The Ramsey Show - App - Chasing Easy Money Always Ends in Regret

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

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from ramsey network this is the ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships i'm george camel joined by my co-host and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. Rachel Cruz is here and we're taking your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five. You call us and we're gonna have a good time and help you take the right next step with your life and your money. That is our guarantee. Andrew is calling up first in St. Louis. What's going on, Andrew? How can we help today? Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call.

Sure. I'm a massive fan of the show, so this is kind of an exciting moment for me. So my question is, I'm 20 years old, I had an emergency surgery about a year ago, and now I have $43,000 in medical debt that I have no idea what to do with. And so I'm needing some guidance on that. Goodness gracious.

Oh man, did your insurance didn't cover any portion of it? I don't have and didn't have insurance at the time. Okay. No, there's no insurance. Did you tell them you were cash paid? Cause usually you'll get a real steep discount. I didn't even mention that. Cause at the time it was, it was a all in one day thing.

It happened so quick. And then at the time I didn't even know how much it was going to cost. And then when I got to figure it out, I was so down-founded. I just didn't even know what to do with it so I just been sitting on it. How long ago was that? It's been almost a year it'll I think we're just shy of a month now of it being a full year. Have you made any payments? No. Okay. Have they sent it

to collections? I guess I think they've sent part sent it to collections? Yes, I think they sent part of it to collections. I haven't checked in to see if they sent the full amount, but I know definitely 5,000 of that figure has for sure gone over there. I don't know about the full. Was that through a letter, Andrew? How did they contact you? Yeah, so that was a letter I got in the mail

and an email from the hospital themselves. Okay. Where are you financially? Are you working? Are you a student? Yeah, I'm working. I'm one of three partners in a general contracting business that I've owned for five years with my dad and brother and then just this past year I started up a

photography studio and that's starting to pick up steam so I bring in about 20 to 25 a year that's just what I take though I generally don't take more I've only taken what I need from. From the photography or the dental? You mentioned, what'd you say? You said your general contractor? The general contractor, yes. That's my general contractor. I take 20 to 25 a year, yeah. Okay.

Do you have health insurance now? No, I am getting it written up for me now. I've not really paid any mind to it. From who? Until now, because I feel like it's been sitting a little long. It's from a buddy of mine that he writes insurance for me, and he's looking in to see what he can get me as far as health. Okay.

So he's a legitimate insurance broker? Yes, he's a legitimate insurance broker? Yes, he's an insurance broker. He's looking into what he can write for me, yes. Okay, that is something you need to get in place today. Okay, I'm wondering why from a income perspective, Andrew, did the surgery affect your ability to work? No, not at all. The income number is by standards really low. It's just what I take. So I don't have-

Could you take more? I don't understand. Are the rest of the profits- You're not working there. You just own it. So you get like a dividend basically? Yes. Well, I do work. So basically what it is is my expenses are very low because I don't have rent, I don't own a home, I'm still at home with my parents. So I do pay their utilities and rent, but it's very small. I have a very small monthly budget.

So essentially I just take enough to cover that monthly budget and a little bit extra to put in savings is all it is. So I don't- So you're not charging full rate of the work you're doing as a contractor? that monthly budget and a little bit extra to put in savings is all it is. So I don't... So you're not charging full rate of the work you're doing as a contractor? No, the business is that I'm not taking... So where is that money going?

Yeah, where's the rest of the money that you're owed for the work that you're doing? Well, it's not money that I'm owed. It's just money that we leave in the business and use for business expenses And then I just take what I need for my personal expense. So how much could you pay yourself today? Did you get 40 yourself a raise $42,000 pay off your medical bill? Like I don't like the way that's structured Andrews, you know I'm saying like if you're working 40 hours a week I should be compensated. You're making $10 an hour. Yeah, you're busting your butt. Yeah, I don't like the way that's structured, Andrew. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you're working 40 hours a week, you should be compensated. You're making $10 an hour, busting your butt.

Yeah. That sucks. That's not, you should be compensated. Well, yeah. It's compensated more than that. It's difficult to explain because a lot of my expenses, a lot of other expenses are laying through the business. So it's just my personal expenses.

Like, I don't know. I know Andrew, but you need more money to start saving. You need more money to start investing. You need more money for you to start saving for a down payment for a home. Like you need more money. You're gonna be stuck in the cycle the rest of your life. You're gonna be stuck in this

forever and not have any cashflow available to you. Does that make sense? Like you won't even be able to build up an emergency fund making $20,000 a year. So your structure in this company is pretty whack. It doesn't allow you to be self-sufficient, which is part of the problem of you seeing $43,000 of a medical expense and you don't know how the heck

you're gonna pay it, because you're not making anything. Even though your expenses are low, that's not the way to calculate an income. Does that make sense? Yeah, for you to be self-sustaining. Now, if you are working part-time, that makes sense. But for you to be a self-sustaining adult

where you are a full-time worker, you need to be thinking beyond what your expenses are now because you don't wanna be where you are now in five, 10 years, do you? Like you want a house, you wanna be living on your own, paying your own electricity. And you're about to have health insurance premiums kick in. So you definitely need to make money.

That scared me pretty good when I had this happen. Yeah, for sure. So this is kind of your wake up call to, you need to be restructured. You're paying, yeah, the way you're paid needs to be, and my fear is, is that the way you guys have conducted this family business is that the way you guys have conducted this family business is that they need you

only pulling out 20,000 a year because they need more for profit. Like I'm scared that you're getting shortchanged as an investment, quote unquote, back into the company, but they're needing that margin to keep the company afloat. And if you said, hey, I need to be paid market rates as for an income, would they be able to afford you?

I hear what you're saying. I do hear that. I'm just I don't really know how to explain it because a lot of my expenses are gone through businesses. That makes sense. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. What expenses? Because I'm trying to help loosen this rope for you so that you can make more money to pay off $43,000 of debt that you have.

Does that make sense? Yeah, so it's just, it's, basically anything that can be a business write-off is put through the business. We don't draw it into a personal income. Does that make sense? Yeah, but your food, your grocery, I mean, and I know you live at home, it's just a,

it's a very tangled way to do life right now, Andrew. So from a money perspective. So I want you to hear that. I understand you guys are trying to do all these loopholes so you don't have to pay taxes, but you're getting screwed in the process, Andrew. You have no money. You're on the poverty line.

You have no money and you're living with your parents and you're expected to be paying $43,000 of a medical debt. So something needs to be restructured for you to make more money. You have to, Andrew. These bills are coming. So I need you to feel the gravity of that. This is an adult decision and the business is going to have to be making some different

decisions for you or you're going to have to leave the business and go get a job to pay this debt. You got to face the music and choose reality, negotiate down the debt as low as you can, and hopefully you can get out of this mess soon. Christine is up next in Philadelphia. What's going on, Christine? How can we help? Hi, George. How are you? Great. How are you? I'm doing great. So my question is I got remarried a couple years ago and I have significantly more money than my husband. He's got maybe like $15,000 worth of credit card and student loan debt that I

kind of offered to help with and he was like no no I want to do it I'm just wondering if I should like push that or if I should just help him in other ways like with like budgeting or like just... Yes. To get him on the path to do it himself. All of it. As a man he wants to do it himself. How much money do you have liquid?

Like could you write a check today and be done with all the debt and still have plenty of money left over? Yes. Okay. It sounds like this is a pride thing for him of like, no, I took out this debt, I made the mess, let me clean it up as the man. He's a firefighter for him of like, no, I took out this debt. I made the mess. Let me clean it up as the man.

He's a firefighter and he's like, I want to do it. And he's got, he's only been on for a couple of years. So it's like, he's making more now. So I told him to pause his contributions, which he, he did listen to me. And so he will probably have it knocked out in the next six months anyway. Okay. Yeah, I think for me, because yeah, like you said, the debt will be paid off and it's not going to be even an issue, you know, here in a few months. But I think the bigger problem is the alignment on which you guys are making

that decision because you are still speaking as if it is two different, you know, money situations under the one household versus if you all were saying, you know, as a couple, our goal is to build wealth and to do these things, whether it's replace a car, go on a great vacation. Like we have these goals in life that we want to do and what's the fastest way to accomplish those goals together. And the fastest would be to get out of debt ASAP and start working towards those goals together. But that's more of a holistic viewpoint that we see this situation as us, not just him and you.

I mean the debt's going to go away but my fear is that this mindset still stays and it'll take you guys longer to win financially and miss so many opportunities to continue to build a level of connection and intimacy as a couple and to say, hey, we are one in every aspect of our lives, including this one. And so it just kind of stunts that if you continue with this mindset.

So how would, I guess from my side and from his, like how would I, I've been working and I don't know how you hit right on that, but you did. And because it is like a struggle for me because I feel like I've worked really hard and sacrificed and I don't even have a college degree I just I'm a really hard worker and they don't buy things that I shouldn't. Yeah. So how do I approach it with him? Yeah I mean I feel like I bother him when I'm really like oh we need to need to be budgety. And he's like, all right, all you want to talk about is money. Totally, totally.

Yeah, so I think you can appreciate, and George, you can probably speak into this too with you and Whitney, you can appreciate opposites. Like Winston, my husband is like, hey, look at this Excel sheet for the next seven years. I'm like, I don't really even want to look at that. Even though I talk about money every day of my life,

he's more into that stuff. George loves a budget. Whitney's a little bit more of a free spirit. She likes to know there is a spreadsheet. She doesn't want to actually look at it. Yeah, there you go. So you guys are gonna have different personalities, but don't let that stop you guys as seeing yourselves

as a team when it comes to your money and seeing yourselves as one. So yeah, I think if you go to him to your point and you're like, we need a budget tonight, I'm just so excited on a budget, he's gonna be like, oh, Christine, oh my gosh, like, geez, you know what I mean? Like, make kind of a roll that I-

I think you guys need a dream date and cast some vision. Yeah, but I think it's more of like, it's just the mindset of, you know, it's not about the budget, it's not about the debt, it's us together as a couple. I wanna do this life together. And part of that is like sharing the responsibility money-wise like that.

I just wanna, I wanna work out of one account. I don't wanna Venmo each other bills and your income and my income, like let it all go to one account and together as a household, we are running this household and this family and money's just a tool to allow us to do the things that we wanna do in life

and let's do that together versus separate. And so that's kind of the way I would approach it. And then the tactical side out of that, once you guys agree on that holistic picture together is, okay, together as one, what do we need to do to be financially healthy? Well, we need to have an emergency fund of $1,000. Check. Okay, we need to be completely debt free.? Well, we need to have an emergency fund of $1,000, check. Okay, we need to be completely debt-free. All right, that's our next goal, perfect.

Let's put some of this money that's now in one account. You know what I mean? Put that 15,000 there, pay that off, great. Now we need an emergency fund. Okay, great, let's do that. Next, we have a dream because we've done a dream date, just like George said, and we have a big dream to take the family to this destination in two years.

So what do we need to save each month to do that? Right, like you start actually planning and living life together. Right. Is that helpful? Cause I understand what you're saying. And I think if we, I think couples usually go the tactical side.

Zoom out. Yes. First, and then you reverse engineer it with the tactical. I have like a good amount. Like I have probably like close to half a million and plus I have about a few hundred thousand and like a rental that I own.

So I have to, I know I have to work on that and like combining and really switching my mind. Yeah. Is this a second marriage for him? No. Okay. I'm wondering, I'm just trying to figure out where this is coming from.

And if it feels like, well, she's coming in to swoop in and save me because she's done a great job and I've done a poor job. And his whole life, his job is to save people. You know what I mean? It's emasculating to be like, well, can you come save me from my debt? I messed up.

And so I think you haven't been approaching it with any sort of attitude of, well, you need to fix this and I'll fix it for you. I think let him experience some of this sacrifice and also paint the picture of the future and go, what's the best way to accomplish this? Great, let me just pay this off. You're gonna be sacrificing the rest of your life

in this marriage to build wealth together, but let's get a clean slate faster. I hope that helps with him. I mean, if he really wants to do this on his own, he can, but again, it's not gonna lead you guys toward the unity that you need as a couple. Yeah. And I'm assuming Christine, so correct me if I'm wrong,

you fully trust him financially? Oh yeah. Yeah, okay, good, good, good, good. Because to your point, there is a level of like, oh my gosh, you know, I've saved half a million dollars and handing that over, right? I mean, just, we want to just all say out loud, yes, this is a person that is trustworthy to share

and goals and us together walk this path. Cause we get calls sometimes, Christine, which is not your case, thankfully, but calls that they're like, I don't really trust them. And you're like, all right, well, which is not your case, thankfully, but calls that they're like, I don't really trust them. And you're like, all right, well, let's hold the brakes, tap the brakes then before we do that. No, it's not that. I mean, honestly, it's like the opposite. Like you mentioned, George, I don't think he does not want to feel emaculated. If anything, we have two small children and

he's like, you don't have to work, I'll work more over time. And I'm like, no, it's okay. I'll keep contributing and I can, but I don't want to take that away from him either as a man. This is in the South, we call this blocking a blessing. All right, if you're offering this gift to him and he's saying, no, no, no, no, that's blocking a blessing.

All right, if someone wants to take me out to dinner, even though I can afford it, I'm gonna say yes, because that's the gift they want to give me. And I think you as his new wife, it's something that you're offering and it feels like he needs to work for it. And the truth is he doesn't, he got you. That's the best gift of all.

Oh. Thank you. So maybe he'll listen to this call and he'll be tracking. And it doesn't make you less of a man or a woman. I understand for guys, it's a totally different perspective. I think there's differences in men and women when it comes to how we relate and see and view money.

But that's the problem too, is I think we've related so much of our money, either our mistakes or our successes with who we are as a person. And that's just not the truth. So whether he made a lot of mistakes with money or didn't make a lot, or you were really great with money or you weren't great with money, like regardless, it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect who you are as a person. And you guys married because you loved the person. And yet we live in this world where money suddenly is like this measuring stick. And so I have to earn and find value and covering up and making up for my mistakes.

But that's not, no, take all that off. Like that's not on you. We're doing this together. Beautifully said. Thanks for the call, Christine. This is The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show question of the Day is sponsored by YREFI. If you're buried in defaulted private student loans, you're not alone. Reach out to YREFI to see if they can help build a custom plan to help dig you out. Visit yrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's y-r-e-f-y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states.

All right. We have today's question from Denise in Massachusetts. My 51 year old son invested $600,000 in a crypto exchange scam, and he cannot recover the funds. An attorney says he can sue the exchange that facilitated the transaction.

However, after fees, he can only expect to recover about $25,000 of it. Should he go forward with the process of trying to at least get some of his money back? Yikes. Gosh, George, that's one of the highest ones I've heard. You invest $600,000 and you'll be lucky to get 25 out? You're telling me there's 96% fees? Right.

I just don't understand that part. Yeah. But is the juice worth the squeeze here? You're telling me there's 96% fees? Right. I just don't understand that part. Yeah. But is the juice worth the squeeze here? I'm gonna say no. Because I mean, the attorney is gonna cost money. I don't know if that includes, I assume that includes attorney fees.

We don't know. But the time spent and then the mental energy and it living rent-free in your head during this entire time, which could take years. Yeah. To go through with this. I don't think it's worth it. and it living rent free in your head during this entire time, which could take years to go through with this, I don't think it's worth it. This is what we would call stupid tax on steroids. Well, $600,000.

If you were gonna get potentially 600,000 back, I'd say, yeah, let's fight it. But to get a 4% return on this, I don't think it's worth it. I would try to rebuild as best as he can. I mean, if he was able to amass $600,000 liquid to invest, I hope he does well for himself and he can try to rebuild. But- Could you imagine?

I don't know that I, I mean, this would take years of- This would make me sick. I would take that, the money you're gonna put into this and just go to therapy, honestly. That's really what I would do. Because you experienced a trauma that no one should experience here. And it's one of the reasons I am not a fan

of the world of cryptocurrency. Not crypto itself, just the world is rife with scams and fraud. So much scams, yes, so many. And you can't tell what's what and what's real and is the exchange gonna go down and, ugh, that's brutal. But I personally, I don't think I'd go through with it for 25 grand.

You can go make 25 grand for the time you would have spent fighting it. Yeah, yeah. And then like you said, if you had to pay attorney's fees on top of it, it's up in, yeah. It could get real pricey. Yep. Oh, yay yay.

Okay, stay away from scams and don't invest a lot of your world into crypto. Yeah. That's just one man's take. Do you have any desire at all? Cause you know, your baby step seven, I mean like if you had a million dollars in a high yield savings account, George. Would I put any of it into crypto?

Yeah. I think it hurts my soul to lose money and there's too much downside. It's not worth the upside. You're like, I would just rather put everything in an index fund just to get the- Now knowing what I know, would I have bought some Bitcoin 10 years ago?

Absolutely. Wouldn't we all buy into a company stock that we knew was gonna blow up? Yeah, right. Sure, I would have bought Uber 15 years ago. Totally, totally. Absolutely. Totally.

Not Peloton though, remember we looked that up? Yeah, Peloton, oh my goodness. It skyrocketed, you know, with the pandemic in 2021, and then it just flatlined back down. And so just goes to show you even things that seem like it's a brand that will be around forever. And then you see Crocs exploding and you're like, okay, what is happening?

What is going on in the world? What's happening in the world? But I have no desire, I'm not angry about it. It's not like a staunch principle that I'm anti. I would just rather put that into an index fund and call it a day lower my up potential upside Yeah, it's good. It's good one man's take. All right, Tim is in Newark, New Jersey Tim. Welcome to the Ramsey show Hi guys, what's going on my so much nothing much. Um My question for you guys would be so I make eight hundred850 a month in a career that I'm trying to

pursue, like long-term. Should I quit or stick it out because of the fact that it's like kind of a career I'm still trying to pursue? I think you're being generous calling this a career. What is this? So it's door-to-door sales for solar panels. I knock on door-to-door. Yep.

And why are you only making 850? I think it's just because my skill isn't there yet. But you're telling me this is what you want to be doing? What do you want to be doing long term? Something in like business long term. Like and I thought that this would be like a good stepping stone because of like, you know, your faith. I've heard that door to door is like the hardest.

So that would be like a good starting point, I think. I mean, essentially, yes, door-to-door sales is very difficult. I think the craft of that in the world that we live in has changed. I think it 20 years ago was actually like a pretty profitable way to make some money. Nowadays, I don't think that is. I think there's way better ways for you to make more money and still learn sales and make more than $850. How are you eating, Tim? How are you living, paying bills and stuff? I basically, I mean, I live at home, so my rent is nothing, even though I've offered it. I use my parents' car for getting around. I pay for gas, but like, I don't, like a lot of expenses are not there. How old are you?

Which allows me to do this. I'm 23. Okay. Did you go to school? Yeah, so I graduated with a four year degree. In what? From a pretty reputable college, Homeland Security. Well, you have a degree in Homeland Security?

Yeah. What was the goal of that? In my senior year. So I originally went to college for kinesiology, for physical therapy, but then I fell out of it. So I moved to Homeland Security and studied computers and computer science. So why aren't you working in cybersecurity making six figures? That industry's booming. From everything I heard, like in my senior year of college, I figured that like it would make more sense to go into sales, but that's kind of like,

maybe I'm not entirely sure of what's like, you know, life experience kind of just like meets reality sort of thing. Okay, well, I think basic facts are your friends here. Going, okay, I'm making 8.50 a month, the average starting salary. That's what you can make less than that doing Instacart. You don't even, I mean, more than that doing Instacart.

I don't know who told you that sales was the answer. Yes, sales is a great skill to have. But if you're not good at it. Yeah, and I don't think doing door-to-door sales is your ticket to this grand career in business. I think right now we need to get a full-time stable job in the field that we graduated in. Even if that's not the full-time long-term thing,

just get it now, get out on your own, that's gonna put some onus on you to figure this out in a different way. Okay. And you have the degree, could you go get a, I'm assuming the field of cybersecurity, I don't know what else is out there in the IT world, in the tech world.

Yeah, like there's IT, there's cybersecurity, there's a whole- I would rather see you get an entry-level IT job at this point than the door-to-door solar sales. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, and the product you're pitching, Tom, or Tim, I'm sorry, is very expensive, right? So for people-

It's like $30,000. For people to take that on- Yeah, it's a long-term commitment of like 25 years. And unfortunately I don't have control over like if they actually end up putting it on their house. I just kind of, you know, set up the schedule sort of thing. Is that what you're paid to do right now? How are you making the 850?

It's not commission? Yeah, so it's commission. So if the person signs to put the panels on the roof, that's how I make money. And to tell the truth, so that 850 is also including like a like a first sign-on bonus. Yikes. So like it would actually be significantly less. And it sounds like you're doing a lot of work for free, my man. How long have you been doing this?

Seven weeks. Okay. How long have you been doing this? Seven weeks. Okay. I figured it's expected to be kind of bad at the job when you're only seven weeks into anything, right? But the money is where I'm kind of conflicted. Yeah, but if you're bad at a job that pays stable income, then you at least can eat.

And right now, you don't make enough to be on your own. And at 23 with a four-year degree, you should be on your own. And not have to borrow your parents' car and stuff. You know what I mean? We're trying to be progressing towards something. And I think the field you're in, the way that this is being sold, I just don't see it being like extremely successful anytime soon. And so Yeah, I'm with George I would probably just go get a job in what your field is and then start dreaming and thinking but we need to start Practicing adulthood more than we are right now Buying or selling your home is a big deal.

Between clickbait headlines and confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually going on out there in the housing market. So we are here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So median home prices went up slightly last month to $430,000 and more homes are on the market, nearly $1 million, which is the highest since 2019. But in many areas, it's still not enough to meet the buyer demand. Average 15-year fixed rate rose to 5.9% last month.

It's still under six. I don't know if that's still the case at this very moment. I just saw rates for 30-year went up to just over seven. So if you're financially ready, a small rate increase shouldn't hold you back. If it went up 0.2%, that's not the difference-maker. So if you wanna learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to ramsysolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Zach is up next in Nashville, Tennessee, right down the road. What's going on, Zach? Hi, how are you? Great, how are you? I'm doing good. What's your question? Yes, so I'm 22 years old. I'm currently making about $30,000 to $90,000 a month. And I am trying to figure out when to make the jump into real estate because that's kind of where I want to take my end goal.

Wow. Wow, Zach, we just talked to a caller who makes $850 a month. Yeah, can you spare some change for our friends? Yeah, I did hear that, yeah. What are you doing to make 30 to 90,000 a month? What? So, primarily day trading, specifically the futures market.

Okay, how did you learn about this and are you using a platform? How does this all work? Yes, so I've been like practicing for about three or four years now. And then I decided to, my initial investment was $3,000 into an evaluation for a few prop firms. And essentially you use their capital

and then you normally get to keep anywhere from 70 to 90% of the profits that you make. And so I did that back in October and I was able to pay my of the profits that you make. And so I did that back in October and I was able to pay my student loans off by doing it. And I got a major in finance from Lipscomb. I graduated in December and so I kind of decided that if I'm gonna go all in on this I might as well do it now and see where it took me. And how long have you been doing this? So with the live funded accounts since February or March.

Okay, which is using your own money. No, so it's just the firms primarily at this point in time. So here's the question, if you're so good at this, why not use your own money? Yes, so a lot of the times right now, I don't have $150,000 that I want to invest in it. And I'm well aware of the risks. And if someone else is going to take on the risk for me, I was raised a randy kid, so

the less risk and the more success, then that's kind of where I was going with it. Okay. So what happens if you make a bad trade? You get kicked out of these prop firms, right? Yes. if you make a bad trade, you get kicked out of these prop firms, right? Yes, so there are systems in place to where, essentially, I have certain drawdowns that I can hit, and a lot of times with every single trade I take, I normally try and move the stop loss,

which automatically sells me out of the market to break even. And so at that point, I don want to say it's impossible to lose money by any means whatsoever but like a bad day would be me breaking even or only losing about a thousand or two. Okay how much money do you have now that is liquid? About $50,000. What are you doing with the rest of this money? So I had to pay off my student loans because I paid for my own college. Okay. And then I've been in the process of trying to move just somewhere else in Nashville.

So that's taken up a little bit, a little portion of it. Because it was like the first month, last month and that whole thing. And then I tried to put away some for taxes because I have to do it, obviously I get taxed after. And so that's been the kind of issue. You're gonna get hammered with taxes if you're making 30 to 90,000 a month. Yes. You got to set aside 40%.

I have been, my godfather's a CPA, so he's been trying to inspire me with some words of wisdom. And he's been big on like the 40 or 42%, yes. And do you have any debt left? I do not, no. Good, and that 50K, let's call that your emergency fund plus some?

Yeah, so that'll be like my emergency fund. And then, you know, like something else happens, like with family or, you know, I like to take care of the people around me, so. Okay, and what's your question today? I am trying to figure out, so I've always wanted to get into real estate. And so I'm trying to figure out, so I've always wanted to get into real estate. And so I'm trying to figure out when the best time would be

to make that move and to start investing in real estate as well. Because the trading only takes me about maybe three or four hours a day. And so that's kind of where I'm missing out, I think. And by real estate, for you to own properties for investment, for you to flip and make a spread? Primarily investing and then I would try and do fix and flips when I could, when I have

the time. Okay, so you're wanting to buy and hold and put renters in is what you're thinking. Oh absolutely, yes. Okay. And obviously in Middle Tennessee it's not cheap right now so I was kind of wondering the best way to go with that. Yeah for sure. Yeah, well, with real estate, we always say, if you're gonna go beyond your primary residence,

you wanna do it with cash. And so being able to buy- So should I own a home first? Well, ideally, yes, to have a primary residence before you go and start doing investment real estate, yes. So that would be my goal for you, Zach, honestly, would be to move out of your parents and get a place of your own and start working.

So I am renting. Oh, you're renting on your own. Oh, you're not living with parents, okay. Yeah, no, so I moved down here from college. My family is in another state. Oh, I gotcha, okay. So I've been renting and then I just signed another year long lease by myself.

I gotcha. What are your monthly expenses right now, all in? Probably only about three or four at most, that's probably expensive month. Okay, so let's call it four grand. So you're telling me if you make 30 grand, you set aside let's say 40% of that. Right?

So you'd still have about 15 grand left to just throw into savings accounts every single year. I mean, every single month. Yes, sir. So that you could save up a whole lot of money in a year. I mean, you could have a down payment ready in six months. Ideally, yes. Yeah, so the real estate side of the investment portion,

it is great, but it's not for income producing, right? It's more to hold. Like you make money on that at the buy and then when you end up selling with all the equity because you're holding it for so long, right? I mean decades if you can. Yeah, for more of a long term instead of short term flips. That's right. Yes, that's right. That's right. So yeah, I mean I think it's a great goal, but I think the first step for you, Zach, would be to get your to own property yourself, right? You know, for your primary residence before going and investing and getting a rental home and all of that, because a lot of people do it the opposite way. But what you'll end up finding is you're not really going to make it.

I mean, depending on the home, obviously, in the situation, when you do that kind of investing, you're not making a ton of money. I think a lot of people have in their mind, I'm sure you've heard the numbers, you're a smart guy, but I think a lot of people in their minds have this like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be making so much passive income. But by the time, especially if you go take a loan out, which a lot of people do for investment real estate,

you're having to pay the mortgage, you're having to pay fees on top of that, you're having to pay everything it is to be a landlord for upkeep, all of it. And you're, you end up from a, from a net to gross standpoint with not a ton of cash. It's not like a big cash cow to have all of this like in a residential market having one or two of these. So I just want you going in, eyes wide open, just knowing what you're getting yourself into and that it's not, I don't know,

I just feel like I see stuff like this all the time on social media. And why has we done this? And I'm like, and it's not a bad thing, you know, I like diversification, I like having money in the market, I like having some real estate, like I think all of that's really good, but it's not this thing that's like,

oh my gosh, it's gonna be making me a ton of money. If anything flips, well, like that's where we've actually seen, it's gonna be making me a ton of money. If anything, flips will. That's where we've actually seen, from a short-term perspective, actually see some pretty great returns. Because you're not needing to wait on the market to appreciate, because it's been a little stagnant the last few years. Yeah, and you can get

some really crappy houses in Nashville and gut them if you know what you're doing. I mean, that's a whole other business that you have to- It takes a lot more work. I have a buddy that's willing to help me out to a certain extent. And so, but then I would, I mean, as of right now, depending on even in like Antioch and myself,

I'd take out a loan for the initial part, but then I could pay it off by the time I flip it. So that was the other thought I had. Right, so that's the, that would be the wrong way to do it from Ramsey's standpoint, because that's what ends up, that's how Dave actually ended up going broke, because he borrowed on all these homes. You get starry-eyed and go, a little bit of a workout. And then you get stuck, and you're having to sell it quickly because you're like, oh

my gosh, you know, we have to, it's a flip, and so we're needing to make a profit, and you end up selling it for not as much as you want. And then you end up not making the spread that you want, and then it ends up going backwards, and it's not good. So cash is everything. And I would not count on this gravy train of day trading for too long. I would get out while you can when the getting is good, but just know this may not be a five-year career.

So I'd find something you can sink your teeth into with how smart you are on the man. Thanks for the call. From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz this hour. The number to call is 888-825-5225. We are here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Sarah's going to kick us off in Jacksonville, Florida.

What's going on, Sarah? Hi, I'm calling more to see if I can get some help figuring out how to help my dad. He is widowed and he's been scammed a couple of times in the past five years and it's a decent amount of money that he's lost from what he told me. He was self-employed in a pretty niche business and was recently pushed into retirement. The most recent scam I think is putting him-

What do you mean pushed into retirement? The physical labor of his job was just far too much for him to sustain at his age. He's 65. Okay. Could he afford to retire? So the issue is he hadn't saved up a lot of retirement because growing up my mom was very sick with a very rare cancer and so a lot of the stuff that they were putting aside for their retirement ended up going toward her medical bills. So a lot of what it seems like he's lost from both of these scams were the only nest eggs he kind of had left. Oh, it's awful. What kind of scams were these? The first, it sounds like it was a

romance scam. That was my fear. Yeah, the other one was crypto. And to be really frank and really clear, I understand like the crypto and some of the stuff that he was trying to do. I think he also kind of got sucked into selling things on Amazon type scam because he is trying to take care of himself and he doesn't want wanna be a burden to my siblings and I. He's made that really clear and I think the effort was noble, although misguided. Right, the intention was good,

but the, yeah, the execution was terrible. He kept turning to the next scheme to get him out of whatever mess he was in. Yeah, this man has never gambled a day in his life and recently I saw two Powerball tickets sitting on the table at his house and you know, he's also never carried credit card balances and now he's telling me like he can't afford a two hour trip, you know, down to see his mother for Mother's Day.

So do you have any idea where he is financially at all Sarah? Like, do you know what he does have? Um, he's not letting a lot on to my siblings and I, which is making that a little bit harder. Um, I do know that the first scam was to the tune of 80 or 90,000. And he's only really, he took a home equity line of credit out on his home to be able to pay that off. And the next, the most recent crypto one, he's not giving our siblings a really clear answer on that. We've each heard him say different amounts.

So we really don't know. Is he asking for help? He's not. How'd you find out about this? The very first one, and that's happened, I want to say 2020, and I remember specifically because I knew where I was when he called me and told me what had happened. But the more recent one, he also called but was really sheepish about letting on that there was a problem. Yeah. Sarah, are you married? I am. Okay, how are you and your husband financially? Where are you guys at? We're working on our baby steps. Yeah,

yeah that's great. We're working on paying off a little bit of credit card debt and I think we have pretty minimal student loans Because I work at a university and most of my tuition has been free. Yeah, thank God, but And how old how old are you guys and how old is he? Dad is in his late 60s and we are in our late thirties. Okay. Um, the only thing that I can think that would be the fastest way to help him out of it, which sort of puts my husband and I in a bit of a predicament is we're currently living in a house that he owns that he'd bought with the intent to flip COVID happened and we moved

into it because, you know, our housing got turned upside down and we're paying him rent. But the sale of this house would knock out a good majority of the HELOC, but that doesn't take care of the unknown dollar amount of the rest of the debt that he's got going on. For sure. And has he approached you with that idea or is it just you and your husband thinking through like, gosh, this is an asset that dad has? And- We've, yeah, we've intended to buy this house from him

and getting it inspected and looking at a lot of the things that's in pretty sore condition and the neighborhood is not the absolute best. So thinking of our future and our- Yeah, you may not want to. We want. Yeah, you may not want to. Yeah, we don't want to. So it's sort of a, you know.

Do you guys, I'm just thinking out loud here. Do you know how fast you guys can get out of debt, consumer debt, you and your husband? We are aiming for December of this year. Okay. Well. Which will be really, really aiming for December of this year. Okay. Well, it'll be really, really great. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know, George, I want to know your thoughts on this. There's a part of me, Sarah, that he's not, I kind of want to separate your dad's situation and you and your husband's. You kind of have to make those two different ideas in your head. And I think you and your husband need to make decisions on what's best for you guys. And it sounds like it's not a great house. You're probably not gonna buy it long-term.

You may even wanna get out of it soon. I don't know, but whatever you guys need, you make decisions based on that. And then if he raises a flag and says, hey, as the landlord of this home, the owner of this home, I need the money, so I have to sell this asset and you all just have to be ready if that's ever the case.

But this whole idea of like, I feel like we need to do this for him when he's not asking, right? It starts to tangle the two families and two financial situations where I would want to keep them separate and your heart is so great, Zer, and I can only imagine imagine he's such a Wonderful he sounds like such a wonderful man and you're like, how are you going down this road dad? Like you know better than this right? It's almost so sad as a daughter to watch

Your dad make these decisions right? And so you're just heartbroken for him But also it's hard because you can't help people who aren't asking for help either. So So I understand that you guys see a way out for him to a degree of this home and everything, and that's very generous. And maybe that's in your spirit. And you're like, hey, we do want to offer this as an idea to him. And if you want to do that, that's great. But also, he's not raising his hand.

Do you know what I mean to do anything right now? So, almost in one way way keeping the two situations separate in your minds, but knowing there's gonna be a crossover eventually, cause it's his house, his name's on the deed. And unless he's willing and open, it's gonna be hard to help him. It's like trying to help a brick wall. You're not gonna get very far.

So I mean, if he's willing to freeze his credit, cut up the cards, remove all these accounts, just remove anything in the path that could cause him to cause further damage, would be what I would do for my own dad. Yeah. And if he called the show, Sarah, and he was telling us this,

we probably would say, sell the house and get your financial house, right? I mean, that probably would be our advice to him, but he's not asking. Do you know what I mean? Like, so it is hard to give advice or thoughts to someone that I mean, he's probably feeling a lot of shame and guilt and doesn't want to drag you into it is my guess.

Oh, he is. But if you can get him to open up and say, listen, Dad, I'm not here to judge. Shame. We just want to help in any way we can right now. We can't do that financially, but here's what we can do. But in my conscience, I know this asset is here. And if you need to sell it right, but you could give it as an option but Give them the out. Yeah. Oh It's awful awful awful If you enjoy the show do us a quick favor Hit the subscribe button wherever you're listening or watching.

Leave a review, share it with a friend, click the button, word of mouth, send the text. It really means the world for us and it's the best marketing we could hope for and it really helps spread the word. Joseph is in Sacramento up next. How can we help you, Joseph? Hey, how are we doing today? Wonderful. What's going on? I just had one quick question for you guys.

I am 23 years old and I am looking to either keep my credit card in order to maintain a high credit score or just get rid of it altogether. What has caused you to have this either or scenario? Well, I've been listening to you guys for the last couple of months and I went ahead and got rid of one of my credit cards and then I went to apply for House to Rent and they required three lines of credit for three years and it kind of made me want to keep a credit card for a little bit longer. They need three lines of credit in order to rent?

Yes, that's one place that we were looking at. Okay, one place. Have you tried, have you ever tried to say, hey, if I don't have a credit score, will I be able to rent? Yeah, I tried to see if they could do some sort of manual underwriting, but I was able to get a co-signer for the place. Okay. And so where are you living now?

I'm renting right now for pretty cheap and I am moving to the place that I was talking about in about a month. Okay. So once you're there, are you asking should I maintain it beyond that? Yes. And for what purpose at that point? Just to maintain a high credit score and keep it for business purposes. As in to take out debt for a business? Just to make transactions and to keep all my business expenses in one area. What I'm trying to get at is that credit score is just saying, hey lenders, you can trust me with debt. That's all it does. So you can make all the business transactions you want

without a credit score and without a credit card. So what I'm trying to poke at is to see what is the real reason you want to keep this credit score? Because I think it's beyond just making renting an apartment easy. Right, well it might help me take out small debt and personal loans to help grow my business. Aha! Okay, this is where I go, I wholeheartedly disagree with that strategy.

I believe that you can and should grow and run a business completely debt free just using cash and business debit cards. Okay. So that's where we... What business do you have Joseph? It's landscaping. Okay. So that's where we miss a lot. What business do you have, Joseph? It's landscaping. Okay, good for you.

That's great. And you've done it so far, all cash, no debt? Yes. Okay, so what is stopping you from growing at the speed of cash at this point? Do you make enough profit to reinvest in the business, buy new equipment, make new hires, all of that? Is that your goal?

Yes, I do. Currently, I do not have any employees and I've downsized my business to just me to keep things simple. What is your end goal with the business? My end goal is to grow and have employees, but finding the right employees can be challenging. Okay, so it's really a hiring problem, it's not a debt or credit score problem. Yes, but I would like to have, because you guys say that having no credit history

and score, it makes things a little bit more challenging to either rent a car or get a house. Well, in what way? Like, tell me, if you're going to get a car, will you tell you to pay cash for a reasonable used car? If you're going to buy a piece of equipment, I would say the same. Yes, and I've done that my whole life. But I was just thinking, if I want to buy a house in the future, would it be easier

for them to look at a credit score or do the manual underwriting? Easy is a debatable question. Yeah, I was going to say what easy would be a number, which is what caused so much of the disaster of people that keep a score and the computer basically say, oh, okay, yeah, we'll give this person hundreds of thousands of dollars and then they can't manage it. So easy isn't really, you know, probably the bar we're setting here. Americans have chosen the easy path

and they're in crippling debt and the credit score is living rent-free in their head and they're wondering why they aren't winning financially. And so I've done manual underwriting when I got my mortgage and then paid it off. And it really, I thought there was gonna be more hoops to jump through. It was verification of income,

verification of rental history, and one line of trade like a utility bill or an insurance bill that was paid regularly. That plus a good down payment, they said, "'Cool, that's it.'" I went, "'Okay, sweet.'" So it's really not as difficult as people make it out to be. Our friends at Churchill Mortgage specialize

in these types of no score loans and other companies do it too. They're not the only ones. And so I tell that to say, I wouldn't keep the credit score around just in case. I wouldn't keep it around for the house. Cause what happens is Joseph, you're gonna go, well, I could buy that equipment now

instead of saving up for it. And that will increase my business revenue by 2X. And then it doesn't. And now you have payments and you have all this equipment that's going down in value while you pay interest on it. And it causes people to actually struggle in running the business.

Yeah, they end up having to get out of their business that they started in the first place because some of these moves that they make, they just, they get too excited too fast and make decisions on a hopeful future that doesn't always pan out. And so just limiting your risk and living with such autonomy, Joseph, over your business,

over your own personal money, creates a lot of peace in your life. And I think for a lot of people, they overextend themselves because they're confident, they know what they're doing, or they're trying to work the system of the credit card game and the credit score, right, like all of this generation. And I'll just tell you, from a financial standpoint,

you're gonna win with wealth faster, doing it the old fashioned way of just living debt-free, because you're gonna have way more money freed up to invest and build wealth. And then also the other end of all of this, Joseph, that we talk a lot about on this show is just your mental state, like the idea of having peace and like sleeping at night

and not owing anyone anything. Like there's a level to that in your life that is huge that you can't put on a spreadsheet, right? So there's an element of the holistic person that we look at when we talk about money and especially debt and debt robs so much from us, not just our income, but also our peace of mind. And so being able to be free from that and make your own decisions and it's going to cause you to grow slower, Joseph, which is very frustrating. And I'll just say here at Ramsey, like that's how we've done it.

And there's things like the way that this business is, you know, there's multiple, you know, up to 12 P&Ls within the Ramsey, you know, under the umbrella. You know, there'll be a certain P&L and we're trying to do a project. And it's like, nope, we gotta wait on this. And you're like, oh, I wish we could just do it today. You know, like you, we wanna be urgent with things, but it actually forces you to slow down

and actually make wiser decisions long-term from a business perspective, I believe. So, yep, that's our sales pitch to you, Joseph, but you, you're an adult. So you get to make your own decisions with it. So the question America wants answered, Joseph, what are you going to do next? Well, I think I might go ahead and just get rid of it. I still got to kind of weigh a couple options in my head. But I

appreciate your guys' time and some advice. Absolutely. What is your business revenue? I'm curious. So gross, I do $10,000 a month as a sole proprietor. Amazing. And what are you taking home out of that a year? What's your gross income on your tax return? So currently, I am not a contractor yet. I have my contractor's test scheduled for this weekend. So right now I'm a WQ employee with my business partner, but I've been talking to CPAs and I'm thinking I should be making $6,000 a month cash.

Great. Good job, Joseph. That's an amazing income at your age. Well done. And it tells me you're doing a really good job with this business. Yeah. I'm doing at your age. And it tells me you're doing a really good job with this business. Yeah. I'm doing what I can. Yeah, it's great.

Well done and good luck on the test this weekend. That's exciting. That's big. I love this. This was a great call because I think it points out the bigger picture, which is when you stop caring about your credit score, what you're really saying is I'm done with debt. It's not an option anymore. And therefore, what am I going to do next? Well, I'm going to do what grandma used to

do and just save up and pay for things in cash. And if I didn't have the cash, I wouldn't do it. Yes. And you know what? That simple philosophy, George, would save people so much pain. Like we talked to so many people on this show, and maybe you're listening or watching right now and it's just like they're just carrying this weight of debt and we take out the debt life is great and there's probably a lot of people that are like i wish i was joseph and i was debt free don't joseph don't go don't buy a zero-turn mower with zero financing don't get into it oh yeah yeah is it an easier life it's easier to live with peace and debt freedom.

Is it harder to save up and pay for things in cash? Absolutely. But I'll take that every day. Alright, George. You don't know this. But there's an anniversary today. Whose? It's not yours. No, it's not mine. It's actually a milestone in our friendship anniversary that happened today three years ago.

Okay, think, think, think, think. What happened three years ago? Do you want to tell them, James? The year was 20- I'll give you a hint. It made a lot of people pretty mad at you. Wait, has it been that long since horse skating? Yes!

It was three years ago today, and we're hosting together. Can you believe that? That's really special. So George- And shout out to Kate. Katie. Katie and her horse.

Katie. Started all of this three years ago. Katie called, for those of you that don't know, a lot of people do know this, cause it was a very popular call. Not in a good way popular, to make it sound, it was infamous, I think is the right word.

Katie called, she's a horse girl. We all know about horse girls, right? They're very obsessive about their horses. They love their horses and their horses, they will keep their horses, even if it doesn't make financial sense. Even if it causes them financial ruin. So poor Katie was really not in a good spot

and we're wrapping up the call, the music's coming on, the segment's ending and George is like, Katie, you gotta sell your horse. You gotta sell the horse. That horse doesn't even know your name, Katie. Sell the horse. And I was. Not a great impression of me, but.

Flabbergasted. Rachel's face was the best part. I was like, you can't say. Because you represented what everyone was feeling in America. The horse doesn't even know your name. And I thought, George Campbell. Well, to be fair, I said, Katie, I know this,

would you be willing to sell the horse? It was worth like $20,000, she told me. And she said, well, I've had it for 11 years and it's like, fail. I said, Katie, the horse doesn't even know your name. Sell the. And then we go to break. And so we had to come back and it's like fail. I said, Katie, the horse doesn't even know your name, sell the, and then we go to break. And so we had to come back and do some damage control. I know.

And we ended up becoming friends with Katie. She was very sweet. She actually ended up coming to a live event. In Indiana, yeah. And we got to meet her in person. Anyways, it's an infamous call. And a lot of the people that follow the show closely, they know the call well,

and they talk about George selling, telling her to sell the horse. The third anniversary of Horsegate. Yeah, so Horsegate happened three years ago. So anyways, thought I'd bring that up to you. I had not realized over a thousand days had gone by. I need a sign, like a thousand days has gone by since George was super mean.

Super mean to Katie. Yeah, poor Katie. I hope she's dead free by now. We gotta check in with her, where are they now? We should. I'll send her a message and she'll give me an update. But goodness gracious's dead free by now. We gotta check in with her. Where are they now? We should. I'll send her a message and she'll give me an update. But goodness gracious, thank you for that. Shall we get to the news of the day?

Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Yeah. This is a recent article from Yahoo. Liam Payne of One Direction died without a will, leaving a $32 million estate. Wow. Okay, so we've heard about celebrities dying without a will. Prince famously died without a will. And now his former partner Cheryl Tweedy, who's also the mother of his son, has been named one of the administrators of the estate.

Not of princes, of liams. Yes. Yeah. Good point to make. So along with Cheryl, there's also a music industry lawyer, Richard Mark Bray, who was named as another administrator. And so now they've got to deal with this estate over in England and Wales,

and deal with the laws of the state, and sit in courtrooms trying to figure out how to do this, all because Liam didn't have a will in place, stating, here's the beneficiaries, here's the wishes, all of the things that go along with making a will. And it's really sad, especially, you know, he was 31. I know, he was so young. When he died from this tragic accident in Buenos Aires.

Yeah. Oh, it's a good reminder to everyone out there, whether you have 32 million or $32 to your name, you need a will. Yes. Wills are not for a certain level of wealth. No, no. And yeah, get a state specific will, they're inexpensive.

It takes a little bit of time, but just fill it out and talk about it. And it is really sad, George. I just feel like more and more we hear stories and even with my own personal friends, there'll be family members that are in accidents or things. And it's hard questions to kind of figure out even from a health standpoint with someone, right?

If they are in a condition. Yeah, healthcare power of attorney. Yeah, all of that. Like it's, so doing all of that is such a, like beforehand, before something happens, that is such a gift to your family. It really is, because the decisions are made. They're not having to sit and battle in court

and pick through everything and think through everything. Like it's all laid out, it's all there and it's just, it is the responsible thing. It's part of being an adult and taking care of it. So life insurance, a will, like all of these things are very, very important. It's not a baby step. It's a get the will done today.

And so this is one of those areas as well where people think it's too heavy to deal with. Like I don't wanna have these heavy questions, heavy conversations. So what I'll do is leave it for my grieving family to deal with on top of the loss, they now have to deal with this. And so it's really important to get done.

And I did it online. We have a great partner, Mama Bear Legal Forms. You can head to ramsysolutions.com slash will, and there's no lawyer fees, no fancy offices. You can just knock it out all online with attorneys that are built by attorneys, but without the price tag. So it's super inexpensive.

It'll take you a little bit of time to answer these questions, but then it spits out the document. It's pretty fast. And you have it in place. Yep. So great reminder to everyone out there, get this done today.

Let this be the wake-up call. Oh, okay. Moving on to Anthony in Chicago. Anthony, welcome to the Ramsey show. How can we help? My question for you guys is how do I talk to my alpha father about being overworked and under compensated in our commercial family business that consists of me, my mother, and my younger brother. Wow. What kind of business is it? It's a child care business.

And what's your role? Sometimes I struggle with even that question. I know I do pretty much... Everything? Everything. The teacher, manager role, county work, maintenance. And what do you get paid? Right now I'm getting paid 28 hour. We have a pretty good center.

Okay. Pretty much maxed out. It's just like I've been working here. Really gave my whole entire life to this and I feel like this like I'm living my parents life and not really fulfilling anything in my life. I have a child even of my own now. Are you done with this business? Would you want to just go do something else? Or do you want to stay in the business, but you feel like you should

be more, have more ownership and more compensation? I definitely feel like I should have more ownership and conversation. I've been in it so long that I feel like it'd be better for me to stay in it. But at the rate of how my my piece and how it was affecting my mental, it's like I'm at a, we're saying I don't really know what to do. That's kind of what I'm calling you guys. Yeah. Is your, are you at the end of your rope

because of the family dynamics are exhausting, the hours you're working are exhausting, the type of work you're doing is exhausting. What's like creating that gap for you? It's really the type of work that I'm doing on top of the respect. Okay. Yeah, when you started the call by saying my alpha dad, what does the alpha term mean here? Is it just he runs the show, he tells us what to do, and we're not going to talk back and make any tweaks? He's not there to listen to us.

Yeah, pretty much that. Okay. That's a sign of just poor leadership. If it wasn't your dad, you would say, man, this is a toxic boss. Man, literally, if it wasn't, I feel like if me and my brother weren't working, I don't understand how I would. So here's my takeaway, Anthony. If it robs you of your piece, it's not worth the paycheck. It's that simple. I think we need to have a conversation with dad and say, you're done. Because he's not gonna change. It sounds like he's made that clear. Right.

And no matter money is gonna make this better. Yeah, how old are you, Anthony? 33 years old. Okay. are you Anthony? 33 years old. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I would sit down probably with him, which would be very scary, sounds like.

It's not gonna be a fun conversation. No, it won't be, but I think as a man, and for you to say, you know, I don't know what has to change for you, Anthony, for you to be in a better spot. And I don't know what has to change for you, Anthony, for you to be in a better spot. And I don't know if that's, hey, this is what I need in this work environment for me to stay.

Or if there's nothing you need and you really just don't even wanna stay, then I would give a notice and give a hefty notice to say, hey, I'll work another 90 days here so I don't leave you guys in a pinch, but my time here is done. But I think giving some of that, having some of those conversations sooner than later

is very respectful, because it is a family business and you wanna leave really, really well. But unless there's a conversation about this is what has to change for me to stay, that's one conversation. Or Anthony, if you're thinking, I mean, there's nothing that would change, so I want to stay here, then I would have the conversation, the exit, which is so hard. That's what makes family business so sticky, is it's so intertwined, and it sometimes can

hurt the relationship. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, you're wondering where your money's going, your first step is getting on a budget. And our team is hosting a free budgeting training this month where you'll learn step-by-step how to make and stick to a budget using EveryDollar. Plus you'll get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q&A. So go sign up. Spots are limited and it's completely free.

Go to everydollar.com slash webinar. Adam is in Atlanta up next. What's going on Adam? Hi there, how are you doing? Great. How can we help? Great. Yeah, so I'm calling, I am a disabled veteran. I have a spinal cord injury and a debilitating rare disease. So sorry. Because of this, I have a one, no, appreciate it.

I have a one year old and a wife and I want to build wealth for our family. So I'm calling to ask for advice on how I could do that with a debilitating condition. Oh my gosh, Adam. I guess as the debilitating condition, like physically, are you able to sit at a desk? Are you able to do any kind of work at all that's not physical or is that almost nearly impossible? Sure. I can explain as best I can. So it's a rare disease that most similar to multiple sclerosis.

I cannot, I cannot sit up straight in a chair for over five minutes before I'm in debilitating pain throughout my entire spine. I wake up with migraines, uh, nausea, nerve pain. I'm in bed a lot. Wow. Oh, I'm so sorry. Do you have disability? I do. I got injured, you know, I'm only 32, so I got injured and got disability. I didn't have a lot of work experience dealing with that. So, I get about $852 a month from disability. And that's, is there any other income coming in? Yeah, so I do get VA disability.

I make, let me pull that out, over $5,000 from that, $5,600. So that's been very helpful. Okay. And then my wife, she is a part-time film editor and also gets paid as my caregiver. So we've been incredibly blessed with that. Okay. And what does she make a month?

She makes, I would say, a month over $5,000. Okay. So you guys are around that. $11,000? Yeah, around $11, that? Yeah, around 11 grand. Yeah, yeah. And the only other issue I have is, so because this is a very rare disease, doctors don't know how to treat me.

And I've had to go outside of the condition, you know, regular medicine, and I pay around 15 to 20 grand a month, I mean, I'm sorry, a year, just on my own medical treatment. Oh, wow, yeah. That's gonna be a big part of your budget every month is just making sure that you've set aside that amount

to cover those things. So that'll be an ongoing cost. Okay, and your question is, how can I build wealth? Yeah, and so, and there's one more thing to explain. Again, another blessing of ours is I've been in, I got into the Tunnels to Towers program as a disabled veteran, and they bought us land and are building us a property so we don't have to buy our own property, which is, God's been, even though I'm very sick, God's been blessing us incredibly.

Wow. So, I'm trying to put away as much as I can very sick. God's been blessing us incredibly Wow, so Yeah, I'm sorry go ahead yeah, no I was gonna say yeah, there's a lot of upside to this For you guys to your point and being so in such a tragic situation Yeah, well the good thing is is your age Number one is that you guys are still young. I mean, you, you have a lot of years to be investing and building wealth through that. And it may, you know, look different, you know, it may be one of those things, unless your wife chooses, you know, to go more full time or chooses a different career path and

starts making more money that you guys will probably have a somewhat consistent income for a while, right? I mean, nothing really is probably gonna change majorly unless I'm missing something. And I guess she would be the only factor that if she decided to change something, that could cause an increase in income. But even for that, and even with your medical, the fact that you could,

I mean, if you guys just even invested, I know you pulled up the calculator, George, but just, you know, even a thousand dollars a month or whatever it looks like, I mean, that does build wealth long term. Yeah. We always say that your greatest wealth building tool is your income. And even though you're not working, you guys have a great income. And so that's the key is how much of that can we live off of versus invest. And so if you, do you guys have any debt right now?

No, we don't. Great. And so if you, do you guys have any debt right now? No, we don't. Great. And you have an emergency fund saved? Yeah, 40,000. Amazing. So, you know, I'm crunching numbers here. What's that? I was gonna say we also have another 20,000 that we've saved just for real estate or we're just not sure. Yeah, I mean, you can max out two Roth IRAs.

Now, VA disability income is an earned income, but because your wife has earned income, you can invest up to that amount. So the max is 7,000 in both of those Roth IRAs and you can do the spousal Roth IRA. So you could do that and max out at 14 grand for the year, just kind of kickstart this. You guys have anything saved in retirement so far?

Yeah, actually. So I have, we're in Vanguard and we have a personal advisor. We have about 150,000 in assets in Vanguard. Just a taxable brokerage account, non-retirement or? I have a Roth, traditional, and just a brokerage account for my wife and I. Great. Well, I mean, I can just show you

with some numbers and stats, what will happen. If you guys are 32, you got $150,000 saved already. And let's say you invest 1500 bucks a month. That's less than 15% of your income from what you shared. But let's say you invested 1500 total per month at a 10% rate of return from 32 to 62, you'd have over $6 million. Oh, wow.

And even more conservatively, 8%, still $3.8 million by 62. Oh, okay. So really the key is you guys are building these habits now, just keep it up, be consistent, keep putting money into the market when the market's down, when the market's up, when you have a good month, a bad month, just keep investing no matter what, and you're gonna be just fine as far as the wealth goes. So that'll allow you to focus on Adam and focus on raising your one-year-old

and being present for your wife. And that's really the beauty of building wealth. It's not to just stack up cash, it's to create that impact, to leave a legacy, and to stop letting money problems live in your head red free. Yeah, and with that, Adam, I think that does, to leave a legacy, and to stop letting money problems live in your head, red free. Yeah, and with that, Adam, I think that does give you guys some cushion,

especially with your health stuff, that if you look up in two years and there's some treatment that costs a lot, you guys could pause it for a bit if you needed some extra cash, right, to go and get that done. So it gives you a lot of margin and flexibility, but I think that consistency of investing for you guys is gonna be your key.

That's what's gonna cause you guys to build wealth long-term. But gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry about all the health stuff you guys are going through. I know that takes such a toll. I hope and pray that there's just healthcare and tech advancements in the future. And so over the next few years and decades,

maybe there will be a treatment that can get you back to more mobility, less pain. Yeah, I'm hoping so, but I'm always hopeful, but otherwise I just keep pushing forward. So. Yeah, well, thank you for your service. Yeah, absolutely. What a sacrifice. Yeah, but you and your family, you guys sounds, yeah, incredible. And that's it. I think it's, you know, it's, it's not exciting. Right? We've had some like calls about crypto and like, and they ended up being scams

and people lose money. There's all these like shiny things out there. Could make more. Yeah, all this stuff, but it's like, man, just investing 1500 a month. What that could get you from 32 to 62. Yeah, I mean, it's wild. That's pretty crazy.

This is compound growth at its finest. Because if you look at the contributions of this, it's a little over half a million contributed over those 30 years. The growth alone was 3.2 million. It's crazy. So when people go, well, I can't save a million dollars, I'm going, you don't have to save a million dollars.

You need to kickstart the compound growth process where your money makes more money. And it starts when you're young and you just keep it going and keep it going. So what we found is most people's retirement accounts, 80 to 90% of the balance is compound growth. Only 10 to 20% was the money they put into it. So that's very encouraging for me and it should be for you that you don't need to make a bajillion

dollars. You don't need to put away a million dollars. You need to put away money now, today, tomorrow, whatever you have, whatever you can, make it a little until you can do more. And that's gonna build wealth over time. Yeah, that's right. And we always talk about investing 15% of your income into retirement, that's what this is.

So that 15% is huge. And then once you pay off your home and you guys are on baby step seven, that's when you're able to up a lot of this too. Yeah, is that you can keep continuing to build that wealth, which is amazing. So thank you, Adam, for the call. Appreciate that.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz this hour. The number to call is triple eight, two five five two two five. Max is gonna kick us off this hour in Chicago. What's going on Max? Hey guys, how are we doing today? Doing great. How can Rachel and I help? Well, I've got about eighty thousand dollars

worth of debt. We're currently renting and I have a daughter who is learning disabled with autism and we're just trying to figure out how to get on a good path in life to get ourselves financially stable and provide a future for her when we're gone. That's a good goal. Yeah, how old is she Max?

She'll be four in August. Okay, when did you guys get the diagnosis? A little bit after she was two. Okay, so you guys have known and kind of been doing this for two years now? Yeah, me and my mom stay on top of it, my mom especially. What does that look like as far as ongoing care and expenses? Unfortunately, not a lot of insurances cover neurological care and that kind of stuff. So we've secured about $10,000 worth of medical debt getting the diagnoses, getting the care. Are there regular appointments?

Is it like a sort of a therapy that she's going to? Yeah, it ebbs and flows. And so we're in a transition phase onto the next step. We're looking at a couple of different options, ABA therapies or like an in-school place. There's a couple of different paths. Okay. Okay. I'm trying to figure out how we can begin to cashflow this

knowing it's coming up so that we kind of minimize the damage and we're able to get out of debt instead of continuing to accrue. Yeah, exactly. What's this 80K in debt? Can you break it down for us? Yeah, I had $40,000 worth of credit card debt that I consolidated in 2016.

And I was paying on till 2017. I lost my job in 2017, stopped paying on it. And it has just been sitting in the background haunting me ever since, but I haven't touched it. I haven't stopped paying on it. And it has just been sitting in the background haunting me ever since, but I haven't touched it. Haven't done anything with it. Is it in collections? No, I think it's past the age of collections.

Like I had gotten a letter that they couldn't. So collections gave up on you and that no one has sued you for this? No, no. And so it's reporting on two of the three credit bureaus. Okay. Trans-Union and Equifax. So that's 40 of the 80.

What else is left? $30,000 is in legal fees. We've been in a custody battle for my daughter and her twin brother for the past four years. Oh gosh, with your ex-wife, I'm assuming? Long story, not ex-wife. Okay, okay. And the 30K, is that to the lawyers?

What debt is it? Is it like a personal loan? How do you do that? No, it's to the lawyers, to the guardian at Lytum, and then my own lawyer. Okay, and then another 10,000? In the medical debt? Medical? Yeah. Okay. And then another 10,000 in the medical debt. Medical. Yeah.

Okay. And what's your household income? I just finished my apprenticeship program in the union. And so it has just gone up a little bit. It really, it changes quite frequently. I could work anywhere from 1300 to 1800 hours a year. I would say comfortably 70. That was what I could kind of count on. 70 grand is kind of what you're banking on. Yeah, I would anticipate 85. What I would comfortably count on would be 70.

Okay, and are you married, Max? I am. Okay, and what's your wife do? She's a stay at home mom. We've got three kids and another nugget on the way. Okay, wow, congratulations. Party at Max's house. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

So you've got the sole income here. You make 70K, but you have 80K in debt. There's not much we can do to get out of this except start attacking it from smallest to largest. And I think this is gonna take increasing your income There's not much we can do to get out of this except start attacking it from smallest to largest. And I think this is going to take increasing your income because it sounds like your expenses are really going to go up. Yeah.

So is there anything we can do to lower your expenses? Do you know? Have you guys done a budget to actually figure out what our monthly expenses are for an average month? Yeah, we're at about three to 32 depending on the month and then what kind of programs we need to do for my daughter. Okay. So there's a little bit of money left over or at least there should be.

Yeah, how much margin do you guys have? Do you know? Yeah. What was that? How much money is extra per month that you're not using for expenses? It depends. You know, like spring is always really rough because we have a lot of rain days. Like today was a rain day for me so it didn't work.

So it kind of depends between five and 800. And usually that gets rolled up into the nest egg for winter layoff, which can be between a month and three months. Can you do work outside of this if it's a rain day, can you go pick up something flexible to still make a hundred or 200 bucks in a day? Yes.

So we just moved, so I'm trying to get something going. I've got a couple of different things that I'm looking at, like TaskRabbit, my mom turned me on to. So we're looking into that. What are you doing for work? What's your role? I'm a heavy equipment operator. Okay.

So I run excavators, dozers, all that kind of stuff. And you're pretty handy. So if you were doing task rabbit, would it be handyman work? Yeah, handyman work, definitely, or mover, you know, whatever people need. Okay. Yeah, I would try to spin up this handyman business

and see if you can charge, you know, in Chicago, probably 75 bucks an hour. That would be my guess. And do that 15 hours a week. Yeah, that'd be great. That could change your life to get out of this debt faster. Yeah. Because right now it's looking like years and years.

Yeah, and the two types of debt, the medical debt, sometimes you can negotiate, Max, if you guys get in there and you kind of make it your side hobby of just calling and pushing, like that is one type of debt that I feel like people end up getting you know, getting some money back. They might take $2,500 instead of $10,000 and call it good. Yeah, we've managed to negotiate ourselves out of about $7,500 of that. Oh, good.

Okay, great. So, yep, that and then the credit card debt, because it is so old, it's already out of collections. I hear you say all that. Usually places, whoever's holding that debt will settle it for pennies on the dollar. I mean, so I don't want you to pay a full $40,000 in this credit card debt because it's gone bad. So, I mean, right? Like I feel like you would be able to negotiate that. I just wanna find out who's holding that debt right now.

Do you know? Well, like, so I got a letter the last time about it, cause they would send a letter about it, like, hey, we'll cut it down to the XYZ price from, but I would get it from Chase. Okay, but they are negotiating with you. You've gotten letters from them in the past. Yeah. Okay.

Well, that's great. So, I mean, gosh, I would work to save, if you could. It's going to be a part-time job, just negotiating down these debts to get rid of them. Right, but I mean, honestly, you really could get this 80 grand down in half. I mean, if you really worked at it, I bet you could get that $40,000. I bet you could offer them 12,000 and they would take it.

So I think that there's a lot of that, that I would be playing that game all day just to get rid of this stuff. And it's not like you have the money sitting there. You don't. So it's like, Hey, they're probably not even expecting to get their money at this point from you. So, um, I would be working at that. The legal stuff. I, I don't, I don't know how much wiggle room of negotiation there you could try. Yeah. Are you on a payment plan with them?

No, they, they said they weren't interested in a payment plan. So they would just have a judge issue a judgment. So, and he has on one of them already. So. Yikes. So they're suing you over this cause they're lawyers. So that's easy for them to do. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. So bread and butter. So it's going to be a lot of talking to people, Max. I mean, honestly, and figuring out how to lower this stuff. And then if I were you, Max, I mean honestly, and figuring out how to lower this stuff. And then if I were you Max, I would be, I would just say, all right, wife, you're gonna be home with the kids.

It's gonna be a full year of you working extra, getting home from your job, going back out and fixing stuff. I mean like working like a mad man to be making some money. Cause you could get this stuff cleared out faster, the more you sacrifice and work and get this income up. And

and and and and and and and and

and and and and and and and and

and and and and and and and and and and Hey, how's it going? Great. What's your question today? Hey, so I actually just graduated college and I'm about to start my first full-time job here in a week or so. Way to go.

What are you doing? Yeah. Yeah, so I'm working as an engineer at an aerospace company. Incredible. And yes, super excited. I actually accepted the job back last fall. And essentially what I have to ask you guys today

is I'm trying to figure out if I should commute to work or get an apartment closer to work or possibly go ahead and start investing into a small, small house. When you say commute to work, you mean you're living with your family right now? Yes, yes, yes. Right now I'm living at home rent free.

Okay, and how long would this commute be? It's an hour 15 one way. And for those reasons I'm out. Yeah. What are you gonna be making? Stop, hold on. Oh, trust me, I signed my offer letter back in October and I'll just be honest with you,

you didn't really think about it. Yeah. It was a great, great job and I ended up with a long ways away you. You didn't really think about it. Yeah. It was a great, great job. And I am a little bit a long ways away. And yeah. How much are you making? How much will you be making Trenton? 95.

Good. That's a great one. Okay. What kind of debt do you have? All I have right now, I drive a paid off truck and the only debt I have right now is my student loans. And how much were those? 25,000.

Okay. You know, I mean, you're making a great income. Is it in the type of field you're wanting and like that you wanna be in? Yes, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's a great job. I've been very, very fortunate. I'm also starting, here's another thing.

I'm starting graduate school online in the fall. And I'm just really concerned, I'm really concerned that this, driving two and a half hours a day is really gonna take away. Yeah. Why are you doing graduate school? Where are you gonna get, what kind of degree?

I'm getting my master's in engineering management. Are they paying for it? Yes. Amazing. Okay, Trent they paying for it? Yes. Amazing. Okay, Trenton, if I were you, is it a cheaper area where an hour and a half from where you are right now, from your parents' house to where the office is?

I wouldn't say, it's kind of like a sub-metropolitan area. So it's not like a huge area, but I've really thought about finding somewhere in between where I'm at right now and work. Okay. Gets me out on a 30 to 45 minutes away possibly. Yeah. But I don't really want to get into an apartment and just waste my money renting. I'd really like to get into a small house because I really would like to. I know you would. But do you have any money right now though, Trenton? That's the thing. Not enough to get into a house. Yeah, and you have debts.

So you actually have a negative net worth right now. So adding in more debt on a mortgage would not be smart. You're not wasting money or throwing away money on rent. You're buying yourself time to get to a strong financial position so that this is not a stressor. So yeah, I would go rent a cheap one bedroom somewhere. Yeah, what does it cost in that area for a one bedroom? Have you looked?

Yes, I have looked. It's anywhere from 1,300 to 1,600 a month. Amazing. I mean, I would make it a goal, something crazy, to be like, okay, could I live on 45,000 and this 50,000 payoff, 25,000 in six months, save 25,000? I mean, this is all pretty, I know the 95s before taxes,

but have some pretty extreme goals here because you could get a down payment saved pretty quickly, Trenton. I mean, honestly, in two years, you could have this debt paid off in about six to nine months. And then another year, year and a half, have a great, have some emergency funds set aside

and a down payment for a home. I mean, that's all very reasonable, especially making almost a hundred grand as a single guy. So I mean, I would, yeah, I would look into doing something, but I would rent before it. Do not go buy something right now, Trenton, do not. Go rent. Really cheap.

And you can, I mean, to afford a one bedroom apartment on your own at your age is amazing. Yes. And so I would utilize, you're probably gonna be in a, you know, taking home six grand a month. And so our parameter on housing is try to keep it to 25% of your take-home pay. So 1500 bucks, if you're making six grand,

that's right there in that quarter parameter. And so I would rent and have a great life, pay that debt down aggressively. Don't increase your lifestyle right now. Get a fully funded emergency fund in place of three to six months of expenses, begin investing, and then start saving up that down payment. Okay.

I don't know if that's the answer you wanted to hear, but I personally wouldn't drive two and a half hours. No, and I'm honestly, I'm kind of starting to lean away towards the day, like I said, I didn't really think about it back in October, but I guess I was always- You can survive it for a few months. You could always try it and go, all right, I'm gonna of starting to lean away towards the, like I said, I didn't really think about it back in October, but I guess I was always had this- You can survive it for a few months. You could always try it and go, all right, I'm gonna do this for a month.

And if you're like, this isn't bad at all, I could listen to podcasts on the way, then maybe you can ride that out a little longer. But long-term, you're right. It's going to eat away at your life and your soul and the things you'd rather be spending your time on. And a lot of gas money too. For sure.

Great job Trenton, well. I guess I just have always had negative thoughts associated with renting. So you kind of gave me an answer I wasn't really expecting. You know what, I'm gonna send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. Read the mortgages chapter Trenton and it's going to give you a lot of peace

about renting in this season. So hang on the line, Christian will pick up, going to give you a lot of peace about renting in this season. So hang on the line. Christian will pick up. We'll send you a copy of the book. Emanuella is up next in Fort Worth, Texas. What's going on Emanuella? Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help? I was calling to ask for help because I'm going gonna be starting a business and I wanted to know is it possible to start a business even though I have a lot of debt to pay off. How much debt do you have?

Let's see. We personally owe $30,000 to three people. We have 19,000 in school loans, I mean, 2,900 in credit card debt, and like 15,000 in like regular debt, which is in collections like past evictions, medical and charged off accounts. And what's your household income? It kind of changed.

So right now, my husband is making about $4,000 a month, and I recently just had to quit one of my jobs because I have a newborn, and I'm only working on the weekends at the hotel. So... So very part-time. Yeah. And what's this business that you want to start? I went to, I went to a nail salon. Just working in, but having a booth.

A booth in a nail salon. What does that cost to get started? It'll be, well, I get three weeks free with that one, but then every week, I'll be paying every week and it'll be about $200 a week. And do you have a clientele that you've already been working with privately that you've gone to people's homes and you have some customers already and so you're now moving into more of a formalized business or you're just starting all this from scratch?

Obviously I'm gonna be starting always from scratch. And you need the proper licensing, right, to do this? Yes. What would that cost? To get the, cause you need to go to school for this or go through some kind of training? Like a trade school? Yes, that's a part of my school loan because I already, I had to take about a $6,000 loan

so that I could finish nail school. So I don't have to pay for the- So you finished nail school? For the licensing. Yes. Okay, so now what's the next step? You need to get the license, you need to pass a test? Yes, I'm gonna be taking my written test in June

and I'll be taking my practical at the end of June, beginning of July. Okay. So you're not really starting a business. You're just gonna be working at a nail salon? No, it's her own individual nail salon, right? You're not working in a,

you're not going into a nail salon and being one of the manicurists. You have your own within a smaller, what do they call that? That's where I get my haircut, right? Like it's like a- Like individual- Individual salons, yes, correct?

Yes. Okay. And it's only 200 bucks a month to rent that space? No, a week. A week, okay. So you need to make 800 bucks a week just to break even. And you're starting with no customers. So that's the hard thing.

Cause if you go and you actually build a clientele and work for someone that has built in, a built in client list, people walk in and get their nails done and then you end up getting tipped and all the things. I would be doing those kinds of things to ensure and get the experience to ensure that this is even what you want to do versus starting from scratch and not having. Yeah. My worry is you're telling me you can't even work right now because you have a newborn.

And so you're going to be paying 800 bucks a month and not making that much if you're not able to work that much and build up the clientele, which tells me this is not a money making scheme. It's just going to continue to cause you guys to get into a worse place financially. So I'm with Rachel on this. I would get a job somewhere that oh yeah. Or if you can go to people's homes and do their nails and build up a clientele and then move to more of an official space. That would be your next step. But starting off an official space by yourself

with no back lists of clients, that's a gamble. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Rachel Cruz. The number to call is triple 8, 8 two five, eight, five two two five. Ramsey's complete guide to investing can teach you everything you need to know to invest with confidence, whether you're a beginner or looking for next level strategies.

So go check it out, ramseysolutions.com slash invest to get your free guide. Or if you're listening on YouTube or podcasts, just click the link in the description. Elijah's up next in Dallas, Texas. Elijah, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello, how are you guys doing today? Doing great. How can we help? I'm in a bit of a tough situation. I wanted to know how I can stay motivated and just

keep my life balanced to continue to work two jobs after I received a pretty hefty child support judgment against me and also just trying to pay for, you know, a good lifestyle for me and my daughter. What's the child support judgment? How much? What's the child support judgment how much With everything it's around two thousand dollars a month, okay So that's that just came out as of recent and then Including that in my monthly expenses I'm totaling like around

$6,000 a month that I will have to pay out. And what do you currently make a month? What comes into the bank account? So right now, I actually just got laid off, but I was working in tech. I was working two full-time jobs in the tech industry. So at that time, I was bringing in around 12, like around 12 to 13,000 a month.

But now, you know, as of recently I got laid off of one. So I was down to around 6,500. And then, you know, a few weeks ago I got laid off with the other one. So I'm not- But you've lost both your jobs? Yeah, within the span of the past three or four months I lost both. Why? What was the cause of the layoffs? So the first job that I lost was pretty much just a personality difference between me and my manager just being like kind of

micromanaging a bit and you know our personality clashed in there So I pretty much just put my full effort into my second job and unfortunately they went through You know a wave of layoffs and they ended up laying off my whole department. Oh shoot Yeah, okay How soon you think you can start replacing this? Are you applying for other jobs? Because it sounds like it was a pretty, I mean, you're, you know, you're making great money.

Yeah. And that's the thing. So I'm looking for more remote opportunities, but just looking at my bills, it seems like I will have to continue to work two jobs, you know. Why not just work one good job? What's the $6,000? I want to know from the, and that includes, I'm guessing, the child support. Is that right or is that on top of the child support?

That's including the child support. Okay. So you have $4,000 of your personal expenses. Yeah, correct. And you kept using the word lifestyle. What does that mean when you say, I want to keep up my lifestyle? So when I say lifestyle, like rent, like I have a paid off car, then I have a car note. You have two cars?

Huh? You have two cars? Yeah. Okay. What's the other one worth that has the note on it? I owe 33 and it's worth around the same. So I can get rid of that pretty easily. Yeah.

We're selling that today. Okay. Why do you need two cars? I don't. I think when I was working the two gigs, I was a little bit just hounding all that. Yep. Yeah. So yeah, I think Elijah, let me say this. I think my hunch is you're making 13 grand a month

and you were living like you're making 13 grand a month and you were able to spend and enjoy and carry car loans and be living a great lifestyle, doing what you want. And the reality has hit that you right now don't have any work. You have now a new $2,000 bill a month with child support that you have to pay. And I think there's a little bit of a humble pill

that has to be taken to say, all right. And this is hard, Elijah. This is going back in quote unquote lifestyle and maybe living not exactly how you were living before it is a kick to the ego and the pride but there's a level of maturity of an adult man to say or a woman to say okay here's the money that I make here's the reality and there's a reality and there's something deeper in me and my identity that is not defined by the car I drive, the clothes I wear, where

I hang out, where I vacation. And that is so anti our culture. Our culture is defined by all those things, Elijah. So there's going to be some kind of deep soul searching that you're going to have to do to have a level of really deep security in who you are as a person to say, I can't care what anyone else thinks. Because in order to get yourself in a good spot where you feel really stable, that's what it's going to take. Because how much debt do you have besides this $33,000 car loan? Without the $33,000, just around 20.

Okay, what's it in? It's like lawyers, the lawyers I spend time with. Okay, what's it in? The majority of debt is like lawyers, the lawyers I spend time. Okay, yeah, for, okay. Yeah, totally, okay. And do you have any money saved? Yeah, I have around 35,000 saved. Oh, good for you.

So you could be completely debt-free if you sell this car and then pay off the lawyers immediately and still have 10 grand left over. Yeah. I was thinking, what do you guys think? Should I wait to find additional work before I kind of dip into pay off the debts with that savings? Yeah, that's a good point.

I probably would have some income coming in before you do that. I would sell the car today, regardless. But I think you do need this emergency fund to float you until you have some stability with your income. And as soon as you land something, I'd pay the rest of the debt off. Yeah, and in the meantime, it may be kind of, you know, pumping the brakes on some of this stuff, you know,

maybe for six months to a year, just to get yourself in a good position where you're like, okay, I have a fully funded emergency fund back. I have a job now. And ideally, yeah, not working two full-time jobs, ideally making, you know, living on one. I don't even know how you did that. It's, you know, with working remote, like-

So you did one in person, and then did the other one remote while you were in person? No, both of them were remote, and a lot of the tech stuff is task-based, so I can keep up with the tasks and I can do it, but I was running myself ragged trying to keep up with it. Yeah. And yeah, I just see that becoming a pattern

and I don't think either employer would like it. And so I don't want that to happen again in the future. I would find something that pays great. You could find a six figure job in tech and just do that. Yeah, I think my issue was with you paying the child support. I wasn't sure if that was enough to float me. Well the problem is not the child support. The problem is the lifestyle that you created for yourself when you were living high on

the hog. Now, you can go back to the courts and say, hey, I need a modification with proof of the layoffs and proof of, you know, the lack of employment right now. And that would lower the child support if it went through. Yeah, but also it's your responsibility too, so. So this, yeah, I'd rather see you get your income back up and be able to pay the child support. But they base the child support

off of your 12 or $13,000 income. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so if you get another job and you're making 80,000 a year versus 130, yeah, then it does need to be adjusted to your point, George. But yeah, that's hard. But I wouldn't try to lower the child support,

but then keep up my wild lifestyle on the side here. So I think creating that budget, Elijah, for the first time is gonna be a real eye-opener to see where all your money's going. And then here's what you do. If it's not food, utilities, shelter, transportation, insurance, minimum debt payments, or child support, it needs to go for now.

And we can reintroduce it later on, but there's probably a lot of just fun, frivolous stuff, you know, subscriptions, whatever. Yeah, some of it's cool. I'm getting emotional about this. I know, George is choking over here, Alasha. Jib memberships. He's struggling.

You know, if you hold on the phone, Christian or Chris is gonna pick up and we're gonna give you every dollar and our subscription-based version of it, every dollar premium, just to get you in control of this income, when you get the income, when you get the paying job, because I do think you can have a great lifestyle.

And I think you're a really hard worker and you have a lot of experience in the tech world, it sounds like. So I think you can get a great paying job and not be running yourself ragged and live within your means and have a lot of peace in your life. Yeah.

Best of luck, my man. Best of luck, my man. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 101, 7. before my eyes. Mark Twain said, a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Wow. That's a good one. That is a good one. A lie's travel fast. Quickly. Alright, Henry is in Salt Lake City up next. What's going on Henry? Hey! Were you that excited to talk to me? Oh my god! Oh my God! Are you trolling right now? You got George Cavalier in the line! No, I'm not. I'm a huge fan.

Thank you. Anyways. It's almost hard to believe with that level of excitement, but I appreciate it. George, what if every time you entered. I've been seeing you guys like nonstop all day, like since last year. And I mean, I just barely got married two weeks ago.

Congrats. Barely got married. Just by the skin of his teeth, got married two weeks ago. Congrats. Barely got married. Just by the skin of his teeth, got married. She barely said yes. I'm 36. So when I say barely, I mean barely. You're like time is running out, my man. All right, I'm proud of you.

Exactly. How can we help today? I want to know, George, do you wish we greeted you like that as personalities when you walked into our office, that John DeLoe, Ken, and myself myself and Jade were like, is George Campbell? I think my, I have sensory issues. I think I'd be overwhelmed if that happened every day in real life, but I appreciate it once in a while from my man, Henry.

Oh Henry. Thank you for that. What's your question today? Oh my gosh. Okay. So my wife and I were trying to decide kind of how to go about, I want to go back to school, get an MBA and begin that whole process. And the thing that we've been going back and forth about is like how we're going to fund this whole thing. And so my parents have offered us to have offered to pay for it, to fund it if we, you know, we get into a good program,

but they would like us to move back to California. And so that's kind of what my wife's leaning towards. And I kind of want to stay here in Utah. I just kind of, we're debt free, but just try to get our own savings together and kind of do what we can do because I'm not really sure what else my family is going to require from us.

Yeah, this feels like a weird proposition here. Hey, we'll fund it, but you gotta, are they asking for you to move in with them or just move close to them? Well, they'd like us to move in with them so that we can save as well in the meantime. Well, why do you guys need to save if you're debt free? Exactly.

Like I. Well, I mean, well, we don't have a home either. We're just, we're renting right now. So that's kind of why I want to go back to school, to earn more money. The household income, I mean, it's just really not that fortunate for us. And your wife wants to do this? She wants to move in with the in-laws? Exactly. I'm just so confused. Yeah, and my other question is, besides the relationship side, are you sure the MBA is actually gonna make you more money? I've heard a lot of people recently get that, and it's not too hard.

This is nothing against people who have MBAs, don't come at me. I just have never found them to actually be helpful in the real world. It just makes the colleges more money. Yeah, so kind of, I guess the thing is, we're trying to decide, you know, we want to, you know, start a family.

So, I mean, like next year, we want to get in a position where we can, you know, start our family. And so we feel like- Why aren't you in a position now to do that? ... to earn more? Because we're renting and- Babies can live in apartments. There's no law against that. Is there in Utah that says babies must live

in a home that is owned by the mother and father? Yeah, that's true. No, no, not that I know. But okay, that's good. Now we're joking. You feel comfortable because, I mean, if we're renting month and month- What do you make a year?

What's your household income? 60,000. Okay, and is your wife currently working? No, she's not. What's she doing? We're from another country. Okay. She can't legally work?

We're from another country. Not yet, we're working on her papers. So that's kind of why we're wondering if going back to our parents would be a little better just so that we can kind of get the papers process, like go through the evaluation process while I try to figure out things that work and what's cool.

Yeah, I don't know the process as far as the paperwork and green cards and visas, but I think getting her working ASAP would definitely help and then getting your income up. I'm not convinced the MBA is gonna magically do that. What are you doing now for work? I'm in the entry level in a data storage company. Data storage?

Yeah, data storage, looking to just get a promotion. I mean, I've been looking to just get a promotion. I mean, I've been on my job for a little over two years now, so we're looking to hopefully get a promotion this year. What do you wanna be doing? What would the role be? Yeah. Is it like a data analyst?

I don't know the exact. I wanna actually go back to school and kind of bid it and get into real estate. But I mean and kind of get into real estate. But I mean, I want to, I want to get into real estate. Then why do you need an MBA to get into real estate? Um, that's a great question. I have no idea where to go. Like in what? That was a trick question.

You don't need an MBA to get into real estate. You need to, you need to get some real estate training. You can go through that very cheaply. Okay. Are you trying to be a real estate agent? What does that mean, get into real estate? Yeah, to be honest with you, I really don't know much about it.

Okay, Henry, Henry, I feel like- Help me, help you. Well, yeah, I just feel like there's a lot of, I don't really know, I don't really know, I don't really know, I don't really know. So before I make any big decisions, before I move, before I apply for schools, before I change positions and change jobs,

you and your wife, y'all need to really sit down and like solidify some of this. And you're in no rush, right? There's no one like holding your feet to the fire for this. So don't feel like, oh my gosh, I have to figure this out in a month. No, you're okay. Like take a deep breath,

but you guys need to have some more concrete ideas of what you want and where the direction you know you want, you need to do a lot of research to figure out, okay, what is the reality of what I want? I wanna be a real estate agent. What's the reality of that? I don't need an MBA, I need a real estate license. I need to go out to coffee with a few realtors

in the area who are killing it. And I need to start like, you know, I need to start chasing down that dream. Or I want to do something else. I just, I just don't want you wandering into something like an MBA and going and spending so much money. When in reality in two years, you realize, I don't even need this, but you didn't really know.

And so you just ended up there. Does that make sense? So I do want some concrete plans for you guys that are based in reality. Yeah, well, I don't want you to confuse movement with progress. Cause you can be doing a lot of movement. Put that on a bumper sticker, George Camel.

You know, it's the treadmill, right? I'm running, I'm not going anywhere, but I am moving. I feel like I'm burning a sweat, Rachel. That's good, that's good. And so that's how I feel about your situation, Henry. You're in a good spot, but right now you're just sort of searching. You know, sort of a big life change upon you.

Your parents are offering this very generous thing. Your new wife wants one thing, you're wanting another. We need to get fully aligned and do this from a place of strength and patience instead of desperation and chaos. And right now it feels like desperation and chaos. So we wanna help with that. I'm going to send you our friend Ken Coleman's book,

Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It comes with a Get Clear Career Assessment, and that's gonna really give you some clarity. And it's probably gonna push you to go, ah, I really don't need an MBA right now. Like unless the exact job you wanna do requires an MBA and no employer will hire you without it, then I would say, we don't need to do this.

I hope that helps, man. I appreciate the call and thank you for your fandom. It really means a lot. People are gonna think I paid Henry for that level of endorsement, the hooting and hollering. I mean, he loved you, George. And he wouldn't, you know. A lot of people.

Such a likable guy, you are, George Campbell. Just a likable guy. I think this is an honest question from Henry. He's in a new phase of life. He's excited. He's a little bit scared. He wants to be the provider. He wants to start the family.

He wants to be a homeowner. He wants to make his wife happy. We wanna do a lot of good things at once. Yes. But we need that focus and just calm clarity. Yes, yes. And that takes time. And lots of options in all of these scenarios too.

That's another big thing. Don't get locked into one avenue and it's like, that's it. Like when you're looking for a place to live, when you're like, oh, this is the one home, this is the only home, then you make really bad decisions because you have no other options, right? So like, oh, this is the one home, this is the only home, then you make really bad decisions because you have no other options, right?

So even if he chooses to go the MBA route, lots of options in schools, lots of different tuitions, like have lots of options in these areas and that helps you create peace too in your decision making. Beautifully said, great way to wrap this hour. Thank you to my co-host, Rachel Cruz, all the guys in the booth keeping the show afloat today, and you America. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously.