know you are. But are we sick of this? You just of both of you i know you are i know you are but are we are we sick of this you just went through a bankruptcy and then i want you to combine all your money and combine your incomes and you're married and combine all of your debts and just say okay we have 16 plus nine that we owe the irs whoa that's scary we have credit cards that need to be cut up we have a really expensive car and we have got to sit down and clean this dadgum mess up now you can because you make 138 000 a year between the

two of you and can you clean up let's see 30 40 50 60 70 000 in debt yeah you can do that okay but you know it's going to take you a year and a half, two years. You're going to be on a written budget. You're going to cut up your credit cards. You quit going to restaurants. And we are sick and tired of being broke. We make over $100,000 a year, and we're broke and going through bankruptcy and owe the IRS. Man, yeah.

Get disgusted with yourself, kiddo. You don't need me to kick your butt. You can kick your own. Just get disgusted with yourself. Get sick and tired of being sick and tired. Hold on. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, to help you get this going. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Jeff is in Bakersfield, California.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Jeff. How are you? Good, Dave. Thank you for taking my phone call. Sure. What's up? Well, I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction. My wife and I are currently on baby step number seven.

Our current home that we live in is paid for, and our rental house is also paid for. But I think we're probably going to be moving out of state here in the next two years. And so we're thinking about maybe selling our rental house right now and that's we're probably net about 170 175 for that home um i guess my question is what do we do with that money in the short term um i've always been told that you know you don't want to put money into mutual funds unless you have four to five years' time frame of when you actually need the money. How do you feel about that? That's what I tell people as well, because a five-year mark,

about 90% of the five-year periods have made money. Only about 65% of the three-year periods have made money. Now, the difference in your position is you've done a really good job with your money, so you've built a position of wealth. And so how much is in your 401Ks and your nest egg? We have probably $650,000 in our 401. And what's the equity in your home? What's your home worth? The one I live in is probably $400,000 in our 401. And what's the equity in your home? What's your home worth?

The one I live in is probably $400,000. Okay. So you've got a net worth of over a million dollars. Okay. And your household income is north of six figures, isn't it? Yeah. And how old are you, 45? Yes.

Almost like I've done this before. Okay. Well done. I mean, you hit the marks man you're perfect well done proud of you so what is your household income uh 175 yeah okay a little even better than i projected okay great good for you so here's the thing when you place 170 in a one percent money market for two years, you will make nothing on it, obviously. If you made 10% on it for two years in a mutual fund, you would have made $34,000.

Okay? Okay. If the mutual fund went down 10% a year for two years, which would be a highly unusual two consecutive years of that kind of loss in the market, like historically almost never happens, okay, then you would lose $34,000. Right. None of these are deal breakers for you. You have a million-dollar net worth, you make $175,000, $34,000 doesn't change your life,

okay? Right. So all of that said, too, that puts you in a position more like I would be in personally if I were going to do this. I'm probably going to put some of that money in a mutual fund, and just because I can't stand for it to all sit there at 1%, knowing that I'm taking some risk, but I'm probably not taking risk that's going to completely cripple my financial plan. Okay.

You know, even if you, let's say, pray tell, had the worst possible scenario and you lost the entire amount of money, it does not ruin your life. It'd be horrible. I'm not suggesting you'd put it at risk at the blackjack table okay i'm not suggesting that i wouldn't do that but my point is is that you are in a position to accept some volatility on this 170 000 in order to try to get a little bit right or better rate of return so if i'm in your shoes i'm probably throwing like 70 in a money market i'm probably popping 100 in a growth and income that's got a long, stable track record.

You know, that's a boring type mutual fund. Super boring, in other words. That kind of a thing. And I was trying to thumb through here and look. I've got one fund that I own that's had a 12.07% average rate of return since 1934. But here's the interesting part for our discussion. Out of those 83 years 15 times it was down the rest of the time it was up so that's called a growth and income fund and

that's a very stable fund okay and so you know you could put 100 grand in that and you'll probably make something you might lose a little but you probably won't you know so i'm doing that and you'll probably make something you might lose a little but you probably won't you know so i'm doing that and even if you do you're okay that's the way i would analyze it is but if you call me up and you go i have 170 000 to my name this means whether i get to buy my next home or not and i make uh 65 000 a year i would say money market say money market. You can't stand the risk. Okay. You see the difference? Sure, absolutely.

But you could do either one. You can do either one. Go either way, all in a money market or all in a mutual fund because you can handle the risk. Either way, you're fine. It's just what's going to make you, you know, what's going to be fun. But the point is, it's a ratio thing in your overall net worth because you've done such a great job. Well done, millionaire. Another everyday millionaire calling in here on the air.

Todd is with us in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Hey, Todd, how are you? How are you doing, Mr. Ramsey? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Okay, I've been listening to your program for a couple of years now and I think I've been doing very well. I'm pretty much out of debt. I just sold my house. I got about $40,000 of equity. My question is, what do I do with the equity?

Why did you sell your house? I need a bigger house. Me and my wife had twins. We have two other kids. Now we have four kids in the house. We needed a four-bedroom. So you said you're pretty much out of that. What does pretty much mean?

I have a vehicle, $15,000 dollars i owe on it but there's my question my question is what do i do with my equity what's your household income it's not 80 okay um you can do what you want to do you need to pay the truck off and put less down on the house which means you're going to be buying less house because i don't want you to take out more than a 15 year loan where the payment's more than a fourth of your take-home pay. You've probably heard me say that. Or you can sell the truck and put more down on the house because the house is more important

than the truck. Well, it's our main vehicle, so we can't really, unless I sell it and buy something cash like you talked about. But yeah, I can do that. What's more important? I mean, it's up to you. Putting more down on the house or driving that truck? It's up to you.

But, I mean, you're trying to move up in-house, and with $40,000 down in Baton Rouge, you can get a pretty decent house, an $80,000 income. You can get a decent house on a 15-year fixed rate where the payment is no more than a fourth of your income. Or you can put $25,000 down, you can get a decent house on a 15-year fixed rate where the payment is no more than a fourth of your income. Or you can put $25,000 down, pay off your truck. But the truck debt's got to go. It's either gone because you sold it or it's gone because you paid it off.

No way I'm keeping that truck debt. I rode a bicycle before I had a debt-gum car payment again. Absolutely ridiculous. Nathan is on Instagram. Why do you think all debt is bad? Isn't some debt okay, like a house or student loans? Nathan, when you ask a question that is actually a statement, that's called a passive aggressive question. So you weren't really asking a question. You were just saying you think all debt is not bad and I'm wrong. That's the truth of your statement.

Now, so you and I will now argue. Are you ready? Oh, it's fun. So here's the thing. It's not necessarily what dave ramsey thinks i happen to be the aggregator of the information meaning i've gathered the information over 30 years of walking with people with millionaires and billionaires and broke people so i have a lot of data a whole lot more than your broke brother-in-law with his opinion or the idiot you were playing golf with yesterday and his opinion.

Our data says that the shortest direction, the shortest distance between you and wealth is having no debt. Our data comes from researching millionaires in detail, formal research projects. Having had 5 million families go through Financial Peace University. Having answered 15 hours of questions on this show for coming up on 30 years now. Having read the Bible and what it says about money. And there's no time in there that it says student loans are a good idea or a mortgage is a good idea. So get out of debt. If you hate it, and I'm wrong, you can go back in debt. But it's the shortest distance to wealth and to you being more generous.

That's why I hate debt. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about a product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything that is mentioned during this episode in the podcast show notes section. Thanks for listening.