The Ramsey Show - App - Control the Only Thing You Can Control. . . You (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramseysey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author host of the ken coleman show where he helps folks with their personal growth so their career is maximized he's my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225. Vince is with us in Phoenix. Hi, Vince. How are you? Hey, how's it going, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'd just like to start off with giving glory to God. Literally five minutes before I called, I wrote down on a piece of paper and I said, I have a net worth of negative 110,000. And right below that I put, I will become a baby steps millionaire.

So, um, I, my question is, um, I know you tell us, uh, you won't tell us to file bankruptcy, but my question I guess would be, is am I bankrupt? Um, I have about $32,000 in credit card debt. Um, I have, I owe about $60,000 on my truck. I had a travel trailer that I was living in, um, that got repossessed. And at the time I owed 36,000 on that. So I kind of put in there that I'll be upside down 10 to 15 000 maybe more um i owe about 13 000 in taxes and let's see i think that's it what do you make yeah um this year i should make about 50 to 60 what do you do the business back in? I started a business back in 2021. I built shade structures.

First year, I netted about 75. Second year, it was so 2022, about 85. 2023, 60. And then 2024, I'm at 30 so far. You build what? I build shade structures like Ramadas, Pergolas. I do carpentry work as well. Okay, why the drop in income? I build shade structures like Ramadas, Pergolas. I do carpentry work as well. Okay.

Why the drop in income? I guess just the market. I mean, it's just slowed down. I do great work. I get good reviews. I don't advertise much. I've always struggled with that. I kind of just worked off of Facebook, essentially.

So did your word of mouth leads just slowly trickle down? Yes. Yeah, that has a lot to do. That's consistent with what we saw with people, consumer spending on home improvement projects and stuff like that coming out of the pandemic. So that's not inconsistent. But as a carpenter, you should have more work than you can actually get as a carpenter. Yeah, and I would say it's just the effort that I put in as far as like I said, in advertising or any of that. I just, I really, my focus has really gone down, I guess you could say.

I've just struggled all the time. In Phoenix, Arizona, you can make $90,000 to $100,000 as a carpenter going to work for somebody. Yeah. Yeah. I was working at a fabrication shop. I understand. I understand.

I wanted to work for myself. I want you to work for yourself, too, but I don't want you to be bankrupt. So we can't have these two things competing with each other. You're not getting enough income in, and we need to get some income coming in. I don't care where it comes from. It would suit me fine if you got 42 decks to build in the next two weeks and took off and you made $100,000 working for yourself. That's fine.

I don't care where you get it, but you're going to have to get it. Yes. Your problem is an income problem yes and i i'm sorry like i said i have all the tools i'm starting to detail because there's a super low cost and startup a mobile detailing um something i'm passionate about as well so i'm getting ready to start that here in the next couple weeks like i said i'm just gathering the stuff that i need to buy i i've looked up and done a lot of research and that kind of stuff and a few people that i know in the market vince you're broke and you're and you're and we're telling you you got to get after it with one of the most sought after trades in america right now you can go look this

up it's all over the internet there's a shortage of carpenters and you're in one of the hottest markets in america yeah don't buy a pressure washer go get your carpentry work yeah like do the pressure washing down the line but right now you need money go you know yeah go call every customer you've had and ask them for a referral okay by by the weekend and then and expand and quit trying to be such a freaking artist with the copalism let's go build some stuff i don't care what it is swing a hammer drive a nail yeah that somebody pays you to do and make some money if you were making 100k you wouldn't have called me exactly okay this is an income problem it's not a debt problem so it's not a bankruptcy problem and if you can't afford the truck sell the truck but by the way if you file bankruptcy you lose

the truck so and the truck is ridiculous in this situation you owe way too much on this truck so you probably do need to sell the truck you probably need to sell it anyway and just move down and truck you had it to pull the travel trailer they got repoed right yeah yeah and further I was using it for my fly bed trailer that I do for business but a lesser truck will pull a flatbed yes okay you own the flatbed too yes I on the flatbed. What's it worth? Probably about $3,000. Okay, then we can keep it. Is it a five?

Is it a gooseneck or a regular trailer? No, no, it's just a bumper pull-up and 18-foot. Okay, good. That's keepable in almost any pickup and pull-up. Agreed? Agreed. Yeah, so it doesn't require a $60,000 truck to pull that thing. So it maybe did to pull the travel trailer, but that's a different thing.

That's all gone now. So, okay, the repo can be settled when and if they call you for pennies on the dollar, but I need you to have about $5,000 or $10,000 ready for when they call you so you can offer them a settlement in full and they'll take it. If they ever call you even, they might not. And I need you to clean up your stink of taxes. You don't want the IRS in your life, and you need to cut up your credit cards and sell your truck and move down and get your income up.

And that's your solution, and that's how you become a Baby Steps millionaire. Okay. The credit cards, I'm already in default on quite a few of them. Yeah, okay. Cut them up. Okay, all right. No problem there. They're no blessing.

They're already done. Yeah, they're no blessing. Plastic surgery is due in your life, my man. And chop them up so okay all right no no problem there they're no blessing already done yeah they're no blessing plastic surgery is due in your life my man and i chop them up and let's make a you know start doing a written budget but the thing is this you're by yourself you're a solo panoor you are a great carpenter you suck at marketing and so this feels out of control to you where ken and i are sitting on the outside we see your income potential to be much larger than you feel like it is in your emotions because you're by yourself and there's nobody around you saying dude you got this and we're telling you dude you got this so hypothetically you could do all of the work you're doing right now as a side job and work a day job as a carpenter in about 20 minutes yep

and you get your income up over six figures doing that and get this mess cleaned up get the truck moved down and then build you out learn start learning some marketing stuff start learning how to run a business not just be a carpenter and you can build your side business back up to a full-time down and then build you out, start learning some marketing stuff, start learning how to run a business, not just be a carpenter. And you can build your side business back up to a full-time gig again. And that's probably what I would do in your shoes. Because I just think you're, I'm with Ken. I think you're in an ideal situation in terms of your career.

I mean, you didn't call me up with a sociology degree. If I was in Phoenix right now, Dave, I would make him drive me to construction sites all over the city where they're building homes. And I'd say, you got a clean t-shirt. All right. No, your jeans look sharp. All right. Get the tool belt on and walk up and say, where's the foreman? And say, I'm a carpenter. I'm ready to go. You might be surprised within about two hours, you'd probably be working if not with a gig that's how low the shortage is right now on carpenters that's a fact that's not my opinion yep and by the way it's summer in phoenix yeah that's true too thank you for joining us america buying a house in this market is crazy.

Selling a house in this market is crazy. It's wild out there, y'all. You need to have a pro in your corner if you're going to be moving property right now. And I do recommend you buy a house right now. It's a great time. I do recommend you sell a house right now. It's a great time. If you want a pro in your corner that we recommend, we have Ramsey-trusted, endorsed local providers that are real estate agents that we have vetted that are high performance.

They have not just got their license last week and never sold a house before. They do 30 to 300 transactions a year. They're on top of their game. They're the best of the best. They're Ramsey-trusted. You can find out who's Ramsey-trusted in your area for free at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. James is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, James.

How are you? Good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? So I want to say thank you so much for taking my call, and I appreciate what you and Mr. Coleman, Mr. Kim, what everybody does. It really is a blessing, so I appreciate that.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. My question is, I guess, kind of related to the previous caller that you spoke with, but I'm kind of at a point where we've been working on baby step number two. We've got all of our credit card debt paid off. We're done with it. We were making headway. I lost my job back in April.

So I'm having to, luckily, Lord blessed me with another job. But it took about a month and a half, and so it's kind of set us back. But my question is, long story short, what can I do to help my family advance my career? Because I feel stagnant, and the job that I just got was a lateral move. I wanted to advance my career and move up, but it just seems like most companies right now just want me in a lateral position. All right, so let's start with where you want to eventually go. So we're going to advance to what? What's the dream? Operations manager. Of what? I'm a project manager of a residential construction company. Okay. An operations manager does what in that role?

Well, I guess more or less bringing in business, you know, hiring, keeping business, keeping customers happy. Sure. I guess, you know, making sure the day-to-day is, you know, rolling smoothly. All right. And then, forgive me for my ignorance, operation manager's at one, two, three steps above where you are now. What does that look like? Oh, it's one step. One step. Okay. The reason I asked you to describe the role of operations manager where you want to be is because that list, how you described that to me, with each of those duties that you listed out, there is a skill set. There's skill, so I'm going to have to learn the

skill. And there's also experience that you're going to need to get, right, to step into that or at least get to the point where they say, okay, James, you are ready, you are qualified. And so understanding what you need to add to your tool belt is really vital. That's why I went through that list. And so now is the time to begin to say, how can I go about getting that skill where I am? So in other words, I've got to look at the next and figure out what it's going to take to get there, but then don't miss this vital thing. And that is you got to win in the now, you know, uh, we, we all want to move up to a certain point and, um, you're going to have to have some patience and you're going to have to earn your way up to that spot. And so the way you

do that is, uh, I, uh, this is a three-step process that'll guarantee that you will get promoted. If in fact you're in a company that has a track record of promoting. Number one, you got to know your role. That's absolute clarity on what your leader wants from you right now. You must crush the now by knowing exactly what you're supposed to do now. Number two, you need to have an attitude of, you know what, not down in the dumps. I need to be grateful that after I got laid off, I stepped into another role and it's taking care of me. It's stabilizing me in the now. Third, I'm going to go above and beyond. Whatever they tell you, James, is what we want from you. You find three or four or five or 10 ways to go above and beyond what they've asked you to do. And then you're looking at the next going,

how do I get that experience? What would that skill set look like? How would I get it as a cert? Is it, you know, asking to do a little extra work, pay it forward a little bit? Hey, can I help out? This is the idea, James, because you become so good, they can't ignore you. That's your theme. How many of those skills that you need for operations manager can you work on while you're being a project manager? How many of them overlap? That was part of the – I don't know how. That's the reason. I mean, I'm not a very intelligent fellow, but I try to find out and find ways, and that was one of the reasons why I wanted to go.

I mean, if you list out, okay, these are the five things an operations manager does. How many of those does a project manager do? Probably some, okay? You're working with customers. So, I mean, you're running a particular job. The operations manager is running all the jobs. So, that's very similar, okay? And in both cases, you're working with customers. You probably have some interface with customers customers just like an ops manager does and so you keep thinking about the different ways you know you're how how much of what you're doing is a miniature version of an ops manager that you can use to to sharpen those particular skills and then demonstrate that either for the next person that another place is looking for an ops manager or the next time they hire an ops manager at the place you're at today. That's what I'm looking for. But I think

you need to clearly define what it is exactly that is needed that you don't have to move up into that and then go get it. That right and um my friend henry cloud says figure out what your desired future is well we did that you have a desired future being ops manager and then ask yourself what must be true that is not true today to make that desired future of mine happen what must be true and you go okay there's these six things i've got to do these four things i've got to do and in order for this to become in order for this to come true and you go okay there's these six things i've got to do these four things i've got to do and in order for this to become in order for this to come true and then then you start putting a timeline and a budget to what it's going to cost to get those five or six things and cause this to happen i think you're in great shape you're going to get there yeah you're going to get there

nate is with us in el paso texas hi nate welcome to the ramsey show hi thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I have about $36,000 in debt. And I heard you take a caller the other day, and you were talking about the difference between the snowball and avalanche methods. And you mentioned that you pretty much will always recommend the snowball because the MAPS supports that one over the avalanche. But the several different callers that I heard that that was your recommendation, they had interest rates for the majority of their debt that were in the general

range of like six to ten. You missed the point of all those calls. Interest rate doesn't matter. how much debt do you have 36,000 what do you mean about 75 K okay and what's the 36,000 on I have two car loans one credit card and some medical bills bills, and then a handful, a small handful that I owe to individual people. How much are the car loans? One of them is for $9,000. The other one is about $7,000.

Okay. All right. So that's $16,000 of your $36,000. Then you've got $20,000 more. How much of that's medical bills? Eight. Okay. So you've got 20 more. How much of that's medical bills? Eight. Okay, so you've got 12 in credit card debt. I have six in credit card debt,

and the remainder is to individual people. So I rest my case. It's irrelevant. It's only $6,000. If the interest rate was 100%, it wouldn't matter because it doesn't amount to any money. Okay. The actual dollars, the $6,000 worth multiplied by the interest rate,

creates is not much. So you don't have an interest rate problem, dude. You don't have a math problem. If you were doing all this math, you wouldn't be here. So math is not your problem. You guys cutting your budget to nothing, taking six jobs and attacking this is your problem. Listing your debts smallest to largest,

which, by the way, when you do that, will get rid of your credit cards first anyway. So the first order of business is going to be pay off the credit cards, right? Yeah. You don't have a 20% interest rate on those cars, do you? Both car loans and the credit card are all at 22%.

Oh, you need to sell the cars. Man, quit buying. God, what are you doing? How do you get screwed like that on a car? 22% on a car? Good God. Yeah, sell the car and get you a hoopty. 20 minutes from now.

That's just, that's nuts. What are you saying, Dave? You didn't like that car purchase? Is that what I'm hearing you say? 22% for a, I'd be riding a bicycle. Oh, I know. Or a donkey. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Open phones here at 888-825-5225. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Malik is with us. Hey, Malik, what's up? What's up, Dave?ave ken so nice to meet both of you it's been a long time i've been following you so good to be here well so good to have you where do you live warrenton virginia close to dc i know where that is very cool nice welcome to nashville good to have you how much debt have you paid off glad to be back i paid off 78,000 in debt all right cool how long did that take took about 26 months good for you and your range of income during that time the start of the 26 months it was 49,000

and by the end of it I was making well over 70k cool what do you do I'm a worship pastor full-time that's what I do that's what the start of it was and i still am a full-time worship pastor i also did some side gigs a lot of piano lessons voice lessons any kind of lessons that i know how to do i was teaching nice that's a good use of your talent well done there we go and uh i'm also now a dog sitter on the side as well but worship is the thing. There you go, man. Well done. Very cool. So what happened two years and some change ago that woke Malik up? Tell us your story. Okay.

I was about 25 years old, and the church that I work at, we get paid once a month. And by day 17, I had no more money left because I had financed myself into a corner. I had a bunch of credit card debt, a bunch of car debt, student loan debt, and I also didn't know how to manage my money. So by the time, I just got sick and tired of being paycheck to paycheck, so I had to figure out how to get out of debt basically, how to make more margin in my income. So I typed in how to get rich on YouTube and I found your videos. Um, so I've started following them, did the zero base budget, switched to a cheaper gym, switched over to a church parsonage, um, anything I could do

to create more margin that way I did got better at grocery shopping and then after that all that money principal payments on the debt snowball i got into the freelance thing so i started making more money on top of that and then it just happened so so quick very cool very cool good for you man yep yep good for you so you weren't getting after it. It was probably too intense, but we're done. Hey, we're out of here. We're out of here. Check it off. 26 months of my life and no more debt ever again.

Ever again. Ever again. I love it. So really your reason was, I just don't want to be in this stress. I can't make it. I can't make ends meet. I've got to do something different. What I'm doing is not working.

It wasn't working. A healthy level of disgust yeah it took a long time um for about four years i was terrible with money didn't know that i was terrible with money um but the principles the baby steps they they really saved me my finances um now we're having a good time on a practical level how would you tell the audience leading worship feels now that you're debt-free? Well, ironically enough, like you were supposed to lead from a place of freedom and liberation, all of those things. And when you are enslaved by your situation, the situation that I put myself into, there's always something in the back of your brain

before and after your rehearsals, before and after your meetings with the congregants, before and after your worship sets that feels like a tad hypocritical, I suppose. But now you can walk around a little lighter. So it's been, I'd like to think my job performance is a little better that a lot better than it was well your spirit's back i guarantee yeah i'm having a good time yeah i mean i don't know i don't know that you were necessarily doing a bad job before but the uh the lightness with which you approach it the heaviness is gone right yeah and so um almost sounds like a worship song yeah very good we can write one

i bet well we couldn't but you might yeah i was gonna say we could dave and i we will listen the reason we're in talk radio all right so hey man congratulations what was the one dad that was driving you nuts and you're like when that one went you went yeah you're gone finally the interest on the car um it it didn't move the interest was so high that the principal it took me about a year and a half to realize that there was no dent being made by just the monthly payments alone so so you had a rip-off car payment yeah like those were it was i don't remember the interest rate but it seemed like it didn't move at all so like just having no car payment i don't i drive a very modest car 2011 honda accord but the fact that i never have to pay a car payment

ever again it's it's the best feeling yeah yeah that a different feeling. They drive different when they're not pulling a payment book. Yeah, honestly. Yeah, that's very cool. Who was encouraging you? I found the program through a church in Orlando, Florida. They did it, and I just so happened to be visiting on one of their small group nights. So that was where the exposure started, Hope Church in Orlando, Florida. But me and my best friend, he's right here.

We did Baby Step 2 for the longest time together. So anytime I've – I never wanted to give up, but anytime it was getting ghetto, so to speak, we really kept each other accountable. So I owe him and a lot of other people back in Virginia a lot of thanks for listening to me yap about it all the time. Well, congrats. Way to go. Did you have people making fun of you or just kind of rolling their eyes?

Yeah, a lot of people did not understand it. They didn't understand the fact, the magnitude, the urgency that I had for it. But for me, it was kind of, I didn't have enough margin i didn't have enough of an income to not get out of debt um a lot of my friends make a lot of money so they can they can kind of do whatever they want but i needed that margin and it was getting out of all those consumer debts and i think everyone should live that way but um yeah a lot of people did not understand why i was doing what i was doing and at this point i don't care yeah i hear you so there's a person out there that's right where

you were 30 months ago two and a half years ago and um they got a paycheck and it just didn't make it they got too much month left at the end of the money talk to them reword that one more time well if they uh there's a person out there right where you were 30 months ago it's the 17th of the month what is today the 18th of the month and they're out of money they have too much month left at the end of the money the paycheck's gone what happened to you right yeah and you were freaked out and scared and stress and your heart rate changes and you got to do something about it talk to that person we're going to start by selling a lot of stuff in your house that's going to get you to your next paycheck um and then we're going to just make some life decisions because if they're anything like me they were living way way way above their means um so we're going to stop the the auto wash um subscription that you had we're going to stop

the netflix we're going to stop all of it and we're going to just start tackling it one dead at a time um just being very disciplined um because we have no other choice um there there's so much at hand when it comes to our finances a lot of kingdom impact could be made if we had more margin so um many things are on the balance when it comes to our personal finance so um just take it very very serious get someone in your corner um and day 17 day 18 so on and so forth until your next paycheck um you just got to have that locked in mentality that you are going to make a difference yeah you reach your point you say never again never again never again i'm never going to be like this i'm never going to feel like this again

i'm putting all of this in the rearview mirror i am done i'm walking out of this valley absolutely well done sir proud of you yep excellent job Yep. Excellent job, hero. Very, very cool. Oddly enough, the numbers are very similar to the guy who just called and wanted some kind of a trick to get out of debt. That's exactly right. And he had a high interest rate car debt and high interest rate credit cards, and he had less debt than this guy had, than Malik had. So way to go, Malik.

Good job. All right, Malik from Virginia. $78,000 paid off in 26 months, making $49,000 to $70,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah!

This is how it's done. Yes, yes, yes. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Joshua 1.8. Keep this book of the law always on your lips. Meditate on it day and night so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. Brian Tracy said, failure is a prerequisite for great success. If you want to succeed faster, double your rate of failure.

Well, there you go. That's how that's done. Just learning that Bob Newhart passed away, so sad. So many classic things he did as a comedian. The old Bob Newhart show is where Daryl and his other brother daryl came from yes and uh you may not remember anything else but you remember that right and he did a great comedy bit on counseling from the bob newhart too where anything someone came in to be counseled on he would just listen to him for a few minutes and then he would yell, stop it!

Just stop it! That was his whole counseling. It was great. I kind of feel like him some days. Yeah, I think that's effective. Just stop it! Quit! It's effective sometimes.

Don't do that anymore! Yeah, that's it. It was great, but rest in peace, Bob. He gave us a lot of joy and a lot of laughs over the years. Pretty incredible. Anna is in Toronto. Hi, Anna. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Anna. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. I'm excited to talk to you guys. You too. How can we help? Well, Dave, you've helped me and my husband a lot with our finances. I really appreciate that. I'm calling mostly today for some career advice. So I've been waiting to hear Ken Coleman's voice, and I heard it today,

so I thought I would give you guys a call. It's such a soothing voice. My wife and kids would disagree with, thank you, Dave. Anna, what's going on? Well, I've been a teacher probably about 23 years now, and I hesitate to say I'm burnt out because I still like the work of teaching, but I am not liking my day-to-day job. And I have done quite a bit of changing already within the system. So I don't know if it's just a public school thing, but I just would like to find other jobs that I could do. I know I'm sure there are a lot with the skills that I have, but I just would like to find other jobs that I could do. I know I'm sure there are a lot with the skills that I have, but I'm also hoping to find something that has comparable pay. Teachers in Canada actually make decent money compared to... So I make $107.

Wow. Okay, let's start right where you led us to, which is skills. I want you to tell us the top skills that you have acquired in your 23 years of teaching. Probably listening. I've always been really good at listening. I like finding out what problems exist, I guess, for kids particularly, and figuring out, you know, how to help them have those light bulb moments that I'm really good at, and I enjoy that. Just creative problem solving, I like that too. And I just, I find a lot of joy being around kids, but I'm not finding a lot of joy in my work. Which is what? Because my guess is this is not

what you're doing. It's where you're doing it. My guess is, and I've counseled so many teachers here in the U.S. and in Canada, the environment is just getting worse and worse and worse. And so if the environment were different, you would enjoy the actual engaging of instructing the children, yes or no? Yes, yeah. So let's real quick list out a couple of things that just come right to the top of your mind you enjoy most, the stuff that gives you the most joy when you're actually teaching. I think just seeing the engagement and the enthusiasm and finding creative ways to help the kids express things that they want to share, those things for sure. I just find there's so much interruption

and so much behavior and so much craziness that it's like you never get to enjoy that stuff anymore. Let me list out for you very quickly what I wrote down as I listened to you. I asked you the top skills, and I wrote down listening, asking questions, discernment, critical thinking, creative problem solving. And then I wrote down, I asked you, what do you enjoy most about teaching? It was the engagement. It was the progress. In other words, you love seeing light bulb moments when people get it that's what gives you the juice correct yeah all right so here's the deal so what we have to do is

is you have to stop thinking about the negative environment what you have to focus on is that little exercise we just went through and so now we've created a job description. So where in Canada, in the marketplace, can you use the skill set of communication, of instruction, and then actually engage with people who want to be there to learn. So let me tell you where I start to ideate, okay? And I'm not in any way limiting you to this, but I want you to understand the process. I immediately start thinking corporate training, HR training. That's what my husband said to me. Well, you and your husband, your husband's a smart guy. So you know why? That's right.

Listen, any kind of role where you are instructing, you walk in day one, Anna, with experience and skill. And listen, if you can teach a child, my goodness, you can revolutionize the life of an adult who actually wants to learn, right? So I would begin to look throughout the marketplace. This is an instructive role, whether it's called training. I don't care about job title. You must look at the job description, and it must include what you enjoy, which is I want to be able to impart knowledge to people and see the light bulb of learning and progress as the result.

And it's that simple. And now we've got to start looking at the comparative salary though. Okay. So I can- Yeah, and that's where I'm struggling too. That's okay. We got to look first. We've got to see what's out there and we've got to see, okay, what would the path be? And so there's four qualifying questions I wrote about in Paycheck to Purpose. What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? How much is that going to cost? How long will it take? If you just answer those four questions, Anna, this feeling right now that

you have of frustration and intimidation, it's because of the unknown. Those four questions, what do I need to learn? What do I need to do? So one is the education or certification or some type of skill. I got to acquire it. And then experience is what I need to do. Then how much is that going to cost me? That's money and time. And then how long is all this going to take? And what happens is, Anna, when we answer those four questions, you're so good at this of process, you're going to see a plan develop. And all of a sudden, it's not intimidating. You're going're going to say wow i can absolutely stroll into something else let me uh tell you where i've seen some teachers land what we call uh in marketing we call it technical sales where the sale involves teaching

the buyer about the product or the service and how to do it. An example of that would be medical device sales. That's a great point. So if you're installing a hip, if you're installing a knee, if you're installing a heart valve, if you're installing whatever, these are technical things. You'd have to learn the technical stuff. But I know people that came in with a marketing degree and went and learned the technical part and they basically don't do a lot of quote unquote sales they basically are instructing uh surgeons sometimes in surgery

live uh that's an example of a technical sale another one would be something in the manufacturing world where you've got an engineering item. You know, you're selling a highly sophisticated piece of equipment or whatever. But, I mean, anything that falls in that heading of technical sales, really good money in all of that. That's exactly right. And it always involves instruction. And it sounds like it's a sales job, but it's not really. Not at all.

Not at all. You're exactly right, Dave. It is the idea of I'm going to share knowledge with you that is going to help you progress. And that is at the heart of every teacher. They want to see their students learn something so that they can progress. They love progress. They love pouring into somebody. You see mental traction. You do. It's why, by the way, that you for years have said, when we advise our audience to go sit with a smart investor pro or any of our trusted services, do they have – The heart of a teacher. And why?

Tell people why that matters. Well, because the person has to learn to be a good investor. That's right. They can't be doing what somebody else says. Yeah. Good question. Good question, Anna. You're going to be great. You're going to be great at the next stage.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Thank you. We'll see you next time.