The Ramsey Show - App - Co-Signing on a Loan Is ALWAYS a Bad Idea (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

This is the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win in your life, winning with your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. That's the goal. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me.

And we're here together for you this hour, taking your money calls. George will take lead on those. And then how about your income situation, your professional path? Are you making enough money? You want to make more? I'm here to help with that. So we'll combine together to help you out. Let's get started this hour with Emma, who joins us in Provo, Utah. Emma, how can we help today? Hi, thanks for having me. You bet.

What's up? I've been married two and a half years, and my husband and I have two homes between us. And up until last month, we've done our finances about 90% separate. And I'm just not sure where to go from here. I've accumulated $20,000 in debt, and I'm really struggling to pay it off. I make $31,000 a year. Okay. Let's go back a second. I want to go back here and get some details on this. You guys have two homes, and you said up until, I thought you said two months ago, 90% of your income, I mean 90% of your finances were separate. I don't quite understand that. Are you guys living in different houses?

Yes. For how long have you been doing this? The entirety of your marriage, or is this a new development? The entirety of our marriage. So is this a new development? The entirety of our marriage. So are you married? Like, really? That's how it, yeah. Can I ask a weird question?

Why did you get married? Well, a couple weeks ago, my husband shared with me that he actually didn't want to get married, that he was too afraid to tell me because he would hurt my feelings and so i've wondered that um we did have a plan to find a home together that kind of met halfway and we'd both compromised and that has since been blown out the window since we've been married so i've just uh we've both been just trying to make it so this whole thing was built on a lie to avoid hurting your feelings um that's how it feels yeah so you got so you guys get married do you go on a honeymoon no so no honeymoon and from day one he had his house and you had your house i'm actually

in a rental yes oh so you're renting yeah we're 30 minutes apart. I'm so confused. Yeah, I am too. I'm going to keep digging, George. So the house that he lives in, are you on the deed for that, the title? Did you own that together, or is it his house? No, it's his house. And this is what I've struggled with and why I wanted to call is I've really struggled financially since we've become married. I've changed my jobs, trying to contribute the best that I can. And he does help me now,

but I've had to, you know, ask for help and I don't want to put him down, but I have had to ask for it. Does he know that you make 30 grand, you've been going 20 grand to debt, you can't afford your life, you're continually unable to make ends meet and what does he say um he says things to be you well he doesn't want to be married let's be honest he just he told you how long ago was this and he said hey i i never wanted to be married this was just i just said yes i didn't want to upset you. How long ago did that conversation happen? That was two weeks ago. Yeah, I think from there we're operating from that statement.

This is not even a situation where I would say there's counseling. This has never been a marriage. Yeah, I've been in counseling the last two and a half years. What is your therapist telling you? Kind of what you're telling me, but my husband assures me this is where he wants to be. He just has a slow time moving forward. Assures you this is where he wants to be? Like, this is what he wants his life to look like? No, I don't think it does, but he continues to want to keep trying. I'm not sure we trust the things he says anymore. There is no trying.

Do you guys even have, oh boy, I can't even believe I'm going to say this. He doesn't want to make this work. No, I need to know. Is there any marital intimacy at all, or do we have a conjugal visit? You guys live in separate houses. Yeah, we go back and forth, and I have sat with him to have the financial conversation. So wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

So that is happening? Yes, that is happening. Well, this is even more bizarre. It's just like a friends with benefits with a legal arrangement. That's exactly what I'm getting at. Is that fair? And your therapist is telling you that you need to get out? He hasn't said that specifically, but he has acknowledged that my husband has been stuck in the past.

It's been two and a half years of counseling. How have we not come to a decision? Listen, I'm not upset at you, Emma. I'm upset at this guy. I think this is manipulation. This is so wacky. This is not a marriage. George nailed it.

It's friends with benefits in a legal arrangement. I would have to assume there's other women in his life at this point. He's not getting what he needs even emotionally from you. I don't think he wants emotion from her. This is a dude who told you two weeks ago he never wanted to be married, but we're doing the conjugal thing. This is wacky emma if i listen i'm trying to act like your older brother right now i would be like no

this doesn't make any sense this is not a marriage you're you're not happy are you um no i've i've struggled i've this has been a hard i think there may be some sunk cost fallacy here and there might be some shame spiraling i've spent all this time trying to make this work but it's not working and it's been two and a half years and here you are struggling with debt not making a lot of money i think we need to i'm not going to tell you on air to you know cut ties with him you need to make that decision for yourself. But I would strongly figure out what life looks like for Emma on her own as she starts a new chapter.

Which means he has to decide to actually be married. Why in the world you are renting a place when he has a house and you're his wife? Does he not want you living there? Well, that's partly my fault. In my divorce, my kids have to go to school at the school district where I'm at. I have four kids at home. He doesn't have any. And my kids did not, I know it's not all about my children, but I felt like it would hurt our relationship to move them over there into a new school district and everything,

which I couldn't do anyway. So I do my best to just meet his needs and go back and forth. It sounds like he's getting any benefit, as literal as there is, and you're getting zero. And he sounds controlling and manipulative. And as soon as you bring up this conversation again, he's going, well, you know, we can make it work. What do you need you know, we can make it work. What do you need? Okay, we'll figure this out.

Even though he's already told you he doesn't want any part in this. Yeah, we can't keep skipping over what he said to you two weeks ago. Well, he said that, but then he says now that he wants to be here and he wants to work it out. I don't care what he says. What is he doing? Then he needs to sell his house and move in with you. Unless his actions reflect all of this in the next week, this is not going to go anywhere. He's going to say whatever he needs to say to get out of the

conversation. No, he's saying what, let me tell you, I'm going to give you the real, real. He's saying whatever he needs to say so that he can keep up this crazy arrangement. Bachelor all week and then I get to play husband when it suits me, if you know what I'm saying. I mean, let's be honest. So he needs to, if you can't legally get the kids out of the school district, and they've got to go to school where they are, then he, as your husband, needs to go, I'm coming to you. And I'm going to be married to you.

That would require being a man, and currently he is a child. Yikes. So I don't know that we can get that to happen. But you've got to be married to you. That would require being a man and currently he's a child. Yikes. So I don't know that we can get that to happen, but you've got to create your own life. You're going to have to get the income up, get out of the debt and plan to do this on your own. Can we get her a session with a financial coach? Yes, please. Hang on the line, Christian. We're going to get you, Emma, with one of our financial coaches because in the midst of all of this, you have to get your finances in shape to take care of you and those kiddos. So we're going to walk you through that. We're going to be with you the whole way. This is The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show continues. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman.

George Campbell joins me. We're here for you, taking your questions this hour. Let's go to Toronto, where Benjamin awaits. Benjamin, how can we help? Hi, George and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up? I have been listening to the show for a few months now, and I know the attitude there towards whole life insurance policies. I have one that's fully paid up that my parents purchased for me when I was young. It's fully paid up now. And I'm just trying to decide whether I should surrender it and invest the cash surrender value, or at this point, should I just keep it going given my age?

What is your age? I'm in my early 40s now. Okay. And what is the policy worth? What's the death benefit? At the time it was for $100,000, but now because it's self-sufficient, it keeps adding on to the value for it. And I believe it's close to about $120,000 now. So $120,000 is the cash value? No, it's the death benefit on it. So the death benefit's $120,000 now. So $120,000 is the cash value? No, it's the death benefit on it. So the death benefit's $120,000. What is the cash value? The cash value is, I believe, just over $15,000. Okay. And have you paid money into this? Who's been continually paying? I paid it for the last year that it was active. And then ever since then, it's just being covered by the dividends.

Okay. If I'm in your shoes, I'm going to surrender this policy. I'll take the cash value. But before you do that, you need to get term life insurance in place. And even in your 40s... I do have that in place already. Oh, great. What's the policy? It's for $650,000 for myself and $500,000 for

my wife. Perfect. Okay. And what's your incomes? Right now, I'm at about $90,000 a year and she's at about $40,000. Okay. And where are you guys at financially in the baby steps? Are you debt free? Yeah, actually, that's probably the best part. Fortunately, we are safe for car note, but we are mortgage free and we have no other expenses other than our month to month. That's amazing. Yeah you don't need that $15,000, just cash it out and you can invest that, and it'll turn into six figures later for you in retirement. I mean, I wasn't sure. Like, at this point, it's not that I don't need the money. I could certainly use it in other areas of my life,

and money approximately doubles every seven years or or so given sort of basic formulas i wasn't sure whether to take it out now and maybe have a shot at enjoying it in this life or using it exactly you know at this point i just leave it you don't need the extra death benefit of the 120 on that whole life policy it's not going to do much for you anyways and i imagine the fees will continue to eat away at that versus watching it grow. You can do better investing it on your own than what the life insurance company is doing. Yeah, that's what I would think. So it's really like, I think it's just over 2% with what they're doing with it right now. I could even put that in a high yield.

Oh my goodness, yeah. You'll get 5% with a high yield savings account. I would absolutely cash this out. Your parents were doing a sweet, kind thing. It was a very expensive way to get pretty terrible coverage and ROI, but it's okay. Avoid the sunk cost fallacy. Just cash it out. Live your life.

You're doing great. All right, good stuff there. All right, let's go next to New York City. Joe is there. Joe, how can we help? Hi, yeah, so my question is around, I moved from Florida to New York because I have a special needs fund and there's more services in New York and I couldn't make more money. I've been saving for emergencies into a high yield savings account, but it's starting to cause a bit of a tax liability in terms of that extra

income and interest. So I was wondering, should I opt more for a brokerage account for my emergency fund or... What's your game plan with this money that you've been saving? It's sort of like my emergency fund for any issues. Like I said, I have a special needs fund, so I don't have some debt around medical costs and things like that. I do have debt that I have to take care of, but I just wanted to make sure just in case of an emergency, something happened, that I have access to money. How much debt do you have? Between my student loans and some medical bills and some personal loans, about $100,000.

Okay, and how much is in the savings account? I have about $25,000. Okay. So when you're talking about a tax liability, you're not going to pay much on this. The $25,000 is growing at what interest rate right now? Well, you know, the growing rate right now is about 4.98. 4.3 is what you said it is on yours? No, 4.98. Oh, 4.98. Okay, so we'll call it 5%, right? So let's actually crunch the numbers to show you.

That's $12.50 a year, and divided by, you know, monthly, it's about $104 a month. Now, you're not going to pay taxes. You're going to pay, you know, monthly, it's about 104 bucks a month. Now, you're not going to pay taxes. You're going to pay, you know, your tax rate on that extra $1,250 for the year, $1,250, which is going to be 200 bucks. Okay. So I don't think this is worth worrying about over a $200, you know, extra that you would pay in taxes for that income. Just like if you got a raise, we're not going to tell you,

well, don't take the raise because you're going to have to pay more in taxes. It's the same idea. Okay. I wouldn't worry about that. I would focus on paying off your debt because that's going to put you in a better financial position for the future to take care of your son, to have no payments. So I would be aggressively trying to tackle that.

What's your income? About $80,000 a year. Great. So what is your payoff plan to get rid of the $100,000 in debt? Considering the snowball method, then it's kind of expensive in New York. I would highly suggest that one. So let's say you make $80,000 net. You've got $100,K in debt. Can we

clean this debt up in two and a half years? What are you thinking? If I could do it quicker, that'd be great. It'd give me so much peace of mind. Agreed. And so I would be less concerned about the savings account. If you follow the baby steps, baby step one is a thousand bucks, then baby step two is debt snowball. Obviously, you have a special needs child. I would try to forecast what kind of medical bills we might have, what are the actual costs associated with taking care of this child that we actually need in the bank. And you might realize it's less than you think.

I guess over the years, you just kind of get a little bit worried, so you want to have a nest egg just in case. I agree. But I think the worry should be more focused on that $100,000 in debt versus the future cost, because that's going to free up a lot of payments when you look at it. What are all those payments add up to on the $100,000 right now? Just the minimums.

Between the loans, you can give or take like $1,000 a month. So you would give yourself a $1,000 raise just by getting rid of this debt. Yeah. Think of that as $1,000 margin. And peace. Flexibility. So I would consider taking a chunk of that savings account and trying to chip away at some of this debt,

especially those smallest balances, and then just keep what you need. Maybe that's the max out-of-pocket for the deductible on the healthcare plan, what have you. But I think we're doing a lot at once right now, and I want you to make progress instead. Absolutely. Thank you for the call, Joe. All right, George, here's a fun question of the day for you from Caitlin in Florida. Boy, oh boy. I may need to give you a Tums right before this. All right. I co-signed on two vehicles with my now ex-boyfriend. Our relationship ended

two and a half years ago in a domestic violence situation. He kept possession of the vehicles but has stopped making payments on them. The loan companies have been trying

to repossess the vehicles but have not been able to locate him to do so. And now I've been sent a letter saying that if I don't pay the loans or hand over the vehicles, they will be pursuing

legal action against me. I don't know what to do. George, what would you say to Kalen? I would be tracking this guy. I hope you find my iPhone on him, and I would get those cars back to those people so they don't come after you. But at the end of the day, here's the TLDR,

the too-long-didn't-read. Here it is, SparkNotes. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. And this guy's a deadbeat. He owes money on the cars. You owe money on the cars because you co-signed, which is the reason we say

never co-sign anything, especially with someone you're not married to. And so the only way against this is getting those cars back to the loan company. It feels like a bad show

on USA or something. Like a bounty hunter type show. That's what I think. Let's go find this guy. I think you gotta go find some seedy, redneck bounty hunter to find this guy. You owe the money. And until you get the collateral back to them

because you stopped paying, it's not gonna solve this. Find him. Find him now, Gatlin. This is gonna be like, taken. Yeah. I have a special set of skills. It's gotta be somebody in the Everglades down there in Florida. That's what they do for a living. They just find people. Don't you think?

This is the Ramsey Show. Helping you win with your money, win with your salary, win with your relationships. This is the Ramsey Show. Thrilled that you are with us. My name is Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins

me this hour. Phone number is 888-825-5225. George, what's the best way to make the most of your money? Is this a trick question? Could be if you don't answer it properly. Budget. Final answer. Budgeting. That is correct, sir. And I used to think, Ken, that budgets

were like for broke people and Excel-loving accountants. And it turns out I was broke until I started doing a budget. And it was actually a major key that helped me go from negative net worth, broke, stressed, frustrated, to net worth millionaire. And it's not because a budget's magic. It's because it gives you a plan on paper for where your money's going to go. And that's why we created EveryDollar. It's a budgeting app that you can get in the app store.

It makes it super simple to plan your spending. You get your income, your expenses. You can even drag transactions in, connect it to your bank. There's all kinds of cool features. Super easy to use. If you've got a spouse, they can log in and have that transparency and accountability. And it really becomes freedom to spend. And you just actually made a plan for it instead of going, well, we make good money and I don't know where any of it's going. It's because you're not paying attention. And that's what a budget does. It helps you keep a pulse on spending, helps you make progress on your goals.

So go check it out, everydollar.com slash George. You can get started for free. And thank me later when you're a millionaire making progress. Look at you. Very bold, bold prediction. That's a bold prediction. I like it. I like it a lot.

How about Andrew? Andrew's joining a lot. How about Andrew? Andrew's joining us now in Baltimore, Maryland, rather. Andrew, how can we help? Hey, yeah. So I'm thinking about buying a house, but also at the same time looking for a career change. I already know what that career change should be, but it's going to be a lot more variable pay, less pay, but it's like a chasing your dreams job. So I'm curious, you know, if buying a house, even though I can afford it now, it's still, you know, a wise investment.

Now, what does that mean? I can afford it now in light of the variable income of this new play? Can you give us a little more detail? Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like 25. I have like 200K saved up and that's across different types of investments and savings accounts and whatever. So, you know, I can afford the down payment with, you know, we're in the spare. You know, my goal is to get, you know, like a three bedroom house and rent out two rooms. Um, how much is the house going to cost? Uh, ideally like 300k. Okay. So 20%, so you got the 60, the 20% easy. And then you said, we, is that you and your wife renting this thing out? Oh, is it just you? Just me. Yeah. yeah yeah i don't even know why i said we then uh and i may not have heard you reminding me yeah right oh i apologize yeah salt in the wound too

soon too soon uh no shame in your game man i'm sure there's plenty of lovely ladies that would love to meet you uh my question is um uh what is the the variable in this new industry? What is this industry and what's the variable look like? Yeah, so basically currently I'm a comedian on the side and that's paying decently, but not enough to actually live off of quite yet. So variable in that sense is it changes month to month. Did you go all in on this? Did you go all in?

Did I go? Not yet. Okay, but that's what, so the way you presented this is, I'm getting ready to go into this new thing, and it's going to be variable. My question is, why? Mentally, I'm fully committed to it. I can't necessarily quit a job until I have more ways to make money yet. Perfect.

That's going to be my response. Yeah. I wouldn't actually fully go into being full-time comedian until the opportunity is there. And it'll be obvious. What are you making right now per month? What do you take home? From a normal job,

whatever that comes out to be, about like $10K per month on my standard job and about $2K per month in stand-up. Okay, great. Is that all local gigs or are you doing them regionally now? Both. Good. What do you anticipate? I know this is an impossible question, but just for fun, what do you think? Knowing what you know now, you've dabbled in it, you're obviously good enough to where you're getting some regional gigs, what do you think it's going to look like, how long to get the amount of gigs you would need to get

to make the money you're making in your day job? Probably, I mean, that could change overnight but if I'm going to be hyper realistic another 4 to 5 years yeah George for that reason and by the way I think that's very realistic Andrew I really like that answer

George I don't think I'd buy the house right now if you really want to do comedy, now is probably not the time to saddle up and get a house because you're going to be on the road for most of the year anyways, right? True. And so that's the question. What's the urgency to buy the house versus pursue comedy?

It sounds like you'd rather pursue comedy and just rent and you'll be okay. And keep the $60,000. And if you're going to do this house, let me give you these parameters. No more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed, which means if you put 60K down on a 300, that's going to be about 2,500 bucks a month, which you can afford if you make 10K, 12K a month take-home. It's too much. Or you can put 150 down, put half 50% down.

Your payment comes down to 1,700, which allows you to do more comedy, less full-time, and have a little more wiggle room with your finances. Or, can I give option three? I like it. Keep working this day job. The comedy grows. I know, I know. I know you're a smart guy, but I'm just saying, I would build this thing up and I would save my cash. Can you get the comedy to five or 6K a month? Then you're like, okay, I know this thing up and I would save my cash. Can you get the comedy to $5,000 or $6,000 a month? Then you're like, okay, I know this is viable. You can't buy the house until you know what full-time comedy looks like. So you don't even know what that's going to look like.

And I think at the age of 25, I love that you're going for it. And you're single in 25. What if you move to L.A. or New York or one of the more comedy hubs? Yeah. Or what if you find this one market, you go, I end up flying through this city, making this up, Nashville. 60% of my gigs, I end up flying through Nashville or Atlanta. My point is, is as this thing takes off and you get to a point where you're full time, then I'd think about a house arrangement. But until then, I would rent and

stack your money. Take the pressure off. I think you just have too many variables in your life right now. And a house is a long-term purchase. You want to be able to stay there for five plus years to make it worth it. Yeah. Right. Right. And for those reasons, I would pause.

But you're doing great. Yeah. Good for you. Good for you. You're amazing, dude. Send me a DM with your comedy info. I want to check it out and see when you're in town. I was going to say.

Did you ever get to Nashville to do a show? What are your handles? Because I'll be honest, I'm a poor viewer. That's all right. George K-A-M-E-L. George Camel with a K on Instagram and everywhere else. So send me a message. Have you done a show in Nashville yet?

I'm actually coming August 1st. Where are you going to be? Thursday. Where? Zany's. Yes! George loves Zanies. Yes! George loves Zanies. He's a regular. I think we should be there.

George, will you remind me to go and let's support Andrew? I'm marking my calendar. I've never been more excited. I need you to mark my calendar, too, because of the two of us, Andrew, I'm the disaster of details. George, it's a Thursday night.

I'll get the tickets. This is very exciting. I'll pave my way. I'll even get you a beverage. What a guy. Well, there's a two-item minimum, so you're going to need two. That'll pave my way. I'll even get you a beverage. What a guy. Well, there's a two-item minimum, so you're going to need two. I'll get me and you, you goofball. You guys are well-versed.

Oh, yeah. I was just there last week. I saw Theo Vaughn. Oh, yeah. Hilarious. That's right. It was great. George and I were at the Seinfeld.

And that's right. The next night. The very next night, yeah. Look at us comedy buffs. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Who's your favorite comedian, Andrew?

Me. All right. I like that answer. on yeah uh right now yeah right now let's go mr big shot i'd say joe list oh yeah list okay very good all right fantastic very exciting well uh andrew we're very excited for you please do what we say because i think it's going to make your comedy career a whole lot less stressful. Yes, so do. So I just won't do anything. I would not buy a house right now.

George and I are in agreement. Keep that money invested. Let it grow. Keep stacking on top of that and who knows, maybe one day you can pay cash for the house. Yeah, I like that. That'd be pretty sweet. Tell you what, what we need to do is you need to send Andrew, if he's going to connect you on the gram, you need to send him some of your ideas.

Some of my comedy bits? Maybe I can open for him? Maybe you open for him. Maybe he pulls you up there for two minutes. That would be a real treat. Because I'm going to be there. I'm putting a little pressure on Andrew to get George up there. Maybe we get old Kenny boy up there.

I'll tell you. Give him a tight five. I'll do an I gotta tell you. I'll just do a rant on there. I'll tell you. Give him a tight five. I'll do an I got to tell you. I'll just do a rant on all my I got to tell you's about all things that irritate me. Anytime Ken says I got to tell you to start a sentence, it's going to be a good story. I love it. Oh, my goodness. We're just getting started, folks.

Don't move. Quick break. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. The phone number is 888- million dollars that before I apparently started listening to you guys, my mortgage, uh, from $900 a month has gone up to about $4,500 a month and I'm just trying, I'm just very concerned because I've been constantly listening to you guys and Dave to see, okay, what's the best way to tackle some of this. I've got two

investment property in my family house and I'm trying to combine all and, you know, with the current market, I just don't feel like I should sell. So what would be the best advice in terms of getting financially out of the situation, I guess? So when you say you have a million dollars in debt, is that consumer debt or are you including all of these mortgages? Just the mortgages. I had some car loans as soon as I started listening. I had the money already saved up. So I paid off my car. It was about $1,200 in the car loan that was left. I was planning to buy another car. I stopped that already.

So I've got a two under three-year-old baby. So I was planning to buy a minivan. Already stopped that plan. Okay. So you have no consumer debt. You just have a mortgage and then a rental mortgage and another rental mortgage. Correct. And you're saying your total payments add up to $4,500 a month, or is that just on the one mortgage? Just on my primary house mortgage. Both the other houses, the investment properties are

more or less self-sustaining. The other one, I have got a bit of a positive cash flow for about $900 a month. Okay. So if you sold both rentals, what would you net after paying off the loans? I would probably have $60,000 additional because I bought all those houses maybe around the peak. One of the houses around the peak of the market. So I may have to sell for maybe a little bit less. Yes. And then the current house, the previous house, I may make about $120,000 on that. So why did you say your mortgage went from $900,000 to $4,500,000 on that. So why did you say your mortgage went from $900 to $4,500? So I used to live in one of the properties that I'm renting right now. I just moved last year. Okay. And you have a wife? Yes, I do have a wife. She was working before the maternity leave. Now she's no longer working because of the two kids.

Okay. So just your income, what do you make a year? I make about $160,000 a year. Okay, and that's before any rent? I'm sure the rental income isn't much at this point. Like you said, it's barely cash flowing. Yeah, I got maybe about $900 from one house. That's a good month. You called in because you don't want to be in debt anymore. And so to pay off these, you know, to have your, you know, the idea is people get into real estate investment thinking, well, the renter is going to pay my mortgage. So it'll just be super easy and no stress. Well, as you know, it doesn't really work out like that. And so that you have a few options. Number one is you just tackle these mortgages on these rentals, or you sell the one you like

the least and you start to help. I would, if I'm in your shoes, I would probably just start from scratch, get rid of the rentals, pay down your primary home, because $4,500 a month is not sustainable for your income. I agree. I make about $10,000 a month. So half of your income is going to the mortgage. Yes. Which tells me there's no way to, we're not going to be able to get this mortgage lower unless we just sell and downsize. Could you sell and downsize

to a different home? I would rather not since it's something that I bought for the kids and I'm trying to live this. For the kids, they're two years old. They don't know what, they won't remember this house. Don't say it's for the kids. The kids are going to watch you and mom be in stress for the rest of your life because half

of your income is going towards this house it was a very hard decision to buy the house and i just don't feel but yeah i think i think you're right okay well you tell me what do you want to do yeah yeah i want to be financially free that's all but what do you want to do? Yeah, I want to be financially free, that's all. But what do you want to do? What is your next step? Let's say you hang up today and you say, forget those guys on the show, who I called to get their opinion. You tell me what you think is the best move for you. So I've got about $650,000 on my primary house as a mortgage,

and the rest is on those two houses. So even if I were to sell those two houses, I could make a bit of a dent on my primary house and get maybe a bit lower on the mortgage and then start to pay off maybe like every year I could save maybe about 60, 70,000 and start to pay maybe in the five-year plan. Or the other option, like you said, is just downsizing to a smaller house

or maybe move to my older house, which is the one that's cash flowing about $900 a month. So now tell me, which of those plans gets you the most peace in the quickest amount of time? I think selling my current home would. I may have to take a big hit though, about $120,000 on that one if I were to sell it. Because you can't get what you paid for it? Yes, sir. You can pause as long as you want to make this decision, but half of your income is going toward that mortgage and these properties aren't cash flowing, which means

you're losing money. It's adding stress to your life. I would sell the rentals, take that 60. I would sell your house, take that 120. That gives you 180 to put on your next residence as you downgrade. And hopefully we can get that mortgage lower to about 2,500 on a 15-year fix. That's your sweet spot making 10K a month. Yeah. That's the problem to solve for. don't know that i mean i wish that

i could change the numbers and stamp my fingers dave i want to be helpful but there's a lot of just a lot of debt and you can undo a lot of it because it's just sitting there in the properties but i don't think continuing down this path is going to be a blessing for you i just wish my wife would have started working maybe with uh with the kids maybe she was making about a hundred thousand dollars before which is not dave it feels like dave it feels like george laid this thing out for you about as clear as anybody could lay out and you're just sitting there in pain realizing how dumb your decisions were and then you're then as soon as he lays that out and he's just going,

look, you can get out of this. It's going to be painful, but it's more painful to stay in it. You're laughing about it. And then your first comment is, I wish my wife had been making more money. Like, I feel like it's lost on you what is going on here, which is just owning the fact that you didn't make some good decisions. And now you've got a chance to get out of it. It's going to be painful, but you've got to do it.

It just feels like you're not – I mean, again, you do what you want to do, but it doesn't feel like you really locked in and accepted personal responsibility. Am I right or am I wrong? Yes, you are right, sir. And I'm sorry if I'm laughing. No, no, no, no. You can laugh all you want to. You know, one of the things that I was just listening in maybe previous calls was like looking at some of these Instagram realtors and, you know, trying to get into the real estate.

And that's how I got into this. You saw an Instagram reel and they were like, you need to get investment property now. There's a crazy idea. I watched an Instagram reel and got myself stuck. Any Instagram reel that causes a million dollar mistake is one worth unfollowing. Yeah. So I'm glad you learned the lesson. But Dave, I guess I'm trying to just lay it on you here. I'm trying to spur you to action. Stop talking about your wife and her making a hundred and not making a hundred. You got into

this because you watched the wrong Instagram accounts. You got into this because you watched the wrong Instagram accounts. You got into this because you wanted to get rich quick. Yes. I know. So it's okay. There's no shame. All right. And you will survive this. This is not life or death. You're not in a crisis situation, but we need to make some drastic changes. And whether you do that now or three months from now and hope the market does whatever, I don't know what the market's going to do. It may get worse for a while before it gets better. But I do know this, your life is real tight right now. And you got two little babies and you want to see them flourish and grow and you want to have joy. I don't want to see you distracted by money

stress during that as they grow up. They're not going to remember the house. I promise. They're going to remember their dad being there, making eye contact, and they channel your energy. It's contagious. Their nervous system will take on the stress that you have. Yeah, so true. Yeah, I was just kind of hoping there's one more Instagram reel. Dave was like, maybe there's one more I can watch. Maybe it's kind of George Light. Unless it's me talking about real estate, telling you not to do it unless you're ready, maybe unsubscribe. Unfollow that account. Keep scrolling. Good stuff there, George. Good advice. I love it when you get tough. You know, when I don't feel good, I get just a little grumpy. Yeah, a little grumpy. I'm sorry, America. Go get some Mets. This is the Ramsey Show. 🎵