The Ramsey Show - App - College Is Worth It, Without The Loans (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

Kristina Ellis & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss:   What to do when you don't have the motivation to finish your degree, from the blog: Is College Worth It? What parent should do when it comes to paying for their kids college, from the blog: How to Pay for College Without Student Loans What to do with debt when finishing college, "Should I pull from my 401(k) to pay off student loans and remodel our home?" from the blog: The High Price of a 401(k) Withdrawal How you should handle whenever you and your spouse don't agree on finances, from the blog: What to Do When Spouses Don't Agree on Money Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, Christina Ellis, joined today by my fellow Ramsey personality and friend, Rachel Cruz. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Give us a call. Let's chat. First up, we've got Aaron calling from Tampa, Florida. Hey, Aaron, welcome to the show. Hello, how are you guys doing today? We're doing well, how are you? Just peachy. Well, I'm calling because I have a little bit of a dilemma in regard to what I want to do for my further education.

So to give a little bit of backstory, I have two associate's degrees and a professional certification in aircraft maintenance, which is, as far as I know, as far as I've determined so far, my dream career. And in the process of getting this degree, my father got a benefit from the V8 where I would be afforded the opportunity to go to a four-year degree, a bachelor's degree, completely paid for. But what I'm coming into now is I'm working part-time as a mechanic, and I'm loving the work, and I do my schoolwork, and my eyes glaze over.

I have zero motivation. I go into work, and I'm bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. And it feels like because this opportunity is available and free that I'm floundering it by not taking it. So I'm not sure if I should drop out and continue on with the career. Do you need the degree to do what you want to do? I do not.

I have had these certifications to do what I want to do for about four years now. Then I would love to know Christina's thoughts. I'm like, then leave, Aaron. Drop out of school. You're fine. You have the qualifications of what you need to go make money doing what you love.

And just because something is free doesn't mean that it's a good deal for you. I mean, you know, it's awesome that you had the opportunity and I'm sure a lot of people would love that, but in your specific situation, you don't need it. And so there's no, there's no point unless it's furthering your education for you to use a certification later on in the same fee, you know, you can keep going on with that. But if it's not, what are you getting the degree in? General business administration. Just for the heck of it? You know, because it was because the opportunity came? Essentially, I figured it wouldn't hurt if I go into the future and I have it. But at the same time, I have no motivation

to continue. I've been working in a small business for six years at this point. Yeah. How much how much school do you have left? Two more years in the four year already. Again, I have two associates and I could if I drop out, I could go into a job tomorrow making $35 an hour. Well, you are the example of why the four-year degree is not everything. We are all about people getting an education so that they can reach the career that they want, but you've already done that. It's not like you're somebody who doesn't have an education and you can't reach the dream job. You have two associates degrees, you got your certifications, you can't reach the dream job. You have two associate's degrees, you got your certifications, and you're working your dream job. And whenever you go back to college, let's say you do that four-year degree, there's still ROI on that. And if it's not going

to increase your pay in your current job in your dream field, you also could be losing the opportunity to spend more hours working in the job that you love, building more credibility, advancing your career. And so just I think there's a little bit of that feeling of it's what I should do, right? It's what America says is the path that you have to go to be successful. You have to get a four-year degree. You have to do that. And that's just, that's not true. And especially since it's free, that pressure feels like, oh, gosh, then I there's no option. I have to take this because it's free. And it feels like, yeah, that you have to for some reason. Right. With the pressure Christina was saying.

So do you do you have outside pressure? Like you said, it was through your dad. Does he is he kind of pushing that narrative that you need to go back to school? He was for a while. I talked to him about it yesterday and he said he'd support me either way I go. And my significant other feels the same way. She said, do your dream. You don't act the same on the days you do go to school versus the days you work.

The days I go to school, I'm just bitter and negative, and it's just not a good, not a good time for me. So, yeah. And I wouldn't base this decision off of your emotions in the moment because it's short. It's, it's a, you know, it's a fairly short amount of time. Right. So if you, even if you had to grind it out for two years and you were miserable in those days, you'd get through it and then you'd have your degree and you could keep going. But the reason it's not, I'm, I'm saying this not because you're not happy on days that you're going to school, but because you just don't need it, Aaron.

Like you just don't you don't need it. So I would I would drop out and and thank your dad. Be gracious. Be grateful because of his service. So they tell him thank you for his service from us because of his service. You know, you were given that opportunity and that you're grateful for it. But but the course of your life, Aaron, yeah, you don't you don't't need it. And what's so interesting, I posted something the other day about student loans on Instagram. And I had several comments from people where they were like, I went into

so much debt and I'm not even using my degree. And yet I have friends who didn't go to college in a four-year school and they're making six figures. They're doing amazing and they have zero student loan debt. So we really have to buck up against this idea that everyone has to get a four-year degree, that everyone needs to go to school, that it is the ticket, that it is the key that's going to make you successful because that's just not true. We love education. I love, obviously, I help people go to school debt-free. I built my career on that, but I'm still not going to say that it's for everyone. We need mechanics. We need people who are in the trades, who are working hard, and who we literally depend on every day.

And so I think you are such a great example, Erin, of somebody who doesn't necessarily need a four-year degree. I think actually that could potentially be kind of a waste of time and potentially not ROI. That's the feeling that I have been feeling as well, that I could be making more money and getting the experience needed to further my career. It was just hard for me to rationalize that. Oh, it's only two more years. Oh, I'll have it in the end. I can do if something happens and I could do something else. But I can't really see myself using the degree in the future. Well, it's a good question. And I think that it's wise for you to work all the way through it, because for some people, like you said, Rachel, there are situations where people

just aren't motivated. School sometimes can be not fun. And ultimately, in the long run, they need to push through in order to get to that dream career. There are situations where it's just not going to be fun. You have to go to class, maybe chemistry or trigonometry. It's not going to be the most exciting thing, but it's a means to an end. So for sure, if you are looking into a career where you need that degree and you feel grumpy when you go to class, you may just need to push through it. I've had classes in college that I didn't enjoy that I went to anyways. However, that does not mean that's true for everyone. I love this question to stop in the moment and go, hey, is this necessary? Is a degree necessary for all of you who are about to go to

college or especially for people who are thinking about grad school, it's really important to sit down and look at the numbers. Look at the long-term ROI. Is this degree worth it? Is it going to pay off? It could be yes, but don't just blindly go just because you feel like it's the right next step that you quote-unquote should do. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Teksting av Nicolai Winther welcome back to the ramsey show we're all feeling the strain of inflation these days but i want you to know you can still have financial peace even when the prices of groceries are rising through the roof. That's why I'm going on the Building Wealth Tour live with Dave and our team of personalities. Join us as we share the proven plan for your money so you can build wealth and have peace no matter what's going on in the economy. On February 16th, we'll be in Indianapolis with Dave Ramsey, George Camel, and Jade Warshaw.

Next, the tour is heading to Austin on February 23rd with Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, John Deloney, and Jade Warshaw. On April 24th, catch me, Dave Ramsey, George Camel in Salt Lake City. And our final stop of the tour is in Anaheim on May 2nd with Dave, Ken, Deloney and me. Tickets start at $49 or you can get a pack of four tickets starting at $175. Go to ramsaysolutions.com

slash events to reserve your seats now. And I'll be in Indianapolis. I'm like where am I going? They locked you off. And Salt Lake City. I'll be there.apolis. I'm like, where am I going? They locked you off. And Salt Lake City. I'll be there. Yes.

I know. I forgot old Rachel Cruz is going to be on the road too. I'm glad you're on today. These are really fun events though. They really are. Dave does a great keynote at the beginning, really showing the landscape of what building wealth looks like over time, and even taking his learning from history of like, okay, what works,

what doesn't work. And then we all get to sit kind of panel style and talk about current events, like what is going on in the world? How do you build wealth literally in 2023 with everything going on? And so it is it's a really it's a it's a really fun event. It's kind of a different format than what we usually do. But we've done it, I guess, for two seasons now on the road. So yeah, it's great. It's so important, too, because we're coming out of this season where crypto is huge. And all these different investment schemes and ideas and tick tock hacks were big. And now we have inflation and a lot of fear so to be able to come to cities and speak life and truth and hope is just really powerful yeah that's a great point because i'm like you know you think about this time last year when we were in the spring it was it was crypto

the housing market people were freaked out about you know we thought it was gonna be a big you know people thought it was gonna be a bubble and then you fast forward 12 months and it's a totally different set of issues now it's eggs and it's a totally different set of issues. Now it's eggs and chickens. It's how quick things change. It's pretty wild. So we're excited. Come join us. We're ready to chat with you all, have that conversation.

All right, let's go back to the phones. Next up, we have Matthew calling from Bowling Green, Kentucky. Hey, Matthew, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. Hey, thanks for being here. How can we help? Thanks. I just want to let you guys know that I am 19 years old.

I am graduating undergrad in May, completely debt free. And I have some questions about what I'm going to do after that. So I've been accepted to medical school. And that's looking like it's going to be about a $250,000 adventure all in. Right. Um, I do have some savings. Um, it's not really in that ballpark. Um, and I've applied to a lot of scholarships.

Um, but that will at most cover about a hundred grand of that adventure. Um, so my parents have offered to help and they've given me a couple of different ways that they, uh, that they've offered to help me. And I'm just wondering which of these would be best for me in kind of my future financial self. Okay, let's walk through it. All righty. First, they told me that they would be able to pay for my rent throughout the whole time there, so that would be about $1,100 or $1,200 a month.

Or they could take out a mortgage, and they could maybe maybe I would have to cash out all my savings, but they would be willing to pay for everything else, pay the mortgage that they can afford independently. And then after I'm out of medical school, we could sell that house. And instead of having paid that money in rent, I would have built equity in the house and I can apply that money to what will be my student loans there. Okay. This mortgage, would that be on their primary house? Yes, it would.

They are just about ready to pay off their house, actually, and it's something that they can afford within the range of guidelines. I don't know that we'd ever really recommend taking out a mortgage to pay for college, that's that wouldn't be in the ramsey guidelines and i also would say they can't really afford that um we want them to pay off their house and build wealth for their sake um and college for parents is paying for college that's that's optional so first we're going to want to protect their retirement if they have to take a mortgage to pay for college they can't they. They can't afford it. Okay. So tell us, so you're 19 and you just graduate,

you're about to graduate from undergrad? Yes. That's amazing. I've done a lot of scholarships so far and just kind of going through on the borrowed future plan there and looking and seeing just all that stuff has been really inspiring. I'm doing everything I can to sort of eliminate as much debt for my future life as I can. Yeah. How did you go to undergrad debt-free? So actually there was a program here and I was able to get through two years early.

I had really high ACT scores as a sophomore in high school. And so they paid for my first two years of college. Because I chose to stay in state, they told me they'd pay for the rest of it as well your parents would no they're the actual school I got I got full ride scholarship that's great Matthew that's wonderful okay so medical school's coming up and if I wrote down it correctly you had you have a hundred thousand dollars towards it correct with? With scholarships? Thereabout. Okay. And so that means you would have $150,000 left to pay for school, correct? Because it's $250,000 total. And you mentioned some savings. How much is the savings? So the savings actually would be part of that $150,000 that I have there. So I've got $30,000 in savings, $40,000 in savings rather, and about

the potential for about $100,000 in scholarships. But that's still up in the air as of right now. That's wonderful. I just want to stop for a second and say, good job. Like the fact that you already have that savings, the fact that you already have scholarships lined up, you're killing it so far. Thank you. I also want to highlight, like, you sound brilliant. Like, the fact that you've already done all this, you're graduating at 19. I love that you have $100,000 in scholarships, but why stop there?

You know, yeah, with medical school, there are a lot of ways we can get that paid for. I've seen a lot of your guidance on MD, PhD programs and like some stuff with the Army. Both of those programs, the MD, PhD actually isn't offered at my school, right? And so that's something that's not on the table for me. And I'd really like to be able to stay in Kentucky with my family. And so that's not really something that I can do

with the Army route. So- Yeah, I would challenge that. Matthew, I'll challenge that though, with my family. And so that's not really something that I can do with the Army route. So... Yeah, I would challenge that. Matthew, I'll challenge that, though, because if you had a program that would pay for you to go to medical school in Indiana, would you not take that

just to be near your family? Perhaps, but it's not a decision that, like, at 19 years old, I'm not ready to sign the next seven years of my life after medical school away, you know? So after four years of medical school, they require seven years of service where they can move me here, there, or yonder. Well, we're even talking about the MD-PhD program. Sorry, yeah, not military. I was actually already been accepted to one program, and that was part of the conditional for acceptance was that I could only apply to their program.

And they had some of the best tuition rates out there. And plus, I've done some stuff that's very similar to a PhD, some research stuff like that. And it's really not up my alley there. So was it an early decision program where you signed like a binding agreement saying you wouldn't apply somewhere else? Or what did that look like? Yes, pretty much. That was it. And with that, you kind of made the commitment on the front end that you would go to that school no matter what the finances looked like? Yes, that's correct. Okay. So with the scholarship allocation, is that like a certain amount each year or is that like you have $100,000 to spend, you know, paying for each year as you go?

That would be a certain amount each year and it would only be applicable to the tuition part of it, I believe. So how much do you have left to make up for the first year? For the first year, probably about, with my savings, about $30,000. And it would probably take me about zero savings. About zero savings. Okay. So then if I'm in your shoes and I've made that commitment, then I am applying to scholarships like crazy. You did say your parents can help out some. If they can help out without taking a mortgage out, that's great. But at this point, with the fact that you've committed, you've got to just hustle and figure out how to find that money. If it's not a binding commitment, then I would encourage you to look at other programs because you are brilliant.

And you have the chance of getting a full ride somewhere else. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Today's question of the day comes from Ashley in Boston. I'm a 21-year-old full-time student and will graduate at the end of this year. I have about $18,000 in debt on a car and I have $20,000 in savings. I do not have any other kind of debt.

I also have a credit card that I use to get access to online textbooks and these sites only accept credit cards. I want to do the baby steps, but should I wait until I graduate to get rid of my car loan and credit card? That's a great question, Ashley. You know, right now, since you have one more year left of school, I would say hold tight and just keep saving money and make sure you get through college debt free. Because I don't think you have any student loans is what you claim. So you say I have no other debt. Student loans are debt for those of you that might be confused.

So hopefully, Ashley, you don't have that. So I would say to just to stay put, get through school, make sure that you graduate debt free. And then once you graduate and you kind of make that transition to where you're going to be then I would plug in your savings which will be more than $18,000 at that point hopefully and I'm sorry more than $20,000 and I would automatically pay off the car but I don't think I would drain my savings account down to $2,000 as a college student because your number one goal right now is to get through school debt-free. Yeah, and there's just unexpected expenses that can come up in college. I want to challenge the notion that I have to have a credit card to get online textbooks and that the sites only accept credit cards. I think that's kind of a common misperception. A lot of sites will say,

like, enter your credit card here, but they typically still accept debit cards, right? Like, they still accept that. So I don't want anybody to hear that and think, like, enter your credit card here. But they typically still accept debit cards, right? Like, they still accept that. So I don't want anybody to hear that and think, oh, I have to have a credit card. I'll be limited if I don't have one. I have not found that in my experience. And I own zero credit cards. Yeah. And it's usually, you know, with the processing and stuff, for the most part, I mean, obviously, if you hit debit, you got to put in a PIN number if you're there at the checkout. But I even run my debit card as a credit because I want it to run through Visa or MasterCard, whatever the, you know, whatever the emblem is on my debit card to make sure that I have full protection as if it's a credit card transaction, even though the money is coming right out of my

checking account because it's a debit card. So yeah, people get a little bit confused on that. But if it accepts a credit card, it will accept a debit card. Yes, there you go. Do you ever catch yourself at the store whenever the clerk is like, credit card? And I'm like, debit. Just so people know, I'm using my debit card. But I do love that you're in college and you're thinking about the baby steps. Just be intentional with that. Keep that savings. We're definitely not saying, go spend it and don't care about it. But like Rachel said, keep building it because hopefully when you graduate, you'll not only be able to pay off that car straight away, but you'll also be able to have your fully funded emergency fund. And when you get your first job, immediately start investing. That would be the goal. All right, let's go back to the phones. Next up, we have Andy calling from Dayton, Ohio. Hey, Andy, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me.

Thanks for calling. So my wife and I are about to have our second kid and we're looking forward to having... Congratulations. Oh, thank you. And it's her birthday today. Happy birthday, honey. Happy birthday, Andy's wife. We're looking forward to having a third kid shortly after. So the question is kind of centered around in about two years from now, we're looking to kind of move into our forever home. So my question is, I've got about 38,000 left in student loans, but I also have about 250,000 in my 401k. So the variable interest

rate just went up to like 8.8% or something crazy high on the student loans. But given the fact that I'll have a really good pension and my 401k is on pace to be around $2 million when I retire, is it completely frowned upon to maybe borrow $30k against the 401k to pay off the student loans? So then when we're looking to move into our house in a couple years, we'll be completely debt-free and that 401k will be paid back. Yes, it is frowned upon, Andy. Yeah, no, I would not borrow against my 401k. I would not. How much do you make a year?

$120. Okay, Andy, pay off your student loan. You guys could take 18 months and pay this off. 18 months, you could pay, 14, 12 months. You guys could take 18 months and pay this off. 18 months, you could pay, 14, 12 months. You guys could pay this off. Yeah, well, you know, we're growing our family and we've got other expenses. You know, we're just in a new house now.

And we're just trying to think about how to free up some liquid in a couple years from now when we move into our forever home. Okay, I don't want you to move into your forever home with debts. Do you have any savings besides retirement? We've got about $18,000 right now. Okay.

So here's what I would do, Andy. Since you called the Ramsey Show, we're going to give you the Ramsey advice. And I would throw $17,000 there at your student loan. And then you got $21,000 left on it. Pay it off this year, Andy. And then you guys save up, get a big emergency fund, then save up for a down payment, and then move into your dream home

where you're not broke. You don't have debt. You have cash in the bank. You're not borrowing from your 401k. And you have the ability then to really step into your home and be like, okay, yeah, we have this very, very solid financial foundation under us in order to do that. And so I think the problem, especially with student loans, and Christina, you can probably speak on this, is it's a bigger debt usually from people. And it's so normalized

that it kind of can become a little bit apathetic of like, oh, I don't know, it's just here. And this is what it is. And it's not this like intense, like get this thing out of my life. Yeah, well, I mean, culture's told us that it's normal. Culture tries to make it seem like it's what everybody takes out for college and that you're going to have it for the next 15 to 20 years. And that does not have to be true. We see it every day here at Ramsey, people tackling the student loan debt and not carrying it around like a puppy for the next 15 years.

You can get rid of these student loans. And Annie, I know you want to do it, but you're talking about your 401k and you're talking about the 250 and how it'll be two million in retirement. But the problem is when you start pulling from your 401k, it's kind of a slippery slope, right? Like it's easy to go, OK, we'll just pull from it. It's going to be fine and we'll pay off the student loans. And then, you know, you have another baby and things are there more expenses here.

And then all these things can start pulling popping up. And then you're not on track to $2 million in retirement. And it's just getting kind of messy. So we would definitely not recommend pulling from that. And if you leave your job, you have to pay it immediately back. I mean, like there's just, there's a lot of risk there involved. And so I would not, yeah, I would not touch your 401k, Andy. I would cashflow this because you guys have the money.

You're able to do it. You have a great income. You have savings. And so it's just, from the Ramsey baby steps, you're just, it feels like you're doing things a little. You have a great income. You have savings. And so it's just from the Ramsey baby steps, you're just it feels like you're doing things a little bit out of order. Right. And so I just want to get you back to that clear path because we have found with this plan. I mean, we can't argue it because literally millions of people have done it and they have done the steps. And it is the quickest way from point A to point B to not only get control of your money, but to build wealth long term. And so keeping this debt around is stopping you from that.

And so I would throw everything at the debt that you have now, except for $1,000. You guys aggressively pay it off. And then, well, you guys are expecting, Andy, you said that, right? I'm sorry. You guys are about to have a baby. Yes, next month. Okay, next month. Okay. I'm sorry. Let me backtrack just a second.. Yes, next month. Okay, next month. Okay, I'm sorry. Let me backtrack just a second. I would pause. Wait a month. Make sure baby and mom come home and everything. And then once they're back, everything is good. Everyone's healthy. Then that's when I would start paying off the student loan debt with your savings. You guys attack it and then save up an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses,

a down payment on the dream home. And I would keep going. And I promise what this also does, what this also does, Andy, is when you don't owe anyone anything, not only mathematically, financially does it get you ahead faster, but you sleep at night. The amount of anxiety that you just don't have when you have savings in the bank, you don't have any payments, you're not trying to borrow from this thing to that thing. It is clean. And there is something about our level of anxiety that we carry around as we're kind of going through the motions of money and the way that the world works. And I'm telling you, if you do something that is so weird, which is what I'm telling you to do, I know mathematically you're like, that doesn't really make sense. You're going to get a different result than what the world has. And it's peace,

financial peace. And that's what we want for you. So hang on the line, Andy. I'm gonna have Emily pick up because I want you and your wife to go through Financial Peace University while you got a newborn with you guys. And you're not sleeping at night. Turn us on and go through this class, though, because for real, getting the basics of this is really, really important. And follow it and just follow it because it works. Yeah, and it may not be easy. It may be a season of sacrifice,

but remember, it's just a season. You will get through it. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality Christina Ellis, joined today by my co-host and friend Rachel Cruz. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Next up, we have Jason calling from Boise, Idaho.

Hey, Jason, welcome to the show. Hey, Christina and Rachel, how are you guys doing? We're doing well. How can we help? Well, real quick, I just want to say I appreciate Ramsey. Ramsey used to be a four-letter word in our house, and now it's almost the term of endearment, if that makes any sense. I'm glad it changed. I'm glad it changed for you.

It has. My wife and I, we've been budgeting. We've been doing really good. And just in the last year, we have really gotten intense and started getting kicked off at debt. We paid off our car just a couple months ago and we're snowballing the next debt. But here's the dilemma and the question. My wife is a realtor and she just sold her first house just a few weeks ago. And with the economy and inflation and everything, her and I were talking

about, you know, where's that money going? And of course, I want to pay off the credit card. It would completely make it go away. And she wants to possibly beef up the emergency fund for just in case. And I just want your guys' thoughts on that. Okay. So share some numbers with us, Jason. How much will she be bringing home from her commission? And congrats to her on the first house. That's exciting. Close to $12,000. Nice. And how much is the credit card? Well, the next one is about $7,000.

Okay. And what other debt do you guys have? We have a couple more credit cards. I mean, in total, we got about... What are they separately? So you have a $7,000, a... A $9,000, and a $10,000. Okay. And any other debt, or it's just these credit cards? And my truck payment.

My truck needs to be... how much is it paid off eventually i owe seven thousand on that seven thousand okay um and she and and you you guys have this a thousand dollar emergency fund yes okay um let me say this jason i understand where she's coming from and just so you hear from a woman's perspective, one of the greatest, the number one financial fear among women is financial insecurity. It's like that feeling of it, exactly what she said. If something happens, are we going to be okay? And so how much do you bring in?

I know she's selling houses. What do you bring in a month? About $3,800 a month. Okay. So here's where I, if you were, if, yes, I'm putting myself in your wife's shoes because I understand, even though I teach this and we talk about baby step one, which we're going to get to that in a second, where her fear is coming from is very real and very true but also it can be magnified because of the what we're hearing from the news from facebook from family from friends about how the entire economy is going

to collapse and we're uh we're all screwed and oh my gosh what's going to happen you know that feeling and then you go to the grocery store and you're like crap i'm paying so much for eggs and like you know things are more expensive so all of of that comes into play. So what I would do is sit down with her and just say, hey, here's the plan that we're working. And if something were to happen, which this is what we teach, you pause the debt snowball and you beef back up the emergency fund for the thing that happens, right? If there's a roof that leaks or there's a medical, something happens, you pause the debt snowball, continue to pay my own payments, and then you fix the emergency of where it's at. So it's not like you guys are going to go under or something.

You're able to pause and be able to beef up that emergency fund if needed to pay for the emergency. So that always kind of gives me comfort knowing, okay, if something were to happen, we're not going to just continue to pay on this debt while the roof is falling in. Or so you don't mean whatever the scary thing is. So that's helpful. And then a little bit of that fear of like, oh, it's only $1,000. Let's get out of debt so much faster.

It's a little bit of that motivator to push through and pay it off that much faster. Yeah, that's part of it. It's supposed to be uncomfortable for this season. That's just part of it. You want to get rid of it. You're the gazelle running from the cheetah. It's scary.

And honestly, I'm in property management. And last summer, I bought a pressure washer to go out and pressure wash houses. I mean, I'm hustling, you know, 60, 70 hours a week in the summertime just so I can continue kicking debt's butt. So I can always work harder and still pay off debt without, you know, using that $11,000 and just putting it in a cushion. I don't want to do that. No, yeah. And I wouldn't because you guys are going to be able to knock, I mean, you're going to pay off your truck. I mean, like there's things that you guys can do with this money that again is efficient and getting you guys that much closer

to being debt free. So have you guys gone through Financial Peace University together? We did through our church. As a matter of fact, I even helped facilitate it the second year. But for the longest time, we were just learning budgeting and learning to operate our budget. And just in the last year, we finally started getting intense and getting mad. Have y'all kind of mapped out how long it's going to take to pay off this debt? What is your projected payoff date? We haven't, honestly, no, we haven't mapped it out like that. I would encourage you to do that because I think, I think for your wife, especially with the concerns and the fear around not having an emergency fund, that is real, but hopefully seeing a finish line that can really help you drive

harder and faster. It's like, we can say the why, but if it feels like, you know, this season may last forever, we don't know when it's going to end, I can feel really hard. But to see, you know, a definitive point where it's like this is going to be paid off in, you know, a year or 18 months. Yeah, and Jason, if she sells two more houses, you guys are debt free at the same,

you know what I'm saying? So like you're so, y'all are close. You're going to get there. You're going to get there. Yeah. Okay. Keep it up. You're doing a great job. Just stay the course. I know this is the time where it can get there. Yeah. Okay. Keep it up. You're doing a great job. Just stay the course.

I know this is the time where it can be intimidating. Yeah, and it can be scary. And I would encourage her, too, to you guys are budgeting together, which I'm thankful for, and to focus on what's going on in your household because, again, a lot of this fear that we're seeing out there, some of it is very real that's pertaining seeing out there. Some of it is very real. That's pertaining to your household, but sometimes it is just so magnified in our heads because it feels like everyone else is freaking out. So I should be the one freaking out too, right?

So you wanna calm that fear down with a lot of facts as well. And that's what Christina was saying. Even mapping out your debt snowball and seeing it visually is so helpful to be like, okay, okay, this isn't forever. We're not saying that have $1,000 in the bank for the rest of your life be like, okay, okay, if this isn't forever, we're not saying that have $1,000 in the bank for the rest of your life. No, no, no, no, you're gonna be bulking that up soon. But all of that intensity and all that focus to get this

debt out of your life changes the game. Yeah, and it's good. It sounds like you guys are pretty close to the same page. But there is that little bit of tension. And she wants it too. But Rachel, what would you say there's so many people I feel like that call who their spouse is like totally on a different page. Maybe their spouse is like, no, crypto is the next thing. Or like Ramsey's still a four letter word in their house. What would you say to that husband or wife who's trying to speak to the other and get them to kind of come over a bit? Yeah. Well, you know, money is usually never about money. I mean, like a lot of the stuff. And so there's issues underneath that, that I would want to get at. And so, you know, for some of you that have been listening and you're huge fans of the show and

you're so hardcore, sometimes you're the problem and you go to your spouse and you're like, oh my gosh, we have to do this. We have to do this. We have to do this. And then if your spouse is like, whoa, whoa, you're like, you're not on board. You know? I mean, sometimes it's like the legalistic person is the one that you're like, you need to chill and actually like have a relational bone in your body to relate to your spouse. So sometimes it's this feeling of like, you're trying to control me and the spouse feels controlled. So what's your approach? You know what, you know, how are you doing that? And then the opposite is true, right? There can be, we've heard this a lot, the spouse that's just like, no, I deserve to spend

what I want to spend. I don't want to be accountable to anyone. And that's a level of immaturity. And that immaturity is going to show in other parts of your marriage and your life, not just your money. And that's the problem we want to get at, right? So like there's usually underneath that, there's some underlying things, whether it's fear, immaturity, control issues, like whatever the thing is, getting underneath that layer to say, okay. Because what we teach is not, well, it is crazy in the world. It is not normal.

But also when you look at it, it's like, live on less than you make. If you don't have the money, don't buy it. It's really not that crazy, right? I mean, it really is just common sense. And so I think that's part of it too, is plugging your ears on all this get rich quick stuff, all this thing that feels easy, because common sense and actually doing the work and persevering is hard.

It is hard work, but you get the results. That's what's key. That's so good. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back soon. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey, we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way.

Just go to ramsesolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter. Again, that's ramsesolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.