The Ramsey Show - App - Changing Self-Destructive Behavior Patterns (Hour 1)

Episode Date: May 15, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money. It is a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Brian is in Lake of the Ozarks. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Brian. Thank you, Dave, and I appreciate you taking my call. Sure. What's up? Okay, so me and my wife you taking my call. Sure. What's up? Okay, so me and my wife are just starting the baby steps. I bought your book, The Total Money Makeover, and she doesn't want to use the credit cards anymore, she said, but she's not comfortable canceling them until she sees that we can stick to our budget for a month or two,

is there anything that I can, any tip to reassure her on going ahead and canceling them, or what would you suggest? I would stick to my budget for a month or two. Okay. How long have you guys been married? We've been married about seven years. We have four kids and and um and and sometimes when i bring sharon a new idea she wonders if i'm gonna stick with it if i'm scheming and scamming might that be the case at your house yes i've not been very good i've made

a mistake and i've just you know given her all the money for the seven years and she's taking care of all the financial things. So now I'm trying to get involved. So now the two of you working together on a budget is a brand-new experience, and she wants to make sure that this is not a fad. Yes, sir. That's fair. So you think I shouldn't push the issue to know we're going to cancel them all right now? I would say let's set a date that after three months of successfully working together and budgeting,

where we tell every dollar on the EveryDollar app what to do before the month begins, and we do a very close semblance of sticking to that. The first three months you don't stick to it because what happens is the first month is lousy. You're going to mess up. The second month is better. By the third month, you really do get it nailed lousy you're going to mess up second month's better by the third month you really do get it nailed down but you're going to stay with it you're going to you know push it through and you know but but the agreement is when we do that for three months we're cutting these stupid things up and we're closing the accounts yes sir yeah i think if you make that agreement then you you know you stick to your budget i i

you know it's not unreasonable now again we're going to put them in the drawer we're not going to touch them you know we're they're not going to be used they're not part of your system anymore right okay that that's today but the actual closing of the accounts permanently could be 90 days from today after you have had three successful budget cycles of the two of you working together, semi-successful. Successful in the first 90 days is you actually still are doing it. Yes.

You're going to mess up in the first 90 days because you suck at it. You're brand new. Right? Yes, sir. Yeah, but I mean, as long as she gives you that kind of grace, if she demands perfection for 90 days, that's not reasonable. But are we going to stick to it? Are we working a system where we both tell the money what to do then we don't then we stick to that contract neither one of us spend money off of budget

um because you know you might have a reputation of having spent some wild money in the past and she wants to see if the real you is now changed. Absolutely. I have. I've definitely spent more than her, so I think that's her concern. Yeah, she just, you know, all of a sudden you're a dadgum money genius, and you were the one who used to mess everything up. That's what's running through her head, right?

Yes, sir. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, so you've just got to earn the trust. That's all. And that's reasonable. That's a fair you just got to earn the trust. That's all. And that's reasonable. That's a fair thing for her to do for 90 days. But the point is, at the end of the day, we're not using the cards anymore. And after 90 days, we're going to close them.

And then you guys do stick to it. And let's see you make some progress and get some traction and start winning. You can do it, man. You can do it. I'm proud of you. Hey, thanks for calling in. Danielle is in Houston. Hi, Danielle. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey you. Hey, thanks for calling in. Danielle is in Houston. Hi, Danielle. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I'm new to this, and I just started your book, and I have three questions for you. I have a very high debt-to-income ratio, so I projected to pay off my debt in seven to ten years. So because of that, my three questions are, the first one is, should I continue to halt retirement savings? And should I continue to halt saving for a home? And then my last question is, should I consider staying in the, I'm in the government income-driven repayment, and I'm about three years in saying that in seven years I would have forgiveness.

Yeah, I think no one has gotten forgiveness. 128 people have gotten forgiveness. 28,000 have applied for it. It's not a plan I'm going to count on. So what is your debt? Student loans. I know. How much?

192. For what? Are you a doctor or a lawyer? A doctor of physical therapy. You've got PT. For 192 for what are you a doctor or a lawyer a doctor of physical therapy you got pt for 192 grand yes like paid double huh yeah it was a private school so it's very expensive yeah kind of ridiculous okay so what are you making 100 i'm making 70 and you have 192 and what other kind of debt have you got that's it i my car is paid for i don't use credit cards when did you graduate i've been using i graduated in april 2017 so i just recently got on your budget and following everything, and I did have credit card debt and all that stuff, and so I recently got on your plan and got all of that paid off.

What were you making before you graduated? Before I graduated? Mm-hmm. Oh, in school I wasn't making anything. Okay, so you're how old? I'm 28. Okay, so you were living off the student loans? Yes, sir. Okay. So you were living off the student loans? Yes, sir.

Okay. Okay. So you're not used to having a $70,000 income for very long. Correct. So let's put all of that on the debt and live on beans and rice. Seven to ten years is absurd. Okay. That's not okay.

I was estimating about $3,000 a month, and I just got a second job. I actually just found out yesterday that I got it. Good. So I'm starting on Friday. Great. I'm going to try to do an extra ten hours a week. On PT?

Doing PT? I'm actually a certified personal trainer, too, and it's a very nice gym. So actually, crazy enough, I really get paid about the same as what I'm making now. Great. Maybe even a little bit more. So what are you going to pick up, another $20,000? I'm hoping to do another 10 hours a week, and I'm going to get paid anywhere from $30 to $35 an hour.

So hopefully another $1,500 a month is what's the goal. Yeah, about $20,000. Okay. Yeah. All right. That's good. Okay. So now we're at $90,000.

And if we put $50,000 towards it, it's a four-year plan. $50,000 being? $50,000 out of $90,000 and you lived on $40,000. That's not bad at all. $200 divided by $50,000 is $ 50,000 out of 90 and you lived on 40. That's not bad at all. 200 divided by 50 is 4. Right. That gets you out of debt in four years. 50,000 a year.

4,000 bucks, 4,300 bucks a month, not 3,000 a month. And I think you can do better than that. So I'm not going to put you on a seven-year plan. I refuse. I'm going to put you on a three-and-a-half-year plan, and you're going to work as many hours as you can possibly work, and you're going to clean up this huge mistake you made, not becoming a PT but paying double to become a PT.

That was the mistake you made. So now you've got to clean it up. That's okay. You've got a good career ahead of you. You're going to be great. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. You know, I get asked all the time, at what age should I buy life insurance? Let me be clear.

If you have a family, if there are people depending on your income, now is the time to have term life insurance. I don't care if you're 20, 30, 40, 50, or whatever. Your age is less important than your financial situation. If you have debt and a lack of savings, it makes no sense to risk your family's financial well-being based on the cost of a term life policy. Term life rates are just plain cheap, even if you're not in perfect health.

And the best way to compare those rates is through Zander Insurance. Zander only sells the plans I recommend and shops among the top companies to find the best rates and the right coverage for you. Call 800-356-4282 or visit Zander.com. You got no excuse to put this off, folks. Bad things happen to people all the time, regardless of age. And it's your responsibility to deal with this. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. joining me this segment rachel cruz of the rachel Cruz Show, a video series on YouTube that is wildly popular and now a podcast series as well.

And a new one coming out this week. Hey, Rachel. Hi, thanks for having me on. Absolutely. So what are you guys covering in this week's show? Yes, this show is all about change and learning that in order to make your life better, if you're not happy with where you are, with your life and your money, you have to change.

But change is hard, right? You're comfortable in what you know, what you've been doing, even if it's bad money habits you're doing, it's still comfortable just to keep going, to have a complete paradigm shift on something, even as simple as if you don't have the money, don't buy it. But if you've been functioning in a different setting, changing that mindset, it's really hard, but it's necessary. So we walked through change and we have a great family on who

actually was on the Dave Ramsey show doing their debt-free scream. Debt kicking mom, that's her name on Instagram. She has this big Instagram following through their debt-free journey, but they paid off $77,000 in debt. But their change happened overnight. They had a quick change. It was one night. She talks about it on the show, but they were on vacation, and their credit cards were maxed out. And so she had to secretly call the bank the next morning and open up a new one just in order to continue down the vacation that they were on because they didn't have any money.

And that was the point they realized something has to change. And so they made that change pretty drastic. The next day they started things differently. So it's fun because people change at different paces. Some people, it's more of a process. They have to take a little bit at a time and others, it's quicker. It's overnight. But man, when you make a change, it's huge.

And then King Coleman comes on at the end, and we talk about changing your career, maybe if you're not happy with where you are, how to use the proximity principle to change your career path. Yeah, that's important. It is amazing to me, having taught this concept of changing your behavior to get a different result for 30 years, how many of us, me me included are engaged in something that's self-destructive and can't find the the the emotional willpower to change i mean it

obviously an extreme of that as an addict but short of that i mean just overeating or just overspending or just you know the the the fall back into a rut, an old destructive habit pattern is so easy to do. And it is so it is such an area of discipline to discipline your will to make that decision to change without. And that's what a guy called on the debt free screen that they said it's a manufactured emotion unless there's a crisis but if there's a crisis you know you've got to if you have a major health crisis and the doctor says if you keep eating that thing you're gonna die well you quit eating that thing it's pretty simple because i'm gonna die you know but if it's just

like well you know you should probably cut back on the you know then you don't the carbs yeah then you don't right i mean and so or most people don't sure and so these gentle suggestions of something uh and so changing our our changing a career it's amazing how hard it is someone offers you double the money how comfortable you are and you don't like the people you work for right you know how comfortable you are in the slop that you don't want to jump up out of the slop. And it's interesting because you pair with what you talk about on this show and I talk about on the Rachel Cruze show so much that with your money specifically, how it's so behavior driven, right? It's very little head knowledge. And so when you're deciding to change, it's almost like you're changing the person.

You're changing character qualities within you. And first off, that's hard to admit. It's hard to admit. I'm wrong. Like what I've been doing is not right. And I'm going to have to change something about myself. And so there's like this scary self-awareness aspect to it because it's so much bigger than just do a budget, do a budget.

You have to change who you are in a sense and how you're viewing things and the habits that come out of that, out of those actions. But it's man, it's spot on once you get it, though. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's a big deal. I'm inside, you know, just for you listeners. I'm so aware of that. Sometimes, well, Dave Ramsey's rude. Dave Ramsey's brutal. And it's like, I know I got to hit you hard enough to knock you off your same stuff you know i gotta do i gotta shake you shock you something enough to where you go dad gum you know i gotta stop and look at this and

i can't just have this gentle quiet intellectual discussion because it doesn't change anybody you know that doesn't that doesn't get you moving but the coach that's in your grill going get him you know that's that's the one that changed you know you're like oh okay wakes you up there's something there because the pain of where you are the pain of same has to uh you know exceed you have to be in enough pain there to somehow emotional pain whatever it is is just the results the pain of that financial order to change because nobody just naturally goes change i mean we're moving our 800 and almost 900 people uh in about two months and uh your husband winston is running the project building this building that we're moving into i was down there this morning and

i'm thinking as i'm walking through there how wonderful the building is all new furniture all new everything and yet it's going to be very hard for some people yeah emotionally to go i'm driving to a different place my parking spot my place i sit in church even if it's better like that's what's funny i tell a story on the show but it's true when i was pregnant with our first amelia i was pregnant over christmas she was born in april and so that christmas i was decorating the tree and i remember this like it was yesterday and i just started crying and when someone's like what's wrong and i was like like is this baby gonna be worth it like we've had five years of an incredible marriage we could do whatever we want like i was so sad

that it wasn't gonna be just me and winston anymore like this new baby's going to come around like i guess people have multiple kids so they must be worth it right like like this baby's going to be worth it right pregnancy cry but even like a blessing in your life a better thing which granted now i mean of course i see her i'm like i would have had her sooner but like she's so wonderful but but even if it's a good thing it's hard and so that's the crazy thing that walking people down a path with their money to get them in a better spot, it still can be very uncomfortable. Same thing with a career with Ken Coleman. Yes, that's right.

All of this is on the show this week. You're dealing with every bit of it, the video, the podcast, the Rachel Cruz show. And in just a few minutes, you're heading to the airport. Yes, I'll be flying to Dallas. We have our last money and marriage event for a while. this year because i'll be off the road yeah baby number three's coming in the fall in october yes yeah and this one's a boy for those of you that have not followed on instagram appropriately but yeah post it all over yeah uh yes so this will be our last one our last event for a while yeah and so So come out and see us in Dallas if you're there.

Last money and marriage event, you and Les Parrott tonight. There are still a few tickets available. It's basically sold out, but you can probably get a ticket still. Go to DaveRamsey.com or RachelCruz.com. It is tomorrow night, May the 16th in Dallas. And if you've not heard Rachel and Les talk about money and marriage, it's funny because they're both stand-up comedians to start with but it also really uh it is this whole thing of change again

it's it's the same subject matter i mean is there some things i can change in my marriage or in the way we handle money with our marriage or with our marriage the way we handle money and cannot can we look at that through a different lens get new information that moves us to a better place? That's right. Yeah, it's two fun topics to talk about for sure. It's ones that we keep seeing bubble up. I just did an interview with Time Magazine yesterday on the subject because, I mean, every study that's out is all on how money fights and money problems end up on the list of why people,

why marriages, you know, why they break up, why the divorce rate is what it is and the reasons behind that. And so it is, it's a pain point. And so taking those two subjects and figuring out how do you work together when maybe you are opposites, maybe you are a spender or a saver, maybe you are the nerd and free spirit, but you're together in this marriage unified. So how do you walk this journey well? What does that look like? So Les

does a fabulous job talking about communication styles and everything in marriage. And he's, like you said, just hilarious. It's so good. So, so good. I've heard this. This is, I think, our 20th event we've done. So I don't sit out as much in the audience anymore, but I'll hear bits and pieces, you know, and I still, like, I'll take down a note.

I'm like, oh, that's good. Like I still learn something 20 minutes later. So absolutely. Money and Marriage in Dallas tomorrow night, May the 16th. Rachel Cruz, let's pair it and be sure and tune into the Rachel Cruz show on YouTube and Facebook every other week. A new video episode drops in the podcast episodes air on Apple, Spotify, Google podcast every other week as well. Safe travels, Rachel.

Thank you. Thanks for having me on. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Kaylin is with us in Denver. Hi, Kaylin. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you and Kelly for taking my call. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help? I'm calling because I need to know, given our certain circumstances, if you would pause Baby Step two or not with us. We've been in it for a really long time, and we finally see the home stretch, and we found out that we're pregnant. Yay! Yes, I definitely would push pause on my baby steps if you're in one, two, or three. Even if it's like we were $307,000 in debt, and now we're at $27,000.

And our hospital cost will be 100% covered once I'm admitted. You still would hit pause? What's your household income? We're at $150,000 for both of us. Okay. So if you don't hit pause, when are you debt-free? If you don't hit pause, are you debt free if you don't hit pause when would you be debt free oh um it would be september and the baby's due in november okay and so if you do hit pause and you pile up twenty seven thousand dollars plus money right between now and the time the baby comes. When the baby comes home from the hospital, you are debt-free.

Because you write the checks and push play again, right? Yes. So what's this cost you? Once we're checked into the hospital, it's $150. No, no, no, no. You misunderstood. Oh. Pushing pause.

Oh, two months. Two months of feeling debt-free. Two months. Two months. Instead, we have $30,000 plus in a bank account when you come home, which gives you great comfort. How many babies have you had? I've had one, but I have six stepchildren, so seven altogether. This will be baby number eight.

Yeah. I'm talking about a pregnancy. Yeah, two. This is my second one. Your second one. Yeah, I'm talking about a pregnancy. Yeah, too. This is my second one. Your second one. You're an old pro now. Okay. And so, yeah, it's not as scary because you kind of know what's coming,

and all the unknowns are more knowns now and that kind of thing. Not all of them, but a lot of them are. I remember the first baby we had, we were so scared we couldn't breathe. We didn't. I mean, they don't come with a manual. What do you do with this thing so um then we found out they're really kind of hard to break so um uh but the uh uh you know you lighten up in other words because a little bit of knowledge goes a long way so you're okay if you go the other way i just love

the comfort for a mommy uh and for that matter a daddy, that's got a baby on the way, of not worrying about money. In case some little thing happened and you wanted $30,000. I like having that laying around. I'm not predicting anything. Yeah, that sounds nice. Not predicting anything bad, but, I mean, you would have way over $30,000. You'd probably have $40,000. You'd probably almost have your emergency fund done by november so um yeah and and here's the thing if you build it up like that and you and and you say okay

there's you know we got forty thousand dollars and it's september and you want to write the check you can write the check it's your money it. It's your decision. I don't care. I just I'm a big fan of babies. And I just want the comfort and the knowledge and the peace in the third trimester, which has very little

comfort or peace. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. That's where the suggestion comes from. I mean, it's not like you're dumb if you do it the other way, especially when you've got 100% coverage like you do. So, you know, let's just pile up some money, and gosh, if you just get bored with having so much money around,

go ahead and write the checks. I don't care. But I like the peace. That's why we tell people to do it. Brittany is with us in Eugene, Oregon. Hi, Brittany. How are you? Hey, Dave.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Very grateful for this opportunity to talk to you. You too. My husband and I are new to the Dave Ramsey system, and we've got a question about if we should sell our house to finish off, well, not finish the debt, but to get us further ahead in paying off our debt.

Do you like your house? We're okay. I mean, my husband's job is about an hour away, so we played with the idea of moving closer to that. But, I mean, he's been commuting. We're fine now. So not a solid yes and not a solid no. Exactly.

Just kind of, yeah. We still house poor. We, you know, in the end of the day, Ramsey's... You are house poor? We are. Oh, so what's your house payment? About almost $2,600 a month. And what is your household take-home pay a month?

Well, yearly we're about $145,000. So about almost $8,000. No, you ought to be getting home with $10,000. Not counting 401K. Are you doing your 401K out of that? No, we stopped all contributions. Okay, $120,000 is $10,000 a month. Are you doing your 401k out of that? No, we stopped all contributions. Okay, $120,000 is $10,000 a month.

You should be getting home with close to that. Huh, okay. Did you get a big tax refund? We do get a big tax refund. How big? We got about $9,000 this year. Ta-da. Okay, there it is.

There's your other $1,000 this year. Ta-da. Okay. There it is. There's your other $1,000 a month. So, yeah, you have $1,000 a month too much almost coming out of your check, right? So that gets you home with another $1,000. So let's adjust that to start with. You don't want to loan the government $9,000 and get no interest on it, and they give it back to you in September, and you act like Santa Claus lives in Washington, D.C. That's not a plan, okay? That's your money. You took a shirt back and got a refund. That's all a plan, okay? That's your money. You took a shirt back and got a refund. That's all it is, okay?

It's your money to start with. So you just gave them a free loan. So let's get that straightened out. Then your house payment is not really house poor. How much other debt have you got? Well, the total, we started about, my husband graduated school about three years ago. We started at $186,000. We are now down to about $87,000.

Not counting your house? Not counting the house. That's for physician assistant school. Oh, PA. Good. That's a good degree field. Okay. And so you're cleaning up the mess, and you've been doing it very rapidly.

And he's doing very well in his new career, but he's commuting an hour. Let's just say everything was going perfect in your life financially, and you had extra money. Would you not move closer to his work? We love the community here. My kid's school's here. We've kind of settled here. We could, you know, but we, like I said, played around with the idea to move closer just to have that extra time with Dad around. But so we're just very undecided.

We're really undecided. But we've got this fire in us. We want to get to those things. So here's the way I would answer the question. A fourth of your take-home pay approximately is going, a little bit more but not much, of appropriate take-home pay when adjusted is going to your house payment. So you're not house poor. Okay.

I commute seven minutes to work. And so I cannot relate. I would not do what you're doing. It would drive me bonkers. Okay. Now, people commute an hour all over America. Some people in L.A. live two exits from work, and it takes them an hour. Okay?

I get it. I know how it works out there in the real world, but I'm spoiled rotten, so I can't relate. So you've got to decide what you want to do. If I was spending two hours of my life a day just getting to work and back um instead of with my family your butt would be moving if i were married there so you got it because i'm just not doing that uh it's up to y'all but you so that's what i'm saying is my my opinion is biased So decide if you would move anyway. And if you would move anyway, then let's go ahead and sell the house. But I think you're making enough progress.

And if you wouldn't move anyway, then don't sell the house. Because you're making enough progress, you're going to be okay. Okay. The follow-up question to that is we're wanting to get as on track with your baby steps as possible and we're not we're on a 30-year fixed rather than a 15-year fix yeah you can just start paying it like a 15 when you get up to baby steps four five six okay if you want to stay if you want to stay there how much equity have y'all got we think about after we sold and paid all the fees, we could walk ways about 50 to 60.

Yeah. It's not worth moving unless you would move anyway. Okay. I'd stay, you know, but if you would move anyway because of the commute or because of the whatever, then I probably would. So that in your case, the numbers don't change that much. Thanks for calling in. This is the Dave Ramsey Show, Laura. Hi, how are you The Dave Ramsey Show, Laura.

Hi, how are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I am on baby step two, my husband and I, and we have about $13,500 left to pay off. We're down to two final credit cards. I'm wondering on that one that we're doing the snowball approach and the one that has the higher balance, I'm wondering if it would be worth it to do a balance transfer onto a card that offers 0% APR for 12 months.

How much have you paid off already? About $10,000. How long did that take? We got started last July. Nine months? We were kind of out of work. Okay, so how long do you propose it's going to take you to pay off $13,000? I've run a budget and we're looking at nine more months okay maybe eight we're doing we have some side business so hoping to throw some of that at it as well good good and how much

is the balance on the high interest rate card uh eighty five hundred dollars okay and um okay uh and so what is the interest rate on the card now it's uh about 15 last time i checked hopefully they haven't raised that at all okay and we pay about 200 towards it every month and 100 of that is going to interest right now okay a balance transfer will save you somewhere in the neighborhood of four to five hundred dollars okay over the scope of your nine months okay something like that not maybe between let's say three and five hundred but probably between four and five hundred bucks so it's okay to do that okay but be very careful because the trick of the balance transfer is you emotionally feel like you did something. You didn't.

$400 does not solve a $13,000 problem. What solves a $13,000 problem is the fact that you have already gotten your act together, you are on a budget, and you are aggressively attacking this debt. That is what's making the debt go away, not a $400

savings. You follow me? Yes. So it's kind of like you stick your finger in the air and go whoopee no big deal yeah okay because you didn't do anything the danger is you feel like oh i'm sophisticated now i don't have to work at this anymore no that'll kill your butt okay you did not do anything $400. A handful of happy meals. That's it. Okay? It's okay to do it. And if you hand me $400, I'll put it in my pocket.

Okay? Don't misunderstand. That's a lot of money. But it's not the secret sauce. The secret sauce is Laura. You're the answer to the equation. You follow me? I do.

Because mathematically, $14,000 is going away in nine months. $400 is what we're having a discussion about. You see the difference? Yeah. So go ahead and do it. But I just want everybody out there to hear loud and clear. Balance transfer is not your answer. Zero interest is not your answer zero interest is not your answer getting pissed off and selling so much stuff the kids are hiding that's your answer

working an extra job living on beans and rice that's your answer a thousand fifteen hundred two thousand dollars a month boom boom boom. You punch this thing, man. That's the answer. And you got the answer. So if you want to put a little extra, you know, icing on the cupcake with this 400 bucks, great. Go ahead. No problem with that at all. But the danger is, is you feel like you did something.

I'll tell you guys, aside from Laura's question, it's same same place in your brain that this resides listen to this one people do debt consolidation and they take five or six cards a medical bill uh whatever bill these handful of bills they got laying around and they go get a second mortgage on their house or they go get a little unsecured loan at the credit union and they do debt consolidation or worse than that they go down a second mortgage on their house, or they go get a little unsecured loan at the credit union. And they do debt consolidation. Or worse than that, they go down to one of these rip-off finance storefront places, and they do debt consolidation and pay 26% interest. So we consolidated a bunch of 8%, 9%, 10% interest rates to 26%. To start with, that would be mathematically stupid. But at least I've just got one payment, and this is how our brains work, right?

And so here's the problem, though. That doesn't get you out of debt. You just moved it. You cannot borrow your way out of debt. Here's the numbers. 88% of the people that do debt consolidation continue in the negative habit pattern of overspending, not having a budget, and they go further into debt because they don't change their habits.

And they feel like, oh, I took care of that debt. And you know how I know you feel that way? It's because out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, the Bible says. And we say things like, oh, I paid off my debt with a debt consolidation loan. No, you didn't, you duper. You moved your debt. You didn't pay off anything. You just moved it.

But the fact that you say, I paid off my debt, see, that tells you that you felt like you did something. Now, Laura's not in that category. It's a whole different thing. But this discussion I'm having now resides in the same place in your brain that balance transfers on a credit card to a zero interest live. It feels like you did something. And you didn't. No big deal.

Whoop-dee. The secret sauce is changing the person in your mirror. And you go, that's it. I was a child before. I thought like a child. I walked like a child and acted like a child. I'm not a child anymore. And now I'm going to be a grown freaking person.

And I am going to actually address these issues. Now, you could be 62 when you're saying that. You could be 19 when you're saying that. I don't care. It's not a chronological thing. It's an emotional maturity thing. Adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good.

Personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. You cannot do what feels good with money and be anything but broke because you're a child. One way we know you're mature, one definition of emotional maturity is the ability to delay pleasure. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. The ability to delay pleasure for a greater good is the sign that you have become my child a grown-up and i meet 57 year olds who cannot make a decision to delay pleasure and so there's still a child an old wrinkled child but they're still a child i'm 58 so shut up okay so but i mean really i and sometimes i'm still that way

a little not with money stuff but with other stuff but the ability to delay pleasure for a greater good the ability to delay pleasure for a greater good adults devise a plan and follow it no farmer walks out to the field and looks at the dirt and says, where's my corn? Farmers are grownups. They understand cause and effect. They understand that what you plant, you will reap. You will reap what you sow. What you plant is what's going to come out of the ground.

When they plant corn, they don't walk out there and go, where's my beans? They understand cause and effect. When they plant corn, they don't walk out there and go, why is this corn puny when they didn't put any fertilizer on it? They know it's got to be fertilized. And they don't walk out there and look at their field full of weeds and wonder why it did not yield a bumper crop. They know they have to kill the weeds. You have to till your crop. It is work.

And, you know, they take a blank dirt field and scratch rows in it with a tractor and a plow and put little seeds in the ground, all with the expectation that sometime next year I'm going to make some money off of that. See, that's the ability to delay pleasure. They're doing work today that they don't benefit from today. They benefit later. That's emotional maturity. Adults devise a plan and follow it.

Children do what feels good. You know, the fact that we used to be in an agrarian culture in the U.S. and that most people grew up on the farm at least is no longer true is hurting us because we don't have the ability to look into the future and have vision anymore. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to the Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our showcase at DaveRamsey.com slash show.