The Ramsey Show - App - Credit Card Collectors Are SCUM! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 21, 2020

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Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumped, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today, author of the best-selling book, Redefining Anxiety. So we're taking your questions about family, about anxiety, about any issues you might have, including your money. Open phones at

888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Ben is in Nashville. Hi, Ben. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Mr. Ramsey. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

I've been through Financial Peace University, and I learned a lot through that, and I started paying off some debt. Basically, I've made some bad decisions here in the last five months and I don't want to try to validate it with excuses. So I'll just tell you where I'm at. I make about $95,000 a year. It's in an unstable market in construction management. So I'm not really guaranteed that job two months from now, but that's what I've made in the last year. And I've got $19,000 in student loans and an $83,000 mortgage, and that's all my debt. And then this summer I decided to go buy a $69,000 vehicle, and I'm a single man, 36 years old. And, um, in that time I met the woman of my dreams in the last three months that has, she listens to Dave Ramsey as well. So it blew my mind. And I'm just like, what have I done? Uh, I had a mentor that I told, um, what I was doing and buying a

vehicle. And obviously I said, I know this is not a smart decision. It's almost as much as my mortgage. I said, but I can afford the payments right now. I'm good. So that's my situation. I know I've made some mistakes and I'm coming to you now because since I've met her, I kind of want to get out from the debt even faster. And I don't know if you would recommend maybe just selling this vehicle and getting out from under it, paying off what I'm going to lose on selling it, and move on. So what did your mentor say when you told him you were going to buy a $69,000 truck? Well, I didn't tell him until after it was done.

He just saw it in the parking lot and uh i could see his eyes kind of raised you know like oh okay well you know it was almost that secondhand embarrassment that i could feel through him um that's fair so yeah what happened that that hit that domino that made you go by that does something happen in your life you get tired you get burnt out, you're exhausted. What happened? Well, if I look back, yeah, I was in a long relationship, about nine years, and I just got out of that in March.

And I bought this vehicle about three months ago, thinking, hey, I have very little debt. My nieces and nephew were two and a half hours, three hours away, and now they've moved within 30 minutes. And they're being homeschooled, and I'd like to be near them. So I was like, you know, let's get a vehicle that can get the whole family involved, including those three kids and, you know, mom and dad too. Now, for $69,000, they all ought to be able to live in it. Yeah, I agree. Okay. All okay all right well here's the thing how old are you 36 you said that earlier i'm sorry um i have done so many stupid things in my life

that have cost me so much money and embarrassment and shame and when i do something stupid i call it stupid tax that i have to pay and part of the stupid tax is money and part of it is just i look in the mirror and i go you're a doofus and i kind of hear that's what you're doing right now am i missing something no it sums it up yeah after meeting her i realized that no you knew it all along she just made you admit it you knew it when you drove it off the lot you were just holding your nose hoping the smell wasn't gonna go away you knew it you knew it because you had been trained by us you've been through financial peace university you knew it you knew when you called me what i was going to say

you hid it from your mentor that's big, you made it into a secret. That's how you really knew. Yeah, you knew. You knew all along. So here's the thing. Anytime I do, and I'm not picking on you because I've done dumber things. I've done $690,000 stupid things. You're only $69,000.

You'll survive this. But the trick is not what to do with this. The trick is to do enough of an autopsy on your psyche and on yourself to where you freaking never do this again. That's a big deal. Right. Because it's a pattern. And if you don't change the pattern, you're screwed. Because if I engage in a pattern of stupidity, that then makes me called stupid.

And, you know, you've got to no longer do that. So to be worthy of this girl is the noble calling inside of your heart. You want to be a wise young gentleman, not the doofus that you saw in the mirror after you bought the truck. But if she dumps you in three months, it's still the right thing to not have bought a $60,000 truck. But the thing, the motivation is very noble. Right. And that can cause you to go, I'm going to break this pattern. When I went broke, the motivation was noble.

I said, I am never going to be here again. I'm never going to be in a situation where I can't feed my kids again. I'm embarrassed. My stupidity has caused my family to have the lights cut off the water cut off my wife is ready to leave i because of my stupidity i have to stop the stupid and i had to do a csi on why i did the things i did that set me up for the fall and i had to never do them again so that's what's important. The truck is just the symptom. Does that make sense, Ben?

It does. So if you dig this out, and this is like the dumbest last thing you ever do in this category, that's a huge win. If you just sell the truck and you don't dig it out, and you go back next time there's something going on, and you go buy a boat, and you go, well, I just wanted to get a boat, and I just thought, well, I can afford can afford the payments you know the same thing you did last time then you're going to just replicate this and you're going to be what's known as normal in america and you just don't be normal man normal sucks that's why you called us so i'm not spanking you

i'm going with you on this i'm saying the answer to your question is not about the truck the answer this question is down inside of you you fix that and then you already know you got to sell the truck the truck was just off the chain it's got to go but that's a side issue of course the truck's got to go it's dadgum almost as much as you make in a year of course the truck has to go it was a stupid idea to start with of course the truck has to go you don't rationalize I'm going to visit people three hours away and spend $80,000 to do that. You go rent a car. You go rent a house over there. Cheaper than that.

You say you can rent a house for five to ten years and Uber over there. Exactly. You can charter a jet cheaper than this and go see them twice a year. There's a lot of stuff you can do. So you can't use it. You've got to go, okay, that didn't work. That didn't work. That didn't work.

I knew Dave wasn't going to be happy with this. I knew my mentor wasn't going to be happy with this. Is it because it affected Dave or my mentor? No, it's because they love me and they want good things for me, and this wasn't good for me. And I've got to not do stuff that's not good for me anymore and know why I'm doing it and break that cycle and sell the truck. Let this be the last one, brother.

I do a lot of stupid stuff. I just try to not do the same stupid stuff over again. And then if you don't do that long enough, eventually they call you wise. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This year has been unpredictable. Well, that's an understatement. But make this Christmas and New Year's your time to save money and give your loved ones gifts that will teach them how to make a plan for their money and their future. Our famous $10 sale is ending soon.

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And they almost always say communication and being on the same page. And that's because a budget puts you in control of every dollar that you bring in every month. You tell it where to go instead of wondering where it went. When you start a Ramsey Plus membership, you follow a step-by-step plan that we give you where you budget, you learn how to manage money the right way, and you get fired up as you make progress towards your debt-free, wealth-building, outrageously generous giving journey. And that's why we include EveryDollar, the best budgeting tool in the world, in your Ramsey Plus membership. You get custom reports on your spending habits,

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That's 33789. Text BEGIN to 33789. So Zach Bennett here at Ramsey Solutions is on our radio and video team. One of our producers around here has been with us for a decade plus. He does all the video on the John Deloney Show, too. He'svant he's awesome yeah so he sends me the statistics here he stats he says i'm a nerd like you dave thanks zach 247 debt-free screams on the air this year this is a slow year because of covid uh the lobby was shut down here and we spent a month and a half not doing debt-free screams, just taking calls from people that were struggling with getting laid off

and all the craziness with the lockdown back in the spring. So debt-free screams were suspended for a little while, so it's an unusually low year. Usually, Kelly, they're about $45 million to $50 million a year, roughly. Is that about right? That's about right. And debt-free screams are total for the year of the people doing the screaming. This year, it's going to be a little less. It's going to be about $28 million.

$184 in the lobby, $63 on the phone. Heavy lobby screams, though. Hmm. Go figure. And average debt paid off per caller. This is interesting. This is numbers I haven't seen before. Take the average per debt-free screamer.

It was $114,000. Average time that they took to pay off their debt, 30.14 months. We had 18 Ramsey team members who did debt-free screams, totaling $1.4 million. That's cool. 41 states and two Canadian provinces were represented in the debt-free screamers. California, 18, Florida, 17, Texas, 16, Illinois, 14, Indiana, 13, Ohio, 12, Pennsylvania, 11, and Tennessee, 10.

That's the top 10 of the 167. Was it 167? What did I say it was? Where did it go? A 247. Yeah, okay. And he goes month by month through the whole thing. And, of course, we see the drop-off there in April when there was almost no debt-free scrims.

And that dropped us behind our averages. But that's interesting, 114 over 30 months all over the United States and 114,000 average. So that kind of gives you guys that are working on your debt snowball some encouragement to get through it. And we have this little stage here, the debt-free stage. It's waiting on you. Two and a half years.

So over 30 years, Dave, what has the secret been? Somebody gets fired up, they take off sprinting, them and their husband take off sprinting through the woods like a good gazelle three months in. What's the shot in the arm that's going to go two and a half? Two and a half years is a long time, and I'm thinking through it like fixing your marriage, fixing your relationship with your parents.

I'm thinking it like weight loss. I know the stats there. Two and a half years is a season that's a long time the motivation shifts on the ones that make it okay when people start out they start all of us do this me included you included we start out like a cold shower just screaming braveheart right a cold shower screaming braveheart you know i'm talking about get that on a t-shirt you know i'm talking about you just gotta run it's gonna grid up i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm just gonna run into this concrete block wall until it falls over that's right right and and that gets you started that sets a new groove in your brain it causes you to sell the car have a

garage sale sell so much stuff the kids are next stay out of restaurants you know take the extra job it causes you to do the stuff right to get moving and that will last 90 days some people can do it for nine months mine is about 90 days about three months very few people can do that for a year they're very very unusual it's a psychological disorder if you could do it i mean i mean it's just it's just the just the sheer raw emotion the guttural scream right but what happens is as they start to win they start to believe and it's not just this sheer desperation sheer anger sheer disgust raw emotion that's driving them now it starts to be hope hope that i'm really going to get out. And when you start to believe, then you start to look past the debt and go, I'm going to change my family tree. I'm doing this for these babies I'm looking at.

And that's a different kind of emotion. That's not a screaming, braveheart emotion. That comes deep from within. That's the kind of emotion you die for. That's right. That's the kind of honor, nobility,'s right that's the kind of honor nobility dignity change my family tree higher calling i want to be generous like i've never been before and the emotion starts to come from caring for others rather than self

god and when it shifts off of you that 90 day nine month mark-month mark, six-month mark, whatever it is, that's the ones that complete. If you just keep it on you, I want to be rich to be rich for me because I'm richy rich and I want to have the bling and I want to have the car. That's a hollow, hollow life. That's shallow and there's not a lot of energy in it. That's right. And it runs out. It runs out.

People don't make it. Selfish motivation, in other words, will get you started, but it won't keep you going. There's a switch that flips. It's not a switch. It's go over the hill, whatever it is. It's smooth or it's rough or whatever, but you go over, and all of a sudden there's a green valley, and it's all about others. It's a godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children.

I remember having the thought, I'm going to make so much money if my kids are screw-ups they can't go through it all. Huh. And that means the grandkids are going to have something. Yep. You know, and I didn't want to do that. I really didn't want them to be screw-ups, and I wasn't going to leave money if they were screw-ups.

That's dysfunctional. But I remember having the mathematical thought of, I mean, you really, I mean, you think about the Standard Oil, you know uh jp morgan those guys and they made so much money that four generations later they still can't go through it they can't burn through it they still can't go through it and it's ruined some of them some of them didn't make it you know and and i remember i remember they became trust fund babies but with a workout plan when i went from yeah i want to look great to- From vanity. I want to be able to roll around on the floor with my grandkids.

And then suddenly you get up every morning, right? From vanity to, I want the pants to fit. It's a legacy, yep. To, I am tired of being tired when I'm playing with my three-year-old. To, my son got quarantined and had to do a couple of uh weeks at home on a zoom class and dave we don't talk about it it's not something that we beat in it's just something you get up every day and we're going to be stewards of our body we're going to take care of ourselves and he said i've got to go sprint dad and he walked out the door and took off running down

the driveway and i thought that's how legacy change happens. Yeah. Not by barking and yelling, but we're going to do it. We're going to do it. And then this Christmas, it's been, I think my sister's really going to love this gift. This is when it turned. It's not about, what am I going to get? What am I going to get? It's, hey, can we go to the store one more time and get something for mom? Right?

And it starts to shift. It's a maturity. And it's just a nickel and a dime, a nickel and a dime. It's maturity. And it's by degrees. And that's why I say it's not all of a sudden you're going along in Braveheart cold water mode, and then you just switch to Noble Grandpa. It doesn't happen in one fell thing.

No. But there is a movement in the spirit to where, and I think it is associated with hope. When you first start, you're not sure this is going to work. I'm just going. I've got to do something. Something's got to change. I've got to bust into this. But then when you knock off and you go, man, I paid off those first six've got to do something. Something's got to change. I've got to bust into this. But then when you knock off and you go, man, I paid off those first six debts and that snowball.

The snowball's actually rolling. And the concrete. Really, the evidence in front of me indicates that I should have hope. The steps get firmer, right? Yeah. And then you're like, dadgum. Now we can run, baby. We're doing this, man.

Game on. Game on, baby. And all of a sudden that hope kicks in. Hope deferred makes the heart sick. But when desire comes, it is the tree of life. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Derek's in Kansas City.

Hi, Derek. How are you? Mr. Ramsey, I'm doing well. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Oh, good. Hey, so I got a question. Growing up, I wasn't super financially responsible,

and I think that's how we are as kids. Try not to be. I've gotten a lot better over the years. Credit score got high. I ended up moving from San Diego to Kansas City about three years ago. I have some credit card debt that I turned into being irresponsible again probably, I don't know, five years ago. Ended up getting charged off, and I owe about $8,900. Well, I got a notification in the mail the other day about a court hearing on the 30th of this month,

obviously to get their money back, which is fair. I guess my question is, well, what I've done is I called them and tried to do a settlement for a percentage of the total amount. They agreed to it. I just agreed to a higher rate than I was comfortable paying at the time. And now I'm left with the decision of, do I pay that amount? Or I also have a truck that I only owe $8,200 on. If I pay that off... Do you have any truck that I only owe $8,200 on. If I pay that off...

Do you have any money? I do. So I have about $12,000 in savings. Okay. What can you get the credit card company to agree to settle for right now? $5,000. Okay. That's pretty high.

How old is the debt? Oh, gosh. I would say five years, four years. They paid about a nickel on the dollar for it. Okay. So on a $10,000 debt, they paid $500 for it. Okay. Roughly.

Would you recommend getting an attorney? I got a ton of emails. No, I just want you to beat on them a little harder and get them down to about $3,000. Okay. I had offered $35,000 after doing some research online, and it was like 60%. They said, no, that company will never go that low. Yes, they will.

I know. So what you've got to do is just keep messing with them and just go, well, I have $4,000. If you want to settle this today, we can settle it today. Now, here's a couple of rules. Number one, you can tell a credit card collector is lying if their mouth is moving. It's scum that you're dealing with. Sure.

Bottom feeders. And if you're a credit card collector out there and you don't like me saying that, you should get a different job to prove that you're not scum. Because nobody stays in that business that's not scummy. It is a nasty butt business they lie i am not kidding you we've dealt with them for 30 years major household names like american express bank of america city bank will lie to you it is unbelievable okay it's hard to believe and you think i'm being melodramatic i'm not i've done

this for a long time first time or two it happened to me i was shocked but it's just the way it is so get it in writing or it didn't happen okay and it can be an email that's fine an email from that organization and with the account number on it and it says this account is settled in full if you pay four thousand dollars by january 15th or whatever okay okay then you do not rule number one in writing or it didn't happen rule number two is they do not get electronic access to your checking account under any circumstances they will clean you out they'll take 8900 out of your account if you give them the account that's got 8900 in it and then try to get that back because you owe it you're not getting it back so you a prepaid debit card that is transacted one time and then closed

a wire is fine uh but i i wouldn't give them electronic access to a bank account under any circumstances, a traditional bank account, because they'll take your money out of there and you won't be able to pay your rent. Okay. In writing, no electronic access to your checking account. Got it? Yes, sir. And you ought to be able to get them down to four anyway. You already got them to five.

I'm really surprised they wouldn't take $3,500. I really am. Yeah, so I guess is that normal for, it's not at this agency anymore. I don't know if I'm allowed to say the company. They bounce it around all over the place. They've probably sold the debt for a nickel on the dollar, and the people collecting it are sitting in a boiler room. There's a whole room full of cubicles with people with headsets on dialing people like you.

Okay, yeah, that's fair. It's an attorney. I ended up calling them. No, they're not. They work for an attorney, and there's 72,000 of them in this one room. It's a boiler room. They have one attorney in there, and you're just a widget. This is not Matlock.

So do you think the $3,000 or $3,500, I should be good with that? Three to four. If you can settle this for three or four, and you've got the money, and you can get it out of your life, finally get it out of your life. But again, in writing, no electronic access to your checking account. Okay. You're dealing with a debt buyer. They bought a million dollars worth of debt for a nickel on the dollar and they're out there collecting it. And they finally found somebody that their phone number actually worked.

Sure. Or you called them. So now they got your phone number. Do not give them any information, by the way, on you, like where you work or anything else about you. Yeah, that's too late. So they had asked that. I let them know. Didn't know I should have called you sooner. Yeah, well, they're going to use that against you, too, because they're going to garnish you your dadgum wages if they take this judgment now.

Or they'll call you where you work. Yeah, they're going to use that against you, too, because they're going to garnish you your dadgum wages if they take this judgment now. Or they'll call where you work. Yeah, they're going to bug the crap out of you. They'll tell your admin or your boss. So settle this $3,000, $4,000, $5,000, somewhere in there. Get it settled. And I would just tell the guy, listen, I have money in my hand. And if you want credit for this account before Christmas, we can do the deal right now. You want to play?

Let's dance baby and just mess with him because he's not used to actually talking to people he's used to leaving voicemails all day long and he actually is talking to a person he doesn't he's about to wet himself he doesn't know how to handle this and you're dealing with a guy who's not been on the job even 90 days their turnover rate inside these collection companies like this is about 40 days most people make it a a month and 10 days and then they're gone to something else because it's a job it's the worst job in the world it sucks how would you like to call people all day long and mess with them oh god i mean you got to

have psychological disorder to do that as a career and so um anyway that's who you're dealing with is some kid in a cubicle 500 miles away with a headset on think of every movie you've ever seen you've got it in your head right that's the deal and just you know just mess with them and that it's not a lawyer there is a lawyer somewhere in the background but there's there's you're not talking to a lawyer you're not even talking to a paralegal you're not even talking anybody who could pass the first week of a paralegal test so not even close so just mess with them and push on through and you'll get there emory is with us in rome new york hi emory how are you hi sir thank you for taking my call sure how can we help so uh uh we're on baby step seven yay yeah we've done uh pretty pretty good actually we

were going to go to your cruise and uh then it got canceled so uh yeah i heard about that it was going to be my first cruise emory and such it is oh my god yeah we were going to do our our that free screen and screen and everything but hey so my question is, my husband and I are 10 years apart. He already retired from the military, but we both work still for the military as civilians. And we're having a little bit of a disagreement on when should we retire. I still have 10 years to work for the federal government. He's already eligible for retirement, and we don't know how to negotiate a date on how to retire.

Does somebody want to keep working, or does somebody want someone to stop working? That's a good question. I want to keep working. He wants to stop. Why can't he not stop and you keep working? What would be wrong with that? I don't know. I didn't feel like that was correct, you know, that I get to keep working and he doesn't.

Well, how old are you? get to keep working and he doesn't, you know. Well, how old are you? 47. How old is he? 57. Okay. So if you have enough money and you're in Baby Step 7 and he doesn't want to work and you want to, why is that not okay? Yeah, he can find...

I don't know, I guess... He can find a hobby. I mean, if you want to, I suggest at 57 that you probably got a few good years left doing something. Maybe you don't keep working there, but you probably ought to do something. Right. It's not good for you to just go fishing for 42 years. You ought to do something with your life, but that's just my opinion. So, you know, if you can afford it, I don't care if you work or not.

It's up to you, but I think there's great dignity in work. Amen. Our scripture of the day, 1 Peter 4.8, Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins. Merry Christmas! That wasn't part of the scripture, that was me. Hamilton Wright Mabee said, Blessed is the season which engages the whole world in a conspiracy of love. Ooh, that's good.

Blas is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Blas, how are you? I'm great, yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, so here's the deal um i'm currently engaged uh to my fiance we've been together for five years but she has three wonderful children one of which has a lot of special needs um the biggest issue with us getting married is that he's on medicaid and if we get married he loses that

so he loses it due to your household income being too high that's correct what do you make so i make 70 a year what does she make uh she's gonna stay at home okay so that's why the kid she has no income right now exactly Exactly. That's correct. Okay. Well, sorry, she does. She does. She's got child support, and she does get SSI for him. So her monthly is about $1,000. Yeah, but I mean, as far as the calculation for his SSI, she's allowed, if I remember, it's about $3,000 a month that she can make without canceling out his SSI.

And so by your household income going to $70, it cancels it out. He'll lose the SSI. And so by your household income going to 70, it cancels it out. He'll lose the SSI and the Medicaid. See, SSI and Medicaid are set up for not special needs. They're set up for welfare. Right, right. For people that are too broke to eat. But the problem is, is because

of his needs, he was born with a heart defect. So his bills get really, really, really high. And I wouldn't doubt that his last surgery probably broke the millions. Do you have health insurance through your work? I do, yes. Can you not add your family to it?

I could, but I'm not sure how that would affect a preexisting condition. It's Obamacare, dude. You can add them. Okay. Preexisting or not. You need to talk to your health insurance people and your HR benefits and make sure, but I think you can add them, your whole family, to your health insurance plan. You make $70,000 a year, and this family with three kids and this lady are your family,

and they're going to be taken care of by your health insurance plan and by your income and so they're getting off of welfare right right right okay that's what it means i mean i'm not being cold that's just what it means medicaid is for people who don't have an income it's welfare right right and there's not it's not evil it's not horrible it's where she was but're not going to not get married and live in the same house so we can keep her on welfare. Right, right. That's morally wrong.

So then by us getting married, I can put them on my insurance, and his medical condition should be covered in full? Should be. It should be, but double-check that. You don't have to take a radio, guys. Like you said, it's a million-dollar question. you don't take my advice on you check it out for yourself but it should be the pre-existing conditions can be added under obamacare now now say that it's not covered in full and we still wouldn't be able to cover the difference uh like if there's like a

copay or well you you cover the copay you can handle a copay yeah what about like the 70 80 split or stuff like that that's the copay okay okay let me tell you okay insurance has three numbers health insurance and learn about these three numbers when you talk to your hr group okay okay number number one you're familiar with is the deductible right and you pay a hundred percent until you meet the deductible you know that right right right number number two is the copay and it's typically 80 20 they pay 80 you pay 20 once you've hit your deductible the third number is the important one in this discussion that'll give you a lot of peace and that's called stop loss stop loss okay and that's your max out of pocket what is your maximum out of pocket and typically

it's going to be uh who do you work for what do you what kind of company just don't tell me who but what kind of company do you work for i'm'm a truck driver. Okay. For over the road or in town? Regional local. Okay. Is the company a trucking outfit? Or do you drive for somebody that's like a Walmart or something like that? Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Okay. So they probably got good insurance, which means your stop loss, your max out-of-pocket, is probably in the neighborhood of $10,000, maybe $20,000. Okay? And so if this kid goes in and has a million-dollar surgery, you're 80-20, you're deductible, everything added up. When it hits that stop loss, it stops, and they pay 100% after that. And so if it's a million dollars and you have a stop loss of ten thousand dollars you pay ten thousand dollars they pay

nine hundred ninety thousand dollars and that that's what that's the three numbers you need to understand and then the last thing you need to understand is i'm getting married to a lady who has a child with some special needs what uh you know what pre-existing conditions, how does that work with our policy here at work? And let HR tell you that and let them send you the brochures showing you in writing that this kid is going to be covered after three months or this kid is going to be covered after a year or this kid is going to be covered from day one. Somewhere in there is probably what you're going to find. I suspect you probably can solve this problem and that actually is my concern dave is i just hear him doing the math in his head

on this relationship and he's marrying somebody with special needs child he's in love with somebody saying i'm pledging myself to her. And the kid. For better or for worse. And those kids. And if at the end of the day, before he pulls the trigger and gets married, if he says, well, if that just gets too expensive then, fill in the blank, then he needs to get out and back out and walk away. Well, that's a possible, but I didn't hear that.

What I heard was I want to make sure I can do my job, and I don't want to set myself up where I can't take care of this kid. I said I'm going to take care of him, and then if it's a million dollars, I can't do it. That's exactly right. Okay. And I want to make sure I can do it. Okay. That's a much more noble approach than Nearest Watch. That's right.

That's okay. It could be either way. If it is dollars and cents, then walk. And this is the problem, though, with the Medicaid, SSI, the whole welfare system, is it encourages people to not be married. Or it disincentivizes people from, right. Yeah, I mean, same thing. The incentive is not to get married because it screws up everything. Or it's seen as a forever instead of a stopgap, right?

Yeah. Well, and if you don't have another way to cover a child that has a potential million-dollar operation, it is forever until you find a way to cover it. So you've got to take care of the babies. But I'm pretty sure that he can get this child insured. I might be wrong, but I don't think I am. And especially if he's working for a big regional or a big national company that he happens to be driving truck for.

And they probably have a sweet plan. That would be my guess. And even if it's a little bit expensive, do it anyway. Right. Do it anyway. Even if it costs you, you know, $300 more a month and that hurts a little bit, do it. That's good. That's good.

Because the family that is married and committed economically will out-prosper the family that is shacked up statistically every time. Economists call it the marriage benefit. It actually causes economic lift to be married because on average, married people make more than shacked-up people. Household income, on average, nationally. And it could be socioeconomic. It could be the, you know, what's the cause, what's the effect? You can argue that if you want to. But we do know, statistically, married people make more than shacked up people make on average and it's a lot

more throughout their life it's the marriage benefit that's talked about and so that's what i want for your family long term but in order to do that we have to solve the short-term potential issue and make sure that this child is cared for which is a noble thing absolutely it is very very good stuff. So I have never in 30 years of being on this air shamed someone for being in Medicaid, and that includes a nursing home for Medicaid. But I will tell you that when you have the opportunity to not be in it, it is your calling to not be in it. So when you have the opportunity to buy long-term care insurance so you don't have welfare nursing home,

which is the only way the government pays for it is Medicaid, then you should do that. You should do that. You should take care of yourself so somebody else doesn't have to take care of you. That's pretty basic personal responsibility stuff, and I've said that all along. So where those options are open. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes or head to DaveRamsey.com. Thanks for listening.