The Ramsey Show - App - Content, Crazy and Debt Free! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 3, 2018

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show. Where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open Bones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Andre is with us in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey, Andre, how are you?

Hey, I'm doing well. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So I'm currently finishing up my last year of school, and I'll graduate in April with about $23,000 in debt. The good thing for me is that I have a job lined up. I've already accepted it starting in around September and it pays really well. And it also has a signing bonus. And the thing that I'm considering is doing a Europe trip, maybe two to three, uh, three to $4,000 a few weeks in Europe just kind of as a graduation gift to myself.

Okay. Well, you already gave yourself a gift, $23,000 in student loans. What's your degree in? I'm a double major in international business and management information systems, and then I'll have a minor in German. Good for you. Well done. And so what's your new job?

So I'll be a technology consultant, and I'll be doing a lot of traveling and just really helping businesses solve their technology problems. How much of your travel will be in Europe? It depends on which client I'm working with and what project I'm on. Okay. So there's no guarantees. Majority of projects will be in the U.S.

And how much are you making? I'll make $80,000 a year. Wow, straight out of school. Yep, and my signing bonus will be $12,500. That is absolutely awesome. Congratulations, sir. Yes. Very, sir. Yes. Very, very well done.

Well, none of these decisions are going to bankrupt you, okay? The biggest problem you get into is muscle memory. Anytime you're learning something and you do it right, it locks in to your brain. And when you do it wrong, it locks in to your brain. And when you do it wrong, it locks in to your brain. And so the people who, for instance, are professional athletes, they don't just practice a lot. They practice doing it right a lot. Does that make sense?

Yes. And the problem with your idea is not that it's probably going to ruin your life or something like that. It's not. And it's not that it's so crazy that I can't breathe when I'm talking your life or something like that it's not um and it's not that it's so crazy that i can't breathe when i'm talking to you or something like that it's not it's just really bad muscle memory you're twenty three thousand dollars in debt and you're gonna and you're taking twelve thousand dollars and you're going to europe that's just bad muscle

memory it's a bad it's a bad way to start out your adult life is being a kid for 90 more days. So I wonder if there's another way to get at the same problem and yet do it in a way that sounds wiser. Because the reason you even asked me the question, and you kind of knew I'd probably go there, right? Right. So the reason you even asked me the question is it's tickling you inside of your conscience. You're kind of going, I don't know. It sounds like really like a lot of fun.

I mean, I got an international business degree. I can speak German. This is going to be a blast. You know, I got the money in my hand with the signing bonus. And on the other hand, it kind of feels dumb. And that's what was going on inside your brain, wasn't it? me it just now was that stop was that going on inside your brain or not i was torn okay that's what i mean that's what i'm saying you were torn which just means you're intelligent that's all it means it's why you asked me the question so let's think about this

is there another way to do this um how much vacation do you get with this company in year one i'll accrue the days every pay period and then it'll come to around 25 days vacation a year so what is so wrong with going next summer the summer after after you've worked a year and take 25 days in Europe and pay cash for it. You'll be debt-free. You'll be making $80,000 a year. You save up the money. You're going to have a blast. I think the biggest thing for me now that I think of it is that I miss some of the people

that I met while I was abroad when I was studying there. They won't be there in a year? Yeah, you're right. Will they? They're right. Oh,'ll see them. Yep, you're right. Will they? They're right. Oh, they live there. Oh, okay. Yep.

I mean, it just feels more, I mean, how torn am I about you doing that? Zero. Because you're a stud. I mean, you're coming out of school making 80 grand. Who does that? I mean, come on, man, that's killer. That's awesome. And you got a $12,000 signing bonus to boot you know so i am not worried about your life turning out all right you know

you're gonna be all right so you can do either one and you'll survive you're gonna be okay i just always force myself if i'm torn like that why is it i'm torn And is there a way to do it that feels more grown up, that feels wiser? And, hey, you and I are going to be friends no matter what you do. So I appreciate you calling and talking to me about it. I'm honored that I was included in your conversation of being torn. But if I woke up in your shoes, I don't think you're going to lose hardly anything waiting a year to take the trip. You get 25 days. That's a three-week trip

in europe that ain't no slouch for 24 years old paying cash making 80 grand that ain't no slouch um i didn't even see the ocean until i was 12 so you know i mean come on you're gonna be okay i i yeah you're gonna be okay way. You're obviously a rock star. So, and I think that's part of why you were torn, is you have this sense about, you have some common sense to go with your economics and your German and so forth. So, good call. It's good to talk to you, sir. Either way, I hope you enjoy your trip. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

You jump in. Carol is on Facebook. Dave, I'm thinking about selling my timeshare. Where do I start? Well, Carol, I got really bad news. You got screwed. There's no place to sell a timeshare. You can't give the dadgum things away.

Look your timeshare up on eBay. They're selling them for a dollar. People sell them for a dollar. Why would they do that? Because they want to get rid of the fees, the annual freaking fees. And that's why you're running about selling it. And or you owe money on it. God help you.

So I have looked at numerous ways over the years of doing this show to get people out of timeshares, and I never could find anything until I found this company called Timeshare Exit Team about three years ago. We started endorsing them, and I've had so much fun pissing off the timeshare people because Timeshare Exit Team will get you out of their timeshare. Now, you're going to pay them money to do that. That's what they do. And they charge you up front

and they give you your money back guarantee if they don't get you out, but they'll get you out. They'll get you out of your timeshare. You're just stuck. They're worth nothing. They have no value. There is no market for them.

There's a 99% dissatisfaction with the industry. This pretty much sucks beyond belief. And on top of that, there's several of these people selling these things that tell people in their presentation that Dave Ramsey bought one from them, which is about as dumb as saying Dave Ramsey has a credit card. That's ridiculous. Now, timeshare exit team, do not talk to anybody else. These guys are the best at getting you out. Timeshare exit team, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM,

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Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Thank you for joining us. Amy is with us in California. Hi, Amy. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. I feel really honored to be talking to you. You too.

How can I help? Thank you. I have a question about my husband's employee stock purchase plan. He works, I say, at home with the kids. His employee stock purchase plan

works, to my knowledge, where we put aside money each paycheck. He currently makes $200,000 a year. So we're putting aside each paycheck $1,000 into this employee stock purchase plan. Every six months, we're able to cash it out and buy our stock for at least 15% under the market value. And every six months, we cash it out immediately and cash it out.

So anyway, my direct question is, with our monthly budget, we're in the red without that extra $2,000 a month. I mean, that really puts a huge dent in our budget. You make $200,000 a year and you're in the red? Without that extra $2,000. Why? Gosh, really? I mean, okay, so we just started our budget plan with you last month. We're really gung-ho.

We're excited about it. But, you know, we overbought on our house, living here in California. How much is your house payment? $2,760 a month. That's not your problem because your take-home pay should be $10,000 a month or more. How much is he putting money into 401K also? He is. He's putting in 15%.

And how much of your income is going into cars? We actually just last month, since we started it, we just paid off our car. Good. You don't have another car payment? No, we're done with our cars. We only have two more credit card bills to pay off that amount to $6,179. Wow. Okay.

So $10,000 take-home pay. It should now, not with 15%, and $2,000 coming out. You're not getting home with about $6,000, are you? No. Yeah. So that's where the, does that sound right, $6,000 a month coming in? Yes, that's exactly it. Yes. So does that sound right, $6,000 a month coming in? Yes, that's exactly it, yes. Okay.

So each month, yes, $6,298. Okay, I got it pretty close. All right, well, let's go back and talk about two or three things. Number one, there's not room in your budget for the stock purchase, okay? You knew that before you called me. I did, and that's the problem is I keep talking to my husband about it. Well, you don't have to talk to him about it. You just tell him there's not room in the budget.

We don't make enough money for you to put $2,000 a month into stock. Number two, I wouldn't do it anyway, even if you had the money, and here's why. There's nothing special about this stock purchase plan. All employee stock purchase plans are 15% off. All of them are. Everybody does that that's a publicly traded company and allows their employees to buy their stock, okay? There's nothing special about that.

Here's the other thing. Single stocks are very volatile. It's a very risky investment. Even if it's the company he works for that he feels like he knows something about. Okay? And here's the thing.

If you don't believe me, just pull up that company. You notice I don't even know who it is yet. Okay? No, no, no. I believe you. No, pull up that company on the Internet and pull up their stock. Just type in such and such stock. Okay?

And look at the 52-week high and the 52 week low in other words in one year how much volatility does it have and you will see a swing of greater than 15 so it is entirely possible you lose money on this transaction before you even make the transaction. Okay. That makes sense. And even if you don't, shortly after, you could lose it. Now, it may shoot way up in value. It may shoot way down in value. I don't know. I have tens of millions of dollars invested in the stock market in mutual funds, personally.

And I have none of it, not one penny of it in a single stock. And even if you can cash it out right away, you still advise against it, even though it's the 15% discount. Yeah, because you're not necessarily even going to make that. Okay. You know. Okay. And so I'm just not, this is not worth messing with.

And so you're better off to do some other stuff with your money, like, for instance, bring it home so that you're not in the red, which is absolutely crazy. But you make $200,000 a year, and you're getting home with $72,000. You got that? That's nuts. Okay. So $200,000 a year. Yeah, 15% going into retirement would be $30,000 of your $200,000.

You got taxes coming out. Has he bought a bunch of other stuff in his employee benefits package that he pays for? We have our health benefits like any other person. Oh, you're paying for your health insurance? Correct, yes. We're paying for our health insurance as well. So that's probably $1,000 a month, right? At least, because we have three kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so that's another $12,000 a year. So $42,000 is health insurance and 15% going into retirement out of your $200. And we could just kind of get back down. I just want you to understand, you're trying to run your household on $72,000. That's $6,000 a month when you started with 200 at the top there's a i know this is why we're kind of sick yeah there's a big gap there some of that's taxes and you do live in california so you got a double dip on the taxes again a real high tax rate and but you got you

know federal income taxes a bunch on this so all of that's mixed into this equation but um yeah i wouldn't fool with it because it's single stocks i wouldn't fool with it because 15 is not enough of a gap to fool with i wouldn't fool with it because you're in the red first and foremost and i hope that helps you thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. It's a free call. Lee is in Portland, Maine.

Lobsterland. What's up, Lee? Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, I've heard you, and I've been listening to you for years, speak of buying insurance until you can self-insure. And I'm just wondering if that applies to long-term care insurance as well.

It can. It can. I mean, depending on how much risk you want to take and so forth associated with that. So how much money do you have? Well, my husband and I, we're 61 and 64, and we're working part-time now. We bring in between $3 and $3.25 a year, and we have no debt. College is paid for, and we're empty nesters. We have probably between $7.3 and $7.4.

A million dollars? Yes. Okay, you easily could self-insure through this. Here's what you4. Million dollars? Yes. Okay, you easily could self-insure through this. Here's what you're self-insuring through, okay? The average time spent in a nursing home is 2.4 years. Okay. And the average cost of a nursing home, in your case, you might do a real nice one, say $60,000, right? So you're taking a $180,000 risk.

What percentage stay longer than three years? 24%, one quarter stay longer than three years. Oh, okay. Most of the long-term care insurance covers three to four years, and that's about it. Oh. And 70% of the claims are for home care anyway. Okay. So if you get sick and your husband needs some help taking care of you,

the likelihood when you have a $10 million, $7 million net worth is he's going to hire a nurse to come in and help. Okay. You're not going in a nursing home. I mean, that would be normal, right, in your situation. Right. That's what would happen at our house and we're multi-millionaires too i mean the chances of me putting sharon in a nursing home i'll just hire somebody to stay up at the house 24 7 i'll just turn up turn one bedroom

into a nursing home you know i mean i got i got the funds to cover it and then some so it's not a big deal you can self-insure that through. Because basically the risk is, on average, let's say it's $100,000 to $200,000. That's the risk you're mitigating with this. And you can absorb that risk if you've got $7 million. Okay. So if you want to buy it, you can. It's okay. There's nothing wrong with it.

It's like I don't need life insurance. Sharon's okay if I die, but I've got some life insurance, SWI. Sharon wants it. There's no logical reason except she wants it. She's earned the right to say that, so we got some. Just makes her feel a few million dollars better. I don't know. Whatever. But it's okay.

Feel better. Feel better. That's what it's about. So you can do that. But that's kind of the averages on the nursing home world and what someone in your own situation would typically do. I get asked all the time about what people need to do to improve their family's money situation. Two of the most overlooked things are term life insurance and disability insurance. Both plans make sure that you have income to pay bills and take care of yourself and your family if something

were to happen. For term life, you need to carry 10 to 12 times your income, and I recommend 15 or 20-year plans for most families. Stay away from cash value or return of premium plans. They're just a rip-off. Disability insurance is just as critical. How are you going to pay your bills if you're unable to work? Disability is the leading cause of bankruptcies and foreclosures. And that's why I send you to Zander Insurance. They've been helping my listeners find the right plans at the lowest cost for almost 20 years. Call 800-356-1780 or visit zander.com and compare online. That's 800-356-1780 or zander.com.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Chris is with us. Hey, Chris, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you, sir? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live? Salem, Oregon. Whoa, bit of a haul. Yes, sir. All the way to Nashville. Oh, my goodness. Welcome.

And all the way over here to do your debt-free screen. Yes, sir. How much have you paid off, sir? $31,500. Good for you. And how long did that take? Two and a half years, but the last year I paid off $21,000. Okay.

All right, cool. And your range of income during that time? I started out at $10,000, and this year I'll break the $50,000 mark. Way to go. So, wow, how old are you? 24. Whoa! And how long, what kind of debt was this $32,000? So $4,000 of it was orthodontics.

Got my braces off just last Thursday. And then the other was just all student loans. Okay. All right. Student loans, student loans, and student loans. What do you do for a living? Currently I'm an EMT and field training officer. And I'm actually going into the Air Force in January.

Okay, very cool. So what is the range of income from $10,000 to $50,000? You were 21 1⁄2 when you started this, right? Yeah, something like that. So I was just graduated college at $10,000, and that's what I had just been making at that time. Oh, I see. And then I went into wildland firefighting. I then did Pizza Hut driving, landscaping, lifeguarding.

I worked in a bakery at one point. Oh, my gosh. But your day job is fire? No, it's just ambulance. Okay, EMT. Yep, EMT. All right, very cool. Yeah. But your day job is fire? No, it's just ambulance. Okay, EMT. Yep, EMT. All right. Very cool.

Good for you. What's your degree in? I got a degree in outdoor education and a minor in sport management. Okay, cool. And then you got drawn into the world of EMTs. Yes, sir. Okay, cool. So on the part-time gigs, which one made you the most money per hour?

Per hour, probably the wildland firefighting. Yeah, I would guess. And then the second place would have been Pizza Hut driving, actually. Yeah, you did good, huh? How much did you make driving for pizzas? Let's see here. They paid the minimum wage, then with like tips and commission i remember one december i made like just a thousand dollars in tips and commission alone okay all right

it was pretty nice so you made like 1500 bucks for the month then yeah i think it was closer to 2000 yeah okay wow but you're working all the time yes sir and um once i actually landed my ambulance job the emt gig i uh i started working like 60, 80 hours a week. Wow. Look at you. Very cool. So what made you get so fired up like this to get out of debt this fast? You went after it, man.

Yeah. So two and a half years ago, like I said, I graduated college. I was actually married at the time. Went through just struggle, bust, trying to find jobs, get work going. And then I had a job loss. I had actually worked for a fire department in Montana and lost the job. Moved back to Oregon at the time with my wife, and I landed the EMT gig. And then we still were having marriage problems, and we ended up going through separation and divorce just over a year ago.

I'm sorry. Wow. That's 23 years old. Wow. Yes, sir. So that hit, and I just went to work. I worked so much. I was called a hog at work.

They were like, you're hogging all the hours, Chris. Stop it. An hour hog. Yeah, that was. Love it. Very cool. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I mean, you paid off $32,000 while going through all of this upheaval in your life.

Yeah. I mean, the last year was kind of more of the learning lesson but i learned to be content um i mean just mainly like learning how to be content with what i had i i live i live with my parents they helped me out a lot and i had a really good family and they're just been awesome um i have a few friends that say i'm crazy, but they love me for it still. But then the budget was huge, and then just having this get-her-done attitude and just work hard and not even really caring what other people thought. That was another thing. How were you connected to us?

So when I was in high school, I took your class. Oh, yeah? And then didn't listen. Well, you listened more than you realized. It just took it a little while to bake. Yeah. So, um, and then when I was buried, uh, with my wife, we actually had taken your class again and then later we led a class.

Oh wow. Um, still went through the divorce and i went through your class again actually not too long ago just to finish out strong yeah so that's i've just been taking your classes been listening to your radio show and man yeah you were you were born on this stuff very cool very cool well congratulations sir thank you very proud of you you've been through a lot to be 24 and you did in the last year 21 000 of the 32 so that you that's when you you get the other side of the divorce and you just went to work like a crazy man and just put it all on the debt yep pretty much that's really what you did yeah well way to go very very proud

of you who were your biggest cheerleaders oh geez um i would probably say my parents were my biggest cheerleaders. Um, and like they, again, they allowed me to stay with them, um, pretty much rent free. The deal with the rent was like, I had to take my 6% match at, for my 401k at work. That was my rent. Um, they sound like financial peace graduates too. Yeah. So they, that's what they did with me um and then like they wouldn't actually let me actually pay for anything really um so they were yeah i kind of have a huge support and a cheer cheering you on yes sir while you're doing this well they're proud of you i'm proud of you

well done good job good job we got a copy copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Retire Inspired. And, as of today, we are giving debt-free callers or screamers the copy of the Everyday Millionaire books. That'll be sent to you in January in addition to the other book. Because you're going to be an everyday millionaire. You're on your way.

That's the next chapter in your story. Become wealthy and outrageously generous as you go along. You've got control of this. You know how to manage money now. And now the class is took. You'll never go back. Nope. And you won't even date a girl that's crazy for money.

You can't stand it. Nope. You can't stand it. You've changed everything. Yep. Well done. Good job. All right.

Chris from Salem, Oregon. $32,000 paid off in two and a half years, 21 of that in one year. What a story. Making all the way from 10 to 50, a bazillion part-time jobs and a get-her-done attitude. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

A debt-free scream! Yes! Yes! Woo-hoo! Boom! There we go, man. I love it. Woo-hoo!

That's how it's done. Doesn't get any better than that. Man, oh, man, oh, man. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money. You know, he was talking about it, and one of the things we hear all the time here on the air, and you hear me talk about it too, money and marriage. Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

If you want to make a commitment to focus on personal growth and living with intentionality this coming year, you need to watch one of our live streamed events. We've got three live streamed events this coming spring winter whatever you want to call it the first one will be money in marriage with rachel cruz and dr les parrot and that's february the 14th valentine's day make a date night of it entree leadership one day for you business owners and leaders, featuring myself and Christy Wright and Ken Coleman, Chris Hogan. February the 19th. And, of course, Smart Money with me and Anthony O'Neill is February the 20th.

And that will be live streamed the next day. So, February is your month. Marriage and money. Entree leadership. Smart money. all streamed. You know, we ought to do like a package. Won't you buy all three tickets? But we haven't yet.

I'll work on that when I get off there. Registration's open with early bird pricing right now. Go to DaveRamsey.com, call 888-22-PIECE, 888-227-3223, or DaveRamsey.com. All three live streams in February. Yeah, you ought to jump on that. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 90, 17. May the favor of the Lord our God rest on us and establish the work of our hands for us. Manoia Aurora said,

To achieve what 1% of the world's population has, you must be willing to do what only 1% dares to do. This is true. How much is left inside of us when we die? How many stories are left inside of us? How much music is left inside of us when we die. How many stories are left inside of us? How much music is left inside of us? How much potential is left inside of us? And too often because we just don't believe we can do it.

If we try this, it might not work. Have you ever said that? My friend Seth Godin says that anxiety and worry is accepting failure that hasn't even occurred yet. Isn't that crazy? We do that. We go ahead and just let something die before it was even born inside of our brain. Our potential is a bazillion times what any of us get out of this life. There's so much more that every one of us could do.

I love that quote. That's good. Reese is in New York City. Hi, Reese. How are you? Hi, Dave. Quick question for you from my FPU community in Hoboken, New Jersey. So would you consider somebody house poor or still house poor if their transportation costs are negligible, like for instance, less than 2% of your take-home pay and they were to subsidize the, I guess, subsidize would be the word, the additional,

you know, over 25% housing costs from what would have gone to a quote-unquote normal person's transportation cost. Well, I mean, you live in a very high real estate, expensive real estate market, obviously. And you live in an area with mass transit. And so you can get to work with very little cost or walk down the block in some cases, depending on what you're doing. So, but it's kind of, I mean, you can do whatever you want to do. Exactly. But what's happening here in terms of the flow of your logic is you're reaching, trying to just justify high rent. That's all you're reaching, trying to just justify high rent. That's all you're doing.

And so, meaning, you know, would it be okay if I work for a shirt factory and I get my shirts for free, and so I don't have any clothing budget much, would it be okay if I spent that extra money on my rent? Well, yeah, you can, but there's nothing tying these two things together, really. I mean, it's just you saved money on one front, you spent it on another. And so, I mean, you can do that, but what's our long-term goal here? Well, our long-term goal is get out of debt, build wealth, buy a property, you know, in that process. And so which of these things takes you towards the long-term goal? The problem you guys are facing in your group is, the realistic problem is, is that real estate's just stinking expensive.

Exactly. And the rents are just outrageous. And what you've realized is, just because you live in the New York City market or the LA market or the whatever, Denver, Chicago, Miami, name me an expensive real estate market, but yours is one of the most expensive, you don't get a pass on math. That dadgum one plus one still equals two thing all the time. So I would attempt to keep my rent down and save on the transportation costs because the less I spend on rent, the more I've got to move towards never being a renter again. And so you can do that if you want, but I don't want to just put that out there as a principle that says, okay, because you're in an expensive real estate market and you can save on this, then go ahead and do it. You can go ahead and do it. You can go ahead and do it.

But I'm always wanting to push back against the whole thing and just go, my goodness, how do we get to our goal the fastest? And it is by cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. I mean, we want to rent as cheap as we can rent. Renting is camping. You're camping until you get to buy the real house. You know? And so the more you spend on rent, the longer before you buy a house. And so I more you spend on rent, the longer before you buy a house.

And so I don't know. I'm always going to try to find a way to a different paradigm, a different door to try to get in this barn, a different way to get out the problem than just accept and go, well, we're just going to have to pay that. As soon as somebody says I have to do something, that's when I start trying to figure out a way that we can beat their game because I'm a contrarian by nature. So all of that to say, what you're laying out there is not a bad premise as a one-off.

If one of you decide to do that, but I'm not going to put that out as a principle that says, Dave Ramsey says, if you're in New York, do that. No, I'm not going to tell you to do that. Hey, thanks for the call. Yesina is with us in Dallas. Is it Yesenia? Is that correct? It's Yesenia.

Thank you so much, Dave, for taking my call. Sure. How are you? How can I help? Hi. So my husband has over $75,000 in debt from a trade school which was closed down last year. And we have been deferring payments for the last two years. It's currently in a lawsuit.

We don't know if to start paying or not. It's accumulating interest. We're not even 100% sure. There are several laws on the books. Is this a Sally Mae student loan or a private student loan? It's a private school loan. Owed to them? Oh, no, no, no.

I take that back. No, no, no. It's not private. No. Okay. All right. So it's a Sally May loan or it's just a bank loan? Okay.

If the trade school has been closed down or has gone broke, the debt goes away. That's the law. Now, okay, now he actually received his degree, but he hasn't found a good, he's not using his degree at the moment. So what does it matter that his old school closed down if he got his degree? Say that one more time, I'm sorry. What does it matter to you that they closed down if he got his degree? Say that one more time. Why does it matter to you that they closed down if he got his degree? Well.

He got his degree. What's his degree in? I know, but he didn't receive the education that he needed. He's not working in the field that he studied for. What did he learn? He's not competent in the field that he, you know, that he studied for. What did he learn? He's not competent in that field? Well, he got his degree for cybersecurity. Currently, he's in help desk.

Yeah. My question is, does he know what he's doing on cybersecurity or not? No. No, he does not. Oh, okay. So his degree is worthless. It's worthless, yes. Because he got no knowledge.

Correct. And you owe $73,000.. It's worthless, yes. Because he got no knowledge. Correct. And you owe $73,000. $75,000, yes. I would contact an attorney. Okay. And there are some provisions that when a school goes broke while you're there, that the debt is forgiven. There's some federal laws on the books regarding that.

It has some caveats to it and so forth, and you need to learn about those. That doesn't apply here because he's graduated. But I think you make a case that they were incompetent and that the loans were taken out on a fraudulent basis for that reason because I'm sure the people making these loans were tied into the school. Yes. I mean, they're sitting there loans were tied into the school. Yes. I mean, they're sitting there at the desk in the school, right? Yes.

So I would contact an attorney and see if there's any legal outs that you have here. Because basically what you're telling me is you got ripped off. That you were told he was going to be taught something and he really wasn't learning anything. And, you know, it's hard to believe. Why did he keep going if he wasn't learning anything? You know, I mean, at some point you've got to go, I really don't know what the crap I'm doing, and I'll keep paying for this. You should have pulled the plug on it long ago. That's the other thing that's going on here.

So, hey, good question. Thank you for joining us. Tommy is on Facebook and says, I'm contemplating signing up for State Farm's return of premium policy that allows you to receive your money back after 30 years, assuming you live that long. It costs more per month, obviously, but it seems too good to be true. It's not too good to be true, Tommy.

It's a ripoff. Never do return of premium policies that you pay more for, and you always pay more for them. If you take the amount more that you're paying and put that in a mutual fund, you would get all the cost of your policy back at the end of the 30 years 100% of the time. That's how they're doing it. Whether you die or not, by the way, the money is there. And with the return on premium, you only get it back if you don't die.

It's a complete insurance gimmick. It's crap. So don't do that. No, go to Zander Insurance, zanderinsurance.com, buy good term life insurance, 15 to 20-year level term, and always avoid return of premium. That's the deal. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.

We'll be back before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, guys, this is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm excited to announce that we're now carrying on 600 radio stations across the country. To find one near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.