The Ramsey Show - App - Comfort Is The Enemy Of Progress Attack Your Debt Now

Starting point is 00:00:15 Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by author Jade Warshaw. We are so excited that you're tuning in today. We're taking your calls at AAA 825-5-225. Annie is going to kick us off in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Annie?

Starting point is 00:00:43 Hey, how's it going? Great. How can we help? All right. Yes, sir. I've been, I have a dilemma. I had an ex-boyfriend years about five, six years ago, and we got motorcycles. I sold mine, but we co-signed for each other. That's true love. Yeah, right. But anyway, he hasn't made a payment. I don't care about my credit, but they keep calling,

Starting point is 00:01:10 and they're like, it's a binding contract. So my question is, what do I do? I haven't seen the bike in over four or five years. I don't know if he's alive or dead. And they came to my house and checked, you know, it ain't there. They went to come repo it and then wasn't there. Yes. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:01:31 Okay. Here's the bad news, Annie. It doesn't matter where that motorcycle is and it doesn't matter if he's dead or alive. You owe that debt. That is exactly what comes. signing is. It's you taking on that debt because they don't trust him to pay. And I think they were wise. How much is it? Okay. It's like about $10,000. Yikes. And what about your bike? Have you since paid yours off or what happened to one that you guys co-signed together that you drove?

Starting point is 00:01:58 Oh, I sold mine. So yours has been gone. Where are you at financially? Do you have any other debts? Do you have money and savings? No, I don't have any money in savings. I've been retired for a year and I'm trying to go back to work right now, so I'm barely making my bills, and I can't afford to make that. Where is your income coming from? Retirement. Like a 401K, Social Security? No, I work for TBC. So you have, like, a pension?

Starting point is 00:02:31 Yes, sir, evidently, yes. Okay. Yeah. So what is your monthly income as it stands without you going to work? Like 1,600. And what are your monthly bills that up to? More than 1,600? Yes.

Starting point is 00:02:48 Okay, so are you floating the gap with credit cards? No, actually, I'm married, so yeah, I got married, so that's how we do it together. Okay, what's he make every single month? Probably about 9-18, about 3,000. Okay, and I don't know, I'm guessing, based on. on the way you're talking, but are you guys combined money or are you separate? I take care of the bills and he just puts money in my account, so I take care of all the bills. And then he takes care of, like, his truck and stuff.

Starting point is 00:03:25 So you're separate for all intents and purposes. It doesn't sound like... Does he have savings? No. Okay. Well, the best way to do this would be combining your money together to go, Okay, how are we going to make a plan to pay this old debt off? Now, I don't know if he's willing to do that, and it sounds like he doesn't have the ability because he's broke too. And he's got a truck payment of his own? No, his truck is paid off, but we're trying to get him another truck.

Starting point is 00:03:58 So I'm trying to go back to work because his truck is actually broke down, and we're trying to fix it. So trying to pay for the repair? or are you about to go buy a brand new truck with payments? Because you don't have any money. Right, right. Well, that's why I need to go to work is so that way we'll have more money on top of that. But his truck is old and he's, well, he's trying to fix it.

Starting point is 00:04:22 So by now that's what our goal is to fix it. Well, I think work is a great place to go right now to make more money to get us out of all of this. And the motorcycle, this old motorcycle debt, that's just part of the bigger picture that we need to clean up. What other debts do you have? I have a couple of credit cards. My debt's probably about 10,000. Well, you got 10,000 just on the motorcycle. No, no, yeah, but I'm talking about, yes.

Starting point is 00:04:53 So you got 20,000. I guess about 20,000. So here's what I hear, and here's a couple of, I just want to bullet point this so that you have clear homework for tonight. First thing's first is tonight. It's Friday night here. I know some of you might not listen to this till Monday, but I want you to go out either on a date or tell your, tell your husband tonight is date night at the house. And over dinner, I want you to say, I've really been thinking and I don't feel peace about our finances. I feel stressed. I feel like we're disconnected. And I would really love for us to get aligned financially. I would love to be in a situation where what's yours is mine and mine is yours and that we really are. a unit on this. And I want you to open up the lines of communication on that. Tonight's not the

Starting point is 00:05:42 night to create a plan to pay off debt. Tonight is not the night to say it's time to sell a vehicle. Tonight is just the night to say, here's what I'm afraid of. Here's what I've been feeling. And here's, I would just like to have this intimacy with you where we're one on one with our, with our money, right? For you and your own time until the next meeting that you're going to have with your husband. I want you to start writing down debt. Here's all the debt. Here's all my money. And then the next meeting with him, I want you to go with him and say, I started writing things down. Here's what I started writing down, slide it over there and say, is there anything you want to add to this list? Because I'm just trying to get my head around this, right? And keep that conversation going.

Starting point is 00:06:23 That's thing one and thing two. And then you guys can start to get your head around this. We're going to give you every dollar before you get off the phone because the truth is George and I can only talk to you for so long. you're going to need something and someone to walk with you and every dollar is going to do that. It'll be like you have George in your pocket. And so that's the key to this. Every dollar is going to ask questions about you. You're going to answer it. And then it's going to tell you the next right step.

Starting point is 00:06:48 And in this case, George was right. Money coming in. So income coming in, you getting another job that's going to be so key. But then after you've done the budget, you're going to realize, are there some things that we can cut out? What percentage of our take home pay is our rent or our mortgage, right? You're going to see things that might need to. shift and all that needs to be done together with your spouse. And I personally, call us back. Like, call us back and tell us how it goes because there's several steps to this. I would never

Starting point is 00:07:14 want you to think it was a light switch that was supposed to happen in one conversation or in one phone call to our show. So keep walking down the road. Don't get discouraged. There's going to be several steps to this, but just take the next right step. So what's the answer? Even though I don't know where the bike is, haven't seen it in five years. You got to stack up the money. You have to, at this point, assume it as your debt. Forget he ever even existed because your name is on it. And legally, that's all they see. If they can't find him, your name is on it. And you will feel it. It will, if it doesn't get paid, your credit's going to get destroyed. It's going to keep you from doing the things you want to do. So add it to the list of debts. The best thing that you can do

Starting point is 00:07:53 in this situation mentally and emotionally is say, you know what, this is a mistake I made. This was the part I played. Forget all about him because he's somewhere eating a sandwich. He is not thinking about you. And he clearly doesn't care about, you know, clearly doesn't care about his finances. So you pay it. Don't spend another ounce of energy thinking about him because it's just wasted mental calories and emotional calories. And because the debt is, you know, six years old, they might be willing to settle. If you can scratch up $3,000 and call him, say, hey, listen, I don't know where this guy is. I don't know where the bike is. He's an ex. I'll give you three grand if you can call this debt paid in full and clear from your credit and move on with your life emotionally and financially.

Starting point is 00:08:32 We're rooting for you, Annie. Hang on the line. We're going to get you hooked up with every dollar. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. If you missed it, we had an awesome live stream that happened last night, depending on when you're hearing this. You can go check it out and watch the replay Ramsey Solutions.com slash live stream or just head to our YouTube channels.

Starting point is 00:09:05 Jade and Dave just held court on stage, and it was a wonderful time. So be sure to check that out if you're looking to kick 2026 off with a bang. Laura is in Salt Lake City. What's going on, Laura? Hi. I'm just trying to figure out where I go from here. My husband and I, my husband's a contractor and I'm a stay-at-home mom, and we've owned our own business for 12 years. And in the last three years, he's been partnering with his brother and just splitting profits 50-50. And I was okay with that until this recent year. We've got a job that's taking over a year.

Starting point is 00:09:42 And I do all the paperwork. So I do, I run the business side of it. And so I asked for this job if I could get like 5, 10% for me, because I felt like it's a lot more because I've got workers, competent employees, and subcontractors now with this year-long job. And he said, no, he doesn't feel comfortable doing that because this is where I got a little upset. He said, I'm a wife that helps out. And doing a little bit of paperwork doesn't mean I get a cut of the business.

Starting point is 00:10:13 like the full business as a whole are you just trying to make are you trying to get them to pull more salary like payroll for you? No I mean this job like we own business is a small business and we've been fine and I technically own 49% of business that's what it is on the paperwork

Starting point is 00:10:30 but I do like 10% of it because I just do the paperwork but I thought I was a business partner well you aren't arguing about splitting 50-50 with his brother for this big job, he said, no, we can't do that. You're just helping, you're my wife and you're helping me out. So I don't have to do the paperwork and I can spend more time with the family. Hmm.

Starting point is 00:10:55 And so, and I just, for the last 12 years, I thought I was a business partner. And so I just, I don't know. I think this is, I think this is more about, I think this is more about the disappointment of how he views you versus, like, money or like a business thing. At least that's what I'm hearing. You feel disrespected, belittled, like your work doesn't really matter. That's the hard way. It's not just that, though.

Starting point is 00:11:22 Like, I do, when it's a $20,000 job and it's a few receipts since my early work, it's not a big deal to split at 50-50. But, I mean, this profit's going to be about $200,000. So you want to cut the profits? I want a piece of profit because it's a lot more work for me to do a, a $200,000 or, well, are you paid? That's the question. Yeah, do you receive a salary? Have you ever received a salary? No, it's not a salary. It's our business. We're partners. So the question is, the question is on a job like that. I hear what you're saying. What you're saying is more emotional. I'm talking about on paper at this point. If they're 50-50, are your brother, the brother and your husband, is that 50-50 on paper? Or is it? you're a 50, a third, a third, a third.

Starting point is 00:12:14 And so they just have a deal that when they do jobs together, they split the profit 50-50. Okay. So my thing is this. So you're saying, in essence, the profit should be split in thirds. And I don't think thirds, because I'm not doing a third of the work. You just want 10%.

Starting point is 00:12:34 And most of the people work isn't that much. I ask for 5 to 10%. So then the other question is this. Let's just look at it as it is, just taking motion out of it for a minute. Okay. The brother, even though they're working on this and they're separate businesses, does the brother have somebody who does the paperwork for him on his side of the business

Starting point is 00:12:53 and has all that and then, you know, he takes that. Do you see what I'm saying? Both businesses are probably set up similarly. So the other side of this conversation would have been for you to say, husband, if we're doing more work on this, shouldn't we be taking more of the profit? Should this be a 60-40 split with your brother? Or do you see what I'm saying? But it said.

Starting point is 00:13:16 Because at the end of the day, you're just a wife helping out. Okay. But. Did he say those words exactly? You're just a wife? I'm trying to go after. I don't think he said. He said, you're my wife and you help me out.

Starting point is 00:13:28 Okay. I just want to if he was on the phone, I feel like he would be like, no, no, here's what I said. Because what I'm getting at is if the money is going into you guys as pot, it's both of your money. And that's a whole other conversation. you guys don't view it that way, but it's both of your money. And what I'm saying is, although what he said sounds disrespectful, I wasn't there, but it sounds disrespectful, there's two different conversations here.

Starting point is 00:13:48 There's what's fair financially for you guys' business, not you and him separately, but the business. And then there's the conversation of how we treat each other with respect within our marriage. Does that make sense? Yeah. So if the deal with the businesses is it's a 50-50 split, then that's that deal. Now, then there's a conversation of, well, honey, there's two of us on the payroll, it would benefit both of us possibly if you received a salary

Starting point is 00:14:14 and if I received a salary. Now, if you're trying to split hairs and the salary would remain the same and you guys would just have your names on it differently, I do think that's splitting hairs. Are you following what I'm saying? I think so. So it's like... So my husband and I own a business together, and this is true. if Sam is profiting, if he takes $200,000 as profit on the business, right? Let's say I'm staying home with the kids. That's our money. It's our profit.

Starting point is 00:14:46 Now, if I'm helping him out and I say, oh, the $200,000, it feels weird that zero of that is like written in my name. I'd like for you to write 50 of it in my name. So you make 150 and I make 50. That's me splitting hairs because the 200 is going into our account anyway. Now, if I said, Sam, I've been thinking, you know, you're working and I'm working. if there's room, I probably should take a salary too. It's good for all of us.

Starting point is 00:15:09 It's good for the business if we're making more and we can profit more into our pocket. So for the work I'm doing, maybe you can pay me, you know, $30,000 a year on top of your $200,000. That's a conversation to have based on the work. Yeah. And it doesn't have anything to do with the other vendors. Yeah. It was, he asked, he's like, well, what if we do hourly? But the problem is, it's a random phone call here and there.

Starting point is 00:15:35 Or it's, hey, can you pick up these supplies? Can you go grab the trailer? Can you go grab the cement? So it's just random thing. It's not a clock in, clock out thing I do. I just, I'm always on call doing it. So it just sounds like there needs to be a set amount. It sounds like there needs to be, you guys need to figure out what that split is.

Starting point is 00:16:01 And it sounds like it needs to be some sort of a set amount, some sort of a commission that you get for the work that you do that's set. And then there's a list of responsibilities that go along with the money that you earn in a month. So that could be anything from this, this, this, that instead of a percentage. Because I ask for a percentage and that's very huge. I think percentage is confusing because, again, they're viewing it as entity versus entity. Your guys' business with the brother's business. You're not an entity.

Starting point is 00:16:29 You're part of your business entity. So I think that's what caused the confusion. but if you're just like, hey, put me on the payroll, let's figure out what that means. That's one conversation. I think that's great if you can afford it. I think the other part we never ironed out is your life shifted, right? Yeah. When you stayed home, it wasn't the same as it was before.

Starting point is 00:16:50 Yeah. But we never had a conversation about what this looks like now. And he views you as, well, she works on the business, but she's not pulling the weight that me and my brother are, right? Yeah. And that's where he said it. He said that as well. And we just never acknowledge that.

Starting point is 00:17:06 When you stayed at home because you guys, you know, are married and lived together, it's easy to let those things slide. And I think we should have had a conversation going, hey, I know that this has been our business. It's going to shift now. My brother's going to be stepping in to shoulder some of the weight of this. And you will be more of an employee in the business. And here's how that's going to be laid out financially. I think it's just we need a reset.

Starting point is 00:17:27 And that's the conversation we never had. Exactly. And so maybe that turns into he pays you a salary or a partner. time hourly wage and you keep track of how much time you've spent on the business and that's what you're paid. I don't know what that looks like for you guys. I also need to find out the other truth of that is if you weren't there to do the job, would he absorb those responsibilities or would he have to hire out? And that's a really good way to determine. And what would he have to pay for that person? Yeah. Because if you don't want to do it anymore because you're fed up with it, then just say,

Starting point is 00:17:58 I'm not doing it. Doesn't change how much you get paid. I thought about. I thought about that, but it just, it would hurt the business more. Exactly. It's sticking it to the man. You're, you're sort of, you know, you're hurting yourself in that regard. Yeah. Because if it's truly y'all's money and it goes into the same bank account and you're married filing jointly, then you're really just hurting yourself to make a point. And I would rather you avoid that. I can't do that because then it would just. Yeah. Yeah. Then a hard conversation is your next step, Laura. I wish you the best. Michelle is in Vegas up next. What's going on, Michelle? Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Starting point is 00:18:46 I have a question with regards to Cobra. So we've currently been on Cobra for about a year. We're going to be transitioning off in the next three to six months. I should have done this sooner, but I didn't. I'm looking at these alternative health sharing plans and just kind of curious what your thought is on those. When I compare what I'm paying for Cobra versus what a med share or health sharing plan would be. What are you paying for Cobra right now? It's a different. It's going from 1,600 to 1,700, and that's a family of four.

Starting point is 00:19:17 Okay. And what's... My son went away to college, and I've got to pay for separate insurance for him, because my plan doesn't cover him in Colorado. Okay. And neither of you have insurance provided through your employer? Correct. Okay. And that's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future? I think so. What do you guys make a month?

Starting point is 00:19:40 A month? Eight. Okay. So this is a big chunk of your world paying for this health insurance. Right. Well, there's a few options. One is the health sharing types, and we have a great partnership with Christian Healthcare Ministries. That's one option you can look at that could make sense for you guys, depending on your situation.

Starting point is 00:20:02 Another is just shopping the marketplace, and we have another partner health trust financial. That's fantastic for that. That can help you save. And so you might find out, hey, it's actually. actually not much more or it's less than we're paying right now depending on your situation. Right. What would keep you from just shopping the marketplace? Because the truth is, if you pick one of those plans, it's going to be regulated. If for some reason a claim is denied, you can fight it and there's somebody in your corner and there's regulations around it versus

Starting point is 00:20:29 some of the others that don't have those protections. Like, I'm trying to understand what your values are around this. Is it the faith-based thing? Is it the money? a little bit of everything. I'm looking at it where I've been paying, you know, $20,000 a year for insurance plus another $3,000 when my son went away to school. And I know with some of these health sharing plans, it's going to be, you know, $500 a month plus a $12,000 deductible. But I'm looking at it where I'm like, why am I spending $20,000 a year on insurance that's okay, you know, it's not great. It's okay. You still got co-pays and things like that. One of my son's, just had a diagnosis where they don't cover the pills that they want him to take. And that's going to be out of, you know, if I don't go through the drug company, that's going to be out of pocket, $6,000. So I'm just, I think I'm frustrated and I'm just thinking, what are the alternative? Yeah, I do think, so if you're considering this, one of the things that I would say could be a con to a health share is if you do have a chronic illness.

Starting point is 00:21:39 pre-existing condition. Yeah, pre-existing condition. Health shares are good for you're healthy, you rarely go. You know, you agree with whatever status it is that is faith-based of the community or whatever it is. And yeah, to get the lower payment, that's helpful. But in your case, I'm wondering because there is a pre-existing condition, there is some imminent health care needs. So I might shop health trust financial and just see what they can find you in the marketplace. and then if you're, hey, I need another option, I would look into Christian Healthcare Ministries as an alternative. Yeah, because in your case, in your case, if I put a claim through, I want to know that it's going to be covered. And I want to know that I can hold them to a standard in order to, as close

Starting point is 00:22:23 of a standard as we can. We all know that insurance is not the funest to navigate, but I want to know that it's got some standards around it. And I already know they're not going to pay for this drug. but my health insurance is not going to pay for this drug. So I can go through Pfizer and they'll give me a two-year kind of cover. You're talking about as it is on your COBRA coverage? Well, but that could change if you shop the market and find the right plan for you. And is there, do you think it would be best if you guys found an employer, like one of you has a health insurance plan? Would that be more beneficial?

Starting point is 00:23:00 Possibly. possibly. I mean, we don't really have any other bills. Like, that's, our house is paid for, we have investments and all that. So that's, so you're in a good place financially, but you're just sick of paying this astronomical rate. Yeah. Yeah. It's disgusting. It's, it's, it's, that's actually a trend right now. If you follow social media, it really is a big trend that people are tired of paying premiums and a lot of people are going to wild business like not having insurance coverage at all. And the truth is, George, you know this, bankruptcy, one of the, one of the biggest causes of bankruptcy is medical debt. And so it's not something that you want to,

Starting point is 00:23:36 you know, play around with. It's something you really want to do your research on. And the truth is, no one likes paying a bill. No one likes paying a premium. It feels it feels thankless. It feels like money going down a black hole. But when it, when it comes time that you need that coverage, you're like, oh, thank God, I have it. It's a safety net. It's a transfer of risk. That's all insurance is, and right now it stinks to pay 20 grand a year, but it would stink a whole lot more to have a $500,000 bill. And so keep coverage. So I would not go without coverage for a single day, but I would start researching like

Starting point is 00:24:10 my life depended on it through those options that I just gave you. Those are places I would start personally, health trust financial.com to reach out to them. And I hope they can find you a great option that is cheaper than what you're paying now. Okay. I appreciate it. Best of luck, Michelle. the health care system is broken. I think that is a bipartisan, nonpartisan take. It just sucks. We all know it. Yeah, it does. Oh, man. Let's go out to Danny in Wichita. What's going on, Danny? Danny, you with us?

Starting point is 00:24:42 Yeah, hello. Hey, what's going on? How are you doing? Great. How can we help? Well, Colin, I'm 50 years old. Recently had a heart attack. Ooh. I'm about $60,000 in debt. I've got about $18,000 a soul in an old 401k plant from an employer. I don't have any savings at the moment. Just make decent money. How much do you make? I know that I make about $6,000 a month, a minimum.

Starting point is 00:25:24 That kind of that fluctuates to about, you know, about. $6, $7,500. I drive a truck. Is it just to you? Well, I have a 17-year-old son at home. Okay. So it's just him and I. About $11,000 of that debt is because I, yeah, I was in fair mode after this happened,

Starting point is 00:25:45 and I knew I needed a cart start cutting expenses because I was going to have medical bills coming in. I do have insurance, but still, so I got out of my apartment lease and found a cheaper place to live. I was paying $1,300. I went down to $850 a month for rent. Okay. That also allowed me to get rid of a storage facility. I was paying $140 a month on. Okay.

Starting point is 00:26:12 What's your question today? Just so we'll make sure we can help you. Yeah. My question is, I know the baby steps, I know, you know, the debt snowball, the saving a thousand, but during the heart attack, they found that I have aortic, and your room and a bicussive heart valve, which is going to require surgery at some point. know. It could be three months, could be three years. They just, they don't know. It's imminent, though. My question is, knowing that, should I start stacking money and get to a certain point

Starting point is 00:26:45 and then get onto the dead snowballing because obviously that's going to be some recovery time with that and not knowing exactly when that point from surgery is going to come. Yeah. Danny, you're in storm mode right now. You've had a catastrophic event. with this heart attack and you've got some things coming up on the burner. And if I were in your shoes, I'd do two things. I would call up my insurance and I would let, I would have a conversation about the things that are getting ready to happen. What will be covered?

Starting point is 00:27:13 I would want to know very clearly what's my out of pocket max for the year. What's my deductible? And that's, that is the amount of money that I would aim to save up because you know this, like you know the rain is going to fall. What's that number? my out-of-pocket individually is $9,200. The deductible is $3,000, and that's individual.

Starting point is 00:27:35 Total is twice that. So $18,400,000, finally, and then $6,000 for you, I'd save up $10,000, and then the next number you need to know is you need to find out what's the recovery time. So how much time am I going to miss from work? What's that equal up to? And that's your emergency fund that you want to save up. So calculate if it's going to be a three-month recovery, calculate what that's going to be and save up that cash. And that's the best thing you can do. Knowledge is going to be power in this situation, my friend.

Starting point is 00:28:06 And once you've got all that taken care of, you can push play on the steps. And man, we're hoping that the surgery goes well and that you recover swiftly, my friend. Thanks for the call. If you're wondering where all your money went in 2025, that's normal. And guess what? Normal is broke. And this year can be different. So get a head start by downloading every dollar.

Starting point is 00:28:37 Every dollar builds you a personalized plan and coaches you to find extra money and then put it to work to beat debt and build wealth. You can answer a few questions. In a few minutes, you'll find thousands on average in just the first 15 minutes. Every dollar still has the same great budgeting features to help tell your money where to go. We've just given it a serious upgrade. So don't go another year feeling broken stressed. Go start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play. Or go watch the live stream.

Starting point is 00:29:03 We did last night. It'll show you exactly how to do it. Yeah, some great demos in there and kind of the principles behind it all. Yeah. Love it. All right. Jerry is in West Palm Beach up next. What's going on, Jerry?

Starting point is 00:29:16 Hey, how you guys doing? Good. What's going on with you? Doing good. I was just calling because my question is that my wife and I, we potentially can be out of debt by the end of this year. But she currently wants to move to a new apartment because of an ongoing roach issue. Oh. And the money that we would use to pay off debt would be used to purchase a new apartment.

Starting point is 00:29:36 I was calling to see if we should use that money to buy the apartment or to... Do you own the apartment you're in? No, we're currently renting. But that would break the lease? Well, the lease isn't in until November 31st. So we would use all the money that we would use to pay the debt out this year. It would have to be saved the entire year in order to pay for first, last, and security towards the end of the year.

Starting point is 00:30:00 On a new apartment. So you're not buying an apartment. Just you're renting a different one. Yeah, yeah, we're just renting. We're on baby step two. What is that number for first, last, and security? Well, we're not sure yet. Here in Florida, we estimate that for 2-1, it'd probably be around 2,100, $2,200 a month.

Starting point is 00:30:18 And so that's the first thing is finding out exactly what the numbers are to find out how it's going to affect your debt-free journey and getting real numbers around that versus guesstimates. I'm going to say something here that I can't do road. Roaches. Yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing to be like, I don't want to live with a roach infestation. Negative. My big question is, why is the apartment not doing anything about it? Well, we have a pest control company that we use, but the efforts that they've been putting in there haven't been working that well.

Starting point is 00:30:51 No, we need like Ghostbusters in there. If it's an infestation in the entire apartment complex, somebody coming to your thing spraying the little tweaker. I want exterminator, Terminator, Ghostbusters, a Catholic priest waving something. I mean, I want everybody up in there. The bomb, where they cover the whole building with fabric. Exorcists. Just get what you have to get up in there to get the roaches out. And if they don't handle it, I think you have the right to fight them to get out of this lease

Starting point is 00:31:12 without paying any fees. Well, the lease actually said that we're in charge of pest control. So you pay for pest control? Yeah, we pay for pest control. And that's the problem. Do you see what I'm saying? If you're just your pest control, what you pay for is just going for your unit. But if the whole building has an infestation problem, you can spray till the cows come home

Starting point is 00:31:33 in all your corners, but they're going to keep. coming down from the guy upstairs who, you know, where it all started. So that, that, yeah, I'd be up and out of there. I'd sit with your wife and figure out what's it going to cost. Sometimes, you know, the baby steps, George, you know this. Sometimes it feels like two steps forward, a little step back, two steps forward, a little step back. And it's just like that. But in this case, roaches. Yeah. And it just can't happen. And the five grand, you're sort of just like pre-paying, you know, the first month, last month, the deposit, hopefully you get back. And so there's a little bit of the sunk cost up front, but I think it's well worth it. And I would just try to make up for lost

Starting point is 00:32:10 time. Once you guys are in that new apartment, let's work twice as hard to get out of debt by the end of the year, regardless. Oh, I agree. That's good advice. I appreciate it. I'd be getting. I would also, here's how much of a nerd I am. I would be uploading the lease agreement to chat GPT to then act like my lawyer to tell me how to get out of this thing and see what they are responsible for. And so maybe that'll help, Jerry. I don't know. But man, that's not a fun problem. deal with, and I'm with your wife on this one. I've threatened to move before. Is that work?

Starting point is 00:32:41 I think Sam knows because I've threatened to move over many things. But when we live in South Florida, we have what's called palmetto bugs, which is really just called a giant roach that can fly. Oh, I hate those. These people in the audience are like, girl, I know a palmetto bug can be like the size of the palm, like, they're big. And they, you can't get around it. Like, you could spray all day, but they like water.

Starting point is 00:33:06 So if you're by the glades or if you're by, if you have pipes in your house, they can come in your house. So basically everywhere we've ever lived, I've threatened to move. All right, you just convinced me to never move to Florida. Thank you, Jade. It's a reason not to. All right. Declan is in Pittsburgh. What's going on, Declan?

Starting point is 00:33:23 Hey, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's going on? I'm trying to decide if it makes the most sense to move out to California. to live with my wife's grandmother and her special needs uncle, help take care of them and save some money in the process to knock out some more debt. Wow.

Starting point is 00:33:44 Is your wife going with you? Oh, yeah. Okay. I was like, this is a solo adventure for Declan? Okay, so you're considering moving from Pittsburgh all the way across the country to California to save some money. How can you save money moving to California? Help me understand that part.

Starting point is 00:34:02 Yeah, exactly. kind of a Goldilocks situation. So my wife's grandmother has a really nice house that we'd be able to have our own section of the house. It's a large house. How large? Like five bedrooms, three-fold bath. So we'd have two bedrooms and a whole living room to ourselves with the kids.

Starting point is 00:34:24 Oh, you got kids. How many kids? Two and three-month-old. A two-year-old and three-month-old. What about the jobs? Help me understand the job situation. So I work full-time. I'm fully remote. I make 80K a year. And my wife is currently staying home. 80,000. And then you're going to have additional jobs on top of this to take care of. Yes. So

Starting point is 00:34:48 my wife would be able to be the full-time caretaker for my uncle, or for her uncle, who's special needs. And he just, he's just great. He just needs help, you know, with making food and like little things like that. So it's the easy for her to stay at home and take care of him as well. So it's kind of a perfect situation there. Does grandma or the uncle have any income to speak of? Yes. Okay. I know grandma has, grandma's doing great.

Starting point is 00:35:20 And she has rental income that from other properties that, yeah, she's doing just fine. What about uncle? I know. He's fully disabled, so he doesn't work. Does grandma pay for uncle's needs? Yes, fully. Okay. But she doesn't want to have someone else.

Starting point is 00:35:36 Instead of a caretaker that they'd hire, they were just like, yeah, let's have family do it, and they can live for free. And that's the trade-off? Exactly, yeah. I don't know about this. Yeah, good. Was this something that, was the request made, or was this something that you guys had a hankering to do? Like, you know what? No, the request, the request was made.

Starting point is 00:35:59 everyone, we would love to go spend more time with their family in California, but they are looking for someone because their current caretaker is breathing. And Uncle Danny is, he's kind of someone who need someone who he knows and is comfortable with. And so they're asked if anyone in a family, no one else wanted to do it except we said we would. Okay. So you want, you want to do this. Yeah, yeah. I think it would be, I think it would be great to have some extra income spend spend a while in California with some family and help me understand the extra income so so help me so right now you're making the $80,000 a month what's your what do you pay on rent in housing right now we have mortgage we around us it's $1,200 a month so $1,200 a month for is that just the mortgage

Starting point is 00:36:46 tell me living expenses lighting all that stuff utilities um we're looking at basically at the month we're breaking even. We're paying our minimum fund debt, but we're not getting ahead. How much debt do you have? We have 45,000 in student loans. That's it? Yeah, that's it. And you're breaking even? Yeah. Yeah, so something needs to change. I don't know if the move is the next step. I personally wouldn't do it to try to save money. If you just want to do it for the adventure of it and you think you can make it work, go for it. I don't think you're going to pay off debt much faster because of California's taxes. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:27 Have you factored that in? It's actually funny. I did a lot of research into the taxes. At my bracket, we would be saving because we have a huge local income tax here, 2% local income tax. We would not be paying. Would you sell your house?

Starting point is 00:37:42 If we sold her house, yeah. You would sell your house. And what would you make on that? Probably about 20,000 inequity. 20 grand in equity. Well, then you got fees. You got moving costs. With a two-year-old and a three-month-old.

Starting point is 00:37:55 I got kids your age, I wouldn't do any of this. I wouldn't do this either. I just wouldn't. I would pass for now and I would try to make more money and cut expenses, but this feels like a Hail Mary. I wish you the best with the decision, Declan. It's a big one. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio.

Starting point is 00:38:21 I'm George Campbell, joined by bestselling author, Jade Warshaw. Her latest book, What No One Tells You About Money, Launched this week, and it feels like birthday month. We're just celebrating all week, all the time. month long. It's a great book. So pick up a copy if you haven't already. Ramsey Solutions.com. Brian is in Bismarck, North Dakota. What's going on, Brian? Good afternoon. How are you guys? Great. How can we help? Hey, so my wife and I were just wondering if we are crazy for wanting to pay off our house before we have kids.

Starting point is 00:38:53 Is it crazy? I mean, I wouldn't call you crazy. Wouldn't put you in the loony bin for it, but I also wouldn't recommend it. Yeah, what's the timeline on this? And how old are you? So my wife and I are both 22 years old, and we're hoping to pay off our mortgage in about 20 to 24 months. Yeah. I mean, if it lines up with your timeline, who cares? That's totally personal. And can I tell you the honest truth?

Starting point is 00:39:18 It could take you 24 months to get pregnant. So I wouldn't just wait to start trying until then. Unless that was part of your plan all along and you're like, hey, we want to be married for a while before we have kids. I mean, what, it's a values conversation. So is this a sacrifice in you guys' eyes, or are you just concerned with how other people are viewing it? It is sort of a sacrifice. We're holding off on like going on trips and upgrading on cars in order to do this. But part of it is also we want to make sure that my wife can be a stay-at-home mom without me having to worry.

Starting point is 00:39:56 And on top of that, I would like to switch jobs to something a little bit, more controllable with the schedule. And that would cause me to take a step back and pay. Yeah. I mean, like I said, it's totally values. My husband and I, when we were first married, we figured out that we had a bunch of debt. And the timeline on ours was,

Starting point is 00:40:18 we knew it was a long horizon for us. It ended up taking seven and a half years to pay it off. The whole timeline in total was closer to nine years, to be honest. And our choice was to wait. I would never put that on anybody else because, ours was very extreme. Yours is not, but at the same time, you want what you want. So if you say

Starting point is 00:40:36 this is the type of stability we want, this is what we want our life to look like when kids come on the scene, that's totally your choice. Nobody else has to understand that, but just know from a principal standard on our side, that is not part of the deal. You don't have to say

Starting point is 00:40:53 we're going to postpone our family until XYZ is true with money. Okay. There's no baby step for having kids. And I'll tell you, Brian, I lived your story. It just wasn't that intentional of like, we're not going to even try to have kids before we pay off the house. But my wife and I, we paid off our house in 26 months. And then when we did have a kid,

Starting point is 00:41:13 she was able to stay home with less stress. So I think those steps will happen. I just don't think you need to use the house payoff as the excuse. But if you want to wait two years to have kids, do that, and be paying off the mortgage early. But I don't think it needs to be this like, we're not going to even try until the house is paid off. see what I'm saying right yeah I get that but I think you guys are going to get there regardless

Starting point is 00:41:36 and we need more parents like you more fiscally responsible parents in the world so I wish you the best with the house payoff and with with having kids all right thank you glad we could settle the debate not crazy not crazy listen I wouldn't change that for the world on my end but if we were like hey don't have kids until your baby step 7 no we can't say that. We can't say any of it to anybody. Population would decline. We can't have that. Population decline. Mike is in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Mike? What's your question? Great. Thanks for taking my call. My question is about accidental life insurance, accidental death, life insurance. I got a quote from, you know, somebody just kind of sent in the

Starting point is 00:42:23 mail. The reason I'm questioning whether I need it or not is the premium is just so low that it almost seems like why wouldn't I take it? I'm 60. My wife 61. We make about 150,000 a year, have no debt. Net worth is about 1.8 house is paid for. It's about 400,000. The rest of mutual funds for 1K IRAs, things like that and plus some savings. Do you have term life? I do. I'm sorry. Yeah. And I also have term life policy for both my wife a smaller amount because you never worked, about 100,000, and I have about 500,000 on myself. So, again, I'm wondering, do I need, again, it's just such a, what were you, what were the numbers on it? What were you trying to, what's the amount of money, money you're trying to obtain upon accidentally dying?

Starting point is 00:43:17 Yeah, that's kind of how we all hope to go, not intentionally. Exactly. That's assuming the, if you die in an airplane, it's $400,000, but the premium is only 20 bucks a, month. So what would happen if you upped, if you upped your policy from, I'm sorry, from 500 to 700, I'm sure it would be comparable, if not less? It's, no, it's not, because I have looked at that. So again, in order to change my life insurance policies, upping it actually puts it into a different, you know, I'm kind of 10 years. Because of your age. Yeah. And so the term policy, even changing a little bit, makes it not affordable. Well, the truth is accidental death insurance is a gimmick insurance, and we never recommend that.

Starting point is 00:44:07 And I don't do it because it's a good deal and it's a low amount. The truth is you don't need it. If something happened to you, she's going to have $500,000. If something happens to her, you've got $100,000 plus all of your retirement money. So you guys are at the point where you could consider yourself self-insured, right? Yeah, that's why it's kind of in that balance right now. You know, I feel like I could be, you know, but I don't feel like enough to where I drop the life insurance. I would never tell you to drop it.

Starting point is 00:44:34 But how long do you have left on the term policies? 10. Okay. Oh, in 10 years from now, your wealth has doubled if not tripled, right? Possibly, yeah. I mean, just based on stock market returns and your income. Yeah. And if something happened to you, would your wife be able to live on the nest eggs that you have?

Starting point is 00:44:54 You've got the paid for a house. you'd have, you know, over, you know, three million sitting in your 401ks. Do you think she'd be able to live off that? She would. 300,000 a year? Yeah, she would. And that's where the angst was coming in. It's like just a small dollar amount.

Starting point is 00:45:12 It's almost just a gamble. It's like gambling. You throw another quarter in there and see if it hits or not is why I was questioning it. But you almost, I guess you had me when you said it's a gimmick. It is a gimmick. I mean, think about like this. You could, you could, like, let's go down this hole. You could play it like that.

Starting point is 00:45:28 I would never recommend it, but it's kind of like what we say with things like crypto and single stocks. When your stuff is done right, you've done the baby steps, you've got extra. Those things are considered gambling. It's like play money at that point. But in this case, it just is, I mean, it's all, none of it's necessary. It's just redundant. Yeah, you don't need it. Because then it's like, well, what if you get the accidental death and you don't get in a car accident?

Starting point is 00:45:53 and a hurricane doesn't land right on your face. Like what? You don't get the money at that point. So it's at that point, if I'm going to throw away that kind of money and I really am like, give me the $400,000. The better gamble would be to pay

Starting point is 00:46:05 a little bit more on the term life and to do it like that. But really, once that policy is done, you're going to let it lapse anyway or you're going to let it go anyway because you don't need it. So it's really, at this point, we're really just looking at it logically.

Starting point is 00:46:18 And logically, it doesn't make sense. I would skip it and put that 20 bucks in a fun money line item. and have some fun instead of freaking out. But man, how if your wife would be so mad if you died of natural causes after paying for this accidental life insurance for so long, gosh, just passed peacefully in his sleep. You're paying roulette.

Starting point is 00:46:36 Dang it, Mike. $100,000 was on the line. I hope you live a long life, Mike. I want to put that out there. Mary is in New York City up next. What's going on, Mary? Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

Starting point is 00:47:00 How are you? Sure, we're doing great. Good. I just have a question about how you would handle a situation when you disagree with your spouse about going into debt. Tell us the, tell us the tea. What's going on? So it's regarding our vehicles. We both drive paid off vehicles. I drive a 22 Ford Expedition, which we bought, used. Went into a little bit of debt, but paid it off very quickly. My husband drives a 2019 Toyota Forerunner and has wanted a truck for a long time and is kind of done waiting.

Starting point is 00:47:42 We've prioritized other financial goals for a long time, and now he just thinks he wants to go into debt to get it. Why would you have to go into debt? What about, well, let me ask a couple questions. You guys still have debt or everything's gone now? Everything's gone. We have a fully funded emergency fund. we have three kids, two of which have 529. So we're saving for their college. We fully fund our Roth IRAs every month. Good. And so you're financially, you're financially responsible adults, is that is what I would say. What is on fire that he needs to sacrifice all that you've built? I mean, why can you guys not save up and pay cash for this truck? Yeah, I think we can. I think it would take

Starting point is 00:48:31 some time to save up the difference between the trade and value and then we've got some other money set aside. How long would it take? I would say probably a year, maybe less than that, if we were working extra hard. Well, forget the trade in. What if you sold at Private Party and got five grand more for the forerunner and then use that towards the truck on top of your savings? So I would actually do some math and go, okay, what truck are we getting?

Starting point is 00:48:56 Are we getting, is it a used truck? It is, and it's about 55. Okay. And what could he sell his for under four private party? I would say probably about 30. Okay. So we have a $25,000 gap. How much could you guys put aside right now towards that savings goal every month? Every month, probably between $1,500 and $1,500. Okay. So this is going to take longer than a year based on that math. Well, we've got another, we've got about $15,000. We've set it aside for our kid, for our oldest daughter's

Starting point is 00:49:32 vehicle, but that's about five or six years down the road. So we could use that. That's outside of our emergency fund. So we were thinking we could also use some of that cash to fund. And then you'd restart the car fund for her. Correct. Okay. That's reasonable.

Starting point is 00:49:48 And then she'd also be working too. That, hey, if we put this much away every month, January or December of 2026, you can get the car. I want to get to the bottom of him, though. because when you tell me this, Mary, I'm thinking everybody wants a brand new car tomorrow, right? Like, I'm looking out in the audience. Do you want a car tomorrow? Do you want, we all want a brand new car tomorrow. So, like, there's this adult part of us that says, that's not the way the world works.

Starting point is 00:50:21 And I personally consider it pretty abnormal, not in the Ramseyverse, but out in the world, pretty abnormal to say, and not only do I want a new car, a new to me car, but I could save to get it in a year. That's pretty spectacular. And I think that he needs to be brought back into, like brought back down to earth to say, most people would love a brand new car and could not afford to save up because they've got other debt, other things to worry about. They could not save up for it for a year. So it's almost like he's lost perspective on what you've accomplished and what it allows you

Starting point is 00:50:55 to do that is so much different than the average American. Does that make sense? Yeah. I agree 100%. I think that's why I'm calling because this is just sort of a fork in the road. And I'm kind of to the point where I'm like, okay, do we just do this? So he kind of backs off a little bit. Because here's the thing.

Starting point is 00:51:15 Okay, his brain is ahead of his bank account. It's that simple. Yeah. And so you need to say, we worked our butts off to get out of debt. It is a value of both of us that we are not a family who goes into debt. We're done. That's an old us that is gone. on that toddler raging inside of us, that instant gratification, that's the past.

Starting point is 00:51:35 We're not doing that in the future. We're adults. We've been thinking about a long time. Let's save for a long time. And so if he wants it faster, work harder, dude. Go make more money. Cut more expenses. That's the conversation to have tonight.

Starting point is 00:51:49 I don't know if we can convince him. You don't get between a man and a truck. I would stand firm. Okay, this is, we're getting into marriage stuff here. So, George, there's very few. things that with Sam, I put, I like put my stake in and I'm like, you know what? And I'll tell them ahead of time, this is something I don't think I'm going to budge on. Like, we're going to have this conversation a lot of times. Like, hey, I'll make it known. I'll make it known. Because you'll be

Starting point is 00:52:14 sleeping over there. Yes. Especially like if I know that I, if I know I'm right. And I'm talking, I always think I'm right. But when I really think I'm right, I, there are certain things that you have to say, you know what? And I think this would be one of those, Mary, that I would say, this is something that is very important to me. And I don't see myself rolling over on this anytime soon. And here's why. And I'd be, I'd be getting firm. I'd be getting in my stance.

Starting point is 00:52:40 Just saying. Yeah, and I feel like I've done that. He thinks I'm a hypocrite because we went into debt to buy my vehicle. Against his will? Like three years ago. But was it against his will? No, no. It was not.

Starting point is 00:52:54 It was back when you were both stupid, right? and now you're both smart like you got to remind him of this be like that was old us we've transformed since then we were both doing stupid stuff back then but then we got smart why would we go back yeah i get to do it once too you know it truly is just the toddler inside of us and it's going i want big twuck and you're like well you can have big twuck one year from now i want big twuck now and it's like okay we can all throw our tantrum but at some point he has to realize that he has a family he has a wife it's not just him making stupid decisions it affects other people in his life namely you right now yeah i agree so he's going to have that truck and it's going to be so much

Starting point is 00:53:37 sweeter when he walks in there and writes a check and walks away and he actually owns that truck instead of being underwater on it or worrying about a payment after you guys work so hard to get out of debt now you're back in baby step two stressed out with three kids you guys have a lot of expenses coming up. Uh-huh. Between college and cars. He's got fatigue. Sports.

Starting point is 00:53:56 He's got, he's got the fatigue. Is this a midlife crisis, Mary? Is he just done? He's like, how old is he? A little 37. You know, I talk about this in the book. I'm going to go to this real quick because, and I'm probably going to, let's go ahead and send them a copy.

Starting point is 00:54:09 I don't know if he'll read it. Maybe he'll do the audio version. But I talk about this. It's this fatigue that sets in and it makes you mad. It makes you angry. It's in the anger chapter. When you're making a good income, you've done so many things right, but you're still not at whatever you think the finish line should be.

Starting point is 00:54:27 And there's just certain things that you think, I deserve that. I work hard. I did this. And you look at the list of accomplishments and you go, I deserve to have XYZ. And in his mind, it's I deserve to have this truck. And that is such a dangerous place to be that I deserve because it is just, we saw it with COVID when there was the revenge spending. We had to be locked up in our houses and we couldn't see our families and we had to wear a mask. And as a result, I'm going to buy all the Lulu lemon that might. I'm going to Italy. Yeah, I'm going to Italy. And it's a natural response. So I'm not mad at your husband, but I do want to stop him from doing something that I think he's actually going to regret because then next thing, you know, he's going to be

Starting point is 00:55:05 the one calling the show talking about, I bought a truck, and next thing I know I lost, I lost my job, my wife's mad at me, right? So we're just trying to help him. I'll send you a copy of the book. What's your household income? Okay. Thank you. Hey, what's your household income, Mary, before you go? About 170. Okay, and what's your car worth? Probably 55. We bought it for, I think, 60 back in 2023 when we had our third year.

Starting point is 00:55:35 Well, here's what I want to throw out there. Our parameter around cars and things that go down in value, boats, motorcycles, whatever, is that it should add up to no more than half of your annual income. So the truth is, you guys are going to have way too much car, considering your income and your financial world. And so here's my compromise. He can have the truck now if he goes out and gets a 25,000. car and sells his forerunner.

Starting point is 00:55:57 Could we find a sweet truck? Yeah, I suggested that. How much better are they five years later? Is that technology really that much better? I don't know. I don't really care about trucks, but he does. Well, he just wants the newest, shiniest thing. I would say, here's the compromise.

Starting point is 00:56:16 We can use whatever cash we have now to get the truck that we can afford with that amount of money. And if we can't afford that, you want a nicer truck, we got to wait, and we have to make more money. It's way too much of our world to have $110,000 tied up with things going down in value, even when we make $170. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-R-R-R-E-F-Y. When it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, Y-R-R-E-F-E-F-Long you dig out with a low fixed rate, refinancing, and a clear path forward. Go to Y-R-R-E-F-Y-R-E-F-Y. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey, not available in all states.

Starting point is 00:57:00 Okay, today's question comes from Jenna in Illinois. She says, my husband and I are in baby step two, but are also in stork mode, as we'll have our first baby in a few months. That's exciting. My question is, how do you deal with the pregnancy cravings? This is not going where I thought it was. If I let myself, I would be building this baby on McDonald's French fries and Oreo cookies. So far, I've done my best to limit those cravings and not let them take over, but this is not easy. Is it okay? a splurge on a drive-through French fry order once a week. The cravings really do get wild sometimes and the emotions, the emotional swing is crazy. Should I work on letting the cravings pass or can I splurge a little until they go away later in my pregnancy? Oh my gosh. I love this question. This is real. This is not what I was thinking. Yeah. Okay. What's your take, Jade? I fight me in the comments if you must. You're all, you know, some of us, pregnancy is one of those once in a lifetime. Some of us, twice in a lifetime, four times in a lifetime thing. Go get some French fries for crying out loud.

Starting point is 00:58:05 Please, woman, go get the French fries. That's all I have to say on the matter. My sister told me this, and she either told me this to make me feel better, or maybe it is scientific. But if the baby asks for it, it's because you need it. There you go. You just need to have it. It's science.

Starting point is 00:58:21 It's science. All I know is this. It means that you need energy. If you crave carbs or you need, it's telling your body something is what she told me. Pre-dad George would be like, no, you stick to the plan no matter what. And then I had to deal with a pregnant woman with cravings. I don't want to get in the middle of a pregnant woman and her craving. It is, yes, ma'am, I am on it.

Starting point is 00:58:43 Now, could you do things? You know what? I think she went the, I think she was salty. Salty. Like salty snacks. And then it switched to sweets with our latest. Can I tell you mine, if that crispy cream light was on? The hot sign's on.

Starting point is 00:58:57 You could stop me. Better bet, Jay's in that drive-thru. You could not stop me. You still can't stop me. I do think limiting it is good because it can turn into a habit. And I would try to go, hey, what cravings can we accomplish through shopping at the grocery store versus eating out? Because that's where it triples or quadruples.

Starting point is 00:59:15 Yeah. Because that's the markup. A potato is a potato. Alexa has those great ones in the air fryer. I was going to say, you can get, now it's McDonald's fries are top tier. Their diet Coke is top tier if you know, you know. It just hits different. You can't get a Diet Coke from the.

Starting point is 00:59:28 store and it hit the same. That's just the truth. Ask any woman. That's true. But are there, can we get Oreos from the store? Sure. And that's a grocery line item. So if those are your cravings, then you can grocery shop for them, I would say fair game. How much is a McDonald's? Let's, you want to know what I would do to make you feel better? What's the math on it? How much is a McDonald's large fry? I would say, I don't know, three or four bucks probably. Five dollars? Oh gosh. This is like price is right. Two dollars? Four dollars for a lot of time. Yeah, I was going to say four bucks. Okay, so four bucks once a week, that's about, you know, you're talking 16 bucks a month. Uh-huh. That's not bad. 20 bucks a month after tax. I would cut something else out of the budget

Starting point is 01:00:06 in order to make this the priority that it needs to be. Put a cravings line item and set it for that $20 amount. That's right. And then you kind of have the permission to spend without guilt and without getting in a fight. You could lower, hypothetically, you could lower your grocery budget by $16. Make it a meal. And just make a sub and just say, you know what? I will make this, I will make this happen. sacrifice in another area so that you don't lose your progress. Trade off. But there's not a lot you can do.

Starting point is 01:00:33 And the thing with pregnancy cravings, they'll just switch. You know, like, well, I just bought nine pounds of pickles. And now you hate pickles. You can't stand the smell of pickles. That's my life. It does happen. What was her, what was Whitney's aversion? I don't remember if it was coffee.

Starting point is 01:00:47 Oh. The smell of coffee? She's going to correct me. It's all a blur when you have a pregnant wife. There's a lot going on, especially when you got a toddler and she's pregnant. you're surviving. Yep, yep, yep. So no shade thrown at Jenna for wanting some fries once in a while.

Starting point is 01:01:04 All right. Colton is in Huntsville up next. What's going on, Colton? Hey, how are you doing? Great. What's your question? So I retired from the military. I'm 38, moved up to Huntsville, Alabama to take a sales job after I tried some sales in Florida and figured I might be pretty good at this unique opportunity. And it's just door-to-door, cold calling all day, every day.

Starting point is 01:01:28 on churches, schools, and businesses selling LED signs. Well, my first year I made about $100,000. Woo. So I was going pretty good. Well, now this year is my second full year, and I've made about $502,000. Whoa. Dude, you can sell some LED.

Starting point is 01:01:47 Yeah, and my retirement's about $68,000 a year tax-free. I don't have anything else set up. I mean, I've got health care the rest of my life. Yeah, well, thank you for your service, by the way. And I'm glad you've transitioned into the workplace so effectively and spectacularly. Yeah, well, yeah, it's been good. I like people. I like.

Starting point is 01:02:13 Now, is this just a random good year, or is it you're like, I could do this every year? This is consistent. Oh, well, it's a unique situation because I'm basically also in a roundabout way operating as a COO of the whole company. because it's just a unique situation with the way the business structured. So I grind it a lot harder than I did the first year this year. I probably won't stress myself out as much to hit this level because we're just not internally set up to handle this amount of work by myself because I have to go quote the job, sell the job, acquire the customer,

Starting point is 01:02:49 see it get installed, close it all out. Can you hire help? You have enough money. Can you hire an assistant? Can you... That's been recommended. Now, I've done a very good job delegating and paying people on the side to close things out so that I can move on to other jobs and other, you know, things like that.

Starting point is 01:03:10 But I haven't thought about that yet, but I just, I wasn't set up. I didn't see it was going to happen this way, so I didn't have a LLC or anything set up. So he's just been, because I'm a 1099 straight commission. Have you set aside money for taxes? Well, I've saved about 430 of the 502 that I've made this year. My gosh. You don't need it. That's what's crazy about this.

Starting point is 01:03:36 Yeah, so I've saved it just all out of fear of I didn't know what my taxes were going to be. I didn't know what I. Yeah, you might have a $150,000 tax bill. So I'd be on those quarterly estimated payments and not be shocked because you could get penalties and fees. I just now hired an accountant and then a lawyer to set up an LLC so that this next year I start getting paid through the LLLC. LLC, start automizing. I've got a 401k that I'm going to set up. I just, I owe about 280 on my house. It's worth probably 350. That's the only debt I have, no credit card debt. So what's your question? My thing is, do I just, I have this huge goal of not having a house payment.

Starting point is 01:04:17 And my, I guess my question is, do I take 70,000 and max out and put into the contribution, my 401k to avoid taxes on that or do I just eat what my taxes are going to be, see where my money's at, and pay the house off? If I were you, I would invest up to 15%, assuming you've got three to six months of expenses set aside. If you don't take some cash, set it aside, your market as an emergency fund. If I were you, I do six months, I would then make sure you're investing 15%. Once you get that 401K set up, that's the magic number you want, 15% of your gross income.

Starting point is 01:04:55 which that's 75 grand if you made 500. Yeah, like I could max contribute this year the way I've got set up is 70 grand. And I didn't know if I should do that or just pay the taxes, what I'm going to take the hit that I'm going to get hit with. I'm 38. Okay. I mean, you're basically front-loading a new retirement fund right there with 70 grand. That's going to, that's amazing.

Starting point is 01:05:19 Now, if you want to pay off the house. The rest of my life is about 70 grand tax-free. and then, of course, it goes up with inflation. Yeah. But if you wanted to pay off the house today and you still have money left over to pay all your taxes and then you're really set up to build some serious wealth. Because if you keep making this money and you just invest most of it,

Starting point is 01:05:38 you're going to have about $10 or $20 million at 60 years old. Yeah, yeah. And so that's just kind of where I was out. Do I take that lump sum and go ahead and put it into a 401K to avoid paying taxes on it and get it invested? or do I just take the hit that I'm going to get hit on tax? Well, the good news is the house is going to get paid off. Yeah, it's going to get paid off fast regardless.

Starting point is 01:05:59 I would get with your tax accountant and go, hey, what's my best tax saving strategy so I don't give the IRS more than I have to? And any money left over paid the taxes with and whatever's left after that, throw it at the mortgage and you'll pay off the house next year. And Colton, good job. Well done, my guy. Well, guys, we've been celebrating all week long, Jade Warshaw's new book,

Starting point is 01:06:36 What No One Tells You About Money, is officially here. If you've ever known what to do with your money but still couldn't follow through, it's not a discipline problem. Your emotions are getting in the way. Frustration, fear, shame, anger, all of that shows up in how he handle money and this book brings behavioral finance down to earth. And Jade and her husband have lived it.

Starting point is 01:06:55 And she unpacks it masterfully in a way that will grip you. You'll read this book in like two days, Max. It helps you understand what's really happening, gives you a practical approach to master those emotions that are sabotage, your money. You can get your copy for 2499 or Ramsey Solutions.com slash store. If you're on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. Sarah is in Chicago up next. What's going on, Sarah?

Starting point is 01:07:18 Hi, so I'm 23 and I graduated college in May of 25. And when I graduated, I had two full-time jobs making over $8,000 a month after taxes. And lifestyle coup kind of hit me. So for my grad gift, I bought a use Porsche for $20,000. And, And then I moved to Chicago, which doubled my living expenses. And then unexpectedly last month, one of my jobs ended. It was a contract. And so now I only have one job. And I realized I could barely cover my bills with that job.

Starting point is 01:07:48 And so I stopped investing from my 401K, which left me like a $200 buffer after. But then my student loan payment deferment period ended. And so now I have a 500 monthly payment that just does not fit in my budget. And I can't afford it. So now you're back in the red. And like negative 300. What's the income? Exactly.

Starting point is 01:08:08 What did it go down to? So now after tacos, I'm making like 4,900. And my basic budget is like 4,700. Okay. So what it sounds like happened and it happens to the best of us, you got excited because you were doing well. And I get it. But you kind of started doing things out of order.

Starting point is 01:08:31 And so now what I think George and I are going to attempt to do is get you back on track in doing things in the proper order. We're going to right size, as they call it, in the corporate world. Right, sizing. You were investing. It wasn't quite time to invest yet. You were buying a car, but it was time to pay off the student loans. It was kind of all jumbled up. So first off, the student loans, is that the only debt you have or is there other debt? Besides the car loan, just those two. Okay. So the student loans, you said about 500 bucks a month, but what's the full amount? It's 46,000. Okay. And then

Starting point is 01:09:04 the car. What's the full amount of that? 20,000. Okay. And there's nothing else, no credit cards, no medical, nothing else? No, nothing else. Okay. Do you have any money saved? I have a 60k total, like 45 in investments in 20K or 15 in my emergency fund. So a $15,000 emergency fund. I love that you said that. So the way we would teach it, and remember, the point is to do this in the right order. If I were to you, oh great, $15,000 saved in the face of debt, it's not really your money, right? Because you owe $46,000 to one place and $20,000 to another. So is it fair to say that that's not actually yours? Yes. Yes. So what I would suggest you do, but it's also fair to say, well, I need a little bit of a buffer jade. So that's the way the baby steps are set up. The first thing you need,

Starting point is 01:10:01 you just need $1,000. It's you. You just need $1,000. You just need $1,000. between you and the rest of the world so that if something comes up, you can deal with it without going into debt. So that's what I would do. I'd put $1,000 aside and then that would leave you 14,000, and I would take that and I would throw it at this debt because the next step is for you to pay off your consumer debt. And so with that 14, you're going to come, you know, very, very close to knocking out the car. And then as you're paying off the debt, you're going to work to increase your income so you can do it even faster. And then after the debt's gone, now we can start to save up an emergency fund and it will actually be your money. It will actually be what it's intended to be, which is

Starting point is 01:10:39 a safety net and a sense of security against all the things that might try to come at you versus what it is today, which is kind of just this nagging feeling that it's there, but it's not really yours and there's the debt there. Let's, we're trying to solve for peace here. Yeah? How does that hit you? I've listened to your guys' show for a while, so I know that you guys, you typically talk about doing like the $1,000 emergency fund, but it really scares me. I was a foster kid who like eight out of the system, so I don't have like, there's nothing I can fall back on if, let's say, I lose by other jobs. Like, I'm not going, I can go back to being a server doing anything.

Starting point is 01:11:18 Like, I will never, you know, but it just really scares me to have nothing in savings, you know, like that really scares me. Like, $1,000 is like, like that. My rent is $2,200, so I couldn't even pay my rent, you know, like that scares me. Here's the alternative, though. It scares me to have you sitting with 66,000. of debt and it's going to take you forever to pay it off for the normal American. And so this is a scary move that makes you really, it lights a fire under you to get out of debt faster. Because right now you're kind of comfortable with the emergency fund. And comfort is the enemy of progress in this case. And so once you throw that at the debt, you're like, oh, game on.

Starting point is 01:11:54 Like, we're in this thing. So do you have a bunch of student loans? Are they broken up? Or is it one giant loan? It's a bunch. Okay. It's a bunch, yeah. So you could probably knock out the 14K. If you got smaller debts that are smaller than 20K, you could probably knock out a few student loans right there, which frees up those payments, right? Yeah. That's good. Which could get you at least to a break-even point. And then what is your rent every month? My rent is $2,200. Yeah, there's a big problem. Are you living a loan? I do. Okay. That's eating your lunch right now as far as your take-home pay to rent ratio.

Starting point is 01:12:31 It's 45%. Is there a way to get a roommate? in my current in my current living situation that I couldn't have a roommate but I could like when this leases I could move somewhere else but my lease isn't until October so that's not like helpful

Starting point is 01:12:48 you know until October yeah what about take picking up a second job I'm super open like I've been like interviewing and stuff but it's you know right after the holidays people are anything but you know especially I work in tech

Starting point is 01:13:03 so it's just multiple interviews it could take months so it's just like nothing right now, but I'm open to like getting a serving job or something like that. I would do that. I do that immediately until the job that you really want does open up. It's going to do, it's going to help out your budget, number one, but it's also going to help out your mental state because that feeling of, oh my gosh, I'm just barely making it. I don't have a job. I'm not making the income. You don't want that to persist.

Starting point is 01:13:26 And so bringing in income, getting your budget right side up is really going to help you. It's going to help you perform better in the interviews. It's going to, you know, all of that is going to be affected by that. that. I want to send you a copy of the book because the fear that you were talking about earlier about being a foster kid, I talk in the book about fear of the fear of doing a certain action can actually keep us in a more scary place. And George said that. It's scarier to sit with $60,000 of debt. And it's almost like you're not able to see how scary that is because of this other fear that's operating over here that we can actually do something about. And so I want to

Starting point is 01:14:08 walk you through that because this is so common and it makes a lot of sense. I have empathy for that and I want to validate. Like that makes total sense that you would be, you know, have that scarcity mentality in that way. But it doesn't mean that it's an excuse to stay that way. I think we can walk you through it because right now you're calling in the show. So you're up against it regardless, right? So let's get you from against that wall and get you moving forward and not let that fear stop you from the progress that George and I both know that you can make. Are you living in the city, Sarah? Yeah, I live like downtown.

Starting point is 01:14:42 Okay. Do you need a car right now? I mean, in Chicago, no, you don't need a car. But I think I'm from, like, rural, Illinois, so I'm just very used to having a car. I don't know how to not have a car, but I mean, I think Chicago has great transit. Yeah, that's what I was going to say is, I mean, you could really get out of debt much faster. you take your 14 plus the Porsche's worth 20 at least? Yeah. That's pretty wild.

Starting point is 01:15:09 That's half your debt gone right there. Ooh, I would do that. Because here's the napkin math. If you don't sell the car, but you take the 14 and apply it to your debt, leaves you with 52,000. Now, if you apply 1,000 a month, you're done in 52 months. You apply 2,000 a month. You're done in 26 months, about two years.

Starting point is 01:15:26 Right now, we don't even have a dollar to scratch together because of our budget. So that's where I'm just showing you the reality. If we stay the same, you are going to be in debt for a long time. If you decide to make some drastic changes, two years from now, you can be debt-free. You make $2,000 a month take home from this other job where you sell the Porsche. Now we're making progress. That's the goal here. So hang on the line.

Starting point is 01:15:47 We're going to send you Jade's new book, what no one tells you about money. We're rooting for you, Sarah. You got this. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw, taking your calls at AAA 8-28-2. 5-2-2-25. Megan is in Virginia Beach. What's going on, Megan?

Starting point is 01:16:16 How can we help today? Hey, thank you for having me. Absolutely. I need some advice, y'all. And it really, it boils down to two things. The first is how to approach the conversation with my husband about the benefits of combining our finances. And the second is whether that's even appropriate.

Starting point is 01:16:38 So to give you a little bit of context, My husband and I have been married for two years. I came into the marriage with a mortgage, about $280,000 in a mortgage, but otherwise no debt. And he came to the marriage with close to $300,000 in student loan debt and no assets. And, you know, this is something that obviously we knew we had talked about. And unfortunately, he was unemployed for the first year of our marriage. has since renamed employment. He's doing well.

Starting point is 01:17:15 But during this time, our finances have been completely separate. You know, he's gave some of the things actually that you talk about. I think he's got some emotional baggage that's tied to that amount of student loan debt. And he's concerned that, you know, should we combine finances, there's a possibility that the creditors may come after combined assets or, they may try to adjust his payment schedule based on our combined income. And I think that those are all valid results. But some of the conversations I've had with him are, well, I think there's major benefit

Starting point is 01:17:57 to combining our incomes because just the visibility, right? We would be on the same page. We would be able to plan for things together like retirement. We wouldn't have to have the conversation about who's going to pay for dinner on Friday night. Who's picking up with that? You know, like food and stuff like that. And, you know, he's making a little bit of money now. Um, he hasn't started paying the food in London yet. Oh, my gosh, it's a different story. But what is he making? What do you make? Yeah. So I make about a $140,000 a year. Um, and he makes about 130 right now.

Starting point is 01:18:34 Okay. But he's his own business. So after all of the overhead, I think last year he took up, he took home about 40. What? Oh, so his income is only 40. It's not 130K. Yeah. When you say took home, like on his taxes, his revenues were 130, but his salary. After expenses, he really made 40, according to the IRS. Right, right. And so, you know, part of that is owning your own business. You know, he writes off a lot of things. What is his degree? What did he go to school for? I'm sorry? What did he go? Lawyer. And what kind of business? does he do? He's got his own law practice. Okay. How long has he been at it? About five years. And each year he's made 40,000 or less or more? Well, he should, no, this year has been the best year.

Starting point is 01:19:30 Hey, hey, let me ask you a question. Is he a good lawyer? He is. That's why I was going, is that his earning potential is going to keep going. And so... Can he go work for someone else and make 50, 60, 70, 80K today? He can, but he won't. Why not? He won't. He can't work for other people.

Starting point is 01:19:53 Why? He doesn't play nice with others? Kind of. He's tried. But truly... He is a really good lawyer. truly tell I need to understand that because if it's if it's a real thing it's a real thing but if it's just a preference then we have something that we actually need to talk about right yeah so I've structured this conversation by saying because I've brought this up before you know why don't

Starting point is 01:20:22 you go to local law firm ABC and yeah you're going to have some taxes that are going to come or your some payments that are expenses that are going to come out of your payroll but at the end of the day, like, we can budget and we can, you know, start to get on the same page about these things. It's not like feast or famine. Yeah. Building a business is different than just being good at the task that the business does, right? Yeah. And he, it's a good question. Um, and I'm just, we're looking at just basic napkin math going, if you make 40K, you're not going to, you're not going to pay off 300K. Yeah, and that's kind of what I've been struggling with in addition to the conversation of combining

Starting point is 01:21:16 our finances. Here's the thing. You married this guy. I'm just going to, I'm going to try to shoot you straight here. You married this guy, so you are one. Today, you're one. The things that you're talking about, you could benefit from a counselor. It seems like there's some things that you're frustrated with, unhappy with, and you've

Starting point is 01:21:36 had the conversations and it seems like it's to no avail. You could use a third party mediating between that so that you guys can come to a way that you discuss this and it actually makes progress. Because right now it feels like you've just hit a wall and you feel like it doesn't matter what I say he's not listening on the issue of him making $40,000 for the fifth year in his own law firm. That's not really a law firm. Okay. Now, as for the combining of money, I do believe you need to combine your money because at that point, we're talking about goals and a share. lifestyle, shared values, and so I think that's important to do. Is it that he doesn't want to combine, or is it that you don't want to combine because of the things you listed earlier?

Starting point is 01:22:17 No, actually, I've been a complete, I've wanted to combine. Just because, you know, I married, I knew that he had the student loaned debt, but at the end of the day, like you were saying, the goals and the values are much more important to me than, you know, other things that we can work through that I knew about. Good. But he has been hesitant to combine the finances because at some point he's going to have to start paying on student loan debt. And he's concerned that his payment is going to be larger because I don't. And there's where the values are. Here's my thing.

Starting point is 01:22:53 I think that's BS. I think this is all about pride and shame. I think so too. And he doesn't want to drag you into his mess because he made it and he's a big man and he's going to take care of it. I don't think this is about a restructured payment that he's worried about. because if the goal is to pay the debt something off, then the payment amount doesn't matter anyway because you'd be paying well above whatever

Starting point is 01:23:11 they'd assigned to you anyway, right? Yeah, right. Well, yeah, and I've always been, I think it's also kind of a difference in how we approach debt because I've always been aggressive when it comes to repayment. Hence to no debt.

Starting point is 01:23:27 Well, this goes back to the goals and values part, which is if you combine, these are the things that you talk about over your money meetings. You sit down with your spouse and you say, okay, you share, here's what I'm feeling. And I told somebody this earlier today. You sit down and you say, you know what, I've been feeling there's a disconnect with our money. I feel like this is an area that we really could work to be closer on and have more transparency

Starting point is 01:23:54 and have more support for one another. I want to support you. I see the debt that is in your name and I want to help. I want us to be one on this. and I would love if we could get on the same page. That's the first conversation and start to bring those walls down. That's why I said a mediator can help. And then we need to, once you get on the same page of, yeah, let's pay off the set.

Starting point is 01:24:15 Now it's how intense are we going to get? The byproduct is the budget. So I'll tell you, it's a lot easier to pay down $300,000 with $180,000 income instead of 40. Right. And so you are the light at the end of this tunnel. You should need to convince them that this is our debt and we're going to pay it off together. And there's no shame here. it down. Let's get to work. Send her a copy of the book. Christian, please. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:24:38 Alex is up next in Chicago. What's going on, Alex? What's your question today? Hi, guys. I'm just trying to call in to see if I could make a career change and become like an entrepreneur in my life. Okay. Tell us more. What are you doing now? I'm a heavy equipment operator. I make pretty good money. I'd say I made six figures last year, which I guess just ended a couple weeks ago. And that was my first year making that much money. So I got a lot of life coming at me right now. 100,000 or 200,000?

Starting point is 01:25:22 Yeah, 100,000, 104,000. Okay. Way to go. And you said you had a lot of life coming at you? What does that mean? Yeah. So my daughter just turned one, actually, New Year's Day. My other daughter is going to be born in April.

Starting point is 01:25:38 And I just closed on a house. Well. And I'm getting married in October of this year. Okay. Okay. So the question is you're wanting to transition out of your job doing heavy equipment into possibly starting your own business. What would the business be?

Starting point is 01:25:56 The same thing you're doing now, just on your own, or something different? It'd probably be something pretty different, honestly. I was looking at getting into real estate, and I was talking to one of my buddies, and he was saying that home inspectors make really good money. and that when he, it was specifically mobile home inspectors, he was looking at purchasing one and he said that the only guy in the area was booked out for like a year. Mm-hmm. So I was looking to transition into that.

Starting point is 01:26:25 So what's, I'm trying to get to the core of what's driving this. Is what's driving this? I don't like my current job and I'm just looking for something else that seems like it could be interesting. Is what's driving this? I need to make more money. And this seems like something that could make me more money because it's not. I love mobile home inspecting, so let me go do that, right? So what's driving this?

Starting point is 01:26:44 Right. Well, I guess being a dream of mine, as well as, like last year, like I said, I made good money, but I worked a lot of hours. And I just want to be able to be more present in my daughter's lives. Okay. I see. So it's time is what you're trying to get back. Yeah, I guess, yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:07 Okay. That's a good place to start. And I think that's noble. I love that. Do you have any debt? No debt free. Debt free. Getting ready to get married.

Starting point is 01:27:18 I'm about it by. Yeah, you got the mortgage. Is your soon-to-be wife, fiancé, will she be working? Are she going to stay home with the kids? She's currently a stay-at-home mom. And she probably will be up until they go to school, I'd say, at least. Okay. So probably about five or six years, you know.

Starting point is 01:27:37 Okay. So what do you guys need to live and to accomplish your financial goals? Could you live on, because here's the thing, home inspectors, I just looked it up. The average salary is 55 to $62,000 a year. So I don't want you to jump into this and go, well, I'm going to be making more. Based on my time. I'll be an entrepreneur. It may be a grind. And you might need to own your own home inspection business long term to be making six figures. And you might, yeah, and you might have to be an ex, like really, really good at it, which is brand new for you in that area. So there's, I feel like there's a huge curve there. So here's my question. I like to get the dock, you know, the boat close to the dock. So could you start to go through the training education process, pass the exams, get licensed if that's required?

Starting point is 01:28:26 And, you know, maybe a year for now, we revisit this and see if you're still into it and you want to pursue it. Yeah, I don't see why I wouldn't be able to, you know, start the process now, but then go full time a year, you know, whatever the timeline is. I'd actually take a step I would this is just me based on what I've heard you say

Starting point is 01:28:47 I would take a step back I would I would do Ken Coleman's find the work your wired to do and figure out what it really is that you would be wired

Starting point is 01:28:57 to do that you'd be really good at that you could go into business on your own or that you could pursue as a different path because this really does and there might be more to it

Starting point is 01:29:06 that you didn't say but it kind of just sounds like oh here was an idea I'll just go with that just a random buddy offhand and now it's like total career change. Yeah and before you sink time and money and effort, I would really explore your option. Nothing's on fire here. So you've got time to really narrow it down and go, you know, what do I want to do? What would I be good at? What would really light my fire?

Starting point is 01:29:28 Because long term, you're going to want something that you're passionate about doing so you actually stick with it. The money is not going to be enough. The time thing won't even be enough to sustain you if it's not something that you really, really want to be doing. So that's what I would do if I were in your shoes, I will just drill down a little bit more on what that career needs to be. Okay. And I'd meet with some people who do home inspections for a living and get their take on the business and your area and what's going on, where you can make good money. And what's the difference between working for a company versus yourself? I would get all of that laid out and then decide from there.

Starting point is 01:30:05 So we're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's find the work your wire to do. There's a get clear career assessment inside of that. So take that and use those results to then start to narrow down that next thing for you if the heavy equipment life isn't for you. Okay. And then when would I know, like when I'm prepared to make that leap into becoming, you know, an entrepreneur? It really is like George said earlier.

Starting point is 01:30:28 So knowing that your wife is going to stay home, calculating what your mortgage is going to be. So there's a couple of principles I'd go by. Number one, your mortgage can't be any more than 25% of your take home. So that's going to be so, so, so key because for a lot of people, that's the maker break. So working backwards and say, here's what we think the mortgage is going to be. Here's what we think it's going to take to operate our lifestyle and knowing exactly what that number is. So you say, okay, I need to be, I need to find a way that I'm doing the job I'm doing now while

Starting point is 01:30:58 starting the new business. And slowly but surely that business is going to start making more and more money. So you're going to have a period where you're actually working more now. you're going to be juggling a lot. And then the goal is you go, okay, if I scale this home inspection stuff to full time, this is what I could realistically be making. If I was doing this 40 hours a week instead of eight. So that's when you know, okay, I'm very clear.

Starting point is 01:31:23 And you'll know it. You'll go, oh my gosh, I love this. I'm making good money doing it. If I left tomorrow, I know I've got enough, you know, leads in the pipeline and connections and work that I could leave this heavy equipment job and go do my own thing. Okay. Yeah, I guess my whole thing was like, I'm only 22, so I'm pretty young.

Starting point is 01:31:42 So I got like a lot of time where like now I could, you know, make the jump I feel like before it's like I'm solidified. No, but making a jump with a pregnant wife and a one-year-old and a new home is not the time you want to go eat, pray, love, and pursue your dream. Right now, you have a family to feed. We can't risk a drop in income. Yeah, and to your point, you're 22. You have time. You have time, my friend. do this the right way because what's going to happen is when you start this, here's what could happen.

Starting point is 01:32:12 You say, I'm just going to make the leap. I'm just going to jump. You get into it. You hate it. And you're not making any money. And you're like, dang it, why did I do that jump? Whereas the way we're talking, it also allows you to get your feet wet and decide, do I like this? Is this right for me? You haven't let your big job go yet. Right? And you can make the choice and slowly decide versus I'm just going to jump with both feet and, you know, God will protect me. You don't want to do it that way. And Alex, we're also going to send you a copy of Dave Ramsey's latest book, Build a Business You Love, and that'll help you on the entrepreneurship side to really get a clear picture of what this is going to take. How do I grow this thing and not just let it be a little side project and side hustle? And I'm confident.

Starting point is 01:32:53 You're 22. You're making $104,000. You're not scared of hard work. That's really the secret sauce of being an entrepreneur. People think, well, Jade, I want to be my own boss and work four hours a week. You're going to work more than everybody else. Yeah, that is not entrepreneurship. You got sold a course and a lie. Entrepreneurship is working 80 hours a week for six years just to get the thing off the ground to hope that you can sustain it.

Starting point is 01:33:17 And then it still work from there. Ask Dave Ramsey. He's been at it for 30 plus years. Nothing about it is easy. Nothing about it is passive. If anything, it's more work, but it's rewarding if that's what you're wired to do. So, explore it. I wish you the best. And those books are going to be really helpful. Jay, too many people, they, I like that he's at least thinking about this. at 22. Too many people call us at 42. They're going, hey, I hate what I've been doing for the last two decades. And I'm burnt out. I'm fatigued. He's doing this from a place of strength right now. Absolutely. And so time is on his side. I think one of the most dangerous things people can do is get rushed. Because when you're rushed, you get sloppy. And when you get sloppy, you make mistakes. He's got time. And most of us do have time. We make it seem like, you know, we're backed against

Starting point is 01:34:01 a corner, but we're not. There's options and there's time. And we can take a our time and do it right, like the song says. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and get a personalized plan made just for you. Simply head to the show notes of this episode and click on the link titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps and complete the quiz? Nicole is in St. Paul, Minnesota up next. Nicole, how are you today?

Starting point is 01:34:38 Good. How are you? Great. How can Jade and I help? I have a question. I am a stay-at-home mom. I have been for over four years now, and I have just been hearing some stories

Starting point is 01:34:50 about stay-at-home moms, being state-home moms for 10-plus years, and then all of a sudden, their husbands wanting a divorce, and they have nothing. No financial, no credit cards in their name, no retirement accounts in their name, and I was like, oh, that's me.

Starting point is 01:35:08 I don't want to be that person just in case in however many years of something were to happen. And so I'm just, just wondering what steps I should be taking now to prepare myself financially. How does your marriage feel today? Like, how do you feel about your marriage? Is it in a good place? Do you feel like you guys have been in a tough place? We've been in a tough place for probably over a year now.

Starting point is 01:35:34 Okay. So is that, am I right to say that that could affect how this conversation could go and his openness to the conversation? Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure, honestly. I feel like I don't suspect that we would want to do that, like to get a divorce or anything. but I mean the conversation about you saying essentially, hey, you know, I've been thinking about our money and I've realized I kind of feel disconnected from it and I've been disconnected from it of my own volition. I haven't paid attention. I haven't, you know, I've kind of let you handle that and I'm realizing that wasn't the right place for me to, that wasn't the right stance for me to have on this. It's it's our life and I need to, it's almost like you putting the ball in your court and say, you know, I, I need to kind of step up. here, right? I think that's a good way to approach it. How do you think he would receive that? Is he open to full transparency? Your name on everything along with mine. Yes, honey, you are the beneficiary on my 401k. See, right here, I'll show it to you. Like, is he open to that? Yeah. Yeah, I think, so I used to take care of our finances of like the budgeting and planning and

Starting point is 01:36:51 all that. But then just more responsibility has gotten my plates. I gave that to him. And I do feel like if I were to bring it up to him. I'm like, hey, let's talk about all this. He'd be like, yeah, let's do it. Let's get you on that. Oh, good. But I, but I have a lot of hard time trusting that he'll follow through with that. And so I'm feeling like, like, I will have to do it if that makes sense. Well, I think that's okay. I mean, I will say when it comes to money, there does tend to be, certain spouses will take the lead more so in certain areas, but as long as the transparency is there and both people want to participate in their best, in the area. is they're best suited, I think that's okay. So if you have the conversation, he says, yes,

Starting point is 01:37:32 100%. Here's the password. You know, if you want to pop in there and just check it, that's cool. Yeah, I think that's great. Now, as far as the, if the worst happened, right, nobody plans a divorce. So if, if the worst happened, would you be protected? The first step is, yes, I'm 50, 50 on everything. We do things in both of our names, but there's a lot of it that will go into the hands of the courts. And in most states, assets accumulated during marriage will be evenly divided 50-50. And, you know, if you're a stay-at-home mom, there's going to be spousal support on top of child support. So unless he's a deadbeat, we've gotten these calls. So I'm not saying it's out of the ordinary. We get the calls. We're like, oh, yeah, he just doesn't pay and we can't find him.

Starting point is 01:38:17 Can't find him. No, I hope that's not this guy. I hope he's an honorable man of integrity and character and takes care of his family, even if in the event of a divorce. But, you know, knowing where, the money is at, the accounts, the debts, the passwords, the insurance, making sure that your wills are in place. These are things you should do anyways, regardless of what's going on in your marriage. But I think that's wise and being a joint owner on the accounts. Do you guys have a joint checking account? We do. Yeah, we just have one, we have one bank account. Both of our names are on it. All of our savings accounts are there. Good. Okay. All that stuff is going to help. And I don't even like talking about it in a way, because I'm not trying to predict

Starting point is 01:38:58 that for you. But I think for the most part, when we do get those calls about deadbeats, there were red flags. There were markers there that indicated that this person might end up being that type of person. And it doesn't sound like you have

Starting point is 01:39:16 that. It sounds like you got spooked by something you heard. And it's kind of like, could you get in a car accident? Yeah, you could, but are you a safe driver? You wear your seatbelt. Do you see what I'm saying? And so what George and I are suggesting are all of those normal precautions that you should take that are going to keep you safe. But I can't say that there's a 1,000% guarantee that somebody couldn't turn out to be a deadbeat, if that makes sense.

Starting point is 01:39:41 The good news is you're a smart woman. If you needed to, you could land on your feet. And I believe that just by talking to you. Great. Is there hope that we're going to resolve this? Can you guys go to marriage counseling? Or is this like, hey, we just, this is a fork in the road. and it could go either way.

Starting point is 01:40:00 I mean, we're doing marriage counseling currently. Good. And I think it's helping some. I think the big part is I think they get like the trust of feeling like I can depend on him in these really major things. Yeah. Yeah, rebuilding trust is, I mean, that's paramount. The whole relationship is built on that when it's broken.

Starting point is 01:40:20 I mean, it's crazy because it takes forever to build and you can break it in an instant. And then you've got to rebuild. And so I'm sorry you guys are going through this. it's not a paranoid hypothetical in your life. This is a real concern and you have a right to be worried. And then I would go do the things I can control. I would work on me. I'd work on my marriage.

Starting point is 01:40:39 I would make sure that I have access to the accounts, that I'm a joint owner on anything I can be, that I'm legally protected as far as wills and life insurance and beneficiaries. All of that is wise. Can I ask a question about the kids? How old are they? four, two and a half in two months. If it made you feel better, and I'm not saying you need to do this, I'm just putting myself in your shoes.

Starting point is 01:41:06 If I had true worry about the future of my marriage, like truly, like, man, I don't know if we're going to get out of this. There might be part of me that would start thinking, if I were to work, what would I be doing? If I had to pick up a job, just hypothetically, if I had to pick up a job, what would I do? What would that look like? Would I need a degree? Would I need money? If I had, you know, having that conversation with yourself could be a good thing. Again, I'm stepping very lightly because I'm not trying to, I don't, there's a difference in trying to plan for a disaster that you know is imminent versus just putting some bad juju out there, I guess, for lack of a better word.

Starting point is 01:41:47 Planning a new life and you're sort of already living in a sense. Like, I'm not trying to, you see what I'm saying. but only you know where you're at in that relationship. And if you were at the point where it started being at, I just don't know. I don't know. That would be the smart thing to do for you and your children and for him too, because you want everybody to land on their feet. So I'll just throw that out there.

Starting point is 01:42:09 Nicole, we're wishing you the best. I hope that there's healing and restoration in this marriage and that this is a thing you never have to deal with, just a thing that you had to think about for a little while. but it is a real concern and those calls are heartbreaking when she's like, I'm like, okay, what's your income? Well, yeah, you got to avoid it. What's the child support, the alimony? Oh, he doesn't, he hasn't paid. The courts ordered it. He just doesn't. You have a deadbeat, somebody who hasn't been in the workforce for, you know, 15 years, like that sort of thing. It's tough. It's very tough. But I do think it's wise. And if you were working before kids, you know, keep those skills sharp. There's

Starting point is 01:42:44 nothing wrong with that. And maybe the kids, the marriage is great. The kids go to school and you decide, I want to go back to work anyways. Right. Right. Exactly. And so, man, that's tough. We always say that, you know, marriage is grand, divorce is 50 grand, and that it turns marriage into a business transaction. And that's really sad. But then it becomes, okay, who gets what, what accounts go where, and it just kind of

Starting point is 01:43:08 becomes this split, this chasm that you have to deal with. And, I mean, you've got young kids in the mix, too, which just makes things way more complicated. And it's heartbreaking. So the best thing to do is prevent a divorce. and have a healthy, strong marriage, have the accountability and transparency. And that's why we recommend combining accounts. Then there's no surprises.

Starting point is 01:43:29 You can't have financial infidelity when she gets transaction alerts on everything I do, which is what we do in my family. I'm like, what did you spend? Okay, I'd rather have that than I didn't know you did that. Oh, absolutely. I have every password, every single one. Sam Warshaw, watch your back, bro. Don't try it.

Starting point is 01:43:44 He would never, he never would. Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 13, 16. but do not forget to do good and to share. For with such sacrifices, God is well pleased. Mark Twain said, do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. True words. Deborah is in Dallas up next.

Starting point is 01:44:20 What's going on, Deborah? How can we help? Yes, I was wondering. I wanted a pre-up. I've never been married before. My fiancé has. and I just feel like I've worked hard, I've saved, and I just want to know is that a good way to protect myself in the event that something happens. Of course, I don't want a divorce, but, you know, things happen.

Starting point is 01:44:45 So I'm just here to get some advice. What's your net worth? It's about 600. $600,000? Yes. How much of that is your home and how much of it? Is it a business that you own? I don't own a home.

Starting point is 01:44:59 I actually sold my home in the height of COVID and made like $130,000. And I put that in my IRA. So $330,000 is IRA. $120,000 is just my personal savings. And then I recently did an investment in a real estate property where I'm going to make anywhere between $130 to $150 off of one flip. Okay. And how much is the debt on that?

Starting point is 01:45:27 The debt on that is $3.10. But of course, I did a hard money loan. So once that loan is paid off, I pay that back and the profit from the sale of the home will go to me. Again, it's estimated based off the appraisal of the home. Before I finished my flip, I would profit anywhere between $120,000 and $150,000. Oh, that's a risky deal. Okay, that's a different call. Tell us about him.

Starting point is 01:45:50 How long have you guys been dating and engaged for? We've been dating four years. We've been engaged almost a year. he was previously married for 20 plus years with two children they are grown now and he had to of course split his assets his retirement his and have to sell their home and of course his net worth isn't as high as mine and I'm just does he have a lot of death married he did not but he was kind of just left with you know not a lot after the divorce okay what do you make and what does he make?

Starting point is 01:46:30 We both make the same thing. I'm about a hundred grand a year. Okay. Okay. Does your family have a bunch of money? Is your family quite wealthy? Are you standing to inherit a bunch? No.

Starting point is 01:46:41 Okay. So what's, you think his net worth is maybe a few hundred grand? I don't even think it's bad. Okay. So the general, I'll tell you the general parameters around prenups. It's not a never and it's not an always. It's, if there is a huge discrepancy in net, worth and in income, then it could be wise. And it's really to protect against crazy family

Starting point is 01:47:04 versus I don't trust this person and I think it's going south. Now, in your case, you know, $600,000, you've done very well. I'm very proud of you. But the incomes are about the same and it's not like you have $5 million and he's in crippling debt. And so I don't think the variance is so far that I'm like, oh, girl, you need to get a pre-nup yesterday. This is a, if you both feel like this is wise and you both feel like this is the move, you can do that. Well, he's against it. And why is that? I like to know the heart behind why he's against it.

Starting point is 01:47:34 He just said that, you know, he's never asked me for anything, and he feels like that a pre-nup is the doorway to saying, you know, we're going to be divorced. And I tried to explain to him that that's not the case, that, you know, while we're together as things, as we grow financially, we'll both, you know, benefit from what we have and what we grow together, but in the event that something happens, I would like to maintain what I came into the relationship with, which would be my IRA, my personal savings, and the rehab and business that I started with the homes. But he just says, he doesn't want to do it. He thinks that a pre-knup is saying, you know, we're going to get divorced. How old are you guys? I am 45 and he's 53.

Starting point is 01:48:24 Have you brought this before a counselor, or it's just been the two of you talking about it? It's just been the two of us. We only had one conversation. I kind of left it alone because I was like, well, I guess we're not getting married. And he was like, well, I guess we're not. And I kind of just left it alone because I thought it was getting a little heated. I mean, it wasn't a heated conversation, but I could tell it. Did you know?

Starting point is 01:48:50 Yeah. So I haven't brought it up since, but I really, really wanted to. I'm trying to get underneath this to go. how much of this is maybe the shame and baggage and trauma from his divorce and now sort of triggering all of that of like, well, you think I'm going to go back to that and, you know, he's sort of having to relive that. Yeah. Is that part of it?

Starting point is 01:49:10 I don't know. He said that he was young when he got married the first time and I was like, that's my point. We're not young anymore. So, you know, I look at this as a protection instead of a bad thing, like a safety net instead of a bad thing. he's just, he's just against it, and I don't know what to do. Was he, did he have fully combined money with his previous? Yeah. They didn't have combined money.

Starting point is 01:49:38 He just took care of the household. He took care of everything, paid all the bills, and she was free to willingly do whatever with her money. I'd love for you to explore that more with him, because it feels like, and I don't know, this is just a few-minute call with you. We're strangers after four minutes. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 01:49:55 It almost feels like, Like, I could see him thinking, you know what, I don't want to do that again. I want to be fully combined. I want there to be trust. I don't want to be this business where I'm over here and she's over there. And then if it goes our separate ways, I'm just left here. I could see, I can see his side of it. I'll be honest, just given the numbers, I would not suggest it for you.

Starting point is 01:50:16 I wouldn't say, yeah, you need it. I can understand your emotion around it specifically. Well, this is a second marriage, you know, is there a chance that, this could have you know what I mean I could see your side of it too I think there's a lot of emotion here to work through I would suggest working through it with with a counselor somebody who can see both sides and give you guys the language to express what's really going on at the heart of this um and I would say to both of you if you were both on the line right now I would just I'm gonna just say this because this is what I would do pray for an open heart both of you and say let me be open to what they're

Starting point is 01:50:53 saying because if either of you is coming into this very closed off It's going to be hard. But if you can pray to be open-minded and have an open heart and really seek to see the other person's heart on this, it's going to help this come together. And I don't know where it's going to land for you both, but I think that that could not hurt. It won't hurt the process. Okay. So I think that was one conversation.

Starting point is 01:51:14 I would dig deeper and say, hey, I don't want to let this stop us from getting married. I love you. I want to spend the rest of my life with you. I just want to get to a place where we can understand each other. And maybe that means you do get a pregnant. It means you don't get a pre-up, but we have to align on this before moving forward, and time is of the essence. You know, I don't want this to drag on for three years of an engagement, will they, won't they?

Starting point is 01:51:36 Right. Over this piece of paper. And it's also, you've got to look at the laws. Maybe it's, hey, in Texas, only things that were acquired, you know, during the marriage get split. And so you might go, hey, even without the pre-up, he's not going to touch my IRA from before we were married, for example. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Gotcha.

Starting point is 01:51:54 So I'd also get clear on what the laws are. because it may be a moot point and we fought over nothing. Gotcha. Okay. So I hope that helps. Thank you for the call. Thank you. All righty.

Starting point is 01:52:05 Bye, oh, man. Two calls in a row. Yeah, you know what? I think I'm going to go out on a limb here. With social media, you see a lot more of people's stories. You can see other people's lives,

Starting point is 01:52:18 how it pans out. There's a lot of people telling you a lot. And it's up to us to synthesize that and say, like, how common is this? I'm at risk. And I think we are just open up. Opened up to way more. You hear about the edge cases that are crazy. You don't hear about the ones where they just split at 50-50 and it was amicable and they walked away or whatever it is. And so that's the hard part. And I mean, the previous call, they were going through some struggles and she was a stay-at-home mom wondering, am I protected in the case of a divorce?

Starting point is 01:52:45 And you got one that's on the post end of that of, hey, we found new love, but he's been divorced and I want the preempt to protect what I've built. And that's another part of marriage is, are you aligned on the financial values and goals of, all right, he's not doing well with money, but I've done really well, and therefore I don't want to hitch my wagon. Well, that could be a red flag. Now, that's not their case. He's doing really well. He makes great money. He's not in crippling debt. He just had life happen. But the red flag, going back to that, it matters, because you and I, we've taken tons of these calls, and there's always something. There's that thing that you noticed and you ignored. And in this case, she's been with this guy four to five years. You know, you can see,

Starting point is 01:53:24 are the red flags there, and if they are, listen to them. If they're not there, assume goodwill and assume, hey, this is a good guy. Even if it doesn't work out, we'll work it out. Absolutely. Hey, that's the end of this hour. But remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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